Let me enforce that while I have issue with the direction and writing of this series, I am not dismissing the hard work put into it. It's an incredibly ambitious project and making a book adaptation, let alone a TV series, is incredibly difficult, and many hours of labor were evidently put into this series. If you enjoy this series, good, I'm not telling you not to. Edit: I read an interview by the cinematographer about the choice for the visual presentation of the series. It was because this "style" is trending TV. How creative.

Never saw the original mini series or read the book, but frankly I thought the show and cinematography was amazing. I don’t know how you can find so many things to be negative about. I just don’t see what you mean “when did the standard fall so low”

@tmg7476

5 күн бұрын

Watch the original series.

"He makes me laugh." As so often with the show, ideological baggage gets in the way of the relationship necessary for the story to make sense. By way of contrast, in "Musashi," Eiji Yoshikawa describes the relationship between Ikeda Terumasa and the monk Takuan as 'friendly, almost brotherly.'

Wow, there really doesn't seem to be much middle-ground here: Either people love 2024 Shogun or they hate it. I love the original miniseries. I watched it when it originally aired on TV, then I watched the reruns whenever they came on, and when the DVDs came out, I watched it three more times. It made me read the book which, needless to say, I also loved. I've spent quite some time and effort defending the original miniseries to younger 2024 Shogun fans, but I also happen to like the new show despite its shortcomings. With all the intolerable crap Hollywood's been pouring into our troughs for ten years now, this is practically Godfather level quality, although had it come out in the 2000s, I might not have been as forgiving. Anyway, I really dug your "Shogun Review: The Original Masterpiece" video, and I respect your qualms with the new show, and I agree with a lot of them, most of all concerning how dirty Mariko's character been done. Then again, since we're living in the age of the girl boss with no personality, I actually expected much worse. Well, life's simple pleasures, right?

It's difficult to be objective about adaptations, especially if you already have a strong attachment to the original work and a previous adaptation.

Blah blah blah adaptation blah Great story; Great show

I'll say it for me: it's funny how people resist admitting the artistic mediocrity of this show. They wouldn't need to say it's horrible, because from a certain point of view it really isn't, everybody knows that, that's not the point anyway - it's would do you a lot of good, if you liked it, to read the book and watch the old adaptation (I thought people on the internet were already used to treating "not-so-good-as-the-book" and so as an axiom). Then I wouldn't have to explain it, bros: your eyes (trained, I hope, to appreciate beautiful and good things) would (will) understand the message. In the end... I wish people here in Brazil wouldn't just stick with the 2024 series and would also take an interest in the source material and the old series (both of which were popular here in the past, according to what I've heard from older folks).

@nont18411

Ай бұрын

Because they compared to the 💩 that are modern Hollywood. When everything else in horrible, a small bit of mediocrity will be considered as a masterpiece.

Listen, I've actually invested a lot of time into following your opinions on this show, because... your opinions stump me. I'm someone who grew up with the old show on TV and adored it. But I also really enjoyed most of the choices the new show made. This entire "old VS new" warfare is utterly puzzling to me, because I know from my own experience it's perfectly achievable to enjoy both versions of the show for what they are. After recently rewatching the 1980 version in anticipation for the premiere, then watching the new one, then watching literal hours of your commentary, I must say: many of your criticisms just don't land with me at all. A lot of your objections seem to come down to personal preference, or even simply hurt feelings, not actual flaws in storytelling. You are simultaneously chastising the show for being too unimaginative and too liberal with their choices - so which is it? Maybe it's the fact that I didn't read the novel, and only have the Jerry London adaptation to compare to, but I just do not get any of your bitterness about the reinterpretation of the story. Man... I just don't see what you see.

@SamaLlamaStudios

20 күн бұрын

If you’re focusing on comparing between the 80’s series and this, a lot of my points probably won’t land because I’m focusing this on how it adapts the novel, not how it compares to the 80’s series which in itself is a flawed adaptation of the book. Thanks for watching :)

@TheHalflingLad

20 күн бұрын

@@SamaLlamaStudios OK, as suspected, I'm missing something. Well, time to familiarize myself with the source, finally.

@tmg7476

5 күн бұрын

As SLS says over and over, he treasures the book and compares both to it. I agree with him but also compare the look and feel of the two series. OK, I'm 73 with glasses and could probably benefit from a hearing aid. But I find the new tv endeavors today too muddy in audio and too dark/foggy/cloudy in video. Last seasons of GoT, first season of HotD, TW, etc. And in Making of ... videos, the people responsible for those decisions say that they are deliberate, not just my eyesight and hearing. Having to rely on subtitles for English dialog reduces my enjoyment. Making it hard to see the elaborate sets and costumes reduces my enjoyment. It's like sitting in an uncomfortable chair or hot theater. Might be a good retelling of a story but I'm not just not enjoying it.

I have to disagree on pretty much all points. I think you have an unwavering nostalgia bias for the pros of the original vs the cons of the modern. The story here is extremely close to the source material INASMUCH as the original show is (I won't call it a 'remake' cause that's silly both are 'adaptations' of an existing source, a remake is a film remake of an original film... or a new novel of an original novel, or a new videogame of another videogame. A show that's more interested in adapting from a SOURCE can't be a 'remake' of another thing that's more interested in adapting from a source. This show is not a 'remake' of the original Shogun, they are shows interested in adapting the source material in their own way.) Both omit some things and chose to focus on others. Neither is entirely faithful to the source material....... but the new version shows FAR MORE of the story than the original does... where the original has to fall back and TELL us quite a lot past a certain point. In terms of TOTAL adaptation of the source material, the new version is much more faithful... but I'm not clowning on the original in this regard, the story the original chooses to tell is faithful to what it's showing... it's just only showing us half of it and TELLING us the other half, which is unfaithful to the source, a book that is not ONLY about John Blackthorne's journey across the Japans. and for lords sake man... you're giving the new series a LOT of guff for inauthentically adapting some things, vs the original show which literally doesn't adapt near HALF the entire story in it's desire to tell things SOLELY from Blackthorne's perspective. If this version is more interested in adapting the Japanese end of the story, than really... that's the end of the story that hasn't ever been adapted before... and in terms of adapting BOTH sides of the story this version is FAR superior to the older version. The older version has a major problem, if you haven't read the book (or watched THIS show) you won't know wtf is even happening half the time. The older version is SO good at its 'you're as confused as Blackthorne' storytelling that it takes near half the series to put anything at all together about what's happening and requires a narrator to TELL us, rather than SHOW us, what is happening when the major plot points that aren't directly about Blackthorne's character growth occur. The new version has its pitfalls........... but it's better than the original at telling the entire story, and for that it deserves more praise than it's getting while we're all looking back at the older version with nostalgia tinted goggles as greater than it was, because of how great it was for it's time. The original also has a lighting problem... in that EVERY shot has to be lit basically like a midsummers day because doing proper key lighting in ye olde days was a LOT tricker to do without modern film making tools... thus, while you have comparable, and oftentimes superior set and costume design in the original, it's ALWAYS shot under a specific light dynamic which becomes quite stale overtime once you've become used to what modern film making is capable of doing with lighting. I'm not gonna touch on acting... I think this is an incomparable practice when delineating olde shows and films vs new ones... the 'styes' of HOW we act today are so different from how actors did things then are so divergent that they are practically different art forms. I think the new show gives fantastic subtle performances, for instance I disagree that John and Mariko's relationship is worse simply because it is subtle. Moreover I think the new show exists, not to be a remake, but to potentially tell the REST of the 'Asian Saga' as well. We may well get 'Shogun' seasons for Gai'gin, Tai Pan and so on... which is something the original crew (criminally) never got the chance to do.

@SamaLlamaStudios

20 күн бұрын

I’ve read the book more times than I’ve watched the original series and I have to disagree on every front that this could even be considered a faithful adaptation. You say this version tells the more entire story, but it doesn’t, just like the flawed original miniseries. Perhaps because it shows us more of the Japanese side, people automatically assume thats the entire story. Its not. Its not just Blackthrone either, but the Portuguese plot that had been reduced to nothing. I already explained the “reimagined” issue in the video. I also don’t consider filler or nonsense that doesn’t add to the main narrative as pluses. Especially for a story as large as this one. I have no nostalgic bias for the original series, I have bias to the novel this series “adapts”. Though you spend a good bit of this comment focusing on comparing the original and new series. Again, that isn’t a purpose of this video, I explicitly stated I used stills from the original for parts that it covered more faithfully for the book or that this series all together omitted. The sad thing about this version was it was a chance to be something better, but studios were too scared to put the proper resources into this project because it could very well flop. Thankfully the Hollywood fatigue allowed for this series to thrive, and at least now I don’t have to feel isolated when I mention its name anymore. Thanks for watching :)

@lenajohnson6179

19 күн бұрын

@@SamaLlamaStudios It is VERY fair to note that the Portuguese plot is reduced, even in relation to the original series I think... they were a lot more willing to do portugese scenes in the original series I expect since it was scenes away from Blackthorne that did NOT require the narrator to tell us everything that was going on... I do agree that end of the plot was further reduced for the new version. I suppose I may have mixed this video up with your retrospective of the original series a little bit, in which case I appologize, sinceI know you like that show very much, and by my perspective having seen both of them (and recently, ackgnowledging I have not read the BOOK in many many MANY years) that they tell essentially the same story, and the primary difference between the two that most jarringly juts out to me is that we never REALLY get to know what's ACTUALLY HAPPENENING in the plot of the original series, unless you already know the plot, except when the narrator tells us (unless you already speak fluent Japanese which would be great, but obviously, most of us don't). In that sense I feel like many of the complaints you have are ones you give more leeway to the original series, when I really do think that a great deal of the new version is a vast improvement for any non-fluent Japanese speakers, in fully comprehending the backbone and intricacies of the plot... an element of the story I consider to be ESSENTIAL to fully enjoying it, and all of it shown TO us rather than told AT us. I too like the original series a lot, but as someone who already knew the backbone of the story, it was always interesting when I caught myself questioning if the show had simply cut something, only to recognize hints around the edges that it was still part of the story, we just BARELY see any of it cause Blackthorne never becomes clued in (such as the torture addicts relationship with the courtesan lady) I suppose I simply feel like, one is not actually BETTER than the other at adapting the book, but I see a lot more people heaping criticism at the new show and forgiving the old show its faults in a way I think is nostalgically unfair. Anyway, I DO appreciate the video, I enjoyed watching. I don't mean to come off sounding like I think your opinions on the series and the story are right or wrong. Thanks for taking the time to respond to me at all.

@SamaLlamaStudios

19 күн бұрын

@@lenajohnson6179 I respect any one who can intellectually argue and debate (some people can be so rude) , and I do agree with points you’ve made. I typically don’t enjoy making videos with such negative criticisms as these but I also value honesty above anything else. I want this to be a channel where I talk about films and media that I’m passionate about. For better or worse, I’m very passionate over this story. Thanks for being understanding :)

@zycietosztuka8754

17 күн бұрын

@@lenajohnson6179 attention seeker you are

you decided you were going to hate it before you watched it

@SamaLlamaStudios

7 күн бұрын

I hate the show? That’s odd, I haven’t talked about something I hate on this channel yet (nor do I really want, I don’t want that kinda negativity on here). Just because I wasn’t overly impressed or didn’t give simplistic praise doesn’t mean I hate the series. I just find it incredibly over hyped for a rather mediocre series. Criticism can still exist without “hate”. Thanks for watching :)

If I could 👍 forever on this vid, I would. #fli

I wish u did weekly episodes on this

@SamaLlamaStudios

Ай бұрын

I tried to 😂

@tmg7476

Ай бұрын

@@SamaLlamaStudios And some of us appreciated those.

Just some random thoughts from me. Loved the book and the old series, despite some hammy acting from Chamberlain. The new show did too much "fashionable" things that made it less. The distracting lens effects, the drab and cold colours, the time filler shots of focusing on Toranaga's face for 20 seconds at a time, cutting down Blackthorn's story and especially his agency so much. He's made to look like a real dunce and complaining all the time. IMO the casting was generally actually very good, apart from Mariko. Her constant scowl and bratty behavior pales in comparison to the graceful depiction of the old tv series. For me there was zero chemistry between Mariko and Blakthorn. I suspect, in their mission to make the show more about the Japanese characters and trying to be different from the old show they made many decisions that make it worse. I loved the backdrops, the craftsmen did a great job. My personal favorites were the actors portraying Yabushige and Fujiko. That lady had all the nuance and grace that Mariko didn't display. And although a continuously changing sides character, you almost cheered on Yabushige. Other two roles played superbly were Toda Hiromatsu and the Lady Ochiba. The presence she had when in the picture and the way she could change her expressions in just a few seconds was awesome. Personally I love listening to the Japanese and watch the subtitles. The voicing and melody of that language just makes it for me so much better. Ah forgot, the lighting is really good in 95% of the scenes, I don't know what happened on that scene out on the ship that was so overexposed. I rewatched some episodes with the colours turned down to 0 and some added contrast, and it looked very good in that. I suspect that the person responsible for the lighting has shot film and B&W before. Overall I'd give it a 7.5/10, it's pretty good, but could have been so much better. The only thing I can recommend to people is to read the book and watch the old series, if you want to have a really good time.

I agree with you and most of the comments. I only have one thing to add a missed opportunity. In the original series Ishido was played by a short fat man and the scene where Blackthorn played crazy and gets slapped by Ishido wasn't that "scary" to watch. But in this version Ishido felt more imposing, in the beginning of the series that is I have to add, and I almost held my breath in anticipation of what was going to happen when Blackthorn would try to strangle Ishido. Well as we all saw it didn't happen, but it should have.

I have seen some American audience (of course, it’s American audience) talked about the meaning of “I fed you shit!” Blackthorne said that because he wanted to tell Toranaga (and mainly the audience) that Britain, like the Portuguese, also took advantages from Japan in order to colonize them. Blackthorne revealed that he didn’t have any altruistic thought to help Japan and Japan was the victim in the whole thing from these belligerent imperial forces… Except that it wasn’t true. The British and Dutch only wanted Japan for a new trade route. They didn’t want to colonize Japan via religion like the Portuguese. Plus, Japan wasn’t actually “the victim” in this. The succession conflict erupted because Hideyoshi failed to colonize Korea. Even in the beginning of episode 2, Hideyoshi himself even told Ieyasu (Toranaga) that he regretted that they didn’t conquer Korea together. And if we really wanted to also consider the real life events, Japan would manage to colonize Okinawa in 1609, 9 years after the events of Shogun and Okinawa is still a part of Japan until these days. Japan is as imperialist as any western superpowers.

The only thing I disagree with you on is the bit about how Blackthorne and Mariko's romance should have been cut out entirely. I really don't agree, I think it's too important for both of their characters, their relationship is about bridging cultures, and Mariko is absolutely essential to Blackthorne learning Japanese and navigating his way around the political situation in Japan. While I do feel that the 1980 miniseries maybe leaned too hard on the romance and it could have been rolled back a bit, this 2024 version went way too far in the opposite direction. Those two characters have no chemistry at all in this series. If I hadn't read the book or seen the original show, I would have found their supposed romance utterly baffling, because they seemed almost to hate each other until the moments where they were quite awkwardly and forcibly depicted as loving each other. It made their whole dynamic very weird. But if you cut the romance out altogether, then Blackthorne is even more isolated and lost than he is in this version. God, Blackthorne and Mariko were just done so terribly in this version. So many characters were. I won't rant about that since you already did it so eloquently. But it's just so disappointing to me. This isn't Shogun at all. And a lot of people will say, well, just consider it a different show altogether. But the thing is, even if you do that, there's so much that just doesn't even make SENSE. Like Toranaga's plan hinging on Ochiba going completely against her own interests and switching to his side. And there's so much that's just done poorly regardless of the original story, like the awful gloomy color filters, rain and darkness in every. single. scene. Yeah Japan is a rainy country at certain times of the year but sunshine DOES exist there. The original series shows Japan as a bright and vibrant place. I hate how modern TV shows do this whole thing where characters set in history all have to wear drab clothes and settings have to be all drab and muddy and dark because "the past was bleak". One thing you didn't mention was the bit where Toranaga kept Blackthorne alive not because he's useful but because "he makes me laugh". Which is stupid for more than one reason. First of all Toranaga shows almost no humor at all in this version, unlike both the book and the 1980 series. Secondly Toranaga found Blackthorne ENORMOUSLY useful, as a tool he could use against the Portuguese and Ishido, and for the knowledge and information he provided, like for example about the things the Portuguese and Spanish were doing elsewhere in the world. But beyond that, Blackthorne SAVED TORANAGA'S LIFE. TWICE. And Toranaga says he only keeps Blackthorne around because he's FUNNY? As I was watching through this series, I initially kind of liked it but I became more and more sour about it as it went on. It's not completely awful, but it's not the masterpiece a lot of people are claiming it to be either. Not when compared to the original book and series, and not on its own merits separated from those either. It's just not that good. It does have some positive aspects, like they did give Ishido a lot more personality, and Asano's portrayal of Yabu really brought him to life (although the way he went a bit nuts later and talked about fleeing to England and begged not to be made to commit seppuku was ridiculous and completely un-Yabu). Too many characters were ruined, too much of the plot made no sense, and damn the endless rain and darkness and gloomy filters.

@SamaLlamaStudios

Ай бұрын

Absolutely stellar points here

@RRTNZ

Ай бұрын

Well said.

@nont18411

Ай бұрын

About the Toranaga part, I think Hiroyuki Sanada wanted to portray him as very detached and soulless like Tokugawa Ieyasu in real life. That’s why he only kept Blackthorne just for laughs and added so many filter scenes that portrayed Toranaga to be more evil than he actually is (like Nagakado and Hiromatsu’s deaths). However, Tokugawa Ieyasu in real life is much more dynamic and nuanced than this meanie evil Toranaga. He might committed a lot of war crimes but he wasn’t a wasteful person and his goal was much more altruistic than just “becoming a Shogun”. He also always had a plan for everything. He planned to get rid of the Portuguese using the help from William Adams (Blackthorne) unlike Toranaga, who had no plan what so ever.

Thanks for getting back to this, I really have enjoyed your reviews. I watch almost anything new with subtitles on. One sound guy in an interview said that they wanted sounds and dialogue to be more realistic. If it was whispered, it should be hard to hear. If a lot of outside noises, it should be hard to hear. Rubbish. I want to know what is being said so I just turn the subtitles on. The same for lighting. This trend to darkness was very evident (and highly complained about) in Game of Thrones. As the series progressed, the lighting got darker and darker. The making of videos and still photos showed us the details in the sets and costumes that we could not see in the dark scenes. The first season of House of the Dragons was the same (no facial expressions visible on the beach) and they actually lightened some scenes for the physical media release. Like the muddied sound, this is a terrible trend. I have no training, no experience in this area, but I wonder if increased use of CGI is encouraging this. CGI flaws are less obvious if dark or cloudy or foggy. Are they using dark and fog to cover CGI flaws? When I visited Japan in the early 80s what I saw resembled the original sunny Shogun vistas more than the new dark ones. I hate the gloomy or foggy scenes that are so popular today. So I put some blame on CGI. Am I right? When it comes to actors not reading the source material, in GoT some famous actors defended their ignorance saying that they were not hired to play the character in the book but instead the character in the script. I think Henry Cavill argued with Witcher producers because he knew the source material too well and resisted script changes. Again, it comes down to whether the producers are trying to faithfully follow the book. As you point out, the new Shogun removed the author's name from the title slide. Too many films and series today are 'improvements' on the very successful books. Another bad trend. I won't go into book vs 1980 vs 2024 except to say that I generally agree with you. The changes made weaken the story instead of improving it. Perhaps if they had tried just retelling this era with a brand new take and not tried to play on the book it would have been better. I do wonder about two more years. Perhaps a prequel? Will be interesting to see what they come up with with no book material to fall back on. I have not yet watched the new series and frankly it is pretty low on my list. I may never get there. The mechanics (video, sound, sets, costumes) put me off before any reading any reviews. Reviews (especially but not just yours) delinking the series to the book just put me off more. Like you, I love the book, I love his books. I bought the 1980 Shogun on DVD and will rewatch it before watching the new one. I generally do not like remakes or reboots, especially if the original was a success. Unless technology has drastically changed and thus the reason for the remake, I find the new copy to be inferior. And I do not like the new filming trends. Thanks again for spending the time to make these reviews. You put a lot of time, thought, and passion into these and it shows.

@SamaLlamaStudios

Ай бұрын

As a Witcher fan (of the books and games) I am definitely on Cavil’s side. Not only was he getting to play a dream role, but knows whats being done incorrectly. I think its very important for actors to have some knowledge of their source material. That doesn’t mean they need to watch the original adaptation and do the same exact thing. They should do their own thing, but don’t disrespect the character or the source material. This is something my actor friends generally all agree on. At the same time, Shimada hadnt read the book as it hadnt been translated to Japanese yet, but the screenplay was worked on with Clavell’s supervision so we can definitely put our faith into that more than…this.

I watched and enjoyed the old series but haven't read the book yet, the new series lacked the Japanese touch - it was rather Chinese in character, too gloomy too grotesque.

The new one was awful. They could have showcased Japanese history and culture. They didn't. It's like some people living in their basement with a Samurai sword tried to imagine a fictional society that would use it. Caveat: they must have western values that rewards individual achievement rather than bettering the collective.

- Blackthorne character and his dynamic with the Portuguese are near non-existent. - Blackthorne and Mariko didn’t have enough chemistry to make me believe that they love each other. - Ochiba folding to Toranaga in this version makes her very dumb. In every other version and the real history, she folded to Tokugawa Ieyasu because she was forced to. Ieyasu’s army was too big and powerful so she had to surrender for self-preservation of herself and her son (and then she slowly plotting a rebellion for a decade until her son comes of age). In this version, however, she folded to Toranaga willingly because “boohoo Ishido killed my buddy” albeit she knew that Toranaga killed her father and Ishido was the best person to champion her son. - Toranaga isn’t as smart as the show tried to tell us he is. He constantly made dumb decisions after dumb decisions and only survived through sheer plot armor. Why did he let his son kill the messengers? Why didn’t Osaka declare war right then? Why did he let his son attack his brother (and died failing)? Why did he force his best friend to commit seppuku? Why didn’t the other generals, aside from Yabu, betray Toranaga after Hiromatsu’s death? Why did Ochiba forget that he conspired with Akechi to kill her father and surrendered to him easily? And most importantly, why didn’t Toranaga have any contingency plan against the Portuguese?!!! All he cared about was becoming a Shogun, unlike in the book and in real life, that he always had a plan to get rid of these colonizers. - Buntaro and Yabushige ended up being the most likable bunches of this version (Buntaro, especially, by accident). - The camera work is as awful as Zack Snyder’s films and the environment is too damp and dark. Japan is such a colorful country. I can’t remember if there were any scene of Mount Fuji and sakura trees in this version. Mount Fuji is important to show that the city is in fact, Edo (or Tokyo) because they located next to each other. Even the Last Samurai tried to put Mount Fuji in the film by filming at Mount Taranaki in NZ that looks identical to Mount Fuji. - And the worst part of this version is the line “I fed you shit!” from Blackthorne, considering its implications compared to the actual situation that sparked the conflict in the story.

I hated the remake. It disrespected the source material and the real life character that Blackthorn was based on, reducing him to a clown. But people who actually understood the book would hate the total character assassination of Mariko. As someone who loved the book, I genuinely feel sorry for you having to write this review, it can't have been pleasant.

@SamaLlamaStudios

Ай бұрын

Yeah this review was definitely more challenging to write than my previous ones, but the passion was definitely there. The character assassination for Mariko was heartbreaking. Thanks for watching :)

omfg blah blah blah