If secession happens at all, I'd guess it would be more like some elements of Indian Partition, with millions of people having to relocate to more ideologically suited areas, rather than being 'Civil War 2 at one extreme' or 'US Brexit' at the other. Maybe not quite as violent in a rich, modern society, but probably being nominally ordered and largely peaceful with sporadic, decentralised violence from fanatics.

@S0RELOSER

3 жыл бұрын

That’s fair to say. But i dont see the liberals letting us go free without a fight.

@philiphales2109

3 жыл бұрын

The United States federal government demonstrated during the Civil War (1861-65) that it is unwilling to have any state secede from the Union. Furthermore, the United States federal government was willing to send ~320,000 soldiers to die to conquer the South, which was willing in turn to sacrifice ~325,000-350,000 men in its bid for independence. This is dangerous ground; the United States will not be willing to give up territory or resources. ALEA IACTA EST

@S0RELOSER

3 жыл бұрын

@@philiphales2109 the feds ... aka the leftists. Let’s at least call it what it is.

@akhalif68

3 жыл бұрын

If you study the partition of India & Pakistan...I suspect you will conclude it was managed badly by the technocrats & politicians meaning that many thousands of ppl suffered and died over many years...If the US ppl actually decided t do this in this decade Iam willing t make a bet the outcome will be very similar.

@akhalif68

3 жыл бұрын

@@philiphales2109 Yes - But were are living in totally different Social / Technological / Political Era...The events of the 19th or 20th century are not applicable I think...

AI is improving so fast, Lex almost appears human

@anthonydallarosa8314

3 жыл бұрын

🤪

@MOMO-mx4vr

3 жыл бұрын

Hahahahahhahah

The problem with secession is that the divide is not really between this state or that. If you look at voting results by county what you see is in general metropolitan areas vote Democrat and rural communities vote Republican. It's City vs Country.

@erwinnijs1

3 жыл бұрын

That's why we need extraterritorial governance. Instead of voting by majority vote, vote by subscription. That way everyone gets to be governed by the ones they choose, regardless of where they reside.

@michaeldunn8972

3 жыл бұрын

@@erwinnijs1 I'm in MA and the Democrat propaganda is all saturating even outside of Boston area. People here will always vote DEM because all the rich Dems live here and put alot of money into the state.

@erwinnijs1

3 жыл бұрын

@@michaeldunn8972 That's the beauty of extraterritorial governance: no states, only governments. Let them vote democrat, it won't affect you in a panarchy.

@erwinnijs1

3 жыл бұрын

@@cosuinofdeath If they want what I have, they are free to trade with me.

@praapje

3 жыл бұрын

@@erwinnijs1 That is what ultimately is going to happen. Due to socialistic policies the Dem areas will become poor and they will look at other regions to conquer. It is the tradition of totalitarian states to expand in order to sustain itself. So even with secession war is probably inevitable.

spy vs spy

@jeffpost5709

3 жыл бұрын

WHAT ME WORRY?

@logana1813

3 жыл бұрын

Underrated comment

@Mandoslicer

3 жыл бұрын

As long as we can agree to get Moose everything fine.

@jordansernik

3 жыл бұрын

Spy vs yps

"Minorities control the majority in any given country." Sounds like the culprit in every major WW.

@danielmartin7873

3 жыл бұрын

Sounds like literally country ever.

@geoz1466

3 жыл бұрын

*cough* druze

@johns1625

3 жыл бұрын

@@danielmartin7873 >literally country ever

@thepaleoconservativefortru5707

3 жыл бұрын

@@geoz1466 🤫

@wj3186

3 жыл бұрын

Sounds like civilization itself. If you don't want it, there are probably still some nice caves left to move into.

This is like watching fencing - great conversation - happy 2021 my dudes

Seeing someone step outside his comfort zone and talk about and learn about new stuff should be a great example to us all

Safety vs freedom-those are the two endpoints of the modern political spectrum.

@noneimportant5951

3 жыл бұрын

Safety vs Anarchy*

@erwinnijs1

3 жыл бұрын

And we all know what happens when we trade freedom for safety...

We need to split or it's going to get really bad!

Gary V's intellectual brother

Interesting choice of interview excerpt to extract, highlight and promote

Hey reporting back from mid January 2021, shit has indeed hit the fan

Lex's face when Mike said it's been 200 years

@ronniemaclaine5234

3 жыл бұрын

The funny thing is that makes us a mere toddler when it comes to a lot of other countries the fact that we Rose to be a world power so fast attest to the fact that the founding fathers had a really good idea

@_.Jon._

3 жыл бұрын

@@ronniemaclaine5234 We're not toddlers when it comes to the oldest constitutions still in use. We either have the oldest in the world or the second oldest, depending on if you count San Marino's, which is uncodified.

Geographically speaking how would a secession even work when ideologically we are split urban versus rural and not state versus state?

@davidsirmons

3 жыл бұрын

You're forgetting that not everyone in states during the civil war was in-line with that state's leaning. There were just as many county/county, city/city, neighborhood/neighborhood divisions then as we'd have now.

@fudomyoo9762

3 жыл бұрын

Look at county lines. You would essentially see middle America and rural America trying to push to the ocean and the cities suffering starvation and urban warfare.

Thanks for sharing the info LF

I want them to just sit down and talk every week. Such a fun banter.

Excellent clip Lex, thanks for posting, much appreciated. Love your awesome work and great channel bro. A+

Watching two brilliant minds bounce back and forth is a beautiful thing

@jimwhittaker4137

3 жыл бұрын

Except Mike is not an example of a brilliant mind but someone living in right wing fantasy land and doesn't deserve to sit across the table from someone so intellectualy curious

@BabyVistaLaHasta

3 жыл бұрын

Quiet, noob

@maxadams9368

3 жыл бұрын

@@jimwhittaker4137 can't wait to see you on the podcast next week jim

@jimwhittaker4137

3 жыл бұрын

@@cosuinofdeathall of his talking points land on the far right side of the political spectrum. One example is secession is not something called for by anyone but right wingers. There are a variety of other examples in this interview of opinions only pushed by right wingers but I don't feel like writing a paragraph as it's not that important to me.

@jimwhittaker4137

3 жыл бұрын

@@maxadams9368 I never implied I deserved to be on nor would I have an interest to but having Mike on would probably be the equivalent of having on your typical twitter Trumptard. Let's just see how many of the many predictions he's made end up coming true to measure him as a political commentator. Not one of them will but the fringe will still regard him as a credible political commentator.

The vast majority of Americans are moderate left or right. His whole idea of secession is based on the thoughts and opinions of the small and vocal political extremes. Hard to take a guy like this seriously

@gps9715

3 жыл бұрын

He's full of it, and likes the sound of his voice. That's all there is to Malice.

@KortovElphame

3 жыл бұрын

Moderate left? Really? What USA you looking at?

@Will_JJHP

3 жыл бұрын

@@KortovElphame there's such a thing as center right and center left. Obviously I wasn't referring to you

@mn_ice

3 жыл бұрын

We are looking at possibly having Kamala as president, and she has a farther left voting record than Bernie Sanders. A big federal government goes against all of our founding principles and destroys our freedoms. If states maintain their sovereignty or we at least hold onto a balance of power with a Republican majority in the senate, there would be far less talk of secession.

I want to see Michael Malice eat spaghetti in that suit!

@gmsllc

3 жыл бұрын

Send him money he will do it.

@megaloschemos9113

3 жыл бұрын

The thought of that gives me anxiety

Get em magic mike.

It needs to happen. The union can either end with mass violence or we can plan it and do it peacefully. The basic understanding of reality has become two different things for the right and centrists/left in this country. There is no survival of the union when the country has become that extreme in its divisions.

@johnwinchester6934

3 жыл бұрын

100%

Anyone where after the protests on Capital hill?

Michael, do you really think that Twitter won't cancel Trump's account on Jan 20?

@3within1

3 жыл бұрын

That’s exactly what I was thinking.

@jimluebke3869

3 жыл бұрын

@@immaculatesquid Note the timestamp on my original comment... it's been a long week.

Succession is what i want

Much love Lex & Mike...great talk. And Mike see you again on the way to Costco, lol..😊

Your clips come up super late in my feed for some reason

This is the entire point of having a separation between federal and state governments and why we should push for a small federal government, what’s right right for Oregon isn’t necessarily what’s right for Texas and they should be able to do their own thing

There's no unclaimed land left for the divorce. Someone has to give up part of their country for the other half to secede to.

@nickolaibuck9301

3 жыл бұрын

@@immaculatesquid uninhabited does not mean unclaimed

*_The Matrix Deciphered_* (that _everyone_ needs to read/listen to) talks about California succession.

Also, secession does not have to be territorial.

@jordansernik

3 жыл бұрын

How can it not?

@suzukisixk7

3 жыл бұрын

obviously it has to be. you cant have neighbors with different laws

@smorrow

3 жыл бұрын

@@suzukisixk7 But that doesn't imply you need top-down law.

Social media will undoubtedly only continue to splinter ever-increasing groups of micro-ideologies into smaller and smaller subsets.

I 1st heard of this about a year ago when Michael was on Joe Rogan. Sounded like a ludacris idea and Rogan laughed hysterically at the mention of it. One year later....

This was fantastic.

Love you two!

We need a secession

These two gentlemen play so well off each other.

A successful secession assumes the both sides let the other leave. Most liberty minded people think that socialism is fine as long as everybody is free to leave it whenever they want to, but most socialists think that everybody has to participate whether they want to or not.

@itheuserfirst3186

3 жыл бұрын

Or you could...get this, vote them out. People who like "socialist" progrms can only obtain them if they have enough representation. If you don't like that the voting public wants those things, then you either vote in larger numbers, or you find somewhere else to live. It's called democracy.

@hass556

3 жыл бұрын

@Brandon May electoral college literally gives smaller states an advantage. The senate literally gives smaller states an advantage

@chrisradicone4832

3 жыл бұрын

@Brandon May is Democracy facade? Like...mob rule or something?

@Cabbage22927

2 жыл бұрын

@@hass556 2 or 3 cities decide elections for entire states. The house allows more populous states steamroll over smaller states. Smaller states deserve equal representation in the senate as bigger states. Otherwise we'd be the costal states of america, not the united states.

@hass556

2 жыл бұрын

@@Cabbage22927 so in other words you want minority rule? It’s either one or the other. Majority rule is more fair.

Sucession? We are in an abusive relationship. Abusers never EVER let you walk away. The only way out is to fight.

@Elwood128

3 жыл бұрын

A secession without arms is a secession without legs.

Because historical experience certainly doesn’t give us any reason to be “risk averse” about total political upheaval

Lex you are brilliant

Very interesting.

How much of what happens over the next couple of years depends on what happens in the Georgia run-off on Tuesday?

"there is absolutely no reason to be governed by someone you disapprove of ... we take this as a hypothesis" (it is not a hypothesis, it is a stated assumption) "because we are trained in it since kindergarten." -- this is rhetorical sleight of hand, stated in an attempt to belittle the social contract within representative democracy rather than directly addressing the philosophical underpinnings of our modern system of government. I really enjoy Lex as an interviewer, often, because he gives his guests the space to create complex arguments. Part of that is Lex's discretion in NOT challenging every link in the chain of an argument. However, as an academic, he must know how flimsy some of the arguments made here are. Libertarian arguments boil down to "I think tribal warlordism would be fine for me and I don't wanna think about how hard/complex society is!" I don't think the governance of our society is optimal but this guy is half-baked.

@johns1625

3 жыл бұрын

If you think libertarianism has anything at all to do with tribal warlordism then you don't know what that word even means. That's like saying all vegans want is to open their own pork slaughter houses.

@erwinnijs1

3 жыл бұрын

The social contract does not exist. It is in itself a rhetorical sleight of hand.

@kingofgimp

3 жыл бұрын

@@johns1625 When in history have groups of humans allowed a neighboring power vacuum to exist?

@kingofgimp

3 жыл бұрын

@@erwinnijs1 It is indeed, yet you and your lifestyle are (partially) a product of it.

@erwinnijs1

3 жыл бұрын

@@kingofgimp What you call a social contract, I call social duress. It has indeed shaped my life and my lifestyle, but not in a beneficial way!

Lex is under the mistaken idea that one of the two sides of the division is willing to listen to constructive arguments.

@queenterraofarchrist344

2 жыл бұрын

I don't want to hear thier "arguments"

8:45 - Every state *didn't* succeed solely because of slavery...half the states that ended up joining the confederacy wanted to stay neutral, but Lincoln blockaded all trade below the Union, and thus they were forced.

@robertheadley3483

3 жыл бұрын

Also the notion that simply "buying back" the slaves from owners in return for secession would have ended slavery and prevented the war is laughable at best.

I'll dare to translate what Lex was trying to say in the end: the solution can't be worse than the problem, as in the succession might solve the political divide, but stop much of the progress that is being made. This is always the difficulty with such drastic measures and why it's always better to try to reconcile and find common ground vs. complete separation. I know a gay couple who both hate Donald Trump and have an American Flag proudly hanging on their house. The vast majority of people are too complex to separate into the two halves of the political divide.

@altvibr

3 жыл бұрын

Only the journalists hate America, that's their narrative. Antifa and even "far-right" groups make up less than %1 of the population.

@MicahMicahel

3 жыл бұрын

every time China brainwashes enough people we give that state to them and call it succession?

@ejmoreno270

3 жыл бұрын

Isn’t this exactly why two countries would be better than one? If people are too complex to be split across a single political dimension, then how is it preferable to be split across zero? Succession wouldn’t solve all problems, but it would be substantially better than what we currently have.

@loftyparadox2540

3 жыл бұрын

@@ejmoreno270 I understand you are saying this from the perspective of things going ideally. Sure, Ideally it would be great to have two countries that are a lot more unified in culture. The problem I foresee is that going from where we are to those two countries will be chaotic. I know Michael is advocating for a peaceful succession, but that isn't realistic. Did you know the Russian Revolution also originally was attempting to change the government peacefully? Then the Bolsheviks took over and ran things into a bloody mess. That's the issue with these sort of grand ideas. They always sound nice in a theory, but reality isn't in a vacuum. Because we are so divided (and not just down the middle - there are many factions), it is dangerous to attempt a succession right now. In such a process there are too many vulnerabilities where extremists could easily take over by brute force and then we're just reliving a violent history.

@ejmoreno270

3 жыл бұрын

@@loftyparadox2540 The question I would ask then is if you realistically see discourses becoming better as we go forward from this point. Because we could sit and wait, but if we are just waiting for this problem to become worse, then I would argue it would be better to get off now before doing so becomes even more costly and more likely of escalating violence. I doubt the dissolution of the United States would look like how it did in the 1860's with only two sides. More likely is that there would be a mosaic of factions across the nation as regions balkanize. I would also add that non-violent schism is possible with decentralized technologies for currency, communication, and manufacturing. A dedicated group of people can choose to use a currency like bitcoin and still not be shut out of the global financial market; which would be the case if they were forced to still use the U.S. dollar with outsiders. Ditto for lines of communication and manufacturing.

The problem is that the succession as described would not even be geographical - for example my neighbor on the left is pro mask and my neighbor on the right is anti mask and they both live in different countries as a result of succession? Come on now.

I'd like to see more States made than secession. Here in Oregon the idea has had support for a long time, as well as in Washington and California. The cultures between West and Eastern Oregon is incredible, yet the overwhelming legislative power is focused in two to three counties: Multnomah (Portland), Washington (Hillsboro/Beaverton huge tech area), and Lane (Eugene, major college hub). A better solution would be to create States such that disenfranchised counties and populations can have proper representation and govern themselves accordingly.

@AustinTheTerrible

3 жыл бұрын

To have adjustment to county lines would be genius. However we would be the ones of procession, believing and carrying on the tradition of the constitution and national values.

@ALYoungFuture13

3 жыл бұрын

ef Texas leaves or California Leaves the union, then the treaty of Guadeloupe Hidalgo 1848 between Mexico & United States would be compromised. It gave the United States the Rio Grande as a boundary for Texas, and gave the U.S. ownership of California and a large area comprising roughly half of New Mexico, most of Arizona, Nevada, and Utah, and parts of Wyoming and Colorado.

Malice looks like lex when lex gets older haha

In a secession, the issue would be the division and disagreements on the vision of the new state.

@erwinnijs1

3 жыл бұрын

Yep, secession does not change anything fundamental about the political system. The struggle for the monopoly on power over a territory remains.

@erwinnijs1

3 жыл бұрын

@@immaculatesquid Why argue with your neighbor? Do you argue with your neighbor about what religion to follow in your neighborhood or your county? Or do you allow all religions, so long as they don't infringe on other peoples lives?

@erwinnijs1

3 жыл бұрын

@@immaculatesquid So you basically want secession up to street or neighborhood level? Why not immediately up to the individual level then?

Did they just have a "moment"?

Each side would have to offer land for relocation. The extremes are too enmeshed in certain cities to be untangled without incentives to peacefully draw the disparate citizens apart. Not hard to foresee, "I ain't leavin', you leave." 15:52

@erwinnijs1

3 жыл бұрын

That's exactly why we need to let go of territorialism. Governments shouldn't govern territories. They should govern people.

The points made in here are pretty common sense but one thing thats lost would be the ability for American to contend on the world stage. What the argument is forgets is that technology has brought us into a global era. The reason the articles of Confederation failed was its inability to deal with organizing and repelling foreign threats. This year in 2020 we saw what happend when states fended for themselves. The articles are way too weak to sustain a global power. This became evident immediately after the revolutionary war. "Ultimately, the Articles of Confederation failed because they were crafted to keep the national government as weak as possible: There was no power to enforce laws. No judicial branch or national courts. Amendments needed to have a unanimous vote."

This is the result of a big federal government. Stronger state powers would most likely alleviate a lot of these issues.

@mn_ice

3 жыл бұрын

Even keeping the balance of power with a Republican majority in the senate would go a long way.

I can't watch JRE anymore. Spotify's VPN detection is too strong. This is all I get to watch and listen these days.

I feel like this guy makes the same mistake I think ayn rand makes; assuming that our way of living is the baseline. Its not, obviously, but thinking so leads them to strange and overly optimistic conclusions.

@kingofgimp

3 жыл бұрын

"what could go wrong for me as an individual in a tribal warlord state?" is one of their assumptions. As you say, the baseline is much, much worse than what they seem to assume.

@erwinnijs1

3 жыл бұрын

@@kingofgimp We don't live in tribes anymore. Why do people keep claiming we are still a tribal species? Please evolve out of it like the rest of us did a long time ago.

@dmur612

3 жыл бұрын

@CHEAP Sci-Fi I sincerely have no idea where or how you and Colin have drawn this conclusion. The actual TITLE of this clip is about secession, the SEPARATION and decentralization of those with (multiple) different social, political and economic values. Perhaps there is an implicit “baseline” truth claim being asserted that can also be found to some degree in Rands’ writings. BUT, it IS a true claim that CANNOT be refuted, it IS and HAS been inexorably exercised various times by virtually EVERY PERSON on the globe, voluntary association and cooperation... People don’t normally associate with others that don’t embody, espouse or effectuate similar goals, cultures and values which breeds a propensity for conflict, division, partisanship and vitriol. There is only ONE institution which serves to propagate and EXPLOIT conflict by way of attempting to universalize ONE “baseline” (which NOT ONLY does NOT exist, it has NEVER existed); government...

@dmur612

3 жыл бұрын

@@erwinnijs1 I agree with you completely... Unfortunately, so long as the of blaming others for our shortcomings and inequalities remain seductive to the human mind, it will remain profitable for the political class, pundits and hustlers to propagate it...

@erwinnijs1

3 жыл бұрын

@@cosuinofdeath I think you have more chance finding people still living in tribes in the Amazon or North Sentinel Island than anywhere in Africa, and even then they are more likely live a sedentary life in villages as opposed to a roaming life as hunter/gatherers.

Different in ideologically isn't bad when used in a correct way of sampling better methods but it is bad when it victimized the rest, hence boiling down the common ground!

Couldnt agree with Mike more here and find it astonishing that people are so stubbornly opposed to thw idea.

I think creating a West America and an East America would be a good idea in theory. Both sides would have to compete to prove why they run things better. If one side slacks, people will leave to the other side, again in theory. If a foreign nation invades, we have the masses of both sides. And personally, I’m someone who appreciates compromise. I like to have a civil discussion whenever I can. But honestly, this feels like a battle of two religions. One religion demands faith and freedom. The other believes in science and authority. And both sides repel the other. So how can this nation ever reach an agreement when the discrepancy is beyond a differing opinion, it’s a core philosophical way of existing.

@musicdamar583

3 жыл бұрын

When the side who use science as an argument literally makes up pseudo science for propaganda purposes... then you can't call it science anymore. You can't compromise... you are either one nation under God, or divided a kingdom cannot stand.

@Noc4ball

3 жыл бұрын

Terrible idea. Besides, this is the United States. There are Democrat and Republican enclaves in each other's region. Dividing the country could turn a civil discussion into a civil war. And, in this divided country, will we have one president or two? Doesn't work.

@ChelseaMyReligion

3 жыл бұрын

I would't go as far as creating two separate nations but maybe something like what the roman empire did under Constantine, creating two admistrative parts of the empire which had numerous differences, even cultural. The Western part was in terminal decline and fell but it meant the Eastern roman empire (sometimes known as the byzantine empire) wasn't dragged down with it and lasted (sometimes even flourished) for many hundreds more years.

@loftyparadox2540

3 жыл бұрын

The complication is that there are many people on the 'faith and freedom' side that also love science and on the 'science' side that love 'freedom.' So really the rub is authoritarians and that is more difficult to separate into 'east' and 'west' because in reality, most large cities in the US are more authoritarian.

@TheDeadlyDan

3 жыл бұрын

And you've bought into the myth that there's "multiple" Americas, when in reality there is absolutely no difference between any two you choose at random. Belief isn't a difference. Belief is accepting something as "true" without evidence to support that idea. It should never be a destination, but only the first step on a road. When you live your life around beliefs, all you're doing is whistling into the darkness. Start talking about what you know or what you've done instead of what you believe and you'll have more credebility.

Think about what it would take for an actual secession to even be started let alone being successful. I feel like people will just fall in line and go with the flow. Covid basically convinced me of this.

@edgeorge5889

3 жыл бұрын

Sad but true

@ALYoungFuture13

3 жыл бұрын

California and Texas been talking about secession for years

Secession is the only way . Unfortunately that can only be achieved by civil war as their is no longer a dialogue between the 2 sides.

If we splinter, the splinters are just going to war with each other. We hate each other that much and secession will only push that further.

@bow_wow_wow

3 жыл бұрын

It's also going to be the end of any sense of security we might have from the rest of the world.

Great suit

I like the point about risk seekers vs risk-averse. I'm looking for risk. No risk, no fun. No risk, no money.

@mn_ice

3 жыл бұрын

I doubt there are many like you who seek risk for risk’s sake, but many are willing to take risk to fight for our freedom.

@PosiP

3 жыл бұрын

@@mn_ice what about other business owners, pilots, skiers, adventure type people. They are all risk-takers that shouldn't be held back from risk avoiders.

@smorrow

3 жыл бұрын

I don't think that's the actual dividing line on masks though. I think presumption in favour of liberty is.

3:20 this is interesting to think about tbh it's hard to imagine that conservatives are pro risk considering the implications of being a conservative, vs a "progressive" being risk averse.

big Lex

The irreconcilable difference is Authoritarianism vs. Personal Freedom.

The culture war is stronger than you think mike is right This thing is about to get bloody fast

The argument that succession can occur peacefully seems remote. The analogies to Brexit and even the US civil war are completely imperfect. Geography played a big part. Our country looks very “purple” down at the even the county level. Exactly upon what lines could peaceful succession work? Please enlighten me, because I don’t see how. I think we must all get more involved in the political processes at the local and state levels to address our differences.

While I agree with the premise of the argument for secession, we must not forget our National security. Two independent countries would be weaker (financially, militarily etc...), and such a scenario would open us up to exploitation by our competitors/enemies (whereby one is played against the other). It is easy enough to envision a reality where the new Conservative region of the ex-U.S. is partial towards Russia, while the Liberals fall in with the Chinese. What might the geopolitical ramifications be in such a case, and this is but one of many possibilities...

@that44rdv4rk

3 жыл бұрын

two? it'd be more like twenty, or even two hundred.

@MicahMicahel

3 жыл бұрын

give away land whenever China brainwashes citizens! That's a dangerous precedent! When they brainwash enough people in Texas it's time to give the land to China?

remember what happened to the last guys who tried?

@bobvylan7215

3 жыл бұрын

As much bad that came from the Civil War, both sides got what they wanted. Once you leave the narrative driven view out, the South fought for state rights over a centralized rule. The South fighting in the Civil War allowed Colorado to legalize weed. We kind of miss the South's advancement of actual freedom over DCs version of it when we discuss winners.

@jutsu1

3 жыл бұрын

It can be peaceful.

@sathlasdalaraynidridlendar6875

3 жыл бұрын

society is different now. plus, peaceful secessions have happened before.

@ryeguy7941

3 жыл бұрын

@@sathlasdalaraynidridlendar6875 that and technology has changed so much in regards to warfare, gone are the days where battle were fought in open field, guerilla warfare can cause much damage to a standard army.

@slambrew3849

3 жыл бұрын

@@bobvylan7215 this is one of the most brain dead takes I’ve ever seen.

“The right of a State to secede from a Union in which its interests are gravely imperiled is one that we believe in implicitly-it was not definitively stated in the Constitution but no one can read the record of the debates in the Convention that framed that document, and fail to see that the great body of delegates recognized it. “When the Constitution was adopted by the States one or more [of] them expressly reserved this right and there can be no question that if it belonged to one it belonged equally to every member of the Federation. The question has ceased to be any more than Academic-it has been settled by the sword and it is scarcely possible that it can ever again be reopened.” -Col. Charles H Olmstead, 1st GA Vols, CSA The question of secession is being raised again. The United States federal government demonstrated during the Civil War (1861-65) that it is unwilling to let any states leave the Union. During the Civil War (1861-61) approximately ~2.5% of the population was KIA. This figure was only combatants. Translate that 2.5% of the population onto today’s population, and one arrives at ~6.5-7 million KIA. This number does not take into account the untold number of civilian non-combatants who would die in such a conflict. This country is like a runaway train headed towards a bridge-out over a chasm, ie Civil War, and revolution. There does not appear to be a way to hit the brakes, let alone turn this thing around. “If there is to be trouble, let it be in my day, that my children will have peace; and this single reflection, well applied, is sufficient to awaken every man to duty.” -Thomas Paine ALEA IACTA EST

Lex’s podcast is slowly but surely replacing JRE for me these days.

@theonlyguiltymaninshawshan7909

3 жыл бұрын

I just discovered this podcast... it’s very good. I’ve watched a lot of Joe and enjoyed it immensely, but it’s getting a bit stale for me.

@firstname1369

3 жыл бұрын

Joe is not an intellectual and is vulnerable to being persuaded into believing almost anything, even if it is wrong. For example, he’s very good friends with people like Eddie Bravo and Alex Jones, which ends up skewing his perspective on certain things. He then repeats Alex Jones and Eddie Bravo’s opinions as facts on his talk shows. That’s what made me move away from JRE

11:01 well that didn't age well

This split is really between people who’s politics rest atop a foundation of post-modernism and those who believe, still, in Modernity. all other differences can be reconciled if we, as a society, can agree to the system of knowledge production and/or conflict management we use to govern. However, if we cannot agree there - we have no society. Which by the way is the express goal of the early, mid, and current activist post-modernists.

If you or your family or your town's people or the population of your state wants to leave the United States, go ahead. You have the right to do that. But the Founders designed the United States as a perpetual union, so everyone in South Carolina can leave, but South Carolina physically will always be a part of the United States. You cannot emigrate and take the sovereign territory of the United States of America with you. That's why becoming a state is such a big deal; the people of that region sign a contract with the US Government bounding their territory forever to The US Constitution. The Founders and Lincoln correctly realized that if states can leave anytime they lose an election that is particularly upsetting, then constant revolution is inevitable and democracy is destroyed. If secession is legal The United States ceases to exist.

@BrettCagwin49ers

3 жыл бұрын

@@arkology_city The Declaration of Independence was an illegal document at the time it was written under British law. If The British had won the war, they would have had every justification under the law in hanging the ringleaders of the rebellion for treason. But as it happened the British lost and recognized this new country called America as a sovereign nation. Secession is a part of democracy? So If there's 7 people in a classroom taking a class and every hour we have an election to decide what activity to do and every hour a different person wins the election and the loser leaves the classroom because they're sore losers. By the end of the day you don't have a class anymore, do you? The preamble to the US Constitution says it is written in order to form "a more perfect union". Perpetuity.

@BrettCagwin49ers

3 жыл бұрын

@@arkology_city "This is meaningless. It is the document which CREATED the United States, it remains just as valid today. When law becomes a tool of subjugation, it no longer is law, but tyranny.|" No, the document that created the United States in its current form is the US Constitution. The Constitution gives the President the power to suspend jailing people with a warrant by the way in times of rebellion. How is secession legal again? "Correct. Why is this a problem? Maybe the teacher needs to do better" I am very glad we had the Lincoln's, Grant's and Sherman's around at the time. Your alternative "who cares, let 'em go this American experiment shit is stupid." Not my cup of tea.

@BrettCagwin49ers

3 жыл бұрын

@@arkology_city Of course secession is rebellion. It is a rejection of the authority of the US government over territory the government protects. Your comparison to divorce and killing your wife is poor but we'll use it. No, you would not be allowed to kill your wife if she divorced you. On the other hand under the US Constitution she can't take the land you bought with her if she wants this "divorce". Like I said if you want to leave with you and your 47 cousins you can. But the land sworn to the United States is part of it for all-time The United States exists.

I like to watch Lex podcasts at 1.25 speed

@MrCarloss510

3 жыл бұрын

1.5x

@clinteastcoast

3 жыл бұрын

@@MrCarloss510 Lol, works great for Lex but the guest sounds like they are manic.

Lex says he hopes secession doesn't happen because he's a 'romantic' but as I see it, the pragmatic problems of secession are at least as important. Britain was always its own country despite joining the EU, and it was in it for less than 50 years. Czechoslovakia was artificially created after WWI, and comprised two preexisting geographic areas with two peoples - Czechs and Slovaks - who continued to live in their separate respective lands (Czechia and Slovakia). Thus when Czechoslovakia broke up in 1992 it was a relatively straightforward and painless affair. Unfortunately I agree that America will probably eventually break down into smaller units. But if it happens it will be nothing like the breakup of Czechoslovakia. It will be like the partitioning of India but probably a lot worse. You might argue that states already have borders and could just secede on their own, but what about the people in those states who don't want to live under the new government, i.e. progressives in Texas or conservatives in California? The only way to stop an endless cycle of secession would be to require a certain uniformity of thought among citizens of these newly formed countries, akin to 'cuius regio, eius religio' of the Peace of Westphalia. The Greeks wrote that democracy tends to end in tyranny. The same can be said of anarchy.

I mean, in my fathers generation we were having national crisis and credible threats by US governors of succession over desegregation and the 101st Airborne Division was needed to insure black students could go to school. I actually think the modern US political climate is quite tame in comparison.

Malice out to check with Dawson on his civil war history.

I like Malice but he’s way off on his thoughts related to this topic. The problem is, when the break up happens you’re going to end up with a ton of people that will leave their states because they’ll fall apart. So the breakup ends up bringing them back to our land without actually solving the problems that exist. If you want a real world example, take a look at what it going on with NY and CA right now. People are leaving in mass but the people leaving are still just as ignorant as they were originally. They just move because it is cheaper and more open somewhere else. But they still believe the same stupid shit without acknowledging those beliefs caused their problems in their original states.

He has come so far since his CashCab days!

US: *splits* China: It's free real estate.

I wonder what Texans and Californians have in commun.

@kensington1199

2 жыл бұрын

Not a damn thing

Texas could easily afford it.

@hjkio7029

3 жыл бұрын

Texas will be buried if they try to get out of USA.

@Noc4ball

3 жыл бұрын

@@hjkio7029 Any state would be foolish to separate from the U.S. Our Government would treat the separating state like a foreign country if said state ever needed economic support due to a disaster, etc.

@MicahMicahel

3 жыл бұрын

and they will be surrounded by China then Every time China brainwashes enough people we give that state to them and call it succession?

@ALYoungFuture13

3 жыл бұрын

ef Texas leaves or California Leaves the union, then the treaty of Guadeloupe Hidalgo 1848 between Mexico & United States would be compromised. It gave the United States the Rio Grande as a boundary for Texas, and gave the U.S. ownership of California and a large area comprising roughly half of New Mexico, most of Arizona, Nevada, and Utah, and parts of Wyoming and Colorado.

I think if you look at a map like this you can imo break up the country in 3 geographical compatible super regions. 1.) West America made up Northwest, West Coast, and Southwest. 2.) America made up of Mountain West, Great Plains, Heartland, Apoohzarka, Deep South, Gulf Coast, Southern Florida. 3.) North America made up of Great Lakes, Northeast, Mid Atlantic North and Mid Atlantic South. jeremyposadas.org/regions/

Have Malice and Ryan Dawson had a conversation yet?

8:20 if you wanted to get rid of slavery you could have bought them and.moved them to the north.... So basically just more slavery? And given that this isn't silly, he thinks the south who's economy was based on slavery, would just allow that?

No country has let states within itself leave without violence. If you can cite and example, I’m willing to learn.

@ALYoungFuture13

3 жыл бұрын

MCGIRT vs Oklahoma

lol i love that Lex is so honest that Michael finds it difficult to troll him hahaha Also, michael's comment about radicalizing people that believe in free speech and the constitution as written is disappointing. There's nothing "radical" about free speech.

What ever people think, what ever divide may happen, and however such and idea may unfold one thing would be more true than any other fortuitous speculation about it.......the divisions would NOT last long at ALL. The burn and scorch policies of the Anarchists, the guilty religious, or ANY other divider have insured this beyond a shadow of a doubt. The problem isn't law the problem is people and how they think it should be justified,exercised, and maintained. The US is a culture, even if all other cultures say its not. It is our gift as a citizen here not a curse and that is a fact. The formation of the country was not a "random" experiment. It's one based with lessons of the past. No matter how anyone spins or emotionally feels about it. If not, it would not exist. The easy path always ends up being the wrong path and leads to destruction, yet that path can always be changed till their is no longer any option. Staying the course is not brainwashing, it is sound advice, before you know it you will arrive at your destination in a timely fashion. It is so simple that a child actually understand/learn this, naturally, or they become lost. Couldn't over state this no brainer enough.

mike snappin

Something potentially nasty is brewing, and as many more are starting to talk about it and warn others it seems inertia and politicians will go too far and make the whole thing blow up.

Along with term limits for EVERY political and judicial(sheriffs etc included) seat in government, wouldnt the advent/allowance of a third or even a fourth and fifth political party be a better solution? Idk. Its just VERY clear to me that big money(Blue and Red) runs this government, NOT we the people.

Not difficult predictions, but never the less very accurate. Non violence is only possible if both parties involved in the divorce agree to non violence. This is why non violent secession is unlikely. There is too much at stake to allow assets to leave the union.

If we could have secession without a civil war I’d be all for it. We already live in two different countries.

@ryeguy7941

3 жыл бұрын

The left won't allow that.

@crackercarlbumpkin866

3 жыл бұрын

Racial _separation_ is optimal, Muhamed Ali was right in that interview long ago

@roberts1572

3 жыл бұрын

Great thank you for your much needed input, I’ll had another tally to my chart.

"You know what will eliminate the division? Secession." Excuse me Dr. Menace, secession and division might as well be synonyms.

@lutylives1852

3 жыл бұрын

Walking away from an abusive relationship is division?

@gubzs

3 жыл бұрын

@@lutylives1852 Yes, but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea, what's your point?

@lutylives1852

3 жыл бұрын

@@gubzs America is in division right now. How does breaking up the two warring parties cause more division?

@gubzs

3 жыл бұрын

@@lutylives1852 You aren't following the most basic point I made in the original comment. Busy and can't deal with this right now, figure it out.

@lutylives1852

3 жыл бұрын

@@gubzs So it's division in a basic and pointless sense of the word and we're arguing semantics. Great.

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