Excellent!!! Thanks so much for this nuanced, honest review of the Netflix series. I have been happily vegan/plant-based for over 10 years now, but even I, after all these years find myself "put off" by unsubstantiated claims made by so many of the well respected and well meaning leaders in the movement. I've had to come to my own conclusions, digging for valid info in the literature as a non-scientist. I am so glad to have come across you and Chris MacAskill at Plant Chompers!!! ❤

@michaelaneprasova

4 ай бұрын

Totally agree! I am also happily plant based (starting my 6th year) and I also find it hard to find reliable evidence-based sources of information. I first started with How not to Die and the Nutrition Facts, but I later realized this is not a un biased source🙈 I am also much more nuanced in my stance towards health benefits of plant-based eating and I am no longer pushing this lifestyle as the holy grail. Also share your appreciation of this channel and the Plant Chompers!❤

@virginiemazy7054

4 ай бұрын

Indeed I like this channel and plant choppers as well. But when the book of dr Greger came out you see that they did an interview : from the format you see that there are both (Chris and his wife) big fans. Thus this was not an objective evaluation like in the other videos. It’s my perception and it’s maybe not true but when I read the book « how not to age », it’s the same direction during 600 pages : plants are good and animal products are bad. If you are vegan it reinforces your beliefs. If you are not (my case), you have a feeling like : ok it’s surely better to eat plants (and I was impressed by the power of plants) but there must be some positive things somewhere about eating chicken or eggs or fish ? And as it’s never mentioned, you wonder if there is no cherry picking. I solved this issue by telling myself that the aim was to eat more plant based even if I still ate animal products. And I will try to replace the easy things eg bake cakes without eggs, make creamy dishes with cashews or silken tofu, learn to cook something with tofu and tempeh that my kids accept to eat ….

@owentuckett938

4 ай бұрын

My thoughts exactly! Best wishes.

@bonsummers2657

4 ай бұрын

Body integrity results are what matter.

@TheRst2001

4 ай бұрын

Plant chompers excellent

An informative and interesting review of the Netflix series. One of the things that really struck me when I watched it was the insistence that both the vegan and omnivorous diets were healthy, yet the vegan arm were provided with ultraprocessed food (fake sausages, cheese etc) which are known to be bad for health. This seems most bizarre.

@umbroraban1075

4 ай бұрын

Indeed, good remark. Most of the vegan alternatives that look like meat are UP foods that need to be avoided.

@amybethhurst

4 ай бұрын

How are they "known" to be bad for health? I'm not doubting you, I just haven't come across this. I love my vegan sausages, eat them 5-6 times a week. LDL is still dropping. Anecdotal, I know.

@thombaz

4 ай бұрын

@@amybethhurst You people just know NO LIMITS.

@lynnritchie231

4 ай бұрын

I didn't notice this, but it's a good point. I myself am clearing as much UPF as possible, out of my diet atm. Vegan four years and I started off eating lots of whole foods and lost 30lbs. As I have added processed foods, like sausages, burgers and cheese back into my diet, the weight has started going back up. So, it's back to the potatoes and veggies for me. 😅

@bertdog7639

3 ай бұрын

@@amybethhurst They are processed, that's how.

Not kidding, I believe I would have given up on finding fact based information on nutrition had I not come across your channel. Please never give up the fight....It's a difficult one and will never end. Just know, you make a difference to so many.

@karlhungus5554

4 ай бұрын

There's another KZread channel called "Plant Chompers" that I personally like. The author is a vegan, though one doesn't have to be a vegan to enjoy the content. I'm not a vegan and am only interested in facts and I think that channel (like this one) shows how a lot of health "experts" mislead people. Also, there's a podcast called "Sigma Nutrition" that I highly recommend. They don't have a KZread presence, but you can find them on various podcast-streaming platforms.

@mballer

4 ай бұрын

I wish channels would list their top ten other channels to watch. ​@@karlhungus5554

@myrhev

4 ай бұрын

@@karlhungus5554plant choppers is a nice guy but he is still heavily biased.

The advocates of the "EAT THIS WAY OR ELSE" type of diets too often "cherry-pick" data that supports their views while ignoring that which contradicts or is ambiguous. I appreciate your candor and objectivity. I trust science because of those qualities, it's the most reliable vehicle we have to unveil the truth.

@dan-qe1tb

4 ай бұрын

Dr. Gil is one of the few sane people on here, in my opinion. About half of the doctors on here, have no business giving advice about nutrition to anybody. It's like all they care about is getting more clicks. For example, who but a nutcase would suggest eating a carnivore diet is healthy? Also, people suggesting that diabetes is a condition that's mainly about eating too many carbs, and so the best treatment there is, is eating less of them, is offering overly simplistic advice. It's never a good idea to make important health decisions based on the advice of a stranger on KZread, and not seeing a medical specialist. Dr. Nicola Guess is a far better resource, to me. My protein target as an athlete, is high enough that it's hard for me to get enough without protein powders if I don't eat animal products. I have added more nuts and beans over the years and am currently at about 50/50.

@antonjoubert6980

4 ай бұрын

So true, the big issue these days is you have to check the study reports and protocols for yourself, money influence so much of what is called "science" today

@Cuse330Ci

2 ай бұрын

I think it's fair to say the producers of the series were hoping to portray plant-based diets in a very positive light and they did not hide the muscle loss in the vegan group. They deserve respect for that.

Great point about unreliable communication. Something I feel strongly about, as well.

@NutritionMadeSimple

4 ай бұрын

One of the biggest challenges over the years has been how to point out inaccuracies without antagonizing people so there's dialogue and collective improvement rather than "diet wars". A learning process...

@Caladcholg

4 ай бұрын

You two are going to have your hands full for a hot minute dealing with this Christopher Gardner gem 😉.

Great review and I agree 100% that selectively presenting evidence is sure to backfire and only harms the credibility of whatever case you're trying to make.

I have been one of the people who complained about you "attaking" the "good guys". I see now that you're right. Thanks for that.

@virginiemazy7054

4 ай бұрын

I think that it’s very nice of you of posting that comment. Because it’s rare for people to reflect on their past actions and saying that they could have done something else. 👍

@christianknudsen1919

4 ай бұрын

@@virginiemazy7054 thanks☺

@GermanTaffer

4 ай бұрын

​@@virginiemazy7054Agree!

Been there. done that. Vegan, vegetarian, Paleo, Keto, etc etc etc. In the end I am healthier on a diet of variety and eating food that is the least adulterated with chemicals and processing as possible. I culture and ferment, cook from scratch as much as I can, choose brands carefully by research and simply reading labels. I am 75 and “oddly” in spite of having Sjögren’s from 8 years of stressful caregiving for my Alzheimer’s mother, I am amazingly healthy physically and mentally. I also liberally use alternative medicine when the research supports it and don’t bow to pharmaceutical bullying by doctors but do extensive research to get to the real facts. So far, this approach is working well for me. Also mental and emotional health can’t be underestimated. So my motto is Live, Love, Laugh and always be kind.

I am vegan and I agree with everything that you said in your rant. I want to know the actual facts, and it's so hard these days with each side spouting their propaganda, and then having those narratives parroted online.. There are numerous legit reasons to go vegan, we don't need to be spreading misinformation or half truths.

@OrionL7

4 ай бұрын

As a vegan, I also agree. However it seems that propaganda works, so I say fight fire with fire if that's what it takes. I think unbiased high quality work will never make it to the mainstream, especially in a tv format. This hopefully brings exposure for others to do some digging and reflect on their choices.

@helderduarte213

4 ай бұрын

What is your opinion on veganism bringing more profit to companies?

@alexkwak7146

4 ай бұрын

What legit reasons?

@jlas958

4 ай бұрын

@@alexkwak7146 Climate friendliness for once (especially if you cut out lamb and beef), also if you have a tendency to eat junk food, people may tend to eat less because of limited choice :) That's among others for sure, just the ones that matter to me.

@triptripp1873

4 ай бұрын

​@@alexkwak7146if we are talking from a health based point of view, there's an amplitude of studies that show alot of benefits if one follows a diet that's whole food and plant based. From lowering cholesterol levels, to overall artery health, to better gut microbiome due to the diversity of veggies consumed etc. Ofc I can't mention everything, but this channel has a lot of videos that study different meta-analysies that have come out surrounding nutrition, so I'd say maybe take a look! Ofc, veganism isn't only about your dietary choices. Veganism is the effort to try to minimize animal suffering and exploitation. Therefore, it's to not pay for animal products in food or clothes or cosmetics, and to actively try to help animals in any way you practically can. It's all about the effort to live a life where animals suffer less because of your choices! So, if you want to get a better understanding of veganism, I would suggest the channel Earthling Ed, he's a very eloquent fellow that would explain such a consent better than I ever would! Hope this helps!

These are the secrets to living more than 116 years from spanish María Branyas, the oldest person in the world: 1. Eat without getting completely full. Eat small amounts of food. This habit consists of eating only what we need, without overdoing it. There is no deprivation of any food, but you do consume those that are less healthy on rare occasions. 2. María eats yogurt every day, but natural, nothing sugary. 3. Stress management. A quiet life. María indicates the need to get closer to people who give us good energy and positivity, and stay away from those who bring the opposite. 4. María has not had any major illness in her 116 years, and she overcame Covid-19 without major consequences.

I couldn't even begin to bother with a show like this. First of all, the vegan diet doesn't tell us what someone is eating; it only tells us what they don't eat. The same is true of the omnivore diet. Either one could be a relatively healthy or unhealthy diet depending on what the people on each diet are eating.

@LiberacionIgualdad

Ай бұрын

The study showed how each diet was designed and what they consisted of. Both are considered to be quite healthy, centered around whole plants, basically diferentiated by whether they contained some meat or not. The study is quite interesting (I haven't watched the documentary). The channel Plant Chompers just released a great video about it, interviewing the scientists behind it. I highly recommend you check it out! Here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/pmZopKWuiKzSiqw.htmlsi=zcqUaYGyuuGEbAjE

@anathamon

20 күн бұрын

i haven’t seen the show, but the scientific study was excellent.

I've eaten an omnivore diet for the first 17 years of my life and then switched to a vegan diet. I'm now 54. I can honestly say there's room for improvement in both ways of eating. I had issues when I ate meat and in the first ten years as a vegan. Eating whole foods and drinking filtered water is best while also making sure you're getting adequate omega 3. Stay away from sugar and processed carbs. Also, I've found that eating plenty of fermented foods will keep you regular, more so than increasing your fiber intake. Lastly, exercise is also important. Lots of walking and either free weights or machine work is necessary to maintain your form. That's about it.

Well said! You have a great way of communicating complex scientific problems to the masses without over-complicating it. Another great quality of yours is you aren't egotistical in relaying your message. Other people seem to want to make themselves sound smarter, rather than relay/explain a point. Thank you! I started watching the show and was immediately disappointed by how persuasive it was. I didn't finish watching it.

Dr. Gil, Thank you for remaining committed to presenting scientific data. It can't be easy when you see almost every other well respected healthcare professional becoming a for profit ad for various wellness products. I'm sure you are aware of the $$$ involved. Please know that you have a community of followers who appreciate the fact that you remain true to presenting scientific facts with no loyalty to any product or specific diet. You are a breath of fresh air in this time of distorted information. Muito obrigada from the Algarve.

BRAVO Dr. Gil! If you could see me, you would see I am giving you a standing ovation. So right about "half-truths" they are dangerous and will cause people like me to not believe anything you say and turn you off. This is why I love your channel; you based your decisions/statements on science not on your personal biases. Thank you!

@JordiMuntada

4 ай бұрын

The problem with only-science-based decisions is that one can harm a lot. I think that first comes philosophy and morals and then science

There is so much science supporting that plant based diets lead to better health. And I’m living proof. When I was eating g the SAD I had so many issues. I’m so much better. That’s all the truth I need. If you’re sick and tired of being sick and tired, do your own homework. Try it yourself. The proof is in the vegetable. 🥦

Don't forget the main objective of Netflix documentaries is not to inform, but to entertain and profit. Obviously, controversial topics are very lucrative, regardless of the quality of the evidence presented.

@4124V4TA-SNPCA-x

4 ай бұрын

You are right and I agree with you. However, Dr. Gil also told the same during this rant. And the problem with it that there are many people who aren't into health and nutrition that much, unlike most subscribers of channels like this one. Those less interested people base their opinions on one or two popular Netflix documentaries and maybe one or two short articles in lifestyle magazines like Cosmopolitan.

I literally couldn’t wait for u to make video after seeing the documentary myself on Netflix :D I m so glad u did this vid.

The weight loss was so small (−1.9 [0.7] kg; 95% CI, −3.3 to −0.6 kg), it's unlikely this caused the drop in LDL and the lengthening of the telomeres.

Well done! I love a non-biased review and your level headed conversation! A coverage of what omnivores ate..(SAD diet,junk food, ultra processed etc), vs vegan (did they eat vegan-or did they add the “fake” meat and cheese and ultra processed vegan “food”?) would be interesting. Fascinating subject..I was vegan (stopped 3 years ago) for almost 30 years and find this sudden flood of documentary-type shows intriguing. I look forward to more on this subject! Thank you for your steady hand in dissecting the details we all need to see. The wizard of oz, was after all, just a man behind a curtain.

Every time I see one of your videos, at a certain point, I need to pause the video and comment: I really love the way you analize a topic. You don’t leave anything to the case and try to cover every little aspect of the whole thing. You are a true mentor to me! Filippo, young MD from Italy 🇮🇹

I was impressed that the results were not overwhelming a vegan win, but they still went through with it. Obviously better numbers for vegans, but the real benefits are cumulative over a lifetime. That can't be captured in the format of a Netflix show.

@alanhamford2538

4 ай бұрын

What has dieting got to do with slim fit young'uns?

@ReflectedMiles

4 ай бұрын

... including an elevated risk of degenerative diseases over those long periods. The picture is never just all roses or all thorns. That's why truthful and comprehensive details are so important in health sciences / nutrition.

@DrummerDucky

4 ай бұрын

It's not about veganism really, it's about emphasizing whole plants as the centerpiece of one's diet. That said, one can eat the healthiest variety of foods for all his life and still succumb to a banal infection on his 37th birthday; no habit is magic, genetics and luck will always be factors., yet it's still better to shift the odds in the right direction.

@mysticjedi6730

4 ай бұрын

Just not true. When you get to wake up everyday and take a massive dump.. satisfying.. Meat gets you backed up and constipated..

@Sealegs9

4 ай бұрын

It was also only done over a short period of time

Because the intake of dairy foods may lower the risk of some cancers and possibly increase the risk of others, the ACS does not make specific recommendations on dairy food consumption for cancer prevention.

I could not agree with what you said more. Especially about the part where statements are exaggerated from "the vegan side". I am shouting this from the rooftops for years now in the animal rights community. And still I am hearing claims like "xyz-animal product causes cancer, kills the plantes etc..."

Don't apologize! I love your "rant" and am completely on board with you!

All I know is that I was in Keto for years which I did perfetly, my health plummeted, I had problems scratching my entire body until it bled, for example. I had trouble walking. Then I found Dr. Esselstyn. What great health I have now. You have to manage your health yourself, you can't depend on traditional medicine--this taught to me by an esteemed MD I once worked for known round the world and former CHief of Staff at one of the largest teaching hospitals.

@pedro.almeida

Ай бұрын

Histamine overload probably. I also get that if I abuse nuts and fermented foods, because of my double MTHFR gene mutation. So yes, hear the science but don't be afraid to steer in another direction if it doesn't work for your specific case.

I thought the idea for the experiment was really interesting and it was also good to see how people got on and follow along for the duration of the study. Having said that, this documentary I found pretty annoying at a lot of points because it just kept going way off topic with things completely unrelated to the study, episodes 2 and 3 was almost completely irrelevant. Imho it would be better to half the length and actually stay on topic

@liamsmusicalbrain

4 ай бұрын

It was all about virtue signalling rather than an experiment that's why. Just like many other documentaries on netflix. It was nonsense.

@lanazak773

4 ай бұрын

It’s called filler and modern documentaries seem to have a lot of it

@VeganLinked

4 ай бұрын

I felt the same way like he could have been done a lot quicker but it was cool having multiple stories going on at the same time. While a lot of it seemed off track it did all tie together in the end enough for me to feel good about it when it was all said and done. Hopefully you feel good about it when it was all said and done.

@GuoJing2017

4 ай бұрын

@@VeganLinked Honestly I think it made the whole viewing experience worse and makes the whole documentary seem more in the "Vegan propaganda" category so people may be more likely to disregard all the positive findings for a plant based diet. Maybe it's because I've seen most of this before, land of hope and glory, dominion, cowspiracy, what the health, gamechangers etc. one thing I will say though is that I found the story about the chef really interesting, especially as I really like going to vegetarian restaurants that use real vegetables as the food instead of all these meat substitutes, went to one a few days ago and the mushroom bourguignon was amazing. (Btw i have been Vegan about 7 years)

@MindVersusMisery

4 ай бұрын

You said: "(...) this documentary I found pretty annoying at a lot of points because it just kept going way off topic with things completely unrelated to the study, episodes 2 and 3 was almost completely irrelevant." I have to respectfully disagree with this point. I strongly believe that we need to have a more holistic perspective on our food choices. People tend to choose food either from taste preference or health. But I really applaude the initiative to help people widen their understanding of how food choice impact the world. People need to be less selfish, and the only way to do this is to enlighten people about the ripple effect from certain consumer patterns. Especially since the implications of the standard Western diet are so negative.

Excellent points! Especially the part about unreliable communication. Having a very high integrity about factualness is crucial for trust in the field (or person) in the long term and seems to be often forgotten when people are so eager to promote something, even with the best of intentions.

As always, appreciate your focus on evidence over dogma. So refreshing, and so necessary! And about your 'rant': when you rant, you are about as aggressive as some other KZreadrs when they sleep (a certain 'Professor' comes to mind) ...😂 And, lastly, audio is clearly improved. I also have a Blue Yeti, but I feel that yours sounds better than mine. Gotta play around with that some more. Cheers Mario

Regarding colorectal cancer risk, it is lower with dairy consumption, as you mentioned, likely driven by protective effect of calcium. With respect to breast cancer risk, the evidence is mixed. Some studies show increased risk and some show decreased risk. That seems to be related to the type of dairy, with fermented dairy lowering the risk (ER-/PR- breast cancer risk) while non-fermented dairy increasing the risk (ER+PR+ breast cancer risk)as per a 2020 Clinical Nutrition paper by Joana Kaluza et. al. The positive effect of fermented dairy seems to be related to presence of probiotics bacteria. For women though, there seems to an increased risk of ovarian cancer with dairy consumption.

@metalWarriorCZ

4 ай бұрын

I think that this comment should be top.

I'd love to hear your opinion on the Mastering Diabetes channel, and their advocacy of a whole foods plant based diet to reverse type 2 diabetes. Haven't seen anyone in your field take them up on it and as a T2 of 20 years am interested in knowing the truth.

@typenn84

4 ай бұрын

Knowing the truth, I mean I know the truth for me because I tried it. Two weeks into going vegan I dropped my BP pills for good and I can now play sports for hours without getting blurry visioned. I've been mostly plant based with occasional seafood for almost 2 years now. Try it for a 2-3 months and see what changes it makes for you.

@Ozzy1984_

4 ай бұрын

Any diet that creates a calorie deficit is going to bring very similar weight and health benefits. Macros make subtle differences but don't on their own cure diseases.

One of the very rare gems on KZread that try to be scientific and objective at all cost, when most all others are unscientific and subjective.

Thanks. I'm a vegan. I very much appreciate your insistence on rigorous argument. I must often defend myself against aggressive argument by people who expect me to justify my decisions while they don't feel any responsibility to make a coherent argument to back up their "normal" choices. Top tip: do not ever utter the word "tofu"!

@someguy2135

4 ай бұрын

Just say "The T word!' lol

@tomoakley760

4 ай бұрын

I'm not vegan but tofu is awesome, it's sad that a traditional Asian staple food is only seen by Westerners as "vegan chicken" or whatever.

@underated17

4 ай бұрын

I am just wondering if you know if it is true that in order to grow vegetables and fruits to feed a huge population, that millions of birds need to be killed? Is it true that in order to make a fertilizer for strawberries use animals?

@racky-s568

4 ай бұрын

Truth is Mike it goes both ways trust me. I hear ya though. Some people are just so into there diet lifestyle choices that they see everyone who is not apart of it as morally bankrupt.

@JADC1111

4 ай бұрын

It goes both ways. Aggressiveness arises from both sides.

Thank you so much for being so straightforward about nutrition. Much appreciated.

My favourite (unbiased) nutrition channel!

Great review. Very funny! I do hope you NEVER get cancelled :)

I would love to see the results of this study done in a controlled environment (bootcamp style, with controlled meals and workouts). I wonder if, in that case, the loss of muscle mass in the twins with the vegan diet be so significant.

The study was fine. It is sad how these documentaries muddy the results of the study for the general public.

@MT-sq3jo

4 ай бұрын

I agree. The show actually did a disservice to the Stanford study, by providing fuel for those who want to discredit the study due to illegitimate reasons.

We can go back and forth on the soundness of each diet whether it be plant based or omnivore based but ever since the ADA ( the body that certifies nutritionists)issued the statement that a well planned vegan diet is appropriate for all stages of life from pregnancy to elderhood- I think the bigger question is why are we still strengthening these inherently violent systems when we objectively do not have to….

You are the ONLY Doctor I subscribe to on KZread. Every other doctor I've come across is a paid shill with a vested interest to promote a certain product or a particular kind of diet. You are the ONLY genuine doctor I've found on here. Please DON'T CHANGE and I cannot thank you enough for what you do here!! All my best wishes for you Doc!!

@bammeldammel

4 ай бұрын

You should check out medlife crisis then, he is the other genuine doctor.

I have an issue with the study due to it being funded by beyond meat. That taints the entire thing for me. I wouldn't expect a study funded by the dairy industry on whether or not cheese was good for you to show cheese as bad.

@notme5744

4 ай бұрын

I don't think the study was funded by beyond meat, it was just that one of the researchers had some previous funding from them. I could be wrong, though

@BM1982.V2

4 ай бұрын

It wasn't funded by beyond meat. It was partially funded by a guy that also happened to invest in beyond meat. If beyond meat funded it you'd think they would have put beyond meat in the study which they either didn't or they didn't say they did.

@jeffreywp

4 ай бұрын

Gil has covered funding before. The source of the funding isn’t necessarily a problem. You have to look under the hood to make sure they are dotting their I’s and crossing their T’s. I haven’t heard much about this argument from reputable sources online in a while so I think it is becoming a thing of the past for modern day studies because there are so many who WILL call you out for it. But time will tell.

@sammavitae114

4 ай бұрын

As Dr. GIL has pointed out in the past if the data has not been selective and the study is methodologicaly rigorous then it doesn't matter who funded it. Researchers can easily spot a "gamed" study.

@plants_and_wellness1574

4 ай бұрын

It wasn’t funded by beyond meat…

Loved the rant - spot on. And the rest of your analysis of course.

I just want to say, thank you. You are the only MD I have found that is actually not biased. You call out both sides when they are being shady.

@kitefan1

4 ай бұрын

A fair percentage of the KZread Drs. who talk about nutrition are chiropractors.

@privtprofile24

4 ай бұрын

@@kitefan1 I am aware of people like Eric Berg. Thanks for informing though.

@MT-sq3jo

4 ай бұрын

@@kitefan1😂 Sadly, those chiropractors do not limit their spread of misinformation to just nutrition, many of them also talk about disease management like they were actually MD 🤦🏽‍♂️

Great breakdown of the show. However, you’ve had Chris Gardner on your channel a bunch, I was honestly a bit surprised that there’s as much criticism of it in lieu of that.

Everything on Netflix is propaganda. Even kids' movies.

I hope people can look at the Stanford twin study, and understand the makers of this documentary are adding their narrative on top. That should be taken with a large grain of salt, but shouldn’t take away from the actual study.

I believe Gary Fraser (on the proof with Simon Hill) found dairy milk increased risk of breast cancer, and may have suggested that it might be bovine hormones in dairy milk that increased risk of prostate and breast cancer, such that yogurt and cheese might not have same effect as hormones are lowered during the process of making yogurt and cheese.

@MT-sq3jo

4 ай бұрын

Another possibility is that fermented milk products like cheese and yogurt contain probiotics and/or postbiotics, both of which provide health benefits that outweigh any potential downside of consuming milk products.

If calories weren't equated then you remove the most important variable immediately. Many many health benefits are seen based on lower calorie diets when weight loss occurs regardless of what is eaten, there's a plethora of studies showing this. Weight loss is usually the initial driver of improved health, you're markers improve. (like the Twinkie diet experiment). Correlation vs causation If they equated calories and the Vegan diet still comes out on top, then you can deduce that a Vegan diet is likely better

@BM1982.V2

4 ай бұрын

The lower calories were when they chose what to eat though. The vast majority of vegans eat less calories than omnivores on average because vegan foods tend to be lower calorically dense and higher fibre so you feel full with less calories. It's hard to control for this variable when people are able to choose their own food. Almost impossible.

@k.h.6991

4 ай бұрын

People lose more weight on a vegan diet because the fiber makes them feel satiated, so they eat less calories. It's a feature, not a bug.

@ma_nu

4 ай бұрын

Even that would not be enough. It would also have to be the same protein amount for example. Also a huge problem is the fact that your previous diet influences the results. If you previously always eat a certain way, for example lots of cheese, then you will not lack nutrients that are high in cheese, but lack nutrients in foods you consume less of. A change to the vegan group will provide you in short terms with a greater food divercity and with the currently lacking nutrients. But following this diet long term might lead to other nutrient deficiencies, so you will benefit by going back to cheese and vice versa. The short duration of the experiment is just a huge problem to predict long term results.

@lowbarbillcraig3689

4 ай бұрын

Gardner's experiments are usually to see how real people handle a diet in the real world. Forcing the calories equal would be the complete opposite of the aim of the experiment and would make the experiment less relevant to real world application.

@lowbarbillcraig3689

4 ай бұрын

If you follow two diets without counting calories and one diet gets you to SPONTANEOUSLY reduce your calories that's an important experimental result. You wouldn't find that information if you forced calorie to be the same.

I felt like this could have been two completely separate shows. I was super interested in the experiment but when it started shifting towards vegan propaganda, I lost interest pretty quickly - I’m very interested in going plant based but just don’t like some of the dishonesty around it.

Thank you. You have the voice and understanding of reason.

Well done, Dr. Keep up the great work educating on facts and science.

“It’s been real guys” 🤣🤣 still laughing

I think calorie restriction (meaning: not overeating or binge eating) is most important. Any particular diet is just added improvement.

@mitkoogrozev

4 ай бұрын

Kind of, sometimes/to some degree. A diet does have an effect on the amount of calories consumed (so caloric restriction or overeating or binge eating), it's not something independent of the diet that you do. You don't apply force of sheer will or something, you don't only and completely CHOOSE how much calories you eat. No, the calories consumed are controlled by the content of your diet (some foods more filling than others, some modulate your hormones to feel hungry all the time thus making you more likely to eat more , some are small and calorie dense and can't fill you up easily unless you eat big quantities which means you go overboard on your calories, etc. etc.) and various other factors.

@AVanMan

4 ай бұрын

lmao calories in calories out is whats important. All you really have to do is watch out for trans fats and don't eat an excessive amount of sugar

@RiDankulous

4 ай бұрын

There is good evidence that fiber can be satiating, plus I believe that an elimination of some foods that I overate keeps me from overeating, but it doesn't work for everybody. I went whole food-plant based and eliminted a whole slew of foods I tended to overeat occasionally.

@VeganLinked

4 ай бұрын

It's also nice to have a way of eating that doesn't involve hurting others like abusing animals, creating violent jobs, being toxic is running communities, creating zoonotic diseases, deforestation, desertification, dead zones, chronic reviews, chronic reviews, chronic diseases, etc.

@brucejensen3081

4 ай бұрын

​@@mitkoogrozevI think it's about forming good habits, and "dieting" is a bad habit. Work out a nutrition plan that works for you, then when you are active, you will drop some bodyfat, being over-active can be a bad habit too, as can underactive. Fuelling fat loss is important. Won't be any quick results

You are so right in your rant about cherry-picking information/data - thank you for pointing it out

The problem with studies into the effect of diet and cancer is that they're all short term in relation to the the lefe cycle of cancer, most breast cancers taking 25 years from first abnormal cell to clinical presentation. I am concerned about the role of bovine mammary virus in breast cancer stimulation, - do you have any thoughts on this Dr Gil?

I did found the documentary to be interesting and well-intentioned, however some of that was overshadowed by the heavy bias. I think both arguments can be true but the presentation needs to be 100% objective.

Always reminding me why I’m subbed to your channel. Nice nuanced discussion

Another fantastic video Gil 🤙

Great! You being honest and critical about the show is great. Some health influencers are just not honest and I definitely see that as a big red flag!

Totally agree with your belief in honest and complete information.

Really love the content!!!

Excellent rant. Although I eat mostly plant based, I was highly annoyed by the propaganda in the Netflix show.

@AaronVets

4 ай бұрын

Would you prefer “propaganda” that was in favour of murdering innocent animals and destroying the planet?

@buckmurdock2500

4 ай бұрын

also plant based, despite carnivores insisting I am required to have a "V" title ! ! !

As someone who was vegetarian for 25 years, and who was addicted to Mac n cheese and pizza, but who has been vegan for over two years now, I do believe casomorphines are addictive. I feel much better now and my health has improved. Giving up dairy is definitely a renunciation, not unlike giving up other addictions.

@AVanMan

4 ай бұрын

lmao as someone who has suffered from extreme addictions its actually disrespectful that you say this. To compare dairy to drug and other addictions is crazy especially when the evidence says that they are not addictive in humans. Keep living your life the way you want but just know your probably experiencing placebo

@glumberty1

4 ай бұрын

Maybe your body was craving the nutrients in the cheese you were eating.

@calebwert1057

4 ай бұрын

I think more has to do with the combination of fat and salt

@lanazak773

4 ай бұрын

I think you’re right about the natural morphine in dairy especially cheese. I have noticed that too.

@RiDankulous

4 ай бұрын

I believe there is something addictive bout some foods and avoiding the foods we eat too much can be a solution for some people.

I totally agree that facts and evidence is important...otherwise, it turns ppl away. Thanks for your constant vigilance 🙂

I really really appreciate your balanced response.

Thank you! I felt the same way watching this series. I’m a self-advocate of eating ‘mostly plants’ but my inner-skeptic was blinking “cherry-picked” and “anecdotal” throughout much of this ‘documentary.’ I think its editorial feel did a disservice to plant-based diets by adding to the ‘noise’.

Im curious, did the telemores get longer than baseline or were they longer when compared with the corresponding twin?

You seem to have embraced some healthy skepticism which is far more interesting and helpful to listen to. Looking forward to more critical thinking.

Fantastic. You rock! We need more people with your attitude towards ”the truth”. Love ya!

Gil, great breakdown information as usual. No cancel....humor is good.

Thank you as always Dr Gil! your synopsis is fair and balanced and informative. I loved both your mini rant 😅 and your caveat towards the end for folks to keep in mind Netflix is not a science journal - it is entertainment at the end of the day. I think people should relax and appreciate this is for a general audience as evidenced by the pairs of twins selected for filming who were clearly either the most exuberant and interesting personalities or most beautiful. I also know Dr Christopher Gardner has never explicitly advocated for veganism per se but just for more plants in diets. The series also probably tried to unpack just too many complex topics from health, to agriculture, to modern food systems and supply chains, climate change, animal welfare and ethics, societal inequality and structural racism in America, and Ocean pollution - it was simply too much in too little time. My feeling is we humans are inherently selfish and most of us of limited bandwidth and get angry about complexity. We come to Netflix to be entertained not to be challenged too much - so next time maybe the producers need to focus purely on health and performance outcomes? but its a hard call not to show just how interconnected we all are on this pale blue dot suspended in a sunbeam as Carl Sagan so aptly put it. BTW do you think that maybe you could teach a class on statistical analysis and inference? Hypothesis testing and research design and how to read and interpret journal papers? logical inference? For the lay person? Should this be a modern basic literacy competence? And how would one teach adults this? Apologies for TL;DR - i wanted to keep it short but then figured you go to great lengths to give us these amazing videos so the least we could do aside from sharing your links is give you feedback and show you that you really help us think deeply and more objectively on things. Anyway in summary THANK YOU for always patiently clarifying and analyzing and unpacking for us these complex topics. We absolutely appreciate it.

Thank you for non sensational reporting. Great channel!

I liked this video, you have summed it up perfectly for less versed but interested people in a short video in a concise and easy-to-understand manner. I just hate the "only eat this way" advocates evangelizing with half truths. (Even if they advocate my lifestyle. ESPECIALLY if they agree with me, in fact.) A half truth by conscious omitment is worse than any lie. And dr. Greger whole knowledgeable, I've listened/watched several of his podcasts and he is way biased and constantly cherry picks information which is a bummer. There is other weaknesses with this documentary on top of the ones mentioned by you: it is way too unfocused and barely presented solid data. Imo it should have focused on the Stanford Twins Experiment or at least on nutrition. (An unbiased view would be a plus while am unrealistic expectations from a show). 2) The show presented (parroted) information from previous Netflix shows like Seaspiracy and The Game Changers (lazy much, creators?). 3) Finally, another fact regularly omitted by vegan (or other lifestyle) evangelists is the fact that industrial vegan alternative food production just as destructive as industrial meat production of not more so. Additionally on land, meat production is less damaging compared to industrial fishing. And the worst environmental pollutants by far is shipping and transportation industry, followed by big oil. Yet they rarely mentioned. I am pretty sure the cheese I buy locally produced by either local artisans or the huge cheese factory with huge output and international presence but happens to be located in my town (using local milk and water) is way less completed to if i buy a vegan cheese alternative mentioned in the docu, produced in the US, or anywhere else abroad. Sorry for the long rant. If you have read this far I am happy for you and have a nice day! 😊 Edited some typo, sorry for the ones left in.

@B.fej.y

4 ай бұрын

Nice summation, totally agree with you.

If I recall correctly, the diets were not isocaloric, right?

@dragan176

4 ай бұрын

They were, but vegans tended to eat less calories when they had to choose for themselves. That should tell you then vegan diet is more satiating

@donwinston

4 ай бұрын

Yes. The subjects could eat as much or little as they desired.

@cybervoid8442

4 ай бұрын

Yes but in my opinion, thats a more accurate picture of how people would eat

@roynijssen7813

4 ай бұрын

@@dragan176 you mean: No, they were not isocaloric xD

@itsalwayshalloweenexceptwh5118

4 ай бұрын

@@dragan176 It doesn't tell you the diet is more satiating. At most it tells you they were full (that's not the same as satiated) on fewer calories because the overal composition of the diet they were instructed to eat had a lower calorie density. A study that pitted vegan diet against omnivore diet, that was covered by this channel not so long ago, mentioned that whilst the participants eating the vegan diet ate fewer calories even when they were eating ad libitum, they also reported being less satiated overal. One of the explanations was that they were eating more low calorie density foods. That's how you get more overal weight lost, fewer calories ingested ad libitum, and more reports of being full but not satiated after meals. Fullness is just a pressure sense resulting from the volume of food goes into the stomach. Satiety is the result of hormonal signals (ghrelin and leptin). The vegan diets in the study were more filling because the volume of food was higher, but they were reported as less satiating. Some people do not personally feel a difference between fullness and being satiated, but this doesn't seem to be the norm. This doesn't mean a vegan diet can't be satiating. But if someone reports not being satiated whilst being full they should reconsider the proportion of low calorie density foods in their diet, as well as re-assess their intake of protein and dietary fat.

Thanks for all you do. I learn something new in every episode.

Most annoying was that they included the actual twins in the docu. Who cares what they say or do or look like?

Thank you sir

Snow day at work so I finally get to make the first comment ;-) Edit: Re unreliable information rant, the lack of reliable sources of information for people who don't have time, energy, or skill to do literature reviews on any topic that they want to learn about, is why channels like this are so valuable. I am capable of doing fairly solid research into what the current state of knowledge on a given topic is (I have a Ph.D. in an unrelated field), but I am not going to make a full-time job of studying nutrition. For me personally, if I catch a few problems, that don't get corrected in an appropriate way, I stop watching the content. Dr. Greger (you showed his picture) is a good example. I watched some of his videos a few years ago, because I like to hear good news about things I already support, but he is more of a salesman than a purveyor of reliable information, which, as you point out, makes him a bad salesman. I would rather get solid information.

@stefanbuttigieg3750

4 ай бұрын

mmh how does it snow at work?

@Guishan_Lingyou

4 ай бұрын

@@stefanbuttigieg3750 Work was cancelled due to the snow (which I didn't find out until I had already driven to work in the snow ;-)

The fact they dropped the doc before the study itself has been published / peer reviewed is a bit of a red flag for me tbh. Cart before the horse

Thank you! We need to have more truth around the facts to have intelligent discussions in society. When two sides of a polarized issue can't even agree on the facts, it makes discussions impossible

Your assessment is fair. I am vegan and very much biased toward the health benefits for vegan diets, so this helps bring me back to reality a little bit. Dairy and fish seem to be beneficial sometimes (and sometimes not). It’s important to show the other side as well, otherwise we don’t sound so credible, and there is still a lot of science to back us up. I still think the documentary is helpful and scientifically accurate overall, with those minor corrections you made.

People have a hard time giving up cheese because it is delicious...No studies needed to figure this out.

The links to “some research” that shows dairy consumption reduces cancer is neither linked here nor on the ACS website. Anyone have a link to these studies showing the reduced cancer risk of dairy consumption??

I study health and nutrition a lot. I’m a huge proponent of regenerative agriculture including farm animals, of eating primarily plants and fungi, and restricting ultraprocessed foods in favor of whole food. While I thought it was educational seeing the disgusting state of the factory farms, and I think it’s awesome to grow mushrooms instead of that, the entire series was slanted. This is just the sort of show my meat-eating friends will use as another example of bad science and propaganda, and they will be right. All the photos of meat were hamburgers or hot dogs. There is much evidence to suggest that dairy yogurt and cheese are actually healthy. The data revealed at the end weren’t even corroborating the statements made throughout the series.

@eticapathologica

4 ай бұрын

It surely is a biased show, but it doesn't mean all science is bad. Out of curiosity, what statements are you referring to?

@carnismiscancer2108

4 ай бұрын

More than half the population suffers from digesting lactose. You can't make the blanket statement that dairy and yogurt are healthy for people.

I made it as far as the woman saying that if we don't consume carbs, the body will eat its own stomach lining. She made no distinction of what type of carbs might be protective of the stomach lining, so I googled it to see if she meant prebiotic fiber or what, and the first result said bone broth was highly protective of the stomach lining. Interesting she didn't mention that. She just used the buzzword "carbs" to make her point that we need carbs. Disappointing since I probably would've agreed with a lot of the other points in the documentary. I also see a lot of people here mention Plant Chompers. I've watched several of those videos and I have to turn them off when he gets snarky. I much prefer Gil's style of humor to the snark.

Thanks for sharing!

I love the channel man, you are amazing. Keep up the great work doc!

So sad to see all that money and time and energy being invested in a documentary/series that yet again lacks accuracy, honesty, integrity, objectivity, nuance, science, and further pushes emotions, ideology and confusion. Can't wait for all the folks like you picking the claims apart and settling some of the confusion. Thanks!

If I eat yogourt everyday, is it better for cancer risk to reduce quantity or frequency of dairies. Better to eat 50% of the normal quantity or to eat one day and skip one day?

Meanwhile in Italy, Switzerland and France we eat a lot of cheese and meat and are very healthy.

@liamsmusicalbrain

4 ай бұрын

France aren't healthy? You been recently? Full of obesity and illness. But, that's probably from all the fast food and bread rather than good meat and cheese.

@Julottt

4 ай бұрын

What are you talking about? thousands of peoples are still dying from the first cause of human death, vascular problem mainly from eating too much meat, dairy, and eggs full of salt, oxydized cholesterol and saturated fat.

They weren’t even assigned randomly- they were given their less preferred diet choice.

I totally agree with you! They talk all about the harmful ways that meat is made, but they say nothing about how harmful all these highly-processed vegan products can be. It seemed more like an advertising campaign for certain brands than an actual unbiased documentary. I don't know how Tim Spector agreed to appear in this show, he is all about avoiding highly processed foods, vegan or otherwise, so I doubt he endorses any of these products promoted there. I found the documentary really disappointing.

I m plant based... though in the future I wouldn t mind sneaking a couple oysters or mackerel a month in the future. 4me its about longevity (cut out smoking & alcohol, more exercise, quality carbs and fats (whole foods & lower saturated fats) and environmental effects. Everything else is icing on the cake

I believe PlantChompers pointed to some kind of evidence that salt and fat combos are especially addictive. This would clearly apply to cheese. And the salted pistachios he could not get enough of. Maybe have a word with him? My personal experience says cheese is addictive.

@robz.3225

4 ай бұрын

Agree 100%

@itsalwayshalloweenexceptwh5118

4 ай бұрын

I think foods that combine fat and salt are usually very palatable, which makes them more alluring. I do think that every food can be addictive though. But I also believe some foods are made to be hard to resist (crisps/chips, ice cream, etc). That can explain why cheese is considered addictive by many people. However, a bit of nuance, cheese is rarely eaten on its own. It goes into dishes such as pizza, mac & cheese, pasta, cheeseboards together with sliced cured meat and fruit, etc. That makes me question it. If it was that addictive, many more people would be eating cheese on its own right? I never personally cared much for cheese. Salted pistachios sound really good though.

Excellent Review !

Your objectivity is much apreciated 👍

Oh interesting. I’m an identical twin. I was a vegan for three years. I’m also an athlete (dancer) for my profession. She eats whatever and is not an athlete for her career… however we are genetically lean and athletic and we don’t over eat. So we are the same size… im just the stronger, more toned version. That being said, I look and feel better than her. I am no longer vegan, but when I was my skin was literally glowing. I quit being vegan out of convenience. I travel a lot and was sick of trying to find quick vegan options. I think any diet when done right can be effective. Chips and beer are vegan. If that’s what you’re living off of you will look and feel awful. Also when I was vegan I always stayed away from meat and cheese alternatives. They looked disgusting and are not good for you. I was a very healthy vegan who stuck to fresh Whole Foods. My advice is to just eat a variety of organic quality foods and to stay away from processed food. Tale as old as time.

Well, this is surprising to me: a good friend of mine who is a gastro-enterologists who is specialised in nutrition says that while indeed there is a negative correlation between dairy intake and bowel-cancers, the is a higher risk of breast cancer for people who consume more dairy. I'm not a doctor, so I wouldn't know where to look, but this does confuse me a bit. Two doctors that I tend to trust giving an opposite answer on the breast cancer topic.

Gil, could you make a video about nutrients such as trace elements and minerals? Here in Germany for example there seems to be an endemic iodine deficiency and vegans or those who follow an almost strict PBD may run into iodine deficency. Seems that only B12 gets mentioned mostly.

@janeslater8004

4 ай бұрын

Seaweed has iodine and you can overdose on it. One person died of overdose of iodine supplentation. Its micro nutroent not macrl

@pomberry3591

4 ай бұрын

Is iodine not added to table salt in Germany?

@trevorpatterson8712

4 ай бұрын

Eat some seaweed! Dried and shredded Wakame seaweed is a great option for natural iodine intake on a plant-based diet 😬

@MunchinYou-jy6km

4 ай бұрын

You have to buy iodized salt. 1g of iodized salt covers roughtly 13%, so you would need 8-9g of salt (6g is recommended). Thus, too much salt to dependent upon. This fortification has probably been done for omnivore diets, as their diet contains some iodine from animal products already, so iodized salt would round up their diets. @@pomberry3591

@MunchinYou-jy6km

4 ай бұрын

​​@@trevorpatterson8712Yeah I know. Could try it in the future my main focus was just to hit iodine. So I bought VEG1 yesterday which contains iodine and is a bit more cost-effective than just seaweed I guess?

i thought i couldn't give up cheese but once i did I don't really like it anymore

@hardcoreherbivore4730

4 ай бұрын

Kinda like an addiction?

@robertusga

4 ай бұрын

Now go look up the definition of addiction. Liking cheese is not it. Next, try actual outcome data from human studies and cheese. Healthy and not addictive.

@hardcoreherbivore4730

4 ай бұрын

@@robertusga Outcome data! 🤣 What do you have? We’ve got plenty of health outcome data that shows those who abstain from dairy entirely have better health outcomes. So, it’s definitely not as clear as you assume.

@robertusga

4 ай бұрын

@hardcoreherbivore4730 lol, that's not hoe science works buddy. All you have is anecdotal stories. Same as every other diet tribe who have improved their health. That doesn't mean any of them are "the best". Hard outcome data from randomized control trials and systematic reviews as quoted by Dr. Carvalho is where it is at. You have none. Unless you have some to share with us that all experts have missed. Please share.