In under a minute the first red flag "I went from working in a top advertising agency" .

That's the cynical side of investment strategy where punters bet on whether a product will sell rather than whether or not it works.

No way that anyone who had genuinely experienced 4 years of ME/cfs, would propose a 10x markup on a cure they miraculously discovered..

@BracaPhoto

3 ай бұрын

I used to feel sorry for the people when i heard these stories - 2 years ago i was in a horrible car accident and had to amputate some limbs I was back to work within a year and have been pushing through the pain ever since - i no longer believe their "bed bound BS"

@matthewjenkins1161

3 ай бұрын

@BracaPhoto Well done you and I also used to be the work through anything type for 70+ hours a week, but all that has taught you is how to deal with your own physical injuries. I've never experienced such a horrific accident as you describe, but I worked 2 standing jobs from the day after I broke an ankle and never had a days sickness in 5 years, until the Glandular Fever that triggered my ME. It is the push through anything determination, that is so damaging to folk with ME and you'll never understand that, unless you experience that. The more a person with ME tries to push through, the more debilitated they become.

Good video, glad to see someone tackling exactly why this sort of TV 'endorsement' by proxy is so damaging. As someone with ME I'd just like to add that our primary symptom is not actually fatigue, it is post Exertional Malaise - which is a giant flare up of all our symptoms including feeling flu like and very unwell indeed, caused by going even slightly over our physical limitations, anything that uses energy counts - including talking, reading, and even THINKING for people at the very severe end! Thinking uses energy on a cellular level - how else would it happen after all. I would appreciate it if more people could start making sure they mention Post Exertional Malaise since it really is the symptom that rules them all, so to speak. It is what rules my entire life and it's risky - trigger it often enough or big enough, and you don't really recover back to where you were, you stay stuck at a lower level of functioning, it literally makes you sicker than you were. Over time some people end up dead, because it's so incredibly difficult to control and keep inside your limits. When 'over doing it' can simply mean you had an upset tummy and went to the loo a few times too many that day, or had to pick something up from the floor, or simply moved around in bed a bit too much that day, it is unbelievably difficult to stay inside your limits and prevent triggering PEM, many people don't manage it and therefore deteriorate over the years getting sicker and sicker. It's so poorly understood by medical staff that going to hospital becomes something to fear. Research is coming along though and I love that this video talks about how we need more people investing in genuine medical entrepreneurship, moving real, science evidence backed treatment forwards. In all areas, but hopefully soon for ME too.

@pat4brown

3 ай бұрын

As another who has suffered from ME, PEM is definitely the main symptom. I had headaches, weakness, shaking, pain in different parts of my body hour by hour with no obvious origin. The Drs don’t understand and it’s like describing pain - only the sufferer knows what it’s like. It took me 10 yrs of some recovery using pacing. It’s so difficult to keep within your limits without ‘crashing’ and going back to square one being unable to do literally anything. Getting to the toilet or making myself a cup of tea used up what tiny amount of energy I had, and my energy wouldn’t return for days. It’s like the body is a battery that won’t recharge more than 10%. The only help we have is talking to other sufferers on social media, because they’re the only ones who understand. I doubt this lady had real ME. Maybe she just had post viral fatigue for 4 yrs.

Its looking like the BBC have broken advertising rules, an article published today says the ASA have said there is a clear problem and have gone straight to enforcement rather than doing the usual initial investigation. ME patients deserve real scientific research and protection from predatory businesses such as Acu Seeds. Giselles story has changed so much over the past few years that many people even doubt the validity of her personal story which her pitch on the tv show was based around.

As someone who's life has been destroyed by ME, and who has been working with my countries best professors to treat it. This is incredibly heart breaking. We need real help, from real science. There is a plethora of snake oil already. The fact is, ME is incurable. A mere 5% of people recover (who probably didn't have true ME to begin with). If this woman's product really did heal people, it would be worth 100 times the value. This is why I don't watch TV; it is so fake to the point that people don't know what's real and what's not. Dumb does not begin to describe this farce.

@rickkwitkoski1976

2 ай бұрын

@jeffmcdonald101 You said it. "Alternative" medicine is bogus until it can be clinical proven to work. Then is becomes medicine! I've got an undiagnosed condition. I've tried several things offered by people. Nothing worked. The last thing that I tried was hypnotherapy. After ONE session... it is HYPE! NO Therapy at all. I can get guided meditation (which is what it was) for FREE on YT. This vid shows very well the hype of "Alternative" medicine. It's NOT medicine! Hucksters are sucking money out of sick and desperate people.

Near the end you pointed out that she was probably more interested in the exposure than the investment - But doesn't that mean that the BBC are effectvely ADVERTISING products? I thought they had strict rules against that. A nice little loophole for them to make cheap TV.

ASA says there was “likely to be a clear problem under the rules”. He [Michael Marshall from The Good Thinking Society] said it raises questions about the BBC’s due diligence in allowing Acu Seeds on the show." Daily Mirror reporting on 31 January, 2024

@rachelidoless1638

3 ай бұрын

I have just read this too, it's very promising news. The BBC were silly to believe they could just brush this under the carpet and forget about it.

Thanks for bringing awareness to this. Due to M.E. being neglected while being such a brutal and life ending disease means that there are loads of grifters with no morals who prey on incredibly sick people.👍

Very very sad. Just goes to show the BBC have entirely lost whatever it was that I loved about them when I grew up watching them. I'm wondering why I even pay my TV License any more, barely watch any BBC nowadays, not even the news.

There is an inherent liability bc they are making health claim which could proven false

Goes to show why so many people no longer care if the BBC ceases to exist and what a waste of money a licence fee really is. I am old enough to remember when the BBC was the only channel worth watching but that is a very long time ago.

It seems some business people are more interested in what they can sell than whether it's a worthy product or even completely useless - or worse than useless. They know how gullible some people are. Debora bangs on about how she won't invest in things that clash with her ideals, her beliefs, and how big she is into all the environmental stuff - so if something has a tiny bit of plastic content that isn't biodegradable, she'll kick up a fuss and by declining a proposition for this apparent reason, she still benefits massively by the viewers who actually believe she's some kind of angel on their wavelength. I suspect they have all managed to pull the wool over their own eyes to enabe them to do the same to others, so they can "believe" in a product. I find them all a bit pretentious but then again I suppose they are effectively "actors"playing a role to some extent, because this is an entertainment show first and foremost.

@AJansenNL

3 ай бұрын

I wouldn't say gullible. Some people are desperate. Especially this patient group. The NHS offers no treatment and very ill people are left to fend for themselves, battling for the smallest bit of care and income. If doctors have nothing to offer and you lost your job, friends, hobbies, etc what would you do?

To steal a line from the great Tim Minchin, "You know what they call alternative medicine that works?" "Medicine"

@rossmcleod7983

3 ай бұрын

And it is a great line, but a small catch in there is medicines acceptance of placebos. Weird how they have to admit to something working (as high as 20%) that they cannot explain.

@sznikers

3 ай бұрын

​@@rossmcleod7983is it really? Its not a secret patient attitude is part of successful treatment, by fooling them into believing they will get better they get slightly better. After all every single process in you is controlled by systems in you. People with no hope survive less often. There are also those that complain all the time on slightest bit of pain and discomfort with which entire rest of society lives normally, you give em fancy pill filled with sugar and you can focus on those in real need.

Try not to believe everything you see on TV. Episodes of "Dragons Den" are just a long commercials... for The scammers to hijack your brain.

Great video. Dragons Den has gone down the pan this year, they're desperate to invest in anything and everything now, suddenly it doesn't matter if its a gimmick or if it's never made a profit, and this silly and potentially harmful product highlights that.

Your analysis and precis were spot on! Excellent.

The disclaimer in white text is on the streamed episode, but wasn't included on the original airing on 18th Jan. BBC doing the barest minimum after AcuSeeds sales have hugely increased since the show went out - preying on the desperate.

"When you pray upon investor's hopes that don't know any better, you go to prison. When you pray upon customer's hopes that don't know any better, you go on Dragon's Den." Powerful words, Ben!

Am interested in the burgeoning vagus nerve research through external stimulation- and I'm a solid sceptic on any fringe techniques. There are some double blinds done showing that TENS stimulation of particular point where vagus nerve surfaces on one section of ear. Can't see how a seed / metal could " stimulate 🙄

@sadface7457

3 ай бұрын

Your stimulating it though touch like how most of our nerves are designed to be stimulated

Saying that alternative help can cause a delay in treatment seems a little unfair. Most chronically ill people are looking for alternative paths because the ‘treatment’ does not work. The doctors don’t believe you, they can’t find anything wrong with you. At every turn it is depleting and defeating to repeat this process over and over. So you become desperate and look for alternative paths that will believe that you are sick.

Dr Ben, for this video, just a massive THANK YOU! ❤

5:45 "oh, I have ear seeds regularly. [Big toothy grin] Better than SNL delivery for the stupidest sentence from the entire bunch.

So, what are good investments then?

Had this on my watch later since it came out. Very glad i finally got around to watching it. so happy to see this shit being called out.

Well said, well said,well said!! 👍👍👍

I've got my inner ear pierced, it's meant to help with migraines. Since having the piercing I do suffer with migraines less. I know it's not the same affliction as ms

I think it is bizarre that as a viewer, we indirectly played a part in funding this chicanery through TV licensing fees.

Kissinger - Smart People?? That monster!? I'm out

I think her first lie is that she is from Sheffield - that's no Yorkshire accent. I know, I lived and worked up there and have family from there.

@EndersWorlds

3 ай бұрын

Maybe she moved there in adulthood - some people's accents become fixed in childhood and don't change after that regardless of where they live later. Second thought - she sounds relatively middle class accent wise - this can be (in some people) entirely neutral sounding and some posh northerners don't sound northern at all.

Yeah definitely fraud imo

Many investors are just looking for the next Novo Nordisk.

Deborah always wants to see the patent...and they're always asking about scientific evidence what happened this time?

"Dumb money" got you my thumb up Second video from you and it's really interesting, Doc.

top quality video thank you Ben

Beyond the claims. They hammer others for such a mark up, there was someone this week who made a product for £8 and was selling £24 and they were very unhappy with it.

$50k to get in on this? sounds like a deal! this reminds me of goop, Gwyneth Paltrow's company, currently worth $250 million. unethical, but it's probably gonna make money... maybe she needs to move this to the American market 😅

Cannabis is what i use legalnof course prescribed by psychologist

sadly this is the way ALL business and the type of people who run them nowadays behave and the actions business seem to more n more take are not , or certainly not the main aim, being to solve a problem or deliver a best practice or even decent product or real solution, but simply as a method of there own personal enrichment - to find some way to get away with extracting that "10X" from a punter as easily as possible, seemingly without any care to any other concideration or even to deliver negatives that inflict on people and society. this is a failure of society and those people we hold in regard and trust .

Marketing giants taking advantage of the nieve, the only thing scary about this is that there are people out there who actually believe in alternative medicines, wow.

Excellent video!

Great video! IMHO, this is a scam intended to create short term buzz followed by a rush of sales. Make few million in profit and then liquidate before the lawsuits start.

She didn't have Me she had depression. Not all depression symptoms are "feeling sad" It drains you and you don't know why.

I can tell you now she didn't just do acupuncture do deal with her ms she would have done many of things during that time now would she know why works its a complete sham

ah yes. comodifying health... who could have seen this result coming /s

This should not be surprising to anyone. The last economic cycle with low interest rates has shown us that those investment firms and VCs with billions of dollars ready to "invest" in the next-gen technology; are filled with individuals who are simply degenerate gamblers disguised as "well-thought-out", "meticulous", and "diligent" investors. A good rule of thumb is if you see someone with a lot of money that they want to invest into an 'idea' or 'startup' are more likely than not a person driven solely by greed and not by deep understanding or knowledge of the field or tech they are investing in.

Magical thinking strikes again

You're making a categorization error. The Dragons didn't invest in this business opportunity because it is scientifically valid. They invested in it because they know a great grift when they see one.

@FrozenMilkOnACloudyDay

3 ай бұрын

As he says in the video

@BaddHabytzz

3 ай бұрын

To my understanding that is almost exactly Dr. Miles' complaint about this - anyone, but more so people of such vast influence, offering false hope to those in distress simply to make a profit.

@glennandmaris

3 ай бұрын

Exactly the point; there is great need for a moral and social responsibility

@Dcupholder

3 ай бұрын

@@BaddHabytzzhe is not a medical doctor he is a physics major, I don’t know if he has a PhD. I understand that he uses clickbait titles and falsehoods or generalisations in his videos. Also as a new doctor myself never ever trust a random dude in KZread for anything that is potentially affecting your health

@Dcupholder

3 ай бұрын

Also acupuncture according to fda has reduced the symptoms of nausea and pain in patients after a surgery or while chemotherapy.The mechanism that helps have never been explained . The qi theory has been disregarded by everyone. There is no other proven beneficial use of acupuncture .

50% of people are below mean intelligence. That is true also for investors.

Just an ordinary day in a Capitalist society. Capitalism doesn't care about truth or consequences - only profits. She offered potential profits, and the rest doesn't matter.

@definitlynotbenlente7671

3 ай бұрын

Srew capitalism

You invest to make money, the next pet rock or Bennie baby is your hope.

I find it weird that the "Dragon" are so easily duped by a snake oil salesman. Sure this could sell a few but it's snake oil and won't last.

@definitlynotbenlente7671

3 ай бұрын

Short term profits are to tempting to ignore

@peternystrom921

Ай бұрын

they where not Duped, they know exaktly what they are doing.

I think you're making one very large mistake here. You are looking at this from a moral and scientific perspective. These people don't care whether the product works or not, they care whether they can make money. At least in the US, this would be a brilliant investment because people are stupid and will buy it (especially with the free advertising of being on the show), and as long as you slap the correct wording on it, is perfectly legal, so zero risk.

@icedcoffee8561

3 ай бұрын

exactly what I was thinking! $50k isn't much risk, and there's plenty market for this garbage. unethical, but not dumb money.

@AJansenNL

3 ай бұрын

Please don't label desperate patients as 'stupid'. There is no treatment for ME. Can you blame them for grasping at straws when they see themselves declining further and further?

@FlesHBoX

3 ай бұрын

@@AJansenNL Falling for this kind of crap requires a level of ignorance, desperation or not. These people prey on ignorance, and figuring out that this kind of thing is a scam does not require much intelligence. I'm tired of apologizing for not being an idiot and trying to act as if I'm not significantly smarter than the average person simply because I take a few seconds every once in a while to try to understand the world around me, as the average human on this planet continues to fall further and further down the hole making Idiocracy more and more prophetic.

@definitlynotbenlente7671

3 ай бұрын

​@@FlesHBoXnot ignorance if people are desperate enough they will try it selling false hope is evil

Dragons' Den is the ultimate exposition of capitalism in its worst form. People who have lucked out or had a talent for kicking a ball trying to convince us that they are business geniuses almost as smart as Donald Trump.

I wonder whether the due diligence aspect of this sales pitch would have panned out differently had Ms Boxer instead been a fat, sweaty, balding middle-aged man?

Life is an IQ test... most fail.

There is evidence that certain certain diety practices could change your bloood pressure persuing that as opposed to a drug would considered alternative medicine because of how medicine is traditionally is practiced 6:33 the is a journal of auyavedic medicine which collects evidence on yogic practices its still not conventional because the auyavadic system doesnt fit within the conventions of medicine though the same could said for accupunture. Hypnonsis has been studied for pain management and but persuing it as an alternative to opiods is considered an alternative practice.

Hilarious is his claim that regular medicines like SSRI work and cause no side effects. Just ignore the rest of his story.

When you're first to market with something that has a low barrier to entry (beads on stickers), it doesn't matter what your markup is because everyone will copy your product until nobody makes money. The only protections for the invention are on trademarks, because the only thing that has been created is a brand.

@MEagenda

3 ай бұрын

Boxer is not first to market ear seeds. There are already dozens of retailers selling auriculotherapy seeds in the UK and US - and usually cheaper than Boxer sells them.

@rachelidoless1638

3 ай бұрын

You can buy a pack with hundreds of self-adhesive ear seeds online for just a few pounds. They've been around a while now. Also, her main rival AcuPips has already had disputes with AcuSeeds because of copying their business model.

@KastorFlux

3 ай бұрын

@MEagenda lol so they're late to the grift and over priced. When he said "dumb money" he wasn't kidding. 😆

I agree with most of what's said here, except lOnG CoViD. which happens to have all of the common symptoms of vitamin D and vitamin B deficiency, and can take months to correct. There is something else apart from covid itself which when repeated within relatively short periods of time without an adequate reovery period causes t cell exhaustion through over stimulation of the immune system leading to reserves of vitamin D being mkre rapidly expended. This is further exacerbated with vitamin B defhciency. Once you're there you end up with symptoms very easily recognised as ME.

@HSolar

3 ай бұрын

Urm I've been on quality Vit D & B vits for yrs now (as have many in patient community) still hav ME & co (usually has comorbidities) just won't get issues associated with those vit deficiencies. If only that simple 🤦🏻‍♀️

@EndersWorlds

3 ай бұрын

Yeah there's an awful lot of research that shows that long covid isn't a nutrional deficiency, and plenty of people who have it (just like people with ME) who take vast quantities of nutritional high dose supplements and there is no change in the underlying condition. I am someone with severe ME, who fits this category AND has copious experience reading all the research on both ME and Long covid. Please take care of what you say since these conditions have been heavily stigmatised and false facts spread fast, it's important that any statements made correspond with the evidence from the extensive research, to combat that stigma, as stigmas stick like glue and hard to shake off.

@AJansenNL

3 ай бұрын

Yeah, no, this ain't it. ME is often triggered by a virus. Guess what triggers Long Covid? Sure, they also can have a nutritional deficiency, but we should not conflate the two. Also, plenty of very health conscious people like athletes fall victim to LC and ME.

@User-wj7vx

2 ай бұрын

How can you agree with it if you are essentially doing the same as Mrs. Boxer did?

a fully working cure for chronic fatigue would be eating well, spend less time in the phone, sleep 8 hours a day, going to bed early, drink lots of water, doing fair amount of exercises, and having active social life. Certainly not using a pill with the hope of giving us a boost of energy...

@danl.909

3 ай бұрын

@igorastral4816 What smug ignorance. For shame.

@Kaspleen

3 ай бұрын

This person could be joking or using sarcasm, you cannot always tell with a written comment on KZread.

@definitlynotbenlente7671

3 ай бұрын

​@@Kaspleenthese kind of people are serious they have never had been exsposed to any serous medical conditions and think it is as easy as changing lifestyle aand being sick is a rssult of the patient not living healthy enough I had people tell me to fowwow a diet to fix my genetic condition I am sorry but that is not how it works

I just assume anyone with a British accent that is trying to sell me something is a scammer. You guys are the original pirates, after all.

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome sounds like an alternative name to laziness, so alternative medicine could actually be the solution.

@niccorr7009

3 ай бұрын

I wish! I was working as a teacher in a special school when I contracted Swine Flu (2009). I was a fit, active, healthy 35 year old. I never recovered! In the fist 6 months, I had repeated bouts of bronchitis; my face was so swollen that my GP initially thought I had mumps; and I didn’t know what was going on. Within a year, I was struggling with every aspect of life. The ‘fatigue’ in the “Chronic Fatigue Syndrome” label, really hit hard. I couldn’t concentrate; never woke up refreshed; and often woke up in the early hours on my sofa, still in my coat & shoes - having fell asleep immediately on getting home from work. Like I had always done, I simply tried to push through - wrongly thinking it was a stubborn bug I just needed to shift. My first really big collapse came in December 2010. I would come to on the floor at home, with no idea of having collapsed / fainted. I couldn’t even sit up without feeling very unsteady. Having my legs give way on me in the supermarket was embarrassing the first time, terrifying when it happened again. Every system in my body seems to be affected. I had no choice but to retire after prolonged sick leave. I was 37 when my retirement application was accepted- many in their late 50’s with history of heart attack are rejected for ill health retirement from Teachers’ Pensions! I am now mostly bedridden, and at 49 am living with my elderly mother who is also my carer. I am unable to function independently, and that is soul destroying. So please think again if you think M.E. is ‘just being a little tired’ or that sufferers are “lazy”. You will find most have been highly driven and led busy, productive and physically active lives before illness. For now, we are stuck with the label CFS - but as more research progresses, it is becoming clearer that ME or ME/CFS is a multi-systemic illness that affects multiple organs and bodily mechanisms. In the most part, ME begins after illness so there is a strong hypothesis that it has an immune overreaction connection. It can affect any person of any age. Very few of us recover; some actually die as a direct consequence of this illness. I don’t blame you for you response, many people have no real understanding of how devastating this illness truly is. I had cancer (non Hodgkin’s Lymphoma) in 2015-16, and from direct comparison, my experience is that cancer and chemotherapy was far easier to live and deal with than ME. Please find out more and help dispel the myth that ME has anything to do with laziness.

@willowtree813

3 ай бұрын

The reason patients insist on using ME rather than CFS is because of this misunderstanding. ME/CFS is a complex condition that has many symptoms including cognitive difficulties, widespread pain and muscle weakness in addition to fatigue of the "I can't get out of bed to use the toilet because I have flu" variety rather than the "I walked a fair way yesterday and need to take it easy today". Fatigue is ill exhaustion, not feeling a bit tired. And crucially, it doesn't get better with sleep. Happy to answer any questions you might have.

@HSolar

3 ай бұрын

People are dying because of it!! one in Holland on Saturday with euthanasia she couldn't live/hold on any longer RIP, others like me with it (sometimes genetics increase risks in families so more than 1 in family can be horrendous) please hold on their are good Drs/researchers more than ever determined to get better treatments maybe one day cure as they are finally getting more funding & can't be swept under the carpet any longer as there's millions of us now with damaged lives and same for LC. Please delete your own comment made due to ignorance.

@EndersWorlds

3 ай бұрын

Pretty sure people don't die from laziness, and if you'd met the average ME patient you would never keep your belief, since the majority of patients are incredibly motivated people. You think that someone training for a marathon and with a successful job they love and earns them a good income is lazy? Maybe check some actual facts. Here's a list of symptoms that people with ME/CFS have to live with: fatigue, joint pain, muscle pain, flu like feelings (imagine the worst bout of flu you've ever had and triple it), brain fog and memory problems, digestive system disruption-which can be severe enough to cause gastroparesis (you're digestive system basically shuts down), POTS (super fast Heartrate on standing and light-headedness), body temperature control issues, reduced cerebral blood flow has been found (less oxygen to the brain), body wide inflammation, And let's not forget the first and biggest symptom of all - Post Exertional Malaise! This is a giant increase in all symptoms and intense feeling of extreme unwellness that is brought on by physical or cognitive activity - depending on how sick you are this could be as little as turning over in bed to trigger it, or if mild ME could be walking for a few short minutes. It lasts for at least a couple of weeks, and if you trigger it too often, or too much in one go it will permanently reduce your level of physical functioning, leaving you sicker than you were before - which is often how people end up so sick that it kills them. Vast amounts of research show what's happening in the body during all this, and proves that this is a real, physical condition, that is dangerous and horrific to live with.

@definitlynotbenlente7671

3 ай бұрын

​@@EndersWorldsit is the same with most medic conditions i have had people tell me to take a diet to fix my genetic condition