Ford did something similar about a year ago. My truck lost about 1 MPG after the update and used more DEF. recently lost my emissions equipment in a boating accident.

@J.Young808

5 ай бұрын

Man those boat ramps sure are brutal. 😂

@stevenbrooks1243

5 ай бұрын

Lol hate when that happens

@michaelcopeland8985

5 ай бұрын

I hope the boat is ok?

@ineedapharmists

5 ай бұрын

If they find out, you're going to pay for an entire system or get your truck crushed. Aint worth deleting.

@michaelcopeland8985

5 ай бұрын

@ineedapharmists depending where you live, you will never be checked. And without asking, I bet he kept everything

A dyno test before and after would be great, too.

@v8s4ever36

5 ай бұрын

Yes, the best comparison would be before and after tests on the same dyno.

@wadebrewer7212

5 ай бұрын

Well....what about torque limiting. These trucks are garbage with the torque management. I dont know that you would even see a change. I have a 22 with the "little cummins" Once upon a time I had a Ford 6.0....it was an 05 for the F6 trans and from a dig that truck would spank my 22....even though the Cummings is rated much higher. The 0-60 on HO VS standard....is almost identical despite the HO having another 200 lb/ft and more HP. I don't think you will even see this recall in daily commenting for performance. Living with the truck pulling a service trailer and a heavy bed service box you probably will....thst requires all the beans.

@ryanbernard89

5 ай бұрын

Tq management affects 1st-2nd I think maybe 3rd but the 1:1 ratio with 3:73 gears in ram is 4th gear think it would be fine on the dyno just lock it in 4th

@user-ln7of9gs4s

5 ай бұрын

@@wadebrewer7212it got spanked because you call it a Cummings.

@wadebrewer7212

5 ай бұрын

@user-ln7of9gs4s my bad. I dont proof reed...its youtube and far from the most important thing in my life

Glad they haven’t given a date yet. Keeps my favorite TFL truck in the fleet longer.😊

@JonBecker81

5 ай бұрын

I’m sure they’ll take it to the local dealer and will have the TFL truck in and out fast. They don’t want to be messing around with a company who has a huge KZread and media presence. Everyone else, good luck to you.

Anxious to see part 2, gents. 🙂

Hey TFL - can you please do a dyno test before/after as well? That would likely be the most conclusive - Thanks for doing these tests!!

@Dusdaddy

5 ай бұрын

2019-2023 will not be recalled according to the EPA.

@stinkymcstinkerton1854

5 ай бұрын

Kori @Pppei is doing testing and data collection before and after the recall with an emissions engineer to see the difference. They should be able to determine the problem as well as the result. This happens in February. Hopefully late Feb or early March we will know exactly transpired. So far, no one I’ve seen posted an impact

@stinkymcstinkerton1854

5 ай бұрын

@@Dusdaddyis that new information? I haven’t received a notice….yet

@Dusdaddy

5 ай бұрын

@@stinkymcstinkerton1854 Nothing new, it's right on the EPA's website and repeated on the CARB website. Nobody said the 2019-2023 were getting recalled except the KZreadrs. They even stated why, nothing to fix.

@stinkymcstinkerton1854

5 ай бұрын

@@DusdaddyI looked it up after shortly after I posted . My first alert was from this channel. . I was relieved to read Gen 5 not included. I just got done dealing with stellantis on an ecodiesel. Gen 4. It’s wasn’t easy… Odd they’re testing the 22

Dyno the motor!

I had the ECM update done two weeks ago and the only noticeable difference is DEF usage did increase. Power, performance and mileage don’t appear to be affected at this time.

@edwardpeters4700

5 ай бұрын

With it being a NOx related issue, your experience 100% makes sense. DEF is primarily used to reduce NOx emissions. With all of the big players using DEF, I would be curious if pre-update cummins trucks use less DEF than their Powerstroke or Duramax counterparts (same years).

@sirblood

5 ай бұрын

@@edwardpeters4700i’m very curious about this too. I wonder if there’s a slightly dated video comparing DEF consumption between Duramax, power stroke and Cummins

@stevenwescott1422

5 ай бұрын

For what it’s worth my 2020 duramax goes approximately 6k on a 2.5 gallon jug of def

@tangydiesel1886

5 ай бұрын

You have an idea about how much? Our 15 ram 3500 cab and chassis uses about 2.5 gallons per 50 gallons of fuel. But its worked pretty hard.

@anthonyrider9190

5 ай бұрын

@@stevenwescott1422 I just filled this past Friday, will see what the average is now.

If Cummins does a recall why do they not recall the heating plate bolt! Thank you for the video guys!

@carltuckerson7718

5 ай бұрын

They did.

@petermandel2552

5 ай бұрын

Relay was recalled for staying on and melting the bolt insulator. But the killer bolt and insulator is still there waiting to weaken from years of cycling. Wiggle test still applies.

Great initial test guys! I had an emissions recall on my f250 and didn't see any changes after pcm flash. Hopefully it's the same for you!

@kevinvanlohuizen2709

5 ай бұрын

Do you think Ford has been "cheating" too and trying to fix it before they get caught?

@TFL please find a friend shop to do a dyno test before and after. It would be very telling and make for great content

This is probably one of the best most informative video you can make to test all of these changes I can’t wait for results.

When is the video of after the recall going to come out?

@kellyabercrombie9769

5 ай бұрын

I’m here looking for the answer to the same question.

For all y’all truck owners in California that have to deal with this, I raise my glass to you for putting up with these kinds of setbacks. 🍻

@jimjones-pz1tt

5 ай бұрын

I raise my glass to the Californians stupid enough to still be in California.

That’s awesome that y’all are setting a current reference point. This will help to identify where the changes were made. Hopefully this update won’t neuter the Cummins like they did the ecodiesel, that truck cold would have no power from a standstill and once you hit 2k rpm it’s finally had some power

@Dusdaddy

5 ай бұрын

Except their truck won't be recalled according to the EPA. Only the 2013-2018 will.

I'm betting power loss and fuel economy loss after the recall....

@NWI_Steel

5 ай бұрын

And increased DEF usage lol

@noneyabizz8337

5 ай бұрын

Reliability loss

@craigquann

5 ай бұрын

DEF usage will drop as that's what's injected to control NOx. Fuel economy is DEFINITELY going to take a hit as it will need to run richer with more EGR to reduce combustion temps. Power may be ok as these engines have lots of tuning left on the table to compensate. And given it's not a bad as Volkswagen, it's probably not going to be as drastic. But what do I really know.

@lagoonrd4173

5 ай бұрын

💯. … had semi truck go in for maintenance and get program updates… lower power settings, drank more fuel and was gutless

@gebertg

5 ай бұрын

No power loss. This was discovered way back in 2019. The 2019s got the update years ago with recall VB6, the 2020+ already have the updated software from the factory and this includes the power increase in 2021. 2013-2018 are now getting it in the mail.

Thank you guys for really taking this seriously, can’t wait for the follow up video 👍🤗🤗

I really like your testing procedures, my only thing is I would like to have seen the towing and empty mpg loops been the same loop. Not that it would really effect anything just more of a personal preference. The only other thing I could think of for testing would be to see if you could book a Dyno appointment and get real world horsepower and torque numbers before and after recall. That being said I love the persision and care yall are taking in doing the before and after testing

I just got my recall yesterday. I’m waiting for your next video before I do anything. Thanks for doing all of this testing. You guys rock.

@Dusdaddy

5 ай бұрын

What year truck? Curious because the EPA says the TFL truck, 2022, will not be part of the recall.

I work at a dodge dealer. The recall is a 67A and its been out since November

@gebertg

5 ай бұрын

Only for 2013-2018. 2019 had VB6 and 2020+ came with the update from the factory.

@allan1062

5 ай бұрын

for 2013-2021 or all engines to 2024?

@crazyrunner33

5 ай бұрын

Question. Why is Ram issuing this for so many trucks when the EPA says only certain 2019 trucks and 2013-2015 trucks that didn't receive S87 needs it. And for trucks that receive 67A without being on the EPA list, do they still get the extended warranty?

I would recommend everyone ignore the recall

@TFLtruck

5 ай бұрын

Except, CARB states will require this recall for registration renewal. Although, the EPA will allow up to three years to take care of 85% of all these truck recalls.

wow you guys are real heroes for doing this

Thanks for the info

Great review, waiting for the followi-up post recall. And rocking the Rush shirt... even better!

Great informational video as always, guys. This will be super beneficial to Cummins owners to help them understand what this recall is going to mean for their truck's performance.

Love you guys for doing this.

Love that I got a banks pedal commander add during this. Don’t have a diesel yet but lovebanks

Very well put together video guys!

@TFLtruck

5 ай бұрын

Thank you for the kind words.

Love the sound of that Cummins

@TFLtruck

5 ай бұрын

Yes. Sounds great!

The fuel consumption towing that ute is pretty impressive especially allowing for elevation, weight and lack of aero. In 2014 I hired a new (about 1600miles on clock) E350 RV with the 5.4 V8 petrol engine, a good day was 10mpg more often 7mpg at interstate speeds. For contrast towing a full height caravan around Australia with a 2.8 litre VM diesel powered Colorado at 100k mostly 5th gear, 6th in no wind / following wind, uses 17 l / 100 (13.5 mpg) most times, 20 l / 100 (11.5 mpg) into a sandstorm. Just goes to show diesel is the berries for towing. I keep hearing good things about the 6.7 litre Ram and I think Andre's towing test figures confirm that.

I didn’t notice any changes after the VB6 recall on my 2019. Hopefully for the later models, the recall’s impact to vehicle performance is unnoticeable.

@mddunlap03

5 ай бұрын

-3 mpg ftw

@Dusdaddy

5 ай бұрын

The VB6 is not the recall for the Cummins fine. 67A is the recall.

Good info.

For reference, I tracked DEF usage on a 2022 Ram with the identical engine, I did a 10k mile trip towing a trailer, DEF worked out to 2.4% of fuel burned.

Hi great videos guys, thanks 4 doing these tests. what about doing the test for the two engines, regular and high output. thanks

I love the inclusion of the banks data monster! Great engineering and data analysis

A dyno session would have answered all these items with accuracy

I own a 2014 VW Touareg TDI and the diesel “fix” primarily affected cold start smoothness and the amount of DEF it uses. MPG’s may have dropped by 1-2 mpg, but that could as much be related to typical aging and I feel no real power difference (using my butt dyno). I’m guessing the Cummins fix will be similar.

@TheNotimprezed

5 ай бұрын

The fix ruined my 2015. Lost over 1 second 0-60, reduced mpg and the transmission tuning was unsafe and undriveable. Then taking off from a stop you could literally count 1 one-thousand 2 one-thousand 3 one-thousand and then the car would begin to pull away. Pre fix it would run a low 7 second 0-60 with brake boost and high 7s with no brake boost. The quickest it ever ran post fix was 8.6 seconds and if you didn't brake boost it was nearly 11 seconds. Tune and TCM flash are required for those tdi.

My prediction will be more DEF use and more regen over time as the DPF gets more soot from the EGR in "normal" operating mode. That would result in very little power change but some extra fuel and DEF use. Once the DPF needs more regen then fuel economy will drop some. Long term there will be the EGR cooler blockage and coking of the intake valves.

@workisfun...2438

5 ай бұрын

Agreed

@tomprovenza7857

5 ай бұрын

Agreed

@theantiqueactionfigure

5 ай бұрын

The few test out the show zero power and fuel economy change. None that I've seen have tested def usage. TFL will be the bottom line. I'm behind the blue curtain in Kommiefornia so the update will be mandatory. My 2018 Limited Tungtsen Edition only has 57,000 miles on it so it's not leaving the fold anytime soon. Never say never though.

@mddunlap03

5 ай бұрын

​@@theantiqueactionfigurehave not seen a single dyno pull before and after

@joshausterlitz3798

5 ай бұрын

This is pretty much what happened to my 2015 jetta TDI, was getting like 45 -48MPG, after the recall it got 37 - 40MPG, they said it would be like 2MPG drop but it was actually like 6 -8MPG. Didn't make since anymore having it with the price of diesel to gas, looked into what it would be to delete it and after that got 50 - 53MPG.

I have a 2019 Cummins ram 2500 I bought new. I went on line to check the recall and it had been done a year ago when they replaced my CP-4 fuel pump. I think they knew this was coming for a long time.

My truck is on the hit list. I'm not doing the recall until I know more about it. So... looking forward to the next video. In the meantime, I wonder if anyone has done an emissions test before and after. I can certainly imagine a case where the fix causes more emissions on the test and possibly fail to pass.

With diesel you need to do the 30 second refill a number of times. The diesel foams and turns off the nozzle. So it takes more times to get the tank "full". Sure are going light on towing.

Hey Always look forward to your tutorials and real world testing. I see you use Banks products The Ram I think is doing very well. Let’s see what changes. Excellent tutorial

Seriously when are you gonna follow up on this?

Definitely need dyno numbers pre/post.

Any idea when part 2 will be released? What you’re doing is greatly appreciated.

According to a pdf from the California dept of justice the recall is for 13-19 trucks. According to the document cummins will fix the trucks (sotware update) and provide an extended emission warranty. 10 year or 120k miles from initial purchase or 4 year 48k which ever is greater. On 13-18 the warranty will cover def and scr system. 19 covers the same but adds EGR. There is nothing listed for 2020 to current so either their not eecalling those or there is a seperate recall coming. Appreciate the video but it might be for nothing. Do a search for consent decree 1/10/2024 and look for the California dept of justice. It a large doc but explains everything pretty well.

@tikkin11

5 ай бұрын

Does this extended warranty cover trucks registered outside CA? The def/scr system should include the dpf as well.

@gregfurr6351

5 ай бұрын

According to what I've seen the warranty will be for every truck that has the recall performed no matter where the truck resides. In the list of parts covered I did not see anything about the DPF

@Itsa_Mea

5 ай бұрын

Exactly! The TFL truck isn't even getting the "update".

Finally you guys went the best, banks!

Had the 67A recall done last week. I have no idea what the PCM update involves but I can tell the difference in unloaded performance. The truck has regened twice in 150 miles of mixed highway and city. Also, the truck feels like it’s not running as free as it used to, especially at lower RPM’s and top gear acceleration. So far it looks like I’ve lost about 2 mpg’s or so DEF usage still to be determined but I would imagine that it will increase. Not too terrible but still a bummer. Had to do the recall for CA registration.

@nomadbiker4040

5 ай бұрын

Hope you can escape CA for the USA

Any new updates on part 2 after the recall guys?

3 years doesn't matter as it's already taken care of. The issue was discovered in 2019. They immediately sent recall VB6 for the 2019 trucks. The 2020+ trucks already have the updated software, and that includes the power increase in 2021. 2013-2018 trucks are now receiving the recall in the mail.

@joshwenning6690

5 ай бұрын

I have a 2022 and was notified of the recall.

Nice!!

Wow this is a fantastic baseline measurement.

I think the best outcome for this situation is for them to increase the DEF usage. This won’t affect the power or fuel economy, and it will be the least noticeable change to meet the ridiculous emissions standards. As a truck driver the DEF usage was increased a few years ago, and I’ve had a truck with a 2020 Cummins X15, and currently a 2024 DD15 and both consume DEF at a rate of between 150 mpg-200 mpg. Even though they use a ton of DEF the fuel mileage is better, the power is better, there are fewer regens, and the engine is not suffocated as much with EGR as compared to trucks between 2007-2017. The emissions standards have always been slightly more stringent with commercial vehicles than with private use vehicles, but what the commercial trucks have now and what they’re going to get in the future will eventually be added to personal diesel trucks. It’s absurd that California is allowed to have the power to set emissions regulations throughout the entire country.

Super tough to make my Cummins use more DEF, since my 2018 Cummins had no DEF system period.

I'd like my 3rd taillight recalled. Did the replacement myself and still leaking will try again.. Very much like my 2014 2500 diesel, 70,000 miles of mostly all pulling fifth wheel 13,000 lbs "empty" toy hauler..

Can't wait for the results of the post-recall test! At the beginning of the video, I was yelling "DEF consumption please", but, it looks like the Banks Telemetry system records that as well. This "before-after" test should give a good "real world" result. This should be an easy recall, because there are no parts involved. They just re-flash the ECU, and can probably do it while you wait.

Based on Andre's description of the recall, the number of vehicles and the model years that will first be addressed (2013-2018) it sounds like it might be quite a long time before TFL's truck gets the work done.

@jimjones-pz1tt

5 ай бұрын

Don't worry, Roman won't sell it before January 2027!🤣🤣🤣

@Itsa_Mea

5 ай бұрын

If at all. It may already have the update.

Great video...be interested in seeing if there is a difference after the recall...BTW what GPS app are you using?

Were did you guys get the fender flairs for your truck they look really good

Why would you take it for this recall??? No one is saying you have to do it.

@TheRangerman00

5 ай бұрын

Because people are idiots

Thanks for doing this

Mine already uses twice as much def as my power stroke did, so let’s hope that don’t get worse, I’m gonna be one of the the last ones to get mine done, that’s for sure😂

I think the government should have to pay for any work regarding emissions out of warranty, they're the ones mandating that it be installed

Make sure all of your tests are conducted the same way before and after the recall. There are 13 different modes based off of scr outlet temp, ect, and many others. Meaning if you let the truck idle, shut it off, drive differently the scr temp won’t let the truck go to the certain map that it might have been in the previous test. All of these modes have different SOI timing which could increase or decrease hp output and directly affect mpg, def usage etc.

@jimjones-pz1tt

5 ай бұрын

Including the acceleration tests and idling in the MPG loop was gENiuS!

Thanks guys…

If you did the CP3 recall they did an ECU reflash and the results after the recall killed my MPG and my DEF consumption is through the roof. Hard to tell if I lost any other drivability issues as I didn't think the reflash would make such a drastic difference to my MPG and DEF...I was getting almost 18 MPG (Its a 2019 3500 SRW and I run 37s, Carli "leveling" kit, I have an FWC camper on it all the time and always have the truck loaded with offroad and recovery gear)...not I get 13 ish MPG. I have not changed my driving habits or style in any way. So...If that recall was done on your test truck, Ram may have already put the lower MPG/Higher DEF tune in it. I know Ram knew about this potential EPA fine and I think they started adding the anticipated changes into ECU flashes. It would be nice to compare a truck that has had NO recalls done (that required an ECU reflash) to a post EPA recall (whatever they are calling that recall/reflash).

Love the content . Love the real road testing. And I’m Lovin’ it….don’t know why I’m hungry for McDonald’s 😂

I'll wait for part two.

@jimjones-pz1tt

5 ай бұрын

You might have to wait until January 2027.

Hahahaha no judgement Nathan, I’ve done the whole 3,2,1 go thing a few times in my life 😂

Love How the 2023 Chevy Colorado looks like The Fast Lane Truck

I did hear from a buddy said his truck used a little more def but not a big amount but everything else was the same .

You guys are awesome as always, and excellent episode!!!😁

Great test. Hope the recall doesn’t hurt performance.

@TheRangerman00

5 ай бұрын

We know it’s going to

Interesting bout same as my 6.6 gas 2500 chev custom. Towing 14.5 tho lbs.loaded trailor.

Thanks for the doing this, we all know the manufacturer will be not forthright with the performance downgrade numbers after the recall.

So where is the final test!!?? Will there be one?

Excellent presentation. Thank you. You know that it will not end with positive results for the owners. As with the Ford overstating the 7.3 horsepower, the manufactures just want to get your money and then do damage control after the fact if needed. With the Tesla Cybertruck, many of the promised features are "disabled" and not "completed" yet. Tesla actually wants you to buy a "unfinished" truck and just wait around for the features to be finished. Tesla has been doing this more often lately. Crazy to see missing promises for the Model S just now finally being available to customers after years of waiting. Just seems to be standard operating procedures now.

@R.Sole88109

5 ай бұрын

Or like computer games then they give you a patch for the mistakes in the game that a simple play would find!

It’s starting boys

Good test. And good news for the owners on the '22, but likely not what you want to hear, but your '22 is not eligible for the recall. The EPA said the recall is not coming to the 22 because it already meets the emission requirements.

Others already have the recall done and saying they do not notice any difference at all. I'm not worried about it

Ram 2500 & 3500 models built after 10/1/2019 are not affected and will not be recalled. Cummins has to pay a fine for not reporting the software scheme used on these years but the emissions fully comply with EPA regulations. This is why Cummins will not admit guilt.

Have guy tried to see if Rams vin check tow numbers site works, and if they low you rating further?

Does the ecm get locked after the update? ie no more tuning

If you have no idea when your truck will be repaired due to recall. Why are you testing now, conditions will most likely be completely different when the time comes for your recall? Could be when fuel type changes take place, temperatures and weather conditions are different invalidating this testing.

@jimjones-pz1tt

5 ай бұрын

Because they're not very smart. I'll bet Roman sells the truck before he gets the recall notice. He ain't gonna keep it until January 2027!

Are you guys also able to do before and after dyno tests? I noticed a massive change in that on my wife's 2015 vw golf trip after the recall.

We are waiting for the after recall to see if or when we'll have it done on our Cummins. Any update?

When are we going to see the sequel to this video with the post update results on the truck?

What front bumper and winch system do you have installed on the truck? Thanks

Put this in your statement of issues with Ram 350 ldiesel HO w Asian trans. I bought a 2022 ram 3500 high output with Asian trans. Super nice truck. It has 2000 miles in it and had a recall with the high current relay. I never got the recall done as the dealers wanted me to leave the truck for several days and would not give me a time frame for completing the work. I only have one vehicle. The truck was great at first but at 9000 miles it started to get really slow responding to throttle input. I felt that this truck had issues but ultimately I trans it for a 1500 Ram limited as it we too costly and not practical for a daily driver by myself. The dealer want to charge me $500 for fuel filter change that was absolutely ridiculous.

@gebertg

5 ай бұрын

Took the dealer 20 minutes to replace the relay on my 22 HO. Might want to find a different dealer...

Ram has done hundreds of thousands of this recall already under VB6...mine unknowingly last March, since the news was not out yet. Bullshit excuse from the dealer that it was tied to my valve body recall and cp3 replacement. I've only noticed that the regen happens a hell of a lot more. Not so sure about excessive def use. Certainly no power loss but the mpg goes to shit thanks to regeneration every 100 miles. Sorta pissed off but my $80k 2019 Ram is still a thing of beauty.

They should do tests before and after recall and then deleted 😂

Everyone who deleted their Cummins and they’re getting calls to bring it in for the recall- “well sh*t”. 😂 Edit: I guess if you don’t live in a state that does emissions checks then you don’t have to worry about the recall. Those are the states where people delete. Seems like half of the used HD diesels on FB Marketplace where I live have “deleted” in the description.

The recall is just a recalibration, there is/was no defeat device. A friend at Cummin’s said the epa has not stated why they were being sued. Other diesel manufacturers don’t use the sensors that Ram decided to no longer to use. Ford and GM diesel emissions devices are no different than the rams.

@jeffs2809

5 ай бұрын

“Defeat device” is EPA speak for software or hardware that lets the engine produce emissions over permitted limits. Manufacturers are allowed to write software routines to do that to protect the engine or dpf/ SCR system, those routines just have to be disclosed & justified to the epa. If the manufacturer didn’t disclose that routine for whatever reason, the epa could call that a “defeat device”.

Hey guys. It would be interesting to see a dyno comparison for this. Real numbers don't lie.

You should be testing a 2013 through 2018 model year Truck! Those are the years that are presently affected with recall 67A That have been sent out.

@location_florida 0 seconds ago I hate to break it to you mpg guys but I'm getting 19 city and 25+ highway in my 99 super duty 7.3 tuned to 400hp lifted with 33. Don't get me wrong, I like Cummins. Cummins 6bt (5.9) and the international 444 (7.3) are the best engines ever put in light trucks. To give some comparison I get 6-7.5 mpg in my 2020 Kenworth with a 450hp Cummins x15 pulling 70k, it still has def right now. Have not got it deleted yet. You will pick up more mpg by deleting the def on any engine. First thing to do to any modern diesel is to delete the def and turn off egr. You will get more mpg and be WAY more reliable

Somebody should partner up with Gale Banks to do the testing before and after the recall. His crew has the expertise and equipment to really tell what has happened before and after.

@21:00 - what GPS program is that? I really like the screen layout. Edit - never mind. It's called "Altimeter GPS+ (Speedometer)".

Another channel/guy did this and the performance didn't change when he towed across the same route he takes his truck.

You should download the current map off the truck so when you take it in for a recall you can see the difference

You guys should do a Dino test Before & After 2.

@jimjones-pz1tt

5 ай бұрын

Dinos are extinct.