Do you think Anne’s marriage to Richard was a love match or a strategic union? Let me know below and remember to check out my Patreon page at www.patreon.com/historycalling and my Amazon storefront at www.amazon.com/shop/historycalling

@edithengel2284

11 ай бұрын

I suppose it's possible that it could have been both, or perhaps a marriage where affection added attraction to a strategic choice.

@hell8255

11 ай бұрын

I think both. They basically grew up together and I think there would have been obvious affection in some way. But I have to say I agree if it wasn't for the money and lands that he wouldn't have looked twice at her. Saying that it was mutually beneficial for the both, I think if they weren't in love at first that love grew as time went on.

@Meine.Postma

11 ай бұрын

Strategic probably

@gidge9846

11 ай бұрын

I think strategic. As far as I know, he had two illegitimate children, but they were born before his marriage, and I dont recall anything said about mistresses or such. He probably wanted to take a different stance to his brother, who was known as a licentious man, especially if he was already suspected of killing his nephews. He seemed to be a very calculating man.

@alicejohnson8751

10 ай бұрын

When I watched the White Princess I thought it was a love match. But on reflection I think it was a strategic alliance, mainly because they only had one child. I think they probably liked or were comfortable with each other and so Richard thought marriage would be a good idea to inherit her wealth and because they knew each other quite well and he knew they would be able to get along. But I think if it was a love match they would have had more than the one child over the course of their marriage which seemed to be 10 years or so

No hate to Henry, Henry, Henry, Richard, Edward, Edward and Edward (lol) but I always think the women of the Wars of the Roses were far more interesting than the men. Margaret Beaufort is one of my favourite historical figures and Elizabeth of York and her mother are up there with her. I have to add Anne to my list!

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Yes, Lady Margaret Beaufort is one of my favourites too. Aren't all the names just ridiculous?! It's so hard to keep track sometimes.

@emilybarclay8831

11 ай бұрын

@@HistoryCalling they really needed a book of baby names that went beyond Henry, Edward, Richard, John, Margaret and Elizabeth lol

@ragingdevi

11 ай бұрын

Having the same names over and over made me so confused when I took a Medieval History of England class (I'm not good with dates, but it's easy for me to remember what happened during a particular reign), that I used the Horrible Histories English monarchs song so I could get through it lol

@emilybarclay8831

11 ай бұрын

@@ragingdevi I mean I AM English and I did go to school with about 4 Harrys 3 Louises, 5 Toms and 3 Sophies in one year lol

@ragingdevi

11 ай бұрын

@@emilybarclay8831 Oh my god 🤣🤣🤣 I knew 7 Matthews and 8 Michaels at one point in hs, so Americans aren't much better lol

I believe Anne and Richard loved each other. Anne was a pawn in her father's ambitions. A lot of what I've read makes me believe this. Historical writers are too harsh on her and her sister, Isabel.

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

I definitely hope there was genuine affection there. I agree with you that both women seem very much like pawns, but then again I guess that was just power for course in the that era for ladies of their rank.

@gillsinclair6927

11 ай бұрын

@@HistoryCalling Without any doubt. Such was the times. I also think that Anne was the strongest of the women at the centre of the Cousins War.

@laurenharris4591

10 ай бұрын

I totally agree with you

I would love to hear more about Anne’s mother, Anne Beauchamp. I can’t believe she was declared dead so George and Richard could divide her estate. If I remember correctly she outlived her husband, her daughters and both son in law. The only thing I really remember about her is her life seemed to plagued by disputes over her estate. Winning the Warwick earldom from her three older sisters and then losing her estate to her daughters and sons in law. That poor woman seemed to be at the whim of the men in her life. Mostly used for her inheritance.

@Dragonomics42

6 ай бұрын

Which was not unusual for noblewomen at the time.

@birdfriday

Ай бұрын

Sons in law

@Kenzalina_

Ай бұрын

@@birdfriday Yep! It’s a typo. I’ll fix it.

@nbenefiel

Ай бұрын

Actually, she wasn’t declared dead. As her husband was declared a traitor for fighting for Henry VI, she was under attainder. Richard gave her an estate and a generous stipend. He and Anne were said to visit her frequentlyRichard was one of the wealthiest men in England. He didn’t need Anne’s money. George was a total spendthrift. He needed every penny he could get. Richard was extremely generous, especially to women. He also gave land and a generous stipend to Elizabeth Woodville, of which Henry Tudor stripped her.

@edithengel2284

Ай бұрын

@@nbenefiel She actually was declared as if dead. Her sons-in-law were to "enjoy in the right of their said wives all the honours, lordships, castles, towns, manors, lands, tenements, liberties, franchises, possessions and hereditaments which did or do belong to the said Anne, Countess of Warwick,…in the same manner and form as if the said countess were now naturally dead."

There’s a note for supplies from Richard that requests silk for his favorite consort Anne and they both have their names in a prayer book. They had separate bedrooms, but were recorded as sleeping in the same room all but in the last three months on doctors orders. He didn’t leave the castle, but for 11 days and I think even never returned to that castle. He did have her conducting court while he was away and speaking on his behalf.

@humgap

Ай бұрын

What are your sources for all this? (I'm genuinely curious).

I'm so curious about Anne Neville, it's so disappointing that almost no evidence survives about her life. I would really like to know more on her thoughts and feelings.

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Yes, I would love some personal letters or a diary as well, but I suppose we're fortunate to know what we do, given how long ago it all happened.

@sdl1ishappy

10 ай бұрын

There is a record of Richard giving her a lion as a pet after she became queen and her sending it out to entertain the crowds in London. This makes me think she might have been more vivacious than the passive waif image. It was probably Edward IV's lion before he died...but somehow Richard giving it to her says something.

@susanmccormick6022

10 ай бұрын

Agreed.Anne intregues me.And Richard is my fav king.

@dianetheisen8664

10 ай бұрын

@@susanmccormick6022 Agreed. I really don't believe he had his 2️⃣ nephews killed either.👑

@leah8526

10 ай бұрын

Read "The Kingmakers Daughter" by Philippa Gregory.❤

The Wars of the Roses period is so complicated you could make a decade long soap opera out of it and still have plenty of material left over!

My favorite little detail about Anne is that when she became queen, Richard gave her a pet lion and she used to send it to entertain crowds in London.

@perniciouspete4986

10 ай бұрын

Yes, the people used to bring stray dogs and cats for the lion to kill and eat. Seriously.

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

I missed that! I wish I'd included it.

@melissanurczynski5920

10 ай бұрын

@@perniciouspete4986 The middle ages were hard core, weren't they?

@melissanurczynski5920

10 ай бұрын

@@HistoryCalling I just want to know if she was allowed to personally pet the murder kitty and how that would work.

@susanmccormick6022

10 ай бұрын

​@@perniciouspete4986don't remind me!!!

I am IN LOVE with this series! I’ve had to research for days sometimes to find the information you provide on the women of the wars of the roses. Incredible job - thank you for making their stories more available ❤

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Thank you so much. I think you'll like next week's video too! 😉

@obcl8569

11 ай бұрын

@@HistoryCalling I'm excited! Thank you!!

@SnazzyZee

10 ай бұрын

Well you are very uninformed

Wife and I went on a self directed castle tour back in 2022 and Warwick castle was visually and historically just about the coolest place we visited.

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

I was there last year too! It's very expensive, but a brilliant day out if you really put in the whole day there and don't do it very often.

@alexrafe2590

10 ай бұрын

@@HistoryCallingWarwick Castle made a big impression on my father and stepmother too. They went to England and Germany for their honeymoon, and the Castle was one of the places that stood out for them on that trip. Some years later I moved to England, but while I lived there for 24 years and visited practically every corner of Britain, I never got to Warwickshire or the area around there like Stratford-upon-Avon. Birmingham is about the closest I ever reached. Still there’s so much to see there I’m determined to get there one day. Anyway I’ve greatly enjoyed all the videos you’ve been doing on this period in English history. I’ve always been fascinated by the Wars of the Roses and your videos have filled in so much information that I hadn’t yet discovered. Thank you.

@susanmccormick6022

10 ай бұрын

The castle is awesome.And I bet the servants were the fittest in the county,judging by all those steps!

@alexrafe2590

10 ай бұрын

@@susanmccormick6022 yes they say step climbing is one of the best forms of exercise and burning calories.

I am a descendant of Richard Neville. My grandfather was deeply committed to confirming our genealogy and was able to trace our family back. Loved this video!

@LindaMeade

10 ай бұрын

Then you are inevitably a descendant of his daughter Isabel and son-in-law George Plantagenet, Duke of Clarence. Only their daughter Margaret Plantagenet, Countess of Salisbury and her husband Richard Pole had any descendants to survive into adulthood.

What’s most notable to me is how queen Anne Neville’s voice is stifled throughout her entire life. How it’s very evident that women were of such less value that for large chunks of her life, we have no information, yet she reached the highest level of royal power that can be achieved by a woman. It’s striking. We don’t know her thoughts or feelings about anything; it’s all projection.

@happycommuter3523

10 ай бұрын

True! And it’s possible that anything she wrote, for example, was lost or deliberately destroyed after Bosworth. The Tudors had a vested interest in making Richard as evil as possible, so any evidence that he was, e.g., a loving husband would have to be suppressed.

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

Yes, it is tragic that we can't reconstruct her life using her own words and it makes her very difficult to study. I did the video because people are interested in her and I wanted to share what we do know about her, but she's sadly not a great subject to try to do a bio on because of the lack of evidence. :-(

The amount of grief these women endured was monstrous. So many children died young, or were stillborn, and royal women were expected to simply get on with it, and make more babies.

@susanlett9632

13 күн бұрын

Think about how much worse life was for peasants

I find it so intresting how tenuous the line of succession really is ... not enough heirs creates civil war. however TOO many heirs results in the same. Power is such a funny thing but it is THE only thing that mever changes only the ones seeking it. Another amazing upload seriously your research is 2nd to none.

I can feel the Elizabeth Woodville and Richard III side eye from here in Pennsylvania 😂

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

😂😂😂

I appreciate that you don’t spew crazy hypotheses. Facts and intelligent theories. Which you state which is which. Great upload. Thank you.☺️

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

Thank you. Yes, I'm a big believer in evidence though sometimes people really don't like that if they get an idea in their head and don't want that particular bubble to be burst.

Hi HC, great to watch this again tonight. Thoroughly entertaining thank you. I love the way you go through Edward III’s family line with all its twists, turns and complications. You narrate that superbly. Also “ yes I’m looking at you Elizabeth Woodville” made me laugh. As to your question regarding Anne and Richard’s wedding, I think that it was a strategic union, as most weddings were at that time. Overall another brilliant video deserving of a big 👍🏻.

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Thanks James. I sometimes worry that people will get irritated with me going through the family tree in every one of these videos, but it's mainly for new viewers and also because I think it's so complex that it always bears a little refresher course.

@jamesmackey2120

11 ай бұрын

Also, I feel sympathy for Anne as I think she was used as a pawn in others plans. Though I realise that woman were treated this way in these times. And as you said, she must have thought that she would be a Lancastrian Queen of England and then ended up being a Yorkist Queen. Then she must have been distraught with the death of her son, then the rumour of Richard chasing Elizabeth of York and then dying in “suspicious”circumstances. Such a shame.

@rmelg9892

10 ай бұрын

@@HistoryCalling No I love it! I'm not a new viewer, but I'm a visual learner so seeing the connections makes it easier to remember who is who!

@shelbythe2ds526

10 ай бұрын

Another great one HC!!!

Yes! One of my favourite historical women.

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

A full bio too. There's no part 2, it's all here :-)

@hell8255

11 ай бұрын

​@@HistoryCallingwhoop. I've just finished an Oxford online short course on the war of the roses, I really enjoyed it. I've been doing a few as currently doing my degree in history but it really only goes as far back as 1500 unfortunately and mainly focuses on more recent history which isn't really my interest 😢.

I went looking for her grave in Westminster when I visited years ago. I asked one of the guides if he could help me find her, and he was surprised that an American knew about a queen he hadn't heard of. LOL

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

She is quite tough to find and apparently she's maybe not even buried where the plaque on the wall is.

@hez5160

10 ай бұрын

@@HistoryCalling yeah, but we did find the plaque!

That is the single best explanation of the War of the Roses. Thank you.

I think it was a little of both. Love your intriguing videos. I appreciate how, if you don't know something, you say so.

Another fantasic, well-researched video! I think the marriage between Anne and Richard was principally pragmatic/strategic, however it probably helped that they knew each other somewhat already. This is probably how many arranged marriages worked at the time, which would have comprised most of the marriages of the upper classes then.

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Yes, I suppose they were lucky really that they did know each other a bit. Lots of royal brides and grooms didn't even have that.

This is another really wonderful video. I never get tired of listening to HC describe the origins of the Wars of the Roses. It's like a comforting bedtime story. I really appreciate how the various parts of the family tree are highlighted as you talk about them. Anne Neville may not have lived to be very old, but she experienced a lot during those years. I can only imagine how disconcerting it must have been to be married at age 14 to someone who had been, until very recently, the enemy of her family. Being on that boat with her sister giving birth must have been so frightening. And then being widowed and ending up in the household of her sister/ brother-in-law who were trying to cheat her out of her share of her inheritance. It must have felt like going from one horrible situation to another. Considering all this, it's possible that marrying Richard was something of a relief. She got out of her sister's house and returned to her childhood home. No matter the nature of her relationship with Richard, it's difficult to imagine it being any worse than her first marriage, considering the circumstances. And Richard was someone she actually knew, instead of a hostile stranger, and an ally of her family. No doubt there were good dynastic and financial reasons behind the marriage, but that doesn't mean there couldn't also be genuine affection. I think the question we need to ask is whether the marriage was successful by the standards of the time, and nothing in this video (or what I've read on my own) seems to suggest it wasn't.

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

Thank you. Yes, I hope that in all the dynastic machinations there was room for some affection too and like you I think the second marriage was probably the best option for her given the circumstances she was in. Had it not been for the death of their son and the lack of other children, I think it would have been considered a very successful marriage, but those tragedies obviously weren't Anne and Richard's fault.

@quinbrady

10 ай бұрын

Love your commitment to the humanity of your subjects, HC It’s one of the most valuable things that you do 👏👏 This Irishman/neighbour bloody loves it, anyway.

@quinbrady

10 ай бұрын

She’s truly a wonder.

Never tire of your Wars of the Roses analyses. Learn something new each time (the family trees are particularly helpful). Anne Neville is one of my top five favorite Brit celebs. Your talk here about her is thorough and convincing. Great review, Ty.

I Love Anne I feel like she had it really rough with her dad's ambition. I do think her and Richard III. We're in love they knew Each other for a lot of their lives, so if there wasn't love? It was a mutual respect but I do think it was a loving relationship and I'm happy for her .Thank you Love your channel ❤

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

Thanks Steven. Yes, I hope there was mutual affection there too, even if it wasn't a grand romance.

I appreciate how honest you are regarding the romance in history, from hearing about the darker aspects of George III's relationship with his wife pre and post insanity to you discussing how the practical benefits of Richard III and Anne Neville's marriage likely outweighed any romantic interest. You don't sugarcoat details

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

Yes, I think sometimes people try to project modern sensibilities onto these medieval and early-modern relationships, but that's just not how they were viewed at the time and by the participating parties. These queens won't have expected a great romance in their marriages (though I think Charlotte got it to an extent, before George's illness) and may well have been thinking about the strategic value of the match to themselves too.

I have been looking forward to this video for months. And of course you do not disappoint. Queen Anne Neville is probably my favourite person during the wars of the roses. I find her story fascinating. I do think history/literature has been unfair to her for the most part. As the consort of Richard III she is often either overlooked entirely or viewed as a weak pawn. I don't see how she could have gone through all she did and come out weak. I do think she probably had feelings for Richard, either as a childhood crush or actual love, but the marriage was useful for both of them and as marriage was seen as more of a political and financial union they both would have wanted it. I do find it strange that we have so little evidence of Anne's movements throughout her life. Yes she was a girl but she was the daughter of the kingmaker, then the princess of Wales, the Duchess of Gloucester then Queen. Its frustrating that there is so much about her that we don't know (especially what she looked like). My own theory (and it is just a theory) is that she was very aware of the situation after King Edward IVs death and harboured desires to be Queen so she encouraged Richard and may even have pushed him into claiming the crown. I also think she either knew what happened to the Prince's in the Tower or she is the one who ordered it. As Queen she knew that while the boys lived her son would be in danger just like her first husband was most of his life. It may have helped Richards claim but it also helped Anne secure the throne for her son. This is of course all speculation as there is no real evidence of where Anne was, what she was doing, who she spoke to, and most importantly what she was thinking. She is an unfortunate victim of history who we can only have a small glimpse at. Thank you once again for your amazing videos and for all the work you do and put into them. ❤

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

Thanks Luke. Yes, I wish we could get a better handle on what Anne was really like too. It's especially frustrating to have so little in the way of source material that actually originated with her. 😰

@susanmccormick6022

10 ай бұрын

It's sad there is so little to go on about Anne or Isabelle.But I do not believe she had anything to do with the disappearance of the Princes

@aimeeneely4971

10 ай бұрын

I love your theory. I never looked at it that way. But it really makes a lot of sense. I don't believe Richard has anything do to with it. I always thought it was possible that Margret Beaufort Henry 1 mom was guilty or at the very least knew and condoned it.

@dianetheisen8664

10 ай бұрын

@@aimeeneely4971 There were a few who would have benefited by the death of the 2️⃣ princes 👑.

@aimeeneely4971

10 ай бұрын

@@dianetheisen8664 Very true. I wish they would allow DNA testing on the bones they found in the tower so at least in part put that issue to rest.

I saved a video earlier about henry VI that i was going to watch after yours. Great to have extra context for this time period.

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Ah, well of course I must shamelessly recommend my own video on his very suspicious death too, but you may have had enough of the Wars of the Roses for one day :-)

@Metadasius

11 ай бұрын

Lol, i have already watched it... but i can watch it again 😊

@happycommuter3523

10 ай бұрын

The death of Henry VI is another fantastic HC video!

I don’t think Richard had Anne killed. His northern power base would have been alienated as it was linked to the Nevilles hold in the region. After her death Richard was negotiating a match with a foreign princess and was negotiating a match for his niece to foil Henry Tudor’s plan to marry her.

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

I think it's quite unlikely too, but then again I also think the guy had his nephews killed so I suppose I don't put anything past him.

@sdl1ishappy

10 ай бұрын

No, he openly wept at her funeral. I strongly doubt he killed his nephews either. There were no bodies, and I don't buy he was smart enough to kill them but not smart enough to produce proof of their deaths, which he would have needed. My guess is he stashed them somewhere and would have killed them when they were adults and moved against him. That's what Henry Tudor did with Richard's OTHER nephew, George's son, who Richard treated well and also had a claim to the throne.

@nbenefiel

10 ай бұрын

Anne died of tuberculosis. She probably caught it from Isabel.

@e.z.9965

10 ай бұрын

@@HistoryCalling The guy had his nephews killed? Have you invented Time Machine and saw that with your own eyes? Have you found the bones of them? Can you provide any written pre-Tudor proofs? If not why talk bullsh*t? So I can basically just call you serial killer because rumours from your enemies were made truth 20 years after your death?

@MissMarquise

4 ай бұрын

@@sdl1ishappy He didn't hurt his nephews, only a Tudor would do that

🌹🌹🌹Thank you for your wonderful history videos! I'm inclined to think that Anne and Richard's union was perhaps a little of both ( Love and Strategic Union)..? 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

I think that's probably a good assumption. There's nothing to suggest they hated each other, but in turn would indicate that they had a cordial relationship at the very least.

a complicated tale well told as per usual HC - thanks again - 🛸✨

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Yes, those pesky Plantagenets with all their identical names and habit of marrying their cousins are pretty complex. It's a headache sometimes to keep track of everyone. 😅

@FandersonUfo

11 ай бұрын

@@HistoryCalling - you kept me interested throughout hearing again all those connections so clearly laid out - well done - ✨

You’re right about her life being overshadowed by others of the time, and it’s a shame! she had such an important life, though short. You never disappoint HC!! 👑

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

Yes, it's a pity there's not more known about her :-(

Happy Friday and it is still very hot in Texas. Yesterday it hit over 40 degrees. I loved this video. I first heard of Anne Neville when I saw Richard the 3rd movie based on Shakespeare play. I have to get Starz app to rewatch The White Queen and the White Princess. I did remember that in the White Queen Richard the 3 rd had a relationship with Elizabeth of York, thank goodness that was dramatized and did not occur. You presented Anne as a very interesting person. It is very sad that she died so young but her life was fascinating. Thanks for a great video.

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

There's a heatwave in mainland Europe too, but here in the UK it's barely stopped raining for weeks. I was just saying to someone mere minutes ago, 'I wish the likes of Greece could just give us 10 degrees of their heat, so they'd be 10 degrees cooler and we'd be 10 degrees warmer'. That would solve everything! Anyways, stay cool. 🍨

Another gem, HC. (No pun intended; your precious gems videos are outstanding on their own). I honestly can't guess how Anne and Richard really felt about one another. Dangerous times; anyone would say or do whatever it took to stay safe. Stay safe yourself and see ya next week! 👏👏

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

THANK YOU STEPHEN for your unstinting generosity. Yes, I think I would have been prepared to tell some porkies to stay alive, for sure.

@stephencarrillo5905

11 ай бұрын

@@HistoryCalling 😆🤣 "Porkies" - love it! A cultural bonus! 🙏🏼

I love your videos and could listen to you for hours.

Thank you so much for bringing our attention to the difficult life of this young woman. Life for a wealthy heiress in 15th century England was certainly not agreeable (although if you'll forgive the pun, it WAS a bedding of roses). While I feel terribly sorry for Anne, I feel even worse for her sister. Just think of going into labor on a small boat, under horrible conditions in the stormy channel, and seeing your infant die before you could reach safety. Helplessly watching all those events play out around them must have been terrible for both sisters. It's hard to think that any kind of romantic love entered into her match with Richard, although as you pointed out, there was certainly a kinship of interests, and they certainly grieved together at the loss of their son.

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Yes, life was no joke for them. In many ways they'd have been better off poor (or relatively poor). All we can do is hope that Anne and Richard had some mutual affection for each other, but I certainly agree that the marriage had strategic value for them both.

@annmoore6678

11 ай бұрын

@@HistoryCalling At the very least, they must have understood each other.

@barbarapaige

10 ай бұрын

I can't imagine giving birth without any sanitary resources in a small boat that was in choppy waters. She must have been terrified, and after all that, her child died. those poor women.

@beth7935

10 ай бұрын

One of my convict ancestors gave birth on the ship out to Australia, & she also lost her baby, who was buried at sea- sadly a pretty common fate for babies born on convict ships. So I've thought about how awful that'd be, but I didn't know it'd happened to Isabel too, & I'm very sad for her & her baby & husband.

Great stuff. So complicated though. I don't know how you keep it all straight in your head. Were this a history class and I studiously took copious notes, I still would have failed the final.

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Haha, yes, it is quite tough sometimes. I've done a lot of videos on the Wars of the Roses at this point so the information is all pretty well ingrained, but I remember when I was working on Cecily Neville, Duchess of York, at the start of last year I had an awful time figuring everything out and trying to write it up in a coherent manner.

@nbenefiel

Ай бұрын

What’s really confusing is the number of Edward’s and Richards. It’s hard to keep them straight.

Your family tree walk through really made me realize just how related everyone was. Appreciate the context great video!

Love learning about all the Queens ❤ Thank you 🇺🇸

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Thank you. Only Elizabeth of York left to go :-)

From what I read, originally Richard and Anne’s union was a strategic union. Richard then gree me to care deeply for her. I always felt Richard felt overwhelmed and unhappy in his role as King so having a close partner probably meant the world to him.

@emilybarclay8831

5 ай бұрын

Richard wouldn’t have been king if he hasn’t usurped the throne, so he must have wanted the role pretty hard

@MissMarquise

4 ай бұрын

@ccasey1904 I feel the same

@RedCyanPhotos

4 ай бұрын

⁠​⁠@@emilybarclay8831 but he didn’t userp. I agree with @ccasey1904 I believe much of it may have at least originally been a union of convenience, but I think there was always some love there from childhood and when they got older, they loved each other in a way more than what would be for say cousins or siblings

@emilybarclay8831

4 ай бұрын

@@RedCyanPhotos he imprisoned the rightful heirs and they immediately disappeared after he crowned himself king. While those boys were alive he had no claim. That is by definition usurpation

@nbenefiel

Ай бұрын

@@emilybarclay8831 Richard did not usurp the throne. It was offered him because the marriage of Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville was proven to be invalid and their children were declared illegitimate. Richard did not want to be king. He was perfectly content ruling the North, where he was loved and respected. He hated London and seldom went there. He refused the throne multiple times but there was really no one else. George’s son was under attainder. Edward’s sons were illegitimate. Who else was there?

Wonderful job The Neville’s are an interesting family. Thank you.. I think the marriage benefited both of them❤️

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

You're welcome. Yes, I think they both had a lot to gain from a marriage alliance too, though of course I hope there was some affection there as well.

This series is EVERYTHING. thank you so much for creating it for us to enjoy. 💙

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

Thank you. Make sure you come back next week. I think you'll like that video too :-)

This is the clearest I've ever seen this very complicated genealogy explained. Very well done ❤

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

Thank you so much. It is nightmarish to try to explain it and help people keep up, so I appreciate you saying that you thought I did a good job with it.

I've always been fascinated by the Wars of the Roses 🌹 and The Tudors. Thank you for this wonderful video 📹 about yet another woman if those times. I believe that Anne and Richard loved each other.👑

Richard very vocally denied seeking to marry his niece. And, to the contrary of the rumors, there is documentation that he was looking to arrange a marriage between her and Manoel of Portugal. There is also documentation after the death of Anne of his negotiating a marriage between himself and Joana of Portugal, also born in 1452. I really don't think the rumors about Richard and Elizabeth have any basis in reality at all. I do wish you had brought this up for discussion. We have no way of knowing what Elizabeth or her mothers and sisters believed, as we do not know what happened to the princes and we do not know if they knew.

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

I appreciate and share your interest in Richard and Elizabeth. The reason it didn't come up here is because this video was about Anne, so it simply wasn't relevant as those events occurred after her death. I plan to do a video on Elizabeth though, so it will be discussed there.

@nbenefiel

10 ай бұрын

I find it unlikely that, if she suspected her brother in law had killed her young sons, she would leave sanctuary, entrust her daughters to Richard’s care, and requested her son from her first marriage to return to England and cast himself on Richard’s mercy. Richard gave her land and a generous stipend. Henry VII stripped her of both and had her locked up in a convent for the rest of her life.

@edithengel2284

Ай бұрын

Someone commenting on another HC video mentioned that John Howard was made Duke of Norfolk, in June of 1483, if memory serves. It is hard to understand how Richard could have done this without making Richard of Shrewsbury an unperson, as his being declared illegitimate had no bearing on his ability to hold the title Duke of Norfolk. So I would guess that anyone hearing of Howard's elevation, including presumably Shrewsbury's mother and sisters, would have known that young Richard was no more, or at least in no state to defend his rights.

@melenatorr

Ай бұрын

Thanks! This matter is dealt with in great detail in a biography of John Howard by John Ashdown-Hill, "Richard III's 'Beloved Cousyn'". The tldr explanation is that the bestowal of the title on young Richard by his father was of questionable legality and this was what Richard III had apparently agreed about. Second and fairly important is that in June 1483, both young Edward and young Richard were demonstrably alive; in fact, until June 16, Richard was still with his mother and sisters in Sanctuary.

@edithengel2284

Ай бұрын

@@melenatorr Embarrasingly, I originally wrote "Duke of York" rather than "Norfolk." which is what I meant. Does that change your position at all?

Thank you so much for posting this video, I am just settling down to watch it 😊 There isn't much info on YT about Anne Neville. But from what little I have read I do believe it was a genuine love match between her and Richard ❤ Love History Calling soooo much 😅 xxx

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Thank you. Yes, a lot of what's out there is based on Philippa Gregory's novels which aren't all historically accurate, so I wanted to put out a more factual account of Anne's life.

I feel kind of stupid asking this but googling is getting me nowhere... the stained glass windows in this video and many of your other videos are STUNNING and I would love to know more about the where and who and why behind them!

@happycommuter3523

10 ай бұрын

Yes! I would also love to know more about those windows.

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

They're in Cardiff Castle, but I can't remember when/why and by whom they were put in. I suspect 19th century though.

I've never visited Westminster Abbey, but as I see videos and photos of the vast beautiful structure, but I imagine it is also a vast graveyard underneath. No telling who lies where in many instances but am curious notwithstanding.

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

Oh yes, it really is. I reckon there's barely a square foot of it that doesn't have someone underneath it, or a vault with people in it.

Absolute superb video! I always am so fascinated and learn something new with each visit to the channel. ❤

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

Thank you so much. I'm glad you enjoy the videos.

Yay! I’ve been wanting to learn about her.

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Here she is. All in one video too :-)

Thanks! Thank you for doing this video. I have been waiting eagerly for it. Anne Neville is one of my favourite historical figures.

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

THANK YOU SO MUCH JOY for such a generous donation to the channel. I have a feeling you'll like next week's video too :-)

I love your channel! I found it when I was sick with COVID earlier this year, and I’ve been subscribed ever since! I’d love it if you would do more vids on Welsh queens/kinds and maybe some Ireland royalty as well (if that’s in your wheelhouse) ☺️

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

Thanks Benni. I'd love to do some more Irish history in particular, but sadly those videos rarely do well for me :-( I do have something Welsh-related coming though. I don't want to give too much away as I have problems with people stealing my video ideas, but hopefully you'll know what I mean when you see it :-)

Thanks!

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

THANK YOU SO MUCH NAGISA for such a kind donation to the channel. I hope you enjoyed Anne's story :-)

Loving this channel! Thank you so much for your insightful and well-researched videos ❤

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

You are so welcome. Thank you for watching and commenting :-)

I really appreciate all the research that you do on each episode. As an academic, I love when KZread creators make the effort to be as precise as possible and care about sources. Thank you!

@HistoryCalling

3 ай бұрын

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE DONATION NELLYS and for such a lovely comment. I'm glad you enjoyed the video. Anne was a tricky subject as there's not really that much information available about her, but I tried to bring together what we do know at least.

Excellent! Thanks indeed, well worth a subscription. I do think it probable that Richard and Anne were pretty close, but it was certainly a marriage of convenience from Richard's perspective, so a bit of both. 🌟👍

Excellent video! The depth of your research and your attention to detail makes all of your offerings "must see". Thanks so much!

Hallo! I like Anne tbh, I have a soft spot for her. I just wish there were more sources on her reaction to and involvement in the many key events on her life, such as her (short) relationship with her first husband- who I believe didn’t much like her given that she was the daughter of the kingmaker- or the userpermaker- who essentially kicked his family out of the throne and took away his rightful place as heir…

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Yes, I wish we had more sources created by her. It's always frustrating trying to rebuild someone's life story through second or third hand accounts.

@lfgifu296

11 ай бұрын

@@HistoryCallingeally must be! Second or - worse- third hand sources are almost always tainted with bias and must be treated suspiciously

@nbenefiel

Ай бұрын

Most of the records from the time of Richard were destroyed by Henry Tudor. The only reason we have Titulus Regius is that it was bound into a volume of the Croyland chronicle.

I've been waiting for this video for sooo long and now it's here! Thank you from the bottom of my heart! ❤❤

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

You're very welcome. I think you'll like next week's one too :-)

Thank you. Fascinating as always.

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it. Make sure you come back next week. I think you'll like that one too. :-)

Given the "convoluted" family relationships in respect of inheriting the Crown, and who married who and why, your opening Family Tree is excellent!!! So few documentaries show these connections so clearly.

Hello from Co Down! So glad to see a video on Anne and Richard, such an intriguing couple. I love how Anne had so many royal connections and she was involved in some of the big storylines of that era. Just wondering have you done any videos on Jane Grey?

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Hi there! Is it currently pouring with rain on you too, cause it's a monsoon where I am right now (without giving away my exact location). Yes, I have a video on Jane's portrait. I think the easiest way to find it would be to look in my art history playlist. She also pops up in the bios I did on Edward VI and Mary I (see the Tudor monarchs' playlist to locate them more quickly).

@piccolina77

11 ай бұрын

@HistoryCalling oh my goodness same here! The rain has been relentless all day, but hey a cuppa and a blanket and a new History Calling video makes it a lovely Friday evening nonetheless 😀 thanks, I'll take a browse and find Jane x

@happycommuter3523

10 ай бұрын

Over here in the Colonies, we’ve had so much rain, my poor mother’s house almost has its own moat now. 😀

I kinda feel sorry for Anne Neville. I mean Isabelle and her were used for her father's ambition and greed.

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Yes, they're like the definition of pawns, poor things :-(

Thanks! I truly appreciate your dedication to source material and would love to hear the whole story of Margaret Pole through your words.

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

THANK YOU SO MUCH for such a kind donation to the channel. You might just get your wish at some point :-)

Wonderful video. Your research is incredible. I cannot imagine the amount of time it takes to put this all together. Thank you. I love your accent and the way you say tower. Much respect from the USA.

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

Thank you so much. Funnily enough I get trolls sometimes whining about how I say tower in particular and trying to 'correct' my accent so that I sound English or American. In fact it's one of the reasons you'll hear me changing the pronunciation of that word quite often so that I do sound more American, as I can't be bothered dealing with the nasty comments. Make no mistake though, 'tar' is how I pronounce it really and increasingly I'm just using my proper accent as it's irritating trying to remember to change it. :-)

Absolutely love this channel ❤️ 😘 x

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR GENEROUS CONTRIBUTION to the channel. I'm glad you're enjoying the content.

Thanks for the informative video. I have enjoyed this series of videos.

While I don't think Ann Neville had a direct hand in the fate of the Princes in the Tower at the same time, I don't think she condemned Richards usurpation of the throne as she does in Shakespeare's Richard III. The boys mother Elizabeth Woodville, had been a big reason that eventually lead to her fathers death against Edward IV and I'd be very surprised if Anne wanted to simply let bygones be bygones with the opportunity to become Queen Consort and her son potentially the future King of England before her.

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

It would be fascinating to know what conversations Anne and Richard had about the boys, wouldn't it?

@Knight860

10 ай бұрын

@@HistoryCalling indeed and if they were not responsible for the boys dissappearence, who they thought most likely responsible.

@nbenefiel

Ай бұрын

Richard did not usurp the throne. In June of 1483, while Richard was preparing his nephew’s coronation, Robert Stillington, Bishop of Bath and Wells and twice Edward IV’s Lord Chancellor, presented proof to the Privy Council that he had performed a plight troth between Edward and Lady Eleanor Butler before Edward’s secret marriage to Elizabeth Woodville. Under 15th century canon law, a plight troth was every bit as binding as a marriage contract. This made Edward and Elizabeth’s marriage invalid and their children illegitimate. Richard did not want the throne. He loathed London and was very happy ruling the North, where he was loved and respected. He refused the crown multiple times but was eventually convinced that there was no one else. Edward’s sons were illegitimate and George’s son was under attainder.

Hope you are having a nice weekend from Bea

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

You too!! 😀

Thank you for another excellent video. I find myself hitting the like button during the first few seconds of your videos. Why wait? It pleases me to believe that it was a love match.

Having read Sharon Kay Penman’s novel “The Sunne in Splendour” back in the 1980s I have always had a bias towards Richard III as a good but misunderstood ruler. So like to believe that it was a love match between Ann and Richard….no fool like a old fool😂

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

I hope they loved each other too. I can't say if they did or not, but I hope so.

@amyepstein4868

9 ай бұрын

Yes, I feel the same way about Richard lll. I believe he was an intelligent and capable king. And a great King. I never believed he killed the princes in the tower. And yet here we are...a man accused by a playwright. Accused by those who would gain by his discredit. And his death. Had to get that out...thanks for your comment...

@marthapackard8649

9 ай бұрын

Same here. Loved that book.

@rachelb2231

7 ай бұрын

I still have my very well read copy. Both my mom and I loved that book.

@nbenefiel

Ай бұрын

Penman always did her homework. However, I don’t think Buckingham killed the boys. That entry in Margaret of Burgundy’s account roll still makes me believe Richard sent his nephews to her. I especially loved her mystery novels about Justin de Quincy and Eleanor of Aquitaine.

Amazing thank you.😊😊

Thank you for this extremely clear explanation of the family ties between the Yorks and the Nevilles and of the machinations between them all, much appreciated. It's a pleasure to watch and listen to your fascinating videos. Incidentally, I've always found that famous stained-glass image of her to be very curious - why is she depicted wearing such an outsize crown?

Thank you.

Thank you so much. Thi k I’ve said it before but I’d like Anne’s plaque ( or a substitute) to be put with Richard in Leicester Minster. Just my opinion 👍👍🙏🙏🙏👵🇦🇺

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

I don't know that they'd move her Westminster Abbey plaque, but she could have a mention on whatever plaque/tombstone is in Leicester (I haven't seen it myself, so I'm not sure exactly what's there).

Great episode as always The Neville family name is old. The War of the Roses movie is a classic!!!! I had no clue it was based on their story. Thanks for info. It made me think of the Song "If you don't know me by now" Neviile's😶‍🌫😶‍🌫😶‍🌫

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

Yes, they go way back. Glad you enjoyed the video :-)

Very good.

I love hearing historical presentations of my ancestors.

One of the best historical videos i've see

@HistoryCalling

3 ай бұрын

Thank you so much. That's very kind :-)

Thank you so much-so interesting and well presented. Those poor women of nobility-they had absolutely no control over their lives. Even though they had a much better standard of living than most at that time, it certainly did not shield them from tragedy and early death.

Hi history calling were do you get your images from to make sure that it is not a copy right oh this is just another idea again if you are interested but would you ever do a video of Rita Hayworth and her marriage to a Muslim Pakistani Prince Aly Khan if your interested thanks can’t wait for one of the videos that’s coming up that I suggested once again lovely video

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

The images really come from everywhere. Most of them are labelled within the video though, if you want to know where a particular one is from. I'm sorry, but it's still extremely unlikely I'm going to do a 20th century history video. I'm sure there are lots of other docs out there on Rita Hayworth though :-)

@perniciouspete4986

10 ай бұрын

​@@HistoryCallingSounds like she doesn't want to Google it.

You are a magnificent historian and presenter.

Definitely strategic. Edward the IV probably preferred to have that wealth split between his brothers, divert money and lands to the more loyal(at the time) of the two. Great video as always!!!

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

Yes, I definitely don't think leaving all the power in George's hands would have been a popular idea. Edward didn't even want G married to Isabel in the first place.

What a great video I love it ♥️♥️♥️🤗🤗🤗

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Thanks Phoebe 😀 It's hard to beat a bit of the Wars of the Roses on a Friday 🌹

I love your videos! Greetings from Washinton state, USA.

Excellent x

Love the content!

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

THANK YOU SO MUCH for your very generous donation to the channel. I'm glad you're enjoying the content :-)

well written and well said. ✌️👍🏼😊

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

Thank you so much 😀

Awesome job!!!❤

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

Thank you so much 😀

I think I've learned more here than my HS European history class!

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Haha, well let's not be too hard on your school teacher. They probably had a lot more to get through with you all in a shorter period of time than I have. 😅

Great job with the video.

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Thank you. Glad you're enjoying it 😀

Incredible!!

Great video. The beautiful glass works in the background. Where are they from ? I love the artistry.

Great video

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Thanks Alison 😀

Good evening to history calling from Bea

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Hi Bea. Hope you're keeping well and in the mood for some Wars of the Roses history 🌹

@beastieber5028

11 ай бұрын

All ways

It’s kinda hard to say whether or not Richard loved her but I think that Anne had a large dowry made him really friendly! I actually just binged The White Queen. the White Princess and The spanish princess recently. I actually hoped they loved each other, I feel she kind of deserved happiness after the way she was being treated! I guess we never really know unless more evidence comes to light. As always great video and I’ll tune in next week!

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

Thanks Kimberly. Yes, I hope there was at least some affection there too, though as you say we'll really never know for sure short of new evidence coming to light.

@nbenefiel

10 ай бұрын

Richard was pretty wealthy in his own right. Richard, George, Anne, and Isabel all grew up together in Warwick castle. When George his Anne in order to prevent her marriage. Richard turned London upside down looking for her.

Thanks.

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

You're welcome :-)

I think it was a love match between Anne and Richard. She could have chosen not to marry or found another protector. He could have chosen someone just as wealthy and connected, or moreso, as the brother of the king, though point-taken pickings might have been slim. I also think there was a strongly practical element to the relationship as well AND the added bonus of annoying their older siblings by getting together. And I have always thought Anne heavily influenced Richard's choice to take the throne. She must have despised the older Woodvilles, although she doesn't seem to have been vindictive toward Elizabeth Woodville's daughters. But what I don't have is a bead on how she felt about her first husband. I think probably not great, given that she married his enemy/her childhood friend so quickly but I don't have any real idea.

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

Hmm, I dunno who she could have found to marry that was stronger than Richard (politically speaking I mean), especially as George basically had her kept prisoner. Richard might have been able to get some foreign princess, but that would have taken a lot longer to put together and as you say, it wouldn't have allowed him to annoy George :-) Like you though, I hope there was some genuine love there and I'd also be fascinated to know what she made of that first marriage. Her father really left her in a very awkward situation there.

@edithengel2284

11 ай бұрын

I don't think that Anne probably had very much choice in the situation she found herself in. She had been married into the losing side and the Duke of Clarence was trying to keep her from marrying again. The story about Clarence hiding her in disguise to keep her from Richard may not be true, but its existence does indicate how anxious Clarence was to keep her and her property to himself. As HC says, Richard was uniquely able both to attach her closer to the throne, to "rehabilitate" her, and to deal with his brother/her brother-in-law--how many other suitors would have been equipped to deal with a rapacious man who was also the king's brother? It is a mystery for sure what she felt about her first husband. But I don't think the time interval between his death and her marriage really indicates anything about her feelings for either of them. Her feelings were not a consideration in her first marriage, and I am sure the second marriage was something she wanted to happen because it released her from the hands of her brother-in-law. Annoying their sibs was probably a pretty low priority goal for them, especially Anne.

@sdl1ishappy

11 ай бұрын

@@HistoryCalling Well, I was thinking of how people like Jacquetta of Luxembourg or Katherine Valois eloped with inferior men. Although, the point taken that with Clarence wanting her fortune, that might not have been as easy as all that. As for genuine love, I don't know if they were in love as kids, but nothing would make a teenage boy fall in love with the girl that is on paper perfect for him more than being told he can't have her. And if it is his sh*tty brother telling him he can't have her, he's going to fall madly in love. As for Anne, not hard to develop affection for a childhood friend who is going to get you out from under your crappy brother-in-law's control. Obviously, they wouldn't have married if it hadn't worked on paper, but they were teenagers in a really dramatic situation. As for the first husband, I can't imagine, especially since Margaret of Anjou saw her as beneath her son. I lean toward it was a very unpleasant situation for her. I also wonder what she thought of her father.

@sdl1ishappy

11 ай бұрын

​@@edithengel2284 I think you underestimate Anne. I would hope she would be angry at her sister and brother-in-law for trying to take all her money. Honestly, I don't know how much Isabel had to say about her husband's actions, but it seems pretty natural that Anne would be upset at the people trying to take her money. And Richard wanted her money and was probably very annoyed at George for the whole treason thing. But this is all speculation. ;)

@edithengel2284

10 ай бұрын

@@sdl1ishappy Living well, it is said, is the best revenge, so my hope is that they put this part of their relationship with George behind them, without dwelling on it. In fact, in order to get George's approval of their marriage, Richard ceded to him a large portion of Anne's inheritance, including the earldom of Warwick, just to be done with him. Yes, there's no doubt George's family was still disturbed about his having turned coat twice.

Can you please do a video on Edward the elder who was Alfred the greats son

@HistoryCalling

11 ай бұрын

I would like to get to the Anglo-Saxons at some point, so maybe :-)

@philip2595

11 ай бұрын

Yes I look foreward to your going a bit Anglo Saxon.

@s4bombshell

10 ай бұрын

Ooooh I would love some content from the periods surrounding Alfred! I hope it is able to come to fruition!

Thanks

@HistoryCalling

10 ай бұрын

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE GENEROUS CONTRIBUTION to the channel. I hope you enjoyed hearing about Anne. PS I've been to plenty of old graveyards in Scotland and they have some great history too :-)