What do you make of Elizabeth and Edward's scandalous marriage? Let me know below.

@i_luv_hecklefish

Жыл бұрын

In a time when marriage was used as a diplomatic tool, marrying for love was scandalous all on its own. The fact that it was the king making a love match set tongues to wagging at a furious pace. On top of this she was a widow with young children. A king would usually be wed to a young maiden. In a time when life expectancy was short the younger the bride the more years she had left to produce the necessary male heirs. "An heir and a spare" was deemed the bare minimum. It was said that the marriage of Elizabeth and Edward only came about “by Sorcerie and Wichecrafte, committed by the said Elizabeth, and her Moder Jaquett Duchess of Bedford”. Elizabeth's maternal side of the family, the Luxembourgs, claimed a mythical descent from the water deity Melusine. Rumors such as these were extremely serious. They could and often did result in innocent deaths. This shows just what an uproar their marriage caused. They seemed to truly love each other though and their marriage lasted around 19 years and produced several children. They were against the odds but endured. A love story for the ages.

@0hMyLife

Жыл бұрын

You are SO WRONG on the wedding date of Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville!!!!!!!!!! Pregnancy for all humans is 9 months, on average. If Elizabeth Woodville gave birth to Elizabeth of York on February 11, 1466.......go back 9 months aaaaaand TA-DA!!!!!!!!!!! MAY OF 1465!!!!!! So, perhaps THEY decided to get married on May Day because it was such a big deal in the time period they were married??? IF they were married "in late summer", as you have claimed, (which would be this time of year fyi!!! August!!!) So let's give August 1, 1465 as their marriage date to give you the best odds here!! (Btw......August 1st STILL ISN'T late summer....late summer would be like August 21 or another date later in August) The baby would have been born in May of 1466.....possibly a premature birth in April. But it seems Elizabeth had easy pregnancies that she had absolutely ZERO issues with carrying to full term, so I HIGHLY doubt Elizabeth would have given birth prematurely this time......plus, all the detractors of their marriage would have written and talked about her giving birth to a weak and sickly girl!!! NO DOUBTS about that!!! And if they married in August, she would have been giving birth at only 6 months pregnancy........see where I'm going here??? And seeing as Elizabeth of York was born healthy and strong.....I'm going with Elizabeth Woodville had a full pregnancy with Elizabeth of York!!! Therefore there is absolutely no way Edward and Elizabeth were married any later than May of 1465. None. Zip. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Unless you are claiming that Elizabeth Woodville, a woman known for and written about in history for NOT giving her body to any man before being married to him, was having sex with Edward IV for 3 months BEFORE they were married???? That would be the ONLY way your date of an August wedding and a February birth could co-exist in reality................

@ellenmorrell8332

Жыл бұрын

Enjoyed this video

@coletterice

Жыл бұрын

I find her story fascinating, and I appreciate your detail and clarity about facts vs supposition. As for their marriage, it reminds me of their grandson's marriage to Anne Boleyn, in that it seems both women refused to be seduced and then discarded as mistresses, and ended up as Queen of England.

@collnss

Жыл бұрын

Have you done anything on Jane Shore. His constant mistress for many years until his death.

She is one of my favorite historical people....with all of her losses SHE and Margaret Beaufort SOLVED the Wars by marrying their daughter and son. Very admirable ladies

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Margaret will be up next in the series 😁

@mzprettywings

Жыл бұрын

@@HistoryCalling can’t wait! I ❤️ all your videos

@kevinc809

Жыл бұрын

Yes but I think the thousands of people who died and suffered during the Tudor era might not be so enthusiastic. The two ladies SOLUTION was hatched by their own greed, not because they cared about the common people. Henry Tudor did have the option of simply staying where he was.

@Ionabrodie69

Жыл бұрын

What a load of absolute tosh.. they were both avaricious harridans.. 😂😂🇬🇧

@Bluemoonofky

Жыл бұрын

@@Ionabrodie69 agreed!

I thank you for using the family tree graphic to show the familial relationships as well as the colors to explain the intricacies of the York/Lancastrian dynasties. A point that has previously confused me with all the Edwards, johns, Henry's etc. Thank you!!

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

No problem. It helps me to keep them all straight in my head too.

Brilliant. Thanks for discussing Elizabeth Woodville. She is one of my favourite characters of the time. Such a strong and powerful woman but she suffered much too.

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. Mine too 😄

"Women of the Wars of the Roses" - thank you for excellent content as per usual - no wonder Elizabeth chose religious retreat as an option in the end - she did not seek any of the excitement that happened around her - to survive the climax of the Wars of the Roses as she did must have felt miraculous - I'd take a vow after all that - ty HC - 🛸

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Ahh, but did she choose it? Come back next week for a discussion of that. 🙂

@FandersonUfo

Жыл бұрын

@@HistoryCalling - I would have in her spot - looking forward to the next vid for sure then - 👽

@dianetheisen8664

Жыл бұрын

I think she saw the opportunity and took advantage of it.

@English_Dawn

Жыл бұрын

It was normal for high-born women to enter a religious institution. Catherine de Valois possibly had gone to Bermondsey Abbey (next to the Shard) before her. The Beguinage is popular in continental Europe. Cecily Neville chose to live in Berkhamstead in a major house and Margaret Beaufort at Collyweston and by all accounts relations were cordial.

@English_Dawn

Жыл бұрын

@@HistoryCalling Have you been to Bermondsey Abbey in your visits?

Whew! That family tree is a migraine waiting to happen! You did a great job in giving the particulars. Thank you for your hard work and brain busting effort. As always, you’re the best!

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Can't disagree with you there. Those things take AGES to put together and my brain does indeed feel slightly bust at the end of it. :-(

@amymahers2957

Жыл бұрын

@@HistoryCalling bless your heart!

Thank you for doing this series! I love watching period dramas, and watched all of The White Queen/The White Princess/The Spanish Queen/The Tudors etc. Its nice to hear someone speak on the facts versus the fiction. This kind of history really interests me, and you do such a beautiful job bringing it to life! ❤❤❤

@melissapekarek3283

6 ай бұрын

Aren't they a fantastic, beautifully produced series? I love learning the genuine events from brilliant channels like this and look at the embellishments as historical fanfiction. 😄

@di3486

4 ай бұрын

The whole plot on Margaret Beaufort is horrendous and deeply inaccurate. The problem is that most people think they have some historical weight.

She’s my favorite of all the ladies of the War of the Roses. Excellent content. Yes, it was scandalous. When Edward IV married Elizabeth Woodville he lost his friendship the Earl of Warwick. I think she had to adapt to being queen consort quickly, especially when her husband’s crown was still in dispute. It must’ve been difficult for her giving birth to her son Edward V while she was in refuge at Westminster Abby. She was intelligent and gutsy. Thank you. Your work is brilliant as always. Have a great weekend. 🌞

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Yes, I can't imagine the stress of having to give birth in sanctuary either. She had servants with her I think, but it must have been a seriously reduced household and a very different experience to when she had her other royal children.

Elizabeth Woodville and Edward IV are my 14th great-grandparents! So I loved this look at her life and the wonderful explanation of the Yorkist vs. Lancastrian families at the beginning.

@Czechjules

Жыл бұрын

They are my 17th Great Grandparents. Hello Cousin!

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

I have lots of people here in the comments of my videos who say they are descended from the Plantagenets and Tudors and I sometimes wonder how closely related they all are. I quite like the idea of distant cousins finding each other via my videos :-)

@eviesholette

Жыл бұрын

That's so amazing! Meanwhile, I can't find record of my last name anywhere in France. We just randomly show up in Quebec where the record states we came from France while fleeing the revolution. If I'm ever wealthy I'm hiring a good genealogist.

@Pinklady7529

Жыл бұрын

WOW!!!! that's incredible

@angr3819

Жыл бұрын

So Queen Philippa of Hanault was one of your ancestors?

so good! i never get tired of hearing her story. plus your excellent research always has new info for me. can’t wait for part 2! 🙌🏻

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. Yes, things are only going to get more dramatic next week.

@ns-wz1mx

Жыл бұрын

we love the drama!😂

@neptunesotherdaughter7119

Жыл бұрын

Me TOO. Your not ALONE THERE.

Your use of the family trees helped immensely! The War of the Roses was not something we learned about in school in the US, so my previous knowledge came from shows/books like The White Queen. Now I have a much better understanding of what happened during this crazy era!

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

I'd actually never gone into it in detail myself until I started this channel, so I understand how you feel. So many people, all related and many with the same first name. It's a nightmare!

@eviesholette

Жыл бұрын

We spent maybe ten minutes on it in AP European History in high school. But that was way too short to have any idea how important this time was! I've done a bunch of research personally just for fun, though my specialty is really 17th century England.

The history of the Lancastrians is very interesting, not only because there were so many participants involved, but the crown seemed to change often. The heir and spares proved difficult. My favorite person during the Lancaster era was John of Gaunt’s third wife (first his mistress) Katherine Swynford. If I can remember correctly, her sister was Phillipa who married Geoffrey Chaucer , the author of the Canterberry Tales. I was so enthralled by Katherine’s life I named our daughter after her. I would love to know more.

@umitencho

8 ай бұрын

The Plantangenets had too many heirs. Too many people raised to think they deserve power by birth within the same gens.

Wow, the absolute BEST EXPLANATION of how things came to be! I have never heard a better chronological/hierarchical discourse of the family tree down from Edward III! Thank you much for such wonderful content. To take the complexity of a topic such as this and to break down the immensity of a topic into more digestible/palatable portions or understandings that lay people such as I can begin to get a better grasp upon; that which has taken decades, perhaps centuries to reconstruct and display in such a way as to form a cohesive whole, is a standard and testament to your scholarly mastery of this subject. I wish there were more teachers and scholars of your caliber in our school systems. But maybe thats where KZread and Internet research come into their own.. For those who seek, shall be those who find....

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Hi Jeffrey, thank you for such a lovely comment. I'm delighted that you found my approach to the family tree and the origins of the Wars of the Roses easy enough to digest, as I know it's complicated and something a lot of people struggle to wrap their heads around. I hope you'll come back for part 2 of Elizabeth's story :-)

@jeffreymontgomery4091

Жыл бұрын

@@HistoryCalling Absolutely! Wouldn't miss it for anything and I have my notifications turned on! I would also love to donate and support you thru your Patreon Account. I love the idea of being able to support my favorite KZread content creators and become more involved in such a wonderful community! I consider myself a life long learner, and to that "Keep on Learning" has become a motto I use frequently as it's congruency harmonizes perfectly with my outlook on life. Cheers to you and can't wait to see what's next!

That family tree sums up the complicated family relationships very well: no wonder I could never remember who was who!

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

I know, it is nightmarish trying to keep track of everyone.

As always, perfection has been met, Dr Ms History! ❤️ It always amuses me just now huge the medieval family trees are. I guess because now in the UK you’d have one or two children, three tops, in the ‘normal’ family, while back then you’d have to have an heir, and a few spares just because of how dangerous it was just living in some time periods!

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Ah, you wouldn't be amused if you had to put it all together :-)

@Bus_Driver_Jay

Жыл бұрын

@@HistoryCalling well that'd be a waste of time! Why pay a lovely professional historian and then do it myself?! 😉

Elizabeth Woodville is too widely unknown, for the brilliance, ambition and drama that was her life. She was intelligent, astute and cunning and ranks up there with the best of England's queens. She also lost a lot and suffered, due to her ambition and the times in which she lived, but was ultimately victorious in her aims and lived to see the end of the wars of the roses. I hope you do a video on her rival and one time ally Margaret Beaufort.

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Margaret's up next. I already have the books purchased to read up on her 😁

@thomashavard-morgan8181

Жыл бұрын

@@HistoryCalling She's a fascinating woman, look forward to your video :).

@kevinc809

Жыл бұрын

I guess it was the end. Unless you count the people Henry VII , VIII murdered because they had a much stronger claim then their own. Even Catherine of Aragon had a stronger claim. Lucky for her her nephew was who he was.

@daphne4983

Жыл бұрын

There's a series about her. It's fiction but that's how I first heard about her.

@toritori5835

3 ай бұрын

⁠@@kevinc809- I have an ancestor murdered by Henry VIII for that reason.

So much information! You did a great job. I'll have to listen a few times to absorb it all.

I love Elizabeth Woodville. She was a strong, intelligent lady but also a very loving Mom to her 12 kids... Her kids cherished her & she passed on her loving parenting style to her daughter, Elizabeth of York who was also known to be a loving, hands on, nurturing Mom to her kids (including Henry VIII)... I often wonder had Elizabeth Woodville & Elizabeth of York lived to see Henry VIII become an adult how might history have differed... Henry loved his Mom & would listen to her before listening to anyone else... But she died shortly before he turned 12...

👏👏Echoing Chris Banks: Wow! It's amazing how you present so much detail and bring these historical figures to life, HC. I'm not familiar with Elizabeth except through your videos so this is fresh and exciting. Can't wait to check out the Patreon extras! As always, thanks for completing my week on a high note. Be well. 🙏🏼

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Stephen. Yes, more drama next week 🙂

" ... Try to keep up." Ha! Indeed. Fantastic research and content, your voice and reading of the material is very pleasing and clear. Very well done!

Thank you so much for uploading this video. It is helping me get through the pandemic!

Absolutely LOVE your content!!!! Best online by far 😊👌👍

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Aww, thank you! :-)

Great video! I'm so looking forward to part 2.

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. It's actually slightly longer than this one. There's just so much to cover in Elizabeth's life!

Great content look forward to part two

Thoroughly enjoyed this. Looking forward to Part 2. Alison

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Alison. Lots more scandal and death to come :-)

This episode was fantastic 👏 thank you! Your explanation of the lineage made it all so simple to understand, love your channel❤️👍

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Stephanie. I'm always glad when the family trees and my explanations work for people, as they take a long time to put together and I know the Wars of the Roses can be very confusing.

I love history... And it's even better when it's ur own history.....last year I started to found out where we came from.... I was shocked.... I'm both York and Lancasterian......she was one of my great grandmother......my daughter loved the white queen.....so last year we watch the show....... I realize I knew the last names...... So I went to my books and open it up and it shock my daughter as well...... Thank you for teaching parts of my history.

@MsG1ggs

Жыл бұрын

It is wonderful when our children discover they were not 'hatched' but truly have a history. My son had to absorb the joint history of Scot highlander and an Croation rebel.

You deserve waaaaaaay more subscribers than you have!! I love your channel ❤

As always I love your videos. They are so well researched and backed up by credible sources. If you ever write a book (or books) I will be in line to purchase! Very well done as always.

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much :-)

Loved this episode. So well narrated. An amazing insight to past history. So much to learn from this era. Thank you.

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. Much more to come next week :-)

Thanks. Another amazing video full of accurate detail. Yes, their marriage was scandalous and certainly rocked the boat of the time. However, look at their legacy. Grandparents to Henry VIII and Great Grandparents to Elizabeth I. Can’t wait for the next episode.

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Yes, it was certainly a game-changing marriage in all sorts of ways.

Always enjoy your deep dives into primary sources. In this video, the inclusion of family trees was very helpful.

@dianetheisen8664

Жыл бұрын

The family trees 🌲 are helpful but a little confusing. When reading historical novels, or non-fiction books📚, if a family tree 🌲 was included, I find that I constantly refer back to it throughout the book 📚. That's when they're very helpful.

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. I really need them as much as anyone to help me to keep track, especially as so many people have the same first name.

“Hard pushed to dream it up.” Phillippa Gregory: watch me. Historians: please don’t.

This is my favorite period in English history, so bring it on, I can never get enough, and thank you for all your hard work, you're in the top 3 of my favorite channels and I enjoy my Friday morning with you and a cup of coffee ☕😀, so thanks again and love you 😍

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Nancy :-) You'll be happy to hear then that part 2 is even longer (though not by much).

@nancybradford8514

Жыл бұрын

@@HistoryCalling Woo Hoo, I can't wait!

A superbly researched production as always. I would have liked more content about Elizabeth's personal experiences. There may not be particulars available but perhaps some additional context is, on things like life in "sanctuary" and what immunity it granted. For example, did Elizabeth Woodville have to stay one the building or could she have access to the entire precincts of Westminster? If so, what were those like at the time compared to royal palaces, and was she sharing space with less rarefied "fugitives" like debtors? Did people in sanctuary need the permission of the particular religious order to stay in the church? How did they pay for their needs while confined? Could nobles in sanctuary engage in commerce and communication with the outside world?

@Ceibhfhionn

Жыл бұрын

I happen to find sanctuary particularly alien and fascinating. Other ideas: Her and her father's exact social position relative to their spouses (I'm thinking of the fabulous breakdown you gave for us novices on the rank of "Lady" in another video); what it meant to prepare the Tower for a siege, etc.

Very interesting! Looking forward to Part 2! 👍

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. It's another long one (for me at least) at just over 30 minutes.

so excited, love learning about Elizabeth Woodville!

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thanks. I've been meaning to get to her for a while now.

Another amazing and well-researched video!

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Joshua. I hope you'll be back for part 2 :-)

I really enjoyed this and can't wait for the next.

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much. Next week's video is even a little bit longer than this, so there's plenty to keep Elizabeth fans happy :-)

@itsjustme7487

Жыл бұрын

@@HistoryCalling Thank you. I'm looking forward to it

I’m so glad you explained who made up the Wars of the Roses. The families involved always confused me. I also love to hear her story! Such a great video. Thank you.

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

You're very welcome. I know I repeat myself a little bit when I do that stuff (from my other Wars of the Roses videos), but I always think it's worth a quick refresher, as it's so complex.

Your videos go fast because I get so interested in each story. :)

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Haha, if only it seemed fast when I'm creating them :-)

Though I've long been familiar with Elizabeth's story, your synopsis of her life at the beginning really brought it home in a concrete way. I've just never been able to warm to her as a person; I think it's all of her grasping relatives that ruin things for me. And although grasping relatives are nothing new, the Woodvilles really went above and beyond. With your mention of the Hastings document, perhaps that's another possibility of how Edward may have come to know about Elizabeth, given Hastings' good relationship with Edward as a loyal friend and supporter. And they even shared the same mistress -- Jane Shore -- though probably not at the same time:)

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Yes, when you list everything she went through in one go, it is pretty breathtaking.

@pk6810

Жыл бұрын

I really admire her resolve to maintain her position that she fought hard for and for surviving such a turbulent time period but I know what you mean, she's difficult to warm to, so is Margaret Beaufort I think, you can admire their grit and determination but looking at what their contemporaries had to say about them, they don't sound like nice people, both seemed to rub people the wrong way.

@susanmccormick6022

Жыл бұрын

@@pk6810 Especially Beaufort & her turncoat husband Stanley.

@pk6810

Жыл бұрын

@@susanmccormick6022 I can't really say anyone was worse than the other, they were all moving for their own gain. Some were just swept up in it all though and really didn't get a choice like all the York children, i feel heart sorry for them.

THANK YOU for going through the lineage chart of how we got to the York and Lancaster factions! I knew some of it but it was very muddled. Appreciate how clearly you explained the relationshipd :)

My Yorkie dog loves King Edward the 4th and Queen Elizabeth Woodville; He thinks they are his uncle and aunt.

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Well he has excellent taste 🙂

@stephencarrillo5905

Жыл бұрын

Shout out to the royal yorkie from our schnauzers!

@savagedarksider5934

Жыл бұрын

@@stephencarrillo5905 He is the crown prince.

@timefoolery

Жыл бұрын

Smart Anglophile puppy!!

@alleynealisleem9777

Жыл бұрын

🥰💖💕🌹🤣🤣🤣

I’m enjoying your videos of this era. I’ve read all of Phillipa Gregory’s books, and that’s how I became so interested in this era of British history. Thank you for sharing your dedication and research with us! Greetings from Kansas, USA

@emilybarclay8831

6 ай бұрын

Just a word of warning, Gregory is more of a fiction writer than anything, and she’s noted for her poor scholarly standards and heavy bias towards Richard III to the point where she’s been known to use unreliable sources and straight up falsehoods to defend him. I’m certain she’s an entertaining and skilled writer, but as a historian she’s generally seen as a hack.

Thanks great video look forward to hearing even more

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Vernon. Another long one next week, at just over 30 minutes, but there was just so much to say about Elizabeth!

Yay! I was the 1000th thumbs up 👍. This period of history is my favourite, and I'm a Yorkist through and through.... even though I'm only a quarter English! The York/Lancaster family tree was confusing but interesting in the way that many seemed to be jostling for power. Edward and Elizabeth's marriage was certainly very controversial, and with everything going on around her, Elizabeth to have survived the Wars of the Roses was incredibly lucky.

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thank you number 1000 (aka Katy) :-)

@susanmccormick6022

Жыл бұрын

Katy P:White Rose For Ever!

It's interesting how kings back then wanted to have as many sons as possible but it seems like the one of the origins of the Wars of the Roses was because there were many sons and as a result, their descendants all had claims to the throne. Primogeniture can't be much of a a barrier when you can just murder or overthrow each other if one wants the crown bad enough, it seems.

@agatha6999

Жыл бұрын

Perhaps thats why King Henry VII and VIII thought 1 son was sufficient? Because we dont see kings having as many sons as Edward III did till centuries later with George III I believe

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Yes, Edward III was really TOO good at having sons, wasn't he? It caused so many later problems.

I absolutely love the way you say the word tower. It is so very charming. I've never had history taught to me with such a sweet voice. I so look forward to your historical videos. Best wishes from Ohio, USA .

@angelagendreau3586

Жыл бұрын

I agree. I love her videos and narration.

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much Jerry, especially as I usually get complaints for saying 'tar', to the point that I make myself say it like an American sometimes.

@JenniferKokoski

6 ай бұрын

​@@HistoryCallingDon't you dare! Americans can handle a different pronunciation of words. It broadens our minds. Just ignore the critics. They don't know what they're talking about.

Such a tangled story.........but utterly fascinating!!!! It's been a long time desire of mine to visit the Tower of London.....soooooooo much history!!! Perhaps next year 😀

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Yes, definitely go if you can and spend the whole day there.

A video from you is the best birthday present!!!

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Happy birthday :-)

@gingersnap7822

Жыл бұрын

@@HistoryCalling Thank you!

With the amount of times both earlier and later in the story that people had been dragged out of sanctuary to their deaths, I think that heading into Westminister was probably a bigger risk for Elizabeth and her children than most people realise. The Lancastrians chose to abide by the rules this time but they could have very easily chosen not to and as a result the Wars of the Roses could have been cut short as the York line could have been seriously reduced. Fantastic content as always and I can't wait for the rest of the story next week. I am curious to see what actual documentary evidence there is for what Elizabeth Woodville was doing when in sanctuary for the second time there is.

@English_Dawn

Жыл бұрын

The Lancastrians by and large were very pious - look at the number of foundations they provided money for, Eton College, King's College, re-foundation of Christ's College and St. John's College in Cambridge. To leave Elizabeth in Sanctuary would fit into that. However the Yorkists ignored Sanctuary at Tewkesbury Abbey which had to be re-dedicated afterwards. They extricated the Duke of Somerset Margaret Beaufort's kinsman, sadly executing him the next day. The Lancastrians did however after Wakefield and Ludford pillage the surrounding 'enemy' territory.

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Yes, I think the limits of sanctuary are shown by the fact that it wasn't enough to protect little Richard of Shrewsbury, but that's for part 2 ...

Thanks for this video! I just love her story of a " "love match" back in times that a true "love match" wasn't a reason to marry ! Marriages were for political reasons and for money...not love! I'd like to get more information about Elizabeth Woodvilless Mother, Jaquetta of Luxembourg... One question I have is was she from the country of Luxembourg? I'm curious because my grandparents on my Mothers side came to the U.S. in the early 1920's and knowing how small Luxembourg is I would just love to know! Plus she married for love as well ! Plus she was an amazing woman in her own right... Thanks so much again! A great story and a favorite of mine!💖😊

There is so much back and forth as well as round and round. One should wonder where one will land at the end of the tale. I would only say for sure it will not be Kansas. I mean wow. Fascinating content tonight as always. I am looking forward to the next part.

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Lee. Yes, the Wars of the Roses are one of the most complicated parts of English royal history (in my opinion at least).

These deep, focused videos have taught me more than any dry text I’ve poured over in my 25 year obsession with this drama. I only JUST learned & confirmed my husband is a direct descendant via Edmund of Langley and I’ve been walking on cloud 9 since. I know it’s dozens of generations ago but thrilling to have a connection. I knew the tree was complicated but once I dove in via my husband’s tree I was overwhelmed!!

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Ohh, excellent family tree. I wish mine was that exciting.

Loving me a good old family tree 🙌 with highlights! 🙌🙌🙌

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. They take ages to put together, but I couldn't do without them.

Excellent as always x

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much 😊

Thank you. Saw I should listen to this first. Appreciated.

I cannot wait to watch this but its still early here and am working. will have to wait :)

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

You can look forward to it for later though 😁

Thank you so much for using the family tree, it makes this so much easier to understand and it became very clear who was who, and with all the Edward it was confusing, but your grateful ideas of doing the family tree, this help to make clear and also since I read books on her life, I was still a little confused with all those Edward's.

Thank you for your new video 📽️🎥 and a nice weekend🌄

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. You too 🙂

Absoulutly superb HC, Amazing research and and as I have mentioned before your powers of deduction on certain aspects of dates and times etc are amazing sherlock would be proud, as always Thank you. 😊

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. I hope you like part 2 as well :-)

@robertdudley4017

Жыл бұрын

@@HistoryCalling indeed I will, 😊👍.

Cool video 😎.Thankyou.

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

You're very welcome 🙂

💫Fantastic. Thank you ❣️

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it :-)

WOW!!! This is an amazing story!!!

She is my 16th Great-grandmother, and her son Thomas Grey 1st Marquess of Dorset is my 15th Great Grandfather his father was Sir John Grey my 16th Great Grandfather. I have been doing my family history for a while now and have been surprised at my family's amazing history. What I have learned is how connected all the nobility was to each other and how many royals and nobility I have in my own family. It sometimes very unreal and hard to wrap my head around but we all have to be related to someone and it is a part of who we are.

📚🌹⚔️❤️👑🤍⚔️🌹📚 I adore these videos. Queen Elizabeth Woodville is one of my favorite historical figures of this particular time frame.

Your video's are always well researched and presented in a fashion that is easy to follow. And while i understand the need for advertising, the amount and length of the advertisements within, have caused me on several occasions to simply not bother finishing watching

Good evening to history calling from Bea

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Hi Bea. Welcome back 🙂

Thank you for your Due Diligence in researching with confidence, your love of the Role of women in History. Some folk think they were there just as Baby Making Machines [when one dies, replace ASAP]. I adored Henry & Elizabeth's amazing battle for Family, and their Calling. Both were Heroic, but the price they paid was very HIGH. Elizabeth: 2 sons murdered in Tower; Father & brothers executed; jailed beneath church [a crypt] to safeguard her children while having her husband banished or hunted, not to mention her Mother almost being burned at the stake for being an accused 'witch''.

Elizabeth had big Edward wrapped around her finger 😁 married her as an unmarried widow who wouldn't give it up to the king even at dagger point and with all his advisors against it! Get it girl!! I know the dagger story might not be true but I love how it's Italians chronicling it, bringing that Italian passion and drama 😀

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

I'd love to believe it's true. It's a great story 🙂

@beginnerbuglady

Жыл бұрын

@@HistoryCalling I always like to think there's no smoke without fire 😁

@angr3819

Жыл бұрын

Although if she was deeply enough religious, she might have been frightened enough for her everlasting soul to refuse sex before marriage even if threatened with physical death.

One thing ppl forget is that Elizabeth Woodville lost THREE sons and a brother in the fallout over Richard IIIs seizure of the throne, not just the two princes in the tower. Kind of crazy that Richard would be so brazen as to kill his nephews but leave his five nieces alive. Especially when you factor in Yorkist claims to throne by female lines of descent.

@susanmccormick6022

Жыл бұрын

AW:Anthony Woodville is someone I would like to know more about.He was very gifted.He & Vaughn & Richard Woodville were executed by Richard & like Hastings death,that does bother me even if I am Ricardian.Edward should've had Richard know his nephews better.They were almost strangers as the young Prince was brought up by Anthony & spent time at Ludlow,whilst Richard stayed in the North where he was & still is, dearly loved.

@emilybarclay8831

Жыл бұрын

Richard had a son when he moved to seize the throne and even when his son died he had no reason to believe he couldn’t have more. His sons would have far more claim than any daughters of his brother. His nieces wouldn’t have been a threat to him from his perspective

I have to wonder how Elizabeth Woodville reacted to an offer of marriage. None of the stories really suggested that was her goal and her motives in the stories are always either refusing to sleep with a man shes not married to or trying to find help for her financial issues due to her mother-in-law

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Yes, it's disappointing not to have more sources that could give us a better insight into her thinking.

Wow she was a busy woman, great job as always!!!!

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Indeed she was. She's gonna get even busier next week :-)

This was a very interesting and very informative video. You have done a terrific job on your research. Have you ever or do you plan to do an episode on Henry Viii's sister Margaret? I'm descended from her but don't know much about her.

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Hi Sharon, I do have an idea for something on Margaret, but I won't give it away here as I have problems with people stealing my video ideas :-(

@beth7935

Жыл бұрын

Margaret Tudor is AMAZING!! I'm descended from her too, & she had a fascinating & pretty dramatic life, but she's yet another overshadowed Tudor- being the sister of Henry VIII & the grandmother of Mary, Queen of Scots will do that. HC will give us the BEST story of Margaret's life tho!

@beth7935

Жыл бұрын

@@HistoryCalling HELL YEAH!! I'd LOVE it if you covered my favourite Tudor!!

I remember reading a book a while back where the author went on for quite a bit about why her surname is Wydville not Woodville (I'm not even sure if I spelt it right, but it was a "Wyd" not "Wood"). I've always seen it mostly as Woodville, but that book has left an impression, but I can't remember the reasoning, so it's frustrating!! It was making me feel like one of those novels where they take three pages describing the grass😄

@lulabellegnostic8402

Жыл бұрын

The manor house at Grafton was recorded, in 1206, as belonging to the WYVILLs. So the name was clearly evolving.

@agatha6999

Жыл бұрын

I mean werent names back then spelled differently all the time? Like how Catherine of Aragon favored various spellings of her name such as Kathryn or Katherine,etc? Or does that not apply to family names?

@lulabellegnostic8402

Жыл бұрын

@@agatha6999 It doesn’t apply to surnames ( family names). Many names in England ‘evolved’ following the Norman conquest and subsequent attempts to integrate. There is interesting information about the Wyvills if you look up Grafton Regis. The manor house itself is significant because since Roman times it was a recognised settlement being just off Watling Street.

@English_Dawn

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. English had only been the official language of the Court since 1399 under Henry IV. Chaucer had been recent and was one of the first to codify it into a universally accepted idiom. Many surnames of Norman-French ancestry were being anglicised. Various spellings Wdyvlll, Wodevile existed before Woodville (modern) became adopted. By the time of the outbreak of the WotR English had only been the official language of record for 56 years and embryonic.

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Yes, her name was spelt various ways during her lifetime and Wydville was certainly one of them. Both are valid. I find it's good to just choose one spelling though and stick with it for consistency's sake.

The only possible explanation for Edward’s marrying Elizabeth Is love. He gave up every diplomatic and dynastic advantage and stuck with her firmly. Maybe he saw her intelligence and really liked her as well as desired her. And he certainly needed one person in his family he could trust. Maybe he didn’t feel he could ever trust a bride arranged for him by another. We’re talking the Wars of the Roses, right? Who else could he really trust?

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Yes, I think there was a strong attraction to her if nothing else. He cheated on her a lot, but given the number of children they had, they were obviously still spending a lot of time together.

@annmoore6678

Жыл бұрын

@@HistoryCalling It wouldn't have been the last time a powerful man stuck with his intelligent wife (or she stuck with him), even while getting it on with other temporary flings. Ask a recent American presidential candidate! In fact, you could ask the very intelligent late wives of several US presidents! But Elizabeth certainly had more children than they did!

@angr3819

Жыл бұрын

@@HistoryCalling Then again it was the 'done thing' for powerful men to have as many 'concubines' as they wished, so I suppose most of their wives simply accepted it - until Anne Boleyn.

@collnss

Жыл бұрын

@@annmoore6678 Jane Shore was more than a temporary fling.

@annmoore6678

Жыл бұрын

@@collnss Perhaps that would be a good topic for another HC post: what do we really know about Mistress Shore? How reliable is the information we have about her?

So glad were back to the Roses. Her in-laws the Greys of Groby were staunch Lancastrians and had been on Henry V's Agincourt campaign. Pity the acquiescence over sanctuary accorded to Elizabeth in Westminster by the Lancastrians wasn't matched by the Yorkists at Tewkesbury but that's the Yorkists for you.

@katjack2780

Жыл бұрын

Now, there's an apples-and-oranges comparison:) Allowing a woman and her children to take sanctuary is quite different from fighting a pitched battle for the crown...

@English_Dawn

Жыл бұрын

@@katjack2780 Tewkesbury Abbey had to be re-dedicated, besides the battle was over and the Duke of Somerset was executed the next day. Edward had "form", he did the same thing with Owen Tudor the day after Mortimer's Cross and Lord Welles senior before Empingham not to mention executing his own brother George and restranging himself from his biggest supporter Warwick. After Ludfotd Queen Margaret captured Duchess Cecily, her eldest daughter Margaret of York and Cecily' s two youngest sons George & Richard. By all accounts they were treated fairly and taken back to Cuventry. Contrast that to how Margaret was treated after Tewkesbury when she was paraded in a chariot when taken back to London after her son had been executed possibly in cold blood by Clarence' s men and possibly by Clarence himself and later had her husband executed at prayer possibly on the orders of Edward. Thankfully the proper house won in the end.

@katjack2780

Жыл бұрын

@@English_Dawn I do not have an axe to grind (ho, ho) either way; I am a great admirer of Margaret of Anjou, for example. But atrocities were committed on both sides. I don't think Margaret's killing and displaying of Richard of York's head was exactly chivalrous. That "the ;proper house won in the end" is certainly moot. It's just a turn of Dame Fortune's Wheel.

I am struck that all of Elizabeths brothers and sisters survived well into adulthood!

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Yes, the Woodvilles had an unusually high infant survival rate. It's just a pity some them were then claimed by the Wars of the Roses.

Elizabeth Woodville Was a fascinating woman❗ I look 👀forward to the next video 📹❗

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Diane :-)

I love her story so much.

So excited 👌😊

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thank you 😊

My great grandmother many times back through her oldest son Thomas. Some of her descendants moved to America which led to me. I have always had a fascination w Elizabeth’s story and was amazed to find out I descend from her which I learned recently.

@packard5682

Ай бұрын

She is also my 16th Great-grandmother, and her son Thomas Grey 1st Marquess of Dorset is my 15th Great Grandfather. I have been doing my family history for a while now and have been surprised at my family's amazing history.

What a difficult life she had. Great position & then nothing. But they weee interesting times. Great video 😁

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Carol. Yes and life is only going to get worse for her next week ...

According to ancestry, she is "wife of 1st cousin 17x removed" in my tree... via my mom's mother's side. I gotta say I see a resemblance. There are a lot of well known historical figures in my tree on my mom's side... and they all look a lot like me. For years I noticed i looked like certain old renaissance portraits of some people and thought it was a neat coincidence, only to find out recently its cuz I am actually related to them! It's sort of cool... and like makes me feel a bit better about my looks. I was bullied mercilessly in school for looking so "different" and fair complected. People called me ugly all the time. Well... I would have fit right in back then. xp

Thank you : )

Perfect timing as I’m currently obsessed with the *slightly* romanticized telling of her life, STARZ classic (😏), The White Queen.

@dianetheisen8664

Жыл бұрын

That's a great series‼️

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

I enjoyed watching that too. As long as you don't take it too literally, it's good, escapist TV.

@dianetheisen8664

Жыл бұрын

@@HistoryCalling I know many people don't like Phillipa Gregory's books 📚, but I really enjoy them. And yes. I know they're novels but she really brings the characters to life.

@iwillstom

Жыл бұрын

@@HistoryCalling Definitely. Each time I find an historical fiction piece I like it always leads me to research the real history so it’s a win/win, despite the often less than accurate scripts… Okay, Max Irons, I watched for Max Irons, I can admit it. 😂

Earl of Warwick: "Your Majesty, your queen comes with no political advantage and no dowry fit for your status as king. In fact, all she brings is a grasping, conniving family trying to headbutt their way into the upper ranks of the aristocracy through the making of advantageous marriages." Edward IV: "Yeah...but she's so hot!"

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Haha, it's funny cause it's absolutely what you could imagine the two of them saying 😄

@keiththorpe9571

Жыл бұрын

@@HistoryCalling I remember reading Sharon Key Penman's "The Sunne in Splendour", and all I could think was, "Yeah, that was totally Edward's reasoning." He really was led by his loins.

@kevinc809

Жыл бұрын

Bingo! And many died because of it.

@beth7935

Жыл бұрын

🤣🤣🤣 Warwick had no objections to a non-royal Englishwoman as queen when it was his own daughter though, lol

My overall impression of Elizabeth Woodville is that, if nothing else, she was probably very intelligent and almost certainly more so than Edward. I could absolutely see her deciding that getting his attention was probably the best chance she could have at solving her problems, even if marriage wasn't her initial goal. Not that there wasn't love or anything else involved later, but I find the entire situation more believable as one of mutual convenience and expedience than some great, dramatic love story. I also don't believe that she was some gasping damsel or anything like that, and that she was probably just as tough in her own way as Margaret of Anjou or any of the other royal women who get tarred with that brush. Thank you for another fantastic video!

@themaltesepenny3504

Жыл бұрын

I cannot wholly agree, maybe you are correct about Elizabeth but Edward IV did seem to have a genuine passion for her; his marriage to her was wholly inconvenient and led to all manner of problems that ultimately led to the murder of her sons by her brother in law. Had Edward conveniently married a foreign princess much trouble would have been avoided.

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

Hmm, I understand what you mean about it not being as romantic as some have made out (he cheated on her a lot for instance), but I think there was a fair amount of lust, on his side at least, at the start. I agree that he wasn't always the brightest spark in the fire though and that she probably wasn't particularly grasping either.

@AxeMichi

Жыл бұрын

@@themaltesepenny3504 I can see what you mean. By marriage of convenience, I was more getting at the idea that he got to act on what he wanted to while she potentially gained security, but that might not be quite right for the situation.

@AxeMichi

Жыл бұрын

​@@HistoryCalling I tend to separate lust from romance, but maybe in these situations one is as good as the other. It sounds like I need to re-evaluate my impressions of her, too!

@themaltesepenny3504

Жыл бұрын

@@AxeMichi It was a common practice that nobles would often persuade reluctant women to sleep with them by contracting secret fake marriages; indeed Edward was said to have done this with a lady named Eleanor Butler, and this was one of the reasons why Richard III declared his nephews bastards.

I just noticed that one of the pictures says Burlingame Public Library. We have a city called Burlingame here in California!! I wonder if it came from there?

Love hearing about my Family

Utterly brilliant ❤

@HistoryCalling

4 ай бұрын

Aww, thank you so much :-) You're utterly brilliant as well.

Another so interesting video. It’s not a part of history I know a great deal about so it was great to learn the facts. I think they should have been allowed to marry who they wished really . Also makes me feel like I would not have wanted to be Royalty in those days lol . Must have been very stressful

@dianetheisen8664

Жыл бұрын

(Stressful) to say the least

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

No, I wouldn't have wanted to be married into the royal family either. I'd rather be poor and alive, than rich and dead!

The highlight on black was brilliant .. ( reminds me of a Star Trek control panel. ) . but it's still a mess to sort out. LOL. I think the dagger was probably used but I don't know who used it or why . lol .. another crazy mystery of the time. Elizabeth must have had beauty and brains.. and a captivating personality.. I suspect many women would love to bag a prince. She did endure a lot as many of the women did on both sides. Her story is interesting. Thanks.

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

I'd never thought of the Star Trek comparison before, but as a Trekkie, I'm very happy about it :-)

At 4:51, and I wanted to take the time to thank you profusely for so clearly illustrating WHY THE HELL all this happened and how twisted up it becomes without your use of some color and line drawings. It is all so clear to me now.

@flydye45

Жыл бұрын

Perhaps this is common academic practice, but it is new for me, and so you get the points.

🌸🌷🌸 thanks

It’s as if a fan walked up to Harry Styles while he’s on a bike ride in the woods and ended up marrying him. It’s crazy.

Interesting point to stop Elizabeth's story. Other than deciding it was marriage or nothing with Edward iv it's interesting how passive she is up to 1471. What we'll find in the second episode is that she becomes much more of a player. In becoming increasingly political she, like Margaret of Anjou, began to behave in a way outside the normal contemporary expectations of queenship. It didn't work out well for either of them! Maybe due to the weakness of Henry vi Margaret had more excuse? I certainly feel that Elizabeth was more aggressive in promoting the interests of her family than was wise. This was apparent in the destruction of Clarence, 1483 and her strange fall from grace under Henry vii. Still that's for next week and I'm looking forward to your take on all this!

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

I'd initially thought of stopping in 1483, but then my script was so long, I realised it wasn't feasible to make this video any longer.

Elizabeth is such a fascinating person.

I didn't realize that Elizabeth Woodville was also a descendant of John of Gaunt; thank you for teaching me something new with that (knotty) family tree.

@agatha6999

Жыл бұрын

Just when you think you’ve fled from the inbreeding when learning about history, it pounces at you again

@HistoryCalling

Жыл бұрын

No, no. Sorry, I maybe could have made that clearer. Her mother's 1st husband was John, Duke of Bedford and HE was a grandson of John of Gaunt.

@SeGG8791

Жыл бұрын

@@HistoryCalling Thank you for clarifying. It was still an enjoyable watch, and that family tree really was well done.

@angr3819

Жыл бұрын

@@HistoryCalling So Elizabeth wasn't a descendant of Queen Philippa of Hanault?