Ian: Well, that's the common thing today, but early on, why not have them arranged like the spokes in a wheel? Also Ian: *spends 12 minutes explaining why not have them arranged like the spokes on a wheel*

Interesting, the RIA description actually includes this video embedded in it. I got caught in an infinite loop.

@FloatyBones77

3 жыл бұрын

Let us know when you escape.

@retroSlurp

3 жыл бұрын

Legends say he’s still in a loop to this day

@donweatherwax9318

2 жыл бұрын

Q: Why did the programmer die in the shower? A: The shampoo bottle said: "Wash, rinse, repeat"

@cmcgeath1180

10 ай бұрын

I wonder if Cascademenace ever escaped the loop?

I suppose you've already figured out the cap magazine being open when the rifle is cocked, but in case anyone doesn't know - I found a picture of the rifle, where the cap magazine has a sort of plate around the hammer that completes the circular look of the cap magazine and holds the loaded cap in place. The hammer fits in a hole in the magazine rather than an open space where the caps would fall out.

Ian is one of the best firearms technicians ever. He does such a great job describing these weapons so that even a novice can understand how these interesting firearms work. Thanks Ian for being a master at making forgotten weapons such a fountain of information. I appreciate what he does and am fascinated by the weapons he describes so well.

Dangerous maybe, but ingenious. The ingenuity of early gunmakers to achieve a multi-shot capability has always been interesting to me. The gun looks very well made too.

@howardbaxter2514

3 жыл бұрын

Oh definitely. Early gun makers were brilliant. That being said, there is no way in hell I am buying nor firing a rifle that has a chance of shooting a live round back at my leg.

@ckl9390

Жыл бұрын

The 18th and 19th century feels a lot like the Cambrian period, where an explosion exotic designs were tried until one general form managed to gain dominance.

@Noperare

Жыл бұрын

​@@ckl9390 everyone was trying to figure out how to shoot more bullets faster. But then people started to improve the better systems until we go the magazine feed system which became the standard to everything that is not a shotgun.

Who would have known they had drum magazines in 1851.

@weswolever7477

3 жыл бұрын

Ye olde high capacity assault rifle

this rifle looks like it belongs in dishonnored

@kierandavis8054

7 жыл бұрын

Hey you're right

@themandan4000

7 жыл бұрын

hey that's believable

@MrKilroy51

7 жыл бұрын

Hey...

@MrKilroy51

7 жыл бұрын

Um. Good. U?

@kyovalye5942

5 жыл бұрын

Indeed, I believe so...

The condition of this rifle is truly amazing, especially in light of it's age. All I've ever seen of these guns were some pretty bad reproduced photos. Thanks!

@marvindebot3264

4 жыл бұрын

I know, that barrel is beautiful, the depth of the blueing is exceptional.

I bet there was some sort of clip that held the caps and it was loaded as one piece with the caps captive.

@ryanresa

8 жыл бұрын

+Григорий Александров I think this is backed up by the fact that the "pusher" is not a half-circle as you would expect if it was pushing caps, but is a flat edge that would push on some sort of strip backing with all the caps on it.

@E1nsty

8 жыл бұрын

+Григорий Александров I was thinking a similar thing. A discardable paper cartridge, each time the hammer slams down, a cap is torn off and detonated. But a metal clip like +Ryan resa is talking about makes more sense. But how would you index it? The caps would somehow have to prevent the clip from rotating unless they are fired. We need a better look at the cap magazine.

@bigchooch4434

6 жыл бұрын

M a g a z i n e *

@planescaped

5 жыл бұрын

Maybe you don't actually open the compartment to load it, but rather single load caps into it tube magazine style? Looks like they might be retained that way.

@demostessque4847

4 жыл бұрын

@pj jp kids don't do drugs

The Cylinder looks like it took an awful lot of machining for that period of time.

@AldanFerrox

8 жыл бұрын

+JinzoDefiler I don't think so. Cast parts are unable to withstand the high pressures caused by firing the catridge.

@AldanFerrox

8 жыл бұрын

***** Bronze cannons had the advantage that bronze is pretty flexible. Cast Iron Cannons on the other hand had a tendency to burst without warning. This is the reasons why they started to reinforce the cast iron barrels with wrought iron rings to reduce the chance of rupture. And what you said about car engines is wrong. Most car engines have a maximum chamber pressure of around 400psi. 9x19mm has a maximum chamber pressure of around 35.000psi (if you use the SAAMI testing protocol).

@AldanFerrox

8 жыл бұрын

And even old cap and ball revolvers had chamber pressures between 6000 and 8000psi.

@ryann5247

8 жыл бұрын

+JinzoDefiler they definitely had the machining capability at the time, it was just really expensive. go check out his video on the merwin and hullbert revolver. its got tolerances so tight that a vaccum forms between the parts

@benm5913

8 жыл бұрын

+AldanFerrox Casting can easily withstand the pressures associated with firearms. While forging and machining was the standard of the era, castings could easily withstand the pressure. Seriously, the millions upon millions of American small arms made during WWII were all castings, specifically lost wax casting. Ruger still uses casting as its main method of manufacture. Just an fyi.

All the comments saying stupid design is kinda annoying. It's interesting for sure and its an old design.

@Tonybeanfarm

8 жыл бұрын

+ultor europae not really that unsafe. For the time period it's pretty advanced I'd say.

@TheStaticUnit

8 жыл бұрын

+ultor europae Compared to modern designs, sure, but we can only say that in hindsight because we know what works best

@TheStaticUnit

8 жыл бұрын

ok I'll give you that one. probably why this was the first variant lol

@Tonybeanfarm

8 жыл бұрын

+ultor europae I know. But it's not a big deal, because this isn't a mass produced modern gun. It's a piece of history and engineering. Appreciate it for what it is.

@Tonybeanfarm

8 жыл бұрын

+David Ridout believe it or not but there are guns that require you to put your hand in front of the barrel to load. They're called muzzle loaders.

Makes my head spin just trying to understand the thing.

@UnclePutte

8 жыл бұрын

Simpanssit venyy ja paukkuu!

@clod2692

8 жыл бұрын

+UnclePutte the thing is easy to understand, the problem here is to understand why someone end up with such unsafe and complicated way to shoot 9 bullets! ahhahaha

@d33b33

8 жыл бұрын

+UnclePutte Not so much, but my sphincter tightens imagining myself firing it.

@witeshade

8 жыл бұрын

+UnclePutte It looks extremely complex but when you follow Ian through it, it seems like really the whole thing relies on a couple of sprung steel bits holding things in the right places.

@VicariousReality7

8 жыл бұрын

+UnclePutte Vertically?

That thing is Steampunk as fuck.

@warwolf715

6 жыл бұрын

shdowhunt60 my exact words with the first 10 seconds

I've watched allmost all your vids, but this one slipped through. Funny, because I can now finally determine I've dug up a cylinder for this rifle. Corroded, but still. Location is interesting, did they get exported to the Netherlands? Found inbetween ww1 cap badges, Lebel casings, 2cm Flak casings/ live munition, and flak88 stellschlüssel (time fuse setting key, marked, 4 different types!)... Very interesting spot, at most 2 feet of water over mud/rocks, up to 1/2 mile into a lake. But aside from that, are there more designs like this, or was this a unique design? Enjoying your vids, allways interesting to watch.

@slayerficated

7 жыл бұрын

Mark van Werven I hope he sees this!

@KoyotBravo

7 жыл бұрын

Yop, that comment need attention !

@JvS1711

6 жыл бұрын

Gekkenwerk! Waar is dat ergens?!

@jamiebell314

5 жыл бұрын

Ive always dreamed of being able to travel to a former battlefield somewhere in Europe, like the area you found your treasures. I think it is beyond cool that people are still finding things to this day, its as if every single day we are getting back a little bit more of our past back, and everyone we find something its another story waiting to be heard

@rosiemccattail6350

5 жыл бұрын

@@jamiebell314 come to Яussia, we dig up whole tanks here and get them back up and running

Hey Ian, just wanted to say that your videos have allowed me to expand my knowledge of firearms. Of which I am very grateful!

I see the words Awesome but Dangerous I click, I see a Forgotten Weapons video, I click. Must remember not to click twice on this video or it pauses.

Very interesting as always

@Nat_556

3 жыл бұрын

This comment wasnt noticed enough

Actually, there lost two parts that operate procussion caps - small hook, screwed to lever, that extracts used cap and curly piece that hold next cap in place. Here is nice photo of that pieces silvercore.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/porter-second-model-lever-action-turret-rifle-mid-19th-century-silvercore-training-3-jgp.jpg

It's fascinating to see these early designs. The ways in which designs evolve is very neat to see. That rifle has so many moving parts, wow!

But ian you're forgetting the best quality of this rifle. Its a rifle and a grenade all in one, it's literally the glock of rifles

@markheinonen8079

7 жыл бұрын

Lucian Leesonja What do ya mean? Isnt glock extremely reliable and safe gun to use?

@SomeGuy-vo7we

6 жыл бұрын

He must be confusing Glock with Sig, which will shoot if dropped of bumped wrong.

@frostthefoxxo7192

6 жыл бұрын

Its an old meme guys.

@glennelson8017

4 жыл бұрын

More like Hi-Point

@lucassnyder3957

4 жыл бұрын

@@glennelson8017 hi point guns don't blow up they don't cycle

I love your videos man, you’re just such a chill dude and you leave no questions about any gun

Fascinating - it's wonderful to see that devices like this that were so technologically unconventional have survived to give us a better record of how engineering evolved to the models we have present day. Many thanks for showing this beautiful example.

Very interesting as always. Your vids are highly addictive, Ian.

Great video, a proper forgotten weapon. Thank Ian!

As always a very interesting video. Well presented! Keep up the good work

Quite a complicated hard work just to develop a faulty concept. Anyway, a monumental wayward curiosity which makes a delight to look at. Thanks again, Ian.

These are really interesting. I enjoy seeing ingenuity of unique designs like this.

+Forgotten Weapons - I am a new subscriber, and am thoroughly enjoying your vids! This rifle engineering is fascinating. Thank you so much for providing another interesting and educational video!

Never seen that type of firearm, wonderfully explained.....

The Great War Channel + Forgotten Weapons Channel = TRANQUILITY THANK-YOU IAN & INDY!!!!!

this channel is awesome. all kinds of neat little fireams

@ThatOneHumanMale

7 жыл бұрын

K I L R O Y W A S H E R E

@anaani

7 жыл бұрын

Really cool to see how engineers from different eras solved the same problems. Genuinely interesting even for a non-gun freak like me.

@MrKilroy51

7 жыл бұрын

ThatOneHumanMale calling card :)

I really like it when you show something as unique as this. Seeing all the weird things that were tried by gun manufacturer I wonder if anyone tried making a gun that use something else than gun powder as an explosive, like a liquid or a gas for instance, or even micro sticks of dynamite.

Very interesting design. The trigger bar arrangement is straight out of a traditional musket, which really let's you see it's place as a transitional design. As for the lack of fore end, I would think, like a revolving rifle, you would not want to put your hand up there anyway, least you get burns from the cylinder gap.

An interesting idea, even with the potential chain-fire. Thanks for the insight to a unique firearm.

I would enjoy more of these ...on types...actions not used....great history..example my great grandfather..had a 32 cal pin fire he was a civil war veteran...a night watch man and carried this type....thanks for your good work

Maybe its me but the channel in the cap magazine looks a little shallow for traditional caps. What it all the caps were formed on a single curved strip, That would keep them all from just falling out. And when the hammer falls it just shears off the exposed cap from the strip.

@TheRausing1

5 жыл бұрын

I think you’re spot on

@clearsailing7993

4 жыл бұрын

The cap that was just fired needs to be ejected somehow

Your show is a marvel!

great video, i must admit i had no idea that such guns were manufactured. aaand the way you said "little" at 3:55 really made me laugh. :)

Work of art, absolutley beatiful.

If Swiss watches could shoot.

Wow, this just has me spinning in circles. lol Another great video, thanx!

Great video! The 'little' at 3:57 certainly wasn't fired with a 3:57!

And by the way, Great presentation!

I love the engineering behind this!

if I'm not mistaken the caps it used was just like the ones that you used as a child , they were cap in strips of paper

Thank You, interesting design side note.

I wrote about a rifle very similar to this one in a series of alternate history stories I wrote inspired by the Cochran Revolver. In my case the turret or wheel as it was called was horizontal, not vertical, It also used an internal wheel lock type system so it was called a wheel gun. An arm crank on the bottom (doubling as a trigger guard) would be rotated one revolution which would rotate the turret, and cock the firing mechanism. Being a wheel lock and needing to be primed for each shot (the story was set before and during the war of 1812) the turret moved underneath the frizzen which kept the primer charge away from the other touch holes in the turret preventing chain fire. The turret could easily be removed and replaced with a fresh one (held 9 rounds).

Could the caps be on a continuous bandelier? So a strip could be inserted and engaged into the dog/finger in the cap magazine, not requiring any extra retaining mech.

@tomibgt

3 жыл бұрын

This is my thinking as well. The video didn't show the bottom of the magazine area so well. The strip could be placed so that the part of the strip with used (burned/flattened) caps would be pushed there, but something would have blocked a full, unused cap from entering there.

For a video game a horizontal revolver version of this with a 'chain fire' option to unload all the rounds in all directions would be excellent.

Although not the best idea, it truly is amazing with some of the weapon designs they came up with in those days.

Without weapons like this we wouldnt have modern firearms we have today and to see what one person came up with is incredable, people seem to forget how hard it acctually is to make a working firearm another great vid tho buddy!

Great review

What a fascinating gun! Love it!

Great info, thanks.

This may have been designed to use the Maynard Tape Primer system, which was in use by the United States military at the time, specifically in their M1855 Springfield, and that would explain the confusing "percussion cap" magazine, and as it's a tape, would not spill out as a handful of percussion caps would.

Fantastic looking gun love to own one we love these intricate weapon thanks

Ahh so this is what the Sybaris is based on.

@weaponizedemoticon1131

5 жыл бұрын

I wonder if the Warframe devs watch this show. A lot of the weapons have a distinct experimental feel, and you can match almost every one to a Forgotten Weapons video.

@hartianx1698

4 жыл бұрын

@@weaponizedemoticon1131 Yeah I think it's the Bronco that looks like the experimental flare gun that was in one of Ian's videos.

@atavy

3 жыл бұрын

I am glad to find other Grindframe here ^^

Fascinating stuff.

This gun looks so natural for a steampunk movie!

Looking at this thing makes me want to write a steampunk story. The over complicated but functional design is just the sort of thing that makes me think of anachronistic Victorian era technology.

@Arrowdodger

8 жыл бұрын

+loahnuh It looks like the sort of thing you might see someone using in an episode of Trigun.

@DAKOTA56777

8 жыл бұрын

+loahnuh It's not really overcomplicated... the mechanism is fairly simple, the only bit that makes it particularly more complicated than a normal revolver is the cap magazine with how caps were placed automatically. Otherwise it's just a matter of the parts being on the side instead of the back/bottom of the gun.

@STARDRIVE

8 жыл бұрын

+loahnuh Along the same line; imagine the submarine being invented before the propeller screw...

@loahnuh

8 жыл бұрын

+Ronald van Kemenade the Drebbel (c.a. 1620) according to wikipedia, I remembered mention of a Civil war submersible watercraft that was manually driven, and built by the Confederates (the H.L. Hunley, wikipedia again), so not much of a stretch. Thanks to the old Carmen Sandiego cartoon for that one.

@STARDRIVE

8 жыл бұрын

loahnuh Amazing, thanks!

wow great vid! the gun is in great condition!

wow....now thats one unusual firearm.... thx Ian

It doesn't give me hope that people, according to comments, can't manage to understand how this works... other than that, beautiful piece of engineering!

Perhaps the percussion caps were of a special proprietary type for this particularly designed rifle which prevented the caps from falling out.

I just like these vids as soon as I click on them now because they are so intresting and well described

Quirky complex design. As for the percussion cap cylinder, there used by several types of caps, some in a thick lined paper or frabric. I think this was one of the few guns that used them.

Gun Jesus does it with no ads. this gun is crazy.

Could it be that it was the shape of the percussion caps themselves that held them in place? After they were fired, they might have deformed enough to fall out. However it worked, that is a fascinating piece of weapon design.

@MrJest2

8 жыл бұрын

+David Landon Cole I suspect that there's a little leaf spring missing, much like the ramming assembly is missing. Still, a very interesting design.

That capping device looks like the Maker's Version of the Maynard System of a Roll of Percussion Caps, on a Tape.

I read this as "portal turret rifle" and boy was i disappointed

@bubsmcgee6048

4 жыл бұрын

did you see an egg with three legs on the thumbnail? no, that was a gun.

wow, I alway did love a mule ear lock, but I never thought a side slapper would be used for a revolver though. its not hard to forge a mule ear lock.as I remember, the military tested the Cochran horizontal turret revolver against the colt and found it seriously lacking for just the same reasons you mentioned.it also isn't very soldier friendly.i also think your right.it is missing a part.thanx for the video.

Interesting and informative.

i haven't had a gungazm in a while and this one did it, i actually giggled and was quite astounded by the injin-uity in this rifle

This rifle takes the word "obscure" to a whole new level.

The caps could be in a chain of string / paper with a knot at the end to secure it. Just load a new string of caps each time.

I think the spring metal flaps above and below the cylinder gap were intended to seal the chamber to prevent flashover from the top and bottom.

Very Interesting THANKS

I'm a cap and ball nerd. This gun is amazing and I want it

@diktatoralexander88

8 жыл бұрын

Bid on it.

@DeWolf33

8 жыл бұрын

+ultor europae I'm Not sure if that's an actual question or you're suggesting I should shoot myself with a chain fire. So here are my answers: Hell no or go fuck yourself.

@TeaAndBullets

8 жыл бұрын

+ultor europae It's just a wall hanger, but you could probably shoot it but only with one firing hole loaded.

@RockIslandAuctionCompany

8 жыл бұрын

+DeWolf33 We can help with that. :)

@TruAnRksT

8 жыл бұрын

+DeWolf33 I don't blame you! But like he said there is something missing to register and depose the fired caps. The metal on that thing looks awesome though so I wouldn't be afraid to operate at half it's rated charge just for fun. But the loading mechanism is missing and also something to do with cap transfer. Oh and it was never mentioned what kind of special caps this thing needed since it slid them into place and didn't actually have any way to place it on a nipple. Brute force? LOL There had to be something else acting there besides the spring loaded cap revolver mechanism.

Also the estimated price listed on the website for that just seems so wrong. This thing looks like a priceless museum piece.

Interesting that you point out that Colt 1855. R. Lee Ermey showed one of those off on an episode of Lock N' Load and clearly showed how dangerous one of those chain-firing would be to the shooter's hand. Better than a gun that shoots you in the face or the femoral artery, but still a good way to end up with a few missing fingers.

The idea of actually firing this thing with one’s head next to that nice cylinder charged with 9 loads has a considerable pucker factor.

Incredibly complicated. Though the man who thought it up had a first rate mind.

Might be some sort of break-off percussion caps, this would make it logical and simpler to load a set of caps as one piece... And I really like the venting system that goes in four directions, allot of effort to direct that hot gas away from the cylinder ;)

very cool i want one, and i would like to comment about the cap loader, i would guess that the way it might function would be an internal component that would allow a regulated rotation but i dont know im just thinking, it wouldn't have to be something on the outside to do so. where as the slide for the cap magazine pulled back from an internal spring, or maybe it was something u had on your person like a handled pic like a flat head screw driver that u would just pop out the spent cap manually and the next would slide forward. anyway, thanks for sharing

every mention of this gives me 000000.9% in Royalties… :P

@rioghander2te

4 жыл бұрын

so, about 1%

@Scotch20

4 жыл бұрын

@@rioghander2te well yes, but you're off by about .100000%

What a neat design. Some clever yet simple design elements that I really like. I do think that cap magazine is missing a retainer of some kind. I am not sure what kind of caps this thing used.

That, is, freaking, amazing.

Is there any actual historical documentation of a chain fire on a Turret rifle putting a bullet in the user or was it more of a psychological issue?

@ForgottenWeapons

8 жыл бұрын

+J. Murphy I don't know of a specific documented incident with a Porter, but chain firing with percussion guns was a real issue, if not a common one.

@SteelJM1

7 жыл бұрын

Uncommon but real when the chambers lie next to each other as in a typical revolver. The sparks from the cylinder gap *can* enter into an adjacent chamber and if the bullet doesn't have a good seal, potentially could ignite the charge and cause a chainfire. This turret gun however I think would nearly negate that possibility due to a few design factors: 1. Since the chambers are mounted radially, the openings are much further apart than a parallel chamber cylinder which would decrease the chance of errant ignition. 2. Again since they are radially mounted, the curve of the cylinder moves away from the direction of any cylinder gap sparks 3. The chambers that are pointed at the shooter are the ones furthest away from the cylinder gap sparks which again decreases and chainfire chances 4. The tension springs around the barrel I think also served to control cylinder gap sparks and gasses. They looks as though they have relief holes so that the majority if not all sparks and gas are directed towards the front of the gun, as well as the 3 releif holes drilled into each side of the receiver right at the cylinder gap. 5. Lastly, if by some miracle one of the rear facing chambers DOES go off, it would need to shoot completely through the rear of the receiver and stock, which I find unlikely. It probably end up blowing the side open and all the bits falling out. Maybe get a little hurt, certainly scary, but not deadly I would think.

The caps are held in place with magic.

Really cool rifle...

What is the black thumb screw protrusion just behind the cylinder? Nice video and a very interesting rifle.

the complexity of the machining and design put this rifle into the "work of art" class. Only the most precise tolerancing of the turret and locking components would create the alignments needed to position the cylinders correctly. This movement is 20x the size of the tiny notches on a colt revolver cylinder making it 20x the strength and reliability. it would really suck to be shot by a chain fire but the design is still beautiful.

Could it be that this gun used a circular or semi circular stripe holding multiple percussion caps? If this stripe moves along the flash hole from the upper caps magazine grove to a lower grove the caps wont fall off. However, I cant see if there is a lower groove, as the area is covered by the hammer in the video.

I wonder if there was a moon clip that held all the caps together.

It is missing two parts at the cap magazine. There is supposed to be one spring(?) mounted at the small hole underneath the big one holding the cap magazine closed, which wraps around the front end (probably only allowing a squished cap to fall out, and a rod screwed to the lever with two screws (underneath the screw visible on the lever) that pushes into that magazine - most likely to scrape the used cap out when the lever goes forward, and guide the next cap (pushed by the magazine spring) into place on returning the lever.

after a little bit of using google i am sure that the cap-magazine is missing some parts. i found some pictures of this weapon and these pics show a pair of screws right in front of the triggerguard.

The percussion cap area is basically a sewing machine lower bobbin.

Its a nice expensive wall hanger .And very interesting :-)

Don't you mean pressure. Spring tension pulls, spring pressure pushes. Thanks for your great videos.

7:44 I think that the design of the firing caps was made so that they would be stopped by their own size from just all being pushed out of the little revolver magazine. Then the hammer would either deform them and allowing them to move or simply removing the cap completely while firing... just a thought.