Penn & Teller's First Appearance on Letterman, June 26, 1985

By request. Their first of eighteen Late Night and nine Late Show appearances.

Пікірлер: 299

  • @r0bw00d
    @r0bw00d4 жыл бұрын

    Wow, Penn's voice sounds completely different now! Teller's, however, sounds exactly the same.

  • @Pentross

    @Pentross

    4 жыл бұрын

    Apparently Penn had throat troubles once and could barely speak and the doctor checking him out realized his voice box is just shredded from yelling all the time. Went on stage anyway, just had the doctor give him a steroids shot to the neck to get rid of the inflammation, and was back to normal a few days later, ‘normal’ being still teetering on the edge of permanently losing his voice

  • @TravisHeinze

    @TravisHeinze

    4 жыл бұрын

    Talking for 2 people does that

  • @iami3rian394

    @iami3rian394

    4 жыл бұрын

    I mean, he's also thirty-forty years older.

  • @michaelgriffin3537

    @michaelgriffin3537

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@iami3rian394 true but it's a very pronounced difference. So much that I checked that the video wasn't pitch shifted. He's clearly had issues as mentioned.

  • @iami3rian394

    @iami3rian394

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@michaelgriffin3537 Leonard Nimoy called me the other day. He said that's what happens when you age. In a totally different sounding voice.

  • @ambalavanant
    @ambalavanant Жыл бұрын

    The way Teller acts as if he doesn't know how to act is just top notch. These two are the best entertainers

  • @ionutdenes
    @ionutdenes4 жыл бұрын

    Back then, Penn had the ponytail in front

  • @philippschmitz1787

    @philippschmitz1787

    4 жыл бұрын

    He looked like Dustin from Stranger Things after using Farah Fawcett Hairspray.

  • @eth1stclass

    @eth1stclass

    4 жыл бұрын

    Ah the infamous front pony

  • @sebastiencarron1574

    @sebastiencarron1574

    3 жыл бұрын

    Pony Frontana.

  • @Zizumia
    @Zizumia4 жыл бұрын

    "Wow look how young Penn looks! That's hilarious! And Teller.. looks exactly the same"

  • @shino4242

    @shino4242

    4 жыл бұрын

    That man is like Patrick Stewart. e just came out of the womb looking like 50~ and just refuses to age any further.

  • @jeffreyfearn5662

    @jeffreyfearn5662

    4 жыл бұрын

    I noticed that as well....

  • @toamaori

    @toamaori

    4 жыл бұрын

    AND they have worked together since 1974??? OMG

  • @drummeralbertrivera9577

    @drummeralbertrivera9577

    3 жыл бұрын

    They were all in their 30s lol

  • @applejax1017

    @applejax1017

    Жыл бұрын

    It's crazy that Teller was almost 40 at this point! He was born in 1948!

  • @TravisHeinze
    @TravisHeinze4 жыл бұрын

    You can see Penns talking for 2 people really made his voice hoarse over the years.

  • @TravisHeinze

    @TravisHeinze

    4 жыл бұрын

    @estoban kupah I saw one video where they were smoking for a magic trick in the 1980s. I think he might have been a smoker.

  • @pemo2676

    @pemo2676

    4 жыл бұрын

    @estoban kupah they were real, you can tell by the colour of the smoke from the cigarette

  • @shezzuh

    @shezzuh

    4 жыл бұрын

    Travis Heinze they both never smoked (only for the routine), never did drugs, and never drank alcohol, they are clean as can be. The voice is simply apart of overuse, aging, and possibly an injury from sword swallowing

  • @snowbum6861

    @snowbum6861

    3 жыл бұрын

    Teller was just as awkward an stiff sitting in his chair then as he is now

  • @damiendunn2078

    @damiendunn2078

    Жыл бұрын

    @@shezzuh thats why penn is a frequent in the Vegas clubs cause he doesn't drink ok lol

  • @EagleGamer15
    @EagleGamer154 жыл бұрын

    It is mind-boggling to be reminded that there was a time that people didn't even know which was which.

  • @solidkingcobra
    @solidkingcobra4 жыл бұрын

    these young men seems like have a great future in magic.

  • @ryderfreshwater5651

    @ryderfreshwater5651

    4 жыл бұрын

    Andrew Furrer that’s the joke smh 🤦‍♂️

  • @asdfghyter

    @asdfghyter

    4 жыл бұрын

    @Andrew Furrer Since that would be redundant for such an obvious joke. Why are you so aggressive? Did someone hurt you?

  • @thesuperginge1348

    @thesuperginge1348

    4 жыл бұрын

    @Andrew Furrer oh please, I'll bite. Can I get spanked, daddy? What's the punishment? Call me a faggot or whatever you Hicks do. Yes. More. Please.

  • @asdfghyter

    @asdfghyter

    4 жыл бұрын

    Andrew Furrer Can you please clarify? What are you warning me about?

  • @LeviathanJPTV

    @LeviathanJPTV

    4 жыл бұрын

    @Andrew Furrer Last warning until what? The only fuckstick here is the one who can't even understand the most obvious joke possible.

  • @sailaab
    @sailaab4 жыл бұрын

    the real magic is that... Raymond Teller *stopped ageing* over a quarter of a century ago!

  • @iami3rian394

    @iami3rian394

    4 жыл бұрын

    He's absolutely a vampire.

  • @sailaab

    @sailaab

    4 жыл бұрын

    hahaha... now you got me thinking! who knows... ...maybe that *is* true! #shudders

  • @jtm232556

    @jtm232556

    4 жыл бұрын

    Aging"

  • @sailaab

    @sailaab

    4 жыл бұрын

    *+Jay ji* wikipedia.org/wiki/-ji thanks! but i was using a language called English and not some up'bhransh wiktionary.org/wiki/अपभ्रंश#noun like American, Canadian or Pig Latin wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_Latin ° i suppose, non "English" speakers may not always be familiar with English spellings, pronunciations.. that's okay :) ° colour (not color), lift (not elevator), Iraq (e-raak not eye-raak), route (root, not raaut.. like in shout), either (e-ther versus eye-der) realise is spelt as realize by some. in-fact many words ending in "se" are changed to "ze" ° pronunciations like tomato or water are again something that fascinated me often. Americans have more of the "V" sound and often pronounce the "T" more like "d" sound.. vaader ° accents too can be exasperating.. especially if English is one's second language and one watched both British and American TV shows. i myself often end up pronouncing things weirdly. many Brits often a typical twang to towards the end of words which (to me) sounds like the "R" sound. they might (want to) say India.. but it sounds like Indi-R (Indiaar) ° back in India, we've weirdly come up with terms, where none exist/existed. so, we have postpone.. but we invented "prepone" too! (o.O)😏 ° and most desis wikipedia.org/wiki/Desi invariably use the word "revert" out of context. many of us use it when we actually mean "to get back" or "to respond" :( #smh ° so i often get requests to e-mail the queries, to which the other person would _revert_ (to) by the end of the day/week!😕😁 #sigh

  • @Krawberry

    @Krawberry

    4 жыл бұрын

    sailaab “vaader”, we don’t sound German lol.

  • @juliusjohnson2206
    @juliusjohnson22064 жыл бұрын

    It doesn’t matter we already did the deck switch 😂😂😂😂💀

  • @MarkWhippy
    @MarkWhippy4 жыл бұрын

    You can see the real age difference between them here. Penn looks like the young eager kid and teller really does look like the adult/teacher. But these days it’s kinda reversed. Teller acts like the kid and penn the old teacher.

  • @909sickle
    @909sickle4 жыл бұрын

    Teller looks exactly the same. Penn is apparently a different human being.

  • @88michaelandersen

    @88michaelandersen

    4 жыл бұрын

    Teller has to get a new Penn every few decades.

  • @brokenwave6125

    @brokenwave6125

    4 жыл бұрын

    Not different at all other than being 35 years younger...

  • @Megasterik

    @Megasterik

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@brokenwave6125 Age is literally just a number for him.

  • @dhansel4835
    @dhansel48354 жыл бұрын

    I first saw Penn and Teller in 1981 at the Texas Renaissance Festival. I was working with a soft drink distributor. When I had some time I would come from back stage and walked out and saw several of their magic shows. I saw the needle and the string trick. Boy I had never seen anything in my life like that. Penn and Teller was getting their act started back in those days. The next week I took my SLR camera and got some really great pictures of them.

  • @jamesbevan9939

    @jamesbevan9939

    4 жыл бұрын

    D Hansel Pretty awesome that you got to see them before they hit it big.

  • @jessedub

    @jessedub

    6 ай бұрын

    You should post those pics somewhere online, i thought i saw them early but that was like 87,88, they must have been babies in 1981.

  • @pschroeter1
    @pschroeter14 жыл бұрын

    Eddie Van Halen! I'll have to tune in tomorrow.

  • @markdaniels7174

    @markdaniels7174

    4 жыл бұрын

    pschroeter1 AND wife Valerie Bertinelli!

  • @kdkseven

    @kdkseven

    4 жыл бұрын

    Wonder if that's when they met?

  • @ThePremiumChicken
    @ThePremiumChicken4 жыл бұрын

    I've met Teller in person after one of their shows and I was speechless when I heard him talk

  • @hammeraman

    @hammeraman

    4 жыл бұрын

    I met him once too, and he was speechless when he heard me talk

  • @y2kblackout

    @y2kblackout

    4 жыл бұрын

    Deep, baritone voice, right?

  • @paddyj7690

    @paddyj7690

    4 жыл бұрын

    Same here, met him in Vegas, and he just doesn't look like he'd have a voice like that.

  • @Fritzyboo

    @Fritzyboo

    4 жыл бұрын

    When Teller isn't speechless, we are

  • @jondunmore4268

    @jondunmore4268

    Жыл бұрын

    So... he made YOU stop talking.

  • @robbieg4047
    @robbieg40474 жыл бұрын

    Funny how Teller is always so quiet yet the man taught a language. Latin nonetheless lol.

  • @MattAlexanderMe
    @MattAlexanderMe4 жыл бұрын

    As soon as the soldering iron was brought up, Teller crossed his legs 😂

  • @saulgoodmanshellokittyphone
    @saulgoodmanshellokittyphone3 жыл бұрын

    Hard to believe that Teller is only a year younger than Letterman. He seems so youthful compared to Dave

  • @ElCappo
    @ElCappo4 жыл бұрын

    8:28 look at the second of pure terror and concern on davids face when the "knife" goes in. I love penn and teller. They are the best showmans

  • @gradeahonky

    @gradeahonky

    8 күн бұрын

    It's just about as much as you can get away with before people get pissed off - just under a second of actual concern. Anything beyond that is cruel.

  • @marioluffy7269
    @marioluffy72694 жыл бұрын

    Looks all chaotic yet they were all in control. Amazing

  • @Guitcad1
    @Guitcad1 Жыл бұрын

    OMFG! Teller has not aged a day. But Penn, here, is a *_CHILD!_*

  • @naptimegaming1347
    @naptimegaming13474 жыл бұрын

    Teller replaces Penn every few decades.

  • @tuz0wils0n
    @tuz0wils0n5 жыл бұрын

    Thanks, Don! @8:38 -- that is how you get on Late Night eighteen times.

  • @mattsheezy5469
    @mattsheezy54694 жыл бұрын

    This is magic with the attitude of Punk Rock.

  • @FloraWest
    @FloraWest4 жыл бұрын

    I remember seeing this back in the day. So so good.

  • @JerryGaming2020
    @JerryGaming20204 жыл бұрын

    Teller is in time machine.., Still look same in 2019

  • @JGAbstract
    @JGAbstract4 жыл бұрын

    Penn has started looking more normal, and Teller has started looking less normal and more like a character.

  • @timh6011
    @timh60116 ай бұрын

    Great stuff. Thanks again Don.

  • @tee4222
    @tee42224 жыл бұрын

    2:53 Weird cut to a sad looking Spanish chef who looks upset that nobody’s ordering food

  • @justingould2020

    @justingould2020

    4 жыл бұрын

    It looks like the soup nazi from Seinfeld.

  • @calebjaymes9710

    @calebjaymes9710

    4 жыл бұрын

    He wants sales

  • @krisraps
    @krisraps4 жыл бұрын

    I LOVE HOW HE NEVER BRAKES THE CHARACTER

  • @Jay-Kaizo
    @Jay-Kaizo4 жыл бұрын

    Penn and Teller - Fantastic! Timeless acts.

  • @djphillyb
    @djphillyb5 жыл бұрын

    I remember seeing this when it was originally broadcasted. It was awesome! But of course, everybody remembers the trick with the cockroaches.

  • @stephenpitkin5492
    @stephenpitkin54924 жыл бұрын

    What beautiful, disorganized precision!

  • @welcomestranger
    @welcomestranger4 жыл бұрын

    What a great spot!

  • @JerryGaming2020
    @JerryGaming20204 жыл бұрын

    What a journey guys ❤️❤️❤️

  • @kdpowers
    @kdpowers Жыл бұрын

    I was watching an episode of fool us where Penn started talking about this and looking at the date… Wow… I was born the day after this was shot

  • @Allik27
    @Allik273 жыл бұрын

    I love these two.

  • @MitchellTF
    @MitchellTFАй бұрын

    I love how Teller spends the entire time with his mouth shut...and then just does ONE TRICK and it's awesome.

  • @firstenforemost
    @firstenforemost4 жыл бұрын

    The band plays the 1969 song Venus by Shocking Blue as they go to break at about 2:47. In a seemingly prescient co-incidence, the song was re-rerecorded by Bananarama and released 11 months later, becoming a #1 hit.

  • @vintagevhsarchive

    @vintagevhsarchive

    4 жыл бұрын

    Good ear. I remember that song and video playing constantly and wouldn't have gotten that.

  • @VaughnJogVlog

    @VaughnJogVlog

    4 жыл бұрын

    Caught that too.

  • @weganmerner7014

    @weganmerner7014

    4 жыл бұрын

    I think it may just be years of straining his voice on stage. Obviously hes micd up well now but its still a high energy performance and he wasnt always

  • @nathanrye

    @nathanrye

    2 ай бұрын

    THANK YOU

  • @TheDude69
    @TheDude698 ай бұрын

    Awesome

  • @greatestgoalie25
    @greatestgoalie254 жыл бұрын

    This was the day I was born...wow.

  • @racafritz
    @racafritz4 жыл бұрын

    This is the Penn & Teller I remember. They are still great but, this takes me back. Anyone remember them in a movie called My Chauffeur? Teller plays a Sheik and Penn plays a swindler.

  • @sailaab
    @sailaab4 жыл бұрын

    i wish i too look like i'm in my 30s.. when *I* reach my 70s... that is, *IF* i manage to reach them/ live till then! (i already am about the age Teller was, during the shooting of this video).

  • @AimlessMoto
    @AimlessMoto4 жыл бұрын

    I was one month old when this happened... damn.

  • @razorramon1391
    @razorramon13914 жыл бұрын

    I remember watching this as a kid

  • @cazz8017
    @cazz80175 ай бұрын

    they still do this trick in 2023 godbless them

  • @gregdubya1993
    @gregdubya19934 жыл бұрын

    I was 2 weeks old. Cool.

  • @gradeahonky
    @gradeahonky8 күн бұрын

    Holy cow - watching this made me understand the full trajectory of Penn's voice. First a more natural voice. Second, the boisterous show voice he is most famous for. And third, the warn out voice that must be damaged from years of voice number 2.

  • @monkeyarms11
    @monkeyarms112 жыл бұрын

    Perfect guests for letterman

  • @asdfghyter
    @asdfghyter4 жыл бұрын

    9:32 It contains the hit single "Everybody is young". That sounds fitting for this old video where everyone is so much younger. The question is just how they knew we would watch this 34 years later? :P

  • @STOG01
    @STOG014 жыл бұрын

    Ha! Clearly visible paling of the card right before they were about to move to the table setup :) he kept the card up to the 'knife' section. These guys make a good show :)

  • @STOG01

    @STOG01

    4 жыл бұрын

    @Robert Duncan It's so unfair that there's two of them?) makes diverting attention so much easier than doing it alone?

  • @James_Edward59
    @James_Edward594 жыл бұрын

    Someday those Penn and Teller guys will have a show of their own lol

  • @OlafurArons
    @OlafurArons4 жыл бұрын

    If anyone's curious, the 2nd song in the video is a version of Wilson Pickett's 'I'm in love'. You're welcome.

  • @jerzeyguy71
    @jerzeyguy713 жыл бұрын

    Dave needs to have these two on his Netflix show!!

  • @KyleHarrisonRedacted
    @KyleHarrisonRedacted4 жыл бұрын

    Teller looks practically no different but his voice sounds the same. Penn had changed shape and size over the years and his voice sounds very different.

  • @AdamGeest
    @AdamGeest4 жыл бұрын

    So young

  • @MarcsStuff42
    @MarcsStuff424 жыл бұрын

    "First of all, who is who?" Now are other times 😂

  • @dbmail545
    @dbmail5454 жыл бұрын

    Wow! 35 years ago. I would not have recognized Penn. Teller is about 40?

  • @sailaab

    @sailaab

    4 жыл бұрын

    about ...yes! he is 1948 born

  • @sammydanger7287
    @sammydanger72874 жыл бұрын

    5:44 a switch of some sort I believe by teller in his left pocket

  • @paulhan3314
    @paulhan3314 Жыл бұрын

    Teller is floating while sitting. Wow 😮

  • @WILLYLYNCH.
    @WILLYLYNCH.4 жыл бұрын

    Teller got the classic 80'$ mullet.

  • @FerrisBueller-lj9zj
    @FerrisBueller-lj9zj3 жыл бұрын

    Brilliant

  • @dissonanceofcircles5451
    @dissonanceofcircles54514 жыл бұрын

    "well it's certainly safe hahaha" Penn's such an asshole, I love it I don't think he can control it 😂

  • @Alina-ym1yt
    @Alina-ym1yt4 жыл бұрын

    ...so penn and teller never changed

  • @tevinlandry1885
    @tevinlandry18854 жыл бұрын

    Conan pulled a 4 of spades during one of their visits on his show, too.

  • @jennareynolds1403

    @jennareynolds1403

    3 ай бұрын

    They always do that same card, as a bit of a wink to the fact that the card is forced. They are letting you in on the secret whenever they draw that card "at random" again.

  • @icysaracen3054
    @icysaracen3054 Жыл бұрын

    80s and 90s were the golden age of magic shows

  • @ThatOpalGuy
    @ThatOpalGuy2 жыл бұрын

    Teller is awesome with his straight face.

  • @bustdooms2638
    @bustdooms26385 жыл бұрын

    This completely explains why Letterman flipped out bcz he loved them so much

  • @e.t926

    @e.t926

    3 жыл бұрын

    What? Why and how he flipped out?

  • @bustdooms2638

    @bustdooms2638

    3 жыл бұрын

    @@e.t926 backstage story

  • @e.t926

    @e.t926

    3 жыл бұрын

    @@bustdooms2638 ok

  • @brianshoubert7803
    @brianshoubert78035 жыл бұрын

    Bravo! )

  • @RFHYLAND
    @RFHYLAND4 жыл бұрын

    Wonder if they really have not played at Magic Castle since the statement he made on this feature... 🤔

  • @marshallc6885
    @marshallc68854 жыл бұрын

    Penn and Teller ladies and gentleman.

  • @lucianonahuelgomez1374
    @lucianonahuelgomez13742 жыл бұрын

    8:30 David looked legit frightened lol, the good old times😆

  • @bobjones289
    @bobjones2898 ай бұрын

    Comedy gold here.

  • @WadeWilson-
    @WadeWilson-4 жыл бұрын

    OMG Penn was to different and Teller..... well..... good for him.

  • @drcharlesbombay
    @drcharlesbombayАй бұрын

    What was the track that Paul was breaking into @2:50??

  • @clockworkpotato
    @clockworkpotato2 жыл бұрын

    pure fun

  • @pmointernet
    @pmointernet4 ай бұрын

    Wow look at their baby faces!

  • @JPBenson84
    @JPBenson844 жыл бұрын

    Video proof that Teller stopped aging in 1985

  • @bahardin3992
    @bahardin39924 жыл бұрын

    Eddie Van Halen and Valerie Bertinelli on Latterman's show..? this could be a start of some thing romantic... 💘💖💞

  • @kurtissac
    @kurtissac4 жыл бұрын

    woah two months before i was born

  • @Thomasfoolery69
    @Thomasfoolery697 күн бұрын

    I think the 4 of spades was the same card conan picked when penn and teller were with the concrete helmet

  • @wheelz-2997
    @wheelz-29974 жыл бұрын

    Young Penn seems like a different person.

  • @justinf5457

    @justinf5457

    4 жыл бұрын

    How? He just looks and sounds like a younger version of Penn today lol

  • @tommydowling9
    @tommydowling94 жыл бұрын

    The day I was born.

  • @JackMott
    @JackMott3 жыл бұрын

    This is brilliant, they are acting like they are bad, you see all the moves. Doesn't matter though because when they do it well you can't see it even if when you know

  • @gerardmazzarese9363
    @gerardmazzarese93634 жыл бұрын

    Made me laugh. These guys are good.

  • @rickachumusic
    @rickachumusic4 жыл бұрын

    I didn't know that bond villain Jaws did magic

  • @gauravtee
    @gauravtee8 ай бұрын

    aint no way this was more than 48 years ago. Are these guys immortal?

  • @dongiller

    @dongiller

    8 ай бұрын

    38.

  • @gauravtee

    @gauravtee

    8 ай бұрын

    @@dongiller idk why I read '75 instead of '85

  • @odw_99
    @odw_994 жыл бұрын

    8:18 “I’m not a man, I’m a magician”😂😂

  • @sailaab
    @sailaab4 жыл бұрын

    wonder if Penn had been a heavy smoker (the voice box, throat issues apart) for his voice to become the way it is now!

  • @kendohmassif1984

    @kendohmassif1984

    4 жыл бұрын

    sailaab he’s totally against smoking drinking and drug taking so I don’t think that would be the reason

  • @sailaab

    @sailaab

    4 жыл бұрын

    Kenny ji wikipedia.org/wiki/-ji appreciate those insights. if that be true then iyam truly mistaken and 'twas hasty of me to have "assumed". thanks again and wish you a fruitful yet peaceful week ahead :)

  • @captainglad4966
    @captainglad49664 жыл бұрын

    Are We Live?!

  • @TheOffenderBlog
    @TheOffenderBlog4 жыл бұрын

    Penn's voice is so different.

  • @UnknownPerson-rf5rp
    @UnknownPerson-rf5rp Жыл бұрын

    Teller is really a cute kid 🤣🤗🤗

  • @heatshield
    @heatshield4 жыл бұрын

    👏

  • @therssopacheco8550
    @therssopacheco85504 жыл бұрын

    I was born 8 days after this was shown on t.v.

  • @sailaab

    @sailaab

    4 жыл бұрын

    it would be magic if you were conceived on the day it aired. (just a week prior to being born)

  • @TegridyElite
    @TegridyElite4 жыл бұрын

    In some aspect, penn is similar to foghorn leghorn

  • @gb5776
    @gb57764 жыл бұрын

    Penn has been abducted by aliens and replaced with a duplicate. Looks different, but more than anything, sounds completely different. (X Files music) 😁

  • @calin9601

    @calin9601

    4 жыл бұрын

    Teller sounds different too

  • @gb5776

    @gb5776

    4 жыл бұрын

    Calin Bocu nice 👍

  • @VaughnJogVlog

    @VaughnJogVlog

    4 жыл бұрын

    He says the same things, but sounds totally different

  • @iami3rian394

    @iami3rian394

    4 жыл бұрын

    Thirty years will change how a person looks and sounds.

  • @t2d748
    @t2d7484 жыл бұрын

    when run dmc want to work with you, you know you've made it.

  • @jameshicks7125
    @jameshicks7125Ай бұрын

    When I think of magic, I think of "A Magician named Gob" on arrested development. I worked for fifteen years building magic tricks and gimmicks. I know or can figure out how almost any trick is done, and the entire pretense of it whether, "Ya wanna see a card trick?" or "Let's bring out Lydia my voluptuous assistant.." is incredibly embarrassing and cringeworthy. With Penn and Teller it really is a slap in the face to all that crap, and it becomes interesting and hilarious.

  • @wolferguy
    @wolferguy4 жыл бұрын

    I hate the fact I'm unable to stay up past ten anymore. Am I missing anything?

  • @sebastiencarron1574
    @sebastiencarron15743 жыл бұрын

    Damn it I was 27 days old...

  • @avantgardeaclue
    @avantgardeaclue4 жыл бұрын

    Jesus, 29 YEARS AGO!

  • @brokenwave6125

    @brokenwave6125

    4 жыл бұрын

    You're terrible at math...

  • @avantgardeaclue

    @avantgardeaclue

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@brokenwave6125 I can't count backwards