I completely relate to that feeling of “oh no it’s broken again, time to rebuild everything”. This tends to almost always be the case with DIY flying projects! That was really flying though! Can’t wait for part 4.

@inventiveowl395

2 жыл бұрын

The beauty of any flying project is: they always come back down :D

@mikeloeven

2 жыл бұрын

@@inventiveowl395 And depending on how they come down they can even disassemble themselves

@atvheads

2 жыл бұрын

From kit to kit. :)

@mikeloeven

2 жыл бұрын

@@atvheads Unless your doing model rocketry and than its usually from Kit to Crater

@syedsulaiman8380

2 жыл бұрын

Not everyone is rich though

Love following the journey on this. My takeaway point in this is that it seems a miracle that birds can fly at all.

@bow-tiedengineer4453

2 жыл бұрын

well, birds have had a good couple billion years of development time. I bet anyone could build a decent ornithopter if they had that long to work on it. :P

@kbee225

2 жыл бұрын

Same goes for walking in two legs. You don't realize how much goes into it unless you try to build a bipedal robot.

@sealpiercing8476

2 жыл бұрын

It helps to be able to feel what you're doing, as opposed to watching and guessing

@PunakiviAddikti

2 жыл бұрын

Yup, reverse engineering nature is a science in and of itself.

@KobyMoon

2 жыл бұрын

Millions of years of evolution and natural selection can do some amazing things.

I've found out that using just a sligthly more expensive ESC instead of the yellow one that comes with those motors can make a big difference in motor torque

@PunakiviAddikti

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, those cheap ESCs aren't up to the task. I found out that with one particular receiver, the motor stuttered like it was skipping. I would not recommend these cheap ESCs.

@LoudRC

2 жыл бұрын

Same experience here, I tried using 4 of them in a 3D printed quadcopter and they were spinning at different speeds, and had a very obvious step/notch to their speed curve. Try a better ESC and maybe another motor as I wasn't too impressed with those no-brand silver and orange ones. I love your perseverance though James, keep going!

@savagebrian1234

2 жыл бұрын

could flash it with blheli can then change settings on esc, probably easier to buy a better one though

If the tail is a bit more adjustable, up and down, and a bit side to side, you can compensate for the stalling and turning out in the field. This is how smaller DIY ornithopters work, the tail piece is attached to a thin piece of metal so you can slightly bend it in different directions to trim/tweak the flight. Either way, keep it up!! This is a great series!

Have you looked at the paths of wings during flight for various animals? They tend to figure 8 about their pivot, not just up and down.

@galaxyboots

2 жыл бұрын

There are plenty of examples of ornithopters that fly by utilising this far more simple approach - counterintuitive as it seems. The flapping creates mostly thrust and the position of the tail gives it an overall angle of attack. So you don't need all the complicated imitating bird biology.

@fast1nakus

2 жыл бұрын

This is more like butterfly wings, not a bird. I think

@blakelowrey9620

2 жыл бұрын

@@fast1nakus great point I think it's definitely more insect than bird

i think a good idea would be to remove the rod you already cut up, and extend the shorter angled ones up to the main CF rod. i think this would achieve this "air pocket effect" without the wing deforming and letting the air escape. another design i frequently see is that parts of the wing have their own joint and move freely to remove some air resistance when the wing moves upwards, this would probably help a lot too. great video!

Very based you are the one making the birds for the government

@jamescrawford1534

2 жыл бұрын

Pardon?

@anonymous.youtuber

2 жыл бұрын

Talk like yoda you do !

@user-ug6hh4qg3n

2 жыл бұрын

Lol

@theperfectbotsteve4916

Жыл бұрын

You should catch a bird and smash it with a hammer to prove its a robot

Awesome!!! 🔥🔥 We need part 4, 5, 6!!! Let's go 💪

I don't know a whole lot about these things, but the toy version created some artifical lift by angling the tail up a little, if i remember the demo of the toy right. May be worth looking into. i cant wait to see the next version. Thanks you for keeping making interesting and challenging videos.

@BABALOOEY46

2 жыл бұрын

Yes tail up, less weight and more power… belt drive 🙅🏼‍♂️

@owenkegg5608

2 жыл бұрын

I wonder if it was because of the center of mass on that toy, to keep it from nose diving.

What if you ditched the belt drive and went with a compact planetary gear? A planetary gear would eliminate any of the issues you have with the belts slipping and may even end up a hair lighter then your current setup.

@charleslambert3368

2 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure if you could do this with a planetary but a non-circular gear might be a good idea. Unlike a propellor, the torque needed to flap the wings changes a lot through the cycle and a changing gear ratio might help to counteract that.

I love that you are showing how much work engineering and design is. Some people dont appreciate how many iterations it takes to make something that looks like the obvious answer.

Seeing the progress on this one is exciting, ready for the next one!

This project gets more cleanly at the interplay of deliberate thought and action, and tinkering that I think is at the heart of good science and engineering. There are other projects I am more excited about by virtue of what they aim to accomplish, but I continue to be excited about this one because of the nature of the development process.

This is my favorite project you’ve done in a long time. Please see it through can’t wait to see the next video

Feathers on the trailing edge of a bird's wing separate when wings are moving up to let air pass more easily, and then come together to create a larger surface area to push more air when flapping down. (At least on some birds.) If you need more lift, you could try somehow designing this into the trailing edge of your ornithopter wings.

@martindinner3621

2 жыл бұрын

An angled hinge would allow differential movement, but the added weight may be an issue...unless, maybe semi-rigid (celluloid? Plastics? ) feathers and a cloth hinge?

Found it! There's a man named Sean Kinkade who spent many years refining these. (Sean Kinkade Slow Hawk Remote Control Ornithopter) He was finally starting to manufacture and sell them when he was killed in a car accident. I found one for sale and with a bit of research you should be able to find his design. I do know CG is a bit further back than you think, they flap with high alpha and glide level. I've seen one fly and it's brilliant! Loving this series James...

Try dropping it from a high building just to get it flying first. Then you can work on the launching but knowing it can fly properly! Very inspiring work indeed!

somebody will love this series in 100 years from now looking back

Hell yeah thank you once again for bringing us along as you design, build, and test.

Good work as always James! Don't be discouraged by failure - any engineer can relate to the pain in it all

6:39 it's FALLING...with style.

Very much looking forward to seeing this project finally get to where you want it. :)

Amazing technical video and production quality as per usual! Keep it up - tuned in for part #4

I'm really enjoying this ornithopter series. thanks

It's getting real close now! Great series. Mel looks really interesting as well, checking that out.

My favorite project so far, keep on going you'll get it flying eventually.

Well this is totally new to me! Very interesting stuff and lovely to see you enjoying it! 👍

You are so close! Don't stop!!!! I can't wait to see the new redesign

I first started watching your videos many years ago with your homemade vaccuum forming machine, you are very inspirational and im glad I subscribed God bless you and keep you safe.

Getting closer. keep at it, and you'll get it!

Thank you for sharing your experience and stepwise success. In my opinion a compact transmission for lightweight and less air resistance could help.

Really liking this series James, definitely nice to see you mixing things up. Now strap an Arduino on that back of that birdy and make her fly waypoints!!

I love your projects. Thank you for sharing.

I've built toy planes + drones for years, you're very ambitious doing an Ornithopter first!

Imagine how little time has passed since the Wright Bros? This is thrilling to watch.

Keep at it James. This thing will fly to the moon someday.

Nice work! I like the project choice!

James, Now that you figured out the main wing - its really all about an articulating tail for bigger "birds". Cheers

You may want to consider some sort of curved skis to attach to the Ornithopter during the testing phase so that you can minimize the amount of damage to your structure and get a softer landing each flight.

Just a suggestion from an old RC flier: Start with controlled glide tests. I suggest setting the wings slightly up and locking them in place to do glide testing. The goal is to adjust your center of gravity and tail for a smooth glide at what you would consider "Approach Speed". That will take a lot of the crashing out of your testing. It would also allow you to design some kind of control mechanism. Many years ago I had a tiny little ornithopter, barely a 6" wingspan, that changed the tension of the wings alternately for steering. It did this with a moving arm at the trailing edge of the wing sails, and this functioned as the mounting point for the aft edge of the sails as well. It didn't take much movement of this arm to induce a turn. You could also add elevator control to the tail, just move the whole thing up and down. Remember that these flat, sail wings produce very little lift of their own, needing forward speed and angle of attack to maintain flight (Think "Hang glider"), so control of the pitch will make this *much* easier to fly. Hope this helps.

This is a really cool project, but I think you’re overlooking some important aspects of designing something that flies. The first is longitudinal static stability. I’ve noticed that on some throws, the ornithopter pitches up immediately, slows down, and then drops like a rock, because it’s going too slow for the wings to produce enough lift. Does the ornithopter glide alright without power or control input? If not, it won’t matter how good of a mechanism you have, it will crash every time. The second thing is drag. Having the drive mechanism exposed to the free stream is going to produce a lot of drag, and that may prevent the ornithopter from gaining enough speed to remain airborne. Tom Stanton has a good video on how to design and print a single-layer shell that could act as a fairing and reduce drag. It could also serve as a sacrificial energy absorber during crashes and save the drive mechanism.

oh, i love these! went through a phase for a week after i watched dune where everything i said was ornithopter-related

I'm excited to see the next iteration!

This is insane, I was literally just starting to build one and then boom ur video came out

I love how battery,motors and 3d printers have developed in leaps and bounds,so there's a way to reliably design,build and run something awesome., ThankQ. TkEZ

I love your project. One strong recommendation is to use a much larger motor and a larger ESC.

Instead of gluing the rods to the wing using fabric strips, you could use a sewing machine to create piping in the wing fabric, with removable rods slid inside them.

Keep plugging away. Great stuff!

If you look at the way a birds wing works, it is hinged on the leading edge half way so on the up stroke the wing bends slightly lessening the up-force but on the down stroke it locks into place giving it full down-force resulting in more lift. You are getting there tho. Great video ✌✌

You are awesome James

Hey James! While I really like your solution with the belt reduction, wouldn't a worm drive be better suited here?

Love your videos, this is off topic from the current video but a project that would be cool for you to build / walk us through would be to build a mini robot like Bolt. The one used by pros to do programmed camera movements. But you could scale this down for a go pro or smartphone.

@lachlanjohnson8019

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/e4Js1syNm5urqKw.html

That ornithopter looks really cool 💚

A 3d printer sponsor, that's the life right there

Great work! Keep going! It might be a good idea to add steering in the next version

Great job!

Getting closer!!

Great !!! Thanks for share all !!!

Can you add some kind of one way valve to the wings? So the downward force on the upstroke can be reduced

I love the passion of this kind of people they are really good inspiration for me :)

absolutely love this series - inspired me to look into this for my robotics dissertation! I'm wondering if, once a robust design was reached, it would be possible to have it learn to fly?

@krotchlickmeugh627

2 жыл бұрын

"Learn to fly" what the hell are you on about?

I would try making the body heavier so that it moves less vertically when the wings flap thus enabling the wings to exert more force on the bird. I would also put the braces on the top side of the wings in sections which are tight so that on the down movement they are pushed together and act like a solid brace but on the up motion they disconnect and let air flow around the wing better. Love your videos by the way !!

I would try using 6mm rods for the wings. Then in the center of each wing rod, putting a hinge on it so that when the wings are flat they hold in place, but when the wings lift up they bend. upwards at the hinge. I would probably put some light elastic over the top of the hinge so the wings want to naturally remain flat when not being forced up by the motor.

I love the fact that this Guy needs to wait a copious amount of time to print a lil gear

Nice! As you found tail heavy doesn't do well. There's a saying in the rc plane hobby; nose heavy flys difficult, tail heavy flys once.

Hey James Bruton, well done on your vehicle! It is coming along and taking shape! Fantastic!!!! IMO, You should design your next one with a launching mechanism so that way the launch is the same each time, and maybe put a tether above, like a "dog run," to keep the Machine from hitting the ground breaking everything. Also, 😅 make a "slide of some sort to distribute weights easier and faster with marks to show how far each move is.

What if you put some sort of liquid in the project, something that would do it’s best to remain level. So if the front started tipping then the project would become back heavy before inertia started flowing it downwards. Would that work?

Might be interesting to look into where you can figure how to make it so on the up stroke it flexes in a way that provides more forward motion and in the down stroke it flexes in a different way that provides more lift.

8:30 that looks so cool!

THIS CHANNEL IS SO AWESOME!

I know its way easier said than done, but if you had the wings have individual "feathers" of wing structure, that grouped up to make the wing, and then had them tilt on the upstroke, you could reduce a lot of downward force on your wings. good job so far mate, looking forward to part 4 :)

I've always been curious, how do these things not push themselves down on the upstroke? The wingbeat seems to be completely symmetrical, no one way flaps or something to fold the wing on the upstroke. Does the upstroke somehow also create lift?

@ZQMBGN

2 жыл бұрын

If you watch the whole video, on minute 7:00 he talks about this

@zenithparsec

2 жыл бұрын

Get a piece of paper, and start to make a paper airplane. After you've done 3 folds (middle, and two triangles) hold the paper at the 'not-pointed' end, and unfold the triangles. If you move the paper up and down, you'll see the triangles fold inwards a little on one stroke, and unfold on the other. If you're holding it the right way up, you'll produce more lift on the downstroke than on the upstroke.

@H34...

2 жыл бұрын

@@ZQMBGN i did watch the whole video, but again as far as i can see the mechanism is symmetrical so it wouldn't be at two different angles like mentioned

@H34...

2 жыл бұрын

@@zenithparsec that makes sense for what you described, but these wings are flat and as far as I can tell fold/flex the same way but in opposite directions on the up and down stroke. The paper you mention is asymmetric and folds and is more sleek on the up stroke, but unfolds and catches more air on the down.

@link7417

2 жыл бұрын

@@H34... It is as Zenith says but yes it does make an up force as well (pushing it down) this was the issue whit the first design because the wings were too stiff for it to generate enough lift but when he cut the carbon fibre tubes he made them slightly more flexible and creating an airfoil which is the same thing airplane wings are shaped as to generate lift so now on the downstroke it generates a forwards motion and upwards lift and the airfoil creates more lift based on the speed, to the upstroke do counter a few of these forces but this is why making these are pretty hard and a balancing act to get enough lift, I am not engineer so I would not be surprised if I was wrong in many of these statements and it is weary much watered down to its basics lay man terms

I feel like you need to build a rig to hang it from to really test it and dial in the movements... almost like the equivalent of a wind tunnel (not a wind tunnel, but something that serves the same purpose but for an Ornithopter) -- something where you can maybe just hang it and flap the wings and see if it goes up or tilts at all and just get it to where you can dial in the movements.

Very cool, always liked 'thopters.

Nifty ! Was hoping you didn't give up on it, its been a while. You'll get it, just stick with it.

Perhaps consider motorizing the tail a bit, then using accellerometer and gravimetric info, in addition to wing stroke timing, to decide when to point the tail up or down it might be good to syncronize the pulses mechanically with the main drive, then have a seperate motor operate some gimbal range for the tail's movement

Hoping to see part 4 soon!

Food for thought - motor speed reduction through an optimised / light weight version of the cycloidal drive. This would present it's own design challenges for the symmetrical drive to the wings, but final drive ratio is easy to achieve and the compact design would remove all the issues with belt tensions and stress loadings, as well as centralise the weight which could be kept close to the centre of gravity to aid stability. With careful design, perhaps using fibreglass or aluminium for the cycloidal disc to help minimise weight, I think the total weight would not be too different from that of all the "beefed up" printed frames, bearings and pulleys in the current design. As a bonus, it would certainly remove most of the failure points in the event of a crash.

Also, I think your wings don't flap like a birds, they're more mechanical and less flexible. If you add more points of movement to add power to the strokes downwards and less power to the strokes upwards to maximize the effectiveness of the wings. You want more surface area when stoking down than when stroking up. This would make the machine a bit bigger but I think it'd still be doable with the tech we have right now. Hell even easy if you know what you're doing which I have faith in you in ^^

Looking good. Would a worm gear work and be a bit more solid to survive crashes? Would it be too much friction?

I have been really enjoying this series but I have to say that it hurts every time I see the chassis glued to the carbon fiber rods. especially when prototyping as that means you cant replace / retention the belts on the fly and just makes repairs that much harder. I really hope you come up with a better method for the next version. glue is quick easy and strong but you know as well as I, it is a bit of a cop out / short cut.

@erictheepic5019

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, definitely a better/less permanent solution than glue needed. My ideas include: 1) Set screws. No idea how these would fair with carbon fiber. I'm guessing poorly, as the hollow rod might just crush. Or, it could damage the print instead, because the force is decently concentrated. 2) Screw clamp. Probably the most materially reliable option I can think of, but might lack grip strength. The wide contact area means that both the print and rod are unlikely to be damaged, save for around the screw on the print. A set screw might have an advantage in terms of grip, because it would dig into the material somewhat, unlike a clamp. 3) Low temperature hot glue (Replacing glue with glue... Sometimes, I even impress myself). If the temperatures match up, this could be perfect. Or, it could be nightmarish. The main advantage here is high strength, as well as being a drop-in replacement for the current glue. Whether this is practical is a matter of whether or not the glue can be made to melt without also melting/weakening the print. A precursory Google search tells me that ABS's glass transition temperature is up above 100 C, and that some hot glues melt as low as 65 C. If the structure can be brought to between that range, the glue should be workable, and the print should remain intact. The placement could be readjusted, and then the glue allowed to cool. I think the idea has its merits, but either of the two listed above are a safer bet.

You may have mentioned it before but what are your typical print settings for these types of projects? Are you using PLA or PET-G? Do you use more that 2 perimeters? What type of infill? Thanks for your awesome videos, look forward to more great content in 2022!

I had a large ornithopter that came from China and from what I can remember, it had a lot of power and thrashed those wings really quite fast. It would climb really well to quite a height. The three things that were apparent to me were to be as light as possible, have a really powerful motor and to really thrash those wings. Holding it while testing it was quite a scary thing to do and bits would break all the time.

I love the ornithopter project! Have you put any thought towards solenoids as actuators for the wings?

Could it be a good idea to integrate a rotation of and upward motion of the wings before the next flap?

@krotchlickmeugh627

2 жыл бұрын

Yes. Hes trying to beat the air into submission.

Regarding the amount of reduction needed, would a worm gear work? It will reduce much more in only one stage

@isaacgraphics1416

2 жыл бұрын

It certainly would reduce the speed, but the reason you don't normally see worm gears in mechanisms like this is there's a lot of friction inherent in the mechanism, so you lose a bunch of power in the process. For something which still needs to move relatively fast, it might not be worth it.

While just up and down seems to work on the rubber band drive French ornithopter toys. I’m under the impression that real birds move their wings in more complex patterns. A positive angle of attack while moving forward and a negative AOA while moving backwards. Instead of using levers do you need to be using eccentrics?

Question, the force keeping an ornithopter off the ground is not lift so it should be just as good at flying at any speed. So why do you throw it?

Do not underestimate the difference a bigger space for flying and a proper throw can make. Especially at this point where it's almost flying!

Using a V-tail or maybe crescent shaped, could give you both rudder and elevator if you articulate it in two axes; a third axis and you can even get roll as well with some clever linkage (or even just sequence of individually powered articulations.

dragonfly backpack? I see that as the end result of you exploring the next step in this design which is more than simple linear up and down flapping. you gotta scoop it

Might it be a good idea to print the structure hollow and glue some carbon fibre in it? So it's light and more sturdy?

Nice, the perfect machine to use in Arrakis🤣👍

@naiknaik8812

2 жыл бұрын

Needs more wings

@shaider1982

2 жыл бұрын

@@naiknaik8812 ahh, for the recent movie yes. The games seem aim for the bird-like form.

James, Pivot it at the elbows not the shoulders, so the inboard goes up when the outboard goes down

@galaxyboots

2 жыл бұрын

I think the simple flapping shoulder works by creating thrust and then you just need to give it an overall angle of attack. Anything else gets ridiculously complicated mechanically. I have a large Kinkade ornithopter that works on this principle.

Thank you!

for the wing struts/reinforcement rather than using a thinner carbon tube that is more flexible in all directions and could crumple and buckle/kink if over driven. Instead keep using the thicker rod but only cut on the top and bottom surface 90% of the way through, you could make a rod that would be flexible only in the desired direction/orientation. You ever think it might be time to start laser cutting thin sheet metal and getting a simple sheet metal bender for components? you could still bolt and glue things together, and you could unlock much smaller/stronger design forms.

A servo controlled tail might steer it?

Could a worm gear reduction work well?

Couple of suggestions (as if you need more) Why not use a geared dc motor? Could you design wings a bit like a rowing boats ore. So it gets updown motion but also frontback motion. Easier said than done of course

Great stuff 👏 If at first you don't succeed... there's a lesson for you kids !