Honestly.. None of my dedicated hifi friends are even able to pay 20K for a dac... This business is becoming increasingly decadent, and out of touch with the real world..

@freakin13guy

2 жыл бұрын

AMEN BROTHER!

@garykarczewski6678

2 жыл бұрын

@@freakin13guy I would like to demo a $20K DAC to a $5K DAC like Denafrips or Holo May to a ESS chip dac to see if the cost justifies the improvements.

@LunarLightLtd1

2 жыл бұрын

Then this channel is not for you. May i recommend cheapaudioman or Andrew Robinson. They are all about that budget gear. Ultra high end isn't for everyone.

@TheBodhisattvaWisdom

2 жыл бұрын

@@LunarLightLtd1 That was a bit inappropriate..

@michaelpowell4823

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheBodhisattvaWisdom truth inappropriate? Do have to say this channel is about getting best bang for buck though. Yes 20k is a lot but how much is your HiFi worth to you or your HiFi buddies? Personally don’t think twice about dropping 20k for a vehicle that I use less than 45 min a day so why question buying a DAC for 20k which I listen to for hours a day? It is all about perspective.

Please review Auralic G2's and Lumin streaming devices. Thanks for taking a closer look at this technology. Roon are bullies when it comes to device certification

You're in my wheelhouse now, Mikey. I am a computer scientist by trade. Have been for about 30 years now. I've bridged my work with my hifi hobby for a very long time now for pure pleasure and I've built quite a few very nice computer based music servers and streamers. I just sold my latest set and I'm currently without a streamer or a DAC so I'm about to start a fresh build. I agree 100% with you and I don't think you're going to get schooled by many on this topic. The audio manufactures are not usually computer scientists and computer scientists aren't typically audiophiles. I'm generally disappointed with the product offerings out there. UX is typically trash and/or the prices being charged for this stuff are insane. There are a few things I'm adamant about when assembling one of these boxes. Linear power supplies are a must. Buy components that can be separately powered by an external linear power rail. Don't use motherboard power if you don't have to. I'm a big believer in a great master wordclock because I've never had that endgame DAC. I hate usb as an interface. I avoid it as much as I can but sometimes you just can't. I hate copper ethernet as a transport but that's all the audio industry seems to understand. I still have not found a fiber ethernet card that I can satisfactorally interface with a master clock but I've been lobbying a couple of manufacturers for one. And no, TCP/IP does NOT carry an audio signal. It's a transport protocol that moves a file from point-A to point-B that in this case, contains audio data. Why in the world would you not use cables that don't pick up noise? We'll get there one day. My goto manufacturers for music servers and streamers are: Euphony Stylus OS. SOtM motherboards, Clocks, USB and Ethernet cards. Pink Faun bridge cards. Their SPDIF bridge with an upgraded clock is unbelievable. Jcat linear power supplies, USB and Ethernet cards. Boom! I do quite a bit of CPU tuning on the system. It helps to experiment and Stylus gives you some fun tools. The last few years my preference has been to use NOS on the DAC and upsampling using HQPlayer in Sylus. I don't have a $24k Play Back DAC yet and this has been spectacular for me.

@nicktube3904

Жыл бұрын

May I ask you some questions in private about music servers. I love to build one

@gil3green

Жыл бұрын

I agree, and the reply by Ulmer seem to confirm that. I use a audio engine streamer and my preamps dac. Auralic Aries streamer has caught my attention though.

Very enlightening, thanks man!!!🇨🇦✌️😎

Looking forward to this one Mike! Having heard your rig I know you will shed the light on it all and give us the real story!!

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Brad, you da Man !

Thanks so much, Mike - always appreciate the time and knowledge (and candor) that you put into these videos. Personally, I’m running Roon/Tidal off my MacBook (SSD) - I like that setup because I can use my iPhone or iPad as a remote for Roon (with full functionality). I haven’t dealt with Roon as a company, but I like their product. Would enjoy hearing a rig with more advanced approach, perhaps I will try and borrow a properly build music streamer & see what I can hear

@ebaysnipa

2 жыл бұрын

I’ve been running a MacBook Pro for long time as well just for kicks if you have an iPhone or iPad try running your system off of that and see what you think specially with Apple Music I say this to say that I think the MacBook Pro was holding the system back a little and I was missing some music

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

Let us know what you come up with !

This was a very grounded, well informed, and useful discussion. Some of the most informed audiophiles I know use a Pi with a linear power supply, and a good friend of mine constructed two linux computers with their own linear power supplies as servers. Low cost, very high quality. You're right on target with your "hunches," which are really more than hunches. I have a Node 2i which I replaced the power board in it with PD Creative and a good powersupply by Acopian. I imagine it competes quite well. No fancy brushed metal casing, but somehow, I'm surviving.

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your support ! Appreciate the feedback !

I'm really looking forward to this, I hope you are able to compare a few 'high-end streamers' to your computer setup. so far I have compared my setup, somewhat similar to yours, to other far more expensive streamers costing five times as much and I just haven't been able to distinguish if they're better or not. They all have a slight difference to their sound but I'm not sure which one was the best, just different.

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

That's the plan!

Mike in one of your recent videos on this subject I left a comment you responded to , you asked me to phone you I’m going to wait a bit . I’m coming from putting a disk in a tray and pressing play though it’s time to move on from my old CEC transport to better playback. I’m listening to everything you are saying I’ll be glued to your channel looking forward with follow ups to this video. Thank you .

I would love to see more on this subject. Very interesting

Totally agree with your observations and accidentally when looking for a substitute for using my day to day MBP for music purchased a JRiver Id NUC which runs their media centre software on a stripped down Linux OS and I have yet to find a "corporate" server to sound any better yet and chalk and cheese to the noisy MBP. All for just over $300. Only upgrade was to ditch the switch mode wall wart with a linear power supply.

I had to change out the electronics in our family room system since my daughters wanted to start use it, so it had to be simple. I have Von Schweikert VR-44's in the room that where powered by a Krell S-300i, the DAC was a Benchmark DAC3 and I ran Tidal off a MacBook Pro WiFi for streaming. I switched things to a Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 connected with ethernet cable to the router and Tidal Connect. I know I changed too many moving parts to say which digital is better, but I find the system very enjoyable with my only complaint being in the treble. It was too laid back. I hated playing with the room correction but a 1.5 db bump above 2500hz helped a lot. I'm very interested in seeing your results. I've never had a dedicated room but we are building a new lake house and I will have one there once it's complete, so I can started on my endgame system at Axpona.

Can you recommend a OS Mikey? Which you use?

mikey, you are on the right path! first of all, roon looks nice, but sounds more terrible than every other server software that i was testing on different server plattforms, dont ask me why, it’s a fact. in my big strereo system i have a linn new klimax dsm network streamer (around 50‘000$ with some power supply modifications for another 10k). i‘m (like you) sure, that the dac (or network player) has the biggest influence to the sound. but then, also the network-cables are important. and a big sound improvement i have from the melco audiophile network switch with a separate linear power supply, (reducing jitter and noise). but, at the end, there are some differences in sound coming from the music servers. for example the naim uniti core music server sounds clearly better than different apple and windows computer what i have tested. actually i wait for the new melco music server for around 10k, that i want to test. the melco products are using in house developed pcb‘s and no standard computer boards. perhaps you want also to have a look to this brand?

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

Im up for anything but at this point my system does everything so well that Im not motivated for improvement.. Im already in complete nirvana, Id rather spend some time on other interests... Im doing this comparison and eval for my viewers more than anything and just to know once and for all how much BS is in this ...

I used dbpoweramp for ripping asset upnp for playback from a dedicated Mac mini that sits in my office. Are you saying that’s still too much noise?

Have you evaluated Innuos products? I personally own a Zenith Mk 3 server/cd ripper/streamer that uses their own App "Sense", no additional monthly fees like Roon and can act as a main server or endpoint. It runs on Linux and is extremely quiet. The high end model "Statement" has an ethernet isolation RJ45 and a USB recloker/isolator. For your consideration...

Hi Mikey Do you have any conclusions about this K50 server? Antipodes had a new flagship server released in this month Oladra.

It runs through my computer to wifi to Roon currently. Getting DCS Bartok with built in streamer so I can get rid of the Roon and use direct ethernet connect. My system mainly for laid back vocal type listening. Currently Prima Luna tube pre-pamp and separate dac, monitor audio platinum PL500II speakers, Jc plus one Parasound amp for each speaker. I might upgrade dac again from Bartok at later date. They had big Florida home audio show but did not have time to go with my business so busy.

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

DCS will outclass the rest of your rig immediately.

I have an Innuos Zen MK3, the new sense platform they built for their streamers sounds MUCH better than Roon in my system. Noise floor lowered very obviously, deeper and punchier bass, clearer top end. Going to Roon for me now sounds like playing an mp3 vs lossless.

@alex32009

2 жыл бұрын

I just upgraded from a Zen mini to a Zenith and there was a huge noticeable improvement in SQ

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

Awesome!

Great info mikey

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 ай бұрын

Thx.

This is gonna be goooood, lets see what those little raspberries can do (or any cheap raspberry clone for that matter)

@michaelpowell4823

2 жыл бұрын

Personally been using a RaspPi running Plex as server/streamer connected to a NAS. Not sure what Plex did a couple years ago for music but it made it better than roon IMO. Gives me access to the library everywhere from my phone. With a DAC transport from HiFiBerry going into the DAC; tried USB out and it was horrible. Coaxial out sounds really good to me.

thinking of upgrading my Bluesound Node, but i think the DAC is more important. in my case a Denafrips will suffice. i stand the symphony on a regular basis so this works for me.

@OCDHIFiGuy

Ай бұрын

Then support China

Rad shirt mikey love there coffee.

Hey Mikey, the biggest improvements to the server i ever did was to replace all the wiring I could get my hands on with 1.5mm dia solid core 99.99 pure silver wire, including the dc cable powering my mini itx server. The result? Pure silence and an analog sound.

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

Congrats on a job well done !

Mikey which linux OS should I use....help!

What are your current thoughts on linear power supplies on music servers? Especially if it is only spitting out ethernet to a separate streamer?

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

They are important over a wall wart for sure, but you can use any Low Noise linear power supply for good effects. No need to go bonkers with "HiFi" power supplies for thousands of dollars..

the JCAT usb card has been there for a LONG time and has seen 2 hardware updates/revisions. From what I've read about the JCAT guys they seem like cool hifi people. I've interacted with them on their forum as well.

@OCDHIFiGuy

Жыл бұрын

Yes, they are good guys !

Interesting: for $20K, spend $17 on DAC, and $3K on server. I think you also need to include the cost of the USB cable. The system I have is a $86,000 Legacy Audio Valor system (includes Legacy Audio Wavelet digital pre-amp/room-correction/active-crossover/DAC-per-channel, and 2750 watts of class-D amp modules within each speaker), which is a full 4-channel active system. I use a $4,000 twenty watt per channel Raven Audio Black Hawk tube amp with 60 year old NOS tubes to drive the AMT treble and waveguide upper-midrange drivers, and use Silversmith Fidelium ribbon speaker cables for this. I use 3 pairs of Shunyata Venom XLR cables to connect the Wavelet to the speakers. I had a Cambridge Audio CXN 2, which was connected to the Wavelet using SPDIF (the steamer component was probably a couple of hundred dollars). I found out from the pre-amp manufacturer that USB was the best to use since the clocking is done in the pre-amp itself. Given the price of the Valors, I bought a $6,200 Lumin U1 streamer. The thinking there was that given the amount I was already spending on the Valors, I may as well try to get the best possible. This streamer was the first time I noticed a necessity for burn-in. I ended up leaving the streamer playing 24/7 for two weeks. I would try listening for a short period every couple of days. The change in sound during the burn-in period was a surprise to me. If bits were just bits, why would there even be a change in sound. I was using a factory (Monoprice) USB cable for this. I then rented several USB cables to try out. I was skeptical with USB cables, given that it was supposedly bits are bits. However, I was very surprised that there was a significant difference in sound flavor between the USB cables. I tried the Shunyata Sigma, Shunyata Omega, SR Galileo, and Purist Audio Diamond 30th Anniversary. The Purist Audio cable sounded the closest to my turntable, in that it was darker and smoother than the others. It was significantly cheaper than the other cables, but still costed $2000. I then changed the Wavelet switching power supply for a Plixir linear power supply, and upgraded to the Lumin X1 power supply for the streamer. The improvement from the power supplies for both streamer and Wavelet seemed to make the individual instruments a bit more distinct. I will say that it was subtle, but if you are already spending so much on the back end of the system, your brain tells you that you might as well get the best streamer you can. To me, $10,000 for Lumin U1 streamer with X1 power supply and USB cables was the best I could see. The idea of spending any money on a separate DAC seemed odd as you would then have a streamer go through a DAC, into the Wavelet ACD, through room correction, and then through another set of output DACs. Rather than the purest sound coming into the Wavelet, all you would really be getting from the external DAC would be sound processing. This would seem like a complete waste, as there is a lot of ability to adjust the sound within the Wavelet.

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

I see it differently. Lumin is a server company with a sub standard DAC inside. It makes much more sense to me to go with a 25 year strong High end DAC company with a small streamer inside. It takes great skill to make a killer DAC, little to no skill to make a killer streamer. Lets listen to the Legacy room in Chicago and see how it rates ...

@matthewbarrow3727

2 жыл бұрын

@@OCDHIFiGuy Something that is quite interesting about the Wavelet is that is that the processing is very configurable. The Valor speakers are a 4 way system, with one of the channels controlling the ambient array (back, top, and side firing speaker drivers) with the other 3 channels driving the primary drivers. I found that the tube amp seems to introduce more mains noise when set at a high gain. To reduce this noise, I increased the gain for the Wavelet tube channel by 3dB, and reduced the gains to the other 3 channels by 7dB. I was then able to reduce the gain of the tube amp itself by 10dB. This did mean that I had to use a volume of 75 on the Wavelet instead of 65, so the tube amp was processing more of the primary signal. Of course, people who use this tube amp as an integrated amp would essentially be getting 100% volume from the input source, so this aspect of mains noise is not an issue. There are also 6 frequency bands where one can control the gain by +/- 9dB. All of this adjustment is done in the digital domain. While this does allow one to control the tonal aspects of the sound or sound stage (from the ambient array drivers), aspects like smoothness are handled elsewhere (e.g. with the tube amp).

Show us how close a tweeked cheap unit can get, auralic aeries femto still going strong!

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

Rock On !

If I were to build a streamer I would just build the cheapest PC ever, with little memory and slow pc, but with modern architecture. Just to keep the power requirements low, because that will make it easier to find a good linear power supply. But, linear power supplies can add noise too without enough filtering. Not switching noise, but they might let through noise from the electrical grid, from when the neighbour turns on a microwave oven, or groundloops from your system, for people who like to create in essence a 19 meter ground cable. The quietest amplifier I have ever heard is the Sony V-fet from Nelson Pass, because it is made to be run from switching power supply and has a lot of filtering.

I’ve spent some time with this amplifier and it is indeed excellent, however at 34k msrp “excellence” would represent the bare minimum expectation, the margins here remain enormous Accuphase, Luxman, Gryphon, Pass Labs……amongst many other brands, all offer units which equal or better this amplifier for significantly less

@OCDHIFiGuy

11 ай бұрын

The margins "here" are no different than any of the brands you mention... lol. You make no valid point.

Is there a follow up video about this K50? Curious to know what's the verdict.

@vladimirharant3128

Жыл бұрын

Yeye me2

Hmmm that Roon stuff is not cool business-wise. But if they have the best interface to have you discover new music and improve the 'choose your music' part of the music experience, that will be tough for anyone to catch up with the algorithm they've developed. I'll still try Roon and build the system with it if I really like it. I can understand your pov on this though. Where do you stand with Roon these days?

@OCDHIFiGuy

Жыл бұрын

I still use it every day, but would jump at the chance to ditch it.

I think a top level Lumin with his nas and lps will be ok, even their power amp seems killer. Who is this guys that invent the t amp in India? Luv yo Mike.

Diminishing return!

@OCDHIFiGuy

Жыл бұрын

A good place to be.

It be cool if you took a look at the SOtM streamer to hear what you think.

Agree with you fully, apart from low powered CPU’s. I have a similar set up to you and I have found it to sound as good as these very expensive commercial servers. You should try an Intel K CPU compare to a low power T processor. The K is much more dynamic and a fair amount of this is due to free overhead and low latency. Gaming motherboards also have better (fatter) copper traces so that helps lower impedance. Key thing is also minimising RFI, you have optical so all good there (I use a Singxer as a DDC, so similar approach). You should use use Euphony, very very good. Gentoo Player is also as good and free (last time I looked!). Loads on this over at Audiophilestyle ‘how to build a DIY music server’. Overall Mikey you’re in a good place.

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

Cheers Gavin ! Thanks for the feedback ...

I had an Aurender and now have a Grimm MU1 which sounds significantly better. I have to use Roon though?!?

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

Cool on the first tip, and bummer about ROON.

I got an oddball question for ya- do you haul gear around? What do you haul it in? Reason I ask is I have a Morgan Built Cargo Safe Im thinking about finding a new home for, the right home. What is it?, its the nicest 6x12 high security enclosed cargo trailer ever built. I figure you probably dont leave the 30,000 dollar dac laying on the back seat so just curious how you haul your gear. Todays song suggestion- Get Closer by Glass Petals

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting proposition but I Rarely haul things around and when I do, my auto insurance covers up to $75K of stolen merch..

@freeradical431

2 жыл бұрын

@@OCDHIFiGuy Where do you park your car? lol

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

@@freeradical431 I like the way you think. .lol

Mikey, you should check out Hans Beekhuyzen's KZread review of the Grimm Audio MU1 server (the recent one done in February).

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

Servers make me ill... This is something Im making myself do to put a nail in the coffin and declare it OVER...

@philippelabrecque6658

Жыл бұрын

@@OCDHIFiGuy I love you Mikey, but streamers, to my complete surprise, make a big difference. Let the antipodes burn in for a good 600-750 hours. Mine took a lot of time to burn in but sounds great. They tune the noise of the motherboards to different frequencies to not amplify the noise. Try reading their info pages on the website.. they lay out their techniques... their technique is based on emulating the larger bandwidth of vinyl... it's not all on the clock...

Do different solid state preamps make more sound quality difference (on average) than different servers?

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely. DAC even greater...

@connorduke4619

2 жыл бұрын

@@OCDHIFiGuy Thanks for your reply.

Hi Mikey, how is your investigation about the audio streamers and software?

@OCDHIFiGuy

Жыл бұрын

Dont spend over $4K ;-)

Hey Mike, and where is your final judgment about this antipode streamer?

I connected Roku 3 $100 device to Antipodes CX server ethernet output. I run Plex software on that server and Roku 3 has Plex channel app. Then I plugged $54 Denon earphones into 3.5mm output of the Roku 3 remote. Holly Molly. I was transposed into an Opera House (it is true: before you die you've got to visit an Opera House, to cite Richard Gere in the movie Pretty Woman). I was there in the best seat possible, music flowing around me and there was that feeling "being there" as air molecules around my earphones were telling me. No noise, pure black background. The music was FLAC on a Samsung SSD drive on the Antipodes CX. The drawback? The battery on the Roku 3 remote depleted quickly.

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the feedback !

It definitely looks like an off the shelf board for all the usb on the right. The Ethernet port is red, you will literally only find that on consumer gamer motherboards. It should be opened up to see the truth.

BluOS interface is great 👍

I think anything but USB and toslink and carry clock signal.

Going through some of your previous Presentations I get the Vibe of Frustration with computer guys Mucking up the HiFi Industry! With your Vision Mikey Build It, Brand It "11Stereo:OCD Edition" and Stick it to the Industry! All in One Component! You have Enough Followers to make It Fly!

@OCDHIFiGuy

Жыл бұрын

Thanks man !

Audirvana over dlna to your local streamer is far better sounding that room (I use with sotm 200 ultra + LPS)

This is gonna be good.

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

Gotta get to the bottom of it ..

Hi, Mikey, I'm the OCD Password Forgetting Guy. Here to learn.

Roon servers seem overpriced which is why I don't have one. The server I have has the same processor as the Roon Nucleus plus and costs $1,000 less.

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

U Nailed it Theron...

Murky subject although you are correct

@OCDHIFiGuy

4 ай бұрын

Total Murkiss Von Schnurkiss...

If you use USB class 2 the DAC or a good DDC does the timing. All the stuff about CPU noise and slow down are just "bogey man" ideas.

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

We shall see... ;-)

@johnshaw359

2 жыл бұрын

@@OCDHIFiGuy What you need to find out is what type of clock is used and some technical details when you spend that type of money, not how thick the casework is or how much it weighs, that's smoke and mirrors for the non-technical buyer. I use a DDC with 2 TCXOs, cost about £120 from China, it works with no glitches and I kernel stream from a PC.

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnshaw359 hi John, the problem with that is the parts don't make the piece. China didn't invent Digital Music, and they innovate nothing, only copy. The fact that OCXO has lower jitter than TCXO means nothing, even if they double them up. The magic of a DAC is the Algorithm. The programming in other words and China is crappy at knowing how to make something sound musical. Music is repressed there and music enjoyment is a no no in socialist governed countries. The best Audio gear comes from the fun, freedom loving countries with passion and spice for life.

@johnshaw359

2 жыл бұрын

@@OCDHIFiGuy It means your original wave form gets reproduced correctly and at the right speed, and without short term variations (jitter) in addition to the PLL in the DAC not having to constantly adjust to keep locked to the SP-DIF.

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnshaw359 the DACs I promote have no PLL.

Any follow ups to this promising video !

@OCDHIFiGuy

Жыл бұрын

I did not have it in me to talk smack about any brand in particular. Lets just say I dont believe in servers over $5K

Set up a regular pc with high end ram and fiddle around with memory timings and hear for differences.

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

What are your findings Angel ?

@newdeep19

2 жыл бұрын

@@OCDHIFiGuy well nowadays modern motherboards will train the memory access latency times way too tight as default if you somehow trick the motherboard to use those access times in a lower ram speed the digital glare that you sometimes talk about will fade away and you will get a beautiful sound like a good tape I could give more details in DM. Btw like your channel very much you. Keep it coming!

The server is important but just like cables there's no reason for it to be crazy expensive. Exotic materials and a fancy exterior don't equal good sound quality. We just think it does because that's all we ever see at hifi shows or in magazines. So. Spending above a certain limit and we're just paying for the Ferrari driven by the CEO of the company.

Taiko Extreme is Aight! Not the second coming of Jesus in Audio

So where is the next video on Antipodes?

@OCDHIFiGuy

Жыл бұрын

I don't wish to bash them, so I keep quiet...

Why not build your own server with a Linux OS?

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

I did.... lol

Never bothered with streamers as my playback device is a 1000W gaming PC.

Fast internet, good bandwidth and you’re ok. Wiim Pro works good and is very very inexpensive..with a good fast app. ☕️🍕👍

J River??

Contact Rockna ....they should let you try a good server. Romanian company ...so bit biased but give it a try!

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

I know Nucu well... Ive got a few of his DACs for sale..

@Fane182005

2 жыл бұрын

@@OCDHIFiGuy not impressed then,🤣🤣🤣 you have them because clients traded them for some of your gear ..? My system is by no mean a hi end one...and I'm not searching for the absolute sound. Just a honey like sound....with dark chocolate....with full and thich midrange....with some details...textured bass ...good image and some soundstage. What should my buget be?...or can I come close to this with 5-8-10 k budget..? For example I can apreciate the meze elite ...but enjoy the 99 classic more....if you had a chance to hear them. Texture tone ...and honey like sweet sound...is what I like

MSB has even got one at 120.000$....

@OCDHIFiGuy

Жыл бұрын

That's ridiculous.

Your right, and I don’t like Roon either

Quantum Goop lmao

Roon doesn’t sound as good as my $2800 Auralic that had free software and it’s also not the Jesus software

Audirvana?

@OCDHIFiGuy

Жыл бұрын

Good stuff from what I know.

Experience ruined by Roon? 😂

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

ROON are assholes... as a company... total Dickweeds.. Pain in the ass for any company to get involved with .. Bad JuJu

Screw em all get a CD Transport

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

Not in a million years... Tried it and remembered that I had nearly zero music exploration experience with CD... and badly produced CD's are unlistenable but not that same mix on streaming .... not sure why ..

Wow. Mike. This struck a nerve or I am confused as to where you are coming from. First: Roon. I love Roon. Roon is not bloatware. If you look at ROCK minimum requirements they require like 16GB RAM and a 128GB hard drive. That’s it. Roon is the most robust and high quality music management system out there IMO. Full disclosure: I am a lifetime subscriber. I don’t think there software is hard to run. But that has led to server companies trying to sell us a bunch of crap and when it doesn’t run right blame it on Roon. Next. Servers: YOU were the one, way back who put out the great video that showed that Innuos was FOS. They told me at AXPONA that they use these weak processors that are so cheap you cannot buy them anymore because they make less noise. Well they crashed with Roon. They couldn’t run DSP. It was horrible. I know because I am a *former* owner of a Zenith Mk3 and PhoenixUSB. I ran my Roon core on that Zenith. It was horrible. The reason why they build them the way they do is bc it’s CHEAP! For a pandemic DIY experiment I built some miniPCs. Loaded them with 32GB RAM and a 256GB M.2 SSD. I used a LPS to power it. I put it in a fanless case. I used a good ethernet cable to connect it to a good audiophile switch. It runs Roon ROCK. It sounds at least as good if not better than the Innuos garbage and it doesn’t crash ever. It can do DSP. Everything. It cost me less than $1000 to build that miniPC ROCK server with parts I got from Amazon. I have built a few of these and sold them to audio colleagues on Usaudiomart and they are all thrilled as am I. I have since upgraded my system to an Intel NUC10 i7 with 32GB RAM and 256 GB M.2 SSD in an Akasa Turing fanless case. I am overboard here admittedly, but I am powering it with a Ferum Hypsos hybrid power supply bc it requires 19V and I am having trouble finding a regular old 19V LPS. But folks have also told me that I could use a SMPS on this NUC and there would be no detrimental effect. I currently have this NUC connected with a Shunyata Sigma Ethernet cable to high quality switch. Either the SOtM SNH-10g or the Synergistic Research switch. (I forget. I have both.) The sound is great. Bottomline: I think audio server companies are selling expensive stuff we don’t need and using marketing BS to justify it. This was a real eye opener for me to see that some vendors like Innuos are just out to take advantage of us. As for your $20,000 budget example I would say spend $1000 on an Intel NUC, RAM and SSD. $1000 on a good Ethernet cable. $500-1000 on a good power supply. The rest on a good DAC and switch. But of course you need a good downstream setup to take advantage of the resolution you will get.

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

Yes RJ, you are mirroring my sentiment exactly, EXCEPT; I did a NUC comparison and it was not as good as a Mini ITX with USB output card. USB off a motherboard is noisy. Im of firm belief that a Hotrod audio card is paramount. There is better sounding software than ROON, for instance Antipodes recommends you use Squeeze or whatever its called.. Ive had many people claim ROON can be beat.. It is the easiest one to navigate and the prettiest.... not for long. Im sorry to say this but I hope they get beat.. They deserve it .. I pray someone kicks thier ass up inbetween thier shoulders. Only because of how they treat others in the industry..

@RJ_Chicago

2 жыл бұрын

@@OCDHIFiGuy I did use Squeezlite for a while while it did work on my old Innuos before it stopped working. I liked it. But had had trouble getting it to work again. I guess I can revisit trying to make that work on my NUC ROCK server again. I am running ethernet out off my NUC. But I would be interested to know how much your mini ITX setup costs and if that is a DIY project or do I have to buy that? As for Roon, PS Audio is apparently making their own music management software. But I am becoming less enthralled with them as I watch more audioscience review stuff with Amir showing that their stuff doesn’t have any measurable benefits. I just sold one PowerPlant P12. From the vendor server vendor side I understand their issues with Roon. But I am confused as to what your issues would be with Roon. They don’t make bloatware per what I noted above. The server makers are trying to sell us a bunch of junk. So I don’t see the issue with Roon. You can run it on a NUC! You don’t have to spend thousands on an Innuos or Wolf or whatever. Spend the money on a Rowland amp 😀 (How’d you like that little plug for you? 😀). So I love Roon. I don’t love the pig in a poke server makers. But from the consumer end (me) I like them. This kind of dynamic has played out in multiple areas of the economy: doctors don’t like managed care. Patients may like aspects of it. Legacy auto makers don’t like EVs. But many consumers (like me) love their EV. I have come to realize in this hobby (after a while) that there are things worth spending money on, and there are things that are a waste of money despite a vendor’s hype. By the way, for you and those reading this, the reason I am using the tone that I am using with regard to Innuos (and server makers) is that I feel that Innuos lied to me and betrayed me. Ok. That’s all I got for now…

Ironically MSB even agrees with you. Their $100K + dac has a $3K streamer module... Need I say more? I live in both the hifi world and the computer world. I've seen some "stuff" over the last 20 years. Both worlds steal ideas. Those high cost servers are made for people with money. They want something that looks like it's in the same price class even if it can't outrun a raspberry Pi. ( Audiophile jewelry ) I've been using Linux for 20 years, part of my job too. It can be as beefy or as light weight as you want it to be. Every media server I have built has been Linux based. I started building them as soon as HDTV tuner cards came out almost 20 years ago. My current one is just a DLNA server for music. Building a raspberry Pi endpoint soon for my STAX.

@Burevestnik9M730

2 жыл бұрын

They are free to send their precious DAC to the master of measurements no-strings-attached, Mr. Amir of Audio Science Review.

Just look at pathetic corporate prebuilt gaming PCs. Plenty of videos about how they suck. Even Alienware.

Man roon sounds like they did those companies dirty.

Nein nein The Sound Mafia is not happy with this video! You will be banned from Stereophile! Some say that is a fate worse than death!!

Really sad that young people don’t appreciate the joy & pride of building a physical media music library, they’re cheap individuals.

@OCDHIFiGuy

Жыл бұрын

No, they are efficient and smarter than you or I in the regard that we collect "stuff" that will mean nothing to us at our eventual death. Memories are FAR more valuable than "Stuff" .... you'll see..

So right on Mickey, Roon blows chunks!@

Com’on be serious …

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

Please say what you really want to say .... this means nothing .

Your rant re Roon is so far off base that I'm not even going to go there. I use JRiver, but having worked in software development I know how much work goes into building a product that people are willing to pay money for - RAAT is a major improvement over UPnP and the rest is up to the consumer. The music server market is different IMO, but you've been kicking around this hobby long enough to know that there are still audiophiles who equate price with performance. Your statement re audio manufacturers staying in their lane and respecting one another's tech is laughable but clearly you're in rant mode - carry on.

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

LOL, Glad you have a different opinion. Im right on MY Base my friend.. ROON are dickheads, regardless of sound. I plan to find what sounds better as many people have reported there is better sounding software. I heard Taiko software sound better than ROON on the same machine ..

@spvlinn9009

2 жыл бұрын

A bit lost. In my case 1. a simple NAS/mini-server as a server. It’s a server store 0 and 1s. a hard disc with a little cpu on it. doesn’t make a jack difference. 2. a UPnP based streamer/DAC plays music. DAC-yes. Streamer-yes in less extend. Not 100% sure…. My understanding is server and streamer are different things. Am I wrong?

@arthurwatts1680

2 жыл бұрын

@@spvlinn9009 The terms have been thrown together over the last few years, but for any kind of *distributed* audio that I'm aware of you can't have one without the other. I far prefer the terminology Roon uses but given Mikey's feelings on Roon Inc I'll leave it there.

@spvlinn9009

2 жыл бұрын

@@arthurwatts1680 I just don't understand what' s deal with a 'server'. It's just a storage device w a minimum cpu store 0 and 1s. $200 vs 10k, no difference. But audio parts streamer/dac should make differences. That's exactly Naim/Linn are doing. Take care audio parts let customer dealing w so called 'server' part. Also I use Linn free software called 'kazoo' to control my DS player without roon. What exactly I am missing?

Naysayer. My perception is u hate everything.

@OCDHIFiGuy

Жыл бұрын

Except for myself... :-) lol

@peteapostolides9565

Жыл бұрын

@@OCDHIFiGuy Carry on, I'll continue to watch. Good luck

To hell with rooooon

@OCDHIFiGuy

10 ай бұрын

I wish... lol

Wait- what!

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

Werd up ...

you think your cable make more han a realy good streamer i think you dont test a really god streamer . dont like roon either but hqplayer is really god 🙃

You are way out of your league talking about computers/processors. I have over 43 years in the computer field using almost every OS from mainframe to arm (except windows, never touch that toy of an OS). The days of tiny/slow single core procs are gone. Any OS has overhead, I dont care which 1 you use. There is much more going on while running music software: Roon, audirvana, etc than just reading and sending out data packets to a dac. If you want an old fashion single core processor, buy intel, want new technology: get a ryzen or Apple silicon Mx series system on a chip design. Things you don’t get that are very important: * if you swap everything suffers. How do you are swapping/paging? * are the important things indexed and reside in memory or on a solid state storage device? * what’s the load on the cpus/cores? Are you cpu bound? Are you taking advantage of all the cores/cpus? You do know that Linux is fairly hard to learn and use unless you get the desktop version then according to you, you have all of the extra processes going on like on Mac and windows. Do you know vi? Do you know how to tune Linux? I have dozens of white papers on how to tune Linux for large servers used in large enterprises. If you look at some of these Linux servers people buy, the user can’t even look at the system stats! That is nuts, how does anybody know how the system is running/performing? Is a new release of Roon taking up resources that just consumes all resources over time and the system halts? Are you swapping/paging? 99% of all users who buy a proprietary Linux music server/streamer will never know these things. NUCs are old technology. I agree with a poster above, usb is the worst interface to use for a dac. I use i2s from a Linux box to a fantastic fpga dac. If I wasn’t using i2s, I’d be using Ethernet. If you want to run Linux, you can run it on any ryzen or Mx processor and be in control of how the system runs. No 3rd party music server vendor can see inside your system while it’s running so if you are having any problems, you will be guessing on what’s going on.

@OCDHIFiGuy

Ай бұрын

Guess who doesn't give a shit ??? Lol. Exactly. Thanks for your opinion...

JRiver?

@fitsman

2 жыл бұрын

I have no idea what he is talking about. Roon will run with ease on an i3 with little memory on a NUC. If u don’t like DSP turn it off it does not use up cpu. If you want the features roon offers which Mikey did NOT talk about then use it. Others have mentioned this as well if you just want to stream your library it’s over kill. I to don’t believe in 20k streamers. KISS is there too. Simple Rendu. He says it’s easy to make. Many cannot do it. He is a geek (so am I) and I could build it too. I choose to make a NUC. Software companies are about features. Nothing sells without it. RPii work with Roon too. BTW he said spend 3K on server. I spent less than 2k on a Roon server. Lifetime sub RPi and an iPad. So I have no idea why he compares Roon to these 20k things. Not the same category. Many run Roon on their computers they use for personal stuff. Most those Uber expensive servers are high end dacs too. I went with separates as Mikey likes. Swap parts as needed. Many just want plug and play. I love his anti corp money grabbing companies like Di$ney but I don’t think Roon is one of them. Standardizing on a protocol that can handle all audio streams that exist makes it easy to work with. Maybe we should say the same about TCPIP. Yeah many love Jriver and it works great. But you need a computer with updates and many hate computers and don’t get it. I work with them for a live if and I refuse to have to use a computer. It’s just a total PIA. Like him it’s my opinion. But they are not just glorified computers. At least he is finding that out.

@wilbertiii

2 жыл бұрын

I would like to replace windows 10 with a linux distro(the best distro for audio playback ?), running JRiver(ripping CD's) REW, and minidsp interface, and internet access. This is all this computer will need to do. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

You complain about corporations and greed and profits which is all geared towards what’s the latest and greatest and the newest gimmick, including DSP, ROON, etc. why follow them ? Screw them if you are for real! Why not just stick with CDs, transports, DACs, and turntables. Hearing is an analog experience.

Ukraine makes the best servers, because it is the new best country ever. Best of everything, I've loved Ukraine for years but just found on where they were on the map. Wish I could buy all their servers, would be great if they made discrete Op Amps. Please send money to Ukraine. I love Ukraine.

@OCDHIFiGuy

2 жыл бұрын

LOL, Stop watching the news, its detrimental to your health .. ;-)