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I cried myself to sleep last night because I’m probably bi and felt like it was either my sexuality or my faith and my family. The road is still long and hard but I just want to say thank you.

@brittdavis1

3 жыл бұрын

You can have both, you dont have to choose. 💜

@fletcheranaclara

3 жыл бұрын

and know that you have community to travel this long road ahead. if not anywhere else, in me. this is a hard road but still beautiful and special & that you deserve to tread :)

@FaiaHalo

3 жыл бұрын

It's so disgusting what religion does to people as pure as you. It tears them apart. It did the same to me years ago. I've been nontheist (mainly the hegemonic abrahamic god) for two years now and I've never felt more freer and happier. A lot of people don't realize that you don't need a god that committs mass murder of innocents in the bible or a religion that has oppressed and k-lled people for centuries (still does) to be a humanistic person. Secular humanism and animal rights advocacy (as well) exists and puts NO shame on you or any of your loved ones and communities.

@pretty-lb2qx

3 жыл бұрын

@Broke Dawn You have have you own beliefs but just respect others. You don't have to believe in God but if others choose to just respect their choice even if you don't understand it.

@pretty-lb2qx

3 жыл бұрын

@@FaiaHalo Can i ask you a question? When did God commit a mass murder of innocent people in the bible?

Folks love to do everything they think the Bible said but mind their business and treat people right.

@Na2Ocean

3 жыл бұрын

💯

@_Spicymorenita

3 жыл бұрын

That part 🎯

@jermen5137

3 жыл бұрын

Right!!! Ugh

@Kyethecreator

3 жыл бұрын

Say it louder for the folks who don’t want to hear it! 🙌🏾

@reginaldfairfield

3 жыл бұрын

This.

The whole idea of an "ex-homosexual" is so scary and disturbing

@imanigordon6803

3 жыл бұрын

jay how is it disturbing? you’d think that a partnership that god didn’t intend to be would be disturbing but 🤷🏾‍♂️

@jaybrielz9244

3 жыл бұрын

@@imanigordon6803 Life is too short to be living a lie. People shouldn't be told that their inherent being and pursuit of happiness is bad, especially since it negatively impacts no one. People shouldn't be pressured into relationships that have no genuine attraction or love just because they are perceived as "normal". Being preached that acting upon your your natural and harmless feelings is completely destructive to your psyche and self worth even if you eventually give into what has been told to you and become an "ex-homosexual". If one wants to become an "ex-homosexual", it should be entirely based upon what they alone want in life and not based on others' perception of them, or out of fear. I already know this won't change your opinion on the matter so this is all I will say.

@imanigordon6803

3 жыл бұрын

jay all I’m saying if Jackie wants to be an ex homosexual let her be that and also let anyone that does otherwise lives as well. I just refuse to allow people to misconstrue the Bible and gods words because they want their reality to be correct 🤷🏾‍♂️ god made eve to be the other half of Adam that’s the law of nature in every facet of life on this planet. If you wanna be homosexual be that! But if your intentions are to say that the law of nature and dawn of man isn’t correct because you wanna have sex with the same sex, so your willing to change anything to represent your reality that’s where I see you as a false prophet. I agree to disagree 👌🏾

@natmarie4300

3 жыл бұрын

Imani Gordon though female/male relationships are the norm in most animals (including humans), there are also instances of same sex couplings. Yes, the exception does not make the rule but this is not a moral argument. That is nature. www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150206-are-there-any-homosexual-animals

@snuffulupagusprime

3 жыл бұрын

There are several heterosexual partnerships that god didn’t intend to be so what’s your point.

Pain does not make us more worthy of God's love. Whew chile.

I absolutely love this conversation. It is not often we talk about Christianity from a Black, womanist perspective. They are absolutely right. As Black folks, our religious experience is often more expansive than just the Bible. I would love more discussions about this. And I'm glad to see this movement

@SoulQueenWu

3 жыл бұрын

FACTS!

This video summed up so many ideas I've had regarding faith and sexuality. I have a friend who decided in January to repress her bisexuality as part of her returning to Christianity, and I think this video would be really useful to her. For anyone out there in a tough situation: you are loved, and if you feel you have to repress who you love in order for God to love you, you are mistaken.

@syds8752

3 жыл бұрын

Damnit this is beautiful

@Awesomepossum233

3 жыл бұрын

Amen.

@queenmercy3135

3 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately, there are people that look like you that don't have your best interest at ❤️. Your a demonic force for her. Stay AWAY.

@talkswithali

3 жыл бұрын

@@queenmercy3135 lmaooo, sush

@eyecandymetirua5238

3 жыл бұрын

@@queenmercy3135 You are the only demon here💯

"Our nation has not prepared critical thinkers" - Say it Again for the people in the back!

When Candace said black women have to stop making ourselves into Jr. Christ figures. SHEESH! 😭

As a *not straight* person that was raised in a fundamental Christian home this was truly a blessing to hear. I cried multiple times. Thank you for the interview and having those powerful, warm, intelligent humans speak light and hope into my heart🖤

@samuri2011

2 жыл бұрын

Same here 😭😭😭😭💕💕

I am personally a non religious person but if Jesus say did come back, he wouldn't agree with or share the same values as the conservative, evangelical, prosperity gospel Christians.

@abracadaverous

3 жыл бұрын

Sometimes I wonder if he hasn't been back already, but nobody recognized him, because maybe he was born quietly into poverty instead of showing up with fanfare and parades and piles of money and superhero powers

@godsuniqorn1043

3 жыл бұрын

I agree

@seamstressdragon8707

3 жыл бұрын

@@abracadaverous There was a debate on Intelligence Squared where the topic was 'Is the Catholic Church a Force for Good?' Stephen Fry who was arguing against the question said 'Do you know who would be the last person to be accepted as a prince of the church? The Galilean carpenter, that Jew, they would kick him out before he tried to cross the threshold.'

Y’all took me to church today! Like this is the type of church I want to attend. Where we aren’t just reading off text in the context of the white supremacist systems that impose that text onto us but really getting down to the bare bones of community and love and the human experience improving the human condition like Christ did. Challenging empires and systemic structures. Radical love.

@j.c.6573

3 жыл бұрын

Great comment! I feel the same

@niesta8843

3 жыл бұрын

Ditto

@michaelsnipper6336

Жыл бұрын

Ru crazy these chicks trying to redefine the Bible that they just zipped through. Do they know everyone in the Bible besides Esau is a person of color. The Bible is straight forward and women especially black women get into their feelings instead of fact bc the Bible condemns their lifestyle these women going to hell

Homosexuality does not actually appear in the Bible. It was changed with a mistranslation. The original wording actually means "boy molesters". It was condemning the practice of coupling men with young boys. This was later CHANGED to homosexual in the 1946 translation, but that was not the prior contextualization and had never been.

@brieoliver

3 жыл бұрын

@@bibaolaitan5189 Straight couples practice sodomy too, hun. A type of sexual act is not specific to any one coupling.

@bluebird1694

3 жыл бұрын

@@bibaolaitan5189 are you only reffering to qnal? Because oral technically counts as that too.

@aamia3769

3 жыл бұрын

Ok, if that was changed then what else was changed? And how do you decipher what to believe in the Bible and what was changed? This is a slippery slope.

@SteppingOut957

3 жыл бұрын

Reference? Never heard of this.

@bluebird1694

3 жыл бұрын

@@SteppingOut957 the bible was not originally in English hon. Certain things got edited or mistranslsted from the original texts. You can research this stuff yourself, it's all over the net.

A lot of people misrepresent what Jesus is truly about and believed, and focus on bigotry and telling people they’re “living in sin” for being gay, instead of gentrification, homelessness and material conditions not improving which is the real issue.

@dariusd2003

3 жыл бұрын

Speak on it. I've seen parents abandon their children and throw them out because of their "faith". I don't get it.

@smilesandsg

3 жыл бұрын

dariusd2003 it is not faith. People can’t see that no matter what faith they exist within, their politics (racism homophobia etc) determines the actions they take, but instead they wrongly hide behind the name of God in their hate.

@blakea.e.1681

3 жыл бұрын

Why wouldn't God fix all of these terrible things happening if he was actually good?

@talkswithali

3 жыл бұрын

@@blakea.e.1681 now... that's the question of the damn century

@daseanclark5462

3 жыл бұрын

Jesus focused on both, most of the miracles in the gospels He focused on their human needs first (feeding the 4k/5k, water to wine, calming the storm, etc.) then He addressed their spiritual needs. When addressing the woman caught in adultery, He told the men off, then once they walked away He told her to go and sin no more. Both social reform and freedom from sin are real issues, it's not one or the other. I think most christians will agree that, other than the unfairness of life, it's usually sin causing the social issues though.

The replay value on this is just *chef’s kiss* 💕

This is my second time watching this video, and I deeply appreciate it. I teach freshman English, and I often urge my students to “read rhetorically”. When I heard Candace and Zora explain how we don’t read the Bible through a contextual lens, I was reminded of this. I was also thinking of this: a lot of times, we reduce the Bible to a discussion of sin without taking into account that love is the foundation of Christianity. The evangelical wing of our faith often conveniently ignores how focused Jesus was on love (I think of Matthew 22:37), and they ignore just how radical it was for Him to be focused in this way. Sin is that which separates us from God’s love, and, honestly, the Bible is consistent in asserting that. When we train our efforts on policing people’s actions, it allows us to ignore the work we have to do within ourselves to root out anything that is not aligned with love.

@brieoliver

3 жыл бұрын

THANK YOU! Love is such a central message in the Bible that it absolutely shocks me folks still can't get it together. Above all else, our job has always been to love one another. That's it. So much of our problems would be solved if we refocused on that key message.

@jay_bee7681

3 жыл бұрын

Jesus told the disciples that he leaves them (us) with the greatest commandment, that we love one another as he has loved us.

WOW - I'm not religious but I grew up in church and i find Candice's interpretation of sin SO REFRESHING

@realSeyitan

3 жыл бұрын

I like that you said "Candace interpretation".

I loved hearing Candance speak. The “he makes the good henny keep flowing” was such funny yet meaningful line.

“Black women don’t get to be women.” TEARS. Just, tears. Thank you for this.

@mikegrady5420

3 жыл бұрын

What who is stopping you. Stop that blood clot crying 😢 😢

@rasdt2874

Жыл бұрын

@@mikegrady5420 nobody is literally stopping it but nobody is validating it and almost everybody is enabling it.

They ate this topic UP! I love how they recognized octavia butler’s and toni morrison’s and other black authors’ works as sacred. Its like restoring power to these penetrative works. Ive never even thought of the power of these texts to that degree but when i reflect on reading them the emotions they evoke and the way they bring us together is sacred!

I would be interested to hear from non-Christian speakers, as not all Black Americans are Christians (many are Muslim). I'm not Christian, but it was interesting to hear that perspective 😊

@sofiavillalba2404

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, please, for ONCE

Can we talk about how awesome it sounds to say "I have a master's in divinity"

2 things..... and i say this with the upmost respect 1) I think that u should reevaluate the arguments that Jackie Hill Perry has said. She makes many of the same "communal" arguments that both ladies of the panel actually brought up in regards to "Sin". 2) in regards to sin, how do u rectify your understanding of Sin in the context of scripture?? I believe that it is important for Christians to craft our arguments WITHIN the biblical context. The entire point of the Gospel ( If this is The spiritual Worldview that you adhere to) is that Christ came to redeem Mankind from Sin. The problem of sin is a major aspect of our Doctrine. We can't ignore it, and trying to recontexualize it changes the Doctrine

@VivianeBossina

3 жыл бұрын

I absolutely agree. We cannot redefine what sin is because it makes us uncomfortable.

Kim, you have done beautifully with curating a space of knowledge, cos wow, these women inspired me to read more.

This discussion was absolutely beautiful and I enjoyed it so much. If I had heard their voices and perspectives when I came out, I may not have decided Church/Christianity wasn’t for me. I may not have so much church related trauma that the thought of even sitting in a church feels like one of the most unsafe places, and makes me want to run and hide. I loved listening and learning from this discussion. They give me hope. I would join any community that they are a part of.

KevOnStage and his wife and his whole brand gave me faith in the black progressive Christian community again. I appreciate all y'all!

Good discussion, and much-needed! I think that when discussing "the word of God", we should be mindful of how the Bible has been re-written with certain sections added or adjusted over the centuries to suit narratives. Let's also not forget the many translations of the Bible, begining with ancient Greek...that's a lot of room for mistranslations. I'm very hesitant to say anything is the pure "word of God" , and that's before you add how the Bible has been used for colonialism/slavery/oppression in general.

It's troubling that even from the beginning with the conversation about sin, that personal opinion takes precedence over what the Bible says in biblical context. If you don't agree with what the Bible says, changing the meanings of things to fit personal opinion just turn the conversation into a different conversation. Even though white evangelicals have perverted the Christian religion (which is wrong) to suit themselves, it's just as wrong to do the same as black people to fit our comfort. These things don't address biblical theology, because they are not based on the Bible, but they are spoken of as if they are under the umbrella of Christianity.

@Fortheloveofcoils

3 жыл бұрын

I agree said a similar thing earlier in the comments

@nerdfantasyxox

3 жыл бұрын

I’m not religious yet totally agree. You can’t just change context to fit your own comfort. This is why I’m not religious. I literally find the book contradicting and it continuously has proven to have racist, sexist and homophobic views contradicting it’s so called message of love. And it’s sold as fact without any proof of any legitimate evidence of any of the acts it speaks on vs scientific evidence of the world and its history. I know you are stating this comment as a religious person, but your statement is actually the very reason why non religious people like me exist to begin with...

@VirtuouSilhouette

3 жыл бұрын

@@nerdfantasyxox I hear you and yes, I am a devout Christian. If you are interested and have time there's a great documentary the I saw on Facebook called American Gospel: Christ alone. It talks about how Christianity was twisted to fit the agenda of people who used it the wrong ways in America. There is also the movie called Case for Christ where a journalist tried to disprove Jesus' existence and crucifixion, he couldn't and became a believer. I'm sharing that in the hope to mend some of the tension you have, not for conflict. I can understand how you have come to your conclusion and I hope to impress upon you that the harm done by the "religious people" doesn't actually reflect the message of Christ. It's hard to separate at times, but there is a difference. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ Love to you. Stay safe.

@nerdfantasyxox

3 жыл бұрын

MrsCherrae I appreciate the offer, the thing is I really have looked into it, and my views have nothing to do with disproving the existence of god. It’s about proving his existence with actual evidence. It’s more about showing valid proof of the conception of the world and interactions of people as the Bible states it to be that there has yet to be any proof without contradictions evidence of other things that do exist that the Bible can’t seem to account for. Yes American Christians may have twisted it some, but inherently it’s original context is still flawed, I’m sorry but it just is... and even it’s original context is well... toxic. It’s inherently a non black religion introduced to west and East African sectors many many years ago that just stuck... not that African spirituality was any less toxic, but Christianity for black people specifically was inherently always meant to be racist and sexist. Either way, please continue to enjoy what makes you feel whole and safe the way you want to enjoy it.

@Fortheloveofcoils

3 жыл бұрын

meka sky I can see your point. Trust me I am in a Christian vs atheist discussion group and I encounter these things all the time and have pretty mean encounters with atheist even got called racist things and derogatory statements just for being a Christian and believing in the Bible. So it really goes both ways to be honest. You find good representatives in some and bad representatives in others that’s EVERYWHERE. That’s why I try not to stereotype a whole group of people regardless of anything cuz how bias works and how there is different perspectives in each group and not everyone is the same. So I don’t categorize all atheist even though majority of discussions where I was called all those things or treated that way was from atheist because I know they are not the representative. Also that’s your opinion on the Bible and you’re right to have that opinion for sure. I disagree of course cus I think the words you used often today are misused and often become broad statements. Like racism, Christians and Catholics in the past have used it to justify slavery of a certain people group. But they were racist not the Bible. Racism is a system and that system was the government. Next sexist, same point. People have used it by misinterpreting the text with already bias sexist views. But that again is false unless sexism is defined by your own standards and not the actual definition then one can’t argue that. Same with homophobic. There is no homophobic verses in the bible unless again you apply that to your own standards and what you view homophobic means. Cuz homophobic is a psychological fear of gay people. The Bible does not teach to fear sin or sinners. Look at Jesus and the prophets for example they were surrounded by them everyday. So that’s contrary. The Bible one could also say it’s sex-phobic cus of sec outside of marriage, animal sex-phobic, pedo-phobic, adultery-phobic, murder-phobic and one can go one... The Bible is giving us a knowledge of sin and the divine law of God NOT fear of sin or sinners. We are actually told not to fear. So none of those accusations are supported in the Bible if we are arguing Biblical doctrines and definitions.

So many folks need to hear this. So so many. The interview disturbed my soul in ways I didn’t have the language for. Thank you for walking me thru my feelings. I turned off that video just feeling that the lord I serve does not want that limited existence for us. He wants us to live in the fullness of the Holy Spirit. Thank you for this.

@queenmercy3135

3 жыл бұрын

That wasn't the Lord. 👀

@adwoamk8918

3 жыл бұрын

@@queenmercy3135 Say it again, this is crazy.

@vibe2248

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah this whole conversation disturbed me. Trust me I definitely feel like the Holy Spirit is dealing with me & ummm I know for sure when I’m even just thinking about things of my flesh & of this world he lets me know that I shouldn’t b doing it if it’s not about the lord. So I’m thinking these ppl need to pray some more.

@tamaracharese

3 жыл бұрын

@@vibe2248 your God and my God are completely different obviously; bless your journey

@tamaracharese

3 жыл бұрын

@D for Daphne and I’m blessed. That is also apparent.

I feel like I get a whole free university lecture every time I watch your videos.

When Candace and Zora talked about how we are not taught to critically think about the scripture it reminded me of how adults shamed me for questioning the bible. I never had thoughtful conversations about christianity because it was sinful in the eyes of my church elders. I loved this conversation.

they articulated things i didn’t have the language for but have always felt. i need to listen to this over and over

I'm Christian and in the LGBTQ+ community, but don't think Kev should have took the video down. I think we should hear both sides and go to the Bible first. And although I didn't necessarily agree with Perry's conclusion and all the opinions she holds, I still love listening to many different sides of a coin and there were things I did agree with. I just think we should be inclusive and understanding of everyone

@Noloyiso_M

3 жыл бұрын

People don't like hearing opposing views, it's wild I think, but i think it comes from an assumption that if our opinions differ, than we are a threat to each other. Which I don't believe is always true.

Love this! Would love to see you talk to Candice Benbow also, she was on kev’s channel too talking about theology

@iamlaurengill

3 жыл бұрын

Chile the saints all but called Candice the devil

This conversation brought tears to my eyes it was so good!!! Ughhhhhhhhhhhh! ❤️❤️❤️

This wisdom has my heart pounding, such love in this conversation ❤️

I sincerely wish I had more ministers like these women in my life.

ugh, this was such a beautiful conversation. had to watch it twice and thrice just to make notes and digest everything that was said. thank you Candace, Zora and you too Kim x

Drunk off all the times Zora mentioned the word 'right'

Free yourself from the shackles of monotheistic religion if your truly want to be liberated mentally, spiritually, and sexually. African descendants should not be trying to use the language of the Bible, Quran, or Torah to derive direction or meaning in how they express their consciousness on this Earth. Connect to nature, ground yourself, and look within. You already have all the answers to attract the outcome in which you desire and to live in harmony with your brothers and sisters. Peace ✌🏿

@blvckzulu9469

3 жыл бұрын

Freckle doesnt matter where they originated or if the people in the stories are African. If you are bound by doctrine you are always going to be limited in your connection to higher consciousness or in the way you can express your own consciousness. They all are derivatives and dilutions of even older teachings and religion will always be a way to separate us regardless if many still find communion in their various religions. Find self and author your reality love 🙂

@tmaposa2229

3 жыл бұрын

Some African religions are monotheistic though. Also Christianity is not white. There are no white ppl in the bible. The location of the garden of Eden is described in the book of Genesis as being in a place called Cush.

@blvckzulu9469

3 жыл бұрын

T Maposa that’s fine but there’s a difference between subscribing to a doctrine that personifies an omnipotent and omniscient being as a singular entity that displays human characteristics and between believing in a universal presence that exists within everything and at the same time has individual expressions of itself. I understand where you’re coming from, but to address your comment. I singled out these religions specifically due to the widespread negative impact and implications these doctrines have had on African people historically and how they continue to hamper our societal development and spiritual ascension presently. You are correct when discussing the ethnicity of people’s mentioned in the stories of the Bible, but it doesn’t change the fact that the text itself is wholly derivative from previous spiritual beliefs and practices with influence from European society. The traditional African religions I’ve studied typically are what you call Monotheistic but they have other deities or spirits that embody specific aspects of the “monotheistic god” you reference but are recognized, revered, and worshipped in a specific and separate manner with respect to the original source. There’s a difference to be appreciated here family. Peace ✌🏿

I listened to this and thought of “prosperity preaching” Trying to make everything sound good and easy. Jesus went through trials and tribulations. Jesus had to withstand temptation. Do y’all think that those of us who call ourselves Christians won’t have to do the same. Everybody has their “sin of choice” that’s hard to shake.

@DeeDee-zu2pv

3 жыл бұрын

One's identity is not a "sin of choice". Christians like you are the reason young black people are leaving the church in droves.

@k.alvarado6237

3 жыл бұрын

Dee Dee - If you identify with something God is against.... its a sin.

@jermen5137

3 жыл бұрын

A persons sexuality isn’t a “sin of choice” simply because it’s not a choice....so what you even talking about. Some of y’all need to think before you speak.

@k.alvarado6237

3 жыл бұрын

Jermen - acting on those feelings is a sin. What’s “natural” to you can be sinful. People are straight up pedophiles . I’m sure they would say they are born this way and it’s their sexuality. Still acting on it is wrong.

@cher_melancholy

3 жыл бұрын

K Aaron Why are you comparing pedophilia to grown people having attraction to other adults?

This conversation is something that I wish all religious people could sit and watch and truly consider. They seem to disregard so much or reality and nature, but live completely by unquestioned traditions and word of mouth teachings and that has been very harmful and dangerous. And I love that this conversation included the context of race within this country because we have a different experience with religion that seems to be paired with fear, survival, and suffering that has uniquely created way too many contradictions, and has allowed self hate, and outward violence to be so common thing within the Black American community.

This is so awesome. I feel like I'm learning so much through Kim's videos. And they are such complicated topics! Like, I'm going to have to listen to this twice to catch what I missed!

I took so many notes with tears in my eyes. Thank you so much 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽

Man this has truly inspired me to go back to reading my bible. This conversation were thoughts and pondering I did not have the words for, thank you so much Kim, Candance and Zora. This is so important.

I am so thankful for this space you have created Kimberly. And I am thankful for Candace and Zora for their generosity. What this conversation does is beyond words and yet the words are right at my fingertips: present, embodied, and alive. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!

I so appreciate the work Candace and Zora do in community and in faith space. I am also appreciative of the care that they take with the sacred text and the people who have spent their lives wrestling with the text and it’s implications for their lives, even while knowing a God who is with them (despite alternative commentary). Asé to the healing their words bring.

"Those categories don't serve us, including those genres (of the human) and gender categories". Zora Hamsa (Wynter and Spillers told us)

There’s so much food to eat in this talk ❤️ I love Candace’s point about how critical thinking is suppressed in our society and, yes, we’re so uncomfortable with understanding that amplification and criticism can exist in the same space. It also resonated with me that we are meant to love our flesh and take delight in what we consume with the intention of honoring and respecting it. And the point about us being born into a system of sin that keeps us from flourishing - yes ma’am! And I loved hearing it finally be acknowledged that we are essentially getting the word of Bible through a game of telephone and it has gone through multiple translations, so it’s important to see it through the lens that the text has had various interpretations, and the white evangelical interpretation isn’t intended to benefit black people in any capacity. There’s a lot of healing in these messages. Bless y’all!

This was amaaazzzzing!!!! I have to watch again, it had so many deep considerations that I will reflect on then watch again.

Love the quote from Candace: I need to get out of here alive and well.

I think it would have been interesting to have someone who share the same thoughts as Jackie Hill Perry, or ven Jackie herself, to have been part of this discussion. Candace and Zora pretty much have the same views so it was really just one perspective we got to hear

@ManningInterpreter

3 жыл бұрын

It could have been interesting, yes. But, you can google any Christian video and find those thoughts and beliefs. Jackie’s perspective is the predominant view. Having two of these opposing voices on is huge, because you’ll rarely find individuals espousing their amazing views in any mainstream way, which is sad and so unfortunate. They are rare, but so important. Jackie is just the new face of the same view that has been predominate for years. Yes, she has some unique perspectives, but it’s mostly a new spokesperson for the same old stuff. I also just think that Jackie and these two individuals work from SUCH a different underlying premise that it wouldn’t be a super fruitful discussion.

@shakeitlikeanaries128

3 жыл бұрын

@@ManningInterpreter Yess, debate between opposing parties isn't always more insightful. After this deepdive that I haven't heard before as a listener you can reflect for yourself how it relates to other views that can easily be heard on other platforms. Practice the critical thinking that these two women preach.

This was amazing!!! Thank you Kim!!

Ugh! I'm so glad you had this conversation. A few weeks ago, I was looking for discussions about the kevonstage video/affirming the LGBTQ+ community while serving God but all I found was "love the sinner, hate the sin" propaganda. Thanks, Kim

My friend asked me to watch, glad I listened to her. Phenomenal video.

I usually never comment , but this conversation has brought me so much joy. Thank you

Thank you so much for this discussion!

To be fair, Kevonstage ALSO had Candice Benbow on. Her perspective is ALOT more akin to these ladies’. He was trying to get a lot of different perspectives.

@GeeSmith333

3 жыл бұрын

Yes! I loved her talk. I actually liked the series he was starting to do and I hate that he stalled it. It's interesting to see how different everyone's personal walk with God is.

@swiggs_7

3 жыл бұрын

True. But it was cowardly of him to remove JHP's interview.

@23ahndra

3 жыл бұрын

S W it was the opposite of cowardly. He took it down because he saw that it was causing literal HARM to people. He was trying to do the RIGHT thing.

@swiggs_7

3 жыл бұрын

@@23ahndra It was not causing harm. People could either watch it or not. People did not like it because they felt invalidated by another person who made the choice to not act out on same sex attraction. That's it. As a Black woman, there are is a ton of harmful content on this platform, I can either engage with it or not.

@swiggs_7

3 жыл бұрын

@@23ahndra Plus Candace Benbow is blasphemous and many of Kev's followers expressed dismay over the interview...but Kev kept it on his channel anyway.

Zora - we are not the congregation. You can talk regularly and the message will still be received.

I had to keep pausing to process this, it's so good

Thank you for facilitating this Kimberly. Thank You

This was an award-winning conversation. Chills, chills chills 🥶 I feel my super powers growing!

This was an amazing discussion. Thank you.

This is so golden! So well spoke! So good!

Watching this after watching the Austin Channing Brown has made me realise that for us in Africa, our Christianity is modeled after the white evangelical due to missionaries and colonialism. Our Christian religious practices are individualistic and hateful. I am not religious but whew a realisation all the same.

Your work is just incredible, I've loved seeing all these wonderful thinkers and activists having nuanced, thoughtful conversations on your channel, especially recently. My to read book list has grown with every video and I'm so glad to have access to such empowering, insightful, inspirational discussions. Wish I could support you more on patreon but my $2 a month is all I can spare right now. Thank you for all your work!!

I’m not ashamed to say that I consider myself gay, but most this conversation went over my head. Im glad though because I want to know more and explore much of what they were saying.

@brittdavis1

3 жыл бұрын

Lol i was just telling my wife (who is a very knowledgeable christian) this last night. I not bible familiar so yeah, the biblical part of it went over my head too. But it was a great educational convo 👌🏾🌈

Zora said"right" so many times. Lol I loved this talk, though.

@KiaFlow

3 жыл бұрын

I can't stop hearing it, but I also relate because I say "ummm" or "you know what I'm saying" a lot when I'm speaking off the dome! She lowkey preaching 🤣❤🖤

this is a great conversation thank you

This was fab, thank you!

“Is Jesus hazing you?” Lmao

Count how many times you hear 'right,' right? Take a shot every time. You'd be dead, right? Also, this conversation is, quintessentially, foundational as a turning point for holistic healing within our species. Y'all did that.

@yvvngmlaba

3 жыл бұрын

deadass x

@harmony323

3 жыл бұрын

Omg I noticed that too. Is this a new trend for academic types to constantly use the word “right”??

@maryriver2311

3 жыл бұрын

Omg it hurt my spirit to keep hearing her say right right RIGHT RIGHT. Kim may say it every once in a while but this lady overdid it, RIGHT?

@tamerraj6381

3 жыл бұрын

Sooo distracting

@josryder7841

3 жыл бұрын

I knew I couldn’t be the only one...and once you focus in on it you cant UNHEAR IT😩. Is this some new Black academic tic?

This was great!!!

Thanks for this episode. I know of a Black transwoman who has come to the conclusion that Black cis women treat her terribly, white women and men have been wonderful to her, so she's written off the sistas as trash. I hope she sees this video.

Thank you for hosting this nuanced and healing conversation

im so grateful you three shared your message of love w us

I cried happy tears while listening to them speak. Thank you 💛

The discussion of the dissociation of the flesh from the spirit is something that I have been thinking about for a while and it it so useful! 40:30. The bit ends at 49:20. I did not agree with every part, but I do feel that the metal detachment from our bodies as a part of our spiritually is both harmful to the psyche and contradictory to some of the teaching within Christianity. Case in point. The concept of Soul Ties.

That was awesome !!!!

These conversations are always valuable... we do need to hear from different brands of Christianity...& there are MANY... Jackie Hill Perry is NOT a universalist, like Candice... they see God different, they see scripture differently, they see sin differently... They are different types of Christians... it’s really simple! These women’s definitions of sin alone... are enough to understand that they are just a different type of Christian.... & in the words of Tabitha Brown... THAT IS THEY BUSINESS 🤷🏾‍♀️ Just like Jackie can follow Jesus in the ways she believes He has called her.... Jackie is not the only person who believes as she believes, she isn’t the only BLACK person who believes as she believes... It’s interesting to hear people basically say that there are certain things that they are unwilling to give up for a God who gave his LIFE to reconcile them to the Father God.... of you don’t believe in sin you don’t need Jesus and there is no point in being a Christian....Why would Jesus DIE on a cross if there is no such thing as SIN.... How in the world could we possible want Jesus to come into our lives to make a way on earth.. but not want access to a eternity in Heaven... this life is short compared to eternity... ain’t nothing I would not give up for God... and no one I wouldn’t give up for God And that’s coming from me, a person who lived very Queer, and then also performed unethical straightness too.. and decided to give all that up, for JESUS

@LenaBOOMBeana

2 жыл бұрын

@cuzIcan you would have to elaborate, I’m not sure I understand what you are saying….

I really love and appreciate this platform and Kim’s voice in the Black community. However, I couldn’t really take this discussion seriously. I didn’t see them crack the Bible open once. (Maybe I missed it.)A lot of personal opinion took precedence over what the Bible ACTUALLY says. I also felt a lot of church hurt and misunderstanding seep through this discussion. I think it would be beneficial to bring JPH on. I don’t think this should be the last video on this topic.

@KillDjay

3 жыл бұрын

Because the discussion over a dispute of how we uphold sacred text and how we are taught to regurgitate it. By opening the book and reading it, as it’s translated by colonizers, they would be doing the exact thing they are discouraging, which perpetuated a sheeplike mentality amongst followers of organized religion which in and of itself is a flawed concept.

@mmekomabasi9777

3 жыл бұрын

This my point though. What kind of Christianity are you referring to? Everything you mentioned is NOT true Christianity. God never said to enslave or oppress Black people. That is man’s perverted interpretation. In order to understand the true essence of Christianity the Bible must be read and understood, not to affirm one’s own ideas/beliefs but to understand the true character of God the Father Son and Holy Spirit.

@daseanclark5462

3 жыл бұрын

agree with you 100%. i like hearing other perspectives, but it was a bit frustrating especially from Candance who I think mentioned she went to seminary, for them to not open the Bible once and clarify things. they just perpetuated stereotypes and doubts that most ppl have, based off halftruths or misinterpretations and misuses of the Bible.

Thank you Harriet for making these videos about Christianity. I've followed your channel for a little bit but it has been so cool to see you dive into discussing religion. (I also watched the video you did with Jemar Tisby which was super interesting and educational. I've been working my way through his book.) I've been a long journey to reconcile my desire to be a person of faith while also affirming LGBTQ+ folks. I grew up in an Evangelical household. My mom was very hostile and fearful towards gay people when I was growing up (and still is). She would give my elementary school principle literature about the threat of the "gay agenda." I used to get into arguments with my classmates about why is was wrong to be gay. It has been a long and painful process to unlearn these harmful lessons. I stopped going to church while I was in college. I started to attend a church after I graduated college a year ago. I wanted to reconnect with Christianity but it later became clear that this church and the friends I had made were not LGBTQ+ affirming. My one friend who had also became a sort of mentor had a conversation with me about why ultimately being gay does not align with "living holy" and she gave Jackie Hill Perry as evidence as to why gay people can "choose" to live a heterosexual/celibate life. I was so hurt and disturbed by this conversation, but I shouldn't have been surprised. I am looking for other churches and online communities. It is really painful to separate oneself from something that feels so familiar but is ultimately poisoning you and others. Watching these videos and finding other channels and podcasts that cover these topics has been super helpful and makes this whole process less isolating. Thank you for all that you do.

My mom brought home that damn book and it almost drove me to suicide. I hate that ex gay "author" her book is as toxic as conversion therapy. I literally stopped talking to my mom for months and when i finally did i told her to never suggest any book like that to me ever again

love love love this!

This is the best sermon I’ve heard in a long time

I’m so glad that the Black community is progressing to the point where these conversations are being had. Thank you

Incredible conversation.

“Well branded hatred” exactly!!!

My boo Candace!!! Yay!! So proud!!

Link to Zora and Candace's social media? I would love to follow their work.

Wowowowowowow! I am blown away with this! Absolutely on point and so logical and intuitive. I love Black women 💙💙💙💙💙🙋🏾‍♀️🙋🏾‍♀️🙋🏾‍♀️ we're so amazing

This conversation was needed. The title didn't match, but whatever... Still I needed to see and hear this message, it makes you think!

Thank you for this video, this dialogue. Black women truly give so much to this world including good information!

Not sure why I'm just seeing this, however the dialogue from all three of you is so rich! OMG (no pun). Love you ladies!

Lawd this was good!!!!

Love thissss!!! Zora was preaching lol

Okay so when y’all doing the part two????

This is SO GOOD.

I am really not tryna cry, I'm at work. But dammit if this video is not powerful, timely, and necessary. Having recently been excommunicated from a high control religion that discouraged critical thinking and active discussion/outside research of their teachings, I've now had the opportunity to examine my beliefs (among other traits about myself I feel I was denied being raised in this religion) as a young black woman. It's hard. It's time consuming. It's exhausting. Currently I would consider myself agnostic, mostly to save myself the headache. Now that I'm actually free to think and feel and be myself, I'm scared. I don't know what to do with this agency. But I know I needed this video. Thank you, and bless you, for posting.

What an amazing discussion! You should have them back on. I know yall dived deep but I'm eating this up. Being equipped with theological tools against bigots is an essential part of keeping faith renewed, alive, and accessible into the future.