15 years ago I wanted to try every new game. Now, I love playing the most exciting games and popular games, especially at conventions, but most of my game time is spent playing games I love and have played before. Im a lot happier with it now. I still love learning about new games, but I don’t feel compelled to try every game. I’m happy to play my collection and only add a few special games each year.

Honestly, I've said this about movies, TV shows and books, and the same can be said about video games and board games and nearly every kind of media. You could stop production entirely for the next 20 years. And nothing would be lost because there is so much content already. No 1 person could consume everything in their lifetime. We have too much entertainment.

@garylangford6755

Ай бұрын

I don't think there's enough "good content" to last for a while imho. I turn on new hyped stuff and I'm like this is boring and not as good as x thing that I've experienced before.

@garylangford6755

Ай бұрын

Generally the new hype stuff is hyped and enjoyed by the younger generation which is experiencing this stuff for the first time

@terry3733H

Ай бұрын

the movie industry talent pool is more diverse and much larger in numbers so creative new entries are more often to me; gaming industry is still concentrated in a few countries and English language so it can get repetitive and saturated more quickly.

@ketami2

Ай бұрын

@terry3733H Japanese films from the 40s and 50s are my favorites. So many good samurai films. I think you need to watch more foreign movies and TV shows

New games are for new gamers because old gamers are storing their games in the bathtub that nobody uses anyway.

I've played video games for several decades now and only joined boardgame hobby a couple of years ago. Its such a hard hobby because tings go out of print often so you are always pressured by the FOMO. While I know a videogame price will only go down in time and if I give it a couple of years I'll buy it with a huge discount, boardgames have a tendency of going the other way. When I joined the hobby everyone was gushing over Cthulhu DMD and it made it to the top 10 list of most content creators, but the game was nowhere to be found. It took CMON over a year before they decided to reprint it for their next campaign. More recently Feast for Odin and Dwellings of Eldervalle were also out of print, although they just recently showed up. In this hobby you do run the risk of missing out on great games as they might become unavailable, and that pushes the FOMO harder.

@joeferreti9442

Ай бұрын

Right, that is another reason why I'd say the "new games are for new gamers" approach is bad. There is plenty of profit to be made by reprinting good old games for new gamers. There is no need to create new games that are only targeted at new gamers!

@joefilomena2768

Ай бұрын

To me with both board and video games, we have so many good games coming out so often that I don't personally feel like FOMO still makes sense. If I miss a good game it is almost always because I decided to pick up a different also good game. Personally I am just as happy to engage with the one I did get, even if it turns out that it is only a 7/10 instead of a 9/10 (or it means I spend more time on the 9/10s I already have). If I missed the actual best game that year that looks like something I would enjoy, I can sign up for their newsletter to catch the reprint. I think games as a whole are getting better and more interesting over time, so even if it doesn't get a reprint I can know what to look for to find the updated version with a lightly different take on some mechanics that comes out a few years later, and in the mean time still be engaged with any of the other great games I already have.

@terry3733H

Ай бұрын

same here! video gamer for years- a game can be replayed for 300+ hours and take up little space. 2022 tried board gaming (less sensory overload than video games) but they’re like limited run stamps and coins- the FOMO! But 2023 I realized it’s more thrifty to wait for reprints, re-implementation, play through, and BGG market… happy gaming 🌟 🎲 🧩

This man is full of wisdom. I appreciate you! Best board game channel I followed last year. ❤

Theme matters to me. I find that theme and presentation are significantly better now. Sure, game A is just a iteration of game X. But game A is about hunting aliens and has good art and graphic design, whereas game X is a game about medieval farming and is really, really brown .

@Twineandribbon

Ай бұрын

Amen

@ianw0ng

Ай бұрын

😂👍 yeah, lets escape our dreary boring reality and play as medieval farmers tending to cows and shit. i dont care how great everyone says agricola is... that theme and that klemens's art is a big turn off for me.

@terry3733H

Ай бұрын

Yup! 👍 Themes are helpful ways to tie game objectives to the mechanics so it’s easier to remember/ follow and engage players like a story more than solving a puzzle 🧩 I feel like components have to be durable easy to pick up and pretty to look at, because, confusing rules I can house rule them, but ugly components I’d have to look at them the whole time 🤣 Lucky 🍀 me, nature and animal themes are mushrooming 🍄 (pun intended 🤣~)

How dare your ending be so deep and inspiring. *pulls a game off the shelf I haven't played yet and hugs it*

@BoardGameCo

Ай бұрын

Awww....hug your games, you'll never know when you'll play it next

I love this topic. My friend and I have been talking more and more about how we haven't been interested in new KS campaigns or games, and how we're simultaneously glad and sad about it.

@garylangford6755

Ай бұрын

4 player coop dungeon crawl +dice+minis has been done over 100 times that's why

@riddlesphinxx

Ай бұрын

@@garylangford6755 I'm so thankful I haven't bought in to campaign games or trading card games. I think they're awesome but decided a long time ago that that was an easy way to spend way too much money without realizing it. I'll go too-all-in on a lot of games but avoiding those two genres has helped.

@ViralAgent1

Ай бұрын

@@garylangford6755 agreed! The dungeon crawler is my favorite genre, and even I think we have too many at this point. Believe me, it pains me to say that.

I think at the end of the day it just shows how much of a good life many of us have.

Great advice. It took me years to realize those points. Quick example: I have Gloomhaven because I wanted to own the number one game on BGG. I bought that game 3 years ago, and it still sits on my shelf. It's not that I don't like the game, but rather, my group doesn't fit a campaign style game. I run a game night and the players' shift, so I discovered that one-up scenario games are what work best for me. Thanks for the video 🐐

@patricksullivan6988

Ай бұрын

I feel this. I've definitely fallen for games before that are great for my taste/interests, but not for my game group and/or situation in life

Absolutely true! I ran into the same problem while reviewing books. It may be your 500th fantasy novel, but may be someone else's first! Also I feel like some people forget that not everyone has access to every game that releases. So people may pass on "the best" because the theme didn't speak to them. I've never played Wingspan, but picked up Wyrmspan and really enjoy it, so I was kinda taken off guard by the pushback it has gotten online. Great topic, Alex! Thank you for sharing.

Very interesting convo. I really enjoy content like this, and your takes. I see some upside in that the hobby is growing enough to have segments / niches. Even if a game doesn't turn "mass evergreen" (lots of factors) among the "hardcore" - there's still room to make segments of gamers very happy and make something special for them. You can really find what speaks to you most, and will hold up FOR YOU, even if they don't last forever in reprint.

@BoardGameCo

Ай бұрын

Totally agree. I remember talking to one publisher who said that not all their games will be right for everyone, but he wants everyone to have at least a few games in their catalog that they like. I appreciated the realistic take.

I’ve known people who constantly chase the newest, hottest thing on BGG. If it’s in the hotness, they have to play it. For me, much of the joy to be found in this hobby comes in finding your favorite game, finding other people who also enjoy that game and mastering it together. When you’re always chasing that “new game high,” when will you ever have time to crack the surface of any board game?

@BoardGameCo

Ай бұрын

Interestingly enough, I actually don't like mastery 🙂 but I do enjoy diving into games I love. For me It's definitely about finding the right balance, and as a content creator, that's definitely hard.

Great perspective and advice - thanks!

feeling very called out that I usually watch more boardgame content then I play... love todays philosophical topic.

thanks for the shelf-control sobering thoughts 😊

El grande holy crap is one that has stood the test of time and has blown me away

@BoardGameCo

Ай бұрын

It's so good :)

I love this video. As a person with many interest - board games, video games, books and movies, I notice the same issue and had the same conclusion. IT IS so easy to get distracted, and end up not enjoy the hobby even though that's the goal at first. Thanks for the video!

Very well considered video that raises the question "what constitutes a 'new gamer?'" I still feel as though I'm still in the steeper part of the learning/growth curve in spite of having had Ticket to Ride Europe, and Catan now for many years. However, I feel that I have only "recently" (post-COVID?) been engaging it more as a hobby. My collection has probably tripled in size in three years and currently have five games on my Shelf of Shame. In that time I have also discovered Dice Tower, MvM, and your channel along with BGG. Do I >need< more games? Likely not. But do I enjoy the hobby aspect which includes the thrill of the hunt. I also likely need to consider more excellent older games instead of being fixated on the horizon. Castles of Burgundy and Viticuture, perhaps?

Excellent video. This is the year I have finally clamped down on my game purchases. For me the wake up call was when the shelf area where I keep games got filled up and I was forced to cull. A good chunk of games that got culled were ones I never played that seemed like a good idea at the time but that I couldn’t get to the table simply because there wasn’t enough time to get so many games to the table. And time made me less interested in doing so. I have bought a small amount of new games this year, but I think out of about 8 games only 3 of them were 2024 releases. My focus this year is playing the games I have more often. And BGStats shows I’ve been successful. My current h-index is 8. For the entire year of 2023 it only made it up to 11. So my collection is sitting at about 225 now and that’s way more than enough. I have adopted the one in one out rule to really keep things in check and keep me from having to cull huge piles of unplayed games again.

Another thing to be aware of as a board game reviewer is comparing new good games to older possibly better games that will never come back to print. This game is great but I think Goa is better. You create a potentially unnecessary FOMO without the ability to resolve it when that new gamer has a perfectly good game in front of them.

I started about three years ago into the hobby. When I looked up the dates of the game in my collection I realized that the majority is from those last three years. Although I knew about BGG top 100 and so on from the beginning, very few older games really grabbed me and made me want to keep them in my collection. And after these three years I find less and less older titles I still want to try. But the same applies now to new titles as well. Do I really need another worker placement game? Do I really need another dungeon crawler? You build your first collection, and then you usually start to settle down, because it’s not that new anymore, not that special anymore compared to those you already know. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t new games that enter a collection. But I really agree with the point Alex maid that most games are for those people new to the hobby. They will become their personal special favorites that they will think fondly of and may keep for a long time in their hearts and often times collection. You only have so much time to spare. Just focus on the things you love. I have found a great collection for myself that I love to spend my time on. I will still seek out those special new games that me joy and excitement and a sense of discovery. But nothing beats the first years when everything is new and special. 🙂

Thank you so much for this and I did buy a few games to check what I like. Also got a subscription on BGA just to figure out what kind of mechanics I like solo and what kind of stuff I would like to play with more people. It helped me figure out with relative little money investment/ time investment. And Im on the fence to back dragon eclipse all in, because I havent seen anything like it atm and how more games I play the more excited I get for it.

@BoardGameCo

Ай бұрын

I'm a huge fan of bga, I think it can help you play a lot of games.

Cool video and some food for thought. I am interested though as gaming is part of your work. What do you do with the games you review that you either dont like or you know you will never play again etc? Do you donate them or sell them?

the movie industry talent pool is more diverse and much larger in numbers so creative new entries are more often to me; gaming industry is still concentrated in a few countries and English language so it can get repetitive and saturated more quickly.

Thank u for this vídeo!

Very good hypothesis, and there might be some market segmentation between the different outlets. I’ve thought for some time that it makes it a challenge for reviewers; they sometimes say xyz (unavailable) game did it better. Where maybe the focus should be ‘is this a good fit for gamers at beginner(/growing/experienced) stage

I think you'll look back at his recording in a few years as one of your best ever produced. That said you left out the "Theoretical Gamer" in your scope of scenarios. IE people who live vicariously through others playing games they collect. :) lol. That said I agree that even the Theoretical Gamer has to approach the collection as a library collection curator. People are employed all the time at libraries (by now you should recognize my association with libraries.. :) managing collections of things they don't directly interact with (movies, books, music, etc.) And yes Libraries need to add board games in a HUGE way to their collection management! There are WAY too many games being produced for any mere mortal to keep up but a library system could in fact approach embracing the volume in a managed way of course. And yes they can cycle through the new games just like they do books and so forth. Anyway BRAVO for this video. Try going to a library to find your favorite sci-fi book from the 1980s... good luck with that. The absolute classics yes. It depends on the library system of course...

Very reasonable what you're saying, but sometimes I just love the feeling of excitement for something new, even if it's not reviewed or has not withstood the test of time. Sure, it's safer to wait, but that might lessen this excitement. For me sometimes it's well worth the risk, even if it eventually disappoints! Not everything about a hobby should be rational and calculated, it's important to also just unreasonably enjoy!

Sometimes it seems my board gaming group is all about the new games. It was over a year before we played Wingspan, Dune: imperium or Lost Ruins (Oddly on the same night for the latter two). I think they only played Wingspan to compare it to Wyrmspan. It also seems that when talking about genres of games, instead of best of all time, it could be "pick from these 10 and you'll be fine." Somebody that likes asteroid mining may like Ceres just fine and doesn't need Raiders of the North Sea.

@BoardGameCo

Ай бұрын

Lots of people like new games...it's a balance of finding both when you can

I like your arguments but I disagree about one point. There’s a LOT of hidden gem games. What I do is get old Kickstarter games when they are 75% off so I can try them out.

I feel like my collection is almost fully saturated now, next game ill be getting is dune uprising. Feel like the games on kickstarter/Gamefound no longer entice me like they used too, it would need to be a really special game and need to be very popular for me to get it. When I first started out I got blood rage, vindication, everdell, Teraforming mars, veiled fate etc and I feel like I have the best game showcasing each mechanic and that they are unlikely to be dethroned

I think a good word is contentment. If you get that next game will that make you content? If it’s because it’s the hot new thing, it won’t being contentment because there will always be new. Also with so much choice it breeds a sense of non-contentment, because should I have X or Y, when I was just happy with what I had before. If you have enough to continue to have enjoyable experiences the. be satisfied and if your new and searching well as you said there is a lot out there, enjoy the journey.

Man, this video speak to me. I've only been in the hobby for about 5 years but I know I've hit saturation. I have a bunch of great games in my collection; I even already had them in my collection while I still ravenously acquiring. And now I have great games and good games that try to imitate great games. And great games that supplanted great games that did the same thing, but better for me (Undaunted replaced Memoir '44 for me). And mediocre games that I were hoping would be "my" game, only to either be constantly disappointed or instead choosing to spend my time playing the already great games in my collection. On the video's point, looking at the release calendar for 2024, there's very few games I'm excited for; instead, I'm waiting for the reprints of Coloma and Clans of Calddonia, gauging whether I should pick up Hamburg (because Burges is out of my budget), and trying to pick up a few of last years hits (Heat, Sky Team). The only exception might be Ironwood, but I already have more than enough 2p games. I'm culling most of my 4p games and 1hr+ games; I've got too many dungeon crawlers and not enough time. Knowing that I play primarily around 2, sometimes 3, and rarely ever more than an hour at a time, I've had to become judicious in my collecting.

Great content! Honest and thoughtful! As usual. May I borrower your list (I will credit you). I started a meetup group for old-timers (50-somethings) that might be new to the hobby to play light-weight games (BGG ratings 1-2). One of them was just stated how they used to play a new game and would run out and buy it. Now, they're not so sure they really like it. I consider myself a "new gamer" (six years in the hobby) and was like that in the beginning. I watched YT influencers and when my favorites would "gush" over a game, I'd run out and buy it (well, rush to my computer - damn you internet! Sorry FLGS!) Side note: sometimes I feel like I should be charging them for my games. 😀😀😀 This has eventually led to my own shelf of shame. (I see you Shadows of Brimstone: Forbidden Fortress!) 😞 Anyway! I would like to post your list on the meetup group if that's ok? Oh! as a burned "new" gamer, I would add one more thing to your list: price! Is it really worth spending $70 or $125??!! If my favorite influencer "gushes" over the latest game and I find out it's over $60, I draw the line. Please don't hate on me in the comments 🙂 Thanks again for the content!!

I'm not certain new games are for new gamers... I think new games are intended to reach audiences that don't have something to their liking. Sometimes that means rebranding an existing system into a new theme with slightly tweaked mechanics. Zombicide to Dead Keep, Wingspan to Wyrmspan, both of these are examples of taking systems that are well liked and changing them slightly to appeal to people that may not have resonated with the game it came from. I know Alex has mentioned he doesn't like WW2 or real-life war themed games. But stick those same games in a fantasy/sci-fi theme he would be interested in it. The game mechanics weren't the issue. He isn't a new gamer, but he is a different target audience than the original product.

toggle between hobbies keep me busy while waiting for my next fav. game 😊

I've shifted my mindset a lot under the core idea that a good game doesn't cut it anymore when there are so many great games I love (be it objectively and/or subjectively). But for the entirety of my through process, please refer to the questions below 🤣 They have stopped so many bad choices, not because necessarily they aren't good games but aren't a good fit. 1. Do I think I will love this game, or do I just love the idea? 2. Will this game go down well with my gaming group/family/friends? 3. What is the likelihood that I will have the right number of players for this game? 4. Are my eyes bigger than my table? 5. Is this game too similar to something I already own? 6. Do I have the space to store this game? 7. Is this game worth it? (Time, effort, money etc.) 8. Have I read the rulebook? (Seriously, if you can't bring yourself to get through the rulebook, that game is never seeing the light of day) 9. How is my unplayed games shelf looking? 10. Do I really want this game, or is this an impulse purchase?

Its challenging. I bring the games to all our games nights in my group. I try to find games that will appeal to everyone. Sometime I fail or its received well and does not last. I dont want to end up with 300+ games that get never played so when I see its not a good fit, a game gets replaced. I dont think theres anything wrong with "the cult of the new" as long as you dont buy above what you can afford and you find value for money

I suppose this is why we see Batman, Superman, Spiderman rebooted every 20 or so years.... UGH. Thousands of super hero origin stories to tell and we get Batman rebooted 6 times instead. Etc.

@BoardGameCo

Ай бұрын

100% agreed, a great point!

My version of “F***, Marry, Kill” is “Research, Instaback, BGA”

I wonder how meany times people really play each of their games nowadays. Even if you only keep 10 games a year from the 400 new games you tried, it is very likely you will not be playing those 10 games ever again either. There will always be more new games to try out if you are into that. Playing board games since I was kid and being active in this hobby for more than ten years have taught me that new games are not necessarily better than older games. I just do not need to play new games, none at all. I can keep playing older games and still be happy for the rest of my life. I mean, I do try new games from time to time, but I am kind of tired of it. Most of the times, new games are nothing special.

@BoardGameCo

Ай бұрын

I do play most of the ten :) but other than that you're completely right

Its funny how just a few years ago most of the content creators were heavily pushing the cult of the new. Crowd funding was always being talked about and the older games werent being emphasized as much Lately ive noticed a shift... Some of the big content creators are emphasizing culling more and saying not to get caught up in the cult of the new. It hit me about 2-3 years ago when i realised i had so many games that i could play one a day and it would still take me about 3 years to get everything played! Thats insane! So ive been focussing on trimming stuff down and ive been selling stuff off. Some good pointers in this video. Personally i dont even look at crowd funding! I have no desire to wait 2+ years for a freakin game. Who the hell cares how much extra exclusive content there is??? Most of the time its just bloat. Im too much of a completionist and i have a lot of games which ive barely played the base content. I am starting to ignore all the extras unless its a game i love. I realise now id rather have a small collection that im going to play a lot of, rather than a large collection with lots of variety... But playing games one time only.

Nucleum is amazing, it would be madness not to play it. But I appreciate you are making a bigger point. Seriously, play Nucleum.

I disagree with your second point. The fact that a game is not evergreen or with not get re-printed doesn't mean it will not become somebody's best game ever, so I don't agree with waiting. Because that's like saying if not everyone likes it, it's not worth it. That might be your perspective as a content creator who plays 1000s of games but I don't think it applies to the average gamer.

@darinherrick9224

Ай бұрын

I agree. That said, good ideas get recycled. Heck BAD ideas get recycled. But yeah I’m glad I snagged some old Kickstarter games before they vanish.

Such a great video wow

@BoardGameCo

Ай бұрын

Thanks :)

I have learned this lesson. Happily decided to limit my spending to $25 a month. If I don’t love a game to the moon and back, I will sell it.

@BoardGameCo

Ай бұрын

Good for you!!!

I enjoyed the conversation, but disagree with the title. You even mentioned in several situations where new games are not for new gamers. It is like saying new books are for new readers? That just doesn’t make sense. New games are just different games that can be made for new or old time gamers. Terraforming Mars was a game I was going to sell. It was a slow starting game that just took too long, then Prelude was released that completely changed the way the game played. The Crew was one of my favorite games, but when Mission Deep Sea came out it, the old Crew was out. I am lucky enough to have a large game collection, so often a new game will replace and older game that for whatever reason I have just played it out (a new theme or slight twist is what I am looking for).

Nicely done. Just one thing: I’m not sure there is as limited a quantity of creativity. Are you familiar with the Poisson distribution in statistics? It was used to plot the timing of simple groundbreaking low-tech innovations, like paper clips and post-it notes, and based on widening times between invocations, they quantify how many such things remain to be found. I think they said 4-5 in the next century. I wish I could remember the source of this. Anyway, while I was in Cleveland last weekend, and I note you did NOT get back to me about Monday!, I went to the art museum, and the guide made a point of how trains revolutionized landscape art because it was possible to travel to location with paints. We’re just waiting for the next big thing in game mechanics…

Sure new games can be for new gamers. I feel they are still very much for those already deeply entrenched in the hobby as well. Like any hobby you only need a handful of that thing to indulge in it but I think a big part of the fun is always being on the hunt. Maybe I will play them all, maybe I won’t. Maybe some will be duds and others home runs. I don’t really care as I get enjoyment just tracking down cool games to add to the collection. I think it’s human nature with most things in life to always be looking off into the horizon, to never be fully satisfied and to always be searching for that next thing.

Wow, I was ready to write about the "stood the test of time" part and you ended up mentioning the game I was going to base my comment on. Earth is a genuinely horrible game. I can't stress this enough. I recently wanted to buy Hadrian's wall, and wanted to get a second game to save on shipping. I went with Earth because it was on the hotness list on BGG for a while. Almost every game I own is a classic, so I'm always happy with my purchases. Earth was the first game that felt like a waste of money and time. I felt cheated because this game's rating is the same as many games that I enjoy. But you can't compare the rating of a game that just came out with a game that has received thousands of reviews throughout the years. Earth's raring is mostly from backers gaslighting themselves. This game will be below 6.5 in a gew years

Great advice! Just because a game is popular doesn't mean it's for you, so don't waste your time or money. I LOVE dungeon crawlers and everyone was gushing over Massive Darkness 2 so I spent too much money on it. After 10 plus plays and trying to convince myself that it's an ok game, I just had to finally be honest with myself, I don't really like it that much.

@CommDante

Ай бұрын

As I'm still eyeing MD2 as an entry/easy to table ameritrash game, I'm wondering what you didn't like about it ...

There are too many new board games coming out each year. That is a fact. So, most publisher companies will have a hard time to survive. That is a fact. Not every company will make it. That is just normal in a market economy. On the other hand I can't imagine that anyone would want to try every single game. There are way too many and most of them are crap. Almost all people will look and will only try those games that pull them in for one reason or another. But even if you do that, there are too many games to play. So, you have to be more critical about the games and prioritize.

I disagree that we need to put out new things, printing older games would be just as fine, the companies would make less money, but that is not a bad thing.

Don't like this sentence because it gives me the "only old/classic stuff is good" vibe. Totally wrong. That said, I find it awesome that there are so many new games, the problem is not having the time to keep up. But is it really necessary? As you said, the best way to go for it, is filtering out what seems really interesting. KZread channels and podcasts help with that, I really appreciate all the advice. Also it's totally fine to play the same game all over again, just do what's fun.

New games aren't for new gamers; new games are to scratch an itch. The new gamer looking for an experience, or the veteran looking for X game to scratch an itch better than Y or Z game. Also, I wouldn't trust a reviewer that was a new gamer. If you watched one football game... I'm not going to trust your opinion past that one game. 😅

It's a poor excuse from publishers to say their mediocre game was targeted only at new gamers. Why rip off newcomers by selling a mediocre game to them? Why not let newcomers have access to good old classics? Selling existing proven games to newcomers theoretically should make more profit with less risk. Why disregard the mass of older gamers that buy way more games than newcomers? There is nothing wrong with making a new game without gimmicks and without a true mechanical novelty or innovation, but the game has to be sufficiently good and has to feel sufficiently different, else it's simply superfluous and you won't make money and your board game publishing company will go down. Targeting products solely to newcomers doesn't do it!

@garylangford6755

Ай бұрын

I reckon flamecraft is the perfect example of a mediocre game which tries to be the next wingspan but sucked in comparison in sucking in new and old audiences

Corecore or just capitalism idk(?)