There's like 10 games by Mythic alone.

@williamcomolli9470

Ай бұрын

Yup... Lot of angst around Mythic Games. I went all-in on Darkest Dungeon. I've paid their hostage fees and am still hoping that eventually, one day, I'll get what they promised because I really loved the video game and love the idea of playing the boardgame version with my friends. Talk about bitter, sour grapes though.

@wm1pyro604

27 күн бұрын

I haven't backed one of their games, but from the sheer amount of incompetence I've heard about them I don't know how they're still in business/not facing a lawsuit. I also can't understand why people continued to support them disaster after disaster.

@giuseppegallocorvus

27 күн бұрын

HEL was the dirtiest scam Mythic pulled off, and I was well aware of the previous ones, being warned by a lot of friends... I love their ideas but as a professional Project Manager I can't believe their incompetence in running projects, so I ended up thinking they just scam people and pretend they are just unable to turn great ideas into products.

Mythic Games Anastyr is what did it for me. I no longer watch multiple boardgame videos daily. I even unsubscribed to some channels and shifted my time to other hobbies.

@thebrewgeek

Ай бұрын

I’m with you in that one. Mythic single handedly turned me off of crowdfunding with their Anastyr BS. I’d requested a refund long ago and nada. Then they have the gall to sell off the IP to Cmon.

@gabrielboissonneaultbiron4170

Ай бұрын

Same with me but with Hel which they also sold to CMON

Darkest Dungeon All-In backer, I don't do crowdfunded games anymore. If it's good, I'll get it at retail. If it doesn't go to retail, even less to worry about.

@JedrekVRoscoe

Ай бұрын

Same.

Black list games left many of us hanging with several unfulfilled kickstarters

Mythic is the one I know well than hurt crowdfunding. It's a really good example as how not to do things and how bad management may bring down a successful company.

Mythic Games and Six Siege hurt things for me. I also think that CMON and their endless series of expansions are preying on FOMO that has spread across so much of crowdfunding board games.

@1AngelAlita

Ай бұрын

CMON's KS exclusive expansions may pray on FOMO but you can usually sell them for way more then their original cost if you don't want them anymore...

@GoodEggGuy

Ай бұрын

Agreed on both counts.

@denisloebner4882

Ай бұрын

At least 6 sieged turned out to be a really good game (and the ks offering price was undercosted anyways.) Hel and anastyr backers got hit a lot worse.

@toddferrullo1871

Ай бұрын

@@denisloebner4882 Not to mention the MonsterApocalypse backers that are almost certainly going to get hit the worst of anyone who backed Mythic when they finally admit that they are getting nothing after the more than a year of complete silence.

@stevenharris6161

Ай бұрын

CMON FOMO has definitely hurt crowdfunding

Crowdfunding is so double-edged it's wild. On the one hand, we get absolutely nutso beautiful productions that would *never* otherwise get the funding they need to get made. On the other hand, we can only fly so close to the sun so many times. Maybe though, just maybe, we should be backing off a bit and simplifying things. I love that Cyclades Legendary has a wooden meeples option, that's the one I pledged.

@sidneyleejohnson

Ай бұрын

You probably said in a few words what I Was thinking/writing in thousands. I like to vent through my long essays. Its therapeutic but I appreciate your concise conclusions and analogy.

Mythic Games for sure. And I am certain I'm not the only one.

@gabrielmnt4119

Ай бұрын

I backed darkest dungeon core pledge and after paying the extra shippment I did got my copy, but I do feel bad for all the people that had bigger pledges and never got their games. Mythic is a dying company!

If Mythic Games isn't #1 on this list I'll be shocked.

Mythic and Blacklist games are the top companies that are ruining crowdfunding. Lazy Squire Games is creeping up on that inauspicious list.

@w92viking64

Ай бұрын

I will never back Blacklist after a torrid experience with them where they blamed me for not delivering my game to me!!! Took ages to get a refund from them and one hell of a fight

Stormsunder will always hurt the most. It has so much potential but is sadly too ambitious for the company.

@kevinjhubert

Ай бұрын

I went all in on it and the Wild Assent reprint and it just kills me to realize it was all a waste.

Lazy Squire games is just really embracing the first word in their name, nothing to worry about.

@trav1129

Ай бұрын

I had just started getting into kickstarting board games and backed stormsunder last june highly regretting it.

@istvanfekete3323

Ай бұрын

@@trav1129 I was on the verge of doing the same thing, but decided I wanted to go all in, which meant saving up some money first. By the time I had the money more red flags were starting to appear so I backed out completely. Still hope they deliver a great game someday.

@trav1129

Ай бұрын

@@istvanfekete3323 yea feel like i basically wasted my $200 and ill never see my copy

As much as I love the game, I think Middara Acts II and III should have been on this list over 7th Citadel. The KS closed in July 2019 with an estimated delivery of May 2021. It's now April 2024 and it hasn't started production yet (it's scheduled to start in May 2024). They are estimated a Q4 2024 delivery, roughly 3.5 years after the estimated delivery and over five years after the campaign ended.

@fy8798

Ай бұрын

I ended up getting a refund for it. Act I was fun, but had weaknesses, and the waffling on the balancing for Act 2+3 just..didn't give me confidence.

@ghostphil6030

Ай бұрын

Yeah their first Kickstarter took forever back then as well, but they had really good communication. With the second Kickstarter there was a time where the communication was really sparse, but I am glad they increased it again. And with the whole Beta-testing, etc. I at least know they are really working on things, they just seem to be relatively slow (though it is a big game with a lot of rules, text, etc.) and bad with dates, etc. But with all the campaigns that I still wait for Middara is honestly the one I am the least concerned about.

@toddferrullo1871

Ай бұрын

As a backer of both Middara and Kingdom Death, I can honestly say that I have no doubts that they will both deliver... eventually. As a backer of the long delayed original Middara campaign I knew this one (which had far greater scope) was going to get a lengthy delay and blatantly stated that during the campaign telling Succubus that they were being way too optimistic and they were certainly going to see a delay of not months but years.

@FortellerGames

Ай бұрын

Definitely not an unbiased opinion here, but we can confirm that Middara 2 and 3 are gonna slap so hard 3.5 years will look like a fond memory.

@stevenharris6161

Ай бұрын

@@FortellerGames just like how the gamblers chest was worth the wait in the end. Let them cook.

Madeira Collector's Edition is one of my sad highlights. Great game and it was ostensibly manufactured, but company behind it disintegrated.

@sidneyleejohnson

Ай бұрын

FYI, IMHO it was manufactured and I know by whom. Still proceeding slowly with that knowledge but my patience is running very thin with WYG. Will open up a "Unilateral" conversation with the printer soon if we don't get an update on KS. That said it is nearly impossible for backers to coordinate with the printer as we don't own the backer list. The operational efficiency of proving we backed the game and would like to pay them to ship it to us seems daunting to say the least.

I would also throw in Super Dungeon Explore from Soda Pop Miniatures/Ninja Division, which had a fair number of backers and an established brand and has now officially vanished into the ether, some…7? 8? years after the fact.

@JasonBrown-st5if

Ай бұрын

I believe Soda pop recently filled for Bankruptcy. SDE is well dead.

@xtrem5428

Ай бұрын

Yeah, and now the company is desperately trying to get itself out of the hole they dug themselves into. I've noticed on their site that they took some mini bundles and split them in smaller bundles, yet at an increased price.

@JamesSerapio

Ай бұрын

Yup. They even printed relic knights 2 but i didn't get my copy... They sold some though...

@richarddurrer9617

Ай бұрын

I also am out my copy of Relic Knights 2

Anastyr was the worst one because they knew things were bad when they collected the money. That was pure theft.

I and 3,200+ others backed Legend Academy by El Dorado Games. I've seen news that El Dorado Games has failed and it seems their web site and social media has been shut down as of last year. Meanwhile they put out an update in January saying the game is still coming and implied that production would finish this spring. At this point I don't expect to ever see the game, but it is frustrating that they don't seem to be forthcoming about what is going on.

@PablowingUrMind

Ай бұрын

I feel dumb and disappointed for how easy I gave them the extra $20 for "support and shipping" and the small promo pack. I don't think I will ever see those promos.

@bryanyoung9966

Ай бұрын

Really? Ugh. I went All in on legend academy. Had no clue about those details. Thanks for keeping us informed. (The company obviously isn’t!)

@shaunpentecost

Ай бұрын

​@@bryanyoung9966the company did. Way back at update 21 on the project. They ran into issues and have been forthcoming with info. I'm also a backer and still confident we'll get something. Just hard to meet time lines when you go from full time game developer to needing to get other full time jobs to support yourselves. Its not ideal but they provide updates every 1 to 2 months so I haven't lost hope yet.

@jokerES2

Ай бұрын

I will say El Dorado Games has been "under duress" since Age of Atlantis. They recognized that they hadn't allowed themselves enough margin on either Age of Atlantis or Legend Academy. Enough so that they put out a KZread video saying that they were probably going to stop producing board games once Legend Academy was finalized. The company not being profitable (and eventually not being solvent) was noted around the time of the Age of Atlantis update (June 27, 2022) so it's a miracle it's taken this long to unwind.

I'm an All-In'er for both Wild Assent and Stormsunder. I hope the games come out eventually, but I don't expect them to anymore. Even if they do come out, I will 100% never be backing anything from LSG again.

The delay on the Honey Buzz expansion is just mind blowing, just no excuse for an expansion of a already finished game

@TheAmazingYeti

Ай бұрын

At least it is finally on a boat and heading somewhere.

@Allanq69

Ай бұрын

I know right!! Finally. Maybe un a couple of months it'll be delivered

@rogerstone9353

Ай бұрын

Village Attacks: Grim Dynasty was also an expansion for an already finished game. Never delivered. People that ordered the base game through the campaign never even got that.

I interpreted the 7th Citadel Communication as open and honest, but Robinson Crusoe felt like non stop dishonesty. Worse than both is Elf Creek Games, Atlantis Rising, Monstrosities, Honey Buzz still not delivered, they tell you to contact the distribution hub and the hub says Elf Creek have not sent stock. Elf Creek were widely spoken about, and well sought after by new people to the hobby, but those people are not talking about the failure to deliver and the effect on the hobby.

You forgot Funforge's Monumental African Empires. Literally lying to your backers regularly and shamelessly.

$1500 in the hole waiting to see if/when Wild Assent and Stormsunder ever deliver. Not a good feeling but hope they deliver one day

@nimblegoat

Ай бұрын

Write it off , as then it can only be a win. Future is scary , present reality often not as bad, past gets into who cares if able to let go, especially as theses are not a personal betrayal . This comes from running a business during Covid , why stress everyday, just assume a crap year of business coming and have a laugh or two , or cut losses and get a wage job.

@JasonPX

Ай бұрын

@@nimblegoat Yep! I'm assuming they won't come and if they do then great. Have backed 100 or so campaigns in 7 years with no issues really until these two and Monumental

@nimblegoat

Ай бұрын

​@@JasonPX Yeah I have Stormsunder, Anastyr ( Cmon picks up , but had an expansion or 2 ) . Monster Apocalypse . Blacklist minis 2 , Had 6 Siege and Darkest Dungeon as well. So rec'd DD and 6 Siege , pay extra on both , both Blacklist Minis 1 in earlier campaign delivered . Think Monster Apocalypse will require more money , but will deliver . Think blacklist really surprisingly will deliver , but why as cheap 3D printers now. Plus higher quality. C'mon will do Anastyr, interesting to see if get discounts on expansions- Shipping to my country from Cmon usual pain . Stormsunder like Anastyr in hindsight silly as too many expansions, too much work required . Thankfully now the rise of the second print is gaining traction with expansions . So I picked out stuff in latest Carnival of Chaos al la carte and Ready steady Bet . Now much more picky, happy to wait for reprints , only have to decide for smaller indie stuff, or a Cmon say DC united type stuff. End of day I recognise most of us are lucky to have such disposable income . Plus a big root canal and crown the other day took more money- meaning other stuff in life , like vet bills etc are bigger.

@terry3733H

21 күн бұрын

hope the games arrived! That’s a down payment $ for a car! I late pledged a game import from Japan $300 arrived safe and sound. Good luck 🌟

The Red Joker will likely be added to this list since they have gone silent on social media and their Okko Chronicles: Cycle of Earth KS page. The last update was literally over 4 months ago, and that update said they're still looking for production partners. It is now 2 years after the KS ended, and they have been silent for four months on their KS page, and they literally haven't even found anyone to produce the game for them. If it's ever made, it will likely be 3+ years from their KS end. The fact that they are silent, don't answer messages, don't reply to questions on their KS page, and have gone silent on social media all adds up to the likelyhood that they are not going to fulfill Okko Chronicles: Cycle of Earth and Cyber Odyssey. The King of Average contacted them last week, and they just shined him on with the same info about "still looking for production partners."

@bryanyoung9966

Ай бұрын

Definitely needs to be there.

MYTHIC GAMES > Monsterpocalypse. They now make me really back barely anything anymore because of it.

@bryanyoung9966

Ай бұрын

The fact we haven’t heard anything about Monsterpocalypse since the last update in Anastyr, etc as well is telling. And this was a game that was supposed to be mostly designed already too.

I am in the Stormsunder/ Wild Assent camps. I went in knowing there were criticisms/ delays but I did not expect how lacking some of their recent updates have been. They aren’t asking for extra money but they are making us sacrifice time as they focus on fulfilling their side gigs like Ravaged Star.

Soda Pop Miniatures/Ninja Division, their campaign for Super Dungeon Explore: Legends made a boat-load of cash and it all disappeared through poor management, over-reach, and some suspect funds were used for medical bills. The owners would often get into self-righteous arguments with backers and to this day still declare they will one day deliver and backers should stop being so mean and upset at them. Oh yeah, and they took everyone's shipping fees saying the product was almost ready when they hadn't even started manufacturing. They still haven't started, what is it...coming up on 9 years after funding? Strangely, that was my first ever KS experience and I still came back for more. What has stopped me these last couple of years is the shipping costs to Canada negating any savings I would get from KS.

6:Siege was the wake up call I needed to back wayyy off. Lords of Ragnarok was the other that killed my backing pace (was terrible, and I sold mine for a massive loss)

7th citadel took so long and had so little communication I swore it was vaporware and I'd been scammed. It suddenly arrived recently and in my opinion is a wonderful game.

@lazulin

Ай бұрын

It was kind of shocking when it finally did arrive. I haven't played it yet but I'm just happy to have gotten it.

@HedelTorres

Ай бұрын

I did find the wait long, I bought it at start of pandemic and looked forward to play during lockdown but it arrived after the lockdown was done.. Lol..But i do think they provided updates, at least monthly. Don't think they every missed an update.

Mythic and my enormous Anastyr pledge is what ruined crowdfunding for me

for me, crowdfunding just isnt fun anymore tbh. its expensive, its anti consumer at a very basic level, and its a huge risk. any attempts to get a company to be held accountable for their actions either results in a shield wall of fans or torches and pitchforks. its ridiculous. nothing on the page actually matters other than how much of your money theyre going to take. Cheaper Now! no its not in most cases Get it first! if you're lucky Cant get it later! tell that to Game Steward, Gamenerdz, Recess games, Zulu games, etc. Help shape the game! ya right lmao. thats actually pretty rare. sure you can convince them to sell you a playmat or an upgraded component, but thats not really shaping the game, and even thats hit or miss. every year there will be a few new teams i will support because thats what crowdfunding does best. there will be a few expansions from my fav devs. and there might be a game or two ill just say screw it and jump in. but those numbers drop every year, and this year the most. worst part is, its not games not showing up. its really late deliveries, toxic white knights, and general bad practices by companies as a whole thats done me in.

Never forget those scammers of Golden Bell Studios. Never forget.

@Sulucion6Tone

Ай бұрын

You are so damn right about that.

@BoardgameHeaven

Ай бұрын

Oh heck yeah. Avoid GBS at all costs. Those are willfull scammers, no doubt.

I think the reason why Kingdom Death gets a pass in terms of delays is because Poots constantly expands the scope of his content at no extra charge. I have no problem waiting for products that exceed my expectations.

@abandonlife111

Ай бұрын

and because his breath is so minty-fresh!♿

@chase9044

Ай бұрын

As a backer of KDM I was pretty sure it would be late because of scope creep. Sometimes it's annoying to think about but when it shows up it's been, so far, worth the wait.

@stevenharris6161

Ай бұрын

Cult of Poots. It has all be worth the wait. I will be there day 1 for when the next crowdfunding campaign drops for Ringtail Fox and beyond.

@garyduddell3224

Ай бұрын

Also there is a regular, in-depth, monthly update. The updates may not be positive in terms of "the games are shipping" but the effort to communicate is there.

@TalasnatheHeartless

Ай бұрын

@@garyduddell3224 communication with backers goes so far in this space. I am not a KDM backer however, I do tune in to their monthly update to see how things are progressing. Meanwhile I can't seem to get a regular Trudvang Legends update...

Massive shout out to Ulisses Spiel and Myth Journeyman. The company behind Myth Journeyman did the KS 9 years ago. The folded. Sold assets to Ulisses Spiel. 7 years after the supposed delivery date... backed got almost everything! Stretch Goals, expansions, etc. Massive number of minis! And Ulisses Spiel did it all... and DIDN'T charge backers a single cent! Not even for shipping! So those companies that genuinely folded due to financial considerations... sell your IP to Ulisses Spiel! Point: for me, Mythic Games killed KS for me. Luckily, my last game was Solomon Kane which delivered. But I was tempted to back Anastyr... good thing I didn't. Their Reichbusters was so bad I've never even played it.

The last update on Stormsunder was completly crazy. The bloodball mini game was so out of place...

Monumental game and Funforge for me---I have less of an issue when a company can't deliver and goes out of business. But, Funforge specifically telling people to back their game because it won't go to retail and then not delivering, but, selling a retail game of Monumental and expansions in stores, while telling backers to be patient and then eventually ghosting backers is a bitter pill to swallow. They could have at least sent backers the retail game, or, a made it possible to pay extra in shipping for a retail game if that wasn't even possible.

@erinallport1

Ай бұрын

Yeah, I agree 💯. The lying is just absolutely not ok. At least man up and say that you spent the money and did t account for budgeting needs. But saying games are shipping in December, and now it's April and we've heard nothing?! Disgusting business. Will never give them another penny now

After the "Serious Timeline" from Kingdom Death the new plan is that the campaign will finish delivering not after 7 years but after 10 years. Considering that folks were quite incredulous during the campaign that the estimate was 4 years it seems a bit ironic. Honestly, I think even that timeline will be delayed a bit to more like 11 or even 12 years until it delivers. However, I think that you are correct that in many cases the campaign has not heard crowd funding. Personally as someone in their 50s now, I will not back another campaign from Kingdom Death for fear of a decade delay but that campaign in particular has not soured me on crowd funding in general (unlike say Mythic Games or Peterson Games).

I think the problem with CMON buying the Mythic games (Hel and Anastyr) is that there was no accountability as to where the funds from the sale were being applied. CMON could've at least dictated to Mythic that some of the funds be refunded to backers. For instance, when Megacon Games went under and couldn't fulfill Myth Journeyman (funded 2015; estimated fulfilment 2016), the IP was eventually sold to Ulisses Spiele who required that Megacon fulfill all the printed material (cards, adventure modules, etc.) as a prerequisite for the sale. Ulisses Spiele agreed to manufacturer all of the minis. Now for the most part the Campaign is finally being fulfilled 8 years late. CMON simply dumped a lot of cash in Mythic Games lap for the IP and and assets. Mythic Games already mismanaged backers' funds once. I wouldn't trust them, to do the right thing given a second chance.

@BoardgameHeaven

Ай бұрын

CMON are just as much to blame as Mythic. MegaCon at least sold Myth to Ulisses under the condition that Ulisses delivered what was promised, and they did. CMON just bought the IP's with no strings attached, Mythic didn't care what CMON did with it, as long as they got paid. And CMON is asking more money for those games now.

It's a shame that Mythic fumbled their business so hard because their games are generally very good. Super Fantasy Brawl and 6 Siege are tons of fun, and I bet if someone swooped in with the funds to finish it, Anastyr would have been solid too.

Definitely Ninja Division/Sodapop miniatures.

Mythic Games without a doubt for me.

One should not forget that Steeped Games only delivered the original 'Chia Tea' to its US backers...... those in Europe were shafted and never saw a copy. KS should not have allowed the Chai Tea for 2 when so many lost out on the original.

@duncanhecht8986

Ай бұрын

I thought they fulfilled the original campaign and failed to deliver overseas on High Tea and Chai reprint.

@PsychicLord

Ай бұрын

@@duncanhecht8986 Either way they should have been banned from KS.

For me it was when Ninja Division stole my 300 dollars for Super Dungeon Explore Legends.

@BoardgameHeaven

Ай бұрын

Same.

Honestly, bad/disappointing crowdfunded games had a larger impact on my crowdfunding experience than late/unfulfilled games. Expensive games which were almost universally disliked upon arriving to backers. Games that, had I made my purchasing decision after reviews were available, I never would have bought in a million years. But now I'm stuck with a mediocre game that I have no hope of getting my money back on. So now, I only really either back second printings or wait for retail.

To add to your list Diemension Games - Dawn of Madness/Deep Madness, Funforge - Monumental, Arcane Wonders - Freedom Five, One for All - Soul Raiders

@Sulucion6Tone

Ай бұрын

Yup - my original comment was for Diemension.. Wow they are horrible, even more so with their constant lies of why things aren't being shipped the past 8 updates.

@dilatedbeholder3865

Ай бұрын

Absolutely Dawn of Madness should be high on any list like this. That game has changed my support for crowd-funding entirely for the worse

Rallyman was my biggest hurt personally. I don't know why, but maybe it's because they seemed like such a reliable company and it got so close to delivering and the game is made but just sitting in limbo somewhere... stormsunder and wild assent I really hope will deliver and even though there is more money involved there, it seems less surprising to me.

@christopherdesmond7511

Ай бұрын

I’m with you regarding Rallyman. I have been a fan of and backed HGG for a while, and backed Rallyman all-in. And while I do believe that there were issues with the distribution company (who, BTW, has not reached out to any backers other than Europe’s backers to offer the wonderful “pay shipping again and we’ll ship you your games”), my real problem with HGG is that they kickstarted Copan, opened the pledge manager for shipping and late backers, and then one month later shuttered their doors. I believe they did this in bad faith. One last paycheck before goodbye. I genuinely thought this company was a good one, but when they did this right before going belly-up, I lost any sense of respect for them.

Funforge....Everything delayed, months without communication.

@erinallport1

Ай бұрын

Was gonna say that too! Their Monumental campaign has been the worst campaign I've been a part of...well, Chai was pretty epically bad too. But Fun Forge has been selling the games AT RETAIL for MONTHS now, and we've still seen nothing. And heard nothing but one lie after another for about 2 years now 🤬

@Fabierien

Ай бұрын

@erinallport1 I am with on that Monumental wait. What I thought was worse is they pretended everything was going well right up until a month before the scheduled release date then, they told us it was going to be late. And we're still waiting. But before that it was the sequel to Tokenko that had years of delays. They finally delivered there so my hopes are there that they will deliver. Still they pretty much broke me from crowd funding.

For me, it’s Diemension Games’ “Dawn of Madness” & Lucky Duck/Van Ryder’s “The Dark Quarter”. I believe I’ll get those games eventually (I hope) and don’t think they are awful people, but it stopped me from backing games forever. I just refuse to be a venture capitalist for board games anymore.

I really appreciate your putting up this video. My experience has been better than your example. One was delayed so long I just packed it away on the self without ever looking at it. Another had their manufacturer go belly up, but they worked hard to deliver a game. With the best parts intact ( I think they lost money). Finally, I gave up on a company that planned to sell the kickstarter games at GenCon before delivering (month or more delay) to me. They finally didn't, but it was unpleasant to deal with it.

I've only had this happen once and it was over a decade ago at this point. It was a reprint of the 2-player game, Odin's Ravens. This was the first time I experienced a Kickstarter just fizzling out and the company going bust. I'm not sure what deal was done behind doors, but eventually all of us were contacted by Osprey Games and received copies of the reprint (that is still available from them today). Since then, 4-year waits for games like 7th Citadel don't even phase me.

Yeah Crowdfunding doesn’t feel as safe as it used to. When legit companies aren’t able to follow through you I think it’s time to pause for a lot of us consumers. Maybe every Kickstarter doesn’t need to be $200+ with unlimited minis, upgrades, and expansions. Lot of great, well intentioned companies seem to be over their heads with the complexity of these projects and the poor communication that comes with them. It’s definitely caused me to slow down.

I'm optimistic on Lazy Squire as well, mainly because they're from my city and I want them to succeed. I'm all-in on Stormsunder and still debating using my returning backer pricing for Lavon Rising

Alex I absolutely get it. Most people get burned and just give up but for me these games failing or succeeding doesn't really make an impact, and I say this as a person who lost a couple of things. Crowdfunding is what it is; you are rolling the dice and you will most certainly be late but you may not ever get it. For me the largest impact is if you screw up then I don't support YOUR games but you screwing up doesn't tarnish my expectations for all games.

Monumental is my sword to the heart. I now typically only back smaller, focused games, or expansions. Larger games raise the time to receive and risk exponentially w/ no options or recourse. Make you feel helpless.

I was never in doubt that 7th Citadel would deliver and from what I’ve played so far it was worth the wait. I still haven’t received Primal though, and there’s a lot of people still waiting for Freedom Five, I’m surprised they didn’t get a mention. Nothing has ever outright burnt me before like Monsterpocolypse though. Mythic Games should have legal action taken against them at this stage.

Any chance you can see if CMON is going to have pledge tiers for those of us getting that Anastyr core box? If I decide to back their campaign it would be nice to be able to get the SG and other KS exclusives without having to buy another corebox

Blacklist games, Mythic and Lazy Squire games is the obvious ones. I was also frustrated with Divinity Original Sin the Board game… But it showed up in the end… But i thought my money was lost along the way.

With regard to a game like Neverland. If we look at Blacklist games or Mythic Games other companies will buy that game title, if it is worthy. Euthia also was sold in this manner. Meaning backers will get it in some form. Hollywood Racers, same story, the creator passed away, but someone else put the game out. Each specific instance the situation is different. CMON for example for HEL will grant prior backers x1 base Core pledge per pledge they had for HEL. So no expansions, but we assume that includes any CMON stretch goals that normally come with a core pledge. Whereas, for Street Masters the backers got their previous pledge which was produced but no money to deliver and if they back the new expansion Kickstarter it will be sent to them. Neverland will suffer a similar fate if in fact there is a problem, such as it was created but can't be shipped due to lack of money. Then it might be sold to a company who has faith in it, as it seems like a solid good game, and if so most likely backers will get the game. But if it was not fully developed like Hel it might be reworked completely by the new company, or it might only need some tweaking. Again, it all depends on the specific circumstances of each particular game and company, but this answer is the Real Answer, the best answer. You should check your games situation. 6-Seige that situation was pay about a 50 percent increase in whatever you spent before so you got the game if you paid another +50 percent of that cost, so if that was 478 dollars, and you paid like 240 or 250 or so slightly higher than 50 percent increase, then you got the game, and didn't lose the value, but if you didn't or could not pay, take a stick and deposit in your rectum as you were screwed. You lost that money and the value. Just like dating a woman who uses you like a Gold Digger and views men as ATM machines. You are left with that same feeling of being Used by an abusive person. I am a backer for Neverland. I have a dog in this fight. I do want the game and not a refund. I will pay more if that is required. I also would not be upset if a new company takes over if that is truly necessary.

These 3 come to mind: 1. EMBER : Obsidian Protocol - backed it in 2019 and still to be shipped. Like you said, im no longer keen to receive and play it. 2. KDM: another one i no longer care. Every item that is coming is going directly to ebay or similar 3. CYBER ODYSSEY: Red Joker might be the new Mythic. I believe i will never see this one.

@Gamebent1

Ай бұрын

I'm in for Okko Chronicles: Cycle of Earth, and I'm starting to accept that The Red Joker will never deliver that game either

@Kopos7

Ай бұрын

@@Gamebent1 yeah, i have been checking that as well to see if there are some updates, but none since December:/

I feel like something like Chai Tea for 2 will never be delivered. No news, no updates that I've seen

I started following crowdfunding about 2 or 3 years ago which was at the tail-end of COVID stuff and supply chain issues so I don't have a full perspective on all of that except that I know it was a huge disruption to a lot of crowdfunding campaigns. The company I followed that I've seen have the most fallout from that was Elf Creek games specifically with the Atlantis Rising: Monstrosities expansion. Elf Creek ran the campaign pre-COVID with cheap shipping and it threatened to shut down the company with losses due to the shipping price hikes when the campaign was ready to ship. They had to ask for significantly more money to get the expansion to people and it upset a lot backers. They have since had to let go most of their employees to keep the company afloat and try to get their remaining campaigns delivered (Honey Buzz expansion, Paradox Initiative). I have personally liked the Elf Creek games I've played and they make premium stuff but I've seen a lot of negative review spamming of their games - not because the game is bad - but because "don't support this terrible company!" I think they tried to hide their financial position for too long and dig out with other campaigns but that didn't work and they to come clean with backers.

Funforge's Monumental delays certainly meant that I turned away from a company I had a pretty favorable feeling towards from retail. Tokaido was such a gem, and then bad communication/lies and constant delays hurt confidence immensely. Steeped Games is another one, where Dan's flat out lies got too much to handle. Thankfully High Tea was delivered, but Tea for Two was an obvious skip based on that campaign. Edit: Also got burnt on the Warehouse 13 expansion. The good part is that they split shipped through the Amazon store, so I'm only out the expansion. It's frustrating that the co-founder has now died, so other than a print-and-play, I dont think this one is ever coming.

I am a backer for Lasting Tales 2 and also ordered the series 1 miniatures as an addon, without realising the problems behind the company and their history. April 20th, 2024 marked the 3rd year anniversay of their funding for that project and I still believe/have hope that there is a chance that it will be delivered, I just can't say when. If I do ever see another project of theirs appear on kickstarter, I will pay $1 to do my civic duty and warn every potential backer to stay away including sharing this video. I understand that there are pallets of completed pledges sitting in warehouses because companies like blacklist games cannot pay the delivery charges, and that those same pallets are accruing storage charges which can also not be paid. I guess I should start keeping an eye on aliexpress. Great video, thank you.

I'm surprised that you didn't add Super Dungeon: Legends by Soda Pop Miniatures under Ninja Division to your list. 6,611 backers at $1,290,522 all got fleeced with their mismanagement, delays, poor excuses and just plain lying. $150 I'll never get back. Yes, I'm still bitter. They used our money to try and fulfil other games, string us along and then ghosted us.

Great video. This is exactly the reason why (along with insane international shipping costs to Australia) I only now back pnp games or very low cost games. I refuse to be a victim. There are loads of other games out there also.

Mythic Games really hurt me with Hel and due to it I avoided Darkest Dungeon. It hurts to know most likely I also won't get the last two characters of Super Fantasy Brawl due to it

You should do a video also on companies that are doing a great job. I backed League of Dungeoneers. The game was due April 2024. It will be a little late. But the communication has been the best I have ever had for a crowdfunding. Great updates with actual information. That makes up for the small delays.

@Sulucion6Tone

Ай бұрын

That company is ran correct for sure, love me some League o Dungeoneers. Another company people Always oversight but has been nothing but pure class is Mantic Games. The last couple campaigns they delivered Early as well and in the Same Year as the kickstarter.

I would have added Kingdom Death monster to the list. I am a Satan Pledge and I might get everything eventually in another 5+ years, but I am not going to back a 3rd KS if they ever launch another one.

I have little enthusiasm for Stormsunder now. I think that it will deliver but I don't much care anymore. What really annoys me about Anastyr is that I suspect Mythic were fully aware of the issues, when the campaign started? They carried on the pretence of offering all this content, that they knew was never going to deliver and even took shipping and taxes, and late pledges, with no intention of honouring this. That is something that I cannot forgive.

@Gamebent1

Ай бұрын

Mythic Games turned into a scam of a company where they just ran a ponzi scheme to have the latest campaign pay for the ones they had no money to create. Mythic Games is dead and no one will support them again.

Not surprised to see Mythic Games at the top. They got me on a Darkest Dungeon All-In. We'll see if they can finish it.

Very cool thanks 😀🤘🏼

I appreciate your optimism regarding lazy squire games, and it's true that they delivered Wild Assent. They are also years overdue on a REPRINT of WA. If it was just Stormsunder I would also be hopeful, but even the updates for WA are a bunch of nothing-burger. I'm afraid that if they cannot fulfill a game that was already finished in a timely manner, and cannot even give an estimation of when it MIGHT that our money is doomed

The makers of Adventures In Neverland still intend to deliver the game though, while not my type game i was aware that they were present last year at spiel with a late stage copy of the game. And they did try to interact in a friendly way with every interested party visiting the booth and potential backer.

The problem with delayed campaigns is not that they are delayed. Well, it is a problem to have a project taking much longer, but is not the central problem. The problem is, people, and companies, but in first place backers, treat crowdfunding as some kind of normal purchase, like in a store. It takes longer, but ok, just get it as presented for the price and at delivery time. But that is not crowdfunding. You fund an idea to create something. And that idea is in a process of changes, that can be good or bad, content or time, success or total failure. You get the promise, to be part of it, and to get the final product. But, there is no guarantee. There are many things I could add to it, but my final conclusion would be, this keeps people away, who just takes crowdfunding as another Amazon way to sell and buy products, and rant about everything that did not go according to their mindset. Well, it might cause less funding next time, but might bring more creativity and better results back.

Palladium was early at screwing backers with their Robotech RPG Tactics. This shows as complete which is true BS as Palladium split the deliveries into waves after the campaign closed then never delivered wave two. They proceeded to massively overproduce an incompetently crafted wave one, partly with Ninja Division, looking to sell the base sets at a high profit and use the money to finish wave two but of course it crashed and burned. Backer money went to making sets for retail, not their pledged items, and Palladium sold pallet loads off kept the cash and told backers "So sorry, that's life." Kickstarter then let then run future campaigns. That one taught some people a lesson by the latest Mythic debacle is I feel the big one. Lots of people are getting publicly reamed there and it shows. Holy Grail Games and Rallman Dirt was as dirty as they come. They were running other crowdfunding games and pushing for payment to get cash just before they went bankrupt when they knew they were doomed. That is true fraud. As bad as it is for the Dirt backers who know their product is sitting in a warehouse in limbo the backers for their other following games know their money went to Dirt and elsewhere and they are getting NOTHING.

@boromir2099

Ай бұрын

I was also going to name Robotech RPG Tactics. This isn’t a new problem in the space, it’s been happening for over a decade now.

Even tho tabletop gaming is the “safest” items to back. I still won’t do it. I really can’t afford to lose that money, I spent it as a treat to myself and to gamble on a chance I might not get something in return is something I just can’t do.

Unconscious Mind: I was tempted to back, but deluxe + shipping $$ so I held off. Turns out its development is still underway. I feel like the campaign page was misleading coz it looked finished... did they present the game board and was surprised by the reception so they decided to go back to the drawing board to upgrade / fine tune the game? I feel it's a grey area that KS doesn't care to hold campaigners accountable to disclose their project progress (at the time of fundraising, and subsequent updates) to manage backers' expectations in the game itself as well as production cost and delivery timeline. KS's loss is Gamefound and BackerKit's gain. If consumers' needs are not addressed by one business, someone else will step in to fill the gap 🤔 💭

@lazulin

Ай бұрын

So I played Unconscious Mind at a convention and found it definitely felt underdeveloped - it was a pretty bad experience. If they decided to bring it back for more playtesting and some streamlining to improve it, I think you'll be happy that they did. The guy teaching it said he'd played an early version of endless winter and it had similar issues that were then ironed out, so I think there's a good reason to hope that this is exactly what they're doing - making the game better.

Super Dungeon Explore Legends hit me hard and one that has me shy away from bigger campaigns. Though I am also hit by Chai Tea for 2.

@BoardGameCo

Ай бұрын

Yeah, super dungeon explorer was a big one

Holy Grail popped my "you're not getting your game" cherry 😂... I was really looking forward to getting Copan too

@Dragonnox

Ай бұрын

The worst thing is they were already in bankruptcy procedures when they launched the Copan campaign, so they knew that the game was never going to be made. They literally stole thousands of dollars.

For me Id say Ive been pretty lucky, the only one that hasn't fulfilled, which many might not really say is a board game "Alba - an open world adventure book" by insidethebox games, under £50 with shipping, one of the cheapest things I've ever backed, luckily for their other titles were picked up by Naylor Games, and I know people who eventually got what they backed with a little extra shipping involved, but it was the turning point that definitely slowed me down, and started researching a lot more, I think videos like this are really important for the hobby, you don't want to lose someone new whos just excited and doesn't know the warning signs others might, not even sure if anyone has done one but maybe a "possible warning signs to not back a game/company" video would be a good follow up, but as always love the content alex

Game Salute was one of the worst offenders for a couple of years. That was around the time that Dan Yarrington had teamed up w/ Zev for some game store - and _that_ was a mess as well. Delayed KS campaigns, downgraded components, straight out lies about why there were delays that contradicted earlier updates. One of the designers has a pretty lengthy rant about his experience with Game Salute on BGG and he didn't pull punches about what happened during production of his game. It's unlikely it would have gone on to be the hit that Everdell was/is, but definitely not a good look for crowdfunding. I've appreciated the companies that pushed through and kept the updates coming even when times were rough. At least they were honest about the issues. Yes, some should have known better after seeing so many other campaigns have issues, but overall crowdfunding hasn't been too bad to judge whether a design is worth bringing to market and if people will pay for it or not. I feel for the companies that had things mostly ready and then shipping charges went insane. All of the budgeted money for actually delivering was gone. Most have corrected for that now, but that was still a rough time when they had everything set and then it just blew up. Most still delivered, but I'm sure some went out of business during or shortly afterward.

Three names came to mind, in this order: Mythic, Petersen, Blacklist. Thankfully I dodged all of these, although did back 7th Citadel, but it's arrived, even though it took years longer than they estimated. I'm also bummed about no follow up to Encyclopedia, it deserves more.

I guess it speaks to my engagement post-backing that I recently received 7th Citadel and honestly didn't even know it was late. I mostly follow updates, but not release windows. Maybe that came from having backed Kingdom Death, which I was pretty confident would deliver despite the delays.

I’ve gotten a few games that took longer and didn’t arrive for months after the promised dates - but Chai Tea for Two is over 2 years from delivery. So I’ve accepted that it’s likely never coming, but I also haven’t backed anything else since then either.

@BoardGameCo

20 күн бұрын

Yep, And that's why I say these games hurt crowdfunding

You missed Eternal Adversary. That game was aptly named. I'm pretty sure Adventures in Neverland is never coming. The last update before the abysmal playmat one was that an optional ship miniature was delaying production.

I backed Dan and Connie's campaign JUST for the dice trays and never received them either 😅

@kumanight

Ай бұрын

I bought the Dice trays at SHUX 2022 & even then, one of them is defective 😂

@brianb5145

Ай бұрын

We're in the same boat.

I honestly don’t mind a delayed game so long as I get it eventually and didn’t have to pay a bunch of unexpected fees. Which is why I wasn’t upset about Robison Crusoe. Primal just arrived 2yrs late and I’m soooooooo hyped for it!

The obvious worst is Mythic Games with Darkest Dungeon, Six Siege, Hel, Anastyr, Monsterpocalyose, and the one other game.

Holy Grail Games, not because they went into liquidation but they mentioned it when there was no chance of salvation. We lucked out through some wonderful people, including the designer, that got into contact with the liquidators and negotiated; we ended up paying WAY too much to the freight company to get our orders but at least we got them. A lot of us were willing to chip in some extra to get it over the finish line because we're huge fans of Rallyman. Consequently, Rallyman GT is my most expensive game by a mile.

"This ice cream store has the BEST ice cream of all time. And it's cheap, too! This is where you can find the bestest and cheapest ice creams in the wholllleee universe. But, sadly, I can't promote or market the ice cream." 😂😂😂😂😂😂 😂😂

We are not getting Chai Tea for 2. The only updates come around convention season and they either backtrack their previous updates or come up with yet another excuse of delays. They literally told us the games are on the boat and said we would have them by January yet gave no actual boat or any sort of actual shipping notification. They will go half a year or more without an update and then update us just in time for conventions.

Robinson crusoe is a good shout - it was meant to be a deluxe edition and it taking so long to deliver put me off portal's other campagins and made me question even 'safe' backs. 7th Citadel didn't seem that bad personally, but I jumped on a little later. Maybe that changed my outlook on it from the norm.

Robinson - never cared much about the delays, but totally understand some of the frustration around the communication and the monkey companion. SS and WA:LR - I have a lot of concerns. They don't sound confident in their own ability to deliver and be realistic about it. Like you said, they seem genuine and with well intent, but at this point they don't even want to put out a date for ETA. Imagine that, they are unable to say when they think it will be done. Every new crowdfunding campaign has an ETA, even if it's unrealistic, even if they only have the basic idea on paper, but LSG are so scared of further disappointment that they won't make an estimate. I consider that worse off than when the campaign first launched. And now they have two massive ambitious projects with multiple waves that they don't know when they'll deliver wave 1... eff, that hurts.

I've been bitten by a few crowdfunding failures (I backed Anastyr 😅) but none of them have really hurt my opinion of crowdfunding as much as my increasingly limited shelf space has put a damper on my desire to back new games 😂

On the subject of KDM I think most current backers are forgiving because the very first KDM kickstarter was massively late. People got in on 1.5 with the expectation that they would be late too. People did get miffed, particularly in the Reddit, but on the whole (for right or wrong) most of us just accept this as part of the cost. I should mention that The Gamblers Chest grew substantially since it first appeared as part of the 1.5 Kickstarter. People who backed it at that time paid next to nothing for a piece of content almost as large as the base game. Sadly I didn't back it originally but still added it to my pledge soon enough afterwards that what I obtained was still a LOT for what I paid. So yes, people who backed during the KS waited a very long time but they also got a lot more content than they originally paid for. But I may just be huffing on the copium - I am kind of an addict for KDM and the associated hobby aspects (painting, etc). :P

I have not backed a project in 2024. I think the last one I backed was Dragon Eclipse. AR and CMON are the only companies I have faith in to deliver my games. Though with CMON the prices and sameness of their games has kept me from backing anything from them since MZ. It's too expensive to CF games most of the time. There haven't been good deals in a very long time. I've buying 99% of my games at retail now. It's usually very easy to seek out deluxifications if I want them.

I thought that the rules for these crowd funding platforms stated you cant have more than one unfunded project on crowdfunding. I remember when this was talked about and i was under the impression that it was policy for kickstarter and gamefound at the time. Perhaps such a policy needs to be put in place and enforced. It should minimize the amount of undeliverable products bc it wouldnt allow publishers to do one campaign to pay for another, and it wpuld discourage publishers who dont know how to run a crowdfunding project, so they would be less likely to screw people over.

Honey Buzz is another massive failure. Non-existent communication, all deadlines missed. Just horrible.

Mythic Games's Anastyr campaign; bad financial management is one thing but charging for shipping something that doesnt exist and will never ship is criminal.

Actually, I've had problem with their dice trays as well. The first one fell apart the day after I bought it. The replacement won't remain snapped.

Rallyman is a complex issue. The fulfillment centers for Europe and North America had not been paid for prior fulfillment of HGG products. They received the stock but refused to distribute until the account was brought up to date. HGG did not have the money and went into bankruptcy proceedings. Nine months ago The fulfillment center in Europe was allowed to distribute the games and charge their normal shipping fees (which had already been paid for) and the people who agreed to pay were sent their games. How ever we have no word on North American stock. One good thing was the rights to the game were sold to Synapse Games of Canada and all Rallyman games and expansions are going to be produced. The good part is Synapse was not allowed any KS information on customers awaiting NA fulfillment, meaning the bankruptcy case is still underway in France. So either by buying it again from Synapse or paying shipping from the fulfillment center (eventually) it will be available. HGG was 5 people and got destroyed by the huge price hikes at the start of Covid.

@BoardGameCo

15 күн бұрын

That's some solid info, thank you!