Veetor was a rouge... One of the best, because you didn't know...

@SmolFenFen

3 жыл бұрын

Yes he was especially good at hiding blemishes and adding color to women's cheeks. Lol

@CMAzeriah

3 жыл бұрын

The best lie is truth.

@demolisherman1763

3 жыл бұрын

I was never really on your side

@johnisaacfelipe6357

3 жыл бұрын

I mean, its kinda impossible not to know given the mechanics of the game. It a good story but highly unlikely that it happened in real life.

@SiNFPVGUAM

3 жыл бұрын

My right thumb is just faster than my left...

"Even the party didn't know he was a rogue." Veetor rolling for damage: "It's not 'sneak attack', it's just a really good rapier!"

@gerihuginn2143

Жыл бұрын

It was too sneaky for them so see .

@t1czer

Жыл бұрын

So... A sneaky sneak attack?

@diabolusabinfernum3461

Жыл бұрын

@@t1czer The sneaky-deekiest of sneak attacks

@legendaryseph9406

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I understand no one knowing he’s a rouge, but how the hell did the logistics of that work and the mechanics with keeping that secret lol

@andyknightwarden9746

Жыл бұрын

@@legendaryseph9406 *rogue "What class are you?" "Class? Well, clearly, I'm very high-class; I make myself impeccable in dress, manner, and attitude. Which is far more than I can say for you. Can I offer some fashion tips for you?" In other words, either no one asked, or he deflected expertly. I doubt this party rolled checks between each other, since that's more of a roleplay thing than a PC vs NPC thing.

I honestly despise people that find status, wealth, and prestige to be viable excuses when it comes to sins. For example, the party was furious when they came upon that burning village, saying things like "we're gonna butcher the monsters that did this." They find that it had been done by soldiers of an empire they're allied with, and suddenly it's all good? Where'd that rage go? That sense of 'justice'? The guy killed bad people in bad ways for the good of common folk, and his motives could not be disproven. He accepted no coin, did his research on WHO he was killing, showed remorse to those who deserved it, and was non-lethal if he deemed it possible. The party made their name on killing whatever high society paid them to kill without question or qualm. And they called 'him' the monster and stabbed him to death. Outlandishly deluded, in my opinion. It makes no sense to me.

@OriginalCreatorSama

3 жыл бұрын

Given the kind of characters i tend to play, and my own rigid moral compass, i likely would have joined Veetor. When you've tried everything else and the corrupt still walk free, sometimes the only way out is for them to die.... and waiting for the natural way almost always results in years of horrific bloodshed at their hand. Sometimes.... sometimes a killer is the only way to save millions. (this does not reflect my personal irl choices in the same scenarios, i would have let him go and told him to be more like Marvel's Daredevil and try prosecution first, leave killing as a last resort. murder is almost always avoidable irl, imo)

@blackstag9366

3 жыл бұрын

@@OriginalCreatorSama Imparting death unto others deserving is a facet of life we cannot avoid, in terms of DnD and in life. When we no longer need armies, or weapons, or a need to defend ourselves from our own kind, we can claim to have reached a higher understanding of existence. Until then... I say deal out the cards to those who decide to call.

@OriginalCreatorSama

3 жыл бұрын

@@blackstag9366 Agreed, but all life is important and irreplaceable. We should make damn sure they can't change for the better before we decide death is necessary. It should always be the last resort, not the first.

@LeonardoPostacchini

3 жыл бұрын

@@OriginalCreatorSama although what you just said should be held true, it is an hypocrisy to only use that argument to protect the rich and powerful or your friends but kill with abandon others like the party did. As most d&d parties do.

@OriginalCreatorSama

3 жыл бұрын

@@LeonardoPostacchini Agreed. irl i use that for everything and everyone, in dnd i am not myself and therefore act accordingly, but my own morals are somewhat infused in my characters because mine are so rigid it is actually painful to even pretend to go against some of them.

THIS IS HOW YOU DO A TRAGIC BACKSTORY ROUGE WITHOUT MAKING HIM LOOK SO EDGY OR FLAT! 10/10 Give the madman who crafted such an intelligent, layered, and honestly deceptive character an award or encourage him to be a writer of some sort. It takes talent to make shit like that.

@sealtyk

Жыл бұрын

While well crafted I still feel it was heavy handed and edgy

Gentlemen characters are so fun to roleplay. I love these stories.

@melissawardjohns220

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely! Regardless of race or class!

@asherjohnston689

3 жыл бұрын

Personally I’m a fans of suave sadists

@tristanjones5579

3 жыл бұрын

Gentleman rogues are the greatest

@aaronmathewson5522

3 жыл бұрын

I tried one for my first character ever, and immediately broke the DMs game so badly that it ended the game. He honestly didn’t know how to deal with my character.

I swear my favorite dnd stories always seem to involve someone questioning a paladin's righteousness. In turn, love when the rogues get philosphical.

@kosimochaosbold7544

3 жыл бұрын

You did see the "Assasins makes Paladin doubt his righteousness with a single phrase"? It's simmilar in terms of the question it brings up.

@Sarcastic_Sophist

3 жыл бұрын

That I did. Was another great vid.

@ArcCaravan

3 жыл бұрын

Honestly that becomes its own cliche.

@victormagoco9752

3 жыл бұрын

@@ArcCaravan well, everything good eventually becomes a cliche, that’s why I value quality over originality

@KristofferEk

3 жыл бұрын

I belive the story of the Grey necromancer had a simular feel to it and it's such a good three or four parter as well.

Story of every d&d group Rogue: Yeah so I just slash up one or two people now and then Paladin: That's so cruel! How could you do such a thing? Murder is wrong! Rogue: Hey you remember a few days ago when you smited a goblin so hard he exploded in a shower of blood? Paladin: Yes? Rogue: And then our party member who speaks goblin told you he was begging for his life and saying he had a family? Paladin: What about it? Rogue: Oh, nothing...

@andyknightwarden9746

Жыл бұрын

Part of me wants to take that seriously, while another part wants to mention the wizard who always casts fireball on everything.

@saitouhajime3

Жыл бұрын

@@andyknightwarden9746 Why both both? Sometimes it seems like those without magic see the devastation and want to ask, but the casters don't give two shoots

@robertcartledge826

Жыл бұрын

@@saitouhajime3 that is because nothing is more important than fireball! FOR FIREBALL!!!!

@ashannahensley3288

Жыл бұрын

@@saitouhajime3 Heck in our second ever DnD game. Went to the bathroom, and in that time: *Vampire Lord* (Chaotic Evil PC) cut of our hands and hand them strangle our PC (Chaotic Neutral, who's only combat action was killing a goblin horde in the backlines.) to death. *Lich* raised our corpse to be his slave. *VL* blew up our corpse. Came out of the bathroom 5 mins later, asked the *Lawful Good Paladin*, why he let our PC die to Chaotic Evil Characters. Looks us dead in the eyes, and in all seriousness said. "You weren't a lawful aligned character, so I'm not obligated to help you." So yeah. The Paladin being all "Yeah, it's okay to kill off a random innocent who isn't my alignment. What are you getting at?" is relatable. ---- Although tbh, that was better than our first DnD game where our DM kill us off to make a rape joke. (Killed by a Barbarian Skeleton without allowed to do a saving throw so the DM could yell out loud "You were killed by a raging boner.")

@user-pu6pn8vt5d

Жыл бұрын

@@ashannahensley3288 You need to find a better group.

"You killed innocent people." "A means to an end!" "You started a massacre!" "I caused a revolution!" "YOU BETRAYED THE LAW!" "LAAAAAWWWWW!!!"

@KZBluCaesar3

3 жыл бұрын

Am I wrong, or is this the exchange between Dredd and Rico in the original Judge Dredd movie?

@SaltpeterTaffy

3 жыл бұрын

@@KZBluCaesar3 You are correct, sir!

@KZBluCaesar3

3 жыл бұрын

@@SaltpeterTaffy I knew that I knew those lines!!! And so fitting!!!!

@hunterv9983

3 жыл бұрын

Of all the 21st century remakes of 20th century cheesey r- rated movies, Judge Dredd had an r-rating

@SaltpeterTaffy

3 жыл бұрын

@@hunterv9983 Of all the 21st century remakes of 20th century movies, Dredd was also a vast improvement.

Honestly Veetor is right, I don't agree with his methods, but someone needs to take action when justice turns a blind eye to corruption.

@nicoruppert4207

3 жыл бұрын

Off with the tyranids heads

@corksucker

3 жыл бұрын

Murder is justice?

@Kapuchinik

3 жыл бұрын

@@corksucker No. But you need a contexts.

@corksucker

3 жыл бұрын

@@Kapuchinik can you explain your reasoning further for me

@Yusei1Fudo

3 жыл бұрын

@@corksucker ever heard of "eating the rich"

Ora: there must to be a better way! Veetor: there must be, certainly, but until you find it don't try to stop me

@arnoldvalerostv5550

3 жыл бұрын

good thing he didnt say "no bro this is only good thing"

@TheShuuman

Жыл бұрын

How you worded this reminded me of Epsileon from Megaman X Command Mission. Yes he took over Giga City, but he forced the humans off peacefully rather than slaughtering them. Wild Jango, Silver Horn and Botos were pieces of shit that deserved what they got and I feel no remorse for putting them down. Though Scarface, Pheram, to some extent Dr. Psyche and naturally Epsilon himself I didn't feel so good fighting them, especially after Scarface heroically sacrificed himself to buy time for Epsilon to escape, but he refuses. After beating him he said a line that haunts me to this day nearly 20 years later. "Power, without power our ideals would be ignored. What other choice did we have?!" X's feeble bargaining of there could have been a better way...probably reminded him too much of the Repliforce incident. After the ending I felt an extreme sense of revulsion after Epsiolon was "deferred" after his death when the matter as far as that government was concerned settled. After all can't have another Repolid preaching about independence after Sigma after all. I was honestly kind of hoping that Sigma was behind it again, not unlike the players. I hadn't beaten X8 yet so the revelation from THAT ending wasn't known to me yet. After running the boss gauntlet and getting to the final boss I found out that no. No Sigma being the puppetier, it was just greed from someone pure and simple. It was one of the first instances in a game that i felt used and I put the final boss down in a rage I hadn't felt towards a piece of media before. Hell the ending theme for Command Mission "O-Parts" doesn't even feel like a triumph symphony after "saving" the world. It just feels sad and meloncholic and it just made me think "Did we really do any good back there?" It stuck with me a really long time and its difficult for me to go back to that game despite it being one of my favorite X games. It kind of recontexualizes a lot of the X series in a lot of ways for me. How much was X doing good stopping Sigma and how much as Veetor saw it "Keeping the world compliant?" The Repliforce Incident, The Nightmare Investigators and Red Alert all kind of shook me after Command Mission and when I did beat X8 Lumine hit me with something else that sticks to me. "Was Sigma really crazy?" Sigma was a monster no doubt, especially by the latter games. At the same time it always made me wonder. Did Sigma simply *choose* to go rogue in the original X game and was later warped by the original Maverick Virus. After all he doesn't achieve his viral form until the second game. The other is did he go crazy the moment his resistance was broken by the virus? If anything after Command Mission it has made a certain variety of games difficult to play despite my massive enjoyment of them. It also makes me internally flinch whenever I hear friends casually belittle characters after their defeat or death. Whew alright didn't mean to spill my soul out, but I get like this whenever I'm tired. Anyway ya'll have a good saturday.

@invisibleaccount9284

Жыл бұрын

Ora’s got the backstory of a bbeg at this point

“The world is on fire, but I will not stop.” A very powerful line.

“Fools. I die, and now the blood of thousands of innocents will flow as the melt-waters of spring. Drown in the lives I killed to save, now damned by your hubris and hypocrisy.”

@collinpannell6831

3 жыл бұрын

whats that from?

@shadeslinger7986

3 жыл бұрын

Im going to use this line when one of my players gets kill happy.

@tomsawyerpiper9412

2 жыл бұрын

@@collinpannell6831, didn’t lift it from anything, it’s my own little quote.

@DrCruel

2 жыл бұрын

_"Yama yama, tani tani."_ -Oda Nobunaga, on the destruction of the Ikko Ikki sect

@lydiadiangelo2588

Жыл бұрын

How very poetic. It's well written, bleak and dark yet, it reads like silk.

That's the kind of Order v. Freedom Assassin's Creed WISHES it could do, you even have the assassinations done right.

@R3GARnator

3 жыл бұрын

An actual Order vs Freedom struggle would get in the way of the history and conspiracy theory jerking off.

Sometimes the world doesn’t need another hero, sometimes it needs a monster

@hojdoj3567

3 жыл бұрын

here's a quote that i came up with "there's no good or evil power, just the way it is used"

@NeonRahkshi

3 жыл бұрын

Heroes come in many forms...

@datkhornedog899

3 жыл бұрын

Yes.

@II-wu7mx

3 жыл бұрын

Especially when the dm tells the story that way!

@chasepeeler9188

3 жыл бұрын

Dracula Untold quote?

“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.” ― Socrates

Author of this here: Yoooooo this is my story I submitted a while back! That's awesome to see it made into a vid XD amazing work as always dude! If y'all got questions let me know below I'm happy to explain some stuff I may have missed when writing this. A few things below though: I did want to add, since I saw some questions and stuff, the game was played with most of us having a background in theater but not much dnd experience. There was no railroading on anything, we had honestly done just about everything and that was the last story we had left to wrap up. Characters got to handle their demons, and other stuff had been explored and done. Everyone got these huge archs with their characters, this was not a soapbox situation, I kid you not when I say we had like 8-9 sessions if not more for Ora's grand "finale" if you will for her character arch. This was just veetor's thing. Most sneak damage was kept a secret the DM just did it on the back end without others knowing. By back end I mean she rolled the damage for it. She also did this with any poisons the ranger applied to their arrows, etc etc. Finally, Veetor was not a perfect man. Veetor was a flawed and broken Psychopath that wanted to do things his way. He went out of his way to gather information to ensure a single kill left no power vacuum or too great a power vacuum. His long term plan was essentially, keep tensions high and finally bring together peace talks, eliminate the last trouble makers, then ensure peace by threat to those in charge. Was it a perfect plan? Hell no, but Veetor wasn't a hero in his eyes, just a broken man that thought he was right. All in all it was a great time and we were all friends after, even now we keep in touch a bit. If you got questions just let me know. DnD is awesome and I'm always happy to talk about it.

@ornerylurker8296

3 жыл бұрын

No wonder even the hidebound good guys were so compelling and relatable! You lot are a dream team together that's for sure. Kudos on "accidentally-ing" a masterpiece short story into existence, at least in my book.

@HereticalFunHouse

3 жыл бұрын

@Rubedo Alaberti The hidden character sheets was a real fun touch XD highly recommend. Man that's a tough one. I think Veetor would disagree with Thanos but ultimately accept it since he's not picking and choosing, he's just letting random chance balance everything. Hope that helps XD

@AliceIsSleepy

3 жыл бұрын

@Rubedo Alaberti I mean... Thanos objectively did a LOT wrong,no matter what system of morality you subject yourself to because he was *dumb*.

@budgetcoinhunter

3 жыл бұрын

Man, this was damn good. I can't find any fault in Veetor's logic, which makes it so more compelling. He is basically the poster for Well-Intentioned Extremist, and the kicker is that it's demonstrably effective. He even seemed to intentionally be as brutal as possible so maybe those nobles with some self-preservation instincts would clean up their act and reduce his 'necessary' body count (after all, part of politics relies on knowing others' dirty laundry and hiding your own as best as possible). Was there any success there? Secondly, what alignment was Ora, and did she suffer a change when she murdered Veetor? I'd really hope so.

@HereticalFunHouse

3 жыл бұрын

@@budgetcoinhunter Yes actually. So Ora's player (who is a good friend of mine) learned what an oath breaker was after that. We were all noobs and teenagers so even after two years we were quite literally still asking dumb questions. So She (the player) has Ora become an oath breaker and true neutral. In that she abandoned any faith in the law and any faith in people. She didn't want to hurt others so she just kinda..... did nothing after that lol.

Affably Evil is this guys alignment. Just because he's a "Bad Guy" doesn't mean that he's a "bad" guy. This is honestly one of the best D&D stories I've heard in a long time.

@jacobp.2024

3 жыл бұрын

Ignorant Evil was the party's alignment.

@krofgninut5984

3 жыл бұрын

Villified good. His motives were unquestionably good, its his methods that the party had a problem with (and who he was targeting, that the corrupt nobles had a problem with)

@shadowstepus

3 жыл бұрын

Chaotic good

@aharreld2340

3 жыл бұрын

Beyond a shadow of a doubt the guy was Chaotic Good, though, arguably, lawful good (adhering to a strict moral code and all that). Either way, definitely a good aligned character.

@shadowstepus

3 жыл бұрын

@@aharreld2340 I didn’t consider that he could be lawful good until reading this, I fell into the trope again

Ora's black and white mentality did more damage than she intended (I don't know what her Wis score was but it must've been pretty low). Veetor made it a point to know all sides of the story before making his own judgement and I respect that.

@kereminde

3 жыл бұрын

I don't think their Wis score had to be very low, I rather think it was simply their character.

@kereminde

3 жыл бұрын

@Adventurer Or the player chooses to 'lean into' the character stats.

@kereminde

3 жыл бұрын

@Adventurer Which is how you get characters who are supposed to be dumber than rocks doing complex strategic planning because the player ignores it and the GM can't enforce it without blowback.

@kereminde

3 жыл бұрын

@Adventurer See, that block of text is why I'm not actually going to take this conversation any further. Stay safe, neighbor, it's been a pleasure!

@arnox4554

3 жыл бұрын

Actually... I think the problem is with the DM. Yes, you read that correct. Let me explain. Veetor sounds great on paper but he and the predicaments around him suffer from some oversimplification of real world events and motivations. Veetor in particular is described as faultless. Perfect and pure in every respect. And this annoys me slightly because even gods in D&D aren't as faultless as Veetor is depicted. Everything Veetor does turns out successfully. Exactly as he planned. None of his kills are unintended. All of his plans go off without a hitch. Everyone loves everything he does. For better and for worse, this is not how the world works at all... Consider a population where perhaps they are actually too uneducated to see the bad conditions they are in and love their king. Or perhaps someone behind the scenes with lots of political influence was making awful selfish decisions but was using another noble/general/etc. as a patsy for their selfish acts and Veetor slays the scapegoat instead of the real perpetrator. Or maybe Veetor slays all the right people, but the nobility concoct a plan to spread propaganda, blaming him for all the horrible conditions and painting him as a mindless psycho, deserving of being put down and little else. Or maybe Veetor slays all the right people and the people all agree with him, but are too scared and run down by the ruling class to actually get up and fight, making his killings almost pointless. Or maybe the majority of the lower class are just as bad as the ruling class, and the two classes actually deserve each other. The DM doesn't present any of these circumstances though nor brings up the possibility of them. Now, to be fair, the players didn't either, but I feel like they felt something was wrong with this whole setup, but for whatever reason, they just couldn't put their finger on what exactly was wrong, so they couldn't tell Veetor off and were left just standing there awkwardly.

Nobles will write him in history as a monster and slowly his good intentions will be forgotten among higher society known as nothing more than a butcher of the innocent the poor however shall remember his name as the true hero of men and women he tried to end corruption but that's a losing battle from the start

@ArcCaravan

3 жыл бұрын

Except he never went public.

@Dahaka-rd6tw

3 жыл бұрын

@@ArcCaravan Now that you mentioned. I think that even if they managed to bring Veetor alive to rulers of country, they probably would all be punished & maybe even potentially TPKlled "for bringing this disaster for monarchy"

@Cyko67

3 жыл бұрын

... “history is written by the victors” -somewhere/someone I admittedly forgot

@SonsOfLorgar

3 жыл бұрын

@@ArcCaravan Ah, but there is always unseen witnesses, the homeless beggar, the kid running an errand, the servant girl emptying her abusive masters chamber pot... All people who might not have reported the crimes for fear of beeing falsely accused of the crimes comitted by and to people of visibly higher standing... But when the lizard gentleman was slain, and accounts of the circumstances, nature and motives of his acts spread, those witnesses will add their accounts to the story and spread it. All it takes, is for someone to formulate a better alternative of organising a community, a region, a country, and spreading it alongside this story of martyrdom of attempted justice in the face of authoritarian feudal corruption and the revolution will only be possible to prevent through proactive democratic reform. The latter is what IRL prevented a Swedish socialist revolution inspired by the Russian October revolution in 1917. The King, the house of knights, the conservative party and the church all surrendered their veto privilieges and sat down with the representatives of the democratic socialist party founded by the national assembly of Labour Unions, and negotiated a new, mostly democratic, constitution and legal system that over time and further negotiations resulted in a representative democracy with the king left as a mostly ceremonial head of state. It is, however, not a done deal. Rights has to be defended, and they are very much under attack now more than ever in living memory.

@user-pu6pn8vt5d

2 жыл бұрын

What's so "losing" about this battle? If the party didn't act like a bunch of self-righteous hypocrites, he would've won.

I wouldn't call him 'psychopathic', he was pragmatic, using that Tywin Lannister logic, "Explain to me why it is more noble to kill 10,000 men in battle than a dozen at dinner." He is a lot of thing but he definitely isn't 'right'.

@soupryu

3 жыл бұрын

But what is right ? Morality has no basis except for what the majority think. Murder may be wrong in one mans eyes but in another it may be the right thing to do. Morality is a teo faced coin so it's not possible to say what is right.

@williamblackfyre4866

3 жыл бұрын

​@@soupryu D&D has it's own morality system, from LG to CE, and in no way would murder be 'right' or 'good' But even in the real world, morality is the distinction between right and wrong. What you are saying is that there is no distinction because it comes down to perspective...which means morality doesn't exist because there is no distinction between the two....this is incorrect on many levels. Not just the fact that no first world legal system condones murder, but we as humans have an innate morality, we know when what we are doing is wrong, or right. Deep down we know what feels right and what feels wrong, that is how morality came to be, that sick guilty feeling you get when you know you did wrong to someone. So no, I don't agree, morality exists in society and it exists in all of us, I don't care if a handful of people out the the vast majority deny it.

@richardwarnercool1

3 жыл бұрын

Here's the problem with the Tywin explanation though. Yes it is more pragmatic to kill a dozen at dinner, than 10'000 men in a battle. But when you, as one of the most powerful men in the kingdom, breaks a rule that everyone holds to, it lessens the character of the entire land. The rule of guest right was something that the entire land believed in, it was a universal standard that everyone lived by. And with a dozen deaths at a dinner, the entire nation could no longer trust each other.

@soupryu

3 жыл бұрын

Yet morality changes immensely with a few actions. Legality and morality are different, I would like to leave them out in this discussion. Also, I would like to say that I subscribe to the common morality to be kind to others. Anyway, as I said morality change over time. Some 200 years ago slavery was a common practice. The majority thought it was fine. From egypt to america slaves were used and many owners wouldn't give a second thought. They were the majority so does that mean they were right ? Furthermore the death penalty still exists. It's just in this case Veetor took it upon himself to be judge, jury, and executioner. He had fair means to do it and for the public his actions were righteous so does that make them right ? I am just saying that morality is much more than right or wrong. You can't say murdering a murderer is wrong but you can't necessarily say it's right either. I don't believe in a innate system of morality as everyone is different. Different cultures, social standings, beliefs. Someone may find it morally acceptable to waste food because they can buy more whenever. While others may try not to waste anything as people are starving in othe parts of the world.

@homelessperson5455

3 жыл бұрын

I've seen "psychopathic" and "pragmatic" be defined synonymously before. The most commonly defined trait of psychopathy is a lack of emotion and acting purely on efficiency for their interests. If veetor's nature as a lizardfolk, and his lack of emotion are anything to go off of, it would be possible to say that the actions were taken not from felt emotion, but from a sense of purpose in the acts. But, definitions of psychopathy and sociopathy that I've seen have countless inconsistencies. Which makes sense considering most psychologists won't be getting to evaluate somebody that is under the impression that the world will turn on them, if they are suspected of such conditions. So, the research pool is slim.

If you think about it, the only difference between a paladin and a BBEG tends to be what side of the battlefield they are on and the company they keep.

@corksucker

3 жыл бұрын

Lol if you think about it the only difference between the BBEG and the players is their differences

@jonsimpson6240

3 жыл бұрын

And the actions they take, the reasons behind their decisions and the process they go through to reach their goals.

@johnballard3403

3 жыл бұрын

@@jonsimpson6240 That's kind of what I was trying to say. There aren't a lot, if any, differences between how your stereotypical Paladin behaves in comparison to your classic BBEG. Their reasoning is more often then not the same line of thought as well. It's the notion that most people are the heroes of their own story. The litch might have a reason for draining all life from the land and building an army of the undead. Doesn't mean what they are doing isn't wrong, but that doesn't mean that marching up to its tower and brutally butchering it before ransacking the place for valuables is right either. From what I have seen, Paladins and BBEGs have the same rational and methods in getting what they want. The differences are all superficial. What side of an imaginary line you are on, whether those who fight beside you would be welcome in a civilized bar afterwards.

@ArcCaravan

3 жыл бұрын

@@johnballard3403 If nobody is wrong, nobody can be criticized.

@ArcCaravan

3 жыл бұрын

@@corksucker Nice.

These Lawful Good Paladins remind me of the Lawful Stupid comic book trope "No...I can't kill the bbeg...or else I'm just as evil as him!" They say after killing hundreds of underlings, too poor to get better jobs. Wow. Such good. Very morals.

@Orinslayer

3 жыл бұрын

Lawful evil vs lawful stupid.

@WhamBamTySam

3 жыл бұрын

@@Orinslayer Not to be 2edgy4you, but if Veetor is lawful evil for killing tyrants then there probably isn't a single DnD player character who is not also lawful evil. The rest of the party seemed like murder hobos compared to Veetor. The only difference is that they killed as a group instead of alone.

@Orinslayer

3 жыл бұрын

@@WhamBamTySam Veetor is the good guy no doubts

@lamihadamshareef5270

3 жыл бұрын

@@Orinslayer But with very cruel method

@LeonardoPostacchini

3 жыл бұрын

@@lamihadamshareef5270 where is the cruelty? Nowhere is said he tortured the victims, no where is said he imparted extra suffering on them, as far as i see he did a clean kill and then butchered the body, you can argue that it is disgusting, not cruel, from the definition: Cruel: willfully causing pain or suffering to others, or feeling no concern about it. One can argue that he did care about the suffering, there is no sign that he did enjoy the killing. “Felling no concern about the suffering “ seem to fit the party when killing the bandits, the kobolds, etc. In fact, the only one that cared was Veetor.

The BBEG here was the social structure's elite aspect, which was paying the party to do their bidding for them. Veetor was the hero, while the party stumblingly began to realize they were the ones serving darkness. Amazing twist, kudos to the DM for such subtle social commentary in a game.

you had a previous story "not all BBEGs are evil" This is a further twist. the players were all the BBEGs

@ArcCaravan

3 жыл бұрын

Technically the BBEG here would be Veetor or the nobles/royals the others served. The rest of the PCs would be pawns in the middle.

@adriangraham2131

3 жыл бұрын

Good and evil are subjective,I remember our teachers telling us that in school. What you find to be evil or good could be the opposite for someone else,that morals mean little in the face of survival and war,that sometimes you have to make a tough decision that will label you as evil or bad,but that's because folks are often blinded by the truth and morality of life. I have never forgotten those words and live by that, because I honestly agree with it,good,evil,morals,all of that is subjective and matters little on the face of survival. It's hard for a person to look at it from someone else's perspective,to understand why they did what they did.

@SkyboxMonster

3 жыл бұрын

Naa man. Subjective just means the person is using a unreliable metric to measure against. themselves. the interactions between the subject and other people, society, and the environment can all be measured. The metric I use pulls from that data.

@SkyboxMonster

3 жыл бұрын

a good example. a doctor giving a young child a shot. The doctor is doing an objectively good thing. preventing a future disease from killing the child. the child just knows this man in white put a sharp think into his arm and it hurt lots so the man must be evil. my point is there is an Objective answer to a subjective experience.

@solopowermove2131

3 жыл бұрын

Based on the very definition of "objective" and "subjective", you would be wrong. Objectively the doctor potentially saved the kids life. But subjectively believes he is doing the right thing by doing so. Objectively the kid is hurt by the needle and is unknowingly protected. The kid subjectively and naively hates the doctor for causing him pain. Did I really save the kid? What does it mean to save someone? Is it to make the child feel better or myself? The child might still die despite my work? All I know is that I prevented one cause of death by doing what I can. Does the kid really hate the doctor directly or is it just a dislike of the moment? What does it mean to truly hate someone? Was the kid simply exaggerating how much it hurt but stubbornly persisted? That needle really hurt though. Emotions are always subjective as their is no way to measure them or even prove if they are the true feelings of the person.

i belive some of you should listen to a necromancers words. "rest well fool. you died a hero. i will personally make sure you have a place in my phylactery"

@dylanpino3359

3 жыл бұрын

What is this quote from?

@dragonarchive7443

3 жыл бұрын

Nice

@akedus44

3 жыл бұрын

@@dylanpino3359 Tactical dot.

@FaiAstriel

3 жыл бұрын

@@dylanpino3359 The Greatest Necromancer of all

Lizardfolk are always a win. One of my favorite PC races.

My dm actually used Veetor as an NPC. Before my character became an adventurer, he was just like your typical drow, heading off to the surface to kill some surface dwellers. Soon he came across a well dressed lizard folk who my character mistakenly thought was a dragonborn. He rushed in to slice his head off and.....got his butt kicked. Veetor layed his ass out, but of course didn't kill him, which perplexed the drow. After a few days of talking and traveling my drow had a new understanding of the surface world, and decided to explore it rather than destroy it.

@mr.killwolf6667

Жыл бұрын

nice

@Taygon45

4 ай бұрын

Which is funny, Veetor operates very similarly to Eilistraee, the only good Drow deity. I think anyone that follows her would be a comrade to Veetor.

Honestly, this is one of the best D&D stories I have ever heard, with emotional and philosophical complexities from something like Berserk. Veetor is also one of the best characters that I have seen, not only is he clever and charming as well as a unique interpretation of a creature that is rarely used in such a way, but his story and role in the game evolved into something that feels like it should be canon or made into an official novel on par wit the Mighty Nine and Vox Machina.

@tysondennis1016

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, that sounds fun.

I think it was a little of both, honestly. Both had good points, society breaks down without some sort of unifying force, but at the same time, there are those that basically game the system for their own personal benefit at the expense of everyone else.

this is a rogue that is actually really cool. hes a a badass

The fact that Veetor did not literally live out the phrase "Eat the rich" seems unfair.

“The only difference between good and evil is who tells the story.”

@LocalMaple

3 жыл бұрын

We believe all sorts of things that aren’t true. We call it history. 🎵 A man’s called a traitor, or liberator. A rich man’s a thief, or philanthropist. Is one a crusader, or ruthless invader? It’s all in which label is able to persist.

@II-wu7mx

3 жыл бұрын

Tell me the story of Dahmer in which he is the good guy.

@triggerbot3284

3 жыл бұрын

Technically speaking, given that this is a DnD where Gods exist and represent Good/Evil/Law/Chaos, the idea that there is this massive logical grey area like Veetor suggest is actually kind of unrealistic.

@azureflame2223

3 жыл бұрын

As it's said: "history is written by the victors"

@falling_bones

3 жыл бұрын

@@triggerbot3284 Is neutral not also a placement? Those who make choices for their own whim? While it’s certain the gods would see Veetor as they will- those opinions would differ, likely. There is an ever existing gray area in all places, it’s simply a matter of finding it, hm? Perspectives shift, ideas grow, and fate fades.

that... that hurt... he was right for it all... he tried to help all he could only killing the evil... brutality may not be a good thing but needed… he was right he did good until the party realized what they doing... i almost want to make a character like him but i know... i could never come close enough to capture his greatness even into a copy

@arcaniumdragon2444

3 жыл бұрын

Same.

Some people say that the world is not black or white , and they are right , because the world is painted in so many colors and nuances , is beautiful isn't it

@stormflyer6574

3 жыл бұрын

The main colour is red

@johncena1777

3 жыл бұрын

Ok frate da cine te-a intrebat?

@TheAsylumCat

3 жыл бұрын

While yes, the shades do exist, so do a great many others in between and besides them

@alincimpean6724

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheAsylumCat your right , and that's what makes life so great

@tholgrimstonebeard5943

3 жыл бұрын

Ironically, to claim that there is no black and white in the world is a black and white claim. It's like saying that absolutes are evil.

something I try to keep in mind is that in most scenarios. your actions will make you the villain in someone's story.

I agree with Veetor completely. Sometimes targeted assassination is necessary, if unsavory. And I love how the player used the lizardfolk traits to amplify the storytelling. Just awesome stuff here.

@ghuttsmckenzie4269

3 жыл бұрын

The world is often gray and sometimes these things become necessary but require a gentle touch to prevent the system from turning on itself.

@liamdalemon1525

3 жыл бұрын

One thing I REALLY don't get about the guy. He tells the party that war can result in poverty and Desperate actions out of those people, yet he starts a war himself. GOOD JOB MAN! YOU HAPPY NOW?!?

@pringlelingle6827

3 жыл бұрын

@@liamdalemon1525 I think he intended a war to end the nobility.

@Shalakor

3 жыл бұрын

@@liamdalemon1525 I think the war was happening with or without him, Ora just hoped it could be his fault, that there was an objective central cause to what was the inevitable conflict between factions all itching to gain more resources and territory. Countries don't fight each other because there's a serial killer on the loose. There was no BBEG to be had, only the delusion that there must be one somewhere to be found.

It's always the rouges and paladins which result in the interesting moral conflict

@Warrior_Culture

3 жыл бұрын

meh, not really. They are just the most stereo-typically at odds with each other that people feel the need to use them as personifications of the moral spectrum. I would not be surprised if the vast majority of the stories are made up and simply used in the same sense as folk tales are to present a "moral to the story" to the audience. The vast majority of interesting moral conflicts in my own experience has been between players and NPC's created by the DM. It's far easier for the DM to have an outside perspective of player characters while the players themselves get lost in the character they THINK they've created. Sort of like irl people are often perceived differently than they perceive themselves. So it's a lot easier for the DM to take the values of PC's and create an NPC that can convincingly challenge the ideas of the party in a way that the player behind the characters can relate to.

What is lawful is not necessarily good. Sometimes in order to do the right thing rules need to be broken

@thealchemistking4063

3 жыл бұрын

“Sometimes you need to do things even if it’s against the rules and there are things you should never do even if there’s no rule against it” - *FUCKING KIRITO FROM SAO*

@JaeshaunDT

3 жыл бұрын

@@thealchemistking4063 bruh kirito said that? lol its true though

@thealchemistking4063

3 жыл бұрын

@@JaeshaunDT yeah, he did. You wouldnt expect it from an oh so often generic protagonist.

It would be cool to see their new characters come across 'ancient' texts that reference these characters.

@arthurpaixao4132

Жыл бұрын

True that! Specially if history ended up distorting past facts, as players could do nothing but to live a time of lies, seeking fragments of truth in ancient artifacts or oral cultures.

In D&D, we are constantly killing enemies in order to produce favorable outcomes.

@ArcCaravan

3 жыл бұрын

Not unlike the enemies killing for their favorable outcome.

Do you agree with Veetor? Was what he was doing justified? Was he actually doing good? Or do you agree with Ora?

@ezrafaulk3076

3 жыл бұрын

Veetor; I'm with HIM. That's all I have to say.

@extinctskellebones9791

3 жыл бұрын

Veetor because he had the most powerful argument

@oniseven3225

3 жыл бұрын

It's hard to say in Veetor's words War tells tales of many things of both hope and desperation.

@jukesdtj656

3 жыл бұрын

What Veetor did was cruel, but he was not himself cruel. I can not condone the artistic flourish he put into his kills, but I can respect a Lizardfolk from a tribe of pacifists knowingly killing a man believing that the result would be his own death. In the words of a slightly less reasonable mass murderer, the lives of the nobles he killed were "A small price to pay for salvation."

@hiester6519

3 жыл бұрын

A bit of both to be honest. I think Veetor wanted to die. Bcz the only living unjust person left was himself and those left to remember would go after him. So he created chaos to break society and then break chaos itself with his death. Veetor lied to the very end for a brighter future

Veetor was a necessary evil. Although most if not all of my characters would not align themselves with him, they would understand that in order to change the world for the better, there has to be a boogeyman to cause it. Soft words and good deeds do nothing to really cause change. Change can only be caused through someone else's pain and suffering because nobody would willingly change. Sadly, it was Veetor, one of the party, that had to be the mechanical push for that change which is why it hit so close to home. "Rest well, Veetor. Your sacrifice for your ideals will not be forgotten by this troubled soul." -Andras, the Elvin Detective of Rhinesbruk

@stephenstonge7968

3 жыл бұрын

Sun Tsu equated a person to a piece of timber; once warped only time and great pressure can undo what carelessness, such as leaving it in the rain, caused.

@datkhornedog899

3 жыл бұрын

My OC could be an ally with him, even though he was Chamberlain of Höllenwald. Just a summary of the backstory, which is long. As a young man, he killed bandits, werewolves and some vampires, then became a soldier in a call to arms. As a Ranger, primarily, he's the scout. Like a Rogue, he slits certain officers' throats (a lot) to end wars quickly. Then retirement as Colonel. Became Chamberlain of a Duchy. The family not corrupt unlike some, with more charity work than normal. Then cultist shenanigans, and Duke and Duchess are dead. Taught the heirs, twin brother and sister, about many important things while beind de facto Duke and military "father". Then leave again when heirs grew up. Reason for leaving? Heresy. Corruption. Still visit the Duchy ever now and then, and to check on their behavior. Class? Ranger (Hunter), Fighter (Critical Role Gunslinger), Paladin.

@liamdalemon1525

3 жыл бұрын

He is probably more of chaotic nuteral played right

Ora's decision making infuriated me! I was so hoping she wouldn't kill him.

@Reddotzebra

3 жыл бұрын

Not gonna lie, if my character was in the group, he'd be rolling initiative for that. Even if it meant taking on the rest of the party.

@ArcCaravan

3 жыл бұрын

Not everyone makes the right choice. Especially after finding out one of your closest companions was opposed to everything you knew and stood for.

@Kittsuera

3 жыл бұрын

yeah, should have at least taken to stand trial. even if the trial would be corrupt... it could have given just enough time to spark a jacksparrow save... or not.

@liamdalemon1525

3 жыл бұрын

It's unsatisfying to just kill him like that because he wouldn't feel anything. It would be more impactful bring him back to the close ones of his victims and show him what he had done, and let them deal with him. Also that would allow for some more meaningful "you were a good person... It won't be the same without you" kind of roleplay, just saying.

@anonymousanonymous9587

2 жыл бұрын

At least Ora showed regret

Never thought I would hear a story in which the Lizardfolk METAPHORICALLY ate the rich.

Like Fallout 4's deacon once said "There're other organizations out there. And, in time, I'm sure they're going to spoon-feed you their own patented form of bullshit. Ignore the verbage and look at what they're doing. What they're asking you to do. What sort of world they'd have you build and how they're going to pay for it."

That hits home so strongly. I am 110% on veetor's side.

The tales where a player in the party itself does something like this behind everyone’s back and everything is absolutely insane (in a wonderfully awesome roleplaying way). This is such a good example of something way more in depth beyond the “I was the enemy the whole time” twist. Such a good story. Veetor sounds like he was an amazing character.

Some Times It's the Villains that make the world a better place for the world changes to stop them.

@Warrior_Culture

3 жыл бұрын

Agree to disagree. "Change" is not inherently good or bad, so claiming change as a desirable result is, in itself, flawed reasoning. But even assuming change is for the better, it doesn't take a villain to drive humanity to better itself. Some of histories greatest people with regards to science and philosophy strove to advance humanity without having an adversary. The very goal of advancing humanity was it's own motivation. If requiring a villain is the only way to make a person "change", than that person is their own adversary.

@railbaron1

3 жыл бұрын

@@Warrior_Culture actually, I just forgot to put "Some Times" at the start. Doesn't invalidate your point, your absolutely right.

@Warrior_Culture

3 жыл бұрын

@@railbaron1 Im that case, agreed.

Keep your grey necromancers, that Lizard Folk was my kind of hero.

@dylanpino3359

3 жыл бұрын

No! Veector and The grey necromancy need to meet and become allies in some way.

Dude was a great example of Lawful evil in terms of methodology, also playing the pathology right was a nice touch with the overextending in the end storywise.

@rvpairofdicethewanderer2383

3 жыл бұрын

What's funny is that Lawful Evil and Chaotic Good are sometimes very similar if you look into it with broad insight. Both alignments aim to commit to doing acts that test the limits of laws and parties against other parties with the opposite alignment are often the best rivals.

@tomboy_kisser

3 жыл бұрын

Assassinating dozens of people isn't lawful, nor is it evil to kill as few evil people as possible to reduce as much suffering as possible in the world. By the logic that "killing sentient beings makes one an evildoer," almost every single D&D character to ever exist is automatically evil - which is an extraordinarily narrow-minded viewpoint to take, one which spits in the face of all context and critical thought. If anything, he wasn't lawful evil: he was chaotic good.

@Slashthekitsune

3 жыл бұрын

@@tomboy_kisser Assassinating for a cause, however, IS a lawful act. It is the following of a code, or law. The brutality is the evil. It is just as arguably Lawful Evil.

@shikatsu

3 жыл бұрын

@@Slashthekitsune Yep, He had a method, strict ethics about his choice of targets, and was not doing it just to be eeeevil or for giggles. But he also brutally tortured and murdered people who might have been innocent in the end of his run (Whole households and the aftermath being a thing) and in the end only cared about his personal ethical frame and end goals. as noted a chaotic good person will do what is right no matter the cost and a lawful evil person will do what is within their code or laws no matter the method.

@aharreld2340

3 жыл бұрын

@@shikatsu the good party slaughtered bandits and cultists with the same abandon, only Veetor listened to them in the end. How is that different? How is it different going through and slaughtering a whole bunch of 'monsters' because it was requested by nobility and for no other reason? The end goal of the torture and murder was to, very specifically, terrorize people who were murdering with abandon and to make it so that they were less inclined to do evil deeds. If anything I'd argue Ora was Lawful Evil (or should've suffered an alignment shift after killing Veetor). Honestly, if your good aligned character is willing to allow people to suffer and die because you might have to get your hands dirty and piss off the nobility, you're not really playing a good aligned character. Simultaneously, if your 'evil' character is murdering and killing specifically to end unnecessary deaths, improve conditions, and to allow people to lead better lives, they're not an evil character.

This has to be one of the *best* DnD stories I have ever heard. I love the entire cast and all the twists and turns, ups and downs that took place. Like... wow. I kind of wanted to cry at times whenever one of the characters got upset. Basically, just give Veetor's player some kind of story telling and acting award or something. If there truly is injustice in this world, it's not applauding this player enough for their talents.

Veetor the legend, doing what must be done. Hats off to you good sir.

Omg this game was epic. This is very complex and one hell of a thought provoker. Praise to this group and dm for being awsome.

Veetor was definitely CG/NE played absolutely perfectly. Brilliant character

@callumunga5253

3 жыл бұрын

I'm unconvinced he's not Lawful Good. Lawful since he followed a strict code to never kill the innocent, and always carefully determine guilt. Good since he believed his actions are for the greater good, and is willing to sacrifice himself for them. A lawful good character can kill a thieving bandit or rampaging monster for the greater good, so why can't a lawful-good thief who steals from the rich do the same?

@rvpairofdicethewanderer2383

3 жыл бұрын

Veetor is definitely chaotic good since he only slaughtered lawful evil people. His methods are questionable, though, even if I am aware it is just to make a clear message.

@ordinarybro1241

3 жыл бұрын

And this is why alignments are bullshit, everyone has different answer. I personally would call him VERY pragmatic sociopath.

@odg1190

3 жыл бұрын

@@callumunga5253 But he's not Lawful Good because at the end he started killing innocents. He went from burning Noble's houses to their districts. A Noble's child isn't going to be guilty of any of the things Veetor is trying to kill their parent for. The moment the demons/deities stopped providing him transportation to make his selective killings possible he broke his code for convenience sake.

@glowtail3744

Жыл бұрын

@@callumunga5253 to me lawful good is when a character fights for a noble cause but doesn't fight in a hideous way They fight for genuine change from those who abuse the people They fight to show themselves as a Ray of hope. A necessary good that must exist for balance out the evil of the world. They may not be lawful good in terms of following the laws of the world but they are lawful good in terms of following a moral compass. To help the needy and the poor. To help those who have been abused by the people in power. To help those who want to feel a sense of happiness in a cruel world.

See this, this is an epic character. Ashtoshan has nothing on the coolness, depth or complexity of Veetor. Extremely sad ending. An ignoble end to a fine man.

@ArcCaravan

3 жыл бұрын

Least he put the knife in his killer's hand, taunted them, and led the others to let themselves fade away with a whimper. The Paladin killed a dead man. The Rogue killed the spirits of heroes.

@tholgrimstonebeard5943

3 жыл бұрын

@@ArcCaravan You sound like a Psycho. There's nothing good about the end of that story. Veetor lived life to the fullest with purpose, and loved his party. Not a win for him. Not a win for them.

@ArcCaravan

3 жыл бұрын

@@tholgrimstonebeard5943 I simply enjoyed a tragic ending while viewing Veetor as having a final moral victory.

@tholgrimstonebeard5943

3 жыл бұрын

@@ArcCaravan Fair enough. Somehow, I don't think he would see it that way.

@ArcCaravan

3 жыл бұрын

@@tholgrimstonebeard5943 His dying words made me think he could accept it with grace.

This is the best D&D story I have ever heard. If this was streamed I would watch this more regularly than Critical Role, and would likely enjoy it more than any of the most epic fantasy shows and movies. This was perfection

2:10 "Out the yin yang." Aka "off balance?" 🤔😆

@jootast1k371

3 жыл бұрын

It means that they were excessive.

I absolutely loved this story. Whoever the player for Veetor was he did a legendary job playing him. Would happily have this man at my table.

This reminds me of the anime "Shield Hero", the protagonist is burdened with cleaning up the messes of what should of been his allies "doing good" in the world, ultimately becoming the real hero in the eyes of the common folk.

@joshuawall646

3 жыл бұрын

Wasn’t one of those actions made by his allies was the overthrow of a corrupt government that led to an even more corrupt government.

So, they did not even stops the war that she thinks will end by single death of the painter. Disgraceful. After all he have done and yet fail to see his POV.

@liamdalemon1525

3 жыл бұрын

Not only would keeping Veetor alive to hand to the authorities have resolved a lot of issues (hopefully) but it would have personally been way more satisfying... Also they would get paid... Not sure it mattered at that point but still

@generalgarchomp333

Жыл бұрын

​@@liamdalemon1525 It would have caused more, especially for the party since he was one of them.

@liamdalemon1525

Жыл бұрын

@@generalgarchomp333 come to think of it, if they arrested him he would probably have just teleported away again and continued his killing spree. Killing him might have been the best option

You had me at gentlemen

@Magine_

3 жыл бұрын

Same

Ah, necessary cruelty, the true meaning of chaotic good, versus manipulated righteousness, the true meaning of lawful good. I love stories like this since it can paint what is the real world, too. I, a D&D Player, will always be a Neutral (NG, LN, N, CN, NE) Character Main.

It's true that just because it's the law or what the people in charge allow it is not necessarily the right thing to do. That's what the paladin couldn't understand. That being said as awesome as Veetor's character was assassinating the people in charge usually doesn't make things better for the common folk. Everyone thinks the king a tyrant when he marches on the neighboring land, but what if he doesn't and the neighboring king marches on his land? Veetor would probably kill both kings, but then what happens when bandits and warlords take up residence now that there is no one left to stop them?

@jamestown8398

3 жыл бұрын

He wasn't killing nobles at random, just those he knew were doing terrible things. Presumably the noble who ruled justly and treated his people with dignity would be left alone while the noble who raped peasant girls as his hobby would be found in a bloody mess.

This story is *GOOD!* When looked at in the long run I have to agree with Lizard Folk. Power corrupts and people will do what they can get away with in worse if their are no consequences.

Yes! You actually did this! I read it about a month or two ago and loved it and wondered if you'd do an episode on it. Thank you so much

Veetor reminds me much of V from the movie " V for Vendetta" and my new personal hero. Long live the misunderstood, long live the Hero's we deserve yet condemn.

This gives me two ideas of writing new campaigns. Excellently told! Thank you.

Honestly couldn't have called him evil, and would have joined him. His was a far nobler quest than righteous stick up the butt paladin explaining why only their morals were the ones that mattered.

These players (minus Veetor’s) either have brainrot idiot fungus or are dedicated to playing lawful stupid characters. I’m glad the dm didn’t give them happy endings despite mucking it up, they really needed a reality check

@HereticalFunHouse

3 жыл бұрын

Lol honestly it was a mix of bad rolls and their personal choice. Everyone was like "You know I.... I don't want to be memorialized...." they were true to playing the characters tho, and also great friends irl lol.

@vaibhavbalooni5730

3 жыл бұрын

I feel like they are players with low amounts of RPG experience, although they also seem quite good at roleplaying. What I mean is the story makes me feel that they roleplayed exceptionally well and did not let the meta affect their game.

@ArcCaravan

3 жыл бұрын

Sometimes you gotta make stupid choices to stay in character.

I agree with Veetor, sometimes the paladins can lose their way. It’s very easy to have a narrow mind in a narrow field at times. But yes everyone having a terrible end is appropriate.

Applause to the player and the DM for that campaign. That was amazing.

"there must to be a better way" "there must be a better method" says the same people who do nothing, and yet, feel moral superiority

@ArcCaravan

3 жыл бұрын

It'a generally hard to feel serial killers have greater morality.

@danj9580

3 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't call "running around trying to prevent war from spilling out everywhere" nothing.

@ghuttsmckenzie4269

3 жыл бұрын

@@ArcCaravan he often killed nobility and focused on individuals who abused their power, seems like he wanted to send a message rather than sadistically enjoy murdering them.

@ArcCaravan

3 жыл бұрын

@@ghuttsmckenzie4269 A mission based serial killer is still a serial killer. Gives reason to distrust him, especially when any justification is withheld until it's too late.

@elmodelo101

3 жыл бұрын

@@danj9580 if you successfully prevent/stop a war, then I will accept, learn and apply your method. But only if you actually prevent/stop the war, if you don't, then it is a waste of time, and remember, the more time it takes, more people are going to die/suffer

"I wish I could spare them, make them see the path. Tempting as that sounds, I'll have to pass. I know what's needed for the good of my people, to save them." - Tim Pool, Will of the People, 11/2/2020. This is a line from a song that I feel applies quite well here. We all think we know what the right way to do things is. We all think we have the cure to whatever perceived injustice we chose to target, and have a nasty habit of convincing ourselves of such so powerfully that we become blind to the injustices we cause in our doing so. Ora was a dutiful soldier, born and bred to be the justicar she turned out to be, enacting the rule of law heedless of what doing so meant, or would cause, only seeing the the good that keeping the peace caused, not paying any heed to the injustices that were brought about by her own hand, and unwilling to accept it when she was forced to face it. Veetor was a little more lucid, and clear-sighted. He had a reason for each and every one of his actions and he played his hand masterfully. It's honestly admirable. So much so that it's easy to miss the issues his doing so caused. Why was the city the majority of this story took place in put in ever tightening lockdown? Because of him. Did he see the harm he was doing to people as wrong? No, like many monsters in history, he saw it as a necessary sacrifice to long term peace, one that wasn't guaranteed to be just, or stable. Two opposite extremist views on the same topic, neither blameless, nether monstrous, both seeing the same issues from different angles and coming to wildly different conclusions because of that. As such I can't pick any single side. It's pretty damn close to the political environment in the USA, honestly, which is why I feel many parts from Will of the People fits so damn well.

@firestorm165

3 жыл бұрын

Well said

@kardoxfabricanus7590

2 жыл бұрын

Oh we have a beanie fan over here 😂😆🤣

@fang4223

2 жыл бұрын

@@kardoxfabricanus7590 "Unlike you, I get my news from a credible source." **posts screenshot from Roblox newsroom RP**

@kardoxfabricanus7590

2 жыл бұрын

@@fang4223 i will agree that mainstream news is horrendous Don't take my arguments incorrectly. The establishment is unironically evil etc. Just make sure you don't fall down pipelines.

@fang4223

2 жыл бұрын

@@kardoxfabricanus7590 I look to more then just Tim and form my own opinions from a diverse range of sources, no worries. Glad it sounds like someone else does the same.

I mean. I agree with Veetor. Corruption is bad. I'd start a revolution if I could save a life.

@hiester6519

3 жыл бұрын

True but if he lived any longer he would have either died of exhaustion or become an evil warlord. Society mangles its people to it needs and it needed to be reformed. Seetor was that key. I believe that he wanted this. The only way to have a peaceful times is through reforms. There's only peace when everything is in the ground.

Damn that was heavy... I've played some Liazrdfolk before and had a great time with the role play but Veetor was astoundingly well made/played. I loved the story the entire way :)

Why can’t I ever find games like this to play?

@danielmartinontiverosvizca7325

3 жыл бұрын

I believe this is made up, it never happen

Yisus Christ, Instrumental Evil. the best kind of evil character.

@Gazing-09

3 жыл бұрын

Instrumental Evil? What is this? Something above Lawful Evil?

@NeonRahkshi

3 жыл бұрын

*Evil?*

@---tr8fx

3 жыл бұрын

Instrumental evil is when a character does evil acts, the character knows its doings are evil and do not enjoy it, the evil acts are just the only or the easiest way to get their ultimate goal, the character avoids doing further evil that does not get him towards his goal. Ozymandias from watchmen is a good example. EVIL as a TOOL with an specific purpose.

@---tr8fx

3 жыл бұрын

yes, killing people and disposing in such way their corpses to "send" a message, no matter how evil was the victim, its evil.

@aharreld2340

3 жыл бұрын

@@---tr8fx Under that logic all parties are evil.

I agree with Veetor on this. His methods are a bit excessive but given his circumstances you can't really blame him. This is going to make me think more when I play dnd since this story seems like the epiphany of the age old line. "Your actions have consequences." I freaking loved this story.

As soon as you mentioned a serial killer the TF2 spy theme started playing in my head.

Serial Killer BBEG is by itself a fantastic basis for a RPG campaign.

I think this somehow broke my moral compass.

@atomictree5000

3 жыл бұрын

Yep

This actually reminds of a dnd plot I’m attempting to come up with. I’ll a brief idea, inspired by spec ops the line and watchmen. The BBEG would be a home brew demon who’s alignment is lawful neutral (or evil based on how you view him). He has an idea for piece but knows no one would follow a monster. After decades of planning, he came up with the perfect plan of world Peace. He create chaos in villages and occasionally would burn or raze down villages. He would proclaim he was building an army to take over the world and no one would stop him. Once the party reaches his territory, they find no army or fighting force but other villagers living peace-full lives. When they reach the BBEG himself, he would start off a speech of piece can be achieved and explain that the only way this would could come together is of a mighty foe threatened the world and how he was willing to sacrifice his happiness for happiness of others. In short the BBEG is faking world domination so that the kingdoms can come together in peace.

@unwithering5313

3 жыл бұрын

Cool

We often as players see the game as black and white, yet we forget so often that there are gray areas which exist. This was great campaign which shows that at the end, you may not be the heroes you thought you were

If only we had someone with the courage to act like Veetor. What people call Justice nowadays is simply an embarrassment and a lie.

@ghuttsmckenzie4269

3 жыл бұрын

I gotta say most of the US is corrupt to the core, most people who have money can buy their way through all of their troubles or never have them to begin with. What we call justice is often sadistic and unhelpful as we focus on punishment and never focus on what happens after that.

_Forget plain old roleplay, this can be a real life commentary on how the systems we hold dear are just imperfect aspects of what we consider to be justice._ 🪔 *Also, I'm for Veetor, the dude was one of the people here with a true goal he came to on his own will, plus he died a hero to the people that mattered!* 🤩

Veetor did nothing wrong. If “heroes” turn a blind eye to the depravity of nobles and the wealthy, then they're not fit to be titled as such. The rest of the party got the ending they deserved.

@ArcCaravan

3 жыл бұрын

Society is to blame. High society.

@Gevaudan1471

3 жыл бұрын

Why didn't Veetor open their eyes to it instead?

@jorgemigueltavares6041

3 жыл бұрын

@@Gevaudan1471 except he did. He made sound arguments that explained and justified why he did all those killings. The party and Ora were just too hung up on glory and fame to see.

@Draeckon

3 жыл бұрын

@@Gevaudan1471 I would argue he did, even if it took time to sink in and ruined them emotionally. They didn't claim the glory or fame they could have, didn't seek wealth. They all vanished into obscurity, too ashamed and broken over what they did. Their eyes had been opened to the truth and the truth was too much for them to handle.

@liamdalemon1525

3 жыл бұрын

I am no expert but I don't think murder of someone who never directly caused any deaths is okay. Sure we all hate taxes and all that but it is essential for sustainability. There is no black and white here but that doesn't mean the obvious "good" people are wrong about everything

Veetor had an amazing story. Even without the classic dead parents theme, him making observations of the overlooked, taking time to understand his enemies while the others just looted and looked for the next quest made him an incredibly good character. And honestly, I tried to find anyone he reminded me of and the closest thing I could find was that Student in Moscow from Dr. Schiwago (old movie), who started out publishing dissident leaflets and eventually rose during the revolution to become an officer dreaded by his enemies for his success and by his allies for his methods. The one thing I was missing from Veetor was that one famous Fidel Castro quote. "Judge me if you want, history will absolve me"

If anyone plays LOL the beginning reminded me of Jhin

Great twist to a race that would not normally have this kind of player.

Wow that was fantastic... I can only dream of having a character like this

Veetor has that Astoshan vibe, and its great. Gotta respect the players dedication to role play if he kept this up for years.

A story fit for novelization condensed into a 25 minute youtube video. And I loved every minute of it.

If there was that much corruption then lizard wasnt wrong... but the artistry in what he did is what pushed it over the line. The world needed an assassin, not a serial killer.

@wildhunter939

3 жыл бұрын

Yes and no. In my opinion at least the artistry to the kills is what started causing some of the more positive changes, essentially letting the common folk know they had a champion and the wealthy know that they were being hunted, assassinations in high politics at least in the setting of dnd would seem common place between political rivals and enemy kingdoms the only thing that would catch attention for a regular assassination would just be that they increased. Leaving a calling card let the nobility and commoners know what to expect from this one and judging by some of the art described exactly why it was happening.

@bradbradfordson9158

3 жыл бұрын

@@wildhunter939 yeahbut, a calling card can be as simple as a small card with a skull stamped on it. He didnt need to strew their guts across whole ass rooms . That's what got him killed really. he could've been accepted by his party much better and not been killed when he still had so much work to do.

I agree with veetor the blood of tyrants must happen for a peaceful kingdom.

@rgfs8881

3 жыл бұрын

And everyone agrees with that, expecially when there's a fancy revolution cheering on for your every deed, because hey, we like to raid and loot too.

@liamdalemon1525

3 жыл бұрын

Just think of what would happen if society didn't have any politics for a minute.

I always love the hidden motives and actions dms help players take to put them in a story

One of my favorite stories, I keep coming back to hear this, reminds me of someone. Thanks for sharing.

Dang... this guy ... I have no words. Throw this guy in a party with the grey necromancer. I can't even place his alignment. At best, I can guess True Neutral.

my only problem is how did the party not know? "17 on that single attack" "32 damage on that single attack" Noone thought "that must be sneak attack"?

@cesargeney5268

3 жыл бұрын

He probably didnt called them or used the dm discretion to aply them

@HereticalFunHouse

3 жыл бұрын

As Cesar said, it was done in secret with the DM.

@veqis

3 жыл бұрын

Because he didn't kill

I refuse to belive that I am the only one who want's this exact campaign to be an animated series

Veetor: we might need a couple hundred of them today