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@jolanas.5426

2 жыл бұрын

I loved the video, thank you! I think I've been duped by Wickham as well upon my first reading in my teenage years. :) Please, do an analysis of Frank Churchill's character and behaviour. :)

@Woo94ster

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for these wonderful videos. I’ve often wondered at Elizabeth’s continued embarrassment and anxiety towards the end of the novel, even after things are settled between her and Darcy, when she knows herself to be happy rather than feeling happy. There’s no similar anxiety with Jane’s engagement, and Jane might also have felt overwhelmed by a dramatic reversal. Elizabeth doesn’t seem like one who would mind so much about what others think of Darcy. Perhaps this is JA going for realism rather than cliche? It would be great if you can shed any light on this.

@melaniesng4713

2 жыл бұрын

I wish i can read like you. Love your reading. 👍👍👍

@sarahpacheco1637

2 жыл бұрын

@@jolanas.5426 mm m

@asiabryant207

Жыл бұрын

9⁹

Part of the appeal of PaP to me is how Lizzie isn't dumb, nor is she naive, yet she is shown being manipulated by Wickham. Because you don't have to be dumb or innocent to fall for the lies of a manipulator, and that i think is such a powerful warning to keep an eye out for any red flags

@seekingmyself5770

Жыл бұрын

Yes, it's a wonderful tool for any age, but especially young girls (and boys) who don't have any experience with such people. A lot of us older readers have unfortunately learnt through experience, and can spot a Wickham a mile away, but I still remember being twenty, intelligent, and yet also believing people I gave too much credit to, when part of me, I believe, really knew I shouldn't. Lizzy's not listening to the little inner voice, though; she's listening to her bruised ego and vanity, and her confirmation bias makes her reckless. That's a good lesson as well. She should've been seeing the red flags coming from herself, as Wickham was only reflecting everything she said to him.

@pamigreenway

Жыл бұрын

That's the enigma of a narcissist at work and just shows that it's certainly not new to the human condition.

@julijakeit

Жыл бұрын

Lizzy was insulted by Mr Darcy, though he probably did not expect her to overhear his intimate remark about her to Mr Bingley, so she was prejudiced to dislike Mr Darcy and take Mr Wikham's side because he hated Mr Darcy.

@lissie3669

Жыл бұрын

No, you don’t have to be dumb to be manipulated, but idk I think it’s both inaccurate and a bit sterile to sacrifice the interpretation that Lizzie was flawed and had grown for the validation of a view that is trendy right now. It’s absolutely true what you say about people who are victims of manipulation, I just don’t think we need to inject that view where it’s not an accurate description. There are so many stories already out there that are begging to be read that actually showcase what you’re describing.

@valkyriesardo278

Жыл бұрын

She is not dumb or naive but she is lacking in self-awareness. She has a refined set of ethics but fails to notice contradictions within herself or in others. There is a quote from Ayn Rand, "Whenever you think that you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong." As a ready example, there is general consensus among the Bennett women that Bingley is an amiable cupcake while Darcy is a rude snob. The two men are friends. Nobody seems to observe that two such polar opposites could not find a common ground. Friendship requires some degree of like-minded compatability. Therefore either Bingley is not the sweetie pie that he seems or Darcy is not such a bad egg. So which premise is false? Jane spends more time with Bingley, but we cannot rely on her opinion for she sees good in everyone. Wickham slandered Darcy early on, but that only reinforces Lizzie's first impression. She is eager to believe it for Darcy had insulted her. She does not observe that Wickham's slander is beneath the dignity of a gentleman. Nobody has a good word to say about Darcy until we meet his housekeeper at Pemberly. Prior to that, all Elizabeth had to go on was Darcy's letter explaining his history with Wickham and his intervention between Bingley and Jane. The letter throws Elizabeth into a quandry because she does not want to believe any of it, but her capacity to reason proves it true.

This whole situation with Wickham shows how Bennet girls were really on their own and badly needed the supervision and advise of a reasonable grown up person. Mrs Gardiner alghtough she was pleased with Wickham and found him nice instantly questioned Lizzie's assuredness in his words and the degree of Wickham's openness to a stranger.

I like how, immediately after he bad-mouths Darcy, he says, "I can never expose him." DUDE, you JUST DID!

@aikendrum2908

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly! Elizabeth says (referring to Darcy) “He deserves to be publicly disgraced” and Wickham replies “Sometime or other he will be, but it shall not be by me. Till I can forget his father, I can never defy or expose him.” Lizzy can feel justly idiotic later on if she remembers him saying this, and it should definitely set off alarm bells in the reader.

@--enyo--

Жыл бұрын

Like all those people who claim to be cancelled… While broadcasting on a huge platform to millions of people.

@NemisCassander

5 ай бұрын

Again, masterful psychological verisimilitude. People do not often apply rules or standards to themselves, particularly in the same way as they do to others. Elizabeth doesn't react to this at the time because, for one, Wickham is responding to her point about disgrace (which this doesn't technically qualify as); and for two, she doesn't include herself in the category of 'if people in this category know about Darcy, he is exposed.' In the same way, the is generally expecting some dramatic irony in any story they read or see; we expect to know more than the characters. Austen uses that expectation against the reader to deceive us in the same way as Elizabeth, because obviously Wickham is telling the about this so that we can understand Darcy's character from an outside perspective, and thus we fall into the same trap. Not only is this Austen playing at multiple levels, it creates a stronger bond to Elizabeth in her readers, as anyone who reacts the same way as Elizabeth to Darcy's letter will feel closer to her.

When Elizabeth finally meets Lady Catherine, she sees for herself that she is indeed arrogant and conceited, just as Wickham had told her. This then reinforces in her mind the veracity of Wickham's comments about Darcy and Georgiana. If Wickham is able to assess Lady Catherine's character so accurately, then surely he must also be right in his opinions of the others!

@wendyfleming-smith369

2 жыл бұрын

Real manipulators tell the truth when it suits their purpose - mostly to seem trustworthy so that the untruths seem plausible. Lies only work when they are spice on the main dish of reality. Only really practised manipulators do this as a practised art.

@roseculmer6708

Жыл бұрын

This is a great point.

@NemisCassander

5 ай бұрын

Yes, very much so, and this along with Elizabeth's own words when reading Darcy's letter is another technique that Wickham uses to deceive Elizabeth: the very old trick of lying as little as possible. Wickham lied at material points. He didn't say, e.g., that Darcy's father hated him.

I felt that Lizzie seemed to “fill in the blanks” in the conversation - Wickham, like you say, is very guarded. He lets her come to her own conclusions and simply reinforces them as she speaks. It’s an easy going form of manipulation (which he may very well have used on Lydia as well. He seems indifferent to her after they’re married, but she believes herself to be in love, very happy, etc. She’s filling in the pieces that he’s only confirmed).

@rachelport3723

2 жыл бұрын

Do you think he manipulated Lydia the same way? I don't think she needed to be manipulated, she's really rather low-hanging fruit. He would have promised marriage, but I don't think it was hard to persuade her to live together first. Now Georgianna is another story. She would have required a good deal of manipulation, which would have taken the form of playing on old affection. On the other hand, he would have married her to get control of her money.

@twinklestarvalerie

2 жыл бұрын

do you think that he knew that Elizabeth and Darcy had a thing and that Darcy would jump to the rescue? Like you said, Lydia was low hanging fruit and kind of an odd choice. There wasn’t a lot of money behind choosing her. Or was he never going to be honorable until forced by Darcy because he would pay? I’d love to learn more about that inner storyline of why he would choose Lydia.

@rachelport3723

2 жыл бұрын

I don't think Wickham ever intended to marry Lydia. When Darcy asked him why he didn't just marry her, he said he still hoped to make his fortune by marriage. My answer to "why did Wickham run away with Lydia" is "because she was there." There wasn't much intention on his part. I don't think Elizabeth and Darcy "had a thing" before he left Meryton. Elizabeth herself didn't know - the militia left soon after her return from Kent, where she had just learned the truth about Darcy and Wickham, and she certainly didn't love Darcy then, or think he still loved her. He might have noticed Darcy's interest in Elizabeth, but they were never in company together so he never had a chance to observe them together. Charlotte suspects Darcy's feelings in Kent, but even she doubts because he is so silent.

@katzw

2 жыл бұрын

@@rachelport3723 My guess is that Lydia and Georgiana were persuaded in much the same way. With Elizabeth, Wickham encouraged her opinions without a lot of direct confirmation. A shy girl like Georgiana could be flattered into assumptions in much the same way, while Lydia is very outgoing and already assumes herself to be right in any circumstance (low hanging fruit indeed!).

@meacadwell

Жыл бұрын

@@katzw Georgiana probably viewed Wickham as a 'safe' person because she'd known him her entire life. And, it being the era it was and she being a female away at finishing schoo,l meant Darcy wouldn't have discussed with her his discovery of Wickham getting hot and heavy with a woman...women at that time were kept in the dark about things. Lydia was definitely the pusher of the 'relationship' and, since she didn't care a fig about propriety, had no problems moving in with him. Wickham, knowing she had no money, just wanted to take his pleasure from her (since she was shoving her availability in his face) and that was it. He had no plans on marrying her and didn't care if he ruined her reputation...because that's the kind of manipulating narcisstic abuser he is.

The way Austen has Wickham deceive both Lizzie and the reader at first reading - while at the same time giving clear hints that his actions are the opposite of his words - is just brilliant. We're taken in because, like Lizzie, we want to believe ourselves to be more perceptive and clever than the rest of the Meryton company. We want to identify with Lizzie - the brilliant and lively heroine - and so we fall for the same trap as she did. Another great clip!

It's embarrassing. But until you hit a certain age, manipulative behavior like that slips right past you. Lizzie didn't stop to wonder why Wickham bad-mouths Darcy to a stranger.

I first read P&P when I was 16, and it was the first novel I read for my own amusement. I remember thinking that Wickham was being too 'honest' about his situation with a stranger. I, like Lizzy, just wanted to confirm my bias on Mr. Darcy. I started disliking Wickham because of his actions later in the novel (i.e. his treatment of Miss King), but I didn't think he was lying about Mr. Darcy's treatment of him. The letter that Mr. Darcy writes was a real eye-opener for me, and it has helped me when encountering real life Wickhams. I'm 21 now and the Wickhams will only get more tricky to detect, but it's still fun realizing how Austen's fictional character is so real. Thank you for this Analysis, Dr. Cox! I can't believe I fell for Wicham's 'honesty' so easily! I'm both laughing at and slightly embarrassed by my original thoughts on him. My only comfort is that I didn't marry him like Lydia did. Hahaha

@EmoBearRights

2 жыл бұрын

Is it me or did anyone else think Frozen did a similar thing in showing you that sometimes that bad guys intially seem so nice.

@EH23831

2 жыл бұрын

I think Lizzie and we young women readers are primed to believe him because he’s handsome… 😁

@EmoBearRights

2 жыл бұрын

@@EH23831 I think that's true but the same thing is true for the guys about pretty women.

@EH23831

2 жыл бұрын

@@EmoBearRights true dat! ☺️

@donsharpe5786

2 жыл бұрын

I was also 16 when I first read P & P and it has remained a favourite ever since.

Wickham is actually super conniving in his conversation with Lizzie. It almost comes across like cold-reading in a way, and is super obvious in retrospect. He probes gently, gathering clues from her reactions before deciding to drop his tale of woe. If he'd thought, after asking, she had a good opinion of Darcy, he wouldn't have told her that story. And, if he'd found out that people in general thought well of Darcy, he probably would have absconded from the regiment well before he actually did. His fear of meeting Darcy in a public place makes it obvious that he doesn't want the true facts of the case coming out. (And the fact that he thinks Darcy might actually call out his bullshit shows that he doesn't know Darcy nearly as well as he thinks he does, imo. He thinks Darcy only cares about his own pride; it never occurs to him that Darcy will protect his sister at all costs and that means keeping quiet.)

@peccantis

2 жыл бұрын

I suspect, had Lizzie given him reason to think she had any fondness for Darcy, Wickham would have gone for the good old "oh I would NEVER want to tell you something that might sour your opinion of such a good friend."

@Katherine_The_Okay

2 жыл бұрын

​ @peccantis He probably would have, unless he was convinced of Lizzie already being very well-disposed towards him or that being the general attitude. He was many things, but probably not stupid enough to trash-talk Darcy to people he didn't firmly believe would buy it. But if there'd been a slight fondness or "he seems nice enough" attitude, he probably would have gone full speed ahead while, as you said, making a show of reluctance.

@worldinperson

3 ай бұрын

​@@Katherine_The_Okay Wickham never tried to trashtalk Darcy in front of the Bingleys because he knew that they knew Darcy too well. But he might tell his story to a person that likes Darcy but also admits to not know him well.

I always feel super dumb that I didn’t initially notice how sus it was for this random guy to be telling Lizzie some of his most personal/emotional experiences but I guess I was just as thirsty as Lizzie for info 🙄

Lizzie's acceptance of all Wickham has to say, reinforcing her own poor opinion of Darcy, always reminds me to be willing to reassess my own opinions. 😉😉

Wickham's conversation with Elizabeth reminds me of when I did something bad in childhood and I knew I would be punished (justifiably) but the news had not reached my parents yet. Id go home and "get ahead" of the story and tell them my version which was mostly and admittedly the spin that put my actions in the best light. Then even if they heard about my misbehavior from another source, my version was still the first and strongest one. Punishment might still be delivered but usually not as strong as it could have been.

Their conversation reminds me of when I’ve talked to really nice very pleasant people I’ve just met and half way through it I’ve realized that for some reason I’ve told them a lot of things I shouldn’t and without knowing how that happened.

Wickham kept saying that he had too great a respect for Old Mr. Darcy to speak out against the son, yet he spoke out against Mr. Darcy at every opportunity. Lizzie didn't pick up on that.

By the time I got around to reading Pride and Prejudice, I already knew enough of the characters to know that Darcy is misunderstood and becomes the main love interest. So when I first read Wickham's account I was already reading it with a critical eye. Listening to this kinda makes me wish that I could have read it with no foreknowledge of the characters and wonder if I would have been successfully mislead as a reader, and gone through that journey with Elizabeth.

I enjoyed this very much and found myself laughing at how rude Wickham is and how Lizzie lets him get away with it. She really drops the ball here! I do think if she didn't find him attractive then she would be less likely to believe him, plus she is more than happy to find reason to dislike Darcy. And poor Georgiana! Wickham is an absolute snake. Your point on how if he hates to "speak ill of a Darcy" is ridiculous because the alternative is to say nothing. It's the Regency equivalent of "I hate to say this, but..."

@patriciaseyfferle1427

Жыл бұрын

Or of "bless her heart," as in "Georgiana, bless her heart, is proud, too, just like her brother." I don't know if that's an expression limited to the Midwest and South in the US, but it's definitely one of those expressions meant to excuse gossip with care and concern. I grew up on the West Coast and I never heard it there, but started hearing it as an adult in the Midwest.

My mom was watching the BBC series before I even gained consciousness so I'd never had a chance to be surprised by Wickham, but I've had an excellent chance to be impacted by the characters and even watch my perceptions of them grow as I did. Wickham was a great example early on of how friendly people aren't always "good" people, and your analysis is just an amazing example of how Austin's writing was both complex and yet understandable enough that it continues to teach and have something to offer for all ages and in every era.

As best I can remember, I was willing to let Lizzie's impressions of Wickham color my own, since I had already found her clever and perceptive. I would come to learn that this didn't apply to anything to do with Darcy: her emotional conflict about Darcy clouded her judgment wherever he was concerned. I liked Lizzie too much to think she could be so wrong! (I learned my lesson by the time I met Emma Woodhouse, who I quickly deduced was in almost every opinion 180 degrees off target.) Another thing that helps Wickham get around people is his appearance. He is a good looking fellow with a fair countenance and a noble bearing that many other men admired and many women (including Lizzie) found attractive. Austen never forgets the effect beauty can have on people. Especially when we are young, I think, we want to believe those we find beautiful are also good, and so we willingly let ourselves be deceived -- I know I did!

@londongael

2 жыл бұрын

Perceptive observation on the effect of good looks. One of the things I find very distorting in film and television adaptations of Austen's novels is that they usually make characters like Mr Wickham, Mr Elliot and even sometimes Mr Willoughby slightly less good looking (by "Hollywood standards", I mean) than the hero, when, in fact, they should probably be more handsome. I often want to swap the actors in these roles (imagine Colin Firth as Mr Wickham, or Hugh Grant as Mr Willoughby - I'm sure they'd be excellent!). No doubt viewers would find it confusing - we are all so used to the idea that external beauty = inner goodness in the visual media - but that might be part of a more authentic experience of what the novel is saying about attractiveness. Similarly, it is clear in the novel that Jane is the beauty of the Bennet family, not Lizzy, but somehow, Lizzy's looks usually steal the show.

@EH23831

2 жыл бұрын

That’s what I was thinking! He’s obviously a master manipulator, but Lizzie (and us) were primed to believe him because she is attracted to him (and Lizzie perceives he is attracted to her too)

@alixaugustine9599

2 жыл бұрын

@@londongael We clearly have different opinions of Greg Wise!! So handsome - and enough so to end up married to Emma Thompson!

@janetsmith8566

2 жыл бұрын

You said this so much better than I did!!

@janetsmith8566

2 жыл бұрын

@@londongael I’m so glad someone else thinks this! I’ve always noticed this too - that films cast the best looking characters in the wrong places and it goes against the story! Yes I think Wickham definitely should have been the most gorgeous thing you ever saw in your life and completely irresistible… Until you get to know him well of course…

Wickham is a bit of a narcissist. As you said, he reflects Lizzie's best traits back at her, and catches on quickly to her biases, as well as her desire to be "not like other girls", a common if cringe-inducing trope. I think he also plays on something you haven't mentioned. Wickham is adept with the shorthand symbolism of surface appearances and uses them to his advantage. He is a good-looking, outgoing man of gentlemanly demeanor and uses it ruthlessly to scam people all the time. He knows his attractions. Clearly, he knows how to make others feel attractive as well. He acts as if he is confessing the truth to Lizzy in spite of himself, because he recognizes her perception. That is very flattering in a way keyed exactly to her pride in herself. He flatters her indirectly in a way that blinds her to his impropriety because it is a result, ostensibly, of her better qualities. Edit: Had to add that his tale of woe kinda plays out like the formula to the beginning of a contemporary romance novel in some ways, where the handsome, deserving youth is denied his well-earned birth-right by a grasping, malicious, prideful, and jealous person of power. This plays into the way Wickham uses familiar, identifiable symbols as a shorthand to build his own character for others. He plays into a familiar trope that, as he aligns himself with the heroic, victimized youth, adds illusory depth and meaning to how people interpret him in the moment.

@di3486

2 жыл бұрын

A Lot, i would say and a malignant one!

@TheNicolevertone

2 жыл бұрын

@@di3486 Definitely!

@ladidaohoh3168

Ай бұрын

Wickham is a complete Narcissist, that’s why he actually thinks Darcy might expose his character, because he has absolutely no idea what it is like to care about someone else more than yourself, it doesn’t even occur to him, that Darcy would never expose him, because exposing him would expose his sister, which he would never do, but this idea is completely a foreign concept to Wickham.

I used to wonder why Mr. Wickham was so partial to Lizzie Bennet given that she has a small fortune and this video cleared it up. He was never partial, never intended to be partial or to gain Lizzie’s affections. He only saw her as an easy way to gather information and poison the water regarding Mr. Darcy, so to help secure his position in that society where he could pick girls as he pleased, and he only really picked one girl in Meriton (Mary King) which is consistent to his character. I don’t think Mr. Wickham has ever thought of Lydia while he was in the neighborhood.

@londongael

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Lizzy only thinks he admires her, just as Emma thinks that Frank Churchhill (now, there's a great subject for a video!) admires her. As for poor Lydia, she simply threw herself at Mr Wickham just for the lols (I don't think she really cares about him at all), and he took her along to keep her quiet and because, well, why not?

@mariateresam3206

2 жыл бұрын

@@londongael I think Lydia probably wanted Mr. Wickham to like her so she can feel superior to her older sister Lizzie, I do think she’s very vain and shallow.

@AuntLoopy123

2 жыл бұрын

I think you're right. He likes her well enough, and wants her friendship, when he's been exposed and married to Lyida, but that may just be because he doesn't want to hear her put him down. But at first, he's looking for a convenient gossip to spread HIS STORY around, before Darcy can spread his own truth. And it's agreeable to flirt with a pretty woman, until he finds his fortune-target.

Another good analysis. Oddly enough, my thoughts went on to Mr. Darcy and his experiences growing up with Mr. Wickham. I think he experienced a lot of the kind of manipulation mentioned in the comments of No Comment and Anne Cook. Mr. Wickham attempts to manipulate everyone and he has been doing it all his life. Young Fitzwilliam must have often been frustrated by seeing what was going on and being unable to convince anyone of what he saw. I bet he was often told, "You're just jealous," or something like that.

@AuntLoopy123

2 жыл бұрын

Oh, yeah. They played together as boys, so he probably fell for it, at first, but by university? Oh, yeah! I'm sure he got a GOOD look at him then.

@dorothywillis1

2 жыл бұрын

@@AuntLoopy123 And then, in spite of it all, he entrusted the care of his sister to a woman who was a "friend" of Wickham's! I'm sure Darcy had hours and hours of agony reproaching himself for not keeping Georgiana with him. I have sometimes wondered why Georgiana is not included in the Bingley/Darcy house party. Of course she is not "out," but I'm sure the Bingley sisters would love to have her in the household. (wink wink)

@evelynvongizycki1017

2 жыл бұрын

@@dorothywillis1 I haven’t read the book in a while but am I wrong in thinking he didn’t know how close they were as friends? Possibly part of his pride and thinking that things couldn’t possibly get that far?

@dorothywillis1

2 жыл бұрын

@@evelynvongizycki1017 Whether you mean Mr. Wickham and Mrs. Younge, or whether you mean Mr. Wickham and Georgiana Darcy, you are probably correct that Mr. Darcy underestimated the connection between the pair. Like all big brothers, he probably thought of his sister as still a child and was completely blindsided when Georgiana confessed to him the elopement plans. As for Mrs. Younge, I have often wondered who recommended her to Mr. Darcy. Lady Catherine de Bourgh? She seems to recommend people without knowing much about them. It seems to be pure chance that Miss Pope is a "treasure" to Lady Metcalf.

@evelynvongizycki1017

2 жыл бұрын

@@dorothywillis1 I meant I couldn’t remember if Mrs. Young was a friend of Mr. Wickham’s? I thought that he found out later on that they were friends and I can’t remember who recommended him to Mrs. Young. And like I said in terms of like his pride Mr. Darcy couldn’t not think that anything that untoward like an elopement could happen with his sister. He couldn’t even fathom that Mr. Wickham would dare to disrespect him and his sister in that way.

A feature of Jane Austen's novels is their moral structure. Although Wickham manipulates Elizabeth Bennet into listening sympathetically (or even avidly) to his hard luck story about how badly Darcy allegedly treated him, as I see it he failed in the second half of what he was hoping to achieve. He must have sized up the Bennet family, consisting of 5 young girls and a foolish mother, with lots of friends and acquaintances in the Meriton area, and assumed that if he could get one of the girls to believe his tale of woe then he could rely on it being passed on throughout the neighbourhood, putting him in a good light while explaining Darcy's cold manner towards him. This, of course, didn't happen. Nineteenth century novels have to be understood in the light of Christian teaching and morality. Jane Austen, daughter of a clergyman and committed Christian herself, knew perfectly well that to pass on detrimental second hand gossip was (and is still) a serious sin in Christian teaching. It is called the sin of detraction. There was no real 'sin' in Elizabeth listening to what Wickham wanted to tell her, but without knowing the truth of the matter she had to keep it to herself. Throwing it at Darcy in anger after his impolite proposal of marriage was not technically a sin, as the one thing she could do was check the truth of Wickham's allegation with the subject of it. Elizabeth emerges from the encounter with Wickham 'without a stain on her character,' exactly as Austen intended. Darcy could not have loved her if she hadn't.

@glendodds3824

2 жыл бұрын

Hi. I enjoyed your comment.

@marycrawford1594

2 жыл бұрын

@@glendodds3824 Thank you.

I can't remember if I reacted to Wickham's impropriety the first time I read P&P - I'd bet good money that I didn't, what with being just ten years old and all - but these days I'm immediately suspicious if someone is overly free with severe criticisms of others. If someone's very quick to speak ill of others, they're usually not to be immediately trusted. I find that to be a pretty good rule of thumb both in fiction and in my own interactions with actual people. It's one thing to overshare their own business- I'm often quite guilty of that myself - but it's a pretty big red flag if that oversharing takes the form of harming someone else's reputation. Especially when that's the first thing they talk about to a complete stranger they met five minutes ago. (There are exceptions to every rule, of course, and sometimes it's actually quite proper to warn people about someone from the very start, but that's rarely the case in this type of novel)

I know this is from the 90s film and not exactly canon, but did anyone appreciate the subtle elation on the actor's face when he realised that he had someone as intelligent as Elizabeth snowed? And his caution in choosing whether to manipulate her or not?

@melanie62954

2 жыл бұрын

For sure. His delivery of "Are you much acquainted with Mr. Darcy" definitely betrays the fact that he's going fishing, too.

@dorothywillis1

2 жыл бұрын

The actor did a great job with the part!

@janetsmith8566

2 жыл бұрын

Yes! Adrian Lucas is a good actor! But he was still way too old to play Wickham however

@alixaugustine9599

2 жыл бұрын

@@janetsmith8566 and not nearly as dashing as he needed to be.

@dorothywillis1

2 жыл бұрын

@@janetsmith8566 The only defense I can offer is that I didn't notice it until you mentioned it! I was absorbed in what was going on and never thought of his age. After all, most, if not all, the actors are older than the characters they portray.

Excellent close reading. One wonders how Austen achieved such skill in writing-such careful observation of manipulative behavior and remarkable ability to nuance it in a character. One wants to credit Elizabeth Bennett with more attention given her good sense but, after all, she is only 20. Enjoyable!

@martinhahn1390

2 жыл бұрын

Jane Austen must have observed her temporaries very distinctly. I wonder what she would have written about us. I am also very impressed about her insights in human psychology.

@worldinperson

3 ай бұрын

Lizzie's age doesn't mean much, Wickham had all of Meryton fooled along with a lot of older people.

It's also very interesting that every time someone comments on Wickham being "good" or "virtuous" it is always about his countenance or that he "looks like" he is a good person (vs Darcy who "looks like" a disagreeable person). Even Lizzy herself comments on him having the countenance of a nice person, and even almost says to Wickham himself that someone with his good looks cannot be a bad person: Chapter 16 p. 81, while in the conversation analyzed in this video, Lizzy thinks to herself mid speech to Wickham: "A young man too, like you, whose very countenance may vouch for you being amiable" I believe even Jane at some point professes a similar opinion about Wickham and his looks. Now obviously Wickham's word manipulation is what principally dupes Lizzy, but it's interesting how Austen is throwing out those hints to the reader (Wickham is actually not amiable, only his looks and manners are) and how Wickham's good countenance also acts as a confirmation to Lizzy for her biases

@katehurstfamilyhistory

2 жыл бұрын

One interesting thing that came to my mind is that, by the time Wickham is introduced, Lizzy has already been established as someone who is sensible (compared to her mother and younger sisters), capable of not throwing insults at people (as Mrs. Bennet does; when visiting Jane during her illness at Netherfield, she arrives as a visitor and manages to make critical remarks about Darcy, her host's best friend!) and generally able to behave herself in public. She considers herself to be a good judge of character, and (by the time Wickham turns up) we start to see that Lizzy has got the measure of Caroline Bingley's false friendship towards Jane. Not long afterwards, Lizzy rejects Mr. Collins' proposal, on the grounds that they wouldn't make each other happy - a daring step to take, but still a response that shows that she has considered Mr. Collins as an option since they met and realised they aren't a good match. So, up until the point where Wickham starts to tell his story, Lizzy has made some very accurate character assessments about the people she knows - the only one that has tripped her up is her stubborn belief that Darcy is aloof and snobbish . . . of course, Wickham picks up on this very quickly and when he chooses to share his "sob story" with Lizzy, she is completely taken in, probably because of four things - she already dislikes Darcy, she also thinks she is a good judge of character, she takes Wickham's history with the Darcy family on face value (thinking that someone who has known Darcy all his life will know him better than anyone) . . . and maybe also because she is flattered that Wickham is choosing to share his story with her, someone who believes they are good at judging a person's true character. (Which just shows you how cunning Wickham is; he'd never have shared the story with Lydia or Kitty because they wouldn't stay still long enough to listen, Jane wouldn't believe that Darcy - or anyone - could be so malicious, and Mary probably wouldn't approve of him gossiping about Darcy. So Lizzy is the only Bennet sister he can "confide" in. He is definitely clever that way!)

@debbiericker8223

2 жыл бұрын

@@katehurstfamilyhistory Absolutely.

@londongael

2 жыл бұрын

@@katehurstfamilyhistory Like it! Lydia or Kitty would have blabbed Wickham's story all over Meryton, which is definitely not what he wants, because of the risk of its getting back to Darcy's ears. He knows Lizzy will be discreet. (Edited to put in vital "not"!)

@ElizabethJones-pv3sj

2 жыл бұрын

@@londongael Lizzy realises after reading the letter that he doesn't share his story more widely until _after_ Darcy & Bingley have left Netherfield.

I totally agree on Austen's ability to build characters that she explores through the narrative believably. I'm glad I"m not the only one as everyone else I talk too seems to just dismiss her as a "romance writer" when she accutually explores the flaws of the society of the landed gentry and human nature.

@AuntLoopy123

2 жыл бұрын

I just about lost it on my massage therapist when he 1) told me to relax, and 2) disparaged Jane Austen as a failure as a writer because, "She never had sex, so she can't write about love. She knows nothing about it." Excuse me? She wasn't writing about SEX. She was writing about the marriage mart, which she witnessed every day for decades. He even told me, "She had been in love, herself, but the marriage fell through. I saw it in a movie about her!" But "She never had sex, so she can't write about love and knows nothing about it." No. She might make an awful Harlequin writer, but she was perfect for what she wrote: Scathing commentary on the marriage market.

@mcmurtryfan

2 жыл бұрын

@@AuntLoopy123 Hah! Austen, a failure as a writer? What a buffoon.

@shimmeringchimps3842

2 жыл бұрын

@@AuntLoopy123 Yikes. Time for a new massage therapist!

Great breakdown! Narcissists and emotional manipulation seems to be a top topic of late, and Austin wrote it SO well.

@di3486

2 жыл бұрын

She was an expert psychologist before psychology even existed!! She wrote at least one narcissistic character in every novel, in every style. Wickham being more malevolent and subtle than Henry Crawford for example, that was more overt.

@sulaganabiswas

7 ай бұрын

Austen

I thought the age-difference in women and men was a bit unfair. When Elizabeth is about 20, she is supposed to look for a husband among people who are several years older than her, and who have much more experience with people. It must have been a night-mare for "ladies" to flirt - be too choosy, and never get married, be too naive, and you could end up in a horrible marriage. And who isn't naive at 20? Especially if you have no work-exerience, have mostly been taught in our own home, and are only friends with the neighbours. No wonder future husbands were expected to ask for the girl's fathers permission. I think Elisabeth is a really good judge of character, but she doesn't stand a chance against Wickham.

The title of the novel was originally going to be called _First Impressions._ And Elizabeth's first impression of Darcy drives her "prejudice" of him and "pride" of not believing the truth, until the letter Darcy writes her after she rejects his proposal. This includes moments of filling in blanks with her own opinions of Darcy and Wickham.

Wickham was far too happy to badmouth Darcy within the community unprompted, that should always make you listen up to how sincere those stories are.

For me I mainly saw the inconsistency. Mr Wickham saying he would not disparage Mr Darcy because he loved his father and then doing just that. Mr Wickham saying that Mr Darcy would not scare him away from the ball and then being scared away. It just gave me the impression he wasn't being entirely honest. And then his courting of Miss King when she came into money showing his fortune hunting tendencies.

Yet another brilliant explication from Dr. Cox. Dr. Cox's analysis of Wickham reminds me of her brilliant explication of Colonel Wallace in Austen's Persuasion ("Who exactly is Colonel Wallace and what exactly did he say?"). Like Wallace, Wickham parlays modest credibility into massive influence (so we can credit Austen with the first articulation of "influencers"), a man who persuades and manipulates a whole population so to speak. Wickham is an early and villainous example of wokeness -- claiming to be the victim while victimizing others. How modern of Austen!

Confirmation bias! It's really brilliant. And I always thought it was interesting that Wickham is gambling on this, that Darcy would never divulge this (because it's very personal, scandalous and he is a gentleman). Great video.

I first read P&P when I was in High School (I think I was 15), and I must admit, I was completely sucked in by Wickham. I was so surprised by how much I loved Lizzie right from the start that I saw everything through her eyes, with no reservations. She & I were both blind-sded by Mr. W!

2 thoughts: (1) Miss Bingley says that Wickham “goes around” saying he was mistreated by Darcy. It sounds like this was his stock method of garnering sympathy-not just from Lizzie, but from others. (2) I wonder if Austen implies that Darcy being “discovered” to be proud by Meryton society half way through the evening was maybe Elizabeth’s discovery that Darcy was proud when she was slighted by Darcy. Elizabeth made it seem funny, even to herself, but she was the person telling everyone around her about him slighting her. It never seemed like anyone disliked him quite as much as Elizabeth did, except for maybe on occasion her mother who wouldn’t have liked hearing that her daughter was slighted and whose opinion would change immediately when hearing Darcy was to be her son-in-law. Charlotte, Jane, and Mr.Bennett comment on how much they know Lizzie dislikes Darcy but they never seem to echo her opinion with their own. When Austen describes Meryton’s reaction to Darcy, is this really just Lizzie’s reaction and is Lizzie deceiving herself about Meryton’s reaction in general? Thinking that her opinion must be everyone’s opinion of him? Telling Wickham Darcy isn’t at all liked in Meryton; however, Wickham likely wasn’t hearing the same from everyone. It seems to me like Austen might be hinting that Meryton’s and Lizxie’s opinions are separate, but that Lizzie deceives herself into thinking they are the same. After they are engaged there seems to be no difficulty except to convince everyone that she likes Darcy instead of hates him.

@tesssmith5548

2 жыл бұрын

Oh, this is so interesting! I've never thought of it this way! It makes me want to reread the book right away to look for that...

@CrimsonAlice

2 жыл бұрын

The only thing that would make me disagree, is that the first ball where darcy and lizzy meet, we get examples of him snubbing a woman making conversation, not dancing or trying to socialize. And we do see austen often pointing out the "general populace" in its absurdity. When wickams true nature comes out, all of meryton suddenly all secretly knew he was a cad, even though they also say every tradesmen was swindled and daughters misused, so its not surprising that most of the collective (excepting charlotte, jane, sir lucas, and partially the gardiners) would also easily believe whatever rumors come about.

@mclevine13

2 жыл бұрын

I think Lizzy might exaggerate somewhat, but it does seem as though people in a small town would probably take offence at his behaviour at the assembly. Furthermore, once Lizzy has had her eyes opened by Darcy's letter, she still believes that enlightening the town about Wickham would be difficult. This passage from when she is asking Jane's advice on the matter illustrates that: "The general prejudice against Mr. Darcy is so violent, that it would be the death of half the good people in Meryton to attempt to place him in an amiable light."

@martinhahn1390

2 жыл бұрын

I think you made a good point there (2). It seems to me that there's a great part of wishful thinking in Elizabeth 's point of view. She can not possibly know what the popularity of Meryton thinks about Darcy - maybe they think him proud, but did they really dislike him as Lizzy does? From my point of view, there is no real reason for that.

@londongael

2 жыл бұрын

Like all truths "universally acknowledged"...

Wickham deployed the classic fortune teller/ghost whisperer grift which is to make vague suggestive comments, allow the person they're conversing with to lead and open new avenues and fill in the blanks, and then agree with their bias. Worked very well for him that Lizzie was already predisposed to think awfully of Darcy. She did a lot of the work convincing herself.

Please do a close reading of Mrs. Bennet, the good and the bad! Her performance when visiting Jane at Netherfield please because I’m not sure I understand everything that went down. I feel like I may be as thick as Mrs Bennet though I promise that I am not as argumentative as she is. 😅

28:36 - 'If it did, he could just stop talking.' You have no idea how strongly I burst out laughing💀💀💀💀

When we first come across Darcy, the events between Wickham and Georgiana cannot long have taken place. The surprise is that Darcy would want to be in the company of strangers at Meriton at all.

@martinhahn1390

2 жыл бұрын

I am not sure that Darcy really wanted to be there. Perhaps he felt that he had failed his sister and that it would be better (to her, not to him) to be away for a certain amount of time. Or maybe his aunt (not LC, of course) had convinced him to stay away for a while. On the other hand, he may have promised to Bingley to accompany him and felt bound to this. But this is only conjecture, we don't know for sure.

@strll3048

2 жыл бұрын

I think that Mr. Darcy really wanted to find a good husband for his sister and he followed Bingley and tried to observe his habits and pursuits to make sure that his goodness is not just a dangerous front, like Wickham. Maybe this also explains why he did not influence him to rent an estate near his and so on. It must have been hard to spend every single evening being chased by Miss Bingley and endure the pert Mrs. Hurst and her husband.

@martinhahn1390

2 жыл бұрын

​@@strll3048 I can not imagine that Darcy really thought of Bingley as a potential husband for his sister. A friend of his.. well, ok. But don't forget where Bingley came from. It wouldn't have been a good match. Apart from that, Georgiana was still much too young to marry at the time. And for the chasing by Miss Bingley... this is very much a fanfiction trope. Yes, she's interested in him, but in the novel she doesn't show it so obviously as is often portrayed in other stories.

@londongael

2 жыл бұрын

@@martinhahn1390 Teasing Mr D about Elizabeth's "fine eyes", reading a book only because it's the second volume of his, and declaring there's no finer enjoyment before tossing it aside, inviting Lizzy to take a turn about the room in order to show off her figure (Darcy's right about that)...she's TOTALLY obvious!😁

@strll3048

2 жыл бұрын

@@martinhahn1390 If memory serves, Mr. Darcy, later in the novel, admits the motive "she had long attributed to him" of intending Mr. Bingley for his sister. As Mr. Bingley is so good hearted and has a pleasant disposition, perhaps he feels that his sister happiness would be safer in his hands than in other men of his social standing.

This is brilliant! Manipulators and con artists are successful because they tell people what they want to hear.

The book "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker includes a list of behaviors that signal that someone's up to no good. It is astounding to read that book with Wickham in mind and see how many boxes he checks.

@awaywithwords6

2 жыл бұрын

That makes sense since wickham is revealed to be not simply a manipulative and deceitful person but is also very likely a sexual predator that prefers underage girls.

@dawnkindnesscountsmost5991

10 ай бұрын

_The Gift of Fear_ is a fantastic book. I don't remember if this is a direct quote, but one of the things I learned from it is that _charm is a verb, not a virtue._

@becky-hx1ge

5 ай бұрын

It confirms the genius of Jane Austen.

To show the brilliance of Jane Austen’s writing. She was describing a narcissist in Mr.Wickham. Narcissists will seek out people with empathy and will use sob stories to ingratiate themselves with others. They are like human vampires and it is mothers milk to them to have someone feel pity for them. Jane Austen wrote his character long before modern psychology.

In the conversation Wickham also has ‘future proofed’ his lies to Elizabeth by preparing/alerting her to hear (and discard) any positive opinions she may hear regarding Mr Darcy by warning her that the world generally holds a positive opinion of Mr D.

@outsideofenough6466

7 ай бұрын

Good point. He’s also done that by relating his side of the story first, so should Darcy ever say something about his past with Wickham, she wouldn’t believe him and stick to the version Wickham told. So Wickham made an ally out of her, backing him should anything negative come up about him, and he hoped she’d possibly help him spread his story of woe. I don’t think she would ever do that tho.

You explain Wickham's treachery and sneakiness so well!! I hadn't even thought about all of these little techniques he uses, and yes, they are absolutely reflective of real-life manipulators.

Oh my gosh! Flattening. I've always wondered about Lizzy's liking Wycombe. He felt like such a self-centered person in his conversations, in this case, damning Mr. Darcy and making himself look good - which in itself, to me, is enough to make someone suspect, and get me away from them. But the close reading, and your accompanying analysis, shows us *why* she falls for it. That technique of mirroring is so very effective, is it not? As with Lucy Steele, the powerless ingratiating themselves with the powerful, or, as we see here, weasels manipulating others for their own ends. And we all do this! If someone asks me a question about something they know I'm interested in, as happened today, I often don't stop to think whether they're just being polite or why they're asking: I'm happy to launch into a paragraph that perhaps they were not looking for. Sigh. So effective. And Miss Austen so very perspicacious. It is the close reading that makes your videos absorbing. Thank you for all your cogitations off camera that then give us these gems to think on, ourselves.

A lot of charming, manipulative people also use pity to their advantage. I read in the Sociopath Next Door that the one of the surest way to identify a sociopath is their reliance on pity and playing the victim, the way Wickham does. Not sure if Wickham or other manipulators really qualify as sociopaths but they are certainly dishonest!

Very interesting! The characterization definitely rings true. Mr. Wickham’s response to being the guilty one is to overcompensate with kindness, to make people biased in his favor. I knew someone like that in college. There was an incident when he treated me horribly, and afterwards, instead of apologizing, he became extremely friendly and charming (and naturally I bristled), and then he went out of his way to ingratiate himself with my friends (and they were charmed!). Needless to say, it put me in a very uncomfortable position! But he was was vying for the upper hand.

@dorothywillis1

2 жыл бұрын

What an awful person! I hope he was eventually found out by at least some of your friends!

@nocomment2468

2 жыл бұрын

@@dorothywillis1 haha thank you. some of my friends kinda just went along with him, though they didn’t really see him as a good person. And to be fair, what he did to me wasn’t bad enough that an acknowledgment and apology couldn’t have patched things up! I just see a parallel in Austen’s character and my jerk.

He's using a lot of cold reading and then mirroring echoing her own opinions and personality back at her and using confirmation bias and validation to manipulate her that her instincts are right when actually she's wrong. A friend of mine has stated that Lizzy and Darcy are actually both pretty arrogant except we kinda forgive them because the sources of it come from assumptions of things outside their experience. They are both in differing ways sheltered and in some ways she's a lot more naive than she thinks she is.

@donsharpe5786

2 жыл бұрын

A typical con man.

I was just thinking that, as the book is recommended for 12 years and over, what a different experience a twelve year-old with no life experience would have, than, say someone in their forties or over, with a great deal of life experience, who may have come across these charming, narcissistic manipulators, would have reading it. The more often I read it, the more little things come up that I hadn't noticed before. My book group reads just a chapter a day, and Austen really stands up to that close scrutiny -some books don't hold up so well. But then, Austen was a master in not only seeing the behaviour traits of those around her, but also being able to write about them in such a way that was almost a manual for pre-psychology students of human nature. Great breakdown, Octavia - thank you! It was most enjoyable. But I'm going to pick you up on a small detail. When Elizabeth says she only heard of Lady Catherine two days earlier, that *was* the case. Mr Bennet only read his cousin's letter the morning of the day Mr Collins would be arriving, thus giving his wife, and all of their staff, no time whatsoever to get the spare room ready for a guest. Another example of Mr Bennet's 'thoughtfulness'... 😕

I read the novel first when I was in my mid teens and was completely gullible. I believed Wickham, and therefore the subsequent revelation of his evil was all the more thrilling as I was caught by surprise. It really is a charming, albeit, naive way to read the story! Now that I am old and hopefully more aware, it gives a different kind of pleasure to read scenes like this one and see the strategies of a “charmer.”

To this day I still wonder why Wickham went out of his way to ensure and increase Lizzie's dislike of Darcy and paint Georgiana as a not good person. Lizzie didn't even know that Mr Darcy had a sister.

@Windjammers1

2 жыл бұрын

It's all part of the game. Wickham lies all the time, and he can't stop lying.

@dawnkindnesscountsmost5991

10 ай бұрын

Georgiana Darcy was spoken of, in Elizabeth's presence, during Elizabeth's stay at Netherfield, when Jane was ill; this was shortly before Elizabeth met Wickham.

Great video! Please do one on why Darcy and Lizzy are so compatible x

Most enjoyable. I really like the Austen and Bronte talks. I think that Lizzie Bennett and Jane Eyre are two of the great women of literature.

I don't think I saw anything strange in the conversation the first time I read it (I was roughly 12 and too young to fully understand propriety at all, let alone that there might be definitions outside my own experience), but I remember feeling uneasy about Wickham when he didn't show up at the ball. Lizzie immediately excuses him, but his going back on something he had so clearly stated his stance on made me uncomfortable. So I think that was the moment I began to doubt him slightly, even though I didn't really doubt that what he had said of Darcy was true.

I think a big component here as well is that Jane Austen was aware that a charming and extremely good-looking person already has a head start in terms of believability in certain situations. Wickham recognised that this was the case with Lizzie and probably with any female whom he was meeting for the first time or who didn’t know him very well. So that I’m sure is what opened the door to the gullibility that Elizabeth fell prey to. What do you think?

@glendodds3824

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, as people are attracted by good looks they often assume that the person has attractive qualities too.

@janetsmith8566

2 жыл бұрын

@@glendodds3824 plus his charm. And manipulation skills. Oh dear….

@outsideofenough6466

2 жыл бұрын

Yes! Lizzie even thinks to herself during the conversation, `A young man too, like you, whose very countenance may vouch for your being amiable''

I'm really enjoying your Pride and Prejudice videos. Keep them coming as they are most interesting

I have always wondered which one would have turned white and which red and what the colors symbolize? Would white mean that Wickham was white with fear and Darcy red with anger? Or Darcy white with anger and Wickham red with embarrassment?

@esmereldakaffeeklatch8812

2 жыл бұрын

I'd vote for Darcy white with anger and Wickham red with embarrassment. When you're white with anger, it means that you're ready for action.

@londongael

2 жыл бұрын

Good question! I like the Darcy white, Wickham red interpretation (as more consistent with Darcy's dignity as a hero), but it's fun that Jane Austen doesn't tell us.

@belindamilne4922

2 жыл бұрын

I’m thinking of Wickham as being white with fear and Darcy as red with anger. Wickham never struck me as a man to feel embarrassment over his actions, rather I read his response and later manipulation of Lizzie Bennett as based on his fear of being discovered and publicly denounced. This fear is later seen when he runs away from Brighton (taking Lydia with him) to avoid being disgraced for refusing to pay his gambling debts

This vid is wonderful. I'm so glad YT suggested it to me. I liked how you pointed to Lizzie's need to speak her mind. It's one of her strongest qualities and one she values in herself. But it is also the one that was exploited so much by Wickham. I often find myself blindly spiraling into qualities that I think important but that also have a compulsion attached to them (due to various often social restrictions put on them). I think Lizzie's need to be heard and of an independent mind worked against her here in a similar fashion.

One thing that stood out for me originally in Elizabeth’s conversation with Wickham was her “he deserves to be publicly disgraced!” remark. It seemed pretty strong. I remember thinking: “Maybe I just don’t know how the enforcement of wills/bequests worked at that time.” I still don’t know, actually.

@ruthfeiertag

2 жыл бұрын

A discussion of Mr. Darcy's will and what happens to whatever was left to Mr. Wickham would be an excellent topic to explicate. Please. Dr. Cox, consider breaking those intricacies down for us.

@debbiericker8223

2 жыл бұрын

@@ruthfeiertag I seem to recall in one film version (the BBC one?) that Darcy had Wickham sign something when paying Wickham money in lieu of providing him the living. Does anyone else recall that? I'm not sure...

@katehurstfamilyhistory

2 жыл бұрын

In the novel, there is a really subtle, blink-and-you'll-miss-it kind of detail about Darcy senior's will; Lizzy asks Wickham why he didn't challenge Darcy junior about the legacy from his dad, and Wickham replies, "There was just such an informality in the terms of the bequest as to give me no hope from law. A man of honour could not have doubted the intention, but Mr. Darcy chose to doubt it -- or to treat it as a merely conditional recommendation, and to assert that I had forfeited all claim to it by extravagance, imprudence, in short any thing or nothing." If you read between the lines, just based on looking at wills for family history research, I suspect that Mr. Darcy senior added some sort of clause to his will. (One of my ancestors did this - saying that his daughter would forfeit her inheritance if she married a local schoolmaster, so I wonder what was going on there!) Maybe Wickham even gives it away with the words "extravagance, imprudence"? We also don't know exactly what the bequest was - Darcy's letter says that he gave Wickham £3000 rather than the living (vicarage) his father intended for Wickham, and I think Wickham says it was at a place called Kympton. Possibly, Darcy's dad makes a will saying "To my godson George Wickham, the living at Kympton, as soon as the present vicar dies" - so old Mr. Darcy is providing Wickham with a place to live, a career opportunity and the vicar's stipend/salary (which is a pretty good deal, all things considered!) but not a physical amount of money. From what Darcy junior says in his letter, Wickham decided he didn't want the living, so presumably Darcy junior then said, "I can't leave you empty-handed, will you accept a one-off cash lump sum?" and Wickham pocketed the £3000 instead. Darcy senior is a wealthy man, probably with access to (and funds to pay for) extremely good legal advice, so I seriously doubt his will would have included a bequest that was as vague as Wickham's making it out to be!

@ruthfeiertag

2 жыл бұрын

@@debbiericker8223 I do recall that as well.

@funkyfranx

2 жыл бұрын

The position Wickham was offered would have been a really good one, it would have set him up for life and given him gentleman status. Darcy taking that away from an otherwise family-less, fortune-less man out of jealousy would have been terrible indeed. It was really hard to move up in society back then.

to Lizzy's defense, she was insulted by Mr Darcy at the dance (thouh Darcy only intimated his opinion about the entire assemble to his friend alone) but since Lizzy overheard him, she was prejudiced to dislike him. And Wikham is astute to see how Lizzy was willing to believe him and would become his unsuspectin defender. We must learn to be careful of expressin our dislike about people or work places with too much passion as someone may use it to hurt us.

Indeed, Jane Austen's ingenuity is in showing *how human* all this manipulation is, how common it is for us to be so captivated, by people who *seem* to be thinking the same as we do (about whatever), that we would take off our natural guards - and, quite potentially, be then thus manipulated).

Mr Whickham over here channelling How to Win Friends and Influence People over a century before it was written. I'm admiring the cunning even though I know his general awfulness.

What I also would like to know is, why mr Wickhams gambeling and affairs in Meryton, were only revealed when he had run away with Lydia. Why wasn’t there any gossip or rumors about him when he was still in the area?

@Windjammers1

2 жыл бұрын

I have a theory -- no one wanted to admit they got swindled or their daughters got trifled with. Then, when news came back of Lydia's "elopement," that opened the floodgates and everyone could complain about Wickham.

Thank you for your video. I think Elizabeth had to learn the lesson how to spot ‘the rat’. Otherwise it would have been a very short story haha. Furthermore, I love her character as well… her warmth, sensibility and her strength. She had just had to learn how to yield these good qualities. And the fact that she has enough introspection gives her the chance to see her flaws and grow. And that is what makes it such a good and believable character/book. Jane Austen understood more about psychology before this science was well established.

I think Lizzie is enjoying indulging in a good gossip about a man who hurt her feelings. She's delighted by WIckham agreeing with her and adding to her opinion. I agree that Wickham is flattering her. As a reader, I love the way she makes Wickham out to be a talker behind people's backs. It makes the reader wary of him and foreshadow what we later learn.

😂 If it really pained him to speak ill of a Darcy, then he could just… stop… talking. 😆 Oh so true!!

How exciting to have another one of these insightful Austen analysis!

I think, additionally to what has been so cleverly pointed out in the video, he gets extra points by Lizzy for speaking so warmly of Mr. Darcy's father. Because someone who is capable to love someone this much must have good reason to think ill of his son. Also, he gets extra points for staying gay and "unartful" and positive, essentially, even though he has every reason to be mad in her eyes

I remember my first perusal of P & P in high school I, like Lizzy, believed Wickham. I did like Mr. Darcy because I thought he's an introvert like me and really want to doubt it but I also thought maybe what Wickham said was true. He mentioned Pemberley and we as a reader know that Mr. Darcy is the owner of Pemberley. And since Darcy and Wickham exchanged those glances in Meryton, they had a history/past, it made me believe that maybe what he said was true. I think it was only after rereading the book a couple more times, did I notice the little tricks he was using on Lizzy. It's such good writing.

I love all these close readings and i love pride and prejudice and the exploration of the novel in more depth is a treat to me

After discussing Darcy's letter with Jane, Elizabeth concludes "one is good and the other has all the appearance of goodness" On first meeting, both Darcy and Wickham strike all the Bennet women as attractive men. The distinction is in their manner. Darcy is a snob while Wickhan turns on the charm, the appearance of goodness. Lizzie soon develops a mild crush on Wickham so she is predisposed to believe what he says about himself. She is likewise inclined to believe anything negative said about Darcy because he insulted her. That insult is the reason she cannot admit to herself that she admires Darcy and desires his approval. When we have a low opinion of someone, we do not care what they think of us. But when slighted by someone we hold in high esteem, we are deeply wounded. Elizabeth is readily duped by Wickham because she is trying to validate her resentment toward Darcy. Since negative gossip is what she wants to hear, she fails to observe that the very act of gossiping shows a want of character in Wickham. She reshapes her wounded vanity into a semblance of righteous indignation.

I think this analysis of yours is really helpful to those of us in the world who have been blind and not scrutinized our prides of our own character, but wished our perceptions to be confirmed, so we may affirm our own cleverness. So thank you on behalf of many gullible folk as I have been in my life from time to time.

I do have to say that Lizzie was willing to hear the worst about Darcy because she heard his insult of her her at the dance where the Bingleys and Mr. Darcy were introduced. I can't say that she was manipulated. She too was naive!

Another word for charmer is manipulator. Precisely what Wickem is in order to get what he wanted not only from Lizzy but also Old Mr. Darcy, Geogiana and Lydia.

I would definitely fall for such manipulations. Very fine work, Mr Wickham.

I often wondered if Mr Wickham ever had any genuine interest in Elizabeth Bennet, or was he only briefly interested because of her dislike for Mr Darcy, and saw an opportunity to gain an ally and further blacken his name. Wickham certainly dropped Elizabeth like a hot brick once another young lady came on the scene who had inherited a large amount of money.

Your style and way of talking is so nice and captivating I am sure I would enjoy listening to you talk about any thing even if it’s out of my scope of interest- you are so talented - cheers from Australia- Amany

I notice too that in murder mysteries the murderer is always the last person you would suspect the one that seems so nice.

Others have probably floated this idea below, but I will admit to be totally taken in by Wickham the first time I encountered this story. Austen got me to begin to question him only with Jane and Charlotte’s warnings to Lizzie about not believing him so implicitly and not snubbing Darcy for someone with much less consequence. Lizzie’s biases prevent her from being able to see the merit in advice given by her most trusted confidantes, but hopefully the reader will pay closer attention.

What other techniques of persuasion do you think Wickham uses in this conversation? And what other ways do you think the reader might smell a rat, even if Lizzy Bennet herself does not?

@rhondamarie3483

2 жыл бұрын

When Wickham meets Mrs. Gradiner, he goes right into it with her, asking if she knows the current Mr. Darcy, then telling her all his "troubles." This should put him in a bad light with Lizzy and the readers. I can forgive some gossiping among young people, but he's blabbing it all to this lady he barely knows. He should have simply made pleasant conversation.

@strll3048

2 жыл бұрын

When he pretends to confide in Elizabeth and she is a stranger to him. More than that, he confides things that he had just said that he never could divulge until he can forget the kindness of the late Mr. Darcy.

@bonniehagan9644

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you again, Dr. Cox! I always enjoy your Austen videos. One thing that struck me is that we have characterized both Wickham (P&P) and Miss Lucy Steele (S&S) as charmers. So I find it interesting to think about both of your videos together, and to compare these two characters. I believe most people would find Wickham the more odious of the two, but both are trying to get the advantage, whether that is to gain class status, or of course, money. If Lucy is less despicable than Wickham, is it because she is a woman and must therefore be even more clever and obsequious to get ahead? She could not risk her reputation as easily as Wickham could and still find any place in society. Hmm... pondering.

@jennysedgley8284

2 жыл бұрын

Flattery - the false intimacy of the conversation, asking her opinion, & agreeing with her. Very charming. And charm is inherently dishonest. Fun fact: words like charming, fascinating, & enchanting were originally associated with witches casting spells.

@debbiericker8223

2 жыл бұрын

There is a photograph of Wickham in the dictionary next to the word "smarmy" and of Lizzy next to "bamboozled."

Thinking of the question you posed regarding how the reader interprets this scene…I personally would chock it up to a narrative device to get the story out in front of the reader. Is that a more modern take? Since we see such things happen frequently in movies. Would the readers at the time read it differently? Thank you for these videos, I’ve loved Austen since I was 11, but without the literary depth of understanding. I love how learning more, even just about the time, gives more colour and depth to the characters. ❤️

Thank you for really laying out how Lizzie was manipulated by Wickham. I need to go back and read the novel for the third time to really review the conversation in depth now that I have a better understanding of it. As Dr. Cox said, Austen's novels are tightly structured. Very few words are out of place!

Dr. Cox can you do a character analysis on Becky Sharp? She fascinates me with her survival instinct and manipulation.

@ruthfeiertag

2 жыл бұрын

I second that request.

@tsilsby888

2 жыл бұрын

Oh yes, please! Pretty please!

Great analysis ! I thought Lizzie's saying that everyone thought him proud and disliked him was sincere and not an exageration, based on the fact that everyone thought him proud at the ball. I always thought it was a reflexion on the nature of gossip and how fast the town's opinions are formed, just like with Wickham who is instantly liked, and yet when his character is revealed, everyone says how they always distrusted him

I've always thought that Mr. Wickham, like most real con men, is extremely intuitive, and can pick up on things that are neither obvious nor even really visible to other people. That is why quite a few of his actions later in the novel are made with the direct intent of hurting AND manipulating Darcy, and as a side benefit, hurting Lizzie. He can read Lizzie's feelings, so that, in addition to other reasons very well explained in another Dr. Octavia video, when he elopes with a certain young lady he really feels is disposable, he is able to work the situation in way that must benefit himself to save what can be saved of the honor of others. (We are gratified in the last chapter of the book to learn that this is his last real triumph in manipulating the characters we know and love, and his is really a Pyrrhic victory in the end.)

Interesting idea that Wickham first checks how much Lizzie knows about Darcy's family before speaking of them - & he has no reason to think she will become better acquainted with them. Of course, Darcy not 'puffing up' Lady Catherine to the people of Hertford could also be explained by the fact that he doesn't rate anyone there & to whom would he be boasting- he's not interested in speaking with any of them! Read someone recently who sees parallels between Emma (book & eponymous heroine) and P&P & Lizzie...would love to see a "compare & contrast" upload about how far it's sensible to take this. A few of Austen's other major novels have characters not dissimilar to George Wickham; William Elliott, Henry Crawford and to a lesser degree John Willoughby. Not decided about Capt. Tilney.

I REALLY like the in-depth videos on style and form!!

Thank you for this brilliant explanation of Wickham's techniques to mislead and manipulate Elizabeth. Each of your videos shows how huge is the talent of Jane Austen in creating rich and realistic characters. I have recently read Thomas Hardy's novel "Far from the madding crowd" and I was struck by the resemblance between Sergent Troy and Wickham. So I wanted to ask you : did Jane Austen create a sort of archetype with Wickham ? Still thank you for your great work !

I think he told that story everywhere he went. The fact Darcy was there probably was bound to happen at some point. I think psychopaths are masters at bringing up the past to make themselves victims even without the excuse that they are present.

Hello Dear Sister. Greetings and blessings from San Juan de Lurigancho, Lima, Perú.

Really detailed analysis. I love this book And I think that Austen's ability to pinpoint real characteristic flaws is unsurpassed. I see her characters everywhere in real life including myself!

Wickham avoids being with Darcy, makes an excuse for not coming to a party they were both invited to, but after Darcy leaves town THEN he comes and spins his lies. That was a red flag to me. If he was truly the aggrieved party why did he act ashamed/guilty?

I first read P&P when I was 15 (in 1974), and was totally taken in by Wickham. And subsequently totally taken aback by Darcy's letter! I was credulous, I know, and didn't then know what a genius Austen was at leading the reader astray.

I was naive enough as a reader that, when I first read Pride and Prejudice, I fell for Wickham's story hook, line, and sinker. Now that I'm (hopefully) a bit wiser, I wish I could read it without knowing the truth and see if I would catch that Wickham's story doesn't add up. Although, there is another way Wickham's story may not set off alarm bells for us. As readers, we're expecting someone to tell us more, even if it's not something that would be likely in real life at this point.

That was an interesting question; do we the readers also initially feel disgust towards Darcy? Many of us nowadays know the outcome of the book before we have even read it (either through film, or TV adapations etc), but it would be interesting to know how first time readers back at time, when communication was much slower, would have felt. Were there enough clues in the writing to up to the point of Wickham's disclosures to let the reader in on Wickham's ploy, or, would they too, like Elizabeth, have been taken in?

Wickham lied by omission. It’s such a deceitful way to lie; so very shady.

Always a pleasure to watch your videos on Jane Austen’s novels and characters, and I learn so very much 👏 👏 👏 May I compliment you as well on your choice of attire and accessories for this particular presentation. The print of your dress/blouse becomes you so well, and I liked very much on you the green accent of the pendant and the cocktail ring ☺️💐

This is absolutely brilliant.