If you like the work I do, then you can support it here: www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=D8LSKGJP2NL4N Many thanks for watching the video.

@cminmd0041

2 жыл бұрын

Okay!!

@KatieRae_AmidCrisis

2 жыл бұрын

Done! A very modest donation - but made with appreciation and pleasure.

@ccrisc100

2 жыл бұрын

Would love a video explaining why Edward Ferrars was disowned but his brother was allowed to marry Miss Steele and get his brother's inheritance to boot. Thanks, I find your videos always very interesting.

@yvonneprice6717

2 жыл бұрын

Can you speculate on whether Wickham is the bastard son of Darcy’s father? The boys were raised together, Wickham has the temerity to state to Elizabeth that Darcy’s father lived him more, and Wickham repeatedly takes such risks to alienate someone who, without blood ties, would perhaps have taken more decisive action to sever their ties. Thank you.

@nickwilliams7547

2 жыл бұрын

@@ccrisc100 Me too!

At the very end of P&P we learn that the Gardiners and the Darcys (after Darcy marries Elizabeth) "were always on the most intimate terms." So Darcy-- not only a very rich landowner but the grandson of an earl-- chooses his friends by their qualities, not by their assigned position in society.

@rachelhamm19

2 жыл бұрын

a good quality which he likely learned from his father, as the deceased Mr. Darcy placed the highest trust and friendship on his steward, Mr. Wickham (the elder), condescending enough to be the godfather to his son (the Mr. Wickham of the story)

@kmcq692

2 жыл бұрын

@@rachelhamm19 fantastic new level of insight...thank you.

@EmoBearRights

2 жыл бұрын

It's also significant that when facilitating Wickham and Lydia's wedding Darcy deals with Mr Gardiner a man of a lower social standing than him but those character he respects rather than Mr Bennett a man of those own class whose character he regards as lacking. It's specifically mentioned he waits for Mr Bennett to leave London before approaching Mr Gardiner.

@sue1342

2 жыл бұрын

@@EmoBearRights We should remember, though, that Darcy didn't intend for Lizzie to know about it and it would be unlikely for her to remain in ignorance of his involvement if he were dealing with Mr Bennett.

@marshsundeen

2 жыл бұрын

@@sue1342 Darcy did not want Elizabeth to feel Indebited to him.

Bingley being of a slightly lesser class really explains why he takes Darcy's advice about Jane more seriously, and also a bit why he's so easygoing and polite. He sort of needs to be to get by.

@abacoejenks

2 жыл бұрын

exactly what I was going to say.

@FreyaEinde

2 жыл бұрын

@Anja Martinez Caroline is a social climber and an upstart, that explains her personality as well. She wouldn't need to be such a snob if she was more secure.

@user-xd6nc6rg7b

2 жыл бұрын

@Anja Martinez She wants to be upper class. She hopes that if her brother marries someone with higher status and more money than the Bennets, she’ll have a better chance of landing Darcy or someone higher up than he is.

@ah5721

2 жыл бұрын

@@user-xd6nc6rg7b yes and we see how Miss Bigley put in airs and talks bad about Lizzie to try and show she is better than her as she comments on her not coming in a carriage and the mud on her hem acting as a "pick me " girl. Lizzie even calls her out on this as as they walk about the room while being inside

@drzaius844

2 жыл бұрын

It reminds me a little bit of Pip being trained to be a gentleman by Herbert Pocket, in Great Expectations. Bingley just doesn't know the ropes yet and has a sort of humility about his situation that makes him endearing.

The Bingleys are what we call nouveau riche while Darcy is old money nowadays.

This is such a good breakdown, but I would further drive home just how important connections really were. Mr Darcy and the Bennets belong to the same class, yes, but what sets them apart isn't just money. Right after Elizabeth says to Lady Catherine, "He is a gentleman; I am a gentleman's daughter; so far we are equal", Lady Catherine replies, "True. You are a gentleman's daughter. But who was your mother? Who are your uncles and aunts? Do not imagine me ignorant of their condition." While the Bennets belong to the gentry, none of their relations do. Darcy, meanwhile, is the grandson of a late earl, the nephew of an earl, the cousin of a future earl, and the cousin of a knight or baronet's only daughter and heiress. While untitled himself, he is surrounded by titled or near-titled individuals. This, of course, widens the gap between him and Elizabeth, but it also enables him to bridge the gap without much risk to himself. Elizabeth's lack of money will not negatively affect his financial position, her class is technically the same as his, and while her lack of valuable connections gives him pause at first--as stated in his first proposal--he has more than enough to go around already. Marrying Elizabeth is, for him, a small risk that carries a very high reward. While we know plenty about Mr Darcy's connections, the same cannot be said for the Bingleys. All we are ever told is that their father had died before he could purchase an estate. No mention of a mother (though we can assume she is dead), nor any aunts or uncles or cousins. Since I'm sure Miss Bingley would have flaunted any valuable connections, we can assume either that the Bingleys have none, or that the ones they have aren't (in their opinion) worth mentioning. I believe this is the biggest reason Miss Bingley is so set against Mr Bingley marrying Jane. Although nowhere near as rich as Darcy, they are still very well off, and they're already straddling the line between genteel trade and gentry. Mr Bingley's marriage alone--regardless of whom he married--would not materially change their position, either class-wise or financially. So Mr Bingley marrying Jane, a gentleman's daughter, should not be seen as such a bad thing. Except. All of Jane's aunts and uncles belong to the very class Miss Bingley wants to escape, and therefore Jane is tainted by association. Mr Bingley clearly does not care about this, but Miss Bingley does. As you say, the Bingleys' place in society is much less secure than Mr Darcy's. In attempting to bring about a marriage between Mr Bingley and Miss Darcy, Miss Bingley is not only trying to increase her own chances of marrying Mr Darcy (which would of course bring her squarely into the landed gentry, though her family would be left behind), but she is also trying to increase the social standing of her entire family by improving their connections. When Mr Bingley marries Jane, he connects himself to a tradesman and an attourney, and through Lydia, a known rake. Once he purchases an estate and becomes a gentleman proper, any further upwards mobility or an advantageous marriage for his sister, which good connections might have brought about, will be more or less out of reach. No tradesman or attourney could ever facilitate those things. So if climbing as high as possible on the social ladder had been Mr Bingley's highest ambition in life, then marrying Jane would have been an inexcusable mistake. Of course, he also ends up connected to Mr Darcy through Elizabeth, but that was not something anyone expected until after Mr Bingley and Jane were already engaged. So yes, class and money were both hugely important factors, but connections could be just as, or sometimes even more, important. We have to understand what class the Bingleys belonged to in order to understand what Miss Bingley wanted to achieve (upwards mobility)--but we also have to understand the importance of good connections, as well as the potential harm of bad or mediocre connections, to fully understand why she was so against her already wealthy brother marrying a woman who technically belonged to the class above them.

@moni120469

2 жыл бұрын

🥰

@nataliameylunas117

2 жыл бұрын

A very good point.

@Glen2257

2 жыл бұрын

Bravo! Thx

@ashley-gh9li

2 жыл бұрын

Such an interesting comment, thankyou!

@AparnaMatters

2 жыл бұрын

Quite an insight. Helps understand Mr Darcy's initial advice to Mr Bingley better. Thanks!

I've always assumed that one reason Mr Darcy preferred to deal with Mr Gardiner in the matter of Lydia's elopement was that he still hoped to marry Elizabeth, and did not want to humiliate his future father in law if that could be avoided.

@annastamp8183

2 жыл бұрын

That is a really good point and one that had never occurred to me. Thank you 🤩

@lynnevetter

2 жыл бұрын

I agree that is part of it.. I think, Mr Darcy was a very smart guy in this instance and his reasons for his actions were at least threefold.

@Donnah1979

2 жыл бұрын

Yes. Mr. Darcy got involved in order to save the reputation of Elizabeth and her family, in order to keep the opportunity for marriage open.

@shannon4826

2 жыл бұрын

@@Donnah1979 I think it's the exact opposite. He'd already given up hope because his first proposal had already been so thoroughly smacked down so he does all this because he DOES want to see her find happiness, even if it's not with him.

@debbiegrohman8328

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for this foray into the class structure. It helps explain so much! I’ve always tried to understand where my own family ancestors stood in the hierarchy, and with many clergy among them, I appreciate your explanation about the two tiers of gentry.

This gave me so much to think about. I never really thought about it before, but Jane Austen gives such a good (and stinging) portrayal of "new money" vs "old money" with the way the Bingley sisters act. They're so insecure in their social status that they fall into that new money trap of treating people like lesser beings to sort of "prove" they're better because of their wealth. I like to imagine when the Bingley sisters are making fun of Jane and Darcy says "that must materially hurt her chances of marriage" I think it was his dry humor way of poking fun at them, not Jane. (Implying that if having relatives in trade is what made someone unmarriable then the Bingley sisters were very unmarriable.) Another thing is how she points out its very easy to judge people by the company they keep. The thing is we should have focused on Darcy and Bingley being the BFFs and realized Darcy could care less about social rank as long as the person is capable and kind. But because Miss Bingley is all over Darcy like a rash, and Darcy himself is so standoffish around new people, Jane Austen is able to cleverly trick the readers into judging them both harshly. Then the obvious big reveal is that Darcy is a reserved person who is actually the kind of ride-or-die friend we would all love to have. I think that's why Austen,s work has stood the test of time. She was such a good observer of human nature and was able to tease out all the basics that we can identify with still today.

@charlesiragui2473

Жыл бұрын

I never read this as Darcy potentially telling Miss Bingley to back off. But this video is helping me to see this potential angle. It is odd how Miss Bingley tends to tread onto territory that isn't good for her. Another example is the criticism of Elizbeth's looks at Pemberly. "[Darcy] then went away, and Miss Bingley was left to all the satisfaction of having forced him to say what gave no one pain but herself."

@jennymunday7913

Жыл бұрын

@@charlesiragui2473 She truly does! Miss Bingley is shown to be very shallow and short sighted. I think when Darcy stood up for Elizabeth, she was genuinely baffled because the only predictor of whether someone is worthwhile to her is their family wealth. She really thought he'd agree with her!

@charlesiragui2473

Жыл бұрын

@@jennymunday7913 Maybe too there’s the possibility that she mistakenly believes that saying mean things makes her look cool, special. I would say this behavior exists even in our day.

@jennymunday7913

Жыл бұрын

@@charlesiragui2473 Definitely! Miss Bingley and her sister are definitely the mean girls of their time. One of the things I love is that Elizabeth doesn't really put any weight into Miss Bingleys words. Its like she knows how inconsequential Caroline Bingley is to her life. Elizabeth really dislikes being around her, but beyond that she gives her no thought. Its kind of satisfying because you know Elizabeth lives in Caroline's head rent free most days.

@charlesiragui2473

Жыл бұрын

@@jennymunday7913 Great points. Elizabeth is such a lovely creation, really how most people wish they were, in the sense you’re talking about. Ok, she’s prejudiced and makes mistakes in the novel but that only serves to make her character totally believable. And Miss Bingley is awful but pathetic too and it’s easy to feel sorry for her, as Elizabeth does wryly.

This really helped me understand how Lydia's elopement came dangerously close to forever dooming the entire family. There were already many factors that were lowering the social status of the Bennet sisters- relations on Mrs Bennet's side, the impropriety of Mrs Bennet as well as Mary, Kitty, and Lydia, etc. If Mr Gardiner and Mr Darcy had not come to the rescue, the family's status would be lowered by a lot and their reputation would have been tainted forever. Jane and Lizzie are also very lucky to have found Mr Bingley and Mr Darcy, who don't particularly care about status as much as other's would have since they value other qualities before that. In fact, the whole family is truly truly lucky to have escaped the fate that would have very likely occurred because of Mr Wickham's grooming and Lydia's rashness.

That was brilliant. I know I'd clocked that their money was originally from trade, but I never truly appreciated the significance of that as the story progressed. It's even less of a wonder that Caroline Bingley felt threatened by Lizzie Bennett when you consider that, not only had she caught Darcy's attention, not only could she match him with her wit, but also she was of the Gentry. Ha! The class issue alone would have been enough to make Caroline spit feathers 😄

@ah5721

2 жыл бұрын

That's why she was trying to tear down Lizzys slight faux pas like not coming in a carriage ,coming alone and having mud on her petticoat when she comes to take care of her sister.

@marshaprice8226

2 жыл бұрын

Mi

@Lolabelle59

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for making the point that Lizzie was of the Gentry, although that wasn't good enough for Lady Catherine, who said she shouldn't want to quit the sphere in which she was brought up.

@glendodds3824

2 жыл бұрын

@@Lolabelle59 Hi. Elizabeth of course replied that she belonged to the same sphere as Mr Darcy and although her family was not as wealthy or as well connected she was right.

@Lolabelle59

2 жыл бұрын

@@glendodds3824 Yes we're well aware of Lizzie's reply, and thank you for going to the trouble of reiterating it. My point was that, despite Lizzie being equal, Lady Catherine tried to find a way to belittle her, despite that truth.

Thank you! I never really understood “Cheapside”. I thought it was a low-rent-low-class place. You cleared that right up. 😊

@kimberlyperrotis8962

2 жыл бұрын

Chepeside?

@sheilanixon4479

2 жыл бұрын

In 17th Century London,anyone not considered high class enough had to live in Southweark,south of the River Thames.Theatre actors were not allowed to live in London."Lower class people" could work in London,but not live there.This division continued into the 20th Century.

@robinlillian9471

2 жыл бұрын

@@sheilanixon4479 Sounds like Manhattan. No one can live there but the extremely rich and extremely poor (like homeless living in the subway).

@gillothen8913

2 жыл бұрын

@@sheilanixon4479 really not the case. Several of the King's Men company not only lived in the City but were also churchwardens, figures of great respectability. Henry Condell and John Heminges, leading actors as well as the men who collected and published Shakespeare's First Folio, for example, were churchwardens and were buried at St Mary's Aldermanbury. And why not? As members of the King's Men they were officially Grooms of the Chamber, receiving formal grants of livery on state occasions. They were wealthy and influential men.

@srkh8966

2 жыл бұрын

The Bingley sisters completely miss Darcy’s jab at them.

I love this breakdown. Somehow I never realised they were a different class. The more funny it is how the Bingley sisters saw the Bennet sisters as 'below them', while actually they were of a lower class than the Bennets ... Indeed, the hypocrisy figures

@Vasilia4

4 ай бұрын

Makes me wonder why Mrs Bennet wanted Jane to marry Mr Bibgley so desperately*

@JantineSchimmel

4 ай бұрын

Because money @@Vasilia4

@kiarona.

4 ай бұрын

​@@Vasilia4 because of wealth. Jane may have been the daughter of a Gentleman earning £2000 a year, but after his death she would only have £40-£50 a year due to her mother's small dowry. Mrs Bennet is anxious to secure a future for her daughters, where they should be financially provided for - and she doubtless knows that Mr Bingley is being pressured by his sisters to purchase an estate - however I'm not sure she cares that Jane is "marrying down", due to the Bingleys having far more wealth than the Bennets, therefore cementing Jane's future as a wealthy woman

Oh wow I hadn't realized they were of lower class. Even though it was clearly written. 🙈 The sisters made such a fuss, you would think they are second to the queen. I had just assumed they were the same as Darcy, but of lower income. Great video!!

@izuela7677

2 жыл бұрын

I think the fussing is a lot about them wanting to prove that they had the proper upbringing and education and knows how to behave around the gentry (and nobility). Dress right, know all the proper social etiquettes and so on. Remember how Mr Bingley were introduced (by mrs Bennet, I think?) as having inherited his money from his father, who earned it by trade. So it's known at this time that they are probably only second generation wealthy and their father was a self made man. So their father probably paid a lot of money for tutors to make sure they would blend in with the gentry. As he, himself, would not have been raised to know these things.

@whatevergoesforme5129

2 жыл бұрын

Yep, the Bennets are now what we call house poor LOL because they had land/property but not that liquid. The Bingleys are the nouveau riche while Darcy is old money. So Elizabeth Bennet belonged to the gentry and she said her father was a gentleman (and gentlemen in that era earned by being landlords).

@annarita333

2 жыл бұрын

@@izuela7677 You´re right: there is a line in the book, that the Bingley sisters attended an prestigious girls school. I can imagine that they were the lowest rank there, as daughters of a tradesman and that they learned to take on a over the top snobish persona to not be bullied anymore. And now they bully the people "beneath" them, because they fear that people will treat them badly when they show "weakness". Bingley for sure attended university, or he would never even run in social circles to meet Darcy.

@joannasmith4793

2 жыл бұрын

Me too ! I just had assumed they were the same class !

@shelbylong1293

Жыл бұрын

Precisely what they would wish you to believe 😉

I really love how the theme of pride and prejudice is explored in so many ways through the novel. Even side characters can be evaluated in light of their pride and prejudices (like Sir William Lucas becoming disgusted by his own business after being knighted). I don't think I realized the class divide between the Bennets and Bingleys was so distinct, though - I suppose since Mr. Bingley wanted an estate and was capable of buying one, I thought of them as fundamentally different than the Gardiners. But now I see Darcy's treatment of them foreshadows his easy acceptance of the Gardiners. In fact, Darcy's prejudice seems to be more against poor education or personal faults like those Mr. Bennet indulges in. He gets on perfectly well with both Bingley and the Gardiners, preferring them not only to most of the Bennets, but also to Lady Catherine. Elizabeth still has an imperfect understanding of his biases when she believes Lady Catherine's arguments might sway him, I think.

@lucyjane3803

2 жыл бұрын

This is also the point being made in Wickham's subplot - Lizzie misinterprets that Darcy treated Wickham poorly for being the son of his father's steward, when in fact Darcy quite rightly disowned him for being a piece of s*** 🤣

@risingphoenix8072

2 жыл бұрын

@@lucyjane3803 well put 🤣

@annejeppesen160

2 жыл бұрын

I think there is a distinction between the actively trading Gardiners and the former trading Bingleys. The Bingleys are only one step away from being gentry, the purchase of an estate, Mr. Bingley does not run a company, he lives in essence as a gentleman. The Gardiners lives "within sight of their warehouses" and have day to day business to attend to. Mr Darcy only welcomes the Gardiners after Lizzy's scolding, and at first (according to himself) to prove her wrong.

@mb8787

2 жыл бұрын

@@annejeppesen160 yep, I also think Darcy, even though he likes Bingley, mostly hangs around with him, because he is essentially a gentleman, in all but name. I think he is benevolently snobbish on his friends behalf, and probably are helping him finding an estate that would befit a friends of his... Bingley seemingly have more than enough money to buy the basic manor, but I think he as a single man also wants to be sure he will have a good amount of good company in the society where he makes his home, possibly partly by Darcys advice, but I would guess Darcy would also advice him to think at least twice before purchasing any manor, as it's not easily reversed. And I think miss Bingleys attitude hangs on this, that her brother is all but a gentleman, and furthermore, her brothers best friend is at the top of the gentry... And as a fervent social climber, she tries to consolidate her supposed upper class by avoiding association with people that don't match the status of her "closest" associates, mr Darcy and his sister. Of course she thinks Darcys love for her brother will translate into love for her, so she are probably convinced she will be his wife in time, thus she will outrank most in the gentry, and need not care for them.

I also want to add that perhaps Mr. D did not want to deal with Mr. Bennet when it came to Lydia and Wickam because he didn’t want the chance of Mr. B feeling indebted to him, and that if he should marry Elizabeth B, it should be because she wanted to and not because they’re indebted to him.

@johnwatson2887

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Also, by the time of the Lydia/Wickham debacle, Darcy had reformed. When he re-met Elizabeth in Derbyshire, he specifically wanted to prove to her that her "reproofs had been attended to," and he had cast off his snobbery. He met the Gardiners then, spent time with them, and developed a high opinion of them. His acquaintance with Mr. G was both more recent and more extensive than his acquaintance with Mr. Bennett, which was why he could "more properly consult" with Mr. G.

@stephenoliver1379

Жыл бұрын

@@johnwatson2887 Mr and Mrs Gardiner could be trusted to keep their mouths shut about what really happened. Mr Bennet not so such and Mrs Bennet not at all.

It has always amused me that the Bingleys are in the same position socially as the Lucases but you would never guess it from the way Caroline looks down on them.

@komal146

2 жыл бұрын

Wasn't Charlotte's father a Knight or something?

@cminmd0041

2 жыл бұрын

@@komal146 Technically the Lucases outrank the Bingley's in precedence! It shows the power of money even in this status saturated culture. Caroline Bingley knows she has a dowry of 20K ppounds and she knows that makes her significantly more valuable than Charlotte Lucas. The problem with the Lucases, is he left the trade world without having enough money to sustain his large family!

@tessat338

2 жыл бұрын

@@cminmd0041 Right! And Austin, or "The Narrative Voice" as Dr. Cox refers to it, skewers Sir William and Lady Lucas for just that. If you think about it, Charlotte married a man not dissimilar from her own father.

So Mrs Bennet is a successful Caroline Bingley: a daughter of successful trade, who moved up a class through marriage.

@samanthamullaney4869

2 жыл бұрын

Ish She's the daughter of an attorney at law. The law is a profession rather than a trade and has higher social standing. It was another acceptable pathway for the younger son who wasn't going to inherit land. Law, medicine and divinity (the clergy) are the three most significant of the 'professions,' known as the 'learned professions' going back to medieval times. They required a university level education and were socially respectable in a way which trade was not. Something which would definitely grind Caroline Bingley's gears.

@yourhomeisyourbusiness2221

2 жыл бұрын

The military was also an acceptable profession.

@edennis8578

2 жыл бұрын

Mrs. Bennett's dowry was £5,000 pounds, which wasn't spectacular but not terrible. That means that her father did pretty well. Contrast that to the Bennett daughters, who would have dowries of only £1,000 apiece and all of it coming from Mrs. Bennett's dowry.

@lizziebkennedy7505

2 жыл бұрын

Wow.

@ChicagoDB

2 жыл бұрын

@@edennis8578 - yes, roughly the equivalent of 4-5x the income of the middle class. As Mr. Bennet’s annual income - excluding any investments, was significant at £2000 per year...and his eldest daughters were only in their early 20s...it reflects quite poorly on their father that he had not diligently set aside money for them over that 20 year period. He admits that himself...but it was quite reprehensible.

Everyone fancies themselves a gentry until Dr Cox brings you down to Earth.

I remember writing about "the Bingley sisters" in an A level essay, and being rebuked by my teacher. She told me I made them sound like a second-rate pop group, and made me correct it to "Bingley's sisters". I was annoyed, because I thought my term appropriate to them. But I was over-ruled. It was fifty odd years ago, and no doubt my English teacher is no longer with us. Perhaps I should let it go. 😂By the way, she thought it was Charlotte who dropped Lizzie in it with Lady C - and I always thought it was Mr Collins!

@fascination2525

6 ай бұрын

It was definitely Mr. Collins. Dr. Cox did a video on that subject. And, I call them The Bingley Sisters, too😅.

@amanitamuscaria7500

6 ай бұрын

@@fascination2525 quite correct

@CorwinFound

Ай бұрын

I've often wondered about this. It seemed out of character not just for Charlotte to talk about it with Lady Catherine but even with her own silly husband. Then I remembered that Sir Lucas is as silly and gossipy as his son-in-law (if more pleasant) and it was likely Sir Lucas who passed on speculation about Lizzie and Darcy to Mr. Collins.

Please do an analysis of the military in Austen.

@davidwright7193

2 жыл бұрын

The Austin’s are a naval family (one of her brothers becomes an Admiral and not “of the yellow”) so Army either rich and incompetent or poor and dastardly. The Navy are generally good sound types who are capable, respectable and of good character, if we ignore the piracy, though piracy is their main concern or at least their source of wealth.

@crowfaerymori

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, I’d love to know about where they fit into social classes, who they can marry, etc.

@The_New_IKB

2 жыл бұрын

@@davidwright7193 I take it that by "piracy" you mean prize money legally obtained and awarded by the Admiralty prize courts in accordance with the accepted Laws and Rules of War at the time.

@neilbuckley1613

2 жыл бұрын

I read a rather cruel assessment of what the nobility [ probably Gentry as well ] did with younger sons. If clever and brave - to the Navy; if clever and cowardly - to be a lawyer; if stupid and brave - to the army and if stupid and cowardly - to the clergy.

@davidwright7193

2 жыл бұрын

@@The_New_IKB by piracy I mean the taking of merchant ships by force and the sale of those ships and cargoes for profit, whatever legal protection it may have been afforded at the time.

I cannot help wondering if Darcy's comment about the chances of marrying well was a hint to Miss Bingley that such tasteless talk lowered HER chances of marrying Darcy - whether from deficiency in manners or in relatives.

@somethingwolfish1872

2 жыл бұрын

That is such an interesting and probably accurate idea! Very insightful!

@mihaelanicolescu8246

2 жыл бұрын

What a great point!

@sapphire7424

2 жыл бұрын

Given the family money came from trade they should really be beneath Darcy, but his close friendship with Bingley shows his true personality imho. Love that the twist here could really be a snub to Miss B. Excellent observation 😊

@a.westenholz4032

2 жыл бұрын

Either that or it shows an ironic lack of awareness from Darcy himself. Darcy is not supposed to be perfect in the beginning of the book. He himself admits later that he had been raised with all the pride and biases of his class, for all that he had been given good principles to follow. So while he may have forgotten that the Bingleys come from trade, simply because he sees them as friends, he judges society in general with the biases of his class. Think of it as unintentional snobbery.

@ritan2

2 жыл бұрын

@@a.westenholz4032 I disagree with this. Darcy lays the blame for his conduct not on his class, but upon his parents and on being a spoilt only child, never taught to correct his temper. "almosttaught me to be selfish and overbearing; to care for none beyond my own family circle; to think meanly of all the rest of the world; to at least to think meanly of their sense and worth compared with my own." I find this interesting because although he describes himself in this way, it is at odds with what Mrs. Reynolds says about him, the sweetest-tempered, most generous-hearted boy in the world.

I always felt that Jane Austen, while as acutely aware of class distinctions as anyone in English society of the time, judged people more by “education and manners”, or behavior, than by birth, at least down to a certain class level. I can imagine her having friends whose family roots are in trade, but not domestic servants, for example. This is one thing I like about her, she has, I like to think, a more egalitarian soul than others of her class and time, and judges people on their own merits more than anything else.

@emilylewis5373

2 жыл бұрын

So, you get pride and prejudice. Most of jane Austin's books are about the breakdown in class barriers and what makes a person truly one class or another.

@Woodman-Spare-that-tree

Жыл бұрын

Even today, if you don’t have money, you don’t get a good education. So it comes to the same thing.

@franziskani

Жыл бұрын

I think Jane Austen was a bit of a snob herself. In Persuasion the widowed (vain) father seems to develop some interest in the daughter of his steward. The lady that is invited by his daughters to join them in Bath ,while they snub their youngest sister Ann. She is not perfectly pretty, has freckles but she seems to be able to make herself very agreeable to sisters and father (which is an art in itself). Later on Anne and that future heir of her father assume that her father might make her an offer of marriage. T he prospective heir fears to miss out on the inheritance (if the widower has a son in a second marriage by a young woman), this are his reasons but of course he dresses up that motive. And Anne finds her inferior. But in the book she is not described as mean, so I do not get the objections. She may not be a woman of refined taste or education, but neither were her sisters and she would not be a good fit for him if she were. Anne that is refined is not appreciated by them, so her father would not want a woman like Anne, and such a woman could not be happy with him. Anne was the only nuanced and classy character in that family (her brother in law seems to be nice - but not all that classy). Likely the manners of that "inferior" woman were better than those of the sisters because she had a more humble background and was genuinely thankful for being invited. Which was of course pleasing to the vanity of the father. So much so that he started to get used to her freckles or was kind enough to overlook them.

@lorenaduguid3703

Жыл бұрын

I read a biography of Austen that said one of her correspondents, that she kept up with right to the end of her life was a governess that she had met whilst staying with some wealthy family members. She seemed to get on best with her, so it would appear that you’re right!

@ccaiside6010

6 ай бұрын

I wish the video had addressed to other occupations: the military and the governess. A governess was in an odd situation because she was considered socially superior to the servants in a household, yet had to work for a living. Many a member of the gentry who did not marry or have a rich brother or uncle to support her was forced to find employment as a governess, but did not "fit in" with the family that employed her. @@lorenaduguid3703

I love the book but listening to the commentary tells me that I’ve been relying on the films too much and it’s skewed my understanding of the characters. It’s so great listening to your analysis.

I love how Mr.Darcy initially judges Lizzie based on the actions and temperament of her family. But, it never seemed to occur to him that spending time with Bingley’s sisters might also reflect ill on him because of their prejudiced behavior toward others. Or at least, I understand Lizzie expecting Darcy to be similar to Caroline Bingley in her snobby behavior!

@norarivkis2513

6 ай бұрын

I don't think he believes that simply being around either one of them will reflect ill on him -- he's much too secure for that. Marrying someone with Caroline's snobbery and hypocrisy might affect the way he's perceived, and would certainly embarrass him in public, but he's not interested in marrying Caroline, so it doesn't matter. Elizabeth's relatives' tendency to embarrass him in public does matter, because he *is* interested in marrying her.

This was an excellent breakdown that really put the Bingleys into a whole new context for me. The explanation of class structure adds an important layer to the Bingley sisters' motivations. Here I thought they were just money-grubbing snobs. The fact that they're also pretentious hypocrites and gentry wannabes makes them even more ridiculous.

@drrobinf.a.2942

8 ай бұрын

Well said!

I never really clicked that the Bingley’s were not Gentry, mor because of how the sisters acted. This makes so much more sense now.

Fun fact, the name Bingley was most likely taken from the town of the same name (my hometown), just outside Bradford in the heart of the industrial West Riding. An illusion to the family's roots in trade in the north of England perhaps?

@katehurstfamilyhistory

2 жыл бұрын

I often wonder about that, too. A very neat little twist (never mentioned in the novel, but maybe Jane Austen was aware of it?) is that the Leeds-Liverpool Canal cuts straight through the north from west to east, and just happens to go through Bingley! I like to imagine the same as you, that the surname could be a subtle hint that Bingley's father and grandfather might have been wool merchants or some other kind of traders, maybe with a few canalside warehouses, and that's how they made their money!

@CharlotteC94

2 жыл бұрын

@@katehurstfamilyhistory Absolutely! The opening of the 5 and 3 rise locks in Bingley was pretty widely publicised in the late 18th century. Perhaps the name could have been mentioned more in other areas of the country after that?

I always considered Darcy a man of the world and a realist, who understood the very real drawbacks of these social distinctions, but doesn’t let them over-rule him. His biggest mistake was mentioning these concerns while proposing to Elizabeth, that’s just downright rude and heartless. What lady’s pride would allow her to accept such a proposal, or feel pleasure in it?

@emilylewis5373

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with this. We can see this with his interactions with the Gardiners. They are a respectable middle class. From my understanding of the book, he meets them while waiting for Elizabeth at the inn, but it appears he becomes quiet friendly with them.

@ritan2

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely, I think Lizzie said it best, "I could easily forgive his pride, if he had not mortified mine."

@jmarie9997

2 жыл бұрын

@@emilylewis5373 His interaction with the Gardiners came after Lizzie gave him The Smackdown That Shook The World. If he'd met them before, he might have looked at them as Lizzie's mother's low connections.

@scottandcathie

2 жыл бұрын

I think plenty of women would accept him. He's saying he loves her so much to put all this aside to marry her. It's sort of a compliment in Darcy's mind. We read it as rude, Elizabeth hears it as rude, but in Darcy's mind this is a very huge deal that shows just how deep his love is, that it isn't just lust.

@charlesiragui2473

Жыл бұрын

I think you've hit on the truth: the class rules did matter to him. He's clearly trying to judge people on their merits (Enlightenment) but his conservative heart still held to the standards. Only her harsh rebuke (had you behaved in a more gentleman-like manner) could cause the spiritual crisis which pushed him away from his deep-seated prejudice.

Thank you very much, this was extremely interesting. When I first read P&P as a teenager, I didn’t pick up on any of those class nuances. But I also think that a big reason why that was the case is the fact that the Bingleys fit our modern view of high class much better than the Bennets. To us, having a title and an estate doesn’t mean much on its own. The Bingleys were the rich ones, while the Bennets had no money and were very likely to be thrown out of their house, penniless, after Mr Bennet’s death. The Bingleys’ rented estate was much larger and more impressive than the Bennets’, so who cares if it didn’t technically belong to them - that’s another evidence of how much they could afford. The Bingleys had “good” manners, while 3/5 Bennet sisters, Mr and Mrs Bennet kept making one public faux pas after another. We can also assume the Bingleys received standard education of their time, with governesses and tutors to attend them, while Lady Catherine finds out to her horror that the Bennet sisters received no education whatsoever, never had a single governess, and now can’t play music, paint or do virtually anything women of their status should know. So to me, as a modern reader, the Bingleys’ snobbery makes sense. Similarly, in Emma, it doesn’t matter much that Ms. Bates technically comes from a “good” family, she’s put far beneath other characters because she has no money at all and acts “inappropriately” in social gatherings.

@susanwhite7474

Жыл бұрын

I don't think it's true or even implied by Lady D that the Bingley girls received no education - they just didn't have a governess to educate them. And I'm sure they could plan the pianoforte

Literally love your work. It's like literature candy 🍬

Even though I read Pride and Prejudice in my mother tounge, which is spanish, I absolutely love your videos and they help me understand the novel in a different level. I hope reading it again soon. Greetings from Mexico🇲🇽

@aazhie

2 жыл бұрын

Even as an English reader, it helps to have a historian explain how the society worked! There were different ideas and expectations in that time, as well as the location :)

@nicolelujan8068

2 жыл бұрын

Same here These videos are really helpful!

@natkai

2 жыл бұрын

Same! Y también soy mexicana 🦄

This was so interesting! I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read P&P, and yet you have given me a whole new nuance of some of the important themes in the novel! The irony of the pride of miss Bingley! I will forever think of it now when I read it. Like that much of the pride Lizzy perceives mr Darcy to have, actually must be her prejudice just from associating him with the Bingley sisters, and expecting him to be like them. When in fact Lizzy completely seems to overlook the fact that mr Darcy has chosen a best friend in someone who is actually “beneath” him. Something miss Bingley would clearly never do. And the information of Cheapside was absolutely vital! I have never had a clear understanding of what kind of place that would have been or what kind of trade mr Gardiner might have been in, but now I have a better idea. I also never realised that there was another meaning of the word “cheap”, maybe because English isn’t my first language, but that makes everything so much clearer. I’ve always wondered why the Gardiners who are respectable people would live in a “bad” part of London. Clearly they did not. Thank you!

@davidwright7193

2 жыл бұрын

The area in which the Gardeners have their house is now some of the most expensive real estate worldwide. Gracechurch st runs from Bishopsgate down toward the river by the Nat-west tower, the Gerkin and the cheese grater

@elizabethgrosvenor153

2 жыл бұрын

English IS my first language, and I didn't know that either.

I think we are ignoring the change in Darcy's actions after being told by Elizabeth during his failed proposal that he wasn't behaving like a gentleman - and how that obviously shocked him. Shocked him enough to review at his own actions and seize the chance on meeting her at Pemberley to show Elizabeth that he'd listened to her and changed. That's a major part of the conceit of Pride and Prejudice - that Darcy and Elizabeth bring out the best in each other - they both change their behaviour to be better people for their love. Remember that Darcy's proposal to Elizabeth includes a list of the reasons she ought think herself lucky he'd lower himself to make the proposal - he fully believes her to be the artful woman and aware of her power over him - it never occurs to him that Elizabeth doesn't want him. Darcy seems to think he's talking to someone who has been doing her all to gain his attention and I think he's actively resentful and he lists his resentments believing her to be in a position of perhaps even gloating over her triumph at her undeserving catch. Elizabeth's rejection because of how he behaved during their acquaintance jolts him into change. His change and Elizabeth's realisation that she had decided his character wrongly due to her own prejudices and consequent change is one of the most beautiful parts of the novel. But I think that means that yes, Darcy did believe those things he said about Elizabeth not being able to expect to marry well. He wasn't as vulgar as the Bingleys about his beliefs, but I don't think that doesn't mean he didn't think it true. (At the time, obviously, she jolted him out of being a big snob and he become the lovely Darcy that sees the quality of the person 😊 )

@a.westenholz4032

2 жыл бұрын

I agree. I have noticed of late this general tendency to want to ignore Darcy's faults and flaws in the first half of the book. Perhaps influenced by the various movie and TV adaptations which all have made him out to be much less at fault. He is a social snob in the first half, full of all the biases of his class, in how he views society in general, and therefore people he doesn't know (and we all know Darcy is socially awkward). He, however tends to forget or want to forget those views, when he knows someone. Hence his friendship with the Bingleys and love of Lizzy. His proposal in the book is very condescending and insulting, quite insufferable. I think that what Austen is showing with that conversation and later events, is that Darcy, despite not sharing the Bingley sisters vulgarity, and actually growing to like Lizzy enough to propose, did in fact share the same sentiments they were expressing. And just what that looked like from Lizzy's POV. What I enjoy and love about the book is the growth and change in both Darcy and Lizzy. Neither are perfect, but from knowing each other they both grow and make each other better. But that only works if Darcy's faults aren't whitewashed away.

@DipityS

2 жыл бұрын

@@a.westenholz4032 Yes! Beautifully put.

@ritan2

2 жыл бұрын

@@a.westenholz4032 Yes, I agree. And I think this point is one reason why women in particular love P&P. The idea that an intelligent woman confronts a man on his deficiencies and he *actually listens and changes* is golden. But you are correct, in order to have that, you must acknowledge what a jerk he was in the beginning. I do disagree that his behavior was as rooted in class snobbery rather than being a spoiled only child and personal awkwardness (which often falls back on class bias), but either way, one has to recognize his terrible behavior in the beginning to get to the glorious ending.

@kittikats

2 жыл бұрын

Another thing you need to realise at the time is that marriage was often done for many reasons. Moving your family up the social ladder, maintaining family connections, getting more money and securing a future you control were all reasons to be considered before love. For a woman not set to inherit and/or of a large family getting married to a gentleman with a comfortable income was the best for her future. She would control a house, often the houses money and could send money to her relatives. The next best was living off the charity of family - related to above. The worst was having to work, like a nanny. Generally speaking once you worked you weren't going to move up. (There were exceptions such as Miss Taylor in Emma). It's WHY Mrs Elton saying she'd help Jane Fairfax get hired as a nanny is horrifying. With the above reasons it's WHY Mr Collins can't comprehend Lizzy rejecting him. She'd be mistress of her family home, he is connected to her family and "friends" with Lady Catherine. There is no reason to reject him! It's the same with Darcy. Because he is such a catch, she is in no position to reject any marriage offer and her mother is an obvious fortune hunter that he believes just saying "I wanna marry you" would be enough to convince her even if she was indifferent. The fact she rejects him and, quite brutally, takes down his perceived character shows she has no interest in money or the social ladder. She could have easily bitten her tongue, said yes, and secured her own future but she rebels. It becomes clear that she wants a marriage for love and he has not yet earned that or her respect

@DipityS

2 жыл бұрын

@@kittikats Huh? You've made me realise I was looking at Darcy's perception of Elizabeth leading up to the proposal with a twentieth century gaze, Though I came to about the same conclusion - his arrogant assurance of Elizabeth's acceptance - that was based my own ages' reasons rather than how Darcy would have viewed it. Thank you 😊

During the Tudor period there were sumptuary laws that specified what you could wear. It determined your rights by how much you were worth or earned AND it’s source. If your had an income of x from trade your could use fabric worth d per yard but if your had an income of x from land your could use fabric worth d++. It mattered where it came from. These ideas carried on much later.

@Actually_Woke_6277

2 жыл бұрын

Wasn't lace included in that?

"But it must very materially lessen..." from Darcy always struck me as being his voicing his interpretation of the views of Bingley's sisters and mulling over the idea as something kinder/better/more thoughtful/more moral/smarter/better bred people might dismiss - a subtlety Bingley doesn't seize upon and instead takes to be his friend's advice. Also, my gosh, I love that there is a P&P community to discuss this with!

Your elaboration on the class of the Bingley sisters highlights the great insecurity of their position and how this probably impacts their behaviour towards people of trade. In trying to claw their way into the gentry they know no bounds in their cruelty to others. Very insightful. Thank you.

Interesting how Caroline Bingley did not think she was included in the 'relatives of people in trade' having a lessened chance of marrying up the social ladder. Darcy certainly included her.

@sambal91

2 жыл бұрын

I always thought Mr Darcy's comments were mostly directed to her and Mrs Hurst but they were not intelligent enough to catch his meaning.

@trinkab

2 жыл бұрын

@@sambal91 I did not quite understand it the first time I read the book (because at the time I didn't catch the trade comment at the beginning), but the second time I caught it And found it amusing.

@sambal91

2 жыл бұрын

@@trinkab she and her sister laughed at Darcy's comment not knowing they were laughing at themselves. It does bring me amusement and satisfaction but I do also feel slight embarrassment for them.

@trinkab

2 жыл бұрын

I would feel embarrassed for them if they weren't so mean to Jane.

@kittikats

2 жыл бұрын

In the book they were VERY keen to have Charles (Mr Bingley) buy a property to make them landed gentry. Also, as a family, they are currently not working or getting their wealth from a job but their inheritance / the interest. So the two ladies are wilfully ignoring their own background because they have lots of money and went to the best schools / had the best tutors. It would be the equivalent of if Mark Zuckerberg was my dad and I inherited all the money and lived off the interest. I can claim rich, born rich and always rich and ignore that "my" dad made it through work

The saddest part for me was when Lizzy realized the extent of neglect her father has left her family in. He was set up to be a loving, stereotypical father. Then his soft-side gets exposed as folly, "...fully aware of the evils arising from so ill-judged a direction of talents, talents which rightly used might at least have preserved the respectability of his daughters..."

I like how understanding history can help me understand how language and class still works. Fascinating how Austen took such effort to document it all in ways that would remain available to us now. I revel in your historicity. ☺️

Thank you for explaining the English class system. As an American it has always been a murky subject, especially where the clergy are concerned. BTW, another interesting and lovely necklace.

@HRJohn1944

2 жыл бұрын

The English class system also baffles us Brits

@vickinoeske1154

2 жыл бұрын

@@HRJohn1944 😄😁

Absolutely adore your close-reading lectures, Dr Cox. They are a blissful fix for someone long-departed from academia.

This was really interesting! It has shone a completely different light on the story - I had never realised before that Jane is actually marrying beneath her and that Lizzie and Darcy are in the same class. Fascinating - I loved it!

This was incredible! I never realized how much I missed regarding class and the financial picture during the time period, and I never made the connection between the Bingleys' and the Gardiners' situation in life. And, once again, I've learned that I attributed points of view to Darcy that evidence suggests are not actually his. It also never occurred to me to consider the Bingleys when thinking about who the terms "pride" and "prejudice" may refer to. I learned so much from this video.

Loved it! I would love a class analysis of Mansfield Park, since the difference between the sisters puzzles me greatly.

@DeeWaterlily

2 жыл бұрын

Yes! Lady Bertram seems many rungs higher than her sister. But that could be because of how the movie portrayed them. I too would love to see these class analysis.

@Wanda711

2 жыл бұрын

I thought of Mansfield Park at one point in this lecture, when Dr. Cox said that we don't know Lady Lucas's first name. Wouldn't it be Charlotte, like her eldest daughter? I remember Fanny's mother was referred to as Miss Frances before she was married, so I thought maybe it was traditional to name the eldest daughter after the mother.

@cminmd0041

2 жыл бұрын

@@Wanda711 It is certainly a good guess that Charlotte could be her name but there could have been a older daughter that didn't survive or they just didn't follow the naming convention. Like in S&S he named his first born son John and his name was Henry.

@Paula.dot.c

2 жыл бұрын

@@Wanda711 I don't think is only the movie, even if the movie seem to up the difference in circunstances, because the book really states the contrast between the two households as great not only in manners, but in financial matters too. The first paragraph of Mansfield says that the future lady Bertram had 7OOO pounds and from the novels I have the impression that the daughters normally have the same amount of money, regardless of birth order. So Fanny Price's mother would have the same amount. With the four or five percent, it isn't much, but in northanger and SeS the final amount for Catherine and Elinor, married, is not that high and they seem to be comfortably settled. The money in Mansfield seems to me to be higher than the other novels even if the people don't seem to be that much richer (specially if you compare Darcy with Rushworth. The latter is presented as a good match, but not something so grand and he has 12.000 a year)

@benjaminmack7567

2 жыл бұрын

@@Paula.dot.c possibly as Jane Austen started writing Pride and Prejudice in 1797? Albeit publishing it in 1813, whereas Mansfield park was published in 1814, it's merely a reflection of inflation?

I have always assumed that the Bingley siblings were already one generation removed from tradespeople in their family, since their father had planned to move to gentry status. It also appears that the girls, especially, have been trained to behave like aristocracy (in anticipation of successful marriages). This explains (but does not excuse) some of their inappropriately-placed snobbery. Since their father must have died when they were quite young, someone trained them to be mean-spirited and ill-mannered.

@Tasha9315

Жыл бұрын

May I please ask why do you say their father died when they were young? Sorry, I'm asking because I don't remember it mentioned on text as to when he died.

@lisakilmer2667

Жыл бұрын

@@Tasha9315 Chapter 4 gives the backstory on the Bingleys. The father left a large fortune and had intended to buy an estate, in order to become landed gentry. We also learn that Charles has been "of age" for less than two years, making him 22. Therefore, the father died when he was younger than that.

@Tasha9315

Жыл бұрын

@@lisakilmer2667 Thanks! I misunderstood what you meant by quite young. I thought you meant children. I meant they could have been teens or even young adults around 20 in the case of Bingley and his older sister.

I have heard it said that Pride and Prejudice could be the perfect novel. Dear Doctor Cox, after following your wonderful lecture series, I can see how that may be. Thank you.

This is fascinating stuff - I had completely forgotten - if I ever realised it - that the Bingley fortune came from trade. Yet again, this talk has opened up a whole new dimension - back to the book for me! It's pretty common - today as well as then - that those who are truly well off or upper class are the least snobbish - it's the 'wannabees' who are the most vicious. So we have a lovely Austenesque symmetry going on - 1) rich and gentry (Darcy and De Bourghs), 2) poor and gentry (the Bennets), 3) rich and trade (Bingleys) and 4) poor and trade (Gardiners and Philips). Poor only in the relative sense of course. And within each grouping we have examples of good and bad character, good and bad behaviour. Jane Austen really is the gift that keeps on giving, isn't she?

@emilylewis5373

2 жыл бұрын

exactly. Her books were not about breaking class barriers or anything like that. But sort of an outline/ critique on how to behave.

I’d love a similar look at the characters in Emma.

The irony of Miss Bingley looking down at people who are just like her shows her extreme insecurity and fear. It doesn’t matter how far she’s risen in society, deep down she is terrified someone might think of her as a tradesman’s daughter. Her snobbishness is a way to deflect her true trade origins. Caroline would definitely throw the Darcy name around for entry. I imagine her friends were also on the very fringes of society and think the way she did. They may even befriend her for her link to the Darcys that might elevate their own status. How I wish that Mr. Darcy would have put his gentlemanly manners aside and told her that she also came from trade and that if it wasn’t for Bingley’s association with him, they would never have been accepted by the gentry. She was in desperate need of a good set down. My question, does the moment Bingley purchases his land change his class? Will the gentry easily accept him as one of them?

@XtreamBrands

2 жыл бұрын

I think that the tinge of "trade" might follow him until the next generation

@sharo8760

2 жыл бұрын

I'm no expert but I'm seconding the previous reply. Reminds me of the tradesman in Emma (haven't read it in a while but in the movie Emma, along with some others, sneer at the "new money").

@seto749

2 жыл бұрын

@@sharo8760 Yes; Mrs Elton derides the Tupmans as upstarts, only four years resident in the neighbourhood while being fairly certain that her brother-in-law's father had completed the purchase of Maple Grove before his death.

@matthewconnolly8628

2 жыл бұрын

You forget that all of this class concept is bullshit, no one has a godgiven right to be elevated over another, Miss Bingley has just as much as right to pretend to be superior as any Darcy

@crucialtaunt5717

2 жыл бұрын

@@matthewconnolly8628 If the concept of class is bullshit then the Bingley sisters are still in the wrong because no one would have the right to pretend superiority at all.

A valuable look at class, because I'm sure most of us forget how the Bingleys actually come from a lower class than the Bennets.

@shinjineesen400

Жыл бұрын

Lower class but richer (four to five thousand a year for Mr Bingley, and twenty thousand for each daughter). Much better educated and therefore with greater marital aspirations. Caroline Bingley's aspirations were too high but her sister Louisa married a gentleman albeit one of little merit.

Most men in Darcy’s position would not have wanted to marry Elizabeth after Lydia’s disgrace. I think the disadvantages of Elizabeth’s relations’ vulgar behavior (in addition to slightly lowering her social status) might seem trivial to us, but it was important for all social classes to at least maintain, if not improve, the social standing of their future children. People in every class sought to marry their equals, if not superiors, in class or fortune. The standing of the family was much more important than it is now, anything that might degrade it was carefully considered, and weighed against the strength of the emotional attachment or attraction to a particular individual. Love wasn’t everything in marriage until very recently. Even peasants took material standing, at least, into consideration in marriage, all parents, naturally, want better lives for their children than their own.

@chrisleblanc5712

2 жыл бұрын

Much like Lady Catherine pointed out, even though Elizabeth is the daughter of a gentleman, and therefore a social equal to Mr. Darcy, it was the rest of her relations that made her less of an equal. Even before Lydia's elopement, Mrs. Bennett's brothers being a lawyer and a tradesman, and not gentlemen themselves, would lower her status. Then Lydia eloping would lower her status. Something specific to Mr. Darcy is that Lydia's husband is the son of the steward of Mr. Darcy's father. So Mrs. Bennett not being the daughter of a gentleman is one mark. Mrs. Bennett's brothers being a lawyer and a tradesman is one, or even two, marks. Lydia's elopement is a mark on it's own, and the nature (patched-up) of it possibly being another mark. So, she is down 3 marks even before you consider the vulgarity of Mrs. Phillips, or the whole Lydia-thing. Honestly, those first three would make it difficult for most gentlemen to consider any of the Bennett sisters. That adds to why Mrs. Bennett was so enthusiastic about Mr. Bingley, other than the rich part, since he wasn't a gentlemen, it would make it much easier for him to overlook any negatives about the situation, and just see the daughter of a gentleman.

So interesting. Makes such a difference having this explained. Never realized the Bingleys weren't of the Gentry. No wonder the sisters spoke so ill of one of Jane's Uncles being in Trade. They despised their own background.

Just found these and just wished they were around when I studied this book for O-Grade back in the 1980s

What a clear and thorough dissection of the English class system! It makes Austen's novels all the more remarkable for marshaling our sympathies or dislikes in the proper way using only her prose. Admirable!

In the 40’s my cousin and I ( who were close friends) and discussed most subjects, spent lots of time discussing our particular class status. Her father was Town Clerk of the small Derbyshire town where we lived and my father was a Captain in the army. I minded more than my cousin because I half thought ( secretly) that maybe I was of lesser class! Yet my mother and her father were siblings and we both went to the local Grammar School. Both parents had climbed quite a long way upwards from their natal home, yet I was more concerned about my own social position. Thank you for your interesting article which I read with pleasure,.J.

What an absolutely excellent video lecture. I didn't understand the nuances of the class system at that time and place till you pointed it out. I assumed Mr Bingley and Mr Darcy were both of the gentry ...just that Mr Bingley didn't have as much money as Mr Darcy. This new insight makes me even more in awe of Jane Austen's storytelling ability.

By their attitudes, I truly thought that the Bennets were of a lower class than the Bingleys. Great video!!

@jamessergeant2136

2 жыл бұрын

Mrs Bennett was impressed by their money, but everyone was impressed by how friendly Mr Bingley was with everyone, for example at the first ball.

Wow. I've always wondered what was that made miss Bingley felt like she was better than Bennets, when mister Bennet was a gentleman. I've never found an answer till today. Thank you!

Was Caroline Bingley the first frenemy in English literature?

@beastshawnee

2 жыл бұрын

You know she had RBF!!!

@sounsure9108

2 жыл бұрын

There is Lucy in sense & sensibility

@nyangweso

2 жыл бұрын

True. And there also was Mrs Elton in Emma. Frenemy to Jane Fairfax.

I'm trying to imagine how much more I would have got from studying literature 50-odd years ago if I had had resources like these. Great stuff.

absolutely love how you explained the class system. I love English classic literature and your channel clears so many elements of English society depicted in those time. I remember how in north and South( Gaskell) , how Margret viewed Mr Thornton vice versa. How he was a tradesman ( manufacturer ) and she a vicar's daughter ( poor but higher in class) Thank you !

I must admit I never noticed that the Bingleys' wealth came from trade. I had thought that Caroline's rudeness when visiting Jane at the Gardiners' was because she wanted to discourage Jane from thinking of Mr Bingley. This was really interesting. Thank you!

Pride and Prejudice has been one of my favorite books for years. I first read it in college some sixty years ago, and have read it many times since. I have lost count of the number of times I have listened to the audiobook of it. The trouble with knowing it so well is that I’ve come to have the (rather stupid and conceited) idea that I know everything about it that there is to know! One of the reasons that I love your various videos on it is that I learn so many things from them that help me understand it better, and appreciate Jane Austen even more. Thank you for your hard work and research to make these (and all) videos! I always look forward to them.

Thank you for in-depth analysis of this, my favourite book and author. A real treat. I covered this book in English Literature classes at Grammar School in 1962/63. I think that back then we (in UK) were more aware of class structure than people are now. It used to be immediately apparent that Caroline Bingley was a total social climbing snob. Reading the comments, it is very interesting to try and decide the writers' nationality and age bracket.

Yay I always love when you analyse Jane Austen! You always enlighten me as to how much of a genius she really was!

This was fascinating! I've always wanted to hear Austen's class structure broken down like this! I understand the story and Darcy's character so much better now. I love this series.

Re: younger sons joining the Clergy, The more I learn about how the Church of England functioned, the more I understand how the modern British ended up with such a dim view of organized religion when compared to Americans.

Hearing you talk about pride and prejudice is so much fun and relaxing 💕

Thanks for clarifying curious questions I had about the social context of P and P, and for giving me even more reasons to admire Mr. Darcy-really a much more humble man than we believed his character to be.

This video has been so helpful for understanding the class distinctions between the characters. I had always assumed the Bingleys were on par with the Darcys in terms of class, even though, as you point out, the text provides enough information to show they are not. Thank you for your clarifying and enriching analysis!

I love these videos!! I’m learning so much! I had no idea the complexities involved in Jane Austin’s books. While I understood enough to “get the gist” of the message, I had no idea just how hypocritical Caroline and Mrs. Hurst were being! I didn’t really understand classes or the difference between trade income and landed gentry. Top notch! Very good video!!

The differences in how the different social classes were seen at this time is fascinating. I was born and raised in Finland, and at the time that Austen was writing, the clergy certainly fell into the higher status group along with the nobility. When I was younger, I was really confused by the concept of baronets, as someone inheriting a title, but not being part of the nobility was very strange and foreign to me.

@MR2spyder100

2 жыл бұрын

I descend from Finns who were serfs in Finland, but became more highly skilled workers in the US. They held my husband, a pastor, in very high esteem, but he family were even more blue collar than mine!

@laulutar

2 жыл бұрын

@@MR2spyder100 I can easily imagine that. My own grandparents (born in 1907, 1925 and 1926) still held members of the clergy in high esteem. It was also one of the few ways which would allow the children of tradespeople, peasant farmers or the bourgeoisie to ascend into the higher ranking classes.

Mr Gardiner also at a slightly greater distance from Lydia, was also able to discuss the elopement problems more calmly than her frantic father. And the brief conversations between Mr Gardiner and Darcy at Pemberley meant Darcy would know him better than he knew Mr Bennet.

Dr. Cox, thank you so much for your video on the Bingley's and their position in society. I also thought that the character of Colonel FItzwilliam adds information to their status when he refers to Bingley as a " gentleman like" indicating he has the qualities of being one without being one.

I also got the impression that Mr Darcy thought Mr Bennett rather weak in handling his home situation, and probably respected Mr Gardner’s ability to take care of things

I never realized the difference between the Bingleys and the Darcys. This add another level to this fantastic book! Thank you! (P.S. the info on the noble forst and last names was helpful too!! Thank you again!)

I can’t believe that after my years reading romance novels I never picked up on Mr. Darcy’s MR. status!! That estate really does all the talking!

Stunning as always. I literally couldn't say how many times I have read this book and still you point out new things to me in every video. More! I'm like jelly after every one! 🤩

So fascinating! THANK YOU for this. It motivates me to start reading all 6 of the novels again, in English. I have read and re-read them before in Hungarian but now I actually wonder how much have been lost with translation. And don't get me wrong - translators have always done an outstanding job translating classic literature into Hungarian (even Shakespeare's sonets and they rhyme!) but there are those fine details (or digs) from Austen that couldn't have been all translated due to the nature of the language. Again, fascinating! Also - I'm actually learning from you and I wish you were my professor back in uni!

Love your work!! The explanation of cheapside is soooo enlightening!!! I always thought of it in the modern sense of the word cheap so it always puzzled me!! So eye opening!! I think I'll have to re-read these novels again with fresh new insight!!!! 😍😍😍

I can't help but notice the class system parallel to the rules and ranks of the ballroom dances -- choosing partners, reeling, switching, and missteps -- where all the classes are present but your obvious classlessnesses are on full display. I feel Austen highlighted the mirroring and juxtapositions of wealth and class in each character; also, their blind spots, intent or self-realization through dance culture. Dancing then was very structured yet seemed to be tempting fate with a chance to level up with a connection or down with social faux pas, blurring that system class boundary. I found it to be a snapshot within the overall theme.

This has never occurred to me! As always thank you for your wonderful analysis; each video of yours opens my eyes to these beloved novels in new ways.

This was so good. This may be one of my favorite topics you’ve done so far!

It seems to me that the children of Mr. Gardiner, if Mr. Gardiner's business continued to grow and to do well, would be on the level of the Bingleys in adulthood. By reason of the explanation of how the Bingley's acquired their position in society.

@emilylewis5373

2 жыл бұрын

possibly, if they were super smart with money (lawyer is a little harder to gain wealth), however lawyer was seen as a better job than just tradesman.

I know you are busy so I am revisiting your videos. So well done!

One of my faves of yours so far. So informative and really gave a new light to so much of the interaction in the novel!

Even though I was familiar with the class structure this provided such a thorough explanation and analysis for Pride and Prejudice. The hypocrisy of the Bingley sisters is really in your face but Mr. Darcy's inclinations are much less obvious. I enjoyed this so much!

I had never clued into the class status of the Bingleys and made the connection to Caroline's nastiness. I should remember from my own experience in school that it was the girls on the second rung of the ladder who were the meanest and the biggest gossips. They were one run away from the top and dying to get there. Couldn't one of the Bennetts have easily cut Caroline down to size by a reference to her father's being in trade?

@elizabethgrosvenor153

2 жыл бұрын

Lydia might have, if she'd known them more closely (I don't recall them ever speaking directly), but even then she'd only do it from thoughtlessness so it would be accidental in that sense, and she would be impervious to it. Even with a few years' maturity, I can't see Lydia caring enough about it to be malicious. Jane may have noticed but would not have said it. Elizabeth might have if she'd been really riled, but the occasion didn't come up, and she also would have held her tongue for Jane's sake. Mary would have thought it beneath her to care about such things, and Kitty wasn't sharp enough to notice. If Kitty and Elizabeth were closest in age and companionship, further away from lovable Jane, Kitty might have picked it up from Elizabeth and said it then, maybe. I could see her being deliberately vicious if she chose. But she's the only one, I think, and as I said, by herself I don't think she's sharp enough.

@clemdane

2 жыл бұрын

@@elizabethgrosvenor153 Thank you so much! That makes perfect sense. I'd have loved to have known Caroline's reaction if anyone had mentioned it, though clearly there was no way for this to arise.

@mb8787

2 жыл бұрын

The Bennett sisters were on the the verge of becoming homeless, should they be unmarried when their father died, because of the rule that only males could inherit the estate of their father, and mr Collins would most likely (especially had he not married Charlotte) turn them out, because they would not be able to pay him enough to rent it from him. So standing on this social quag-mire they really had not much of a standing to kick up the butts of the all-but-gentrified Bingleys, that were they superiors in wealth and thus social position, especially since mrs Hurst is well married (already), and they are closely associated with Darcy.

@jamessergeant2136

2 жыл бұрын

It probably helped the Bingley sisters that their father was dead, so they could maintain some mystery about their background.

I've listened to many of your videos and love them so much. Its like being in a college course! I think this video was the best yet! Thanks Dr. OC!

Thank you for making this fabulous video and allowing me to see the characters in Pride and Prejudice in a new light. I am glad that I found your channel and excited to be watching your other videos, too.Thanks from Japan 😊

This was wonderful and refreshing. I never realized that the Bingleys were a product of Trade.

@cminmd0041

2 жыл бұрын

I always thought the "up north" comment combined with "overseeing his warehouses" was that the Bingley's owned textile mills.

Never thought I'd willingly sit through a lecture... but you somehow make it very interesting and I can't click away hahaha. Love your video's so much! It really helps me understand the context better when reading Austen's novels.

This channel is so fun. Love it!

What a great video! It gave me such a different perspective on the kind of messages Austen was sending about the characters

Well done, Dr Cox. Concise, excellent, and entertaining! Well reasoned, and well presented. Thank you!

You bring up so many Good points, I really enjoy watching your videos.

I found this discussion so helpful to my understanding of the Bingley sisters. Thank you!

A fascinating and extremely lucid analysis. Thank you. I loved Austen's works when we studied them at school. Now, as an adult I find more layers every time I re-read them.

These videos are fantastic! I've read Pride and Prejudice many times, but when I next read it I'll have a greater insight into it. I look forward to your analysis of other classics too.

I’m struck by how quickly incomes are known around town-how did they know? And was it truly socially acceptable to discuss it so openly? And was the fortune of each young lady also generally known?

@norarivkis2513

6 ай бұрын

Absolutely, ladies' fortunes were just as generally known. Anyone keeping their eye on the local marriage market would know to a T what every woman brought in dowry, what every man owned in income, and which were 'worthy' of which. Remember the beginning of Mansfield Park, when it says that Lady Bertram married into a status and fortune much greater than her fortune could have qualified for? Anyone who knew them even casually would have been able to do that reckoning, not just because they knew both sides' wealth, but because they all had a very similar view of what levels of money deserved what.

I have watched this several times and continue to be impressed with your explanation of class and your references to Austen’s skill in her characterizations relative to it. Thank you.