Peter Hitchens’ response to Alex stunned me. I have been watching Alex since he was a baby you-tuber, and the accusations and judgements hurled by Hitchens were so foreign to my perception of Alex, that I felt nothing but searing, angry pity for Hitchens. It was a pathetic display.

@subcitizen2012

4 ай бұрын

Pete's sad state has been a lifetime of patheticness, living in shadow of his brothers coat tails.

@TerryStewart32

4 ай бұрын

It’s obvious that Peter Hitchens felt deflated as his inferior complex was surfacing in been intellectually dwarfed by a man who was young enough to be his grandson.

@jamiefrostick4059

4 ай бұрын

I didn't read it quite in those terms. If anyone knows anything about Peter Hitchens he is absolutely convinced that legalising drugs like cannabis would be a bad idea. He is extremely passionate about his belief that cannabis is extremely harmful, particularly to young developing brains in teenagers for example and nothing will change his mind on that. He entertained the debate about this subject but his frustration comes from his passionate belief that this is a bad idea. He gets very angry with people who in his mind promote the legalisation of drugs like cannabis to the point of despising that person. I understand where Alex was coming from but no one is going to change Peter Hitchens mind on this subject and I don't think they should have debated this subject in the first place as Peter was showing early signs of where this was going. He will not be rational on this subject because he is clearly too emotionally involved in this subject.

@biggerissues6085

4 ай бұрын

​@@jamiefrostick4059I'm inclined to agree with you. I think the drugs-legalisation argument has long since lost value, in terms of a public debate. Hitchens is also correct, in my opinion, regarding the war on drugs, in that the UK has NEVER had a war on drugs. For personal use purposes, drugs have never truly been illegal in the UK and I do feel that the long-term effects are largely sniggered at by 'recreational' consumers. There was clearly no advance discussion of what could and couldn't be tabled, but i don't think Hitchens handled his objections anywhere near as well as he could have.

@petrichor649

4 ай бұрын

Hitchins is so puffed up with his arrogant rightness, he's lost sight of the fact that he is a tedious bigot.

Alex is the model of what atheists should seek. Not into hyperbole, doesn't strawman, doesn't fall for traps, doesn't antagonize, and maintains a calm and comforting demeanor. Seth on the other hand, committed a few in this very interview.

@rolandotoledano2996

4 ай бұрын

Seth is one of those atheists that would rather use rhetoric than deeply thinking about arguments. He says, I am a thinking atheist. Really?

@alteredendeavor

4 ай бұрын

@@rolandotoledano2996 seems that way, at least based on how he framed the questions. I have so much respect for how Alex speaks and handles himself, especially in interviews with people he disagrees with.

@hannotn

4 ай бұрын

Alex is much more a thinker than a polemicist. He seems genuinely interested in considering ideas, even if they might qualify or contradict his own. Seth is much more focused on as assault on ideas he doesn't agree with and it seems, the people promulgating those ideas. It didn't really reflect well on him that he seemed to want to nudge Alex into badmouthing Shapiro. I have no time for Shapiro either, but I like Alex's dignity and aversion to being drawn into making it personal.

@YuVen3487

4 ай бұрын

​@@hannotn I picked up on that too and I was only aware of Alex before this interview, I did notice the "collar adjusting" after Alex didn't bite and said that Shapiro was reasonable and respectable. I'm no real fan of Shapiro but I do recognise that he is cordial and respectable if he knows beforehand that a debate will be done in good faith.

@johnwheeler3071

4 ай бұрын

Sam Harris, Douglas Murray or Konstantine Kissin are more political and have no problem lying for what they perceive to be for the better good. Whereas Alex is less political and says it as he sees it even if that makes it difficult to defend his own point of view. I hope he stays honest to himself and doesn't change so he can climb the ladder of the intellectual elite.

Alex and Seth together!? My morning coffee is going to be extra awesome today 🎉

@michaelburk9171

4 ай бұрын

Agreed.

@familiarstranger9617

4 ай бұрын

Pure 1st world level of excitement I've seen

Alex is today's prize to the atheistic community; intelligent, articulate, courteous, humanistic and friendly

@cerealdude890

4 ай бұрын

Also very deeply educated about the other side of aisle.

@TerryStewart32

4 ай бұрын

He is encouraging and a man who values the seriousness of thinking

@EpicLemonMusic

4 ай бұрын

I love Alex, but would also argue he leaves a-lot to be desired as a skeptic. This is why we need all the characters, Sorry by Hitchens, Harris, and Dennet are just leagues above better debaters, they have/d a wider birth of Knowledge and were better at shutting down conservatives without pandering to their audiences. We also need the true scientific understanding of Dawkins and Krauss, alex lacks. Lastly we need the Tysons, OConnors. And like who offer their muted but empathetic tone and public pandering to bridge the gaps.

@sandersson2813

4 ай бұрын

There is no "atheist" community just as there's no "gay community" or "religious community" The vast majority of people in Northern Europe are atheist, doesn't make us a community.

@EpicLemonMusic

4 ай бұрын

@@sandersson2813 check your facts my friend, it is sadly not so. The vast Majority is a huge stretch, even if it is true in reality, polls sadly say different. Also sadly those countries have less people than most cities in the Us in their entire country.

I'm not sure what the perception is outside the UK, but there are many fellow Brits, especially here in Scotland, who aren't supporters of the monarchy. In fact, the last two opinion polls show fewer than half of Brits support the monarchy continuing. Are we close to abolishing it? Not quite yet. But we're approaching a tipping point. Just one third of those under 25 support it. In 2012, that figure was 52%. In Scotland, it's already down to a third who support it.

@littlebitofhope1489

4 ай бұрын

I wonder if they are thinking that Charles is doing damage, and that William may be more palatable to the British people? I just get the feeling that Charles won't be reigning long. I'm not in Britain, so I am assuming that William is more popular than Charles, although Harry seems more like Diana even if William looks more like her. Its just a thought.

@Imperial-Socialist

4 ай бұрын

Canadian here, never cared much for the Monarchy. Chuffed about the Commonwealth, not so big on rich inbreds.

@pansepot1490

4 ай бұрын

The grim reaper in action. 😅 it’s not so much people changing opinions rather older monarchists dying and not being replaced by new ones.

@HGWells1

4 ай бұрын

Tell that to Rangers fans

@oliverthompson9922

4 ай бұрын

I agree, lots of us don't support the monarchy, but I think most of us just don't care enough to do anything about it

"... strange women, lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government ... farcical aquatic ceremony ... some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar ..." Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

I think Hitchens was just rattled that this young upstart had the nerve to actually engage with him rather than just worship at his feet.

@forrestgossett

4 ай бұрын

That was possibly the weirdest thing I’ve ever seen on O’Connor’s podcast. Frankly, Peter Hitchens seemed so full of himself, I quit caring about his ideas, which, on first blush, seemed worth listening to and debated. But only he was right…..too bad for him because whatever his message, he lost me forever. I’m glad Alex let it play out and showed the whole thing.

@phat_dike

4 ай бұрын

Alex is a pretentious posh boy. He doesn't say anything especially insightful

@macroman52

4 ай бұрын

Peter Hitches is just annoyed that he has laid down the law on drugs and hardly anyone agrees with him, and he is sick and tired of people not agreeing with him, given that Hitchens is sure he is 100% right. Moses probably felt the same when he (Moses) came down from the mountain.

@annwilliams6438

4 ай бұрын

Spot on!

@subcitizen2012

4 ай бұрын

Nah, Pete knew what he was in for, or should have, at least enough to know he wasn't going to be getting any feet kissing.

Thinking Atheist and Cosmic Skeptic! Seth and Alex. Wow, I've been subbed to you both from your beginnings. I think Alex was 17. Excellent. 👍💙💙💙🥰✌

@sandersson2813

4 ай бұрын

Time they dropped silly superhero pseudonyms.

Truly an excellent interview - Alex’s want and capacity to stay on points of evidence rather than talk for entertainment value is refreshing.

@Csio12

3 ай бұрын

And it must be tempting given his irish ancestry so a good sense of humour

I like how you conduct the interview, you let Alex talk as much as needed, lead from one point to the next, don't interrupt, but make yourself present. I wish more podcasts that do interviews were like you, as it is utterly frustrating when there are interesting people and the podcaster won't let them speak.

@DrewTrox

4 ай бұрын

Seth is the best at this. I love noting all the moments when he expertly steers the conversations.

@user-gl5dq2dg1j

4 ай бұрын

It is an old style of interviewing that was rarely used and is sadly even rarer today. But it lead to many great conversations. Great when a host would have only 1-3 guests in an hour instead of half an hour of shtick and then 3 or 4 guests in maybe 15 minutes.

Another great interview. I'm a big fan of you and your guest.

Never come across this channel before but that guy's voice is liquid butter

So Ben believes that the creator of the universe who could speak a word and destroy everything would concede to humans when it comes to slavery? The god that drowned the world for unknown reasons would be like "Meh ok" if it gave a commandment to abolish slavery and humans refused. It couldn't be perhaps that the humans that wanted and benefitted from slavery wrote that their god was ok with slavery.

@JGM0JGM

4 ай бұрын

Unfortunately, this is not Ben's own point. It is a very common excuse apologists trot out when they have their back against the wall... which is a position they almost always hold since religious critique cannot be tortured or killed for asking questions...

@evidencebased1

4 ай бұрын

Well, it might just be that the two previous times God commanded humans, the Garden of Eden and Noah’s Ark, things ended up poorly. So this time with slavery he said to himself, “give them time and they’ll work this out for themselves”. Of course, this begs the question of what we need God for anyway.

@DavidSmith-vr1nb

4 ай бұрын

​@@KikiKiki273 That's not really the gotcha you might think it is. I have looked at some parts and it seems to be rife with all the same problems the Bible has, and a few more besides.

@baishihua

4 ай бұрын

The issue is they made their God infallible, so every time a flaw like this is pointed out they have no choice but to go to extreme length to justify it because God's plan has to be the maximumly good, most optimised plan ever. Some other comment has mentioned that it would have been a better narrative if Satan is the one who's running the show and God is the underdog who is fighting back with our support.

@user-gl5dq2dg1j

4 ай бұрын

@@JGM0JGM In all fairness, has benji ever had an original thought, or any other authoritarian apologist?

Excellent discussion!

Austria has abolished Monarchy 100 years ago. Habsburgs positive effect on tourism is alive and well

Great interview!

It's slightly easier on the ear to listen to Shapiro on 0.75 speed.

@breadfan7433

4 ай бұрын

But it's significantly funnier to listen to him at 2x speed. Also, why would anyone prolong their own torture by 33%?

@pdcdesign9632

4 ай бұрын

Lower the base tone settings on your speaker too.😮

@pllpsy665

4 ай бұрын

It's much easier on mental health to not ever listen to Shapiro at all. Hard to avoid though.

@michaelburk9171

4 ай бұрын

I call Bens shtick the "Shapiro Sprint" ala Gish Gallop

@akaluke1

4 ай бұрын

At .25x he’s hilarious.

I had never heard of Peter Hitchens, and I think I'll forget I've heard about him here.

@carpathianhermit7228

4 ай бұрын

His brothers better but he's dead

@subcitizen2012

4 ай бұрын

Lol yes, and you're lucky.

@jsmit9484

4 ай бұрын

I complety agree, but I do want to suggest you to watch the debate he had with his brother Christopher. It's quite amusing 😅

@user-gl5dq2dg1j

4 ай бұрын

@@jsmit9484 I'll have to do that! I've wondered what their family dynamics must have been as their world view seems to be 180 degrees on things.

Bill Maher made a great point about the monarchy, when pro-monarchy idiots say that tourists wouldn't come with no monarch or royal family, Bill pointed out, Britain would still have all the royal palaces and historic venues for people to see, like France do. You don't need a monarchy to have big royal landmarks to see.

wow, two of my favorites!

Thank you both!

Miss Christopher Hitchens.  Shout Out to KZread for Hitchens videos.

I wish Peter HItchens had asked me if I had read any of his books (as he asked Alex O'Connor) and I would have replied, no, but I read your brother's.

Two of my favorite folks. Nicely done. TY!

AWESOME interview! Hope Seth and Alex will broadcast again soon!!

There is no place for a Monarchy in a Democracy. Get rid of it. From Belgium.

@Jeremy0509

4 ай бұрын

Tell that to a Trump worshipping Maga republican.

@finnhoydal2028

4 ай бұрын

Here, here from Norway

@REDPUMPERNICKEL

4 ай бұрын

Neither is there a place for a state religion in a Democracy, especially one that is supported by everyone's taxes regardless of anyone's beliefs.

@MrCanis4

4 ай бұрын

@@REDPUMPERNICKEL 100% agree. And no tax money to any religion whatsoever.

@SagaciousFrank

4 ай бұрын

There is, actually. I don't especially like many people in the Royal Family, but I'd rather have King Charles warts and all than the sorry likes of President Blair/Brown/Cameron/Johnson/Sunak etc. Getting rid of a monarchy doesn't ensure prosperity or freedom, quite the opposite. And democracy is no guarantor of freedom or prosperity, either. Many people here are sorry that the Hereditary Peers of The House of Lords were abolished. The second chamber is far worse and less effective since then.

Loved this interview 😊

Claiming that God gives us OBJECTIVE morality WOULD be a good argument, IF believers could AGREE on what God's morality is. Yet Jews, Muslims, Christians, etc. can't agree on ANYTHING that's important. God's morality is nothing more than subjective human morality.

@hairychris444

4 ай бұрын

@@simonmacconmidhe9489 Of course not, but you'd only need to argue against a single position at that point. There being disagreement amongst religions is kinda evidence against them as is!

@BobDingus-bh3pd

4 ай бұрын

The point is that it’s not futile to search for the centralizing morality and purpose of existence. To do what you intuit is right against all your personal incentives to be self interested. If there isn’t a God then that search would appear to be useless. My motivation might as well be to just satisfy my biological impulses. Because there is nothing more than material biology. I fluctuate around theist/deist/agnostic whatever you want to call it. But if I was certain there was no god I could be nothing other than a hard atheist like Nietzsche. Will to power. Survival of the fittest. You’re born alone and you die alone.

@centaur7607

4 ай бұрын

​@@BobDingus-bh3pd This makes zero sense to me. You gave no reason as to why morality must be tied to a god, other than, if it isn't, you will choose to become a psychopath? I have no idea why you would choose that. If losing belief in a deity would cause someone to choose to harm others selfishly, then that person is severely lacking empathy. I'm an atheist and I have no desire to harm anyone or to take whatever I want at the expense of others. I want to live peacefully, and I wish to see the entire world live in peace and happiness. I want everyone to treat each other with compassion, kindness, and respect. Whatever brings the greatest good for the greatest number of people is a great basis for morality. These desires have nothing to do with any god or supernatural entity. We should strive to reduce suffering and to increase peace, harmony, and well-being among each other. This is the common good. How best to achieve it among all people everywhere is the real puzzle, and it's one that we should always be working to solve.

@BobDingus-bh3pd

4 ай бұрын

@@centaur7607 that’s all well and good but if you’re an atheist I don’t know why you would. You can pretty much do whatever you want within the confines of it being evolutionarily beneficial. According to atheists like Dawkins that’s the only reason we follow conventions of civility anyway. I’m not sure why you would feel an obligation to be empathetic to a material object human or animal. I feel no empathy towards the natural elements. What’s the difference if the elements are simply rearranged into a human? Any ideas of “common good” you feel towards man are just illusions caused by chemical processes.

@ramudon2428

4 ай бұрын

​@@BobDingus-bh3pdDoes it matter if the grounds for the emotions are rooted in a chemical process, as long as they are there? I mean, pain is just some reaction of my brain, but I still take a lot of care not to hurt myself. I'm probably not understanding you properly, maybe you can help me out.

Great episode! Thanks!

For quite awhile, I've felt the same about the "royal family". So Alex is spot on.

@DRayL_

4 ай бұрын

I didn't see the interview....but honestly, I don't see how the 'drug' topic could go for an hour.

Thanks

Love you both!

I don't understand the criticism here of Hitch's "folded arms" schtick. I think the point he was trying to make is that if God is an eternal force in the lives of those on earth, it is unreasonable, or at least strange, to accept that He did nothing about humans for tens of thousands of years, and then suddenly developed an intense interest in everything they did...at least everything they did in certain parts of the earth. I don't see anything untoward about that argument, nor how it undercuts separate arguments about the source of his morality.

@user-gl5dq2dg1j

4 ай бұрын

Then why are there half a dozen major religions still in existence, and dozens (hundreds?) that are documented and countless thousands that went extinct without ever being recorded? Often with conflicting codes of conduct aka morality. Or are there really multiple gods? Or isn't it easier to say that there are no gods and that being a social species we developed or morality over the eons we've existed. Even the other apes have morality that fits their level of society.

This was just awesome

Of course Ben was civil to Alex...1. he's formidable but 2. he's not a woman, trans or a person of colour.

@ericmoyer8538

4 ай бұрын

🎯

@pdcdesign9632

4 ай бұрын

Benny is slowly becoming a grown up chipmunk 🐿 😳

@user-xi2xi7qd3s

4 ай бұрын

Honestly, I think it’s the formidability that was the major concern. Ben will have done his research and seen Alex dismantle established thinkers on his podcast many times over.

@michaelburk9171

4 ай бұрын

That's a good point. With Alex he had to stick to the facts and question Alex asked. He couldn't veer off in to ad hominem attacks or questions about his morals or character.

@margaretjohnson6259

4 ай бұрын

alex also isn't a freshman in college. ben likes 'em dumb

Great discussion

Alex is a top notch philosopher. Learnt a lot from him on how to argue without going in circles, be aware of hidden assumptions etc.

I could and would listen to Seth and Alex for two hours. You two must get together again soon. Every time I have seen Peter Hitchens he is always scowling. A very sad person with issues.

Good interview

Thanks for the assessment on the Hitch-the-lesser monologue

O'Connor is so bright, it's alternately frightening, comforting, and humbling. I don't have a fraction of that intellect now at age 71 so can't imagine how stupid I was at his age. Great interview. Peter Hitchens really fumbled that one!

great interview. Alex reminds me quite a bit of Christopher Hitchens. didn't agree with everything Hitch, but when it came to talking common sense in a very astute, intelligent and entertaining way Hitchens would often deliver... and then some. Alex is doing the very same thing here. fabulous way with words

Hitchens has lost his one man war on marijuana 😂😂 💚💚

@subcitizen2012

4 ай бұрын

He needs to take a puff and chill TF out lol

28:20 - Oxford debate 31:37 - Peter Hitchens

@AS.02

Күн бұрын

hero

I have never once thought of visiting England on the basis of seeing the Royal accoutrements or structures. It would be a stop to make, sure, but I would much rather spend that time in a London cafe, I think.

@cmpc724

4 ай бұрын

The Palace of Versailles is the most visited regal landmark in the world - despite the French royal family having their heads chopped off haha. I don’t think we need the actual existence of a royal family for “tourism” 😂

@starpenta

4 ай бұрын

I'm an ex-Christian atheist but I would love to see the cathedrals...but I definitely would be going to pubs, too. (A few authors' houses too and some woodlands)

The idea that god couldn't tell people to stop doing stuff because it was common at the time and too hard for them to just quit🙄 is absurd. Espcially when god spent the rest of the bible visitng punishment on people for sinning, killing, and destroying whole communities.

@littlebitofhope1489

4 ай бұрын

He couldn't even stop them after he drowned them all. I mean really.

@imverydeadd

4 ай бұрын

True god fails to touch this land else the quantum-ness would make him cease to be. It is as hard for God to reach you as it is for you to reach him-yet he will completely perish when he reaches this world of deliberation. You will not. So God is screaming into you through unconscious messages to look his way. It's only a matter of who listens

@sandersson2813

4 ай бұрын

Exactly, apparently god did have the time to tell people not to mix fabric or eat shellfish but couldn't tell them that slavery was wrong.

@imverydeadd

4 ай бұрын

@@sandersson2813 can you not just criticize the bible all and God's descriptions along with God itself?

@sandersson2813

4 ай бұрын

@@imverydeadd The god of the Bible is a monster and the bible is demonstrably untrue, unreliable and immoral. There is no justification for believing it, following it, or thinking it has any relevance to any time since about 100AD. It is just a fairy tale and there is nothing good done by such a belief that can't be done without it.

Great interview and I mightily enjoyed your reading of Dr Bowen's "Did the Old Testament Endorse Slavery" expanded edition with all the new material about Near-eastern law codes. I do think it's an invaluable work on a topic important in debates about Abrahamist divine command ethics and I like how you connected it to such debates where Abrahamists like to claim their god has the best morals while either not understanding how bad their footing is or hoping critics will fall for dishonest apologetic sophistry. I look forward to exploring more of your work.

What a fire collab. Instant classic

And keep it up dudes👌👆👍

This interview wasn’t long enough!

So nice to see Alex on your show, I discovered Alex via the comments section of Peter's & Christopher's debate. Checked out his podcast with Peter and I was impressed with Alex's candor and professionalism. Good food for thought gets me through my long boring winter days in NW MT. LOL small town MT doesn't offer much intellectual stimulation.

The king is the king of England AND Scotland and has to swear a different oath and be accepted as the King of Scots. However not one English monarch has sworn the actual oath Scottish kings took. That oath declares all Scot’s as sovereign and the monarch a servant of the people, something English monarchs have refused to swear to.

I am a Hitchens devoteė. He was intuitive enough to know these topics and be a dirge of pomposity. And this use humor to couch his arguments, I thought made them palatable to the general audience. So many ‘ experts and theologians ‘ are serious, dry, they lose the audience even with a valid stance or comment. This was one of his genius attributes which made him acceptable to audiences. These debates can be so deep and esoteric and strict it was his way of braking through. It did not minimize his arguments for me. But softened the blow if you will.

@user-ez3sj8hm8i

4 ай бұрын

You must be talking about Christopher, not Peter.

@cmpc724

4 ай бұрын

Considering Alex was 12 y/o when Christopher Hitchens died, he’s talking about Peter lol

@ramudon2428

4 ай бұрын

​@@cmpc724No, he was calling Christopher Hitchens a sophist in the segment the post here is drawing from, having seen Hitchens through KZread videos and the likes as a kid presumably. He also talked about Peter later here, of course.

@cmpc724

4 ай бұрын

@@ramudon2428 Yeah I realised that after watching, my bad! Jumped the gun.

@TheMargarita1948

4 ай бұрын

@@cmpc724 Do you know it is easy to delete your comment? I’m not telling you to. But I have done so many times to save myself embarrassment.

We are not made in the image of God. God is made in the image of humans.

Peter HItchens is a conservative and conservatives in the US are the group (and Republicans) most opposed to drug legalization. This is why elections matter

@user-gl5dq2dg1j

4 ай бұрын

Yes it is. In the US they are attempting to eliminate the constitution and role things back to the 1620's. If you don't believe me look at the legal arguments used to overturn Roe v. Wade.

Alex with Peter Hitchens, a lesson in composure.

Interesting video

Alex O’ Connor is awesome!

@phat_dike

4 ай бұрын

He's a pretentious posh boy

wow. peter hitchens is nothing like his brother. i think both are/were narcissists, but christopher never ran away from a discussion and was able to make decent arguments.

Shapiro is usually different when he interacts with people face to face than what you see on the show.....rather you like him or not, if you respect him in a conversation he will generally respect you. If you get aggressive with him, he gets aggressive back. He's had conversations like this with Bill Maher and Joe Rogan. Personally my issues with Shapiro is that he's your typical war-loving social conservative. I haven't seen Alex in awhile so this was cool to see. Good interview!

@loganleatherman7647

3 ай бұрын

Shapiro’s BBC interview where he had a total meltdown and left in the middle of it says otherwise

I’m grateful to Peter Hitchens because it’s how I found Alex :-) I agree with Ben Shapiro re Kathleen Kennedy. He’s someone I don’t agree with on most things but find him strangely likeable.

@user-gl5dq2dg1j

4 ай бұрын

You are more charitable to shaprio than I am. I find him to be part of the problem with the right in the US. I find him to be a smug little boy who wants to drag the US back to the 19/18/1650's.

peter hitchens is the kind of guy that writes a 2 parahraph post about why he's leaving a facebook group before he clicks the "unfollow" button.

God can tell people not to fuck without a license but telling them not to own other people is more than they could handle?

Monarchies are a fascinating thing in modern age. In the way back then, kings could be conquered by other powerful vassals who could claim the throne. It was chaos. Somehow this archaic ruling system have slowly negotiated to still be relevant. It feels like the same way the church of England has convinced people that you don't really have to believe in God to be a member of it. The church and the king had all the power over people. Now the people don't want them to disappear into history.

@user-gl5dq2dg1j

4 ай бұрын

They weren't supposed to do it, legally, but when might makes right and the king dies either on the battlefield or locked away in a tower who's going to say much out loud?

I'm not above enjoying some drama, and that Hitchins interview was baffling but also quite amusing

I grew up up in the UK. I now live in Canada. Personally I feel the concept of inherited superiority is a dangerous one for our species.

@leegrant7333

4 ай бұрын

And that's why its more correctly......GOD willing...so no need to sweat over untruths of the concepts such as inherited superiority...

Every time i visited Ingerland not once did it occur to me to want to go visit some monarchs old house. Its utterly unimpressive and uninteresting.

I'm not sure I agree with him on Christopher Hitchens. I always took away that atheist morality is guided by intelligent self interest informed by experience. I also felt he believed nobody can prove their morality is justified or true/false. He was a big believer in you can't hold me to a higher standard than you are held to. On the second point I think he took an opportunity to take a shot at ancient christians but the point was I felt "Why wait?" and "Why not everybody everywhere?"

He sounds almost exactly like Christopher, but he made a total clown of himself in the discussion. What a hoot. "What about alcohol" in this context is not a whataboutism, it's a valid comparison. It's an example of a profoundly impairing substance that anyone can legally get, yet we don't have to check for it every single time a pilot sits down to fly a plane...so why would we have to check for other drugs every single time if they were legal?

A very interesting conversation! I'll be pondering the relationship between drugs and sin. The concept of "sin flattening" popped into my head and I couldn't shake the ridiculousness of some Christians ability to excuse egregious SA in the church, vs. the condemnation for social drug use. Oof. Time for more coffee!

I honestly believe that Peter Hitchens is a very unpleasant individual, very close to others like Ben Shapiro and Denis Prager.

Have the people who claim the US is based on "Judeo-Christian" values noticed that the apparently most important Judeo-Christian commandment (the first) "Thou shall have no other Gods before me" would be an unequivocal violation of first clause of the US Bill of Rights, the first Amendment? btw, they mean "Christian values" but started tacking on "Judeo" (sometime after the 1950s?) as a sort of nod to tolerance.

@Sphere723

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, it's an idea that is hard to hold if you actually study the history of Europe before, say, 1500. The Byzantines where thoroughly and deeply Christian for a thousand years, extinguishing paganism in their realm many centuries before northern Europe. They were not exactly renowned for having an enlightened society. Economic and cultural development passes them by in both the East and West.

@user-gl5dq2dg1j

4 ай бұрын

They treat the constitution like the bible, cherry picking for what they want instead of looking at it as a whole. Of course the bible is such a contradictory mess that could have used an editor sometime in the last 2000 years, but they couldn't even get the christian half to make sense.

Do you have a link to the full Christopher Hitchens debate you played an excerpt of? Thank you!

I wonder if Peter Hitchens has had issues with substance abuse in the past. That was not a normal reaction. Maybe he lost someone as well. Doesn't help talking past each other, but that was just a whiny little conservative reaction. Probably doesn't like anyone questioning his judgement as a matter of course.

@curmudgeon1933

4 ай бұрын

Apparently a quote from Peter Hichens goes something like..."It's frustrating knowing that everybody else is wrong"...which may be an indication of his self-regard, and absolute belief in his own infallibility.

@user-gl5dq2dg1j

4 ай бұрын

I wonder if Christopher would blow smoke into Petey's face? Does anyone know if Christopher indulged in anything other than cigarettes to smoke?

I think when Peter Hitchins threatened physical violence ("I think because I haven't punched you in the face yet shows my restraint" or some such) and kept coming back to say how much he disliked Alex, I think he showed his cards right there. Typical theist, when they get cornered they throw a fit and claim victimhood.

The amazon book: *"Moral Argument: Christian Apologetics Rebuttal"* By: Nicki Stone (atheist writer) explains the how morally bankrupt christian apologetics is

Is there a category error happening in the discussion of ethical emotivism? Doesn’t the question “why is murder wrong” speak to the actual physical consequences of murder rather than whether you personally “like” murder or not?

@ramudon2428

4 ай бұрын

An ethical emotivist wouldn't say murder is wrong as far as I understood it here. It just evokes an "ew" emotion, as Alex said here equating it to a shudder when a cold raindrop hits the back of your neck through your collar, or however he put it.

At about the 25 minute mark, Alex seems a bit unsure about the timeline of abolishing slavery. Parliament abolished the trade only in 1807 and the practice, throughout Britain's colonies, in 1834.

This was their first formal conversation? How is that possible. These are two of my deconstruction heroes.

@leegrant7333

4 ай бұрын

why the quest to deconstruct? just go on with your life.... who are you trying to convince?

@misterdoctor9693

4 ай бұрын

@@leegrant7333 Because once I realized that I was raised to believe a bunch of lies I wanted help making sense of things.

@leegrant7333

4 ай бұрын

@@misterdoctor9693 well you're on the wrong path pal..... this guy is a snake

It will take me a while to get my head around ethical emotivism, but what a great conversation!

@vladutzuli

4 ай бұрын

At the core there isn't all that much to wrap one's head around, it's just basically the view that ethics are not grounded in some fundamental truths that we must uncover, but some fundamental vibes that most of us seem to have.

@oliverthompson9922

4 ай бұрын

@@vladutzuli yeah but isn't that just moral relativism? What's the difference?

@ramudon2428

4 ай бұрын

​@@oliverthompson9922because even relativists have them as Boolean values, whereas an ethical emotivist doesn't. As far as I understood it here? But I don't know much about any of this.

@oliverthompson9922

4 ай бұрын

@@ramudon2428 yeah, so something is either good or bad (objective) Its just good or bad according to me (subjective) Or..Its neither good or bad, just something I like or don't like? (ethical emotivism) something like that, maybe ? 🤔

@oremfrien

4 ай бұрын

@@oliverthompson9922 It's more like "something feels right about this" or "something feels weird about this" -- it's not a claim to the "correctness" of the statement, only your visceral reaction. If it helps, it's the difference between "this makes me happy" and "this is right". The first one says nothing about the rightness of "this", only its emotional effect on me.

In the secular worldview we have more than science of physical things we have autonomy and emotion and feelings for one another too and those make morality

As an Englishman, I grew up fully accepting and liking the monarchy. I am of the last generation that was educated this way. Luckily for my country the following generations (even with the beloved Lizzy) have drifted from this veneration of the monarchy and no longer accept blindly that they have this right because... god. This seems to be linked to some degree to the equal drifting from the need to do god. I was taken (willingly) to church every Sunday, even my Catholic wife didn't do that. We are both atheist because... god seems so irrelevant. We have been since our 20s (1980s). Our children have been able to go on walks (or whatever) on Sundays rather than getting sore asses sat on pews getting told off by some old white dude reading from some ancient dogma. As an aside, they also feel nothing for the monarchy and will never vote Tory.

In regards to that idiot rant about the female director switching from documentaries, a fair reminder that when people heard Peter Jackson was going to direct the Lord of the Rings no one thought that a "horror" director could do it. I can't wait to see her version of star wars.

@KhukuriGod

4 ай бұрын

And I can't wait to see the Star Wars trilogies of Ruin Johnson, Dumb & Dumber (GoT producers), and Patty Jenkins. Oh, wait...

This is horrible to even think, but how much better would this world be if Christopher was missing his brother Peter?

@subcitizen2012

4 ай бұрын

I don't think he'd be missing him is the thing. I seem to recall they weren't on speaking terms outside of that debate. The world would still be bad, but at least we would still have Chris. Speaking for myself at least, that would've been THE single most comforting thing to have over this past decade or so. OR we would've watched him live long enough to become his own villain. I would not have wanted to see a potentially pro Trump, anti vaxx, pro Putin Hitchens.

@Anne--Marie

4 ай бұрын

@@subcitizen2012 Agree

@blatherskite3009

4 ай бұрын

@@subcitizen2012 Hitch was beginning to become worryingly hawkish, no doubt due to being immersed in US culture for so long. In the Q&A after one of his talks he expressed the view that the USA had the right to pre-emptively invade any country that it so much as suspected might present a threat to it in the future. Can't say I agreed with him on that, but he was a joy when he was mauling religion. Which was most of the time :)

@leegrant7333

4 ай бұрын

@@blatherskite3009 unfortunately the dead Hitchens was never that effective, almost infantile

@user-gl5dq2dg1j

4 ай бұрын

@@leegrant7333 Hello you merry ray of sunshine.

Brit here. A lot of us here are anti monarchy.

Fame and fortune act as catnip on we humans. It's embarrassing, when you think about it.

I love his visual transformation from Twink to Philosopher. That is such a goated pipeline, has to be one of my favorites

at 54:48 made me laugh, i know almost certainly that was accidental but still thanks to whoever edited this video hahah

Does Peter Hutchins use alcohol? The world knows Christopher Hutchins drank copiously. I saw a video last week that was about CH arriving at the home of another well-known person who did not permit anyone to bring alcohol into his home. Hutchins had a hissy fit. (I admire Him very much, but less so than I did last week.) So, I have also watched the full video of Alex and PH and saw another quite similar hissy fit. I suggest PH walked out because he needed a drink.

A lot of people take the argument seriously. They just don’t have any rational reason to do so. Just like religion and conservatism.

Didn't watch the Kardashian, nor the Crown.

You're quite right, I think (as a fan) that Hitch would be appalled by the suggestion that he could be in some way beyond reproach

Peter Hitchens: Twice as arrogant, but only half as intelligent as his brother. His outburst was a clear indicator of this fact.

If Peter Hitchens thought becoming mentally ill was a bad thing, he wouldn’t let people listen to him talk 🤷🏾‍♀️

The very concept of royalty turns my stomach. I have been a staunch (little R) republican my entire life, and the concept of inherited political or religious power is abhorent. Thankfully, I've only had to interact with exactly one "noble," an officer in the British Army when I was in Basra as they were preparing to leave Iraq for (hopefully) good. There was no way that earl or whatever achieved his rank through merit. Man screamed of nepotism and nothing else. The sooner the world abandons monarchy, the better.

Based on his own words, Peter Hitchens sounds like a professional victim. Don't take everything personally, Peter. another great interview, Seth

alexs channel links isnt working for me, found him in search

The link to Alex's channel doesn't work

Seems to me if the monarchy should be kept because they are a tourist attraction then they should be treated like a tourist attraction, put them on display and let people buy tickets to see them, like a museum.

@sandersson2813

4 ай бұрын

They aren't a tourist attraction. People don't come because they will see a king or queen. France by far is the most visited country in the world and it's a republic.

@curmudgeon1933

4 ай бұрын

The revenues they receive from their assets should also be taxed at the same rate as any other person. If the income generated is so substantial, the nation as a whole should benefit.

@user-gl5dq2dg1j

4 ай бұрын

Might actually be easier to see some of their residences if they were nothing more than museums. I can understand Whitehall and #10 Downing Street having limited access, but Windsor shouldn't be.

I always found the London Eye to be quite pretty 😅