Momo is so right about AST in a non static environment. People dont understand delayed healing is coming.

I think the only thing I wished was talked about, is the forced healing for Sage and White Mage. Because you have to spend Addersgall to keep up mana, and you want to spend Lilies to use Misery under buffs, you're forced to dump healing even when it's not needed. Or you dump healing on top of any timed healing ability because, well, you have to dump the resources. That's been my big issue with Healer design. Sage just Ixo'd over my Lily + Assize coming up in 3 seconds, great... I still have to use Lily + Assize, but that's now 30K over healing because Sage needs mana and not overcap addersgall. That's what feels the worst to me.

@mercury3344

11 ай бұрын

This happened to me when i was raiding in the first tier, I kept on getting hounded as AST because the SAGE had to heal past all of my delay setups to keep up their mana.

@24hr-Gaming

11 ай бұрын

Overheal is not a real stat. It's only a real problem if you find yourself short on resources. If a raidwide is coming up and the party needs to be mit with Holos and Kerachole or people just need to be a bit topped off and I use Physis does the regen ticks going to waste when they're at full hp matter? No. Just talk to your cohealer about where you're going to assize and they can move things around. But overheal is not a real stat unless you're short on resources. At 90 all the healers have so many ogcd that it's pointless.

@gabrielek5760

11 ай бұрын

this is a pretty common occurrence, a way to battle this is to ask the sage to use their single ogdc heal to keep their mana economy and save ixo for when the whm heals are on cd, and use it when it is needed, this of course needs coordination with your cohealer and its probably not possible most of the time with pf. Like they mentioned, someone will have to sacrifice an gdc heal for that lack of communication

So I’m a pretty new healer and haven’t done a lot of raids yet but here are my thoughts. I have so many oGCD tools that I rarely have to use my GCD heals therefore healing boils down to spamming one or two DPS abilities and throwing out some oGCDs occasionally. This is where it gets boring, it’s basically a really really simple DPS job with a couple extra bits. Healing only gets fun for me when people are messing up so often that I start running low on oGCDs or resources and have to think about recovering. I see three ways to fix this: 1. Limit the number of oGCDs available for healing or mit. Either by making some on the GCD or increasing the cool-down 2. Give us more interesting DPS rotations 3. Less scripted fights

Im glad someone finally said something about the top thing. It kept getting on my nerves because that is not what's wrong with healers, like they're saying it says more about other jobs than the healers

Casual content is feeling worse and worse as a healer as we go. Leveling Roulette is more difficult than Expert, In Expert Roulette's a competent tank can mitigate/heal themselves so much now that I have multiple times realized that while wall to wall pulling the tank would have been completely fine even if I wasn't there.

I have problems with AST as a healer, the card rework since Shadowbringers has single headedly contributed to most of my frustrations with the job. With job design focusing around 2 min burst more and more, having to do the AST 2 minute burst of constantly switching between party members and the boss feels horrible. Have fun targeting a different party members after every GCD while also running around for mechanics and doing healing. There have been multiple times this expansion where 2 minutes for AST has been nothing but a pain. Worth mentioning that the burst also locks us out of using Lightspeed. What used to be a free movement ability is now dedicated purely to making the 2 minute burst workable, rendering the Lightspeed trait of reducing its cooldown to 90 seconds completely pointless, and also making AST the most immobile job with zero free movement abilities. I sincerely hope the rework (how many times is it now?) addresses these problems at least, otherwise it would have achieved nothing (again). I'm seriously going to lose my mind if they just do another Shadowbringers of changing the job completely to fix absolutely nothing while also introducing a whole slew of other problems.

@cariselle3366

11 ай бұрын

Yes! The 2 minute burst is ALWAYS either during a high movement phase, which sucks for everyone, OR during high healing or tankbuster. I CANNOT get out my cards and heal up the party/tank at the same time. It feels like they're punishing AST in particular.

kareth is so real for this 50:20 LOOL

Funny thing is that for harrowing hell, my static went into the fight going "we're not gonna tank lb it" and aside from a few niche cases in the beginning where we tank lb'd just to see further into the fight, we haven't tank lb'd that fight since like....the second week we were progging it (for clarification, we're a casual static who meets like four hours a week).

WHY TANKS HAVE ROTATION BUT HEALERS HAVE 1 dps BUTTON?

@kalancosta7650

3 ай бұрын

Healers have way more to do than dps lol

I like that y'all mentioned the shortened cast time for all healers. As an AST coming from SHB I feel like I was the only one amongst my friends who didn't like the change. AST needed it for the cards. WHM identified as a GCD healer so it didn't make sense for them. SCH had Ruin for movement & weaving, still has it, may as well remove it.

Playing healer for 8 years, everytime there's a healer show I wonder why I watch it everytime even though I know exactly what they're going to say. I guess I just like you that much Frosty LMAO. Even back in Heavensward when SCH had like 5 different dots and the talking points were the same. Granted, that version was my least favorite but still. Edit: I feel like I should actually give my opinion. Personally speaking, my actual favorite version of SCH is the PvP version right now. Why? Not necessarily because it does damage, but because it has a unique playstyle that makes interesting choices. I liked the idea of having fewer skills, but the skills themselves do more and unique things at the same time. They also tend to interact and feed into other buttons at the same time. Imagine a world if broil or art of war or bioysis interact more with an individual healers kit than just "I do damage" or even if something like physic or Adlo too did more than just "I heal you good". People like crit Adlos not just because of huge healing numbers I personally think, but because then you could use deploy and interact with it even further. Endwalker buttons were the most interesting to me, because eveeeeryone likes expedient, and even protraction. Why? Because it's something unique no other healer can do, and it has multiple ways to utilize it, and protraction is the same BECAUSE it's effect is much more different than other skills in the kit. As an example though for people who might not play PVP. Expedient in PVP not only gives you the speed buff, but also the damage mit, and it actually gives you recitation which can THEN give you a buffed DoT or a buffed Shield (which is also a damage buff) which can THEN be spread with deployment tactics of, which you'd have to choose either or because deployment tactics spread both. All of the skills flow into each other and have very obvious synergy, and each step you make a separate decision. That's the part I wish healers had more of in PvE, at least in some capacity.

@ahrims7

11 ай бұрын

I very much agree with all your statements. There is a complete lack of synergy of healer kits that is so frustrating. They all feel like pieces haphazardly stuck onto eachother.

@Kionu-

11 ай бұрын

Really good comment, I agree on all points except for HW SCH being your least favorite :p

GNB and DRK (especially DRK) being so awkward on 10 hurts the tank pool a lot there, I think, because a lot of people maining those two jobs just stopped reclearing it as soon as they could

I agree that there are too much yes/no check in the newer savage and it's making the fight feel not much fun. I still remember people dying at titan phase in promise and we still somehow manage to salvage it with everyone going big brain mode.

Making WHM/AST to work is quite simple, make raidwides have lower initial hit, but have strong bleeds afterwards, instead of needing shields+mit so your casters can even live.

The thing about J Waves is its immediately after wormhole, a wall mechanic of the fight.

ffxiv has yet to figure out how to do esuna mechanics well. debuffs that ramp up over time w/ spread on esuna would be very welcomed.

1:15:15 heart of light and dark missionary are useless on HH, since it mitigates magic damage, and HH is physical damage o_0

Even this casual thinks healing is way too boring this expansion. Only Sage feels more interesting to play for more than one dungeon.

@Aiscence

11 ай бұрын

I dunno, I play sage the same way i would play the others in dungeons. use haima and panhaima every other pull, the same way I'd use seraph and fairy tether, kerachole where i'd soil/asylum/etc, same with whispering/physis/etc. All the jobs having their 700 ish gcd heal, their 400 aoe gcd heal, their 800 potency regen aoe, their 700 ogcd heal, etc. I just carbon copied my way of playing other healers to sage ... and it just felt the same to me :c

@jespj7888

11 ай бұрын

Sage is the most boring one in dungeons imo cause of how much healing it has, no need to think at all and just spam aoe dmg

@24hr-Gaming

11 ай бұрын

@@jespj7888 All the healers are like that because damage in Endwalker dungeons are largely a joke. Optimal runs are done without healers.

@jespj7888

11 ай бұрын

@@24hr-Gaming Yes but sage is the easiest by far, sch at least needs to think a little bit managing cds to be able to use all of their aetherflow on energy drain, whm not being able to weave while spamming holy also makes it a bit more interesting imo, and then ofc we have ast that has to work the hardest, still not *hard* but more engaging at least

@yeahmatt

Ай бұрын

instant cast AoE attack that heals PLUS having so many ogcd heals (that you probably won't need to use) makes it a complete joke.

I need more Momo in my life

I honestly just miss the old astrologian cards that we used to have. I agree that in Stormblood the healers felt very different from one another. Just was fun to mess about with. I miss the skills Selene had, it was so fun.

I have been healing since the start of realm reborn and I went Astro since HW

you got three of the softest spoken motherfuckers in the xiv directory for this one man.

50:20 😂😂😂

P5S to P8S had the worst Healer shortage. Carbuncle scared off so many people.

@sweatpupejj

11 ай бұрын

Tbf It was more of the tanks not realizing they had to actually mitigate for the fights in p5-8. Tankbusters actually became tankbusters that required effort.

@silverstrider2046

11 ай бұрын

It didn't help that P6S and P7S were just awful fights, especially P7S backloading most of its mechanics.

😄

Selene was removed because it gave about the same dps and ast cards

I think the other roles, especially tanks have too many tools for healing/mitigation. Look at Bloodwhetting for warrior. All the tanks these days have a stacked cool-down on a very low cooldown

50:19 LMAO based

Lot of contradiction already just the dash for all "yeah but it's fun" is the reason why everyone has one button burst like fell cleave now. So Yeah the astro has only hots but .. that's an identity, the fact others don't know how to play with hot is more of a proof people should learn things more. People are now too used of taking nearly every job, doing 1 2 3 to build a gauge, press ogcds on cooldown then every 2 minutes you press a buff and your burst button follow by x press of the same button, the flavour come in the amount of gcd, ogcd, etc. to prevent them from having to learn what other jobs do so it's easier to adapt to each others :/

There's like 20 different things wrong with healers. Group mitigation/healing is at an all time high, which has been shown in the TOP no healer clear. The buffs to Feint/Addle on top of DPS roles just getting more group mitigation tools and heals within their toolkits has been a growing problem for a while now. Now, it's even being given out as a means of balancing jobs as well, such as the case with PLD and MCH getting more mitigation tools mid expansion. Now, you can say that those jobs needed those tools to balance them out and sure, they did need the help but you also can't deny that their existence also negatively impacts healers as well because you've now made healing less needed as well, however small that difference might be. Healer toolkits are largely disjointed. It's mostly just standalone skills that have little to no interactions with one another and the majority of skills are interchangeable for the most part; Indom or Fey Blessing, CU or CO, Tetra or Solace. The differences between the skills are minute at best and don't really interact with your toolkit all that much, with the only exception listed being Solace building up to Misery. On the whole though, you can throw out whatever skill you want for an encounter and it WILL work so there's little in the way of optimizing what skill to utilizing in the cases that healing is needed. It doesn't help that most of the other abilities that don't directly heal are just buffs to healing and/or mitigation effects. PI, Synastry, Zoe, etc exist to make your already potent healing abilities even more potent and that's fine IF there's an actual end goal to all that but apart from SCH who directly benefits from having the strongest Addlo available for Deployment tactics, the other healers don't really have much reason to utilize these skills except to save them the need of having to heal with more than 1, maybe 2, skills. It doesn't help that the gameplay loop of Healers is pretty much spam 1 ad nauseum for 10-20 minutes in any given content. Give me something to work with here. Give me a proc to manage, some DoTs, buffs/debuffs, SOMETHING so that I don't lose my mind. And before you say AST, you aren't managing buffs on AST. You are throwing a card once every 30s or so. It's as fire and forget as WHM's Assize or SGE Phlegma. You can't enhance the card, you can't extend its duration, and the card doesn't alter your gameplay in any significant way. To me, managing buffs/debuffs is having a skill(s) that I want to keep up as much as humanly possible with my toolkit helping to facilitate that goal. Old AST had this to a degree with Time Dilation, Royal Road and CO but it wasn't perfect either. The most in terms of management that AST gets is getting good as swapping between the boss and teammates during your 2 minute burst phase and timing your heals to align with raid damage. I don't expect SE will ever change healers at this point. The damage is already too great without a complete rework of the game and I don't see that happening.

With respect for momo, I disagree a bit with the fact that ast lacks raw healing tools entirely compared to other healers, it just depends how its kit is used. In prog, since star is on the ground 33% of the time if you use it on cd and leave it hanging while topping people with other tools, you can use it as a reactive heal bomb if someone goes wrong. I think that's how it should often be used, a layer of safety hanging on top of people in case someone blows up their tower or something, while we reach enrage. Neutral sect AH is slightly less fast than a lilly to get the heal out for sure, but it will increase party EHP, and be spammable for 15s, so it has tons of applications a raw heal tool wouldnt have, while having good sustained raw heal. Holding on to ladies is also a strong prog strategy. Im not sure we can say sge and sch have way more raw heal output on demand, a lot of their raw healing is cast based too and have long cooldowns. Ast is maybe less straight forward to play at a high level prog healing wise sure, and it does take more mental preparation to use thoses tools properly, but it doesnt lack "heal bombs" especially when overlaying different tools. Great show overall all the hosts know their stuff and have different perspectives, nice to have thoses discussions on healers

@24hr-Gaming

11 ай бұрын

Your point about sage is fundamentally false. Most of your healing is done with ogcds with pneuma + zoe being your big heal. Physis + ixachole is enough to top people off after most raidwides. Sages do a lot of healing if they're actually using their full kit but they shouldn't outheal an ast.

FFxiv kind of ruined support for me. Every prior game and mmo I was a support main. healing is what I enjoyed but ffxiv healing is only fun in prog after that it loses any flair it had. Your main goal is to not heal which I hate. Other mmos I was used to healing being my main job but in ffxiv you get to the point where you want to press heals as little as possible. I miss skill expression in mmos. " that guys dps is crazy on ninja!" , " wow! She can outheal anything!!". I miss these types of interactions. I hope dawntrail brings something new .

I love the role of healer compared to the tank.

Yay, one button dps rotation and scripted incoming damage, no randomness, no interrupts, no affixes and the only challenge is week 1 savage and ultimates, also in dungeons, mobs are just dummies, nothing to kick, no different damage, etc

Do they talk about BLU at all?

Proof that players don't know what they want: "we want jobs to be unique"... literally 2 secs later "they should all have a dash". And when Frosty calls the bullshit out, there's no valid answer. Really shows the quality of content creation.

@TipsyTurtle24

11 ай бұрын

Players are great for finding problems, not solutions. The same issue later when one suggested Macro and Pneuma be a DPS gain. When it was brought up that people wouldn't use it for the healing and instead use it on CD, it was met with a non answer.

Healing has become dull. Boring and kind of in places unnecessary. We need a whole new system. What we need is for SE to man up and make healers pure support. Remove our damage, and instead give us ways to increase the damage of the party, to the degree that it would make up the damage we originally would do. Combine that with new ways to heal, things we need to do in order to make healing work. Maybe even some kind of Draw and Junction from 8 some kind of interesting mechanic where we have to utilize the enemy to heal.

@Anu_Evil_Queen

11 ай бұрын

They should but they won’t, the devs seem to stuck in their ways to change anything at this point.

@GoatSays

11 ай бұрын

I can’t help but think it’s a consequence of the game becoming so popular. They’re trying to simplify every job so much that they just become so boring

Holy crap thank you for calling out the “THEY SHOULD ALL HAVE A GAP CLOSER” immediately followed up with “MAKE THEM UNIQUE” Developers literally cannot please players because that exact mentality, of desiring two diametrically oppositional things, is rampant.

if you really want a challenge healing. Try healing party finder. the difficulty of healing always just depends on the group. and while i get some experienced healers can be bored. as soon as you make it more complex it screws over even more people wanting to try healing . i honestly dont think theres any real solution aside giving them more of a dps rotation. that way while nothing is going on you have more to do. i feel like long time players view things differently than players and never consider players starting out. for example i always see people say sage is easy. which yeah it is once you get used to it. but so many people starting out as sage dont know how to use sage at all and just constantly struggle. im not saying anyone is wrong here but i see why things are the way they are. not everyone that plays are gamers not everyone that plays can learn fast some dont even have good dexterity. then theres players where the minute they make dps more complex they will hard focus dps over healing. so even making dps more complex can go wrong. jobs homogenization can feel boring yes but personally with my experience in not having groups and playing with randoms i dont know what they can do. players will complain but they never think on how to voice solutions because its not an easy fix. theres no easy fix thats going to just work for everyone.

I think healing is already exciting enough. Midcore players like myself likely make up the majority of the playerbase, imo. There are so many players that are actually skillful that would join the harder content if they could get a group that's not disrespectful of the time other players have. For many of us, the challenges are plenty difficult as is, and the further they degrade the line between ultimate and savage difficulty, the worse it gets for players like myself, because we don't want it harder, but we also don't want it easier. There's plenty challenge for the hardcores, who make up like only 5% of players, in the ultimates. As for healing complexity, there are minor differences between them. Being unsatisfied with the way it is, just makes you look ungrateful for a game that many of us love the way it is. I welcome improvements and certainly have my own thoughts on what would make it better, but I can't complain when it already feels fluid and coherent to play scholar and white mage, which are my favorite healers. People cried for the healing to be more accessible to address the healer shortages. Now they are crying because it's too easy. Square Enix does not know what a happy medium looks like, and no matter what they do, they cannot satisfy everyone.

Ím against anything that can add nuances to the game that only statics can realisticly abuse and not PF. PF = the way to balance the game around.

Try healing with a bad tank. That's anything but boring.

@CalastantNight

11 ай бұрын

And then they and perhaps the whole party, blame you for "not healing enough". It's happened to me so many times, I don't play healer anymore.

@MrCarlWax

11 ай бұрын

You shouldn't need people to be horrible in order to enjoy healing. It doesn't even make it fun because healers are so incredibly op that you can just have a dps instead of a tank

@dalgona4819

11 ай бұрын

this lmao. i know some ppl brag bc tanks are the class that can solo dungeons but when the tank is horrible? boi.

*checks guests* oh god not these guys.

its so painful to listen to these guys talk about healing. While yes there is some truth to some of their complaints, ultimately the game is not designed for the .001% who optimize speed run kills of fights and a lot of the problems they have are of their own creation.

There is healing 😂

Not so hot hottake, bring back Cleric Stance and make more AoEs like Almagest.

@omensoffate

11 ай бұрын

Never gonna happen

I couldn't make it through this one. What an unhappy group of guests!

3 whiny entitled raiders that contradict themselves for 2 hours straight

You should stop assume casual = bad.

@minakatahizuru

11 ай бұрын

@@Eric-ih5mb you fucking do same imagine. Insulting people so much.

@ich3730

11 ай бұрын

Casual = doesnt engage with the game as much. doesnt engage with the game as much = less experience with the game. Which means less experience with the game = bad.

@24hr-Gaming

11 ай бұрын

If you pay attention to skill usage in dungeons, most casual players are really bad. Endwalker dungeons are so easy that a half asleep person playing blind should still clear. If players are actually competent, there's no reason to bother with a healer. But in year 2023 people are still arguing about wall to wall pulls.

@cd2340

11 ай бұрын

well a lot of the time its true so lol

@khys4772

11 ай бұрын

Also, what's wrong with saying that people are bad ? Like yeah it's not the end of the world, I don't think it's rude to say that I don't expect the average player that only engages with the game a few hours a week and never did savage (or even extremes) to... not have that much in-depth knowledge about optimization and such. I mean yeah, no kidding if we are talking about endgame stuff, then someone who does not know anything about all that is technically "bad", shocking. This is not an insult, it's just how it is. In the context of normal content such as dungeons, the casual playerbase might very well be average and that's all good.

No gamer girl representation

Dudes whole time you say casuals as bad players how about you just say dmg gap between good and bad players.