I'm so glad you mentioned RATLD! Namaari is a very complex character, who was horribly manipulated and brainwashed by her mother, and not a lot of people even mention that she too suffered under Virana's control. She is my favourite character in Raya simply because she's more nuanced than people think, and deep down, she is a genuinely good person who just wants what is best for her people. Unlike her POS excuse of a mother. Vi's treatment of Namaari was even worse in the junior novelization of the movie, since she never shows true love towards Namaari and treats her more like a pawn than her own daughter. She also mentions that she brought up Namaari to be a general more than a princess, or even her child, since Virana wants her nation to be militarized and openly hostile towards the other four clans. It's also heavily implied that Virana killed her husband and the father of Namaari as well, since she essentially implodes on anyone who challenges her authority (General Atitaya is a prime example of that). Also, it's interesting that both Virana and Ming from Turning Red are voiced by Sandra Oh. But Ming was a better mom than Vi could ever aspire to be

@Krossxc

2 жыл бұрын

Damn, this is a ton of extremely interesting and valuable information I did not know about. I think this deserves to be pinned. Thank you for talking about this.

@aetheremployeesabrina

2 жыл бұрын

@@Krossxc Honestly, the novelizations that they make of newer Disney films are such good reads. They answer any questions you may have and provide more detail than the movie does at times. The Encanto one is a great read too, but I really loved Raya's because it delves deeper into Namaari's character and basically proves that she isn't the villain of the movie

@WolframiteWraith

2 жыл бұрын

I think the worst part with her character is that her supposed redemption falls flat because if she doesn't choose to save everyone they all die, her included. Raya only has to trust that she's not an idiot. Plus, the movie really emphasizes blind trust. Namaari never earned it and yet not trusting her was deemed a failure on the part of Raya. This stirs up a lot of resentment for Namaari more than her actual actions. Which yeah, aren't all that great.

@violetlavi2207

2 жыл бұрын

@@WolframiteWraith AGREED also the fact that Namaari blamed RAYA for this whole situation…when it was NAMAARI’S actions that caused it??

@aetheremployeesabrina

2 жыл бұрын

@@violetlavi2207 Except that 1) Namaari did not blame Raya at all. She said and I quote "You are just as much to blame for Sisu's death as I am." Namaari is acknowledging that she herself screwed up, but she also wants Raya to know that she too screwed up and should acknowledge that too. Second of all, Namaari is not the one that broke the gem and brought the Druun back (she is merely the pawn/catalyst that Virana used to make that occur), nor did she pull the trigger that ended Sisu's life (If you read the books, it very clearly states that Namaari took her hand off the trigger, and Raya's kris slamming into her weapon is what caused it to fire).

I would like to see a disney or pixar story about a character who have an unredeemable parent, a parent who just dont change and stay toxic... What to do in that case? Save yourself, cutting tie and set boundaries.. be around better people.. Its not all parents that are capable of love. But would they DARE to show a story like that, when they know its the parents who buys these movies??

@NukeOTron

2 жыл бұрын

*cough* Hunchback *cough* Tangled *cough* Oh, wait, you mean someone who is a biological parent.

@whatalsaid

2 жыл бұрын

Doesn't Tangled count? They're not technically related, but Gothel raised Rapunzel since she was a baby, and Rapunzel didn't even meet her true parents until AFTER she turned 18, meaning she was an adult the first time she met her biological parents. Her entire childhood was spent being raised by a narcissist who gaslights and emotionally abuses her.

@cefiroindulgesinvampirism383

2 жыл бұрын

tangled!! especially tangled the series. i would rather not spoil it if you haven't watched it but it goes really in depth with the idea of irredeemable parents, abuse, trauma and living with childhood trauma. it does an incredibly good job with its characters!

@relicsplace9218

2 жыл бұрын

@@whatalsaidGothel situation is VERY different tho she never had an intention to be a parent for her she just steal her for eternal life .d

@matheussanthiago9685

2 жыл бұрын

That's Tangled

I feel like Coco should’ve been included

@Krossxc

2 жыл бұрын

I was really into the idea of each sequential movie furthering the generational trauma exploration which is why I just stuck with the last four, but now that you mention it, I definitely could have mentioned other films from further back that contribute to the discussion

@acemagalor2519

2 жыл бұрын

@@Krossxc fair

@z2yn

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed, Imelda's pain over Hector leaving and never returning had a huge impact on the family, hurting Miguel and who knows who else was hurt as well but had to choose between their family and their love to music. How many friends and relatives turned away from them just because they hated music?

I feel like coco was one of the first disney films to explore generational trauma as we clearly see Miguel's family was deeply affected by his great great grandfather "abandoning" his family. I do appreciate people talking about generational trauma and how the latest disney movies have been exploring that topic a lot more. Trauma is something that not a lot of people talk about, despite it being common, because it can be a heavy topic for a lot, myself included. I honestly love seeing disney dwelve into parent-child dynamics and the generational trauma being passed down from old to new generations, but I would love to see disney really dwelve into a sibling dynamic. Often times, toxic sibling dynamics are not talked about a lot or barely paid any attention to, which can be extremely isolating in my personal expierence. I know I would cry like a baby if disney ever did a movie on a toxic sibling relationship.

@spongeyspikes09

Жыл бұрын

But sadly it's possibly the last Disney/Pixar film with a legit villain, Ernesto de la Cruz And that moment the Rivera family completely exposed him to the people for the fraud that he is, is one of the best victories ever, I mean where else would you see a family teaming up to take the man responsible for an entire generational trauma down?

@MonStarGuy

Жыл бұрын

What about Jasmine's storyline in Aladdin. Or Ariel in The Little Mermaid. Maybe you're just too young to remember

I mean Buzz Lightyear does have a small potential for a multi-generational theme, judging by how its revealed in one of the Toy Story movies that Buzz's canonical antagonist toy mirrors the Darth Vader "I am your father" schtick. I'm reaching super far with that though so I highly doubt it.

@Krossxc

2 жыл бұрын

imagine

@someguy7887

2 жыл бұрын

I think what’s more likely is that we might see some hint of generational trauma from the granddaughter of Buzz’s best friend. Stuff definitely happened when buzz went through that wormhole which could affect her character through out the movie.

@faithcatalan6479

2 жыл бұрын

@@someguy7887 oooh! That would be interesting to watch play out.

As someone with a narc parent I'm not gonna lie Abuela from Encanto reminded me of my Mother in every single way and the ending where everyone just forgives Abuela because she also has trauma kind of pulled me out of it. I really hope the next big animated movie with themes of this type can have a message of not always having to fix the relationships with the people who hurt you. Closing doors is okay. Burning bridges is okay. Forgiveness doesn't need to benefit one's abuser. You can find closure without keeping toxic people in your life.

Have you watched Xhao's video on Raya? A lot of Namari's actions were largely her fault. There's also a video called "why encanto worked and raya didn't". As well as lots of other videos (especially made by SEA people) detailing why the message of Raya was bad, and Namari responsible for a lot of the stuff she did.

This deserves way more views, pretty stellar analysis across multiple titles

Honestly I wanna see a movie where the parents are absolute pieces of shit, as in you can't really see them as anything but terrible people, but they're both understandable pieces of shit. Like you can understand where they're coming from, but the ends don't justify the means you know? Also maybe have it be both the parents, since most of these movies mentioned seem to focus on the negative effects of a mother or grandmother on the family, not a male family member or even both which I feel is slightly more realistic.

@FunFilmFare

2 жыл бұрын

I think "Lion King 2" and "Shang Chi" were the only Disney movies to show that. And you're right, in all the movies mentioned only moms cause trouble XD

Even COCO has that Generational Trauma

I would say that the first evidence of this concept was in Brave. The idea was quite out of focus but the plot revolves around Elinor believing that the best way to be a leader/ruler/queen is the way she was taught and trying to force her daughter into that mold for her own good, and Merida attempting to break that pattern. That is the main conflict. In a lot of ways Turning Red is a more evolved version of this same argument

I feel like Brave could have been included here, despite its reputation

@yamataichul

Жыл бұрын

The making of brave is more interesting than the movie itself. The development hell is literally a new generation losing the battle with an older generation.

I think I would like to see a story where the traumatic actions of the older generation are more nuanced. Like a parent who genuinely wanted to do the best for their child, and did do everything right according to the information available at the time, yet it later turned out that that available information wasn't reliable and their child was hurt inadvertently. So the lesson isn't that the parents need to see the value of freedom and self expression etc because they already got that, but moreso that the parents need to be open to what their specific child needs but also that the child has to accept that their parents aren't infallible, and for the parents to realize that maybe they were also not treated the way that they needed growing up, etc. Idk how compelling that narrative would be

@rhondahoward8025

2 жыл бұрын

Greg from Steven Universe? He tried to give Steven what he didn't have as a child... freedom and self-expression. But he went too far and Steven grew up unprepared for life.

I love how the fin hair of sea monsters in Luca look somehow like flowers.

Fun fact: Namaari's mom and Meilin Lee's mom are both voiced by the same actress.

this is not only a really great analysis but still very enjoyable to watch. I hope you continue making content and gain a bit more recognition

1:10 Disney may be a soulless corporation, but art is still art. We shouldn't look down on the artists for 'selling out' to a soulless profit-driven business model. In fact, we should be rewarding Disney for taking the time and -most importantly to Disney- the money to hire and give these artists the room (and money) to express themselves. However, how we reward Disney needs to be done carefully, just like when training an animal. Most animals are food driven, as corporations are money driven. However, you don't want to give your pet a treat every time you give them a command. In the same way, I don't want to pay ever-increasing amounts for art. I wish corporations could see and understand the long-term profits that can be collected when they focus on creating meaningful art instead focusing solely on increasing sales movie to movie. I believe when Hollowood first started, film companies understood the importance in creating a cultural asset instead of a product to sell

Arguably Coco fits into these too but that was a few years back

Aaah I'm early, gonna watch the video now! Sounds super interesting! Edit: The comparisons are really insightful, I've never thought about Raya or Luca in terms of generational conflict and it's especially interesting to hear about the differences between Encanto and Turning Red in this regard!

This also coincides with Disney rewriting all their villains to be good guys (Cruella, Maleficent, Loki, Once Upon a Time, etc.)

This is an incredibly well done and underrated analysis!

I don't think I've ever seen your channel/videos before but KZread recommended this on my homepage and I was like. damn. that's a great thought to explore. and you did very well! I think your proposed movie definitely has great potential I haven't seen Turning Red yet but I definitely am interested in it moreso now. The internet had such a viscerally negative and mocking reception to it. :/ As Katia in the comments said, I would also like to see more films show the self care and courage that comes with cutting ties from people who are only hurting you, even if, and especially if, they're blood family. 90% of my family is not blood related, but they're absolutely family.

@darkiusmc979

2 жыл бұрын

People hated turning red? I thought people were just mocking a horrible tone-deaf review of it.

@sepiasmith5065

2 жыл бұрын

@@darkiusmc979 Well, maybe some people were! That makes me feel a bit better. But yeah a lot of the comments I saw when it first came out were super mocking and I'm like.... y'all it's a children's movie. But they were in particular calling the art style "super ugly" and mocking the "bean mouths." Which just sucks because art is so subjective.

@Krossxc

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks' for the compliments! And yes, I totally agree with the cutting ties thing. That was one of the scattered notes I had left of the cutting room floor for this video. I couldn't' really work out a way to naturally fit it into the script in a way I was happy with so I'm very glad that people quickly added that point to the conversation

man that bit at the end of a kid losing their parent and seeing the value in the lessons those teachings taught, but also struggling with how the parents wronged them and how you will never be able to make them understand that you appreciate all that they've done, and you realize they they tried to do their best whenever possible, they still messed up and need to confront that. They made serious mistakes that I will have to live the rest of my life dealing with the consequences of, but they also taught be good things and loved me and I wish I could still tell them, well, all of that the good and bad. But since I lost them when I was still figuring all this stuff out, I will never get the chance to really tell them. And at the end of the day I will just have to live with that and try to use that knowledge to do as best I can living my life from here on. Thanks for that, it really resonated with me if you couldn't tell lol

So thankful KZread recommended this to me, I haven't finished watching yet at the time of the comment but it's looking really good so far

@Krossxc

2 жыл бұрын

Man, multiple people now have commented that this video showed up in their recommended page. I guess KZread deemed me worthy today Hope you find other stuff on my channel you like!

I liked your meta-analisis of the Disney films. That being said, killing off overbearing father figure to make the hero feel guilty for the rest of his life rubs me the wrong way; that's why I never got into Spider-Man.

@Krossxc

2 жыл бұрын

I feel like it's a pretty well established trope for storytelling. The whole Yoda Luke dynamic, where the teacher's death is itself the final lesson to the student. I totally get why that rope would rub people the wrong way, but that's just what I was going for.

Wonder what would happens if Disney make a film based on trauma

Wow, I'm really glad this got recommended to me. This was an awesome and super well put together video!

@Krossxc

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I've really been trying to do more with this style of video so I'm really glad people seem to be liking it

I feel that now, after one year, we can also add Spiderverse 2 to this list (even if its not dianey, i know). It's giving a representation for an opposite generation and gives direction in which parents could go to resolve the issue before its happened. And that's also a very cool side to explore. It feels like straingt continuation in this theme exploration and represents this possible conflict from the other side of it. Thanks for the analysis btw, it's really cool and detailed, I had a great time

i just wanna say that your voice is beautiful and i love it.

@Krossxc

2 жыл бұрын

R- really 😭

@beaniebooze

2 жыл бұрын

@@Krossxc of course darling

I'm throwing it out there that the Generational Trauma trope has been there since The Little Mermaid. Then there was Jasmine's storyline in Aladdin, Mulan, Chicken Little, Brother Bear, Brave, Tangled (to an extent, if you view Mother Gothel as a parental figure), Princess and the Frog, Frozen, Luca, Encanto, Turning Red, Onward, Coco... Pretty much every modern Disney film.

I think the artists raised by boomers/older xers trying to tell us something But I'm not quite sure what

Great analysis!

I suppose Coco and Shang-Chi would work in a part 2.

Would like Disney to make a film that combines the classic villain, the twist villain, and generational trauma. Like you could have something that's been going on for centuries and the main villain would be protecting the status quo. One of the characters that first appears as a good guy is later revealed to be in cahoots with the villain. Can either have the twist villain be reformed or not.

dear god can we please just get a single disney protag that doesnt suffer from parental issues

Good vid. Hope you review some Mamoru Oshii films since they are an experience to watch and philosophical

@Krossxc

2 жыл бұрын

I've seen some of his work and I definitely think he's one of the most interesting directors in the anime industry. I didn't know anyone wanted to see a video about his work from me. I just might consider it

I don't think that both the parents in Luca nor Virana did have to go through trauma themselves - they could have been also influenced in the same way by the older generations as they do now; with someone years ago, not even a family member, going through something traumatic that influenced the people around them in an attempt to prevent this thing from happening to them or their offspring. This doesn't apply just with trauma, but religion too - people raised into their parents religion from a young age tend to raise their kids in that religion as well, which they might take on as well depending on whether they are influenced by outside factors or their views contradict the belief. Parents forcing their world-view on their kids can be because they were raised that way themselves and strongly support those beliefs. I think this is more the case for Luca's parents and Virana, although you can tell that Luca and Namari themselves don't share their views completely and are in conflict - between choosing their family values/values that their society approves of against their own perspective and feelings about it and the possible changes it could bring should they stand for them. Namari is in this case the example of failing to stand up to those enforced values until it's almost too late. Luca meanwhile manages to succeed and convinces his parents to see things outside of their perspective. Edit: The same thing applies to the humans in Luca - it can of course come from hundred year old trauma that stayed on people's mind as a precaution, but there is no reason for them to fear sea monsters other than that they are different from them and therefore could be dangerous. The same goes probably for the sea monsters. Because people are mostly scared by what's different to them- we legit (might) have caused the extinction of other human species thousands of years ago because they weren't exactly like us and therefore "dangerous". The best way to deal with it is like we see in Luca - get to know this "different" subject and learn that they are not what your mind or taught reality made them look like.

Might I pitch the Mitchells and the Machines movie... Was actually kinda reminded of this movie that I watched recently when you were talking about wht you'd like to see in a movie. This movie dealswith generational trauma with the similar premise of "the children not conforming to the parents' expectations, resulting in a somewhat dysfunctional family", with the conclusion being something akin to what you were hoping for. Would highly recommend to give this one a watch if you're interested in this topic

I know you had reasons for discounting soul, but did you consider onward? That's where I think this shift started.

Oh man oh man this is excellent analysis, very well done, thank the algorithm for sending this my way

@Krossxc

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Much appreciated Yeah, the analytics graph for this video is bizarre. I posted a pic of it on my Twitter

Um Mirabel is 15 so not an adult. She and Raya (18) are just older teenagers than May or Luca who were more teenyboppers. Disney hardly ever has a main protagonists that’s unquestionably an adult. That’s why Frozen is a huge outlier with Elsa being 21 an Anna 18 and the sequel 24 and 21. Most Disney protagonist are teenagers or early adolescents because they know their target audience is kids and they can relate more to teenagers than adults. Seriously just looking at the Disney Princess alone everyone was a teenager except for Elsa…and Kida but she magically aged very slowly over 8,000 years so I don’t think she should count because she obviously is still an older teenager or barely an adult in a wibly wobbly timy wimy sort of way. Snow White 14 Cinderella 19 Aurora 15/16 Eilonwy 12 Ariel 16 Belle 17 Jasmine 15 Pocahontas 18 Mulan 16 Kida (8,000ish) Tiana 19 Rapunzel 18 Merida 16 Elsa 21 Anna 18 Vanellope von Schweetz 9 Moana 16 Raya 18 My point Disney likes it female protagonists to be teenagers. They’re young, pretty, and asserting their independence which equals advantage/growth/plot.

@Krossxc

2 жыл бұрын

I was referring to Luisa (19), Isabella (22), and Bruno (50) Also, Raya being 18, which does make her an adult by most modern countries' standards, is kinda a distraction from what actually makes her an adult, which is that she was completely self sufficient for like 6 years during an apocalypse. Imo, it almost doesn't matter how old you are in that situation. If you can get by like Raya did, it's not unreasonable to call you an adult

I'm starting to miss a good ol'fashioned villain

because the definition of my life is on tumb, wait

Remember us when your movie goes viral😆✋

wonder if i need to give some kind of trauma/psycological issue to my oc when i beginning to writte my fantasy story...

Audiences: "We want ABC." Disney: "Well here's XYZ. Give us money." Audiences: "No." Disney: "Bigots!" Not sure which I want more, for them to learn their lesson and start telling good stories again, or to completely crash and burn.

Great video dude!😊

@Krossxc

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

What about coco

Coco had this too

It would be nice if the older generations did pick up on this but in reality it doesn't happens. Also that's not mention coco

nice video! sure hope that glitch doesnt mean anything-

@Krossxc

2 жыл бұрын

lmao I flubbed the line and was like "rather than taking 30 seconds to re-record that, I will spend 10 minutes making a joke out of it that lasts for half a second"

@faggysock2395

2 жыл бұрын

@@Krossxc HWHDGF u did very well on it! i thought it was some arg type deal lmao but great video definitely going 2 be coming back for more!!

18:23 got me rolling

Honestly I think it’s just time to move on from this, I think it peaked with Encanto

p͎r͎o͎m͎o͎s͎m͎

👋👋

I like how you cleverly sidestepped having to say "Raya" was bad. 😂 Namaari was an interesting character with plenty of potential, but I found the writing overall to be... bad.

@Krossxc

2 жыл бұрын

I liked the movie. I didn't think the writing was anything impressive but I enjoyed the world design, comedy, and pacing. Solid 6/10 imo but that's just me

Half of the movies on the thumbnail aren't even Disney lol.

@Krossxc

2 жыл бұрын

Pixar is a subsidiary of Disney

These kids don't know what true trauma is

This what Disney should focus on instead of woke-fing everything and stop with the live action remakes

turning red could've done without the gyrating imo, lowkey gives me vibes like cuties

@Krossxc

2 жыл бұрын

Most people I've heard talk about the film say that Mei's characterization is pretty accurate to their own experience at her age and that they feel pretty happy that young girls today can feel like those experiences are totally normal and not something to be ashamed of. I never saw Cuties so I can't really compare the two movies but I feel like Turning Red's depiction on Mei expressing her sexuality was in pretty good taste. It was a little uncomfortable to watch but it's depicting an uncomfortable time in the main character's life so I feel like there was really no way around it without making the film less honest towards its intended audience. That's just me tho. I totally get that some people would have preferred a film more to their sensibilities

@OGamelon

2 жыл бұрын

Didn't think about it that way, fair point Can't really think of a good and practical work around and could def just be my taste

@ma.2089

2 жыл бұрын

Wasn’t cuties with very young children, and Turning red uses middle school characters? These girls have reached or about to reach puberty. Cuties had children who weren’t.

@stingerjohnny9951

2 жыл бұрын

Also could’ve used more 9/11 references 😜

@justyourlocalcommenter7492

2 жыл бұрын

@@ma.2089 the characters being in middle school doesn’t really make it better since they’re still minors, but they are also animated. Cuties used real human kids.