“I’ll predict here today that Israel is not going to starve Gazans to death. But if they do, I’ll say Finkelstein was right and I was wrong.” -Noam in conversation with Norm Finkelstein, 11/1/2023 @2:20:51

@indus7744

3 ай бұрын

@comedycellarclips - So Noam, after 5 months do you believe or at least suspect that Gaza is being starved delibrately by Israel? Food trucks are not allowed in the name of inspection by IDF. There are Israeli settlers with chubby babies stopping food that would prevent deaths by starvation.

@JamesThompson-hn3sm

Ай бұрын

How's that going drew ?

Who would have thought that people would have a problem with soldiers justifying war crimes?

@boatbutch

3 ай бұрын

what war crimes did they justify?

@LocoGeorge123

3 ай бұрын

@@boatbutchdude too many to even count

@andrewking4350

3 ай бұрын

@@boatbutchthey killed 100 and injured 800 yesterday

@boatbutch

3 ай бұрын

@@LocoGeorge123 well shucks, guess they get off on a technicality then…

@boatbutch

3 ай бұрын

@@andrewking4350 isn’t that terrible? The US never got involved in incidents like this in Nazi Germany cuz they had the good sense not to give their people aid along the way.

This is a great podcast- I am starved for hearing this kind of open discussion that engages in old school free speech, (and adds a bit of humor here and there). Thanks soooo much and please keep it coming.

“The deplorable thing is that the people who were tortured yesterday, torture today.” B. Traven

The Line Between Victim & Abuser Many experts suggest that the ‘line’ we draw between victims and abusers to separate them from one another, is in fact illusory. While it is never fair to compare the victim to their abuser, much evidence has suggested that some who have suffered devastating abuse at the hands of another, can then go on to inflict further abuse on a new target of their own.

You’re stuck in an echo chamber that’s clouding your judgement beyond belief. It’s painful to listen to.

@chrisstultz8143

Ай бұрын

Seems like if you had a substantive critique of what he said you would have mad it lol. No offense bit you seem like a stupid person haha.

@M33324

22 күн бұрын

Ok it's not just me. I'm shocked at how horrible this is!

Wow this guy is more tone deaf than Noam lol

Cornel West is not anti-semetic. That term should not be tossed around so lightly.

Noam didn't notice any genocidal intent in IDF. Is he blind or deaf?

@EytanKoch

3 ай бұрын

Did you notice any genocidal intent in Hamas?

@enthronedking

3 ай бұрын

Sincere question - how would you respond to Oct 7 if you were the Israeli government?

@EytanKoch

3 ай бұрын

@@enthronedking that’s one question for sure. An even deeper question: how would he feel if he were living in Southern Israel and he had a family member murdered or kidnapped by Hamas?

@jalemairliha

3 ай бұрын

No. You are. Fighting a just war against an existential threat doesn't inherently make the defense genocidal. But an offensive invasion of death squads who perform all sorts of medieval torture inside a sovereign country absolutely is. You're probably one of the people shouting "by any means necessary." Well right back atcha dude. Free your mind from the Palestinian mind virus ... Your morality and clear-sightedness will be restored.

@asshowl

3 ай бұрын

​@@enthronedking build a time machine and end the occupation in 1967.

A today on "wacky old man in the basement justifying ethnic cleansing, apartheid, collective punishment, starvation and war crimes"....Heeeeereeeees Noam

What happened to debates on the channel?

What is the "never dare" you are referring to?

This is how conceited and self-involved these panelists are; they just claimed that this Israeli "war" is the first one on social media. Ukraine?

@jeremyblock7032

3 ай бұрын

True, but not nearly as close to Ukraine

@boatbutch

3 ай бұрын

Its not a war?

Cruel monsters

The number of lies that these guys managed to rattle off is amazing. 1. These people seem to make a lot of the martyrs' fund. Why won't they have a martyr fund ? No matter what you think of a suicide bomber (terrorist or freedom fighter), for the people who think he died fighting for their cause, they would respect him. They would want the family who lost their bread winner to have some kind of financial backing. Also, strange coming from the Israelis who seem to have forgotten their own history: Mechanim Begin was a terrorist who became the Prime Minister of Israel. Look up King David Hotel Bombing, ordered by Begin: he killed British civilians to free his country. Do the Israelis condemn him for being a terrorist ? But when Palestinians do it, they are fanatics. Because they are doing it in 2023, and not in 1947 ? But that's because they don't have a homeland in 2023. 2. Palestinians have rejected peace offers ? At least be serious. Anyone can look up the leaked Palestinian papers. Palestinian Authority, at one point, was ready to accept 10,000 refugees to be settled in Israel. So many lies about them wanting to demographically change Israel through right of return when it is Israel trying to ethnically cleanse Gaza. It is shameful. Talk about Palestinians having lost the wars, and still not giving up ? If Hamas wins a war tomorrow, it would be okay ? Talking about how Palestinians are still living in the past, and not moving on ? While also talking about how Jews have a claim to this land because they lived here 2000 years ago ? Who is living in the past ? 3. Lastly, the lies about why Gaza is kept under siege, and how Israel is doing it only for security. Here is an advisor to Israeli Prime Minister, Sharon admitting what kind of a Palestinian 'state' Israel was willing to accept and offer, and why they were closing Gaza off. Here are some quotes: "Let's view it from a Palestinian perspective. Let's pretend you and I are Arafat and Yasser Abed Rabbo looking at the map. Look at what the Jews are going to leave us for a state. They're going to leave us the Gaza Strip - which is no more than a crowded "prison." Then there's another "prison" called Hebron, and another, larger one called Samaria. Here there are 1.6 million, here 1 million, and here 1.5 million (soon to be 3 million). Each of these "prisons" is cut off from the rest. The Jews won't permit us to have an army, while their own powerful army will surround us. They won't permit us to have an air force, while their own air force will fly over us. They won't allow us the Right of Return. Why should we make a deal with them? Why should we accept a state from them? Let's wait patiently for another 10 years, when the Jews will comprise a mere 40 percent of the country, while we will be 60 percent. The world won't allow a minority to rule over a majority, so Palestine will be ours. " The most interesting quote is this, where he admits that Israel wants to commit ethnic cleansing at some point: "And Gaza is going to be such a disaster that it will be beyond our capacity to help. There will have to be large-scale international aid. The US will have to pressure Egypt to cede land. " "People like Effi Eitam and Benny Elon say the Palestinians should set up their homeland in the Sinai. I asked Eitam at the Herzliya Conference whether he spoke to Hosni Mubarak about this plan and he said "not yet." " "When 2.5 million people live in a closed-off Gaza, it's going to be a human catastrophe. Those people will become even bigger animals than they are today, with the aid of an insane fundamentalist Islam. The pressure at the border will be awful. It's going to be a terrible war. So, if we want to remain alive, we will have to kill and kill and kill. All day, every day. ..." " Between 1948 and 1967, the fence was a fence, and 400,000 people left the West Bank voluntarily. This is what will happen after separation. If a Palestinian cannot come into Tel Aviv for work, he will look in Iraq, or Kuwait, or London. I believe that there will be movement out of the area. " So, in effect, collective punishment was only one of the aims behind disengagement from Gaza. Management of demographics, a possible ethnic cleansing, hope that the situation would be made so bad that Gazans would just leave, all this was and has been part of the policy. October 7th gave them the cover of the war to go ahead with this policy in full force. The full article is here: twitter.com/scotthortonshow/status/1740749400027091384 Now tell me why Palestinians should not want a one state when the Israelis have already annexted East Palestine, the center of Palestinian cultural life, want to give them three prisons in the name of a state, and want the state to be demilitarized ? And Palestinians are unreasonable to reject this 'peace' ? Being denied a state on even 22 percent of their homeland is 'peace' ?

@mauinix4563

3 ай бұрын

What do you say about all the money Gaza has got for decades? I don't think Hamas wants to build a prosperous place to live so they can continue to fight for their beliefs to get their homeland back

@Yogesh-jq9jj

3 ай бұрын

@@mauinix4563 What money ? Do you have no understanding of how an economy works ? When there are restrictions on imports and exports, when there is no freedom of movement to the West Bank, how will an economy function ? Read all the reports on the economy of Gaza. From 1967 to 1987, Israel had made Gaza dependent on its imports. As soon as the Oslo process started, closures of Gaza began: after Goldstein's massacres, in response to terrorism. Gaza has had no time to become self-sufficient. Read Amira Hass' book to know what has been done to that place. All in name of security. All because Israel covets West Bank's water and land. No economy can function based only on aid. Hamas might be corrupt, but it is not like if they hadn't been, all that aid money might have made 2.2 million people prosperous. Even if it could have, this cannot be an excuse to prevent people from having freedom. Let them have their freedom. Right now, they are blaming Israel for their misery. Pretty soon, they will turn on Hamas, when Hamas won't have Israel as an excuse. And even if they can't, that would be their internal problem. You cannot prevent their self-determination based on your perceived belief about what Hamas would do if they get their state. It is not like Israel is weak. It is a military superpower with nuclear weapons. And if Israel makes peace, the world will be on Israel's side if Hamas reneges on its promise. And they know it. They need international community on their side for even small victories. You cannot give a free pass to Israel to keep annexing more and more of the West Bank merely because of your perceived fears about what Hamas would do if they get a state. It is unacceptable.

@DehnusNorder

3 ай бұрын

The problem is: Ben Glieb will shout like a crazy man when you ask him about this, or put him in a room with a Palestinian to talk (not even debate just a normal talk). This will cause the Palestinian person to just give up and not embarrass himself to stop the shouting. He's a sweet guy, and means well..... but he's is very insecure and not reasonable about this subject. So he doesn't see that he is intimidating folks and that nobody wishes to really converse with him from the other side. As eventually that side will also lose their patience and start shouting back, or worse, just punch his lights out. And nobody, including the other side he is talking with, wants that. Ben Glieb is very emotional (which is not a bad thing, we all have our emotions) about this topic, and clearly is hurting. So why start shouting or attack a man that is hurting. Folks let him be eventually.

@Yogesh-jq9jj

3 ай бұрын

@@DehnusNorder Apart from Cenk, who else has he talked with on this topic ?

@DehnusNorder

3 ай бұрын

@@Yogesh-jq9jjThere are several rants of him online where he also loses composure. The man is clearly hurt and very much involved. So why would anybody calmly sit down and talk with him on this topic, if they are Palestinian or Lebanese American? They'd just feel bad for him, until they are antagonized enough to fire back. After which you get a shouting match. Alternatives, like just letting him shout and go "Are you done with your tantrum?" will only antagonize him more. So it's not a good thing to publicly talk with on a you-tube clip, as nobody sane wants to antagonize a person liek that further as he's already hurt. At to the the hurt of the Palestinian Or Lebanese person ... and it's not a good combination. IN private? Sure those two can talk, but in public it would only be "entertainment" for those that like drama. And both Ben Glieb and the Palestinian or Lebanese Person deserve better than this. Both are not a freak show to be the entertainment for us.

Omg, this discussion of the three most ignorant men I've seen in a long time is nauseating.

I've watched 3 videos on this channel. I'm not well studied w/ the nuances on the issues Israel and Palestine. That being said, the 3 panelists/hosts plus the gentleman Eli Lake haven't done a sevice to shed light on their points of view. Majority of what I've watched is hyperbolic rhetoric without any substantial information & refusal to acknowledge some well documented facts of history. I watched the Mate', Finklestein, and Rothkopf interviews. I feel for the host Noam...because I can see how he is really struggling with this issue of Palestine-Israel.

@royboy4571

2 ай бұрын

He's struggling to justify the unjustifiable. No sympathy for him. Leave for the civilians on both sides, who have been killed, wounded or are still under the ruins.

Mr. Dworman is fighting the cognitive dissonance within himself. Like, really hard. Justifying colonialistic imperialism is not ok.

@md85aus94

3 ай бұрын

But the ottoman empire was totally awesome right?

@KAWood-hl4nw

3 ай бұрын

​@@md85aus94not sure where anyone said that lol

antizionism is not antisemitism

@ShantyIrishman

3 ай бұрын

Yes it is

@EytanKoch

3 ай бұрын

It can be. It's true that not everyone who disagrees with the Israeli government is an antisemite, but every antisemite disagrees with the Israeli government. Same as when Obama was president: Not everyone who disagreed with Obama was a racist, but every racist disagreed with Obama. It's tricky.

@user-hm5mw9er3y

3 ай бұрын

@@EytanKochChristian zionist agree with Israel but they are antisemitic too.

@royboy4571

2 ай бұрын

@@ShantyIrishman So you're on board with the self hating Jew. What absolute BS, it's a trope designed to disingenuously smear any one who criticises Israel. Wake Up Little Suzi, wake up..

It’s true to say that it’s less vulgar - Raw Comedy. And the comedy cellar is expanding, yes.

42:53 exactly. They weren’t going to surrender.

56:11 yes a peacekeeping force might be the right solution here. Because the responsibility then lies in the hands of the global voices. They become responsible for hamas like actors still existing. It’s not Israel policing or any Palestinian authority.

Noam, speaking of being tone deaf, shut up and stop dismissing Periel and cutting her off.

This is content for airheads. You’re not dealing with the facts at all.

Hopefully in youtube you can see something only changing the clip. Goodbye

Im amazed you guys still do this show after getting embarrassed by Norman Finkelstein.

@mmm-mq3zr

3 ай бұрын

They literally have no shame. They have no ability for self-reflection. This is why this keeps on happening over and over again. It's not just 109 times, it is thousands of times in those 109 countries. They will never learn. They have to be shown the right path.

@bobbyd5167

3 ай бұрын

And the rest!😂

@jeremyblock7032

3 ай бұрын

How were they embarrassed? They let him drone on and on about nonsense

@nakedkitten

3 ай бұрын

Ben has lost his mind. He said it's inappropriate. He doesn't live under a hate-filled rein.

@nakedkitten

3 ай бұрын

He believes the propaganda

You really calling cornel west an antisemite? JFC yall have lost the plot

@mannyshouse3708

3 ай бұрын

I'm sorry I didn't speak with more care about Dr. West. I do feel like the atmosphere of the event, the glee of the Nazi comparisons, and the total lack of concern for innocents on both sides, reflected a bigotry. But Dr. West is more complex than simply that explanation. As I said later, he was very warm towards me personally. Noam

@asabry4126

3 ай бұрын

I dgaf if he was "warm" to you. Israeli ministers are explicit about their genocidal intent. The IDF is carrying out that intent. That's why the comparison is being made.

@pyroscopi

3 ай бұрын

@house3708 an apology in a comments section is worthless compared to the slander remaining in the video being broadcasted. To obscure reasonable grievances as unreasonable hatred is the laziest way to villainize a moral person. A pure cop out from engaging with the points being made, not only by Cornel West but also the overwhelming majority of the general public and international community. As Cornel courageously points out, the experience of palestinians in gaza is reminiscent of the expeirence of jews in the warsaw ghetto. You may be incapable of seeing the glaring similarities but to say this statement makes Dr West a bigot or antisemitic is absurd. This metaphor being made is not a condemnation of Jewish People but the actions of a Zionist Regime and Military, therefore not anti-semitic. Your fallacies don't hold up under the slightest of examination. As hard as your work to seem balanced and rational, You have made it clear that you don't have the intellectual or moral grounds to defend your genocidal worldview. Shame on you.

@salonlapre1552

3 ай бұрын

They call Norman Finkelstein an anti-semite

@EytanKoch

3 ай бұрын

@@pyroscopi "The experience of palestinians in gaza is reminiscent of the expeirence of jews in the warsaw ghetto?" It's just not true, though. If you are one of those people that just as a knee-jerk, reflexive anti-Israel take, then I guess just ignore the rest of this comment. Nothing will ever convince you. But if you are actually interested in having an informed opinion about this topic, please do some research on the Warsaw ghetto, and then on Gaza. Don't just take for granted what Cornell West and what Norman Finkelstein say. It doesn't matter if Norm's parents were IN the Warsaw ghetto. Norman is not objective. At all. And he admits it freely. Norm admitted to Marc Lamont Hill: "Fair enough, fair enough; you can claim I have an agenda, and I am tailoring my language to further my agenda." (source: Norman Finkelstein FIRES BACK at Coleman Hughes… “Gaza IS a Concentration Camp!” December 5, 2023 timestamp 14:06). He also admitted as much to Glenn Loury, when he said that in his time speaking to small colleges in the 90s, he was "able to win over large amounts of people to, so to speak, 'the cause'"(source: Why Wokeness Is a Scam | Glenn Loury & Norman Finkelstein | The Glenn Show May 19, 2023 timestamp 6:42). Finally, on October 7 itself, Norm posted this: "I, for one, will never begrudge-on the contrary, it warms every fiber of my soul-the scenes of Gaza’s smiling children as their arrogant Jewish supremacist oppressors have, finally, been humbled." This was before Israel had fired a single bullet or dropped a single bomb on Gaza. Now does that sound like an objective historian, or someone who has clearly chosen a side? True scholars teach history as a story of what actually happened. They don't apply judgements, and they do not try to "win over people" to a "cause." They certainly don't "tailor their language to further their agenda." That's what activists do. That's what advocates do. That's what propagandists do. Norm not actually "pro-truth", as he sometimes says. He has an agenda; he has a cause. And from what I can tell, his cause simply anti-Israel (not even pro-Palestinian; there’s a difference).

It saddens me to know that this racist, zionist supporter of genocide and apartheid owns the Comedy Cellar.

@oh_k8

3 ай бұрын

When you use the R word so loosely, it begins to lose all meaning. Palestinians and Jews share a semitic racial makeup. How is he racist against Palestinians?

50:00 why is the occupation not addressed? How can anyone make serious arguments without addressing this ongoing crime? It's not serious to let him frame this as a matter of radical islam rather than a political matter. Please people, don't be selective just to feel right

By the way, a fair question for Ben to ask Cenk is why he named the organization after the group that committed the 20th century’s first genocide.

@royboy4571

2 ай бұрын

Irrelevant.

@morenitomoreno1282

Ай бұрын

Fair but an even better question is why the government that lectures the world the most on genocide(Israe, indeed), has yet to recognize the Armenian genocide? They call people nazis for not acknowledging the Jewish genocide so what does that make them?

Ben, you say you got behind the campaign when the goal was to eliminate Hamas, that finally was a goal you could back. You also say "this cant keep happening it cant go on anymore" paraphrased... Do you see how the people in Gaza this past 16 years or so, or the West Bank, may also have finally had enough and decided "this cant keep happening" but where the palestinians "this" is as a person without freedom, a person living under a military rule... where you either accept, or you dont, what living in gaza or the west bank has been like for palestinians these past decades... Ending the occupation is a choice which has always been in Israels power... but they chose not to. Why? Is it not decades of military brutality which caused Oct 7th...

@bluecoffee8414

3 ай бұрын

In retrospect, it would have been interesting if the West had just led Saddam occupy Kuwait. The left portrays occupation as not just wrong, but the most unique evil justifying just about any insane or evil behaviour in response. Yet I vividly recall the left wing marching in the streets AGAINST the forceful liberation of Kuwait. If we were now in the 30th year of the Kuwaiti occupation, it would have been interesting to see the left still screaming about Israel while not giving a toss about Kuwait. I grew up in Soviet times with family from Latvia. The left never cared that half of Europe was 'occupied' by the Soviets. The left NEVER described Latvia as an 'open air prison,' despite the fact that, there too, you literally "couldn't leave" and would end up in a concentration camp or dead if you resisted. Russia also "settled" Latvia with nearly 1/3 the population now ethnic Russian 'settlers.' to this day. Same with Cuba. When have you EVER heard a leftist describe Cuba as an 'open air prison,' even though Cubans CANNOT LEAVE. Or resist. Or dissent. Or criticize. I vividly remember when East Germany was occupied, with a giant razor-wired prison wall keeping east Germans 'imprisoned.' Soldiers would stand in watchtowers with machine guns. If any East German tried to make a run for the wall and escape he was shot in the back from the border guards. This is why i simply don't buy the left's unique granstanding over Palestine. there are LOTS of people who adamantly feel they should have an independent state but do not

@EytanKoch

3 ай бұрын

@@bluecoffee8414 What a terrific analysis. Well done.

AMAAAZIN!!! 🇺🇸 😂

24:34 - no they just have no hope

Anti-Semetic ecstasy is crazy

Well… this really makes me hesitate ever going to the club again if I’m tacitly supporting this level of ignorance.

I really like Ben and agree ‘fuck you’ on both..

the video should be released bc our taxes are paying for it

@EytanKoch

3 ай бұрын

Our taxes paid for the video?

Noam. Please don't ever quit. Your podcast has been keeping me sane since October 7 and I'm sure many other Israelis feel the same.

@royboy4571

2 ай бұрын

Noam, please don't stop. Maybe after a thousand more videos, where you bring on experts to debunk you middle class analysis, you will finally realise, your position is partisan and frankly disgusting. I mean, you are able to learn ?

29:00 what did Norman say that was anti-Semitic?

@md85aus94

3 ай бұрын

Rly? He supports hamas and Hezbollah.

@hamiddawgg

3 ай бұрын

@@md85aus94 genuinely asking when? I know he has hesitated to condemn them (hamas at least) but I haven't seen him support them explicitly.

@EytanKoch

3 ай бұрын

@@hamiddawgg Well, for one thing, on 10/7, even before Israel had fired a single bullet or dropped a single bomb on Gaza, Norm said: ""I, for one, will never begrudge-on the contrary, it warms every fiber of my soul-the scenes of Gaza’s smiling children as their arrogant Jewish supremacist oppressors have, finally, been humbled.”

@hamiddawgg

3 ай бұрын

@@EytanKoch yes, he has addressed that many times already. I meant from his round table with the comedy cellar crew. what is she referring to that was antisemitic?

@EytanKoch

3 ай бұрын

@@hamiddawgg oh that. I’d have to go back and look. Maybe nothing. But Noam wasn’t talking about the Comedy Cellar show with Eli Lake. He was talking about a live show Norm did with Cornell West, which I didn’t see.

Just because i don't want to write a long comment, this interview is brain numbing.

IDF and answers???and everything thing right?? Give me a break

I’m 27 minutes in. This opening monologue is madness. This is the rankest apologeia under the guise of being fairminded.

Free Palestine

@samuelgoldring9691

3 ай бұрын

Free Palestine from Hamas indoctrination of murder and hate

remember when gleib ran for president? and he was actually really serious and pathetic?

You say: "the threat has to be destroyed" but how would you term the way palestinians have been living under Israeli military rule? Have they not been living under constant threat? Have they not lived with that threat becoming a reality daily as IDF soldiers armed and with dogs raid their homes in the middle of the night and steal away their child or their father to be tortured and imprisoned without due legal process and held without charge for months or years? I dont understand how you are framing the "threat" upon Israel when the entire world knows how Palestinians have lived under israeli military control and threat for decades. What do you see that i am not seeing?

@Themlpg73

3 ай бұрын

Yeah he thinks everyone will be safe if Hamas surrenders. Like everything was fine before oct 7 and Gazans haven't been killed for decades.

@EytanKoch

3 ай бұрын

I don't think you are fully comprehending what is happening here. Maybe you should visit Israel and feel what it's like to hear a bomb siren go off and have to run to the nearest shelter. Or be waiting for a bus only to have armed men jump out of a car and shoot you, as happened on November 30, 2023. Or stopping in a pizzeria to grab a slice, only to be blown up by a suicide bomber, as happened time and time again during the second intifada. I don't know why your mind is so poisoned, but Israel's tough treatment of both the West Bank and Gaza is a function of the violence that comes out of there. October 7 was just another example of that. But check out what former Israeli prime minister Yair Lapid said to the UN in 2022: "“An agreement with the Palestinians, based on two states for two peoples, is the right thing for Israel’s security, for Israel’s economy and for the future of our children. “Peace is not a compromise. It is the most courageous decision we can make. Peace is not weakness. It embodies within it the entire might of human spirit. War is surrender to all that is bad within us. Peace is the victory of all that is good. “Despite all the obstacles, still today a large majority of Israelis support the vision of this two state solution. I am one of them. “We have only one condition: That a future Palestinian state will be a peaceful one. That it will not become another terror base from which to threaten the well-being, and the very existence of Israel. That we will have the ability to protect the security of all the citizens of Israel, at all times… “In this building, we’ve been asked more than once why we do not lift the restrictions on Gaza. We’re ready to do that, tomorrow morning. We’re ready to do more than that. I say from here to the people of Gaza, we’re ready to help you build a better life, to build an economy. We presented a comprehensive plan to help rebuild Gaza. “We only have one condition: Stop firing rockets and missiles at our children. Put down your weapons, there will be no restrictions. Put down your weapons, bring home our children who are being held in captivity - Hadar and Oron, may their memory be a blessing; Avera and Hisham, who are still alive - and we will build your economy together. “We can build your future together, both in Gaza and in the West Bank. Put down your weapons and prove that Hamas and Islamic Jihad are not going to take over the Palestinian state you want to create. Put down your weapons, and there will be peace.” End quote. Palestinian response? Crickets.

I love this podcast. Very thoughtful in contrast to Finkelstein, West, and Cenk Uigher (sp?). They are so radically one sided and blind to nuance.

@royboy4571

2 ай бұрын

Your projecting here.

This panel.. omg.. so one sided

I dont know how this popped up in my feed after watching Democracy Now. Disgusting! Israel is guilty of comitting this ongoing genocide. And it is clearly an apartheid state. It is not off base to make comparisons to South Africa and the Nazis.

Why not?.. you owe it to the audience

Noam, you try to be more fair, balanced, and understanding of the other side than any other podcaster on either side of the conflict. And you get zero credit for that. That’s a shame. I appreciate your intellectual honesty. I mean your pro-Israel bias shines through - how could it not - but you are aware of it and you still try to be as fair as possible. Just came to say that. Say hi to Rahj for me next time you see him. Lol

@royboy4571

2 ай бұрын

Said no one. My God, he tries miserably to gaslight the viewers he is objective. Wake Up Little Suzi, wake up.....

Okay, this misconception about Arab countries needs to stop, as not all Arabs are the same ethnic group. The reason they are called Arab countries is that Arabic is the primary language, and that is down to the Islamic empire - and yes, as such there shared traditions, values, etc. The people in Morocco are different to the people in Egypt, are different to the people in the Levant, and are different to the people in the gulf - heck, even their Arabic dialects are on entirely different wavelengths. Saying they’re all the same people is like saying all of Europe is the same group of people (or even China where you have Tibetans, Uygers, Mongols, and many more). The Arab world is a mixture, filled with intermarriage and mixing. Somebody of Kurdish origin in Iraq is an Arab, as is a Nubian Egyptian, as is a Berber Algerian, as is a Palestinian of Armenian heritage. So please, stop this argument. A Yemeni would never identify Tunisia as home, in the same way a Palestinian would not identify anywhere else in the Arab world as home.

Your comments are mostly negative. I'm not Jewish but I appreciate your take and arguments (Noam and his crew). You do a good job of covering this conflict

@royboy4571

2 ай бұрын

MMM, may be if most of the comments call out Noam's disingenuousness , its telling you something.

I'm sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians & Noam is very fair. I cant say the same about the other hosts on this show.

It's funny how many of the comments find you guys and gal ignorant and lyers. I find you very balanced and just stating facts. And I'm not negating you have biases. We all have biases and you all seemed to be transparent about them. So thanks for that. Thanks for your compassion for all people. It's amazing how totally blindly biased some of your viewers are. Why do they even bother listening to your podcast other than to demonize you. Shalom.

@royboy4571

2 ай бұрын

I agree, why do we agree to listen to Naom, who back in November, was adamant Israel would never attempt to starve the Gazans. His bias is so pathetic, but he fools many by gaslighting his objective bon fides. I mean the comments are a good reflection of how many see through Noam's pro-Israel take.

What about being more careful on 57 years of occupation? For gods sake!!! Any decent human being can percibe clearly this, it's not complicated. Although i have to say Noam is doing its Best. Excuse My Bad english

What fucking planet is this guy on lmao

God cornel and Norman are the worst ones to talk about this shit jfc those 2 suck. Good on you Noam for how you are handling all of this truthfully. Some of the comments are brain dead insanity in this comment section.

@DanCiuciulea

3 ай бұрын

But do you believe they are antisemitism?

@TommyNicoletti

3 ай бұрын

@@DanCiuciuleahuh? Could you try again I’m confused with the phrasing.

@royboy4571

2 ай бұрын

Translation : Yeah, I believe in the takes of a partisan pro-Israel hack like Noam, rather than a Jewish scholar like NF, who has spent his entire academic life studying the conflict, because, because he sucks. And just because the majority of the comments in this thread call out Noam's disingenuousness, I'm gonna say they are brain dead. There, I win.

I love ben, he even says a lot of correct things but You fail at empathy when it's personal. it's sad to see man

I don't think your conversation was fair. Debate these 2 sides of the conflict with journalist or historians who can push back on your arguments, not a random internet comenter. I'm no expert but I 've read a lot of news and history and there are arguments I could easily refute yours. The right of people to defend themselves is both for Isrealis and Palestinians, pre October 7th Gaza and West Bank were not autonomous which could have lead to prosperity and I have read Isreali laws do not permit gay marriage meaning it's not a lone bastion of liberal democracy in the region. And the issue that pains me the most is there is not excuse for killing thousands of children even if they are used by Hamas or the brutal attack on Israelis.

@EytanKoch

3 ай бұрын

I can't quite agree with most of your points. First, about Noam being "fair": Noam has had on his show the most vociferous pro-Palestine voices in the world, from Norman Finkelstein to Rashid Khalidi to Ken Roth, to Robert Wright, and others. He almost never has true pro-Israel voices on his show. If you missed those, go back and watch his videos. Second, about gay marriage, don't listen to Briahna. This is a massive bad faith, straw man argument. There is literally no comparison between how Palestine and Israel treats their LGBT communities. It's true that right now, gay marriage is illegal to be performed in Israel - although it's recognized if performed elsewhere, and also, there's a "virtual marriage" option available even within Israel. Let’s keep in mind that until 2015, gay marriage was illegal in the US also (except in a few states). But let's look at what Amnesty International said about LGBTI rights in Palestine vs Israel as recently as 2022. First, on Palestine: "Authorities failed to prevent and investigate homophobic and transphobic threats and attacks. On 9 July, security forces stood by and watched as a mob beat youths and children participating in a parade organized by Ashtar Theatre in Ramallah that included rainbow flags. The attack came amid a wave of incitement to violence and hate speech against LGBTI people and feminists that the authorities failed to investigate." Now, in the same report, here's what Amnesty said about Israel: "On 14 February, Israel’s health ministry published a circular banning medical practitioners from conducting medical “conversion therapy” to change the sexual orientation of gay and lesbian individuals, but failed to grant it legislative status.” So in Palestine, authorities stand by and do nothing as gay people get beaten in the streets. In Israel, the government tries to pass legislation banning conversion therapy. Not even close. Third, I do agree that it's heart-wrechingly tragic that massive numbers of children are dying in Gaza, but keep in mind, Hamas started this war. Before October 7, there was an occupation, yes, (which I do not support, by the way), but 30,000 Palestinians were still alive that are not today. Hamas started this tragedy, and they need to end it, by surrendering.

@baristadiva

3 ай бұрын

I can agree with your point that both parties in that region have troubling views on homosexuality. But on your other points I must disagree. Noam is the pro Israel voice in every conversation, some would say as he should be, it being his show. But the what I can't understand is anyone saying Hamas started the war. I think any even surface reading of history will show the wars and conflicts have been going back a very long time. Starting the converstaion only on Oct 7th is not right. No mater how horrific those attacks on civilians were. Any attack on cilvilians over the past 75 years has been a disaster. @@EytanKoch

@EytanKoch

3 ай бұрын

​@@baristadiva 1. Actually, my point was not that "both parties in that region have troubling views on homosexuality." My point was that Israel treats its LGBT community way better than Palestine does. And it's not even close. 2. You claim this war didn't start October 7. Fine. Let's consider October 6, then: - On 10/6, there was a years-long ceasefire between Israel and Hamas; - On 10/6, hundreds of innocent Gazan lives were not being lost every day; - On 10/6, thousands of Gazans had work permits to work in Israel for 4 times the amount they would have made in Gaza; - On 10/6, Gazans were not starving; - On 10/6, Gazans had houses, not rubble; - On 10/6, Israelis living in Southern Israel, who supported Palestinian freedom, did not have their houses invaded, were not being gunned down and burned; - On 10/6, there were no Israeli hostages held in Gaza by Hamas; - On 10/6, young people from all over the world who came to a music festival were dancing the night away, alive and well, and just having a great time. On October 7, Hamas changed all that. They broke the ceasefire. They attacked Israel in a way no one had seen in decades. So yes. This war started on October 7. There’s not a single Palestinian who wouldn’t jump at the chance to go back to October 6 conditions. Hamas knew FULL WELL that Israel's response would result in the deaths of thousands of innocent Gazans. Yet they attacked anyway: so the death of around 1200 innocent Israelis, to Hamas, was well worth the current death toll of 30,000 + Gazans. How do I know Hamas knew that Israel would respond disproportionately and overwhelmingly? Because EVERYONE knew. I knew. You knew. Hamas, of course, better than anyone else at all, knew that Israel's response would be horrific. Hamas also knew that Israel controlled the water and electricity (for the most part). They knew what Israel would do in response to a massive attack. And yet they attacked anyhow. In their attack, they guaranteed the destruction of Gaza. And they did so happily. The absolute, inescapable fact is that every single one of the 30,000 tragically dead Gazans would still be alive if Hamas did not attack on October 7. Yes, the occupation has to end. I think it's unjust and terrible. But no, the occupation does not justify killing innocent civilians, men, women, babies...who had nothing whatsoever to do with the occupation.

Ben Gleib is a narcissist D list comedian who thought he had a chance at being the new host of the daily show despite nobody knowing who he is and some how beating out an entire cast of comedians who are household names who have worked on the show for over a decade.

Arafat wanted an international peacekeeping force in the Jericho. Israel rejected it.

They were IDF soldiers. Soldiers in the IDF “Very harsh criticism “. Certainly not warranted against any army that makes TICK TOCKS of rejoicing in the deaths and vandalism of “ Nazis, not technically, but fascists… admittedly so. See Ben-Gvir, Smotrich, et al. 2IDF soldiers who are no longer IDF soldiers (Breaking the Silence “soldiers “) are the only legitimate sources speaking on the IDF, occupation and systematic repression of Palestinians. Anyone else is ludicrously complicit if not personally responsible for atrocities. I’m waiting for the following interviews: Ilan Pappe Gideon Levy Avi Shalim The general’s son

@EytanKoch

3 ай бұрын

LOL…Finkelstein, Khalidi, Roth, Wright not good enough for you, huh? Interesting how you’re only waiting for people who will confirm your preconceived notions, isn’t it? They call that an echo chamber. Why not do some real research? Read a little. And not just from YOUR side. Benny Morris Tom Friedman Conor Cruise O’Brien Walter Laquer Dan Schueftan Jeffery Herf Michael Oren Aaron David Miller Shlomo Ben-Ami Einat Wilf Dennis Ross These are just some authors who really are pretty balanced. None of them takes it easy on Israel. They just report things as they are. And many others. Broaden your perspective. Good luck. I have a feeling you have no interest in taking me up on this because your mind is likely totally closed to views that don’t simply boil down to Israel = evil. But just in case.

This discussion is ao tone deaf.Starting from the premises that your comfortable giving an internationally recognized occupier the benefit of the doubt is baseless and shows a level of indifference and bias.Its laughable.

Noam, please don’t stop posting on this topic. So many diaspora Jews are homeless right now - repulsed by the anti-liberal values on all sides. You are continuing the foundational Jewish traditions of reasoned argument and compassion for the least among us. The comments on your videos must be so disappointing.

@hiliemanuel5676

3 ай бұрын

I second

I agree that Hamas is to blame for its violence the current deaths. but this leads me not to an answer but more questions about blame. If the the occupation of Gaza does not justify killing innocent civilians, men, women, babies...who had nothing whatsoever to do with the occupation., what justifies the killing of 30,000 Gazans? we won't get to full understanding here but I will continue to listen to this podcast even when I disagree. and I welcome criticism when I feel the need to post my opinion. thanks for this converstion. it makes me think.

@EytanKoch

3 ай бұрын

@baristadiva It seems to me that the idea here is that Israel is making this war different from the last 4 wars against Hamas. In each of the previous wars, Israel agreed to a cease fire, which simply allowed for Hamas to recover, re-arm, and attack again. Finally, the end result of this was October 7. Israel decided that this time, it has no choice other than to completely destroy Hamas, so that future wars will be prevented. The 30,000 casualties are tragic and heart wrenching, no doubt. Israel does not target civilians, unlike Hamas. But Hamas' use of human shields pretty much ensures the death toll will be high. Human shields benefit Hamas in at least 2 ways: first, it definitely discourages Israel from attacks in which too many civilians would die for too little military advantage, and contrary to what you might have heard, there have been many, many potential targeted attacks that have been aborted because too many civilians would have died. Hamas knows full well that if it did not use human shields, it would have no chance against Israel. Second, a high death count serves Hamas well in the propaganda war, as it creates world sympathy for Hamas (or at least, the Palestinians), and causes the world to place international pressure on Israel for a ceasefire. Hamas knows this works because it has done this in the last 4 wars, and in fact, that is exactly why Israel agreed to cease fires in the last 4 wars, only to end up with Hamas committing the atrocities of October 7. It's a shit show no matter how you look at it, and tens of thousands are dead, and sadly, until Hamas releases the hostages and surrenders, we can expect far more innocents to die as well.

Gay marriage is illegal in Israel. Interfairh marriage is also illegal in Israel.

@EytanKoch

3 ай бұрын

@DCwolverine Don't listen to Briahna. I know that's where you heard this. This is a massive bad faith, straw man argument. If you think for even one second that there is ANY comparison between how LGBT are treated in Israel versus Palestine, you're crazy. It's true gay marriage is illegal to be performed in Israel - although it's recognized if performed elsewhere, and also, there's a "virtual marriage" option available even within Israel . Let's keep in mind that gay marriage wasn't legal in the US until 2015. Still: let's look at what Amnesty International said about how the LGBTI community is treated in Israel as opposed to Palestine as recently as 2022. First, on Palestine: "Authorities failed to prevent and investigate homophobic and transphobic threats and attacks. "On 9 July, security forces stood by and watched as a mob beat youths and children participating in a parade organized by Ashtar Theatre in Ramallah that included rainbow flags. The attack came amid a wave of incitement to violence and hate speech against LGBTI people and feminists that the authorities failed to investigate." Now, in the same report, here's what Amnesty said about Israel: "On 14 February, Israel’s health ministry published a circular banning medical practitioners from conducting medical “conversion therapy” to change the sexual orientation of gay and lesbian individuals, but failed to grant it legislative status.” So in Palestine, authorities stand by and do nothing as gay people get beaten in the streets. In Israel, they try to pass legislation banning conversion therapy. Not even close.

@DCwolverine

3 ай бұрын

@@EytanKoch If Israel is concerned with how gays are treated in the occupied territories, then why doesnt the IOF do something about it. They love being brutal to the indiginous Palestinians. No, I learned through my travels to the area. I saw rascist Apartheid with my own eyes. I know what it is like to wait at a check point for hours, even with a US Passport. I have seen how Palestinians are treated by the fascist Zionists. As far as rule of law in Palestine, you can not ever make comparisons to the occupiers or any sovereign nation for that matter. I know that Palestine would be a secular nation if they had the rights of others. They would show the middle east what REAL equality looks like. Even after Oslo, which was a joke, Arafars first hire was a Palestinian Jewish Rabbi. Just amazing how the pro Zionist fascists try to play whataboutism game. The fact of the matter is this. Israel can and never will be a democratic state. Theocracy is the dream of that fascist nation. Hamas, Isis, AlQueda would never have existed if Palestine were free and independant. I know that is too much for you to wrap your brain around. It has and always will be the occupation. Until that ends, you can never fairly judge a country under illegal occupation with the country that is the occupier. That is Political Science/History 101.

... okay, so i took a break to watch a movie with my kids and partner and hit play to resume your conversation... and what im now hearing is surreal. You both believe Israel withdrawing settlements was a gift to the Gazans, and they just brought this hell onto their own heads... no, the blackade begun immediately. You speak of a peaceful land with hotels, and strangely, you believe this wasn't possible, not because of the blockade, the strict control of who goes in and out, the strict calorie count and 'treats' controlled by Israel, the violence in the West Bank being overseen and armed by Israel and its IDF, the indoctrination of people as old as you Naom, such as Miko Peled, so long before Israels blockade, but because the Gazans are maniacs who just dont want peace... You both speak of that one day last year as though it were decades of brutality... I guess youve both answered my previous questions... you are comfortable in your homes thousands of miles.away and you are so convicted to your reactions that youd lose face if you actually owned the why to why oct 7th happened.... yeah, you are i guess unable to see whats true... Why do i ever think these conversations will be based in reality... i give up. Hope you wake up soon and quit lying to justify the slaughter.

@hardworkingwoman3780

3 ай бұрын

​@DrpervasiveId yeah, and the IDF brutalise, murder, kidnap, torture & humiliate innocent civilians because... ? Oh yeah I got it, because they're scared that's it! Got a big ass gun and lots of big ass armed buddies and tanks, but have you seen those six year olds with their grannies, they can be ugly when hungry... scary as man!! Shoot who you want big ass, hangry is a crime for sure.

@EytanKoch

3 ай бұрын

A couple points here. First of all, let's understand why there was a blockade. It wasn't just because Israel enjoys blockading Gaza for no reason. It's because Hamas was smuggling arms from Iran, Syria, and Turkey to use against Israel. Second, let's set the record straight. There was a blockade, but don't believe ole Norm on the calorie counting business. There is no evidence it ever happened. Yes, there was a document found with a plan, but there is no evidence the plan was ever implemented. Even if it was implemented, and it wasn't, the plan called for an average of 2300 calories per day, because that's how many calories the average Israeli consumes. I'm not sure if you are from the US, but if you are, take a look at any food label. The US recommended daily allowances are all based on a 2,000 calories/day diet. So it's hardly a "diet just above starvation", as Norm likes to say. In any case, just to reiterate once again, there is no evidence this plan was ever implemented. Third, as for the "why" behind October 7, that's pretty simple. It's Hamas living up to its charter of destroying Israel. It has nothing to do with Israel's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Hamas doesn't want a single Jew in the Middle East. If Israel were to end the occupation and create a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza, which I think they should, Hamas would not be satisfied. They've said this again and again. They will not stop attacking Israel until Israel is destroyed. Ghazi Hamad, a Hamas spokesman, told Lebanese TV channel LBC TV this, on October 24, 2023: "We must teach Israel a lesson, and we will do this again and again. The al-Aqsa flood [the name Hamas uses for the October 7 attack] is just the first time, and there will be a second, a third, and a fourth because we have the determination, resolve, and capabilities to fight. Will we have to pay a price? Yes, and we are ready to pay it. We are called "a nation of martyrs", and we are proud to sacrifice martyrs. The occupation must come to an end." The reporter says, "occupation where? The Gaza Strip?" Hamad responds, "No, I am talking about all the Palestinian lands." Reporter: "Does that mean the annihilation of Israel?" Hamad: "Yes, of course. The existence of Israel is illogical. The existence of Israel is what causes all that pain, blood, and tears. It is Israel, not us. We are the victims of the occupation. Period. Therefore, nobody should blame us for the things we do. On October 7, October 10, October 1,000,000 - everything we do is justified." So you see, that is why they attacked. It's got nothing to do with the West Bank or Gaza. It has to do with Israel, period. Hamas will attack Israel again and again until it is destroyed.

@joge2468

3 ай бұрын

I’m not sure I understand. Do you have a timestamp of where Noam said he didn’t believe Palestinians were capable of having nice hotels because they are maniacs? Many people are surprised to learn of any luxury facilities in Gaza (pre 10/07). Hamas has done a great job of convincing the world that Gaza is all misery and deprivation.

@hardworkingwoman3780

Ай бұрын

@DrpervasiveId hamas fighters are created by Israel's brutal illegal occupation / violent land thefts /blockade / torture / rape /kidnap and generally all round undisputed heavily recorded terrorist behaviour towards Palestinians in both the west bank and Gaza. The solution to peace in that region has only ever been for Israel to end their violent land thefts / occupation and terror activity towards the indigenous arabs of all faiths in that region... but that's never happened because Israel are a US / UK / western nation proxy protecting their theft of the mineral rich resources. None of these nations wanted the Jews to settle in their countries out of pure racist motivations - plenty of historical evidence and analysis proving that.

@hardworkingwoman3780

Ай бұрын

@joge2468 haha so gazans under the age of 17 born there have never crossed the fortified structures and heavily military armed checkpoints into East Jerusalem to pray at their mosques or to enter any land bordering the strip because gaza is so idyllic they just never want to leave 😂😂 It's helpful for people to hear / read how the narrative goes for terrorist deniers. Truly enlightening, ty

You treated the antisemitic people like vip's? Lol.

Noam, if you think that palestinians haven't been oppressed by israelis for a very long time, talking about intifada and children dying, no it was not in response to oct 7th war response, but it certainly was response to the atrocities being committed against them still. until you acknowledge that there is an occupation, and that israel should give back the west bank to palestinians, then there is nothing to say. because you don't want to know the reasons that people go crazy and blow themselves up and kill israelis. peaceful protest was not accepted and in fact met with violent response by israel. what do you want an oppressed people to do to free themselves? oppressors don't respond to asking nicely.

Here is an annoying thing about Ben: He is very 'glass half-full' when describing the treatment of Arabs inside Israel. "Supreme court justice." "20% of the foctors" etc. He also knows knows that Israelis are routinely and unfairly smeared as discriminatory and rather cruel racists, even towards Israeli Arabs. Yet...when he covers the US, he takes the opposite teck: publicly agreeing with treating every white person to the right of him like cruel, oppressive inhumane racists. Yet if that is your standard, there is no way that eg white Republicans are racist oppressors but Israelis are not.