The main problem is that there is no overarching game design anymore. There are no dedicated healers, damage dealers and tanks. Everyone does everything and players have no "role" to fufill. True satisfaction comes from imrpoving and executing your role, which also makes the game more strategic and dependent on each other. But Riot just wants flashy plays, not tactics :(

@soulstalker4624

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, they keep adding self-heals to champs like Sylas and it's just gonna be the typical "You get one shotted by me while I heal 80% of my Hp"

@usarhabilidade2697

Жыл бұрын

[Someone on Riot HQ] Wait..are you telling me you dont want a champ that has one hundred dashes, healing, extreme amounts of damage and 9 different passives?!?! Are you telling me that actually wants a character that has...Weaknesses?? This soooooooooooo 2018 baby, no one wants balanced characters with clear weakness and strengths! they want a character that can do Pentakill! They want the damage of an ADC, With the mobility of assassin, that has the survivability of a top, That's why we created ZER- I mean.....while older Champs have that...weak...Weakness...WeaKNe [Sorry this word gives me nausea] While older characters have..disadvantages..in certain areas or newer and approved have 200 years development!! Like really what games are you playing, Minecraft....?

@srotiikk1560

Жыл бұрын

​@@soulstalker4624 Sylas is ok with having a heal, he's a battlemage, the problem is that he can oneshot you with only E whilst also having 4000hp due to how broken mage items are

@stordoy

Жыл бұрын

​@usarhabilidade2697 yes, weak characters like Olaf (2010), Garen (2010) and Darius (2012). Very balanced

@Spherecaster

Жыл бұрын

@@srotiikk1560 so instead of just nerfing one champ that's abusing them and against whom those same items are dogshit, we need to nerf that entire set of items that will then negatively affect the entire mage class just to knock Sylas down a peg? Truly 200 years of experience

Ok but can we talk about how the patch that was supposed to make the game less one-shot-y Suddenly brought us back full circle 1 year later

@NRVNQSRR

Жыл бұрын

I remember the damage squish, but everyone cried.

@cloudwalker9572

Жыл бұрын

Buff and nerf, things go back to what they were before except for the characters getting forgotten Riot always operated like this.

@indigodegelder

Жыл бұрын

legit got oneshot in0.8 seconds by a rengar when we are both full build and lvl 18 but i was a hecarim with plated steelcaps my W on reuslting in 200 armor, 4k hp and 12% auto damage reduction. I dare say it got worse, rengar could always oneshot squishies but never a bruiser or tank unless hes really far ahead and as i stated we are both full build and lvl 18.

@froggamer4884

Жыл бұрын

@@NRVNQSRRtouhou fan spotted :D

@NRVNQSRR

Жыл бұрын

@@froggamer4884 True, I love the game.

as an Aatrox main, I want my drain tank back, not this psuedo assassin/tank support with barely any healing

@cockus4192

Жыл бұрын

yes we need the 100% pick/ban competitive and 70% pick/ban solo q aatrox again i'd love that i miss those times when he'd get a rework every three weeks

@kraftyevan

Жыл бұрын

@@cockus4192 Dude, Aatrox players aren't talking about the abomination that was Jak'Sho > Ravenous. We want old Goredrinker Aatrox that rewarded intelligent bait and punish play. Yeah we could get a full heal, but Darius can pentadunk and Garen can 35% HP a 10k HP Cho'Gath.

@MrXaoras

Жыл бұрын

so you want the one that solo carried and ruined worlds coz they buffed him right before?

@cloudwalker9572

Жыл бұрын

I just want the Aatrox that actually auto attacked, got his brk and healed a ton through autos or more simply before his rerelease sorry I mean "rework"

@AlMeZero

Жыл бұрын

I want my damn blood price/thirst back

I strongly relate with the "Whatever is happening down there"

Overhaul to bruisers won't do shit. Core game mechanics of game (attention: game, not genre) are compromised. League needs complete overhaul. Riot need to take strategic approach instead of "flashy" approach. They need to make their minds regarding what they want to see for every champ. Either way any change they'd do will be failure.

@user-vy9mk7um1b

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, game mechanics of the game, I know.

@cloudynguyen6527

Жыл бұрын

@@user-vy9mk7um1b One thing I'm looking forward is items. In DOTA 2, items are expensive, and the stats aren't even the focus of that item. Instead, what you purchase is the passive or active component of that item. Because DOTA 2 heroes aren't flashy like League, so their items are allowed to be versatile and complicated. However, when it comes to League, mastering your champion abilities are already stressful enough. I don't think introduce more active items to League will benefit it. Majority of League players express to me that they don't like active items because it takes too much mental space for them. League is way less stressful than DOTA 2 so I can understand the gam's appeal. What I think is League item needs to introduce more counterplay and neutral. For counterplay, I can only think of Serpant's Fang and Silver Sash on top of my head. For neutral, I think Zhonya is the most perfect item. It has both advantage and disadvantage. A well timed Zhonya can either save your ass or usher your doom. But the remaining items in League are mostly stats buff. I hope items in League can have more variety and complexity, without putting the player too much burden at the press of the button. I'm speaking from experience. League players really really despise pressing item buttons.

@walkelftexasranger

Жыл бұрын

@@cloudynguyen6527 I am not a fan of comparing LoL with DotA 2. League is fast and flashy, while DotA 2 is slower and more strategical (just like it's ancestor Warcraft), so the balance and core mechanics of the game are completely different.

@user-vy9mk7um1b

Жыл бұрын

​@@cloudynguyen6527, doubt that work. Items are more a symptom, than core of a problem. Champ design is closer to core of problems, since it's items, which are additions to champs, not champs to items... It's kinda hard for me to explain, since I can't come up with something concrete, that will encapsulate everything, and not abstarct, but I'll try. Probably, the core of problems right now in League is that Riot blurred stuff in game. One of the biggest troubles for Riot was (and, probably even still is) that jungle and support roles were unpopular. And their solutions were autofill and flex picks. And the second solution spoiled everything, since flex picks have quite a paradox for balance - it's, well, their flexibility. Like usually how it goes: either smth is good at one thing, bad at another, or mediocre at everything. And with flex picks that won't work. There is no meaning to weaken flex pick - they will pay for having strengths on other roles on current one, where they are picked. And there is no meaning to keep them strong - specialists will lose in popularity not because they have specific design or smth, but mere for being specialists. I'd say they need to go, as Green Goblin said, "back to formula". Define exactly, what even the most basic things exists for. Roles. Champs. Mechanics and stats they have. Everything.

@bramt2000

Жыл бұрын

@@cloudynguyen6527 I just watched back the finals of season one and what I can conclude from this is that league just isnt that warcraft 3 clone anymore. Those finals felt incredibly slow and scaly, thats not what Riots view is of league. Everything needs to be flashy and fast, and that goes for the game duration as well. More damage = less long games.

For me it’s the items, basically no variety, gotta pick the same items every game and what is supposed to be a skill match up turns into who’s jg ganks more or first each game (not mine though, those mfs never gank)

@Squilurple

Жыл бұрын

You forgot about the mids and sups wandering up too.

@bruhmoment4635

Жыл бұрын

@@Squilurple true, and they don’t get punished neither do the jg, gank can fail and they lose nothing

@mechanicalsilence1

Жыл бұрын

@@bruhmoment4635 you lose time and pressure because now the ennemy knows where you are.

@blero9089

Жыл бұрын

Bro you got the lane which is the most likely to take a double kill if the jgl comes and wdym no variety in bruiser items ? It's literally the class with the most variety. Botrk for dueling, black clever for hast or antitank, maw or silver for ap, divine sun against tank, eclipse for more burst style and its even possible to go tank, hullbreaker to splitpush, the hydra has 2 variant , there are items adapted to specific characters, to specific situations and against specific type of champion.

@bramt2000

Жыл бұрын

@@bruhmoment4635 I thought the era of the neverending roaming support was gone when they nerfed the xp you'd get as support. Here I go playing against a shaco support that is perma roaming and irritating my jungler as well while not losing any levels.

I wouldn’t really call reksai cheesy she was always meant to be a bruiser she just fell off so hard people just played her like an assassin, recent buffs made her really strong tho. Reksai top was always viable its just that now its actually good

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

I always thought Riot didn't want to keep bruiser Rek'Sai, like when they nerfed her base damage and gave her higher bonus AD ratios

@user-fp8mn6sv5c

Жыл бұрын

@@minimoYT They also gave her more "assasin like" ult to fit into her new role

@wolfgangabelmann3109

Жыл бұрын

btw reksai mid is completely underrated u can rly stomp lane push tower hard see if u get gsnked set some tunnels to the lane plus roam

@fullsoul5727

Жыл бұрын

as a reksai player, i would say reksai is prettyyyyy cheesy im ngl she does some stupid sh*t but yeah shes kinda in this weird spot where she doesn't know if she is a bruiser or assassin, even before the buffs. also yah reksai mid goes hard bro

@coldconcept1

Жыл бұрын

She is cheesy, I played versus her just now. She didn't go back to base for 11 minutes thanks to healing lol

Think they should have categorized items like how runas is ranged only. Will make stuff much easier to balance. If riot likes the idea of multiple roles having overlapping items, they can do it without letting adcs in to the party.

@nathanielrobles3284

10 ай бұрын

Yeah and those items with dashes should only have a dash if your champion is imobile and make multiple dashing champions like lucian, ez, vayne(tumble) so hard to kill.

@atsukana1704

9 ай бұрын

Its something I have been already saying for a bit now but the item system is the source of half of league’s balance issues and it would be so much easier to balance if things were more like HotS, where you get specific skill upgrades. You could still use a gold system to but them or whatever and in HotS there is still build diversity, if not more than league where building ap malphite technically does something but its absolute troll. With a skill system or at least isolated variables for individuals it makes it much easier to just adjust the nobs on one character without shotgunning the others like the triforce change. It is also worth noting that the balance of HotS is actually really solid despite not having a balance change since it went into maintenance mode. Yet nothing has really turned overpowered over time. Much of the time the issue comes from people abusing things where they don’t belong and a simple exclusivity sytem would enable that. In league even having certain items be class locked would be fine, people would whine, but it would be healthier for the game.

Can you talk about tank supports? They're not tanky at all especially compared to actual tanks or even adcs building tank. I love your content!

@walkelftexasranger

Жыл бұрын

"Tank Support" is just fancy name for "CC Bot"

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

I'll put it on the bucket list, playing Nautilus with Shurelya made me realize how much you don't really need tankiness, because you'll get melted anyway

@nightcorechords5705

Жыл бұрын

That is because they have to reduce the stats on tank support items in order to make them cheaper and affordable for support standars + there is relic shield taking up one of your slots and giving you around 250 HP which is like nothing... So in the end you are left with 1 or 2 real tank items.

@Ryan_Samuelson

Жыл бұрын

Supports are extra buttons for their glass cannon lane partner, that can occasional be used for the benefit of someone on the team other than the bot laner, however there is a 5% chance each time this is done that said bot laner will go AFK.

@popamihnea6695

Жыл бұрын

If you go Evenshroud Mask/Anatema and Aftershock on those supports you will be tanky for sure. They cant be as tanky as Top lane tanks or Junglers because they are theoretically a low income role but they are actually designed to be powerful even without gold. Like go ARAM and see when a support is on even gold with others how incredibly tanky Leona, Nautilius, Braum, Thresh become.

Honestly I think they should limit more items to melee only or ranged only - it won’t fix every issue, but it should fix *some* of the classes taking other classes’ stuff

@nuhardusnytitdigivafflan8511

Жыл бұрын

Like which items? The problem is that a lot of strong items will be built by other melee champs aswell. Goredrinker for assasins and prowlers for some bruisers

what really needs to happen, is do the wall, like loltyler1 claimed, and junglers are allowed to gank after 7 - 8 minutes. Also, have drake spawn in around top and rift around bot 50% of the time, and if drake spawned in bot, it'll spawn around top 100% and vice versa.

@goldenarmour7975

Жыл бұрын

Making the herald/dragon spawns random is genius imo. That would fix the game and make it more fun.

@meme_lover.69

Жыл бұрын

@@goldenarmour7975 and it'll convince the down syndrome clowns to finally gank top

@lordhallibel3604

Жыл бұрын

@@goldenarmour7975 it wouldnt fix it, just make it more random. red and blue buff should randomly leave jugnle to attack fed players

@goldenarmour7975

Жыл бұрын

@@lordhallibel3604 ?

@123deserted

Жыл бұрын

@@lordhallibel3604 hahahhahahhahashahahha that thought is hilarous, red buff just comes from toplane and kills your recalling 1hp adc

Tanks and bruisers just can't take a moment of rest with their items

@dankmemes8254

Жыл бұрын

You know what is funny pre season 13 meta was ironically a bruiser meta of "who can use jak'sho/ravenous Hydra better than the intended users" no really jak'sho was a better item on bruisers than on tanks in preseason and ravenous Hydra is just absurd back then

@elia0162

Жыл бұрын

Bro pls don't speak of tank the most broken role of the game top chart damage and unkillable

@chiq3531

Жыл бұрын

@@dankmemes8254 remember that time. I actually already knew it would happen from seeing it on PBE because it's literally what happened S11 and 12 and why they tried the Tank Item rework in the first place.

@chiq3531

Жыл бұрын

@@elia0162 oh sorry pls im but an assassin main riot pls let me 1 shot the 10 CS Sion with a zed combo to put it on my outplay montage

i like top champions but i hate toplane... KLEEED MID

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

Time for River Shen

@PhrenSo768

Жыл бұрын

I like mid champs but hate mid so I go Ekko top hehe

@cloudwalker9572

Жыл бұрын

I like bottom champions but I hate botlane... VAYNE TOP (not me but that's the same idea xD)

@peristeronic5520

Жыл бұрын

I like adcs but hate bot lane. M7 trist and varus mid :).

I honestly think the problem with bruisers as a class is that their items are by nature very exploitable for adcs and assassins. Bruiser items have to be strong to make bruisers strong, but they are the most exploitable items out of any class. For example, an adc is fine giving up 10-15 ad per item in exchange for 200-300 hp, but a bruiser can't afford to give up that hp by building an adc item. Not a perfect fix but it would help if bruiser items were nerfed a little more heavily for ranged champs, i.e. maybe lowering sheen proc damage or trinity bonus ad or something. Literally just anything so that other classes will want to build bruiser items less and bruisers can have their items buffed without some new busted ezreal or talon build.

@hehexd5317

Жыл бұрын

no adc aside for shit like vayne and ez build bruiser items, and they only build one or 2, crit based adcs can't afford to build non-crit items, even building ga feels like shit, the meta adcs atm are just playing ap or on hit, barely any adcs were viable with trinity (draven, ez and zeri, but they reworked her to not work with sheen procs), ashe with trinity is a joke, she does 0 damage with it. the 200 hp on trinity is also a meme, you're squishy enough that the 200 hp is wholly irrelevant, adcs usually end up using assassin items when adc items are garbage

@samhpercussion

Жыл бұрын

​@@hehexd5317 Marksmen have a very long history of dipping into bruiser items for builds, just because not a lot of them do this patch doesn't mean they haven't for a long time. Plus, the 2 adc's that are still consistently using trinity this patch make up 40% of the adc pick rate (ezreal and ashe) and their trinity force builds have a 53% and FIFTY SIX PERCENT win rate. Ashe with trinity is so strong rn, there's a reason pros like gumayusi, envyy, and berserker are building it. There's a lot more here but I genuinely just don't know how to explain it...adc's have been building bruiser for a LONG time and you just gotta be blind or ignorant to not realize.

@Lyres-Liar-In-The-Lair

Жыл бұрын

​@@samhpercussionThe main issue, I imagine, is the factor of extra survivability that they get. Marksmen live and die by their damage, demanding a mountain of care, resources and attention to achieving the status of massive dps they are known for. That, which leads to the fact that a good chunk of bruiser items are cheaper and function better under ranged conditions as well giving more survivability while losing very little dps

As a top laner I wish they’d just remove jungle and support and turn the game into a 3v3

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

As a mid laner, same lmao

@MattHatter360

Жыл бұрын

As a support player, time to build Shurelya and roam mid

@SexyEarHair

Жыл бұрын

They should ban ranged from top as well. Like how melee cant buy runaans. If you get top, all the ranged champs are banned from your champ pool. Top is meant to be a slow slug fest of real men. Also who needs minions. They just delay the slug fest

@ssrubenmf7296

Жыл бұрын

As a fellow toplane enjoyer, just delete toplane from league of legends and implement a sidegame called 1 vs 1 with blindpicks, no ranged characters, only melee champions to the death in 1 lane

@kwestionablplus

Жыл бұрын

imagine a 3v3 mode haha.... oh 😢

Honestly the big problem of toplane , if we just forget about the items (they're trash) , is due to the balance between adc's and bruisers being so badly managed. A few seasons ago I remember being able to 2v1 the botlane without having an insane advantage , let's say we had the same amount of gold and i was obviously 2-3 levels above. Nowdays even if you're super fed it's impossibel to deal with adc's because they litteraly spike at every item.. AND outscale bruisers.. So we're left in a position where winning toplane is only 50% of your doing , the other 50% goes to the jungler that ganks first. And even if you manage to do so you still won't have a considerable impact in teamfights. I mained top for 10+ years , one tricking Riven , but this lane is just so boring now... Our items suck , winning our lane is 10x more effort for 10x less reward , the meta up there is shit , and you rarely get to do what a bruiser is meant to do because you get popped by a 2 item adc with a lulu that's unkillable. I just play support now , easier games , and more fun because I feel like i'm actually playing the game and not just a meaningless 1v1 minigame that doesn't lead to anything intersting up there.

@-B.L.E.S.S.E.D-

Жыл бұрын

Of course you can also just play tanks and you will have more impact , but a whole class being unbearable to play is just poor design and balancing from Riot. Man I could write a whole essay about why bruisers in toplane are just awful to play..

@MattHatter360

Жыл бұрын

I mained top for 4 seasons but eventually just reverted back to playing support because it's much more fun and you can actually have a significant impact

@-B.L.E.S.S.E.D-

Жыл бұрын

@@MattHatter360 Yep.. it's way more fun honestly

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, that's part of the reason why I stay away from top, and when I get autofilled, I just go with Shen and play for the team after level 6

@-B.L.E.S.S.E.D-

Жыл бұрын

@@minimoYT Leaving a whole lane in that state for that long is insane.. Sometimes I really think Riot just hates toplane for some reason..

We should just all delete league.

@walkelftexasranger

Жыл бұрын

Best answer

Bruisers are split to two groups, divers and juggernauts. Divers will always be problematic like this. They are designed to be jack of all trades masters of none, so ofc they either fuck everyone over or aren't as effective as someone else would have been. Juggernauts are more interesting though, because they can be classified further into the type that holds their ground (illaoi, mordekaiser, urgot, darius) and the type that runs into you like a diver (sett, garen, mundo) that has no precision and can't really pick their target. Main difference is one has an ms steroid or dash, while the other can't move and has to wait for you to engage on them. The "hold your ground" juggernauts I believe are in a good state as is, despite their insane 1vx potential, while the "run at you" types are generally always just weak. They can't do enough damage to kill tanks in a timely manner like the other type and they aren't fast enough to get to priority targets.

@daytonsaragosa6790

Жыл бұрын

Divers are usually noteworthy for their inability to attack more than one target, at least I can think of atm. Juggernauts usually have aoe because they are dealing with many targets at once. However that hybrid mix of the two they depend running into the team, they usually have a really good execute or way to turn he battle. Sett can snatch any juggernaut, tank, or diver and throw them right into the team then taking all that damage he can true damage W. Garen can silence and spin to win or absorb skillshots then execute. Mundo can rapidly restore HP, so if he's low and they push hard, he just amps up and runs the backline down while his tries to escape

I dont think Triforce was nerfed because of ADCs. It was built on a few yes (which the item had better counterparts to it outside of maybe ashe) but thats because shit was built on every ad champion in the game. Especially junglers, quite a few have had 54% winrate because of triforce. Divine was nerfed into the ground, triforce was overbuffed. The outcome is obvious. I would also like to mention that we had a bruiser meta since season 10. I refuse to believe the role is weak.

I watch a lot of Professional League and I don't really play top lane anymore, and so my take on this is a little bit different. I feel like there is a really nice class triangle between the squishy skirmishers, the bulky bruisers and the... tanks. Squishies don't really have the HP to teamfight and they are good side laners, they tend to beat bruisers very hard, and tanks can usually survive them, however, they can also be counter-played and they are the worst class if they don't get gold, these champs exist to create a side lane win condition and force the tanks to answer them in the side lane. Tanks are really bad side-laners, their sole purpose is to teamfight and so they "lose gracefully" when alone and try to pick timings to group where they sacrifice the least in the side lanes, tanks can semi-reliably withstand skirmishers, but they get dumpstered by bruisers. Bruisers are a pretty healthy middle ground between the two, they aren't able to "lose gracefully" to the skirmishers, but they can pretty reliably get ahead of the tanks, they don't have the high-highs of the skirmishers, or their low-lows but they are consistent. That's either a good or a bad thing depending on what type of player you are. Bruisers are NOT pure teamfighters, if they group with their team and just run at the other team, they should get kited, that is their class' designed weakness, HOWEVER, nothing is more dangerous than a bruiser on a flank. I have seen the WORST teams in the LPL and LCK coordinate flank angles where they have multiple champions flanking from multiple angles and the "primary" champion(s) might be a lone ADC looking as juicy as possible so the enemy team overextends and gets pounced on by 4 champs, the BEST LEC and LCS teams almost never have more than one champion separated from their team, which makes bruisers look awful... It's been a fact for 7-8 years now that the "easiest" way to play league of legends is to have a tank top, a tank or bruiser jungler, a control mage mid, a late game pure glass cannon adc and an enchanter support... Every player has a single clear and easy to understand job, win conditions are obvious and execution is formulaic. Every single team that opts out of playing the game this way is intentionally sacrificing these things for higher rewards and the extra bonus of a higher probability that your opponent hasn't played vs your strategy before. There are certainly one or two champions that are grossly out of line, but I don't think the whole class is a problem.

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

I think a lot of the problems with bruisers stem from how isolated the top lane is from the rest of the map in solo queue, and from how other lanes snowballing seem to have more impact on a match. I don't watch a lot of pro play, but I can imagine that if you coordinate a proper draft and winning strategy, bruisers have a place in how consistent they can be. In solo queue they aren't as explosive as the squishy melee skirmishers, but also not as reliable as a tank for teamfights, so they end up seeming like the worst of both worlds

"Whatever is happening down there" cracked me :DDD

I am otp ornn, and one thing that I learned: when im behind i wont tank anything, but if a bruiser is behind he can still kill me, or kill anyone, doesnt matter the item or lvl diff, as long he has black cleaver, bork or divine sunderer he will win. Obvious these itens were made to kill tanks, but sometimes I am 2 lvl ahead and still they can kill me with low effort, and meanwhile when im behind i cant tank anything

@walkelftexasranger

Жыл бұрын

Counter argument - If Tank is behind he still has CC to provide + he scales. If Bruiser is behind he's useless and doesn't scale.

@ph2736

Жыл бұрын

Agree tanks still have their CC, even tho there is too mutch mobility in the game, but they don't scale that mutch when behind, the kills and wave will go to carrys. And about bruisers don't scaling yeah it's true, but they still do a ton of damage when behind

@simpleman8801

Жыл бұрын

i agree on all you said but not on black cleaver. alone this item feels useless compared to old seasons. nowdays i need sometimes 3 pen items cleaver, eclipse and last whisper to deal vs a full armor volibear, k'sante or poppy etc. but yeah black cleaver is strong in combination with bork. but it's the only item which isn't strong alone compare to others. bork/divine for example.

@yourrick_

Жыл бұрын

@@simpleman8801 what are you talking about you bronzie cleaver is broken right now

@kraftyevan

Жыл бұрын

Personally as a frequent Sion enjoyer, I think the big issue by far for tanks is BoRK, im sure as an Ornn enthusiast you have seen the item passive alone do 2-3k damage by itself.

Bruisers are the same as Kalista and Zeri Nightmare to balance Bruisers can never reach their full potential aslong as they share items with other roles, because an ability based jungler like Kayn or Kha will be always stronger than an Aatrox with good bruiser items and have way more impact (like we saw with Gore) Now Trinity,which was in a good spot for Camille and others , got nerfed because Akshan, Ashe etc abused it. Reminds me of old Deaths dance which was bonkers on Graves, Ezreal That's just the top life for years now.

I think many things need to be changed. Starting off with items, bruiser items that lost some or all ability haste like maw of malmortius or goredrinker need to get it back. Then, runes. Some things I say may be debatable but what 100% ISN'T DEBATABLE is that legend tenacity nerf needs to get reverted, and have it's 30% tenacity back. Additionally, a lot of top lane champions should receive small buffs like base move speed and health regen, to he able to deal better with the cheese matchups, while the cheese top picks need to get stat nerfs, like base armor, and heavily increased mana costs. Another thing that needs to be fixed is camper meta. Both supports and junglers are right now in a state where they have no responsibility over their assigned position and can just play for kills all game, even since the very beginning. To fix this the change I propose is simple, it's to nerf minion soak exp and kill exp for junglers and supports, but increase it for objectives. This should hopefully end the degeneracy of 3v1 top and mid ganks in 5th min. Then, to make the lane less snowbally and one sided in bad matchups, top tower plate gold should be reduced, and rh first top tower should also be made tankier. However, the tier 2 and 3 top towers should be way squishier, and give more gold, to make top lane meaningful during the time most of the action is on bot lane. A buff to Doran's shield would also be beneficial, as well as reverting death's dance back to it having a hp ratio instead of ad. Also, buff triumph.

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

I think nerfing plate gold and a DShield buff would be good first steps. If DShield becomes too strong in mid, they could just buff the mana regen on Doran's Ring, cheese tops usually don't use it, but mid mages do, so at least they won't go OOM when poking DShield + Second Wind users

i feel the same happend with eclipse it was suppose to be an assasin item high risk high reward with the shield but everyone just started to use it cuz of the life steal and fre shield

Fastforward 6 months and Riot decided to kill Bruisers and buff every other class for whatever reason.

So here are my thoughts on the bruiser as smb who plays top since S5. 1st of all Goredrinker could be an ok item if you could actually cycle through it more than once in a teamfight (you cant) and if GW wouldnt absolutelly destroy that item (GW which usually is purchased against the goredrinker users anyways). 2nd I think Trinity Force is better than Sunderer objectively right now unless you play vs a double tank. It is simply too much of a stat gap between the items. 3rd Cheese picks are insanely overpowered. AP Varus top is incredibly opressive to play vs as most champions because he has a dumb strong early game from being Varus, being ranged and abusing PTA while one shotting you with 0 counterplay in a single R. Other cheese picks like Cassio and Akshan are again incredibly hard to lane against and the issue is they arent just lane bullies, they scale very well too. 4th Even though tower plating might seem like it rewards you for good laning, it actually causes just creates a huge cliff between a top laner supported by his team and one that is ditched, leading to the inevitable top gap. 5th Hullbreaker is an imense issue. The fact that this item is the only way you can reliably carry as top lane as well as having to deal with this as a top laner that is behind, there is simply no way to balance the game arround this kind of an item. It should be removed. 6th The proxy 1000 deaths still I beat you champs like Sion and Ramus and Singed where it doesnt matter how many times you kill them, they seem to stay even with you. 2 Of them are impossible to chase down and one of them is not punished by death because he can still collect gold on top while dead on top of his ability to already get free stats from just farming . 7th The teamfight where you get exhausted and one shotted unless you are miles ahead on the map. If you are an immobile top laner you legit cant play against Thresh, Janna, Karma, Alistar, Lulu Finally it is the counter pick where if you add all these Team help + Hullbreaker + the unsafety of the needing to be melee to CS, yea you get the experinece.

Drinking game : take a shot Everytime he say “Bruiser” in this video

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

For legal reasons this is a joke, and I will not be liable for any casualties

I hate to say it, but Rito needs to focus more on making bruisers more split-pushy. They tend to have just enough bulk and mobility to survive some ganks, which makes them unique compared to basically anything besides tanks. And unlike tanks, they also have the damage to push waves and hurt towers. They're a nightmare to balance for team fights... so stop forcing them to work in team fights. Instead make them the distraction role that forces enemies to waste time on you. If you're behind as a brusier, they should still be capable of staying under tower and not getting dove like adcs, mages, and assassins get. I'd like to see some items that have bonus effects when near minions and towers to help in those scenarios. An item that shifts between offense when

Ashe building trinity was expected, ashe doesn't benefit from the crit items as much as onhits and storm and static doesn't really help her. Trinity solves almost all her problems. It gives her hp, move speed and damage, it's her perfect item, especially with the buffs it got

As a bruiser main I don't have a big problem with polarized results. Top is extremely punishing from behind and rewarding from ahead. When I play a bruiser I sign the contract that I might become a major threat or end up getting stepped on. It's my job to step on my opponent first, and if I don't it usually feels like my fault.

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

That's fair, I just feel like jungle has a bit too much power over how top plays out, like one good gank and you're out

@nickyyoung849

Жыл бұрын

​@@minimoYT I feel like top is the role least impacted by jungle. I don't see junglers camp top often, and I don't usually feel like dying in one gank is going to take me out of the game. And of course intelligent laning minimizes the likelihood that ganks will succeed. That said, probably a bigger issue at higher ranks where top laners are much better at abusing leads through freezes and wave stacking, and junglers dive more.

I think that, since 3 or 4 years ago at least, it's really annoying playing at the top lane: because if you like to play melee champions, in 70% of the times you must have to face a ranged champion. It's just unfair. Also, the bruisers (and the whole fighter class) need an update on their items. Definetly, top is an isolated place in the rift, and it seems like its fans are done with it. 😢

@nuhardusnytitdigivafflan8511

Жыл бұрын

Most ranged tops suck or are extremly counterpickable, if its not a ranged champ it will just be another counterpick

@nahuelcanaves9464

Жыл бұрын

@@nuhardusnytitdigivafflan8511 That's true, but I'm taking about champions like Quinn, Varus (right now), etc. Personally, I prefer to face a melee counterpick than a character that doesn't allow me to do anything except using F + ignite + all of my habilities just to take down 1 guy. I mean, there's other 4 players to play against. Sorry for the long answer 😴

@nuhardusnytitdigivafflan8511

Жыл бұрын

@@nahuelcanaves9464 I kinda agree. Though i think its more of a toplane counterpick problem. If you firstpick these ranged toplaners you will also get destroyed and perma dove. FP is simply pain

0:05 Instructions unclear Ended up in a coma for a week

Your takes on itemization would save league get a job at riot pls my guy XD

It’s why I switched from sett to Yone top. Yone is one of the few toplaners that has consistent carry power after laning ends.

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

I'd love to learn Yone for when I ever need an AD mid laner, but laning with him feels like playing the game in hard mode. Get stat-checked in top, and constantly 50% HP while being camped in mid. Probably a skill issue, but by the time laning is over I'm 0/5 lol

@BloodDrenched-y6i

Жыл бұрын

@@minimoYTwith yone you stat check lvl 1-3 against every top laner thanks to lethal tempo. You lose to jax and potentially sett or Darius early but most of the time you play aggressively and then control the wave to have safe bounces, so you can farm up and not get froze or ganked. Post 6 it’s harder against some match ups but if you can farm 2 items you just murder folks.

I love the music in the background

olaf is a good example of why bruisers are problematc to balance he can take some champions kit and completely invaldate them,if you're a tank or a mage and he presses R you might as well leave your hands off the keyboard because there is literally nothing you can do to him but then mobile champions can kite him forever and he can be useless it's the whole "if i can get onto you i win" going on they have,it makes so they either win with 0 counterplay or do nothing it wouldn't completely fix it but making so bruisers do less damage but are way more tanky would help a ton,it makes so they have more time to try to close the gap but also that if they do you aren't instantly dead also fuck olaf

Petu said it once and I'll repeat it here, there are no fair fights on toplane anymore, its either wait for jungler to gank or take a onesided fight. There's barely any benefit to fighting your enemy as getting pressure will work against you 90% of the time. Riot fucked over every single bruiser item into being mediocre and expensive. This lane is a pain to play nowdays and for people like me, its time to quit the game because it was the only one that was ever fun.

The goredrinker change was giving the item omnivamp instead of extra dmg when low hp btw

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I was a bit fuzzy on the details, thank you for the correction

I feel like part of the problem is that A MAJORITY OF THE NEW CHAMPIONS being released have VERY OVERLOADED KITS in terms of adaptability. They have ranged damage, gap closers, scale well, high base stats, disengage, and cc ALL IN ONE CHAMPIONS KIT. Add mobility items on top of that and you completely destroy players' incentive to pick champions with a DEDICATED ROLE except as a specific counter pick

In an odd way, I actually think a restructuring of the map would benefit a lot of champions. So maybe "deleting" top lane isn't as dumb of an idea as it sounds

One thing i've learned from meta in these 5 years is, don't protect bruisers. They dominate the game for years consecutive (mostly thanks to Divine Sunderer). Now they truly kinda suck, but unfortunately for us, players, Riot don't seem to know what "balance" is.

@walkelftexasranger

Жыл бұрын

Bro it's not Bruiser who were problem, it was ALWAYS the fucking Divine Sunderer.

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

Divine Sunderer is a whole can of worms on its own. Bruisers who can't build it get shafted regularly, and when they don't, the Sunderer users get even stronger

@N12015

Жыл бұрын

@@minimoYT Basically, gut that, improve bruisers. That being said, I'm doubting it's as big of an issue people say it is, top lane is kind of a overly pride list and lets be real, they have been kinda overtuned for 5 years and are responsible for the heavy snowball the game suffers.

@korisnickoime571

Жыл бұрын

your "bruisers have been meta for 5 years" comment makes me think you are an adc main. its just hilarious how delusional you people are. adcs litterally getting butt fucked by mages at all stages of the game, violently beaten to the ground, "its your fault bruisers!", "how can you do this to us bruisers!" screams the adc main, as the mage continues to molest him for the 5th year in a row, same shit with mage players themselves, nemesis crying how "mages are the weakest role in the game" and "bruisers have no counterplay" and ON THE SAME PATCH, mages made up 23 out of top 30 midlaners by winrate and pickrate in masters +, "oh divine sunderer is broken" yea bruisers have 1 broken item mages have all of them because mr is still the worst stat in the game and only matters if you have it over 300 and they have NO voidstaff.

@lordhallibel3604

Жыл бұрын

@@N12015 no

toplane is basically a "win more" role the most important objectives (drakes) as well as the most volatile lane (botlane) are in the bottom part of the map, as far away from top as possible its literally impossible to snowball as hard as adcs can (because 4 player lane leads to many double kills if you snowball), you cant impact teamfights nearly as hard as they can and you cant impact early drakes or roam early because the enemy top is gonna get platings and minion advantage mid, support and jungle can all influence botlane and early drakes tho. As a mid or jungle id also much rather roam bot, theres always the chance of double kills as well as getting control over drake, while toplane youd just get illaoi ulted and the best you could get is 1 kill, maybe some platings with herald if youre fast. So what that leads to is the bottom half of the map deciding the outcome of the game before your tp is even unlocked oftentimes, and you winning or losing lane being irrelevant (unless you 100/0 the enemy top or get 100/0d) By the point where splitpushing toplane and putting pressure on the map matters after laning phase, many games are already mostly decided and one team either has multiple drakes or a 7/0 adc already. your splitpushing and sidelane pressure helps solidify a win once it gets to that point or if the game is evenish, but if the enemy already has multiple drakes and a fed adc your splitpushing wont matter in the majority of games Just rebalancing items or giving more xp to top minions yet again wont help, its not a stats issue its a macro issue. Top needs to have some way of impacting the earlygame and early midgame like literally all other roles do, or its gonna continue feeling like a coinflip lane. either let top somehow get to the bottom side of the map easier without sacrificing platings and 10 minion waves, or add a toplane objective or move drakes where herald is rn, so theres anything to gain from the maps topside. as it is now only the bottom side of the map matters in both snowballing/roaming and objectives

Maokai was almost always a toplaner and now he is back in the role he is not cheese

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

Maokai is fine, he's just a tank imo. The real problem isn't what's cheese or what's not, but just how much certain counters annihilate any chance of the opponent playing the game

If ADCs are abusing our items and Riot doesn't want that to happen, there is one very, very simple fix without drowning the entire toplane for the 23rd time. Have the Trinity force have different ratios, on mele and ranged champions, much like hyrdas behave. It's that easy to fix the problem here. But of course, that is if Riot actually cared for the toplane...

As a riven main, I want the old death dance back

Y'know, the "durability patch" riot made awhile back did the EXACT opposite of what it was intended. Everyone thought, Omg, Vayne and fiora are gonna be so op now! N o p e. Wowee, who would've known that by giving damage champions some tankiness, they can build MORE damage instead of going 1-2 defensive items??? The reworked items that introduced mythics did NOT help either, introducing/changing items that used to be either Damage OR utility, into Damage AND utility (gale force, deaths dance, shieldbow, etc.) I agree though that Toplane is the one that requires a fundamental change THE MOST. Its just not fun.

They have 160+ champions to express a variety of play styles. They created Kasante meant to be high skill expression tank/damage dealer while Naafiri is a lower skill easy to pick up single target burst assassin. They have so many moving parts they have in one sense lost the narrative while also created an ever changing game that is still relevant. I personally would prefer champs like jax or wukong to be deleted from the game but alas they fill a niche. To me Melee is not fun in a game where they are damage sponge that gets npc treatment. So they make them unkillable death dealers to make up for it. I don't have an answer but maybe item locking classes out of certain items might help. It would lower build diversity and some classes only get so many options to begin with.

I have no sympathy for brusiers, they 90% of the time the game isn't fun, it's top and jg bruisers abusing some new item or something. Gore when it was op, Divine when it was even more op, Frostfire/Sunfire when it was op, Dd and maw, Rav when it was op, Jaksho when it was op. Then their items got reworked because of how much bullshit sustain they had, so instead of drain tanking every (they still do) they just kill you instantly lol.

Id say its hard to make items for bruiser's without assasins abusing them like how they did with goredrinker (or how they are doing with BC rn) cuz they got no reason to go lethality at all, they have no lethality scalings, insted they have bonus AD scaling just like bruisers but its twice if not 3 times bigger them thos of the bruisers ad ratios, so in the end assasins are going to go for fighter items and when theu get nerfed they will just gone go back to their normal items. A fix for that could be reducing all AD assasins ad scalling to where its lower them thos of bruisers and giving them lethality scalling insted, them you could also rework their items to have more use to lethality and lower AD so bruisers and adc's don't abuse their items either

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

I honestly don't know why assassins don't have proper lethality scalings. Pyke has some interesting stuff going on. Imo if bruiser items leveraged base AD better, assassins wouldn't be able to poach them as much, since theit scalings are often only bonus AD

@Khezu_in_the_mountain

Жыл бұрын

@@minimoYT big problem is that lethality as a stat just sucks. serylda's removes more armor at second item than any second lethality item even on the lowest base armor champs with no armor items. You don't even get the full value of lethality till lvl 18 you get 62% plus like 2% per lvlor something. tbh it feels like both bruisers and adcs use lethality better than assassin's do atm, but this could just be a me thing idk.

The avenger comment made me chuckle :')

twisted treeline was a superior game mode anyways

Trinity force is just in a weird place, the item has been better than people give it credit for even before its recent buffs but only on a select few champions. Sadly I think they just managed to burn AD warwick jungle from becoming a popular pick again before it even began, he was also showing promise with a trinity force build in jungle, Warwick has really struggled to find a good AD item for jungle since sunderer isn't very strong in that role however trinity force gave that much needed move speed while also having some upfront burst. As much as I don't mind warwick top I'd like to see riot finally give him a better jungle item so he can do his main role as good as top xD

they deleted top lane, its called 2v2v2 mode

League's itemization is always so fuckin' wacko. A thing people seem to forget about "X season being Y meta" is that typically that season is rife with *champions outside the role using items not intended for them* and instead blame the class itself, when that class is almost certainly not within the top pick percentage Key examples include: "Tank metas" (where typically bruisers/fighters were actually the best users) "Bruiser metas" (Why the fuck is Talon building Goredrinker?) "Assassin metas" (Oh god even all the ADCs are building Duskblade now) Riot has never been good at CONSISTENTLY disincentivizing champs from a proposed class from building outside of it, because they're stuck in this in-between land where "they want to promote champion build diversity (except only sometimes)" but they also "design champions for singular roles on the outset (except only sometimes)" at the same time. It's been this way for years, and I'm honestly convinced that with the kinds of champs they want to keep releasing, there's never going to be a good, stable middle ground. They really need to pick a direction and stick with it or else we're just going to keep getting these issues where entire classes of champions all feel simultaneously bad because the items meant for them are better on someone else in a completely different class. In a game where the items you buy have more impact on the game than your actual champion choice, having whole classes of them just itemize in a nonintuitive way is SO feelsbad.

Bruisers are meant to be relatively tanky and deal some damage. The problem is they deal too much damage and not tanky enough. They are supposed to shine in extended fights, but if they're not giga fed, they just die in two seconds. And if they are, they just oneshot anything due to super high damage. Their kits are stupid - damage amplifications, tons of passive penetration and armor reduction, high amounts of true damage, executions, damage reductions, absolutely stupid skills that are designed only to activate Sunderer or Trinity and so on. In order for them to be balanced all of that needs to be completely whiped out. You need to kill a tank? You build Sunderer or Cleaver. You need to survive? You build resistances and hp. Items have all that you need. And if all of that stupid mechanics won't exist, there won't be a problem to build damage and not worrying about being obliterated by Fiora, who has a fucking Sheen with no stats at all. Or Camille. Or Garen ult. Or Urgot's passive. Or Jax mixed damage. Or Bork. And so on. And on the other hand, your opponents won't worry that a giga fed bruiser will just jump into them and obliterate everyone with the same stupid shit. League just needs a complete overhaul, otherwise bruisers will never be balanced.

Bruiser main try not to be delusional challenge(Impossible)

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

I main mages :(

bruiser's tools are used better on other classes, then they get nerfed, but the other classes are fine, they got others tools to work with, bruisers don't, so they just have the nerfed stuff

I’ve played trinity force on hit rengar for half a year now and pretty much every item I used to build has been nerfed because marksman’s abused them. Idk why they don’t just make ranged champs worse with on hit/ bruiser items.

I respect the video but I don’t necessarily respect the opinion, I think bruisers are good if anything too good, they replace tanks because they do a better job, you get 2-4 levels up on every other role, and trinity was never just specifically for bruisers, it was used by adc’s as well, just there became better options, as the same happened with bruisers and they went to Sunderer, no matter how many kills I have, how fed I am as an adc, the toplaner that’s 0-4 3 levels up on xp will run me down regardless of how well I play it.

@minimoYT

9 ай бұрын

I think a main point of contention is that a lot of the single-target bruisers are designed to fight 1v1, like Jax, Fiora, Irelia, Wukong, Vi, etc. So it's natural that you can't 1v1 them as an ADC or mage even if you're ahead. When it comes to real games, most teams should be peeling for the ranged carries, while a 0/4 bruiser will immediately get CC'd and die, or just won't do enough damage

As a main adc that have been destroyed from bruisers over the years I think it is the most busted type of champ and prove it because I change to top lane. The 4 women of top dominate the game in high elo from season 5 and even now. From the other hand I am a low elo player which I had play against diamond and some master players thank to tournaments and friends. The game is so different and the work to be an adc is easier the higher the elo because of peeling. Bruisers are not healthy because the top lane is not healthy, they spike incredible hard and must play around them both as teammates and rivals. Bruisers must have more sustain dps to not obliterate everything they touch mid - late game and the same time top must be an easier lane with, in my unpopular belief, easier gang potential. The only way an 3/0 adc loses lane is that gangs may happen every 20 secs and bot do not have so much burst or sustain to run back. So, more dps and not burst, easier team fight - gang potential to be on the game and not in the island, lower 1v5 potential. Is a team game and must all 5 play their roles, the logic behind 1v5 is so bad for the game and it is dominant for the last 7 years.

Maybe the game needs more objectives contestable by bruisers when they aren't just GIGA BROKEN running 1v5. It feels great to skirmish as a bruisers when there aren't 5 people killing you before you get to them. 2v2s are really fun and intense but with how the game is currently designed, your team and top lane bruiser get ONE chance at doing this. The team who wins it gets Herald and instantly ends the top lane contest. Nothing like that happens in mid and bot, you can fight 3-4 times before losing the skirmishes and giving dragon end up giving an overwhelming advantage. So it's not a "top lane satisfaction" patch we need. It's an entire map redesign with more options other than "splitpush or die in teamfight".

what song did you start using around 1:30? Great video also, makes me feel seen as a poor sett top...

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

It's the title theme for Maiden of the Lost Winds, this song: kzread.info/dash/bejne/f6ts2NWLe8W3ebg.html

Bruisers being meta for 2 years now and suddenly not meta anymore then it becomes a problem that must be addressed. Assassin Goredrinker and Goredrinker everything lasted 9 months of season 11 with Death dance Stride breaker dash meta lasting all of season 10. Now we are in an scaling ADC/Mage meta. Riot purposely makes classes weak or strong to shift the meta, its been like that since the start, and a 'balanced' game is boring because there will always be a meta or popular picks. I like how you try to paint a picture that bruisers are not being picked because they can't kill anyone when the whole team focuses them. Newsflash, that happens to any fed carry that dives into the backline past everyone else and gets punished for it. Also bruisers aka fighters are a huge class that includes divers and juggernauts, which are majority of the picks in top lane and the game in general right now, you won't have a game without them. Toplane being isolated is a two sided coin, yeah you have no map impact but you also have the highest 1v1 snowball since there is no reason for anyone to go over there to stop it, top lane has some of the most powerful and annoying champions in the game that can snowball out of control when they do rotate to objectives.

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

At the moment I don't think they're not meta. In fact, I hate facing bruisers nowadays, but the thing is, the experience of playing one just isn't great, and getting their items nerfed because other classes can poach it will always create friction

@mustangcody

Жыл бұрын

@@minimoYT I mean that isn't class problem but a game balance issue. It's been happening a lot since the item rework with classes from every role poaching items they're not supposed to be going. Riot can't keep items strong for certain classes that needs them without having another class abusing them. Season 10 Shieldbow is good example of a strong adc item that helps the class but too strong on champions like Irelia and the windbros. They need to add a class specific item system. Item variety is a myth and always has been, champions always goes the same optimal build and very few champions that can diversify are usually overtuned like Draven, Vladimir, Akali, etc.

@kraftyevan

Жыл бұрын

@@mustangcody I really would like a class specific item system where some classes can have counterplay items without say, Vayne picking an overturned tank item to help her survive other ADCs or Mages. Ive been a proponent of having a mix of class specific and class unspecific items for a cpl years now.

@korisnickoime571

Жыл бұрын

@@mustangcody so your argument for bruisers being overpowered is that assassins abused goredrinker too well? yikes, and no, bruisers havent been meta for 2 years now, theyve been somewhat playable for 2 years now, tanks still outperform bruisers and just because tanks arent fun to play doesnt mean "bruisers are overpowered"

@user-vs6oe8fl3m

Жыл бұрын

Bruisers are shit for so long what are you saying

I dont think this is a Bruiser problem at all The more diverse topics I think about, the more I think it's an overall game-wise balance issue due to how much damage the game has. Like why Bruisers often feel oppressive is not because they are tanky or they do damage, is because in the right conditions they are unkillable tue to absurd healing and death delaying mechanicsl like DD or Sterakks, and all of this because if they rely only on HP and Defenses they would die in an instant due to how much damage there are I think is a severely power creep issue that is affecting the game as a whole

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

Personally I don't have a problem with bruisers being hard to kill, my gripe is that they can kill squishies just as fast as assassins. If they had less damage, but better ways to survive in teamfights, they'd at least have a proper weakness when they're strong

Imo it's really the mythics. Tank mythics give everything a tank could ever want and more. Assassin mythics will give pen, a little bit of survivability and movement speed. Bruiser mythics give... hp. That's it. And your bruiser mythic will always fall off compared to tank or assassin mythics giving you no good reason to want to build them. (With the exception of Divine Tsundere of course). What should have happened a long time ago was they adjust tank items to give less stats in the early game but still not fall off as hard OR try to add a change that gives bruisers the little bit of extra damage needed to kill tanks. I'm all in for a carbon copy of Riftmaker approach, but I do think there could be better solutions that wouldn't be so boring.

@dreamergamer9291

Жыл бұрын

bruiser items feel so underwhelming compared to adc;mage and tank items

If the bruiser items are broken on assassins and ADC why not nerf them instead of the item? Holy S%#t this is the reason I stopped playing.

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

Good question. They want to avoid a Melee/Ranged split for trinity force for the time being, but even if it's not an elegant solution, there's already precedent for it on BotRK and Demonic Embrace

Agreed. They should just change the stats for the offenders.

Yeah, half of your argument went down the drain when you said Jax can't jump on the backline on a 5v5 teamfight. The issue with toplane is that when it's not being reigned by Divine sunderer and Tank mythics, its being reigned by counterpicking that oftentimes just makes a lot of playmaking potential rely on the jungler. This is extremely obvious based on ban rate.

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

Jax can dive backline, it's just most of the time I see him splitting instead, same with Camille

@Drkflood2

Жыл бұрын

@@minimoYT both have extreme tower breaking potential as well. so, to maximize pressure they also sidelane

sett became completly dogshit when stride got the dash removed

@minimoYT

11 ай бұрын

I remember he was still decent without it for a little bit, but he seems like he's only good for winning certain lanes and then falls off a cliff

A fed mage and assassin can definitely be just as oppressive as bruisers in the mid game, and a fed adc will end the game if it’s late game. Assassins have even more gap closing potential than most bruisers, and mages can one shot from range. Even if bruisers have tenacity, at least they’re in range to get hit by CC. Assassins just go invisible, and mages could be out of range entirely.

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

In the mid game, I don't think mages get that much pressure. They need Deathcap (3 items at least) to actually kill people on one rotation, and most of them have piss early games, which means that it's harder for them to build big leads by themselves like you see in top or bot lane

League player will always try to add things to complaim about. So yeah, i agree, top lane could be in a better spot, cheesy picks are problematic, it has a really low impact on the map and it takes a higher lvl of wave management. But, all lanes have their perks and con. If top was so unsatisfactory, why is it still the second most picked lane ? The fact that bruisers are either useless or destructive machines come along, its the goal/logic of the class. The role is atleast not as much mates dependant as adc, jgl or sup. in the past 2years, there was a lot of bruisers abusing bruisers items too.

I love Minimo

honestly? i think that some conditional changes have been done before and although crazy, could be a "fix" or light a way for an actual change. things like they do in aram where melee champs have a buffed mr, only aimed at cheese picks, maybe doran's shield when in a melee champ, with no supp item reduces dmg from ranged attacks, honestly, i dont know what to even suggests, i used to be a sion/poppy top only player, back in season 3, but was due to low impact that i switched to jg, eventually i realized that even though tanks are amazing in team comps, assasins are simply better at "forcing" wins, thats how i ended up a evelynn OTP, peaked diamond 2, whereas as a toplaner i barely got to gold

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

I think Doran's Shield could just have its nerf reverted, if it becomes a problem in mid lane, then they could buff Doran's Ring to compensate

Great content mate.

love your videos btw

Obviously I am biased in saying this, but as an (mainly ap) assassin player what made me despise so much bruisers is not the class itself, because it would be stupid. But death's dance was. Every game felt like a time race till the point where they could get that abomination of an item making them practically unkillable. Now it is nerfed, sure, but the fact that there's an item that delays 30% of the damage is beyond my comprehension. I agree on the fact that the bruiser mythics are very underwhelming excpet for the divine sunderer, or more that you just build the same mythic on a specific bruiser because the other just suck too much.

Yep, thats why I play ARAM. Top lane sucks.

I honestly think the game needs damage to be tuned down by a good 15 - 20 % tanks can barely tank past 25 mins; once enemies get more than 2 items. Especially if they rush botrk, black cleaver or armor pen. Bruisers who often times don’t build full tank items until later will get one shot. So the game definitely has an overloaded damage issue. It’s so weird to me that adc, jg, or top can all full combo someone to death in 5 seconds or less just like an assassin can. It’s like role or character don’t matter anymore. You build one or two items and you just delete people. It’s stupid league isn’t league anymore, I fell in love with all the different characters and what they offered, not a game revolving around mythics and items.

Just physically bar ranged champions from entering top lane before first turret and I’ll be 50% happier.

Trinity on adc is the consequence of bad crit item on adc,infinity edge is not even built anymore everyone go on hit or ap.adc situation currently is really bad all item combination are worse than pre13.1

cheesy picks : mentions normal champions

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

Normal jungle champions, who for some reason have huge win rates in top lane. There's a reason why Rengar's ban rate in Master+ is at 40%

Coming from Smite, hearing LoL players have the same exact complaints for their bruiser class as warrior mains do is pretty wild. In Smite, if Bruiser items are good, ADCs and Assassins will use them snd get them nerfed. To that point that this year the dumb ass devs actually just removed all bruiser items and the main bruiser class has had a historically terrible year. Mages are actually being played in solo (top) because they essentiall have the range, sustain, and defense that a bruiser should have and they build hybrid. But Smite's reluctance to have strong bruisers is from backliners getting favoritism and the general playerbase being trash so they dont like when a tanky bruiser dives and gets kills. They prefer it this way.

@quanwashington

6 ай бұрын

It's hilarious. Assassins abuse Bruiser items. Bruisers abuse Tank items. Tanks (Vanguards/Wardens) abuse nothing and get blamed for a "Tank Meta" because people think Juggernauts are Tanks

i cant feel bad for bruisers right now. we only just got finished dealing with them being the ONLY class in the game that mattered for 7 entire god damn years.

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

They were strong before, but there has to be a middle-ground between Goredrinker meta and what we have now

i think part of the issue with top lane satisfaction or whatever is that when riot does decide to touch toplane it's usually accompanied by some absolute blight against humanity like the recent aatrox buffs that made him 15% pick rate and 53% wr, but nothing that functionally makes it fun to play lmao

if you think ad brusers have it bad imagine maining morde and getting a forced lobotomy when the enemy dodges your E or are forced to fight a fiora. Jax, Ksante, Fiora are fucking abysmal to fight. They should be flat out reworked

@mog5397

Жыл бұрын

I'm morde otp, and this is kinda cap. All 3 of those matchups you can win, and ksante has to be one of the easiest ones aswell. And no, I am not saying that morde is OP, in fact he is pretty shit, but you can't really cry about matchups. The problem is that those 3 are pretty broken, so they will inevitably outscale you, but same thing happens with every other champ that faces against the op toplaners

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

Morde has the AP bruiser problem of having to get items either from mages or tanks, AP bruiser items are already scarce as it is, and he can't even build RoA properly because he can't make use of the mana

@Captain_Veinrick

Жыл бұрын

​@@mog5397 Im not saying ksante match up for morde is bad its a pretty easy one. But hes just abysmal to fight. alot of the Morde counters are "unconventional" like vayne, the le epic top lane champs or the creatures known as kled riven and trynd. Fiora is just a champ I dont think should exist. And Jax auto attacks you to death. The main problem is that none of top lane has been touched in months while adc's play a different game every patch. Combined with the terrible itemization for ap brusers so morde is just stuck in this limbo with nothing to really look forward to in lane anymore.

@mog5397

Жыл бұрын

@@Captain_Veinrick Yeah that's true

Riot has to ReDo Top, it was for a long long time my fav but it's useless or usefull now and never really enjoyable. I jungle now and mute everyone and its at least fun and I have a lot of impact. Why can't Top do this Riot?????

Another thing about top laners is that they, by nature, lose to bot laners. Unless even a Mundo is turbo fed and at an inhib, any ADC with a support/midlaner can easily shut him down if they decided to go clap them. Bruisers and tanks lose very hard to forms of hard CC/disengage, and I think this game has far too many forms of CC. A bruiser can't destroy a backline if a Leona or nautilus is there, because they literally just can't touch anybody except the CC bot tank that's in your face and does a... concerning amount of damage. The whole meta and ability-focused shift League has done over the past 6-7 years from what I've seen seems bad for toplaners. And this isn't even to go into item builds and mythics

@elia0162

Жыл бұрын

It makes sense there are 2 people in botlane vs 1 in top lane

They need an overhaul they have access to the best and widest item range 9 times out of 10 and the build flexibility works too well for items they legitimately shouldn’t be able to run an deal dmg. Bruisers are the problem that is ruining the state of balance in the game and kinda have been for the longest.

@minimoYT

11 ай бұрын

I think right now the issue is that bruiser mythics are pretty terrible due to the nerfs they got for poaching, and so they just go for full damage stuff like Duskblade and Serylda's, so they're just assassins, but harder to kill. Making them deal less damage and tank a little more would probably fix some issues with champs like Wukong, Aatrox, Kled, etc., since now they just go big dick damage and dive the backline repeadedly

the last time they updated bruisers we got the juggernaut update and do I need to remind anyone about how fucked that was? not saying bruisers don't need help, they're incredibly binary on or off as a champion class, the literal embodiment of stat checkers, they just need to have their overall identity taken in one direction or another not this weird middle ground like now, give them more damage and less survivability or vice versa. just god stop letting Jax 1 tap everyone or camille deal 1300 true damage and be tankier than a sky scraper

Bruisers are an extremely strong 1v1 class but it's so annoying when you face ranged. And assassins. And tanks. Idk as a tank player sunderer has been the bane of my existence because it conpletely invalidates the concept of tanks that are bad before 1 item and need to wait to scale and 1v1. I'd like bruisers to have different items that make the 1v1 more interactive for me but also help bruisers win against other classes and perform in teamfights. Idk I feel like bruisers are one of the most problematic classes to balance and I honestly understand Riot's problems. Because at the end of the day the only bruisers that have success at high level of play are stuff that can easily stick to the enemy carries. Like jax, irelia and camille. And I'm sick of these three.

@daytonsaragosa6790

Жыл бұрын

I think there should be an item that dashes but the range is based on HP. And it works more like Naafiris w on a long cool down, with a clear way to break that dive with either a tower, terrain, or another champ. And I mean, you need 4000 HP for it to be a good dash with all that because being a slow fighter sucks against kiting. Hell you could break this link with a damn ward, just something to fight against a fast mosquito

I'm having very great results with trinity force hullbreaker and then dead man's FoN because they all give movespeed which is the only thing Nasus needs and the movespeed is the only reason to buy triforce ever...

yes to both

Game is already 4v4 + 1v1 in top and not an actual 5v5 game for 15 minutes. And all 95% of toplane champs and players now add to the team is someone designated to push out a sidelane and/or stop the enemy champion designated to push out a sidelane. All this stategic drought just so toplane players can feel like literal Thanos in 1/10 games, if enemy team haven't already surrendered. The issue with top is too big of a focus on the emotional aspect of toplaners, which is what they truly care about. They don't actually want to have high agency and impact like supports and junglers, if they did, they would be much more open to play roaming supps or other champs, instead of playing meatblob vs big stick. To be fair I think some, maybe most games should have this classic top 1v1 dynamic. But not all. It's like playing chess and only playing vs the same solved e4 part of the gametree, instead of exploring new and unknown permutations of summoners rift.

Ok, the thing that toplaners want is impact, I personaly believe that riit shouldn't really give them more impact as that will either make laning even more one-sided or give space to 5v5 fight during laning phase which shouldn't really happen as it is called "laning phase" for a reason. Instead, they should simply take away the impact of other roles (mainly mid and support) by making roaming riskier. This would also be nice to adc players as 4 people crashing on you every 5 minutes while you are 2 levels below isn't really the most pleasant feeling. Another issue of toplane is the snowballing. Because of its primarily melee vs melee nature, usually only one laner gets to enjoy farm, the one that wins trades.. while the other one has to either farm under turret in which case he loses some farm or dont farm at all in case his enemy knows how to freeze wave. If you play scaling champion this is a really big problem. I used to play Irelia for quite some time and losing matchups are awfull, I cant farm properly in first 15-20 minutes. Then enemy laner destroys first turret and is free to join teamfights and aid his team while I am stuck farming for another 10-15 minutes in order to catch up to others and be useful. That is basically the reason why I started playing ranged champions at top, melee vs melee in unfavorable matchup feels like I am not even playing....

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

Roaming for mid-laners is already pretty bad right now. The problem is that support can gank top unpunished, and jungle will just catch up with camps, so they can gank a lot and not fall behind in farm. If a good jungler doesn't want to let you play, you won't play, simple as that As for the matchups, there's a reason why the only champs I play top are Shen and Azir lol

i would say its more like evry other role than bot,jungle is forgotten by riot especialy top

@walkelftexasranger

Жыл бұрын

Riot hates solo lanes, because ADCs felt like THEY have to be the main protagonist and not anybody else, so they cried so long until Riot made it happen.

@user-sz9vt4sd7y

Жыл бұрын

​@@walkelftexasranger Riot Phreak accident

Not again......

the sheen mythics right now feel so underwhelming it s insane. like divine sunderer is so bad right now unless you re facing a tank that stacks hp and trinity is getting nerfed right after it became useable "because adc omg" like toplane feels like the middle child in the family that everybody forgets exist

I am a yone/yasuo two trick top I don’t play mid and I can tell you, it feels so garbage playing top right now. You have tanks like malphite, Sion, K’Sante going full tank and still 2 shot you. Stat checker champs like renekton, Pantheon, and Mordekaider also make the lane challenging to win as a bruiser. If you get behind you have to up your game by ten fold to not feed or get back into the game. I literally play yasuo and even yone bot right now because it’s a lot more fun. Hopefully they either nerf tanks or give bruisers a way to actually fight tanks without feeling like we’re hitting cars with paper.

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

I never understood picking wind bros in top, don't you get stat-checked by most matchups? Just seems safer to play them in mid, or Yasuo in bot lane if you have a good support for it

@tumato5564

Жыл бұрын

@@minimoYT From my experience, not really. I can fight most matchups pretty well unless it's like mordekaiser. Yasuo is surprisingly strong in top but yone is weak unless you know how to play.

toplane doesnt snowball too hard lol, as long as they have a single mage there wont be much you can do, can we just revert the gutting of force of nature so we can have a single good mr item ?

@minimoYT

Жыл бұрын

Top snowballs on itself, the losing top laner will get his balls crushed if he dies once or twice, it's just that the winning top laner can't win the game by themselves, while a fed ADC or jungler could