Verdict 7 months later: class dead

Rumor is saying that some of the abilities are bugged and are not working properly with the stam changes, but idk it's just whispers I am hearing nothing concrete

The nerf was so heavy handed and out of touch it makes me worry about who they are listening to. Seems like the new strategy is to nerf classes into the ground by replacing mana usages, which is now obsolete, with stam costs. How can people justify such extreme stam costs when there's other classes that don't have to worry about stam at all.

@nylis4090

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah they certainly dont listen to kuno players. From what i heard kuno wasnt considered op in KR> Kuno players here said yeah we could use a nerf but nothing major since we are only dominating 1v1 and just strong or decent in other areas. IDK man its rough as a kuno main atm. I think awake is really the only spec now and even that isnt all that good

@Badkarma912

2 жыл бұрын

Lemme give you a BDO history lesson I'm not sure how long you played. They do this quite often they don't really listen to any people tbh. For example at one point people call it "old spin" yeah old spin was good but often times abilities come with drawbacks its animation was waaaaay longer, spin used to be like ninja blade spin darn near instant making it a combo ability, they nerfed the damage on it and kept the super long animation because they don't understand how the class combos. Coming from PA this is a heavy nerf to the class but look at old nerfs it's "not as bad" just look at current SHAI XD

I've been always playing awk kuno and ever since noticed that PA just hates the class These nerfs on succ and not to mention the lingering SA and SA after ghost steps they removed bf without giving any reason why. While the same time sorcs have front guard after their d dashs and now sages got SA after the d dash aswell

i felt like they cut my fucking legs off so yeah, ill play with my no dammage hoola hoop and int everywhere i go, also it was a tooltip change it was always stam cost

And 100% definitely feels down bad

now youre awakening hash without all the lingering SA for stam recovery

Could you tell me the name of that outfit?

i dont even play succ kuno but they literally shitted on it w these nerfs

It feels really bad and there are no practical instances to regain stamina or any protection for down time. Even our a block still costs Stam and that’s pretty useless as it is.

@nylis4090

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah thats the main problem. Any other class has skills that they can use to recover stamina in a fight. SA lingers or even s but we have so little of those and no lingers really.

Rip kuno :(

welcome to valk world

It’s been 2 months, have enough ppl complained to put the stamina reg back?

@nylis4090

Жыл бұрын

Nah i doubt its going to happen, but i can keep trying. They mentioned some PVE buffs for succ kuno a few weeks back but they straight up lied and we got nothing.

is there a way you can show me how to make my ui like yours?

@nylis4090

Жыл бұрын

My UI is pretty standard i just put my skills on the screen which is easy to do. Just go to edit UI and move them where you want them

See one thing in BDO that defines skill for me is that a player knows how to cycle resources. So for example, if you run out of stamina, you need to use your SA / FG abilities to regain stamina. However , using stationary SA opens you for grabs and slows, while FG opens you up for CC by backattacks. Another example is protected stamina costing movement, that can be substituted by unprotected WP based movement. In the second scenario you need to know when you can actually go unprotected to gain stamina back, so its a positioning question. If you see BDO combat as this cycle between resources, it makes total sense to lock the stamina regen in tendon cutter because its very hard to grab you out of tendon. So its only fair to lock the stamina in that skill, cause the weakness of SA is not applied to that skill as the skill is not stationary. However, Flashstep even though kinda tricky to grab because of the repositioning option, if you get the timing down correctly can be definitely countered by a grab as the skill itself is highly cinematic. Now let me shortly get into another topic in BDO: Female against Male Skillset. Female counterparts to male classes tend to have less movement compared to their male counter part, however always possess a block (Witch / Wizard, Musa / Maehwa, Kuno / Ninja, etc.). And as it seems PA seems to think that the block substitutes the missing movement spell aka double teleport, fiery angle or ninja step. But clearly if you look at the history of BDO, female counterparts are nearly always worse than male ones. Cause if the block is not SA like warrior, valks, novas or guaridans, you are a sitting duck that can be CCed even from the front with the right skill. Now if that principle already doesnt work for classes that i mentioned above, why would it all of a sudden work for Kuno, which cannot even regen stamina in block, but rather drains it? So what can be done? We need either like you said more lingers, which definately includes the removal of Stam reg of flash step, but in my eyes also the gain of another SA ability. More than half of kunos damaging abilites are unprotected (Fox Clow, Fatal Blow, Heart Aiming, Shackles, Black Moonlight, Wheel of wrath etc.). That was cool if you consider the movement potential kuno had before the nerf. Now as a sitting duck weaving in unprotected damage just kills the whole class, cause you have no chance to position yourself in a fight so you can actually make these skills work by positioning. I would definatly suggest to give black moonlight frontal guard, as we anyway only have ankle cutter as sole frontal. i think with flash on 12 sec regening stam and black moonlight frontal we would be good. Anyway, PA does whatever the fuck they wanna do and i dont think most of the stuff understands the combat, so they just nerf retarded stuff and always overdo it.

@nylis4090

2 жыл бұрын

There are skills in the game that are protected movement that recover stamina, so the idea that kuno cant have that based on that logic is just wrong. To the second part, Both musa and mae have blocks, only mae has a Q block in awakening though. Ninja and kuno have the same exact block, you just cant block with a shuriken equipped. To counter this point, the obvious answer is warrior, though some would argue he isnt the male counter part to valk or vice versa. Blocks DO help classes for sure, i disagree that blocks are useless unless they are SA as well. I think thats total bs honestly. A Q block that doesnt drain stam, or better yet, our S block being reverted to how it was pre rework would be huge but ultimately promotes a playstyle that nobody enjoys fighting or playing. Nerfing flashes CD makes grinding worse. That, and the lack of SA in general. I do think thats an option, adding another form of protection instead of reverting flash nerfs but personally i dont like that idea. Kuno already has enough SA damage and i like that assassin classes arent perma SA in terms of applying dmg. That being said, the meta is def perma SA all the time so its hard to argue against whats meta. Having played kuno more this is what they should do IMO. 1 revert flash nerfs entirely. 2 remove the second teleport on flash but keep dmg. 3 Lower stam cost on tendon down to 200. 4 Add a linger or two, i personally miss Danse linger, but clone or explosion would work fine as well. 5 revert s block changes OR fix Q block. 6 (and prolly most important) remove all the times kuno disappears during her skills so she is trackable with the exception of concealment and ghost step. Flash being one of kunos core skills means nerfing it hits the class hard. Same with tendon, and when you nerf them both together that hard, well thats why the class is nearly dead. The second teleport reduces chance for counterplay. In large scale the second TP doesnt move anywhere anyway cause it has collision so it wouldnt change much here. Tendon costing 300 stam while also halting regen is huge nerf, cut that back a bit. We need lingers, not just for stam but the meta in general is soooo SA heavy and even before the nerf we lack in SA. Its why we had to keep moving because that was the only option we had. S block forcing us into Q block is stupid i dont know why they did that. Last but not least, almost everyone hates kuno because they cant ever tell what shes doing. Its nearly impossible to see what a kuno is doing because the model disappears to the enemy all the time. If they made her more trackable it would be far less annoying to deal with cause they would atleast be able to tell why they got CC'ed. Tendon cutter for example doesnt need to make the character disappear. They should keep that only for s and even then.

@miragepk3288

2 жыл бұрын

@@nylis4090 i don't think you read what i said. I never said so many things u stated in your comment: First sentence directly "Kuno cant have that based on that logic". I just said, its ok to lock stamina on TENDON CUTTER based on the counterplay potential of the skill. Its not about protected movement its about the fact that u can hardly counter tendon cutter, due to being fast with a totally controllable repositioning option by camera turning and a CC on top of it. Only because another class has a protected movement skill that regs stamina doesnt mean that its hard to counter, or that the skill should be in the game like it is. I also never stated i don't think they should not revert the stamina cost nerf. "blocks are useless" Never in my text. i said you can be CCed, which is a counter and that if you look at the classes i stated, the substitution of a movement skill with a non SA block ends in a slightly worse class. The musa and maehwa mainhand block is not a real "block" its a single hit block that you have to hold and reapply after a hit and as they both have it i am obviously not referring to that. The difference in awakening is stated in my text as Q block compared to fiery angle. And really man: "Ninja and kuno have the same exact block, you just cant block with a shurikan"? Now thats a troll isnt it lol? "Kuno already has enough SA damage". Thats literally why i said give Kuno a frontal, cause thats what she is lacking. A FG is always more skilled than SA and rewards you for good positioning and goes well with the repositioning potential of an assassin (--> alert stance anybody?). The part were i said a lot of her damage abilities are unprotected , i just misstyped SA (which should have been "protected"), which you can see cause i suggested at the end to give black moonlight FG. And then you contradict yourself in your text so much with your SA talk. "Nerfing flashes CD and the lack of SA in general makes grinding worse" --> "Kuno already has enough SA damage and i like assassin classes arent perma SA in terms of applying damage". --> "...and even before the nerf we lack in SA". That basically then goes into your last argument where you say that the trackability is a problem. I think the reason why kuno was less trackable is because we were so unprotected (which btw. i also stated with the respective skills in my text). So i repeat myself: "Now as a sitting duck weaving in unprotected damage just kills the whole class, cause you have no chance to position yourself in a fight so you can actually make these skills work by positioning". This then ties into my last argument: Keep the repositioning option on flashstep. I dont think that the second port of flash reduces counter play. The skill is completely choreographed, if you know the timing u can grab. If that was a problem why can sorc teleport crows on demand. That shit is ungrabable cause she can literally control the time she repositions and the direction. You dont need tendon and flash for stamina reg (even tho it would be obviously nice). Bring back flash stam regen and give black moonlight frontal. Then you can see how the cooldowns turn out and if the stamina increase is justified. I am not here to argue against what you think, but your comment seemed pretty aggressive from the get go. Don't get me wrong, I am totally against the nerfs that happened to kuno - i just stated what makes sense and what doesn't in my eyes, which was a response to what you asked in the video.

I'm so po'd.. I picked up Kuno from lahn. She's the first class I actually took the time with to learn to play, trained for hours in BA getting whooped. And the trained on the dummies, learning all protective moves in succ so that i could pvp. It feels like it was all for nothing. My guy and I were in arena the yesterday and the Stam nerf is just damaging. I usually don't keep chase up when I can kill in 1 combo ofc. But yesterday while fighting I ran out of Stam couldnt figure out how else to regenerate other than using chase and running away. Since I could block forever or move. This nerf was unnecessary Because it seems slow. Now I just feel like a punching bag. Smh. Lahn all over again. Guess I'm going to Mystic. 😔😭

@nylis4090

2 жыл бұрын

Been a kuno for like 4 years, i know how much it sucks. But honestly i dont think the devs will do anything so i would suggest just moving on to something else.

@buttermilkpancakes916

2 жыл бұрын

@@nylis4090 yea. It's just a shame because the class is so nice and I just reached 62 on her. My mystic is 61 so I'm just gonna learn her class.

they literally killed kuno's identity with this nonsense. kuno was all about fast movement and burst damage. now we are kinda dead after moving, since there is not much we can do without stamina. but if you don't move as kuno, well you are fucked immediately... to make it worse, grinding really sucks now for the same reasons and our arguably best aoe got a crazy cd increase of 33%, while there are better classes for grinding for sure. they just killed us completely, because some people were crying and unable to play against kunos. at this point, i almost rather have my pre reboot kuno back. i think i'm done with this game, tbh... kuno was the only class i enjoyed playing enough to stay at the game this long. i really hope they revert this shit.

@nylis4090

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah i feel that its really hard on us. As bad as kuno has been in the past, i dont think its been this bad ever, in terms of how it feels to play at least. Ive started messing around on a ninja because it feels so bad to play.

@soramercury7074

2 жыл бұрын

@@nylis4090 exactly... it is not even only about balancing anymore, it just really feels bad now. and then again, you said it in the video, other classes were already able to catch us easily. we had our burst movement, but when everything was on cd, even classes which are clearly not all about speed, are able to keep up with us, when it comes to distances... i mean, the fact we already had to manage our skills like actual resscources and had decisions to make, really was enough of a downside. we can not tank much or trade as well as other classes (correct me if i'm wrong) and when we have used everything for positioning alone, well there was not much left for actually catching people and do combos. considering the fact, that other classes are kinda mobile for free without any stupid downside, while being tanky as fuck, having full sa rotations and decent damage... i really think we were just fine before the nerfs. kuno for sure was very good in 1vs1, but not broken good. and in the end, this is literally what ninja/assassin like classes are all about. if they don't like them, why are they even in the game? i never complained about kuno being bad in the past, but god damn, let me atleast play my class in a way, that it atleast feels good lol.

@nylis4090

2 жыл бұрын

@@soramercury7074 I didnt mean to say other classes could keep up with us easily, just that it was possible. Succ ninja, DK, Striker, Mystic, warrior to name a few. While most cant match our burst speed, they have no problem following along or even catching up after the burst. I disagree, i do think kuno was broken in 1v1, but no more so than Succ ninja for example, and seeing as how 1v1 or small scale is where we are supposed to be good it made sense.

@soramercury7074

2 жыл бұрын

@@nylis4090 well, i haven't played enough to have real opinions about the class balancing as a whole. and i don't see why kuno was considered broken in a way, that she really had to get nerfed, but of course, i could be wrong here. some people still complain about strikers, others just hate ninjas etc. people will alwas complain, way before they even try to learn matchups. for example, when i have fought a friend's nova, i sometimes have died to unseeable/unreactable nonsense in like a second. and i had trouble to avoid her shield and attack from behind (sometimes even with blockjump) to deal meaningful damage. and for fact, she had no big trouble hitting me with crazy shit, after i have used my burst movement. so we have a class with a giant shield, more or less permanent protection, crazy dmg, big aoes and the ability to sooner or later catch a kuno... this looked like complete bullshit to me and i really think it is a horribly designed class and i have no fun playing against it. but instead of complaining about it and crying for nerfs, i just tried to somehow deal with it and learn the matchup better. idk man, maybe some classes just lacked a few tools to deal with our stuff, maybe we indeed needed some kind of nerf, but this game is for sure full of nonsense anyways. and i'm really tired of people complaining all day, making stupid tierlists within a few days and just playing what seems strong right after a patch dropped.

@nylis4090

2 жыл бұрын

@@soramercury7074 100% people always complain rather than learn a matchup. Thats one of the reasons i love the Melee scene. People would say fox is broken but there are never going to be nerfs to a character so they learned to deal with it and learned the matchup. BDO players, rather than trying to learn a matchup, just call for nerfs. Or worse and often the case, assume they are better players and since they are better shouldnt be losing to this class so it must be broken. I do think kuno needed nerfs but only very minor ones to stamina so that she couldnt rotate 24/7 without issue. But being able to do 1 rotation is not what i had in mind, not even close.

is why i play sorc more now.

these nerfs really bad. im gonna reroll to ninja. ATM, my kuno can not trade damg, can not hiding or chasing some1. Kuno only 1 way to recover stamina is invi.

@nylis4090

2 жыл бұрын

I have a ninja tagged as well. Ive never considered re rolling to a new class in years even pre rework where kuno was only good in 1v1. Now we arent even good there anymore.

SMH...Any class in the top 3 of too many pvp tier list is doomed to be RIP. As a newer player that picked Kuno as my main female class. I feel my last month or so building up weapons, learning to PVP and leveling to 61+ have been wasted. Tried ninja but my hands were sore af after 1 1/2 hrs. Luckily I also leveled a Sorc and a DK to 56+ so I guess I will have to fall in line with the other dk and sorcs I see so many of every time I log on.

@nylis4090

2 жыл бұрын

Sad part is kuno was only top 3 in 1v1. An arguement could be made for 3v3 as well but given how she was just decent in siege/nw/gvg doesnt really make sense to gut her this hard. But lemme tell ya right now, the playerbase LOVES to complain about kuno. Any time she is strong she gets hella complaints and nerfed. This was prolly the longest time we had before we got nerfs.

Murio la kuno en sa ya estoy haciendo pve, es una mierda nerf a una clase debil que depende de su movibilidad y este nerf hace mierda a los jugadores en nivel medio, sad.

@nylis4090

2 жыл бұрын

Had to translate in google as i only speak english. But yeah basically they killed the class. overnerfed her hard af and anyone who doesnt know the class very well will burn through stam sooooo fast and even the vets understand that its only a matter of time before stam is gone

I agree. I did a video and made some glab discord/forum report but no one care. Grinding any oneshot spot outside gyfin is unpleasant.

@nylis4090

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah everyone that doesnt play kuno just says "yeah you deserve this" which is total bs imo.

if reezy the best kunoichi in the game only got 30 kills an a war theres a problem

Sofrosty is such hypocrite you can't take his words seriously we have sorcs for days and her nerfs got reverted and dk is untouchable and in top of that op range damage but no kuno op nerf it more they can grind and get medium trash nerf it they can put up vs ninjas nerf it and sofrosty still think it's op blow my mind

@nylis4090

2 жыл бұрын

I dont think hes a hypocrite in this situation, maybe i misrepresented him wrong. He just wants to fix our s block and see where things stand after that first.

@presentingjuri6706

2 жыл бұрын

I don't think frosty was being a hypocrite, he's been asking for the stam nerfs for a while. I think the problem is he got exactly what he asked for. Which is unfortunate because apparently only a couple classes deserve to not have any stamina and not all of them. I think some people just get off on the fact that no one plays your class. Some kunos would rather have their class be shit so no one else plays it rather than to play a good class. This makes them look better if they perform well.

@silverziko8495

2 жыл бұрын

@@presentingjuri6706 yeah I agree with you he got what he asked for and more and now his crying about it we all know that his not the best kuno but man wanting to nerf your class so you can be the only one play it to look good is such a dick move

@silverziko8495

2 жыл бұрын

@@nylis4090 he got what he asked for I still remember him telling the devs to nerf it more when we got the nerfs in global labs because the stamina nerfs wasn't enough for him in g lab

@nylis4090

2 жыл бұрын

@@silverziko8495 I would need a clip to believe that because i recall it being very different

I understand why they nerfed kuno cause it was to strong but the nerf was hard they should have cut it by half of the stam not that much