Jim Chanos on Cryptocurrency, Coinbase, and Contagion - Episode 75
In this episode Bennett Tomlin and Cas Piancey are joined by legendary shortseller Jim Chanos to discuss his legendary shorts, his thesis on Coinbase, and why this is the golden age of fraud.
Read more: cryptocriticscorner.com/2022/...
Other episodes mentioned in this episode:
Episode 15 - Revisiting Enron with David Z. Morris • Revisiting Enron with ...
Episode 5 - Two Pie Charts and a $60 Billion Stablecoin • Two Pie Charts and a $...
Episode 38 - The World is a Ponzi Scheme, You Just Live in It • The World is a Ponzi S...
Episode 42 - Elizabeth Holmes, Theranos, and the future of VC (Feat. Elizabeth Lopatto) • Elizabeth Holmes, Ther...
Episode 25 - Remembering Fraud: WorldCom • Remembering Fraud: Wor...
Episode 60 - The Foul Financials of Cryptocurrency (Feat. Francine McKenna) • The Foul Financials of...
Episode 71 - Terra, Luna, and Algorithmic Stablecoins • Terra, Luna, and Algor...
Episode 72 - We Never Want to Discuss Terra and Luna Again…and yet • Luna and Terra are Cra...
Other resources mentioned in this episode:
Cas' article on Michael Saylor / microstrategy-before-b...
Other places to find Crypto Critics' Corner
Website: cryptocriticscorner.com/
Twitter: / cryptocriticpod
Instagram: / cryptocriticpod
TikTok: vm.tiktok.com/TTPdPN2hK9/
Discord: / discord
Bennett's Twitter: / bennetttomlin
Cas' Twitter: / caspiancey
Bennett's Newsletter: TheFUDLetter.com/
Cas' Blog: / thecaspiancey
Bennett's Blog: bennettftomlin.com/
Asher's Twitter: / ashtag23
Timestamps:
00:00 Welcome Jim Chanos
1:10 Baldwin-United
3:15 A defense of shorting
5:57 Why did Jim start shorting?
6:55 Enron
11:30 Tether
13:15 Coinbase
18:33 MicroStrategy & Michael Saylor
21:05 Golden Age of Fraud
29:02 China and Luckin Coffee and Alibaba
35:30 Financial Education
38:00 Predation in crypto
40:05 Risks of shorting in crypto
42:10 Birth of fiat
This episode was produced by Griffin Davis.
#cryptocurrency #crypto #podcasts #listenable #coinbase #bitcoin #finance #shortselling #jimchanos
Пікірлер: 151
These guys are critically underappreciated. Being a crypto critic is a thankless role, almost.. thanks guys!
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@regularbob
2 жыл бұрын
It’s thankless because it’s stupid to be a critic of bitcoin. Unlike dollars which are created out of thin air, bitcoin is created by using energy and miners. Bitcoin is the only honest money we have because it is not apart of the debt based system. The problem is with the money which is why we have inflation. You cannot fix the problems in society until you fix the money. So to be against bitcoin is foolish imo💯🔥All of the regulation is setting up for bitcoin to be integrated into the new financial system🏦
@JohnSmith-pn1vv
2 жыл бұрын
@@regularbob very interesting timing this comment. Credit for consistency in tough times friend. Speaking of thin air, the yields earned from staking are created out of thin air. Bitcoin is endlessly rehypothecated.
@regularbob
2 жыл бұрын
@@JohnSmith-pn1vv omg. I’m not talking about staking bitcoin…I am talking about bitcoin. There is literally no other option that I can see currently to fix the money problem…inflation will persist until we change the money. Period. End of story. You are talking about staking/lending. I am not talking about that. We need a digital hard money standard to fix the bullshit. What else can be done to fix inflation? You seem like a genius. Tell everybody your smart solution to rising food prices, home prices, insurance prices, taxes, credit card interest, etc…do you want me to go on? Or are you finally realizing how stupid your comment was?🤭
@JohnSmith-pn1vv
2 жыл бұрын
@@regularbob I'm embarrassed for you. You really can't think of another way other than a digital currency, backed by nothing, that requires more electricity than Argentina? If this is the case you need to sit down and listen while smarter people talk economics. One obvious alternative to the current system would be a gold backed currency, like we had before America foisted unbacked monopoly money on us. Your idea to replace unbacked paper money with unbacked digital money is not a great difference sorry, you just digitalized fiat didn't you? Be honest with yourself now, if all cryptos were stablecoins you wouldn't give a 💩 about them. You treat them as a gambling vehicle like every other cryptobro. Currency is not supposed to make you rich, it is a medium of exchange.
Awesome episode, definitely a must-watch. Good work guys!
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Molly!
Amazing to see experince transmitted between generations Jim had a lot of experience in this area of fraud and boom-busts on the financial markets
My mind is blown how Jim foresaw the fall of SBF and the public’s outrage about it
Great guest! “Crypto = Predatory Junkyard” How spot on. Learned tons and no longer feeling crypto envy 👏
This is quickly becoming my favorite podcast. So insightful.. I look forward to these every week :[
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
Just found you guys through the algorithm this was an awesome and enlightening discussion. I'll be sticking around and listening to more.
@CryptoCriticPod
Жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
I am neck deep in crypto and actively avoid having to use Tether. It's an easy low hanging fruit to pick and throw at the crypto space. As Jim says, for people who are "depending on Tether... and the crypto space", most studied and responsible members of the crypto community do not "depend on Tether". This is a great interview and glad I found you guys! Always important to pay attention to the other side of the street and ask ourselves "what if I'm wrong?"
Chanos is my favourite investor. I follow his long short strategy. Sometimes successfully...
At 26:00 Jim Chanos says the SBF interview where he admits crypto is a ponzi will be looked back on as a watershed event. This is an absolutely brilliant call. This whole podcast in retrospect seems like you guys were broadcasting from a time machine. Wow.
love what you're doing here guys!
@CryptoCriticPod
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
Damn this is such a great episode, Chanos is just so good at explaining stuff without rambling, love it
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
He is great!
This channel is so underappreciated. I have first saw your LUNA-TERRA videos but man this is amazing as well. What a great guest and that has to be said: what great hosts! Well done.
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
Wow, you managed to get Chanos. Amazing.
Couldn’t ask for a better episode, was so stoked when I saw this in my sub box.
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you! We were incredibly excited to get the opportunity to talk to Jim!
One of my favourite guests so far. Great ep!
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
This is such a great episode. What a great character Jim is and great seeing the parallels of his short successes with the crypto bubble. All of you highlighting SBF's interview is a great highlight for the podcast
Amazing interview! Thanks for having Jim on :)
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
We were very excited to have him on!
I was unaware Saylor had a run-in with the SEC in 2000. Wow...
@ashtagbeats
2 жыл бұрын
Legend has it he disappeared more money in one day than anyone else in American history (or something along those lines).
How did I just learn about this??? This awesome!!
I've only listened on apple podcasts, never knew there was a youtube channel! You guys might want to mention it in the show ;)
"Decentralized financial nirvana" nah "predatory junkyard" 🤣😁
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
He has a way with words!
Great stuff as always :) fraud is everywhere :)
Amazing episode! Better and more insightful than even CNBC, Bloomberg, etc. I'm surprised none of the channels have come requesting to talk to you guys yet.
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
Thanks so much for your work! Totally agree about financial education - I'm taking an elective about monetary and fiscal policy and it's the first time I have ever learnt things about ecos/finance. Would've been great if I had sought it out + had been encouraged to study it, but after learning so much over the past 3 months I think a basic level of financial literacy and understanding should be compulsory at school!
This video aged well. Great content guys.
@CryptoCriticPod
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
Huge guest, great interview
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
We were so excited that Jim was able to join us and share his insights!
Absolutely wonderful! Even as someone who has mostly ever interacted with crypto as a hater on the sidelines, I appreciate so much the level of depth that this podcast brings not only to investigating the various frauds in crypto, but the larger phenomenon of cryptocurrency itself. And, of course, all of the secondary financial subjects that the hosts comment on according to their expertise is lovely, too. Thanks so much for continuing to put out some lovely, lovely stuff!
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your kind words!
Really made me think, and recognize my own greed. Currently de-risking!!!
Great work as usual guys! It's fairly rare to see critical, well informed discussions about crypto and its landscape. And i mean critical in the sense that you are looking at something objectively and start peeling back the layers.
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
Thank You for creating this channel, I found you guys searching for what was happening with Luna. Shoutout to CoffeeZilla
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
I’m glad you’re enjoying it!
Some parts of this have aged so well. :)
@CryptoCriticPod
Жыл бұрын
Yes they have
Great show. Keep at it, you are definitely finding your lane and there are very few in it.
Gem of a channel
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@RanduxSA
2 жыл бұрын
@@CryptoCriticPod I'm curious. Are you guys invested in the crypto market?
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
We are not currently, but we have both owned some in the past, we discuss some of that in Episode 21!
@RanduxSA
2 жыл бұрын
@@CryptoCriticPodI'm curious what your reasons are for pulling out the market. Will watch that episode later to find out. Keep up the good work.
amazing you managed to get Chanos, and great interviw
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
Chanos!? How the heck... That was a great show. I keep spreading the word on your podcast, you definitely should have more viewers based on the caliber of conversations you guys are having. While I came for insight on the innards of crypto, it is a rather niche subject. However, subjects like falls from grace and exposing fraud for all to see are ultimately human stories that people are curious about and want to understand. Keep it up guys, I learn something new every time I watch.
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
We’re not entirely sure how it happened either! We asked and he was generous enough to share his time and wisdom!
@Caddrel
2 жыл бұрын
Agree, I don't know how they don't have more viewers!
@geonwilliams
2 жыл бұрын
@@Caddrel They will once the whole thing falls over in a big way and everybody claims they saw it coming from a mile away. Well these guys actually did and have the podcast to prove it. We may be in the middle of it now and viewership is def going up after the impeccable timing on the Luna fiasco.
Priceless information, thank you very much!
Ironically I found this on tick tok 😂
Loved this episode, keep the great interviews coming!
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
Fantastic cast, thanks for putting it together!
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
Great work guys!!! Another one for the ages
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
Great questions and amazing guest, I hope u guys go to the moon!
you guys are my fav -thank you for this one!
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
This was pure gold! Thanks!
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
Great show
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
really impressed with this interview, good job
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
wonderful guest. Well done fellas.
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you! We were so happy to get the opportunity to learn from Jim!
Such a great guest!
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Jim is incredible!
Great episode, very informative. Though I will take issue with: "it's just human nature" to have these schemes and frauds succeed. The whole system is set up for them to crop up over and over. Not a bug, it's a feature.
Excellent as always, friend. Mega quick updates. View Bot = View God
great episode
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
Golden Age of Fraud
As always great show. You guys deserve at least 300K subs. But, most crypto dumb folks prefer all those 100K btc m00nboi and paid exit scam shilling channels. What a shame!
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed the episode!
Fantastic episode. Have you guys done one on online communities because I think those can pose big dangers in warping people's perspectives for both crypto and stocks. Terra Luna's "Lunatics" is a great example but any community of pumpers can make people feel like they are part of something larger while obscuring the fact that all of this is really about making wise individual monetary decisions.
Really enjoyed this interview.
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
What was the interview you mentioned around 28:00 ?
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
This one! www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-25/odd-lots-full-transcript-sam-bankman-fried-and-matt-levine-on-crypto
@cadekachelmeier7251
2 жыл бұрын
@@CryptoCriticPod Thanks! That link had a paywall, but I was able to find the source video from the title. kzread.info/dash/bejne/fY6N065waaqqiLg.html I had heard parts of the interview online, but not the whole thing. Crazy that he's just called out for describing a Ponzi scheme and barely even pushes back.
Love Jim Chanos. Thank you for the interview. Question: is the entire web3 blockchain idea a farce. Forget cryptocurrency as investment, what about the goal of decentralized services and software applications? Unneeded?
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Decentralization is at the heart of the historical web
@iGuide_net
2 жыл бұрын
@@CryptoCriticPod i fundamentally disagree. The historical web is now mostly an asset of a few huge technocracies and privacy and personal preferences are traded like CDOs.
Good work guys!
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
26:10 can someone please point me to the interview they are talking about?
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Here you go: www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-25/odd-lots-full-transcript-sam-bankman-fried-and-matt-levine-on-crypto
26:15 unbelievably prescient
@CryptoCriticPod
Жыл бұрын
Jim nailed it
Mention was made of a Bloomberg interview or article about Sam Bankman-Fried. Jim Chanos mentioned the article as something that he points people toward when they ask him to explain crypto. It seems that SBF has been interviewed multiple times by Bloomberg. Does anyone know which interview they are talking about?
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-25/odd-lots-full-transcript-sam-bankman-fried-and-matt-levine-on-crypto
I am wondering why chanos uses tangible book value to value a crypto company. Which assets like crypto are intangible. So the case he has for coinbase short is maybe not correct or what am i missing here?
Hey guys, what Bloomberg interview is he referring to?
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-25/odd-lots-full-transcript-sam-bankman-fried-and-matt-levine-on-crypto
@SusanneAuer
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Danke & Merci! ♥
so who shorted Tether?
what Bloomberg interview he is referring to?
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-25/odd-lots-full-transcript-sam-bankman-fried-and-matt-levine-on-crypto
@ehudklein
2 жыл бұрын
@@CryptoCriticPod thanks!!
So I know you probably hate to see this sentence, but will you talk any more on tera lina 2.0?
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
We have no plans to currently!
@lamronjr8785
2 жыл бұрын
@@CryptoCriticPod Totally fair! I was more curious than anything since it's an interesting thing to watch, but certainly for you a well that's drying and probably far less interesting.
...
@4:30 There's a big distinction between selling future inventory (airline tickets, future crop harvests etc.) and short-selling by borrowing shares from custodians who are lending their customers' shares. Our stockbrokers should have a fiduciary obligation to not loan our shares, as that drives the price down and hurts our long positions. Self-custody of shares would finally stop this abuse.
Jimmy likes 'em young!
No need to short crypto, they just go bankrupt by themselves.
Glad you do what you do, but this felt really echo chambery. Why not try to facilitate debates between people like this and people like Robert Breedlove or Jeff Booth. I'd like to see this guy explain how fiat is less of a ponzi than BTC when he's faced with minds like theirs. “He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion... Nor is it enough that he should hear the opinions of adversaries from his own teachers, presented as they state them, and accompanied by what they offer as refutations. He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them...he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.” - John Stuart Mill
@siddhartha_1
2 жыл бұрын
@Asher Hirsch pretty sure he would have brought up the history of fiat when this guy talked about it working with a strong state. Lol indeed. Anyone can make an echo chamber. Yawn.
great episode!
@CryptoCriticPod
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!