The Visionary (Jefferson) vs. The Pragmatist (Hamilton)

How refreshing it is to listen to an intelligent debate of ideas. No name calling for made up facts.

@shaneturner500

5 жыл бұрын

I have some bad news for you. The election of 1800 was not this cordial. President John Adams, incumbent Federalist maverick president, was called a "hideous hermaphroditical character with neither the firmness of a man nor the kindness or sensibility of a woman" by Jefferson in a democratic-republican paper. I believe that Adams responded by telling a federalist paper that Jefferson had died or was a french traitor. Adams won only Massachusetts, and didnt forgive Jefferson until Abagail Adams died. The election was tied between Jefferson and Aaron Burr, it went to the house for election to break the tie, and Hamilton wrote to the house "Jefferson has genuine love for this country. Burr loves only himself." Jefferson won.

@searchjesus2123

4 жыл бұрын

@@shaneturner500 you gave me an answer to a question. Thxs

@terranman4702

Жыл бұрын

Nobody calling nobody a fascists, a commie cuck or whateva!

@KiraLow13

Жыл бұрын

Jokes on you, Hamilton once threatened to physically fight the entirety of the Democratic-Republican party and Jefferson regularly payed people to talk trash about Hamilton in the newspaper

@jackrimbaud3826

10 ай бұрын

That, sir or madam, is rather well said

I met the one playing Jefferson at Monticello, and he was outstanding

They're facial expressions are actually killing me😂😂 i love this more than i should

Jefferson should be standard study by all citizens.

@readsomebooks666

6 жыл бұрын

As should Hamilton.

@barrontrump3943

4 жыл бұрын

readsomebooks666 true we need to tknow what not to do also

@keitht24

4 жыл бұрын

Make sure to include the part where Jefferson kept a sex slave her entire life.

@stephenridolfi6464

4 жыл бұрын

As should Madison, Hamilton, Washington, and the rest of the founding fathers.

@porsche911sbs

4 жыл бұрын

@@keitht24 Jefferson actually died some 8 years or so before Sally Hemings.

These actors' resemblance to the characters is uncanny!

@TheConsultantProfessor

3 ай бұрын

Hammy is a litttttllleee too old, but does resemble what I image he'd look like if he made it to his 55th or so year (depending on if you circa Hammy at 1755 or 1757). Jefferson, however, is on the money.

Jefferson takes the words right out of my mouth.

@biosonic100

6 жыл бұрын

Walter King Please. Hamilton was a tyrant who would have had us become a conquering empire. Ironically, that’s what we are anyway. In his politics, I will always side with Jefferson. I’ll never agree with his view on slavery, but at least he abolished the international slave trade in his presidency. He cut off the tap and helped to set the stage to end slavery in the United States. What did Hamilton do? Take part in a duel, like the warmongering dumbass he was.

@SheevPalpatine66420

5 жыл бұрын

@@biosonic100 how did we not become a conquering empire. Have have never gone ten years without war and conquest whether it be manifest destiny or our impoverished 'territories'

@thatsalittlebassist

3 жыл бұрын

@Walter King You sir need to read about both men before making assumptions.

@bunnybird9342

3 жыл бұрын

@Walter King Master of the Mountain is false

@josephgilorma6979

2 жыл бұрын

@@biosonic100 Hamilton created our economic system. Jefferson admired the French Revolution which got rid of a king, but wound up with an emperor.

I wonder how close Jefferson and Hamilton act like in real life as they are in this sketch. For example, I know Hamilton is about 14 years younger than Jefferson. Hamilton is portrayed as the more vigorous one.

@porsche911sbs

4 жыл бұрын

I think that's pretty accurate, Hamilton was upfront and had a proclivity for going to far at times; he much benefitted from having a mentor like Washington temper his radicalism. Jefferson meanwhile was a model "Southern gentleman", acting as polite as he possible could help it (though behind the scenes as shrewd and calculated as any Machiavellian politician could be).

Wow! At 11:58 he blatantly describes what has eventually happened. People leaving their farms to go work for someone else in the city... and then, eventually becoming dependent on government.

@attiepollard7847

3 жыл бұрын

What is wrong with people leaving the farms to go to major cities where there is a better opportunity of Life there. They don't have to become dependent on the government

@FlameG102

2 жыл бұрын

@@attiepollard7847 they do however become more dependant on goods produced by others. In a city you might not have any room to grow vegetables or herbs or have any livestock. So you need to purchase it. Which requires businesses to specialize and mass produce. Which further removes the humanity from consumption. Look at how we mass produce dairy and meat. In factories. By large scale faceless agricultural corporations. That was largely Jefferson's point. He hated cities in general and much preferred agricultural rural settings. Someone in an agricultural setting is much more in control and has much more control over his life and sustenance. If you have open land you can plant for your sustenance. Or raise some livestock. And what you dont have, you can buy or trade for with another farmer down the road. If need be you would need as little money as possible to survive, because your land can produce for you. Remember, this is the late 1700s. You don't have uncle Sam telling you how to build a house or what you can put there. You could build your own house yourself. And your tools largely. And then use them to care for your sustenance. Vs being in a city, where you are beholden to money because you need money to buy your sustenance, and so in turn you are beholden to the "stockjobber" and the central authority etc

@attiepollard7847

2 жыл бұрын

@@FlameG102 because we demand it more that's why we mass production. That's just evolution right there we can't always do the farming that we used to do like in the 1800s to the late 1900s.

@FlameG102

2 жыл бұрын

@@attiepollard7847 oh I'm not saying otherwise. i get how things turned out, just explaining the mentality, a lot of which can still apply today, in principle if not 100% in practice. Everyone should, to the best of their ability, try to be less dependent on external factors for their survival, as we saw with the pandemic and how key items quickly disappeared from shelves. Things like yeast. or bread. (to say nothing of flour, or toiletpaper) I haven't bought a loaf of bread practically since the pandemic started. because I make my own now. Hell, i know a friend who even planted his own wheat in his back yard. granted that same modern life and evolution doesnt always allow one to do these things. That friend works from home since the pandemic started. So he can. But it's the principle of the thing that i think still counts

@Hydroxica

2 жыл бұрын

It's a good thing farmers don't have things like subsidiaries. Could you imagine if they had to depend on government?

Who is this actor who plays Hamilton? I've seen him in several other of these debates, he's so good at the personification of AH.

@washcovaafricanamericanpro6495

4 жыл бұрын

Ian Rose.

Within a modern context they are both right, and wrong, at Every. Single. Turn. I love this.

@attiepollard7847

Жыл бұрын

Actually Jefferson is Right 100% of the time. The federal government Powers need to be devolved back to the states

THOMAS JEFFERSON THE 2 DOLLAR BILL GUY

centralization vs individuality debate is as old as time itself

Prodigious feats of memory by these two actors

I find myself in agreement with Mr Jefferson. His idea of country of nothing but simple farmers has great appeal. The land is the thing that ties a family together generations of blood, sweat, tears, and prayers poured into the soil over generations, is a powerful thing. I think that's part of what is sorely missing in our society today, a thing that ties the generations together, from father to son to grandson, and on down the line.

@nicolamcostello

3 жыл бұрын

There is something pure about agrarian life.

@sheaamalloy

3 жыл бұрын

we know who’s really doing the planting

@FlameG102

2 жыл бұрын

@@sheaamalloy not everyone in the colonies had slaves you know. The wealthy, had slaves. Not everyone was wealthy. Owning a slave was the equivalent of buying fancy new farm machines that automate all your tasks. Aka not cheap, and not so common among lower and middling farmers and townsfolk. Farming is not an institution that only existed with slavery

@juliegoldman411

2 жыл бұрын

If it was up to Jefferson, we all would be " gentleman farmers", negating the Industrial revolution.

@eliyahuohiyon7461

2 жыл бұрын

@@FlameG102 do you understand the fact that ANYBODY "owned" another human being is horrific. And the fact that they equated a human life to be the same as a piece of farm equipment is ungodly.

My gosh classical Politics of America is quite good on conflict of ideas.

@ednakelley814

4 жыл бұрын

well they would duel so...

@robertortiz-wilson1588

2 жыл бұрын

@@ednakelley814 maybe we should bring that back as well

@metalrocker627

7 ай бұрын

@@ednakelley814No. Hamilton dueled with Aaron Burr. Jefferson’s VP.

@ednakelley814

7 ай бұрын

@@metalrocker627 I know that. My comment did not mean that Jefferson and Hamilton dueled but rather "they" as in earlier American politicians.

@metalrocker627

7 ай бұрын

@@ednakelley814 Be specific next time, okay?

Thomas Jefferson was our most important President and the greatest American that ever lived. God Bless Thomas Jefferson.

@connorhaley3190

Ай бұрын

Personally, as a national conservative, I hate his influence. But I suppose I understand your opinion. I’m Canadian, if anything my government is even more of a puppeteer

Not even interrupting each other.

@AttilatheNun-xv6kc

5 ай бұрын

They actually listened to each other!

Was this in the room where it happened?

I loved watching this

The primary role of any legitimate government is to protect the rights of its citizens. It is not to control those God-Given rights.

@vidyanandbapat8032

Жыл бұрын

That's absolutely right. Declaration of Independence is crystal clear about the same.

@connorhaley3190

Ай бұрын

As a national conservative, I disagree slightly

very entertaining and enlightening!

The incredible complexities of both men’s ideologies have no words to describe it. These men were geniuses, while I lean more toward Jefferson’s view as a whole, Hamilton makes great points, and I simply won’t discount them because of a rivalry between these two men.

@AttilatheNun-xv6kc

3 ай бұрын

They eventually became enemies. However personal their animus became, there was still a residue of (for want of a better term) mutual respect. In the 1800 presidential election Hamilton put his personal animosity to Jefferson aside and urged voters to support Jefferson over the other main candidate, Aaron Burr. Hamilton saw Burr as an unscrupulous opportunist. I'm paraphrasing here, but I recall Hamilton at that time said something like, "Although Mr. Jefferson's principles are completely antithetical to my own, at least he has principles."

"the mighty little Madison" has me DECEASED 😭😭😭 though seriously, love this skit sm!!

Love these video's.

Hamilton was a Burkean conservative, while Jefferson was a classical Enlightenment liberal. That's all there is too it.

@johnweber4577

6 ай бұрын

Indeed. The pervasive historical illiteracy around these two, with the Right gravitating toward Jefferson and the Left gravitating toward Hamilton nowadays, is pretty astounding when you know how they were understood in their own time.

Oh how Jefferson would be turning over in his grave if he saw our national debt today.

Bruh when Hamilton said "I respectfully disagree" I felt that

@chaoticantifreeze

Жыл бұрын

@@leomate8301 Yeah, the Federalists we're truly what the Republic needed in a time of great strife.

Jefferson believed the American Revolution was about ending nobility and creating democracy. Hamilton believed the American Revolution was about creating American sovereignty and self determination.

@whathahk

9 ай бұрын

Hmmm I don't know how you see that.......... Hamilton wanted big government.......

@yagamifire7861

8 ай бұрын

@@whathahk Correct. Hamilton basically wanted his own American nobility

@youtubeaccount6539

7 ай бұрын

How does that go against what I said?

Every American should watch this

This is so cool. I wish people thought and spoke like this today.

@whathahk

9 ай бұрын

Agree, we sure lost a lot from those days!

Thomas Jefferson is the oracle of American Democracy and whose ideals inspire the freedom fighters around the world.

@mountvernon

6 жыл бұрын

And Jefferson was very inspired too by the writings of John Locke. This is why debate, freedom of thoughts and civilized discourse is so important to preserve.

@robinsss

5 жыл бұрын

he wanted to free the slaves but the south was against it

@SheevPalpatine66420

5 жыл бұрын

@@robinsss citation please

@robinsss

5 жыл бұрын

Thomas Jefferson was a man of contraditions. He introduced a bill to end slavery, in 1779…………………………….www.awesomestories.com/asset/view/Thomas-Jefferson-Bill-to-End-Slavery

@keitht24

4 жыл бұрын

@@robinsss Except of course the slaves he was raping. And his view was to free the slaves then deport them back to Africa. Hamilton was a true abolitionists, who believed in a multi ethnic society.

We have now the strong Central Govt. that Hamilton wanted but look where we are at . Jefferson was correct on more issues . Govts. are made of people . That's something that Hamilton never thought of . The same people in Govt. now that are the wealthy and powerful lauding over the common man and enriching themselves .

10:27 - sounds like what has explicitly happened

The Declaration of Independence clearly states that the US will be "Free and INDEPENDENT STATES".... Hamilton changed that with the Federalism format....

Am I the only one that had to do a mental double take on Hamiltons "confederate currency" comment, wondering WTF he was talking about 4 score and 7 yrs too early? Till I remembered articles of confederation was a confederacy and not federation.

@robertortiz-wilson1588

2 жыл бұрын

Had me for a second too before I thought about it and remembered

What a civil argument nobody even had to say good day sir

Such a blunder sometimes it makes me wonder why I even bring the thunder...

@zakku_88

2 жыл бұрын

Why he even brings the thunder

It was nice of Thomas Jefferson to resurrect himself for this debate!

How do I both agree with Jefferson and Hamilton?

@robertortiz-wilson1588

2 жыл бұрын

Because they were both extremely intelligent and both their views balanced each other out, creating the USA we have today.

@AYVYN

Жыл бұрын

You agree with thoughts, not minds

Where are the soucres of these from?

Are these statements those of the author who wrote this screenplay, or those of Jefferson and Hamilton?

Jefferson is the idealist spirit of the Revolution, Hamilton is the pragmatist nation-state builder. Hamilton and the banks won and the American people made a deal with Mephistopheles. The most prosperous, powerful nation on Earth with over 10% of citizens below the poverty line and about half own property

@gaffgarion7049

Жыл бұрын

You can hardly blame Hamilton for that. It wasn't Hamiltons ideals that allowed robber barons and plutocrats to usurp the intentions of state. It was the Weakness of the government that allowed men of means to usurp it and only then empower it to carry out their will under the guise of the law.

For a minute I thought I was watching an interview on CSPAN

Jefferson and Hamilton HATED each other. They would NEVER sit down together and alone. They would have needed another person to moderate any debate...someone like Washington.

@whathahk

9 ай бұрын

You don't know that............. 🥴

@thonatim5321

9 ай бұрын

@@whathahk Actually, yes I do. I have read many letters from each man and it is clearly obvious.

@whathahk

9 ай бұрын

@@thonatim5321 How you know they never sad down together? That is the question! Sure they didn't like each other, but politics is a different animal, And Jefferson was a smart politician!!!

@thonatim5321

9 ай бұрын

@@whathahk I was there.

This is so cool

Jeffersons ideas come off as overly utopian. Hamiltons stance is realistic, but in the long term won't succeed if the common man doesn't share the values that Jefferson believe are inherent to every person. Jefferson was an optimist with essentially no plan. IE: the less government that exists the better. In reality, government HAS to exist, as Hamilton posits, but it won't succeed unless people behave, on a individual level, like Jefferson assumes they will. This is the true crux of the debate. Jefferson wants to abolish establishment and, in my opinion, wrongfully assumes everything will work its way out. Hamilton understands governmental institutions have to exist for a country to flourish, but is taking a gamble on hoping the average citizen is better than they are. Ultimately, the common man decides the fate of a nation, regardless of whom you agree with in this debate.

Was this based on actual papers by them?

Met the man playing Jefferson at Monticello. It was erie looking at him.

Seeing where we’re at I think we know who was right..

I am amused by people in the comments cheering on the idea of Jefferson's mostly agrarian populace by doing so on devices and systems that would never have been invented, built, marketed, or distributed under such a system.

@attiepollard7847

Жыл бұрын

Nothing is wrong with agrarian society

It's like Jefferson knows me and what I support, as a Jeffersonian Socialist myself.

Perhaps they are modified from their original conversation.

"say a national a bank" meme level

The Federalists, led by Secretary of Treasury Alexander Hamilton, wanted a strong central government, while the Anti-Federalists, led by Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson, advocated states' rights instead of centralized power.

General men how's it going🐇

I really think weve gone too far down the Hamiltonian path and have failed to stay balanced. If you want to advocate more for state rights youll actually hear people say stuff like "youre racist and want slavery to come back" which is bonkers af.

but where did it take place

@Phishegghead

4 жыл бұрын

No one else was in the room when it happened

@Brianbravo2000

3 жыл бұрын

Joshua Uhri haha Hamilton reference

Hi Alexander Hamilton

Where's the part where Jefferson calls his opponent a hermaphrodite?

@robertortiz-wilson1588

2 жыл бұрын

It's not election season.

A little frustrating. The Jefferson impersonator seems to be speaking as an idealized Jefferson and Ian Rose is directly quoting Hamilton's words and really channelling him. Then again, as a debater, the Jefferson in this is pretending to agree with everything and restating points as something completely different to exaggerate disagreement. This is one of the most aggravating things to deal with as a debater, I'm a lil surprised Rose/Hamilton didn't lose his cool. It also may be an intentional character trait added to the actor's Jefferson. Good debate overall, though. They both have great ideas and also some horrible faults.

Jefferson was a good man, but Hamilton was far more intelligent, consistent, and practical in both his political and economic philosophy. Isolationists tend to favor Jefferson, while Imperialists would favor Hamilton.

@armoredninja4975

4 жыл бұрын

It is a little more complicated than that. Hamilton was a nationalist while Jefferson was an internationalist. Jefferson would have loved the idea of a League of Nations or a United Nations just like FDR. Why use force and intimidation when you can sit at a table and talk to negotiate. He would have seen conquest and war to be incompatible with a republican form of gov’t. He wouldn’t have approved of a republic attacking another republic. In fact he would have condemned it. You have to understand that imperialism is rooted in nationalism ie “America first” idea.

@porsche911sbs

4 жыл бұрын

Frankly Jefferson's economic ideas became outdated during the Gilded Age, when the U.S. transitioned from an agrarian culture to an industrial one. Jefferson was worried about the government exploiting the people, but he didn't foresee a future where industrial corporations became powerful enough to oppress their laborers. Perhaps Jeffersonian notions of self-reliance will become in vogue again some time in the future but that seems far off. Hamilton on the other hand correctly predicted the US's future as a financial and industrial power.

@Braylon18

3 жыл бұрын

Hamilton's vision led to disaster. Give me a gd break lol.

@briansheehan3430

3 жыл бұрын

@@Braylon18 Hamilton's vision led to the Constitution.

@Braylon18

3 жыл бұрын

@@briansheehan3430 Hamilton's visions of corporatism and a central bank has destroyed our country. He was a nationalist and that vision has led to ruin.

People don't debate like this anymore. Nowadays it's one person keeping their composure and presenting facts while the other person has a tantrum and screams "BIGOT!!!" Once they start name-calling you during a debate, you've won the argument.

@cf3304

Жыл бұрын

I prefer to yell socialist. There's no talking to savages like them.

How right was Jefferson in the end. He may well have been a prophet.

TEAM JEFFERSON!

Jefferson ftw

Ironically, I know that both the First and Second Chartered National Bank of the United States were burned to the ground because of shady business practices. Yet, the Federal Reserve, a private bank, has not been burned to the ground, despite it's shady practices, because of a quorum in 1913 which unlawfully ceded monetary control of the government to that bank. At the same time, federal taxes have sustained that bank, all the while that bank, being the Federal Reserve, has inflated our money to the point it is nearly worthless. One dollar in 1913 is now, a century later, worth only 4¢ or less. It is a travesty to any rational sensibility that such a theft of money from everyone, rich or poor, should not go unaudited or unpunished. The Federal Reserve deservedly needs to be abolished, and sound monetary policy restored to America by the House of Representatives in Congress, as the federal Constitution demands. Congress, not the Federal Reserve, sets the value of our money -- not the Federal Reserve using interest rates to control inflation. Yet for over 100 years, the Federal Reserve has done exactly what Tom Jefferson feared: Stolen the economic freedom of America's people via financiers and monocrats who think they know better than ordinary citizens how to execute sound financial policy. Because of this arrogance on the part of the financiers, and the apathy of the people, the people are nearly enslaved to the debt of previous generations.

Jefferson and Hamilton Debate Federal vs. I know nothing about this subject synopsis pls ,just a few words

Jefferson for the win! 💪🏻🇺🇸

Keep the e.c. !!!

Jefferson was right.

the electoral collage is a shame.

@attiepollard7847

21 сағат бұрын

No it is not. If you want to be president and you have to go to those States and make your case to the people if you want to get over 270 votes

I'm in agreement with Hamilton that local governments will have inherent bias and that the common man should never have a direct vote over the leader of all united states.

Texas governor brought me here 😂

Well...it looks like Jefferson was right. Hamiltonian America is not going so swell.

@vidyanandbapat8032

Жыл бұрын

How could Jefferson have purchased Louisiana from France had there been no large pile of cash with federal reserve created by Hamilton?

it this the real people?!?!?

@jaym48

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, but the videography was not as good as today; however, impressive lighting.

@dawnnewell237

2 жыл бұрын

@@jaym48 Ahahahahaha!

Hamilton always meant “we need a strong ….” King, and all his peers knew it. F Hamilton, and … modern Hamiltonians.

How incredibly frustrating to listen to. Both men keep repeating their ideas, without ever bothering to explain or defend them.

When Hamilton talked about the size of his hands I lost all interest.

this is wrong.. (state).. similar to the meaning state of the nation.. are we at war.. if so.. there are laws within the bill of rights which asjust slightly.. 📜🇺🇸

@cmoonshinez

Жыл бұрын

*adjust..

@cmoonshinez

Жыл бұрын

george washington was very disappointed in alexander hamilton upon learning the connection alexander kept with british ideology..

Hamilton was a realist. Jefferson was a hypocritical idealist.

@attiepollard7847

Жыл бұрын

Exactly how Jefferson was a hypocrite? How is it hypocritical to leave most of the power to the individual states?

Jus waiting for some cry baby calling this racist

So the one is a Democrat that says people are stupid can't think for themselves so they need smarter people who are us who buy golly won't be driven by our own ambitions and ambivalence and greed and desires for power no no the federal government would never have any of those kind of considerations over the other person who's saying no we can all be educated to a point to where we can make good decisions about government but that just means that you're gonna lose your power base and so the other guy basically goes into well you need to be canceled mode. Huh very interesting I think that I've found the underlying poison of the Democratic Party and it's progressive nonsense today we use the people are not capable of making good decisions you must have a government what a bunch of Crap. If Hamilton had died in a duel a lot earlier I think America would have been better off

@negbefla6956

2 жыл бұрын

Hamilton is commonly lauded by the right (for focus on business class, commerce)

@puncherdavis9727

Жыл бұрын

@@leomate8301 that's a stunning argument you have their first an ad hominem attack and then they were right no matter what. I would say that your post-modernism Kool-Aid must taste very good

@puncherdavis9727

Жыл бұрын

@@leomate8301 you might have a better discussion with yourself you can call yourself names all day long but I'm not in the habit of continuing conversations with people that just call me names have a nice day

where's the rapping??? so inaccurate! XD

Unfortunately looks like you won Mr. Hamilton. I imagine your thanking the tyrant Lincoln.

I love this video. Two of the best at what they do. Love Barker & love Jefferson. TJ was the man.