My Methods, YOUR Program. Get BaseStrengthA.I. here: www.BaseStrength.com/the-app Proudly sponsored by Barbell Apparel! Get BRMLY merch at www.barbellapparel.com/bromley History of bodybuilding documentary: kzread.info/dash/bejne/gGhqw7yEhM27qaQ.htmlsi=3kq6AkTym42XUDuk

@G2S_Tv

2 ай бұрын

Need some help I m 80; percent blind and First 4 months of real lifting and already at 280; on squat and bench check me out

@cameronhutchison4610

2 ай бұрын

Will base strength AI make a program for a strongman competition based on the 5 or 6 specific events in the strongman comp?

@Potent_Techmology

2 ай бұрын

Could you please do a vid about lifting with minimal CNS activation ? For those who have nervous system disorders and lifting hard just wipes them out

@drj-pp8hw

2 ай бұрын

LMAO another low quality "AI" grift

@G2S_Tv

2 ай бұрын

@@drj-pp8hw I'm trying to train people real good rates and great knowledge

cant wait to see sticky rickys critique of bromleys critique of jeffs critique of sams training

@rafaelt8589

2 ай бұрын

Honestly i cant wait to see him saying exactly what bromley does but 10mins earlier bc of his adhd rants

@Barbellcoachkasper

2 ай бұрын

@@rafaelt8589”THANK YOU FOR BEING MY FRIEEEEEEND”

@Brc-kg1mg

2 ай бұрын

@@rafaelt8589 You take that back about sticky ricky;s unhinged rants . Thats what were there for

@rafaelt8589

2 ай бұрын

@@Brc-kg1mg oh no i meant that in the best way possible, big boogs wouldnt be himself without the rants

@chaosdisciple3052

2 ай бұрын

🎵"AHTHANK YOU FOR BEING MY FAH-RIEND!"

Greg isn't a fan of evidence because there is none for turkesterone

@joegibbs5611

2 ай бұрын

That's a lie, and you're a liar. Greg brings the receipts for everything, bud!

@Wildkoala1

2 ай бұрын

@@joegibbs5611naw he doesn’t

@Crustytowel6

2 ай бұрын

Greg’s the goat

@jesseb5710

2 ай бұрын

​@joegibbs5611 what receipts did he bring for his bullshit turkesterone supplement 😂

@urielOrnstein

2 ай бұрын

@@Crustytowel6 Lying harder than last time!

That dude really compared a 5’11 roided out freak entering his prime to a 5’5 natural powerlifter in his mid 30s

Just a note: Jeff said, in the snippet Greg commented on, that he watched every training video this year. Not ever. 2024. Very doable.

@davida730

2 ай бұрын

Plus you have to think with the size of Jeff's audience he has hired help who could be watching the videos and cutting out only the workouts for Jeff to watch. Jeff doesn't need to know what Sam ate for breakfast or where he buys groceries to do the video he did.

@melker617

Ай бұрын

and also if you know of jeff beyond just his existence you know he’s def the type of guy to put in that work and watch all those videos, attentively as well, I’m ngl I even think the only reason he watched the ones this year is because sam is relatively new to fitness compared to jeff, so jeff knows that in just a couple months at the stage sam is you can change quite a lot in your training, I’m certain jeff would’ve even watched every single video ever if he felt it was relevant to the video he was making, but he would get more accurate data from exclusively including the videos from this year

Honestly, I was surprised people were that mad about Nippard's video, since it seemed pretty reasonable to me.

@TheDarkLasombra

2 ай бұрын

Yea, he just pointed out pros and cons according to current science. It's not that crazy.

@abdalhadifitouri131

2 ай бұрын

Yeah I agree. And at the end he says Sam's workouts are pretty good and he exceeds at the two most important things: he puts a ton of effort and he loves lifting

@MayVeryWellBeep

2 ай бұрын

Going to the gym isn't particularly complicated. You eat a lot and lift hard. Now that PEDs are so easily available, the Gymfluencer ecosystem is becoming overpopulated and they are beginning to eat each other in desperation for content

@himeshsinghshishodiya

2 ай бұрын

Yep. The roid rage is real. Also, Jeff said in his video, "maybe rules don't matter when you are enhanced" which probably hurt some people. ​@@MayVeryWellBeep

@melker617

Ай бұрын

it’s genuinely better than I could even expect, I personally really enjoy sam and his perspective on everything fitness related, and even I was expecting a little more critique than he got, Jeff gave a very clear unbiased and accurate view of sam’s training imo

It’s odd to me that Jeff literally did a great job on this critique using science and research while being kind about it and a lot of ppl saw that and was like “nOoOo! Sam huge, my feelings, books bad” 😂. This community is crazy.

@RevShifty

2 ай бұрын

I don't even know who the hell Sam is. But whatever he's doing is clearly working for his goals, so I don't know if I'd care what someone like Jeff says about anything if I were him, either.

@woogus829

2 ай бұрын

@@RevShifty yep roids will do that for you lol

@RevShifty

2 ай бұрын

@@woogus829 KZread alone is filled with guys on steroids. Very few of them manage to look like Sam. So it clearly took a lot of hard work on top of whatever pharmaceutical help he had. Otherwise a good chunk of KZread would look just like him.

@RevShifty

2 ай бұрын

@@woogus829 There's a metric ton of guys on KZread alone taking roids. Very few of them look anything like Sam. It clearly took a lot of work to end up where he is, or that's how they'd all look.

@woogus829

2 ай бұрын

@@RevShiftyno shit brother 😂😂 no one's saying he doesn't train hard. the point is that his training is effective for HIM because of the roids and genetics. for most natty lifters his lifting style is unnecessary

Strongly push back against any characterization of Doucette as honest. He picks his battles to try to get the veneer of honesty but deep down, he is not, never has been, and probably never will be. This is very common, people will be honest until that honesty impacts them negatively. It's just a tool to benefit them.

@BuJammy

2 ай бұрын

You said "tool". Nice. Chuckle.

@vivalarazausarmyvet4453

2 ай бұрын

Doucette used to promote SARMs and, IIRC, gear. Or at least educate people on it. That stopped a few years ago and I wonder if the time correlates with his supplements. Why push enhanced products that work if you're going to sell products whose efficacy are questionable.

@swagbag7951

2 ай бұрын

@@vivalarazausarmyvet4453why is Mike israetel too p-ssy to debate the goat lyle mcdonald? It’s a business shift for Greg. Mike just scared

@user-hf8dc8xy1o

2 ай бұрын

Nailed it. Its so sad to see the teens who buy hes act and ideolize him and buy hes crappy turk with moms creditcard. Says what he thinks people want to here to get what he wants to get.

@davidfiddleman2312

2 ай бұрын

Agree! I’m a fan of Jeff, you, Dr Mike and I’m just getting into the videos from Alex. Greg drives me nuts. Is even that voice real?

bro clean your room already

@dard4642

2 ай бұрын

Or green-screen it out

@squatcurldeadlift7346

2 ай бұрын

Angry Jordan Peterson noises

@yeehawpartner3893

2 ай бұрын

The lobsters!

@danisrusski6297

2 ай бұрын

​@@yeehawpartner3893something something benzos

@leonardo9259

2 ай бұрын

Peterson's life and room looks even worse than Bromley's lmao​@@squatcurldeadlift7346

Now if Greg would take that same stance on "research" in regards to the supplements he sells...

@leonkennedy9739

2 ай бұрын

I'm not going to disagree with his BS supps but Greg was more in line with Sam just lift more than last time.

@ancientideas

2 ай бұрын

Bros gotta make a living somehow. I think Greg rationalizes that his bs supplements is a way to trigger people to work out more and in doing so get some sort of positive response. Placebos work and people who think they are on some sort of secret sauce will work out more to maximize returns. He makes money and the supplements at least isn't hurting people and it might even get people to show up to the gym more which is his whole message.

Drugs, genetics, and Survivorship bias are the magic ingredients.haha

@DCJayhawk57

2 ай бұрын

100%. The reason why the top guys are top guys is down to tolerance and response to drugs. Being an elite natural helps, that will make you Mr. Olympia, but there are plenty of pros who weren't anything special natural. Being able to tolerate the high doses is what turns the majority of pros into pros. And even then, I use tolerate loosely, since most of these guys won't live to see age 65 (and some won't make it out of their 40s, like Rhoden and McMillan...or 20s, like McCarver).

@Egoliftdaily

2 ай бұрын

@@DCJayhawk57 well said.

@Egoliftdaily

2 ай бұрын

@@DCJayhawk57 my 3rd and last ever PED cycle (test and deca) was back in 2019. I don't see the benefit in using PEDs in my case so I will never use again. Anyway, my friend hooked me up with the same seller as his. He was suffering from severe back achne as his physique was transforming while I was having zero achne with little change in physical appearance to the point I started thinking I had fake gear. Apart from improving gym performance, the lab results showed otherwise - the side effects on Blood count showed it was the real deal. It was real, I just responded very differently. So yeah, we had very different responses to the same stuff from the same seller. It really does boil down to response. Most Pros are basically just people that are the best responders. That's a truth the general public would not want to accept. Because most would want to believe drugs work like magic and guaranteed to transform everyone into Mr Olympia.

@robertopalacio8640

Ай бұрын

I agree I don't see what so hard for these guys to understand.All the training methods work giving the genetic potential.

To be fair to Jeff, he said he watched all the videos Sam made "this year" not every single video he's ever watched.

2 ай бұрын

Yeah, there was nothing wrong with his critique

@watsonkushmaster3067

2 ай бұрын

Idk how everybody is missing that lol

@GVS

2 ай бұрын

Think Greg hates Jeff so much he has selective hearing. Watching all the videos someone puts out in a year isn't that crazy of a concept.

“Greg Ducette is honest” ok Bromley.

@anthonybenincasa

2 ай бұрын

At times, but definitely not about Turk

@zachlloyd9392

2 ай бұрын

I believe this statement was in regards to training, but could be wrong.

The first video of the dude in black and white has to be the worst conglomerate of strawmans in a row I’ve ever seen

@gigithebird2151

2 ай бұрын

Fuck it this entire video is a bad strawman

@BrennanCh06

2 ай бұрын

Hes clearly not put in reps with his brain

@nightwing5405

2 ай бұрын

It's not the first time "big Mike" has spewed his illogical bs arguments here NH had something to say when he tried to shit on natural lifters kzread.info/dash/bejne/YoSc1M2olZO9YbQ.htmlsi=UnzL0JGHtunk4Axf

@DCJayhawk57

2 ай бұрын

Tren brain.

@jansettler4828

2 ай бұрын

He compares a huge natty guy who he calls tiny to a fucking roid monster and wants to be taken seriously?

I don't understand what's all the fuss about?? Just watched Jeff's video, and he was very kind and balanced in his analysis. He praised Sam and just criticized a few things. That other dude in black and white was tripping for no reason and throwing fallacies left and right. I don't understand the hate on Jeff for this, he gave his point of view and suggestions while also being open minded. I don't know what else you want from someone making an analysis like this?

Alex Bromley critiqued Jeff Nippard critiquing Sam Sulek.... It Ruled

@Failsafeman100

2 ай бұрын

Someone needs to critique someone else critiquing this video

@ShovelChef

2 ай бұрын

KostendtO just reviewed Alex critiquing Jeff critiquing Sam. It was fine. 😊

@beburs

2 ай бұрын

I really love ❤️ science 🤬🤬🤬🤬

@DrewbattleTheGreat

2 ай бұрын

Im about to critique this critique of a critique

@santiagobalado5643

2 ай бұрын

Pfffff juicy genetic freak vs Teh Nipples master of SCIENCE RECAPITULATION, lol

Dont train like Sam unless youre on gear like Sam is all i got

@averyso6669

2 ай бұрын

I disagree. You can train like Sam, but not with the same frequency as Sam. As a natural lifter I barely leave 1 rir and often times do partials to failure and even drop sets to failure (even squats, and we all know most people sham on leg day). It’s fun, but it drains me and I definitely have times where I’m dead tired from overtraining. But it’s what works for me and as long as I’m still seeing progress I don’t see why I would change up

@thefakedeal

Ай бұрын

​@@averyso6669"I disagree you can train like sam unless you change the main aspect of how sam trains like"

Never heard of black and white boomer guy I watch Jeff Nippard I watch many others too I liked his breakdown of Sams style because it juxtaposed his own which I believe he mentioned in the vid I dont follow either style myself I pick and choose what works for me by seeing a wide variety and applying it myself I dont record passive aggressive black and white tictocs tho Im not a lady

What works for Sam wouldn’t necessarily work for someone else. Especially with the sauce. And calling nippard dmall is crazy. He’s in phenomenal shape and size

@soxnotsocks

2 ай бұрын

He's 5'5" 160lbs. He has a great physique, but he is the size of a 14 year old

@DrewbattleTheGreat

2 ай бұрын

@@soxnotsocks he’s 5,5. Any bigger and he’ll start to get fat. To maintain a lean physique at 5,6 is impressive with the amount of muscle he has. Y’all comparing him to a sauced out roid fiend who weighs 240 pounds lean

@soxnotsocks

2 ай бұрын

@@DrewbattleTheGreat I didn't compare him to anyone. The point was that it was crazy to call him small. And the fact is that he is a small dude. Ya can't deny that. It's like saying Victor Wembiama isn't tall. His height isn't anything he can help, but it is how tall he is. He's a small dude

@DCJayhawk57

2 ай бұрын

​@@soxnotsocks Derek Lunsford is about the same height. Is he small? Sam Sulek is what, 5'9"? They're both short to anyone over 6'. We're talking bodybuilding, which is an assessment of muscularity for your frame. Sam looks like he does because of the drug abuse and above average genetics. I think Jeff has much better genetics than Sam, people are just deluded as to how much a difference it makes being enhanced. I'll put it this way, if Jeff were to hop on for a few years and tolerate it, he would look better than Sam. More proportionate, better structure and symmetry, better flow. Sam looks like your average meathead, he's nothing special. Him being as popular as he is comes from a trick of the algorithm. Anyone thinking Sam has a chance on a pro stage are as delusional as those who thought Calum Von Moger had a shot in Classic Physique before his injuries.

@soxnotsocks

2 ай бұрын

@DCJayhawk57 If we are talking about body building, then we are talking about a 160-pound guy. guys like Sam and Nick Walker are short. They both have 100 lbs on Jeff. That's why we use adjectives. Sam and Nick are big, not tall. Words have meaning. Everything isn't an insult, nor is it an attack on someone's lifestyle. Dude is small in any measurement you use. Strong? Yes. But still small

Any peer reviewed studies on how peer reviewed studies affect training outcomes?

@Skoopyghost

2 ай бұрын

In my experence of lifting. You throw everything at the sink, and find out what works. What science is there to it.

@CondeVaro

2 ай бұрын

We're waiting on the meta-analysis

@foppsly

2 ай бұрын

Would be interesting to do a study assigning two groups to the same exact program but one of them being told its an "optimized science based" program and the other being told its a "bro science/anecdotal program" and seeing if the science based lifters do better due to a placebo effect.

@run_emmy_run

2 ай бұрын

that’s referred to as a literature review.

@hugosantiago6496

2 ай бұрын

@@Skoopyghostyou’re practicing the scientific method there brother

be it land sea or air, if it is one on one always bet on bromley in his goon cave

@blastermaster7261

2 ай бұрын

Perhaps we should float the goon cave to a better area 🤔

@beburs

2 ай бұрын

@@blastermaster7261maybe wano’s capital, they should be a good base for empire barbell goon activities

@Skoopyghost

2 ай бұрын

I think he has a wife. Gooners having wifes has to be rare.

@blastermaster7261

2 ай бұрын

@@beburs genius. Hope no random apes knock us out of the sky while we goon our way there.

@rafaelt8589

2 ай бұрын

If you are unsure of how clean the room is, always bet on the goon cave

Ehhh. I don’t have a problem with Nippard. Yeah, he uses a lot of “junk science” and small, very recent, very limited studies to make claims on things, but it’s not like he’s saying “Everything else is dog shit and doesn’t work!” He’s just trying to say “Hey, according to these studies, THIS stuff over here could be more efficient,” which is true in many cases. Yeah, Sam Sulek doesn’t have an Uber-Optimized Nerdbrain Routine™️ that he follows, and is still a monster, but he also just tore the fuck outta his pec. He does things that make him prone to injury and statistically offer less benefit over time. There is a lot of real, solid science showing limited ROM is less efficacious than full ROM. Mike Israetel says the same things in critique of Sam, although he’s not as preachy as Jeff, and no one’s giving him shit about it. People just stir up unnecessary drama for views and it really shows. End of the day, Jeff clearly wasn’t being aggressive or condescending, Greg Douchette’s being a Douchette, and idk who the tryhard oldhead dude is

@Sjcstro84

2 ай бұрын

Try hard old dude is an ibbf pro, who probably didn't train science either. I love rp too. I train rp style.

@DCJayhawk57

2 ай бұрын

​@pearce123456789 They give out pro cards like candy. I know a couple IFBB pros at my gym who look very meh. Van Wyck looked like absolute trash during his competitive days, I suggest anyone in need of cheering up look up some of his photos. Also, back to my point about pro cards, just look at the lineup for the smaller pro shows, most of the competitors will never sniff an Olympia stage.

@patrickbateman9077

2 ай бұрын

Problem with Jeff’s stuff is a lot of his followers are noob-early intermidiate lifters who swear by these 1 arm lilac row bs exercise’s without ever rowing 2 plates for reps, hitting a 315 bench, 400 squat etc. they barely look like they lift and live and die by the science instead of focusing on building a base by progressively overloading big compound lifts and eating, resting adequately etc

@Micheldied

2 ай бұрын

Stop, stop. That's just thinking logically and understanding nuance. Most people can't do that.

@vinvinvichii

2 ай бұрын

@@patrickbateman9077noobs are doing what noobs should do. They found a decent source of information and are applying it to their training. They are learning. That’s what you want. Then they will watch another video, learn more, and adapt it into their training. It’s called growth. Learning and trail and error is all part of the process.

3:45 "Sam looks 1000% better than Jeff" maybe to you. Personally even though i love muscle a lot, i'd say Jeff has a better physique. Sam is just big because hes taking an absurd amount of juice. Granted Jeff is also big in large part due to his genetics, but he still has a more well proportioned physique.

@JohnathonAkaBoog

2 ай бұрын

I think this is true and understated. Sam is definitely pounding the sauce back. If Jeff is legit a Natural then his Physique is absolutely incredible.

@AlexanderBromley

2 ай бұрын

And I prefer Gal Gadot to Iris Kyle, but bodybuilding isn't scored on personal preference. Building mass is hard so we generally credit the person with more of it as being more successful.

@taylorhillard4868

2 ай бұрын

@@AlexanderBromley you know that's not true, otherwise the guys that we can clearly tell are using synthol would get good ranks. Proportion is just as important as mass. And Jeff has his proportions chiseled out bettef.

@funkydoggie6487

2 ай бұрын

​​@@AlexanderBromley L take

@JohnathonAkaBoog

2 ай бұрын

@AlexanderBromley Mass wise Sam definitely trumps Jeff but they wouldn't compete in the same weight class or division. That's even if we said jeff is not natural. I think one of the things though people are not looking at is that Jeff has competed though in Powerlifitng and Bodybuilding and done well in each. As it stands to my knowledge Sam hasn't competed ever yet and may be one of those people who "Always wants to travel the world" but never pulls the trigger. Also I understand it's the internet/youtube game these days but I'd imagine you also know you and Jeff would have more matching opinions than differing on most training and programming aspects.

A critique within a critique within a critique within a cri….

@zerrodefex

2 ай бұрын

Critiqueception

Proven science is just marketing like putting Sam Sulek in your title.

@AlexanderBromley

2 ай бұрын

hahah FAX

@mytruthslays1303

2 ай бұрын

That's typically what happens when the substance is below par.

@PinataOblongata

2 ай бұрын

No, it absolutely isn't. Science tells us the difference between reality and our own biases/assumptions and nothing around you would exist/work without it. The problem is that there is just not a lot of quality science in the little sports science niche (mostly due to sampling difficulties) and the way people take scientific findings and apply them in this area is also often flawed (and Brom has covered this well). Also, we don't use the word "proven" in science, we use "supported", because it is understood that new evidence can always change the state of play. This does not mean you should just ignore good quality evidence for a mechanism or intervention or whatever, it's just to note that people tend to misunderstand how science works and the language it employs. If you see anything saying "100% proven" then yeah, it's marketing, but it's not science.

@usedcolouringbook8798

2 ай бұрын

@@PinataOblongata The marketing department would like to politely disagree because they hold the checkbook.

@glenoh88

2 ай бұрын

@@PinataOblongataaccording to science you shouldn’t exist. The odds that u were born is astronomical. If you add the odds up from your grandparents all the way to you, you are insignificant….Just a statistical anomaly. That’s science, all fact.

I get that there are multiple paths to a destination but from watching people like Jeff and RP, I've always gotten the impression that they are trying to maximize growth with minimized effort or risk of injury. Being as strong and big as humanly possible is not a health goal but everyone in this space is obsessed with big numbers

@TheTinyTimmyTimTim

3 күн бұрын

I have this weird and unique thing called a JOB. I’m on my feet for 8 hours. I’ve gotten what I consider to be a really good physique (or so I’m told) by approaching it through a science based lens. If I just “TRAINED HARDER THAN LAST TIEM!!!!” I’d have destroyed my already fucked up knees and shoulder joints. Jeff seems to understand his audience better (hence the success) than Greg or Mike do. They really think IFBB pros are watching their shit. Newsflash, 99% of your viewers are skinny white kids at the gym in pajamas and wife beater with Beats by Dre headphones around their neck, not Chris Bumstead.

No I agree with Jeff, he was right

So I'm clearly confused on this. Jeff wasn't exactly critiquing Sam's physique, he's critiquing the training. I'm not one for all optimal and science based training but everyone can get better?

@chrisadams2808

2 ай бұрын

Do you think if Sam did what Jeff says is optimal he would be better? Maybe this shows that the stuff he goes on about isn’t actually important at all. That’s the point

@charlesjohnson873

2 ай бұрын

@@chrisadams2808 that makes a lot of sense. I watched the history of the bodybuilding thing that Bromley was talking about and I understand what he's saying. I thought it would help avoid injury but what is explained in the video is that not everyone gets injured doing the same training. Thank you

@foppsly

2 ай бұрын

@@chrisadams2808 its possible. But you have to take into account what someone is actually going to adhere to (if they'll show up less for a different style of training). You can make the most optimal training program possible but it wouldn't matter if you hated it and never trained because of that. Also lets not ignore that sam looks like his heart is gonna explode with the diet and weight of an obese man. On paper what you have is an obese person who refuses to change their diet, lifestyle habits, or drug abuse. I don't think aesthetics change the fact that if we look negatively at obese people on my 600lb life or drug addicts why do we glorify bodybuilders with bigorexia like this so much.

@SnailHatan

2 ай бұрын

@@chrisadams2808So, we’re gonna just go with hypotheticals instead of science with decades of research (in some cases). Good call.

@SnailHatan

2 ай бұрын

@@TheBarbellBanditThat’s not “too far,” your ego is too fragile. Stop watching his fuckin videos if it takes all the fun out. What are you, a literal infant with no self-control?

The hate/pushback that "science based" lifting gets seems to stem from this strawman that they're saying "This is the only way to do this" when thats simply not what most science based lifters say. Does jeff need to Caveat every satement he makes with, "This might not work for you"? No, if a beginner lifter takes any advice as gospel, thats on the lifter, not the teacher.

This is a weird mix of "being dogmatic about science is bad" and "Jeff isn't basing everything he says 100% on science, so he's a hypocrite". o_0 And like 1/3 of the video is arguing for progressive overload?! Who the heck is even arguing *against* that!? Jeff sure isn't. I have the feeling if you remove all the strawmen and some of the insults in the beginning, there's not much left here. It might well be that Sam trains the best way possible for him and science cannot prove that that's not the case. I think that point is legit. But the rest of this video seems to be weirdly disconnected from what Jeff is actually saying.

@98danielray

2 ай бұрын

this ideo was as clickbaity if not more than the presumed "science-based" critique of Sulek

@Micheldied

2 ай бұрын

That's because (and I'm not even a Jeff Nippard fan, I don't watch his stuff much at all) almost every person who has something against "evidence-based" training never really has a compelling argument against it. They'll tell you "paralysis by analysis" and that just training hard, eating, recovering, and being consistent will get you jacked and strong. But pretty much every "science guy" says the same thing, and that evidence-based training just gets you that 1 percent more, so really the anti-science meatheads have nothing to stand on except their rage.

@98danielray

2 ай бұрын

@@Micheldied it would be fine to say they may put emphasis on the wrong things, but the arguments are never addressed directly. it is always some weird appeal to the "basics" as if you could add more to them. on the other hand, pretty much all fitness-adjacent channels focus on some kind of detail that is going to be not so important, this one included. not to mention the weird backhanded compliments sprinkled throughout the video by a guy that is using AI to market a training tool. apparently you can do that, but not put some kind of credence on recent exercise studies.

@Scion15

2 ай бұрын

You just summed up his "critiques" of anything science based. Just talking in circles about nothing.

@SkidMcmarxx

2 ай бұрын

@@Micheldiedbut the weirdest thing to me is that science also gives us stuff like progressive overload, protein consumption 3 sets of 12, etc etc. The basics that bromely is promoting here are also supported by the science.

Didn't the dude in the thumbnail challenge someone dude to a fight and then wus out when he agreed? What a poser

@AlexanderBromley

2 ай бұрын

Who, Mike? Haha that tracks w the black and white videos

@atlaspowershrugged

2 ай бұрын

@AlexanderBromley wierd as it is to say, I'm siding with Jeff here.

@nightwing5405

2 ай бұрын

​@@atlaspowershruggedthanks for actually being unbiased here 👍

@danteghazizadeh1656

2 ай бұрын

He also said it was idiotic to stay natural

@atlaspowershrugged

2 ай бұрын

@danteghazizadeh1656 big coffins right? What a dork.

The falloff memes are the worst of the new wave brainrot

@leonardo9259

2 ай бұрын

6 minutes no likes you fell off

@user-go2xi7zq5q

2 ай бұрын

These are 12 year old Gen Alphas

@ErlingGrey

2 ай бұрын

@@leonardo9259L

@perfectstranger1152

2 ай бұрын

Unironically using brainrot. Nice.

Let's be honest, a better statement ALL the social media critics could use is... "If you wanna get those gains you're gonna have to take loads of PEDS. And if you're not gonna use PEDS, don't expect anywhere near those gains no matter what training style you use."

And after everybody disproves each other with science. Eric bugenhagen’s horsecockery was the last one standing

@locomike102

2 ай бұрын

More is more.

@a-a-rondavis9438

2 ай бұрын

​​​​@@locomike102but more is not always better. The stimulus needed to stimulate muscle growth in any stage of development isn't as much as a Rich Piana 8 hr arm workout or doing 50+ sets a week for a muscle group. It just isn't. We can't grow that much at one time, so not much is needed, RELATIVELY. A pro bodybuilder needs more work to grow than Johnny one plate, but the examples mentioned are excessive.

@TheMasterblah

Ай бұрын

​@@a-a-rondavis9438ok pencil neck. Just get in there and hoist big loads. (I'm just joking)

I like watching these little dramas because its entertaining, but everyone has some little tip or advice that really clicks. The smart athlete picks and chooses things that work for them not because someone says its optimal or scientific, but because you tried it and it worked.

online circle jerks about body building are the manliest thing out there. Not a woman to be seen, just guys living in the moment.

sorry but both sides are problematic here. "you say follow the science and sulek doesn't but look at him!! clearly he doesn't need the science!" or sulek could be even better by following the science? This doucette crap is just a logical fallacy and jeff would be well served to admit that "exercise science" is kinda sh*t low quality research with improper methodology

@Barbellcoachkasper

2 ай бұрын

So where is the scientific research that applies to his specific situation? Is it of high enough quality that he should abandon his current method in favor of what it prescribes?

@namenloss730

2 ай бұрын

@@Barbellcoachkasper mate, you didn't get my point. maybe i wasn't clear enough I'm saying that greg is making a logical fallacy with his statement. I'm not saying the current research is good. i explicitly stated it's bad.

@Barbellcoachkasper

2 ай бұрын

@@namenloss730 I didn’t get that. Read a bit too quickly. We agree.

The body has a limited supply of energy it can get through the digestive system. The brain uses around 20% of that energy budget. If you are wasting an additional 3% thinking hard, maintaining a bigger brain, optimising your nutrition and training etc All of it goes to waste, because no amount of knowledge and thought can compete with just allocating that wasted 3% energy directly to muscle anabolism. All of the evidence suggests it, look at the biggest guys, the biggest guys all clearly do the least amount of thinking. They train bad, they eat bad, but they don't waste energy on their brain and that's what counts. No one thinks as little as a silverback gorilla and no one is bigger or stronger than a silverback gorilla. Thinking is killing your gains. Stop thinking.

@AlexanderBromley

2 ай бұрын

Next vid...

@cx2900

2 ай бұрын

lmao your post made me think of this old gem... promise this isn't a dumbass bot post lol kzread.info/dash/bejne/eHihzNCIf7mWcrw.html

@lawsen3719

2 ай бұрын

I remember seeing a thing were it said chess champions are burning thousands of calories during their matches.

2 ай бұрын

I've got a feeling you're not trolling. You know a lot of us want to train to have fun, learn about our bodies and become better not just be a big dumbfuck gorilla that ruins our bodies by just going hard

@GODOFHELLFIRE3

2 ай бұрын

Eggheads and pencilnecks losing sleep over whether to use 9-second or 10-second eccentrics, meanwhile some dude the size of a house got jacked by monkey-fucking the whole stack on the lat-pulldown.

Would Sam be bigger if he worked out differently? Most likely not, he's probably doing enough work and eating enough food (and taking enough juice) to maximize his results. Could he have achieved the same results with less time and effort in the gym if his training was more optimal? All the evidence says yes. You are simply asking the wrong questions and looking at the wrong things to say just because someone has an impressive physique their training can't be improved. The bottleneck for Sam is not his training quality because his quantity (of volume and raw effort) is so high.

I'm a gardener. My whole life I read, watched and listened that tomatoes need to grow in full sun. The experts would cite all of the scientific and anecdotal garbage under the sun to support this idea and I thought it was something I was doing wrong that made my tomatoes struggle. It was something wrong I was doing actually, giving them full sun like I was told to by the experts. The day I grew tomatoes in dappled shade was the day I did something right. North American and Australian full sun are not equals. The moral of this story is that this situation isn't unique to growing plants and is in actuality the very nature of biological sciences as a whole. In a biological context, if the latest science is your word of God rather than your toolkit for guiding future experimentation through observation and careful thought, then you don't have the intelligence required to leverage scientific research in the first place, and you will have more success copying meat heads.

@tmjz7327

Ай бұрын

Yeah, no shit. What you found out is in agreement with the science: tomatoes require "full sun" relative to a certain climate (e.g. North American) and possibly less sun in another (e.g. Australia).

@Simlatio

Ай бұрын

@@tmjz7327 The native lighting environment of tomatoes is dappled shade and not full sun. North Americans are the overwhelming majority of English literature and education available on the internet, the tomato which is not native to their location is grown as an annual in full sun in order to reach maturity between frosts in their location with reduced solar intensity. I would wager if Central and South Americans had the wealth of the US and spoke exclusively English then a dichotomy of tomato rearing information would naturally have occurred and leave one questioning whether the advice is appropriate to their context, rather than questioning if one followed the advice correctly. Ironically it was a man in North Carolina that suggested growing tomatoes in their native dappled shade if you lived in warmer climates, as he himself struggled with the full sun advice on his own tomatoes. What I find odd is that despite people within the US suffering from the same advice, there hasn't naturally developed a '...but if you live in warmer areas, you will need to provide filtered sunlight to tomatoes' attached to each video. The reason I find this odd is because presentations on peppers frequently address sun scalding issues in warmer climates, again a plant not native to North America and grown as an annual in full sun in the north. If Northerners go out of their way to address excess sun in peppers but omit this from tomatoes, then it leads one to assume tomatoes are tolerant to full sun in all climates, whereas peppers are not tolerant of full sun in warmer climates. This is unfortunately not the case and is equally not as intuitive to be aware of this, when northern tomato experts fail to include such information as diligently as northern pepper experts do. Perhaps North American pepper experts truly are experts for they are better, more insightful and considerate teachers.

I actually love evidence based workouts but only in so far as cross referencing with what i already know about my body or how i feel the most effective during my workouts. Its important to keep in mind that just because a new paper is published doesn't mean your muscles know that.

Lmao that van wyck dude is a massive clown for that.

I guess I always framed the evidence-based guys in terms of “if you’re a normie and want to optimize your efforts, here’s some help.” I think that helps a lot of people to improve themselves and reach some fitness goals, and therefore is noble work. But you make a fair point, it all breaks down once they start getting involved with the freakier stuff and getting entangled with the big leagues, so to speak.

@AlexanderBromley

2 ай бұрын

That's a rational interpretation you would expect a content consumer to make, but it's fundamentally wrong. I blame those creators for the misunderstanding which is why I beat this drum

Aaaaaah my ears , it's been a really long time since i heard that *High-pitch screaming noise* in the back ground again ..

@dlloydy5356

2 ай бұрын

It reminded me why I never watch him. Skipped forward all of that part. Once upon a time he spoke human

I like Jeff and his content, though I tend to work out more intuitively and adapt to my preferences and needs, change things from time to time (high volume vs high intensity), focus on effort, progress, consistency etc - probably closer to your approach. I am interested in research, even if I don't apply it and it does not work well for me (nobody is "average", and research reports only averages). However, I've been working out for 17y - and now I can do it with confidence and understanding of my own body. And if some new research reports something I didn't think of - I'll give it a try, why not. I think the main difference is that Jeff's advice is mostly for beginners and gives a reasonable starting point for people starting out. Then, as you learn technique, your body response, and preferences - you change it up and can ignore such advice. And I also am deeply convinced that beginners will be better off with starting with Jeff's approach, not Sam's - they will burn out or even injure themselves. Would Sam be better with Jeff's advice - I don't think so. He does what works for him and gives him a ton of fun and great results. But most beginners are not Sam. So, given the target audience, I would not hate even this sometimes annoying preacher tone. And Jeff is still super nice, professional, and mentions all the caveats and individual differences and preferences.

Regarding the "ego lifting sloppy form reps". I remember a quote from Dorian Yates regarding his intensity. ~ Dorian:" For sure I would have avoided most of my injuries, if I had trained less intense. But for sure, I would not have been a 6 times Mr. Olympia then either"

@PeterPhantomForces

2 ай бұрын

So then, you should not be sloppy/cheating/ego lifting/overly intense if you're not trying to be mr olympia.

@jessebradford7130

2 ай бұрын

No, you can go hard but not to far. Use good judgment.

@BoeserWolf1977

2 ай бұрын

@@jessebradford7130 you need to be clear about your priorities: Max performance or health...

@leonardo9259

2 ай бұрын

​@@BoeserWolf1977max performance or health is a dichotomy only for roidheads

@Brc-kg1mg

2 ай бұрын

@@leonardo9259 Science shows that staying at home and just walking is even safer than hitting the gym. If you want to maximize your health I suggest you stop hitting the gym.

Bromley u got me cracking up with the background. The halloween decorations, closet door open, everything stacked up. The move-in is real.

@darthkillstealer3181

2 ай бұрын

Clutter Bros checking in

@locomike102

2 ай бұрын

I think he's actively stacking more shit in there for effect. I love it.

@a-a-rondavis9438

2 ай бұрын

​@@locomike102That'd be awesome if he just kept buying things from antique stores and Goodwill until he was literally overflowing with junk in the room and had to throw it over the pile in order to sit and do videos.

Sam isn’t trying to sell crap yet. His content is really a vlog and how he does things. Jeff is more genuine than Greg but both are trying real hard to sell… it’s just freaking working out. You don’t need to pay for that level of advice! If you really want to take it to the level where it’s a profession then there are coaches who can tell you how to do it. Neither Greg nor Jeff are in that realm.

@bmstylee

2 ай бұрын

Not really into Jeff but Greg just sells garbage supps with no actual scientific proof any of them work.

"PhD thesis paper" = dissertation, fyi...anyway, its curious that Bromley seems to think publicly funded university studies are *intended* to spit out precise recommendations to strength and hypertrophy athletes, I mean does he understand study design at a basic level? They tackle very small questions precisely becuase that IS good science. At 5:50 Bromley talks "policing" in-house among scholars - I'd say the conversations between Wolf and Israetel are pretty contentions - but get this - they are cordial because that is how academia works. Everything ain't no a drama shit show. McDonald would have more of a voice if he didn't act like a damn child at times, and I'm speaking from a view that tends to agree with McDonald's criticisms.

@AlexanderBromley

2 ай бұрын

hahaha What??!! My ENTIRE point is that they aren't designed for that! Whats that, your 97th post that amounts to "Bromley doesn't understand science"? I sincerely dont think you understand my basic argument. Milo and Mike argue about the principled way to evaluate research and responsibly disseminate it to an audience they have a financial interest in?? So Mikes called Milo out for saying "research is best thing we have to inform our training?". Oh, nm, they have heated arguments over "lengthened partials or nah".... lol because that's the policing I was talking about. They are cordial because RP is a business entity. I'm not calling Mike outright dishonest but there is zero incentive for him to grandstand against people in his own field. He thinks Menno shits rainbows but never comments on the sensationalism over trash studies.... THAT is what doesn't fly in other disciplines and that is is what needs to be policed. Keep posting though. I always like to start my day with softball to warm up

I think the only difference im not hearing people talk about enough is the fact sam is on roids while jeff is natty. So obviously jeff is gonna offer better training advice cuz he can't get away with free gains training like a bro like sam and other roid monkeys

When he says Sam looks 1000% better than Jeff, he certainly didn't consult any women to get that number lol He is bigger sure, but better looking? Not even close.

@AlexanderBromley

2 ай бұрын

Oh no, these are bodybuilding weirdos who accepted that women do not care about or want 23" arms. But since everything is a competition, more = winning. Ah. To be a man.

@AlgernonBrosplitz

2 ай бұрын

No doubt a female would prefer the twink Nippy Nipps, but for us men looking good equals mogging

@Supersmartandfunnyguy

2 ай бұрын

@@AlexanderBromley Some would say that it's all a (deca)dick measuring contest.

@gavinvandraven

2 ай бұрын

Most women find Jeff’s aesthetics appealing, not Sam’s. Perhaps most people aren’t willing to sacrifice their future selves health for being a mass monster today. The big dudes are just trying to impress other dudes, and I mean, if that’s your thing, you do you.

@DCJayhawk57

2 ай бұрын

If Jeff were enhanced, he would catch up to and likely surpass Sam within a few years. Sam starting down the PED route so young is just damaging his system and peaking too early before the groundwork is laid. Jeff is a pro natural bodybuilder. Sam is nothing at this point, and color me skeptical he gets his IFBB pro card anytime soon with his structure (i.e. narrow clavicles, wide waist). If anything, Sam is maxing himself out much sooner, how much more growth does he have left?

I think when it comes to Jeff or Dr. Mike, you have to understand how to absorb the information they are presenting. Information is good and I think large accurate. The issue is that the advice they give makes up 10% of your success in the other 90% is just training really really hard in a way that will not injure you. For an enhanced person, that’s probably more like 95%. And both Jeff and Dr. Mike have said that they acknowledge that most of their contents is picking apart minutia that will not make the biggest difference in your training, they just don’t acknowledge that often but it’s why they say do what works for you. But if you are like me, a natural lifter, who already has the 90% locked in and that extra 10% makes a big freaking difference to you and it’s something you’re very interested in and that’s where guys like Jeff and Dr. Mike are really useful

Shitting on Jeff simply because he isn’t huge, what if it’s Mike Israetel critiquing Sam, what will be used to shit on Mike? He is bald or he came from USSR when he was a kid back in the days?

@snoop_lion

2 ай бұрын

Mike has also jumped the shark with overly scientific critiques or techniques. There's ego lifters then there's technique cyborgs that use so little weight just to maintain a perfect form through a whole set. If you aren't pushing enough weight to have your form start to break down by 6 or 8 reps, you aren't pushing hard enough.

@TwoForFlinchin1

2 ай бұрын

​@@snoop_lion except that rep range was just pulled out of your ass. 5-20 is good for most as long as you're close to failure

@snoop_lion

2 ай бұрын

@TwoForFlinchin1 it's just a sample rep range. 5 is bare minimum and if you're doing heavy ass 5 reps you're closer to just building strength rather than size, honestly. Plus the next set is gonna be hard to get that 5 again with the same heavy ass weight, let alone hitting 5 reps each time for 3 or 4 or however many sets. But anyway sure you can go to 20 or even 30 if your heart really desires but that's exactly my point, regardless of rep range it should be really hard towards the end of the set. I just chose 8-12 as the example.

“Reaction turducken” made me so happy

I once watched a music producer react to a musician's reaction to that producer's reaction to that musician's music video. I hope to get the same thing here in a couple weeks.

@zerrodefex

2 ай бұрын

Reactoborous

That hoarder’s mess in the background is distracting

Loving the reaction content and the frequent uploads!

lol had me dying when you kept cutting mike van wyck in while jeff was talking. "very nerdy individual" lmao

I didnt see anyone critiquing Samson Dauda when he suggested Sam Sulek to change his way of training. Just because someone got big doing things one way doesnt mean they couldn't have been bigger doing things differently.

@sengunvolkan

2 ай бұрын

cause samson is bigger than sam, einstein

@ASASID2

2 ай бұрын

@@sengunvolkan and so what? If only you can tell what is best for you it doesn't matter how big he is. Also do you think you need to be bigger to give anyone suggestions as if age and experience don't matter? Because that is stupid as fck

@AlexanderBromley

2 ай бұрын

The point of this isn't that no one can criticize Sam, or even that smaller lifters cant... it's that Jeffs basis for criticism is specifically bad

@ASASID2

2 ай бұрын

​@@AlexanderBromley I agree most studies don't apply to professional bodybuilders so they are not a strong basis to give them any advice. But you explicitly agree with Doucette when he says "everything works, just go harder than last time!", which basically invalidates any possible advice. Also, and this is the main point no one commenting Nippard seems to be getting, the video is not to help Sulek. It's a clickbaity way to tell his target audience (probably not IFBB pros) about what from Sulek's style is likely to help them and what not. Still, an interesting video. Thanks for the content

@jerjameswoj

2 ай бұрын

So Samson isn't saying shit that like jeff nippard says? Or Fouad? So let's have mike critique them. He won't.

Preparing for my last bodying season before family planning. So looking forward to starting BaseStrength AI after this. Yea booiii Question- i actually hate checking my phone while training- is there a way to print out the days work or look at it as a list?

My favourite quote on this topic is from a coach of Olympic medalists -- (paraphrased) "the medals don't come with a disclaimer... result not backed by science". His perspective is that high-performing coaches and athletes figure out _what_ works, and science typically comes along later to explain _why_ it does.

I don’t see how you can be hawking an AI strength app and critiquing efforts to find general principles, when the algorithms driving that app must also work from general principles. It’s not like the app knows genetics or training history of the individual (unless someone uses it for years). How did you make selections about that algorithm? Informed by some research, perhaps?

@AlexanderBromley

2 ай бұрын

How would it be informed by research if that research doesn't exist.... It's not generative AI like gpt. It adjusts weight and volume across the workout, week and block based on your feedback from setpoint I set. That's 20 years of coaching, not pubmed

@98danielray

2 ай бұрын

​@@AlexanderBromleyit doesnt have to be generative to require some kind of training data..

@foppsly

2 ай бұрын

@@AlexanderBromley you mean you came to essentially the same conclusions as most "pubmed" consensus but are calling it something different therefore its not the same? cmon dude don't be so purposefully obtuse. Adjusting weight and volume based on feedback has the exact same end result as using rpe or other "science based" qualitative terminology attached to those metrics. If I say "monitor sodium intake" but you say "watch how much salt you eat" we are not talking about a world of difference in practical application. Going through these comments is making it so much harder to take you seriously.

@foppsly

2 ай бұрын

@@98danielray It's based on Evolve AI which according to their own website uses a "scientific base" of "general principles of strength training". He can try to dance around it or spin it however he wants but this is straight from the horses mouth. They even have a faq of study references on their website lmao. I honestly like bromley but he doesn't know the first thing about "ai". He's not some machine learning engineer savant. It's a cash grab on ai hype that doesn't seem to have any notable ai engineers involved so who knows how good or bad the methodology is behind it. Machine learning and Ai engineering are no joke difficult as hell to produce any serviceable level of accuracy and have me bashing my head against my keyboard. It's not something I think any random guy could just pick up in their spare time outside of academics but the guy who made evolve ai went to school for religious studies... idk make your own judgement on that but to me it's not that promising. I'd wager it's a bunch of shoddily thrown together readily available/rehashed llm garbage attached to a gui and dbms.

@AlexanderBromley

2 ай бұрын

@@foppsly holy shit, to have such strong opinions on shit you know nothing about! Lol you think its machine learning??? It's an Expert System, same patented tech as Juggernaut and Evolve (and others before them).... but the tech isn't the fucking program anymore than an Excel sheet is the program. Mike's website says that shit because it's how he describes HIS PROGRAMMING, not because it's AI. Do you think Mike T has the same app as Chad Smith? Or me? Can you feed yourself or does the social worker who conserved you do that? I'm obtuse, while you're calling vague training terms like RPE "scientific" in a desperate attempt to sound like you have sonething to contribute... Rating how hard a set is out of 10 gets claimed as a discovery if science?? You must sand your brain down before typing this stupid shit to believe that your keyboard makes you Nancy Drew.

You all misunderstand what science is. Science is about studying repeatable, measurable phenomena in order to find some broader picture about what's happening. By definition, it works with averages, and it cannot make broad assumptions riding off the results of a single freak outlier, like all great bodybuilders are. What it can do, though, is to give predictions with varying degrees of certainty. For example, say we know that bad form causes injury in 80% of test subjects, then we can extrapolate this on broader population and say "bad form causes injury with very high chance." It does not say that this particular freak of a man like Sam Sulek would certainly get injured, though.

@AlexanderBromley

2 ай бұрын

Major problem... you have to be able to measure something to find a rule and you cant measure it if you cant define it. "Bad form" is not definable anywhere. Many movements utilize momentum (all Oly lifts, plyos, kroc rows, push presses, gymnastic movements).... what's the rule with those?

@verloren844

2 ай бұрын

@@AlexanderBromley I mean, bad/good form could be a bad example here, sure, but there are other things - rep range, training to failure (a subjective metric for sure, but this is where a proper diverse sample size could help), or it could be the other way around - gather people who experienced trauma and see how they train, compare with those who experience it less, etc. I am not a researcher in this field, and it's just a layman speculation, but you certainly can measure stuff. Your stance can be interpreted as the whole science field being invalid because each person is unique and there is no sense in trying to find some general rules about stuff (as you said, try and fail and find what works for you). But such line of thinking can invalidate many things, including medicine. It is obvious that the underlying processes of our body functions share similarities and we can figure them out with enough evidence. Of course, I agree with the stance that you shouldn't hyper-optimize everything based on every published paper and bash others for not doing so, but outright denying the utility of sport science is going too far in the other direction. Sorry for the essay, but science in general is close to my heart and understanding its applications and limitations changed my view of the world at the time, so

Glad to see you're keeping the studio tidy. 😉

Appreciate the analysis, as usual. I do always take the volume down one notch for Greg Doucette though 😂

Bodybuilding is not a sport, it's a beauty pageant, in order for it to be a sport there needs to be an athletic competition! Getting oiled up and posing next to a bunch of half-naked men cannot be considered an athletic competition

@TiagoPereira81

2 ай бұрын

Finally, someone tells the obvious!!!!!

@BoeserWolf1977

2 ай бұрын

BB is an art. Sculpting your own body... And yes, competition in arts is not common for a reason...

@drmarkp1

2 ай бұрын

.. But we do it and love it don't we?

@fallingawake5706

2 ай бұрын

Strongman is 100% subjective and 100% unhealthy. It’s dumb. Thats why I watch buildyboding instead.

This channel not included, it seems like people are only mad because someone dared to not give Sam a perfect score while it seems to me dude was like "Could be better but he's gotten to this point without doing what i'm saying so whatever". I might watch the guys critiq but it's not on my immediacy list. Thanks for your insight Bromley!

That's a very engaging background you have there in your studio 😅

I'd love to see you, Mike, and Jeff do a podcast together. I like watching a lot of content for ideas/motivation, but the three of you are my favorite channels to follow for fitness & health philosophy.

Well Mitchell Hooper is quite the "Science" Guy + Athlet + genetics = Top 1

@FitFatFit

2 ай бұрын

And he is Canadian , as a cherry on top

@a-a-rondavis9438

2 ай бұрын

He's smart, but he isn't deluded or foolish. He definitely still does bro stuff and cheats reps, partials, etc. to add to the workouts, just not to the specific Strongman stuff. If he went full Jeff Nipples, he wouldn't even be a world-class Strongman.

This critique of Jeff Nippard's analysis relies on being wilfully and deliberately ignorant of the importance and relevance of pharmacogenetics to Sam Sulek's case. He is clearly a strong responder to PEDs. The purpose of criticising his training in the context of a Jeff Nippard video is to ask the question, "Can we expect his training style to also work for the average person in the gym?" and missing this point makes this attempt at a dunk really asinine. L takes all round.

@AlexanderBromley

2 ай бұрын

And every statement you made is based off a chain of assumptions you have no evidence for. You might even be right... but your confidence in some "gear to training" ratio you imagine thats responsible for Sams progress is baseless

@MayVeryWellBeep

2 ай бұрын

Nippard has a training model based on evidence, some of which may not be great quality evidence, vs bros who have a training model based entirely on anecdote, which is even weaker. How can you criticise Nippards evidence quality and then use "don't you think bodybuilding woulda just naturally selected fer it or sumthin by now folks??" as your own? What makes it OK for you to use the weakest evidence possible while critiquing guys like Nippard for not using very large sample size, strictly controlled trials? You're saying "Don't listen to him, some of his evidence isn't very strong! Listen to me instead, because I don't have any evidence at all!" Can't have weak evidence if you just don't have any evidence! That's the big brain play. As for whether the "gear to training ratio" - funnily enough there's a Jeff Nippard video about it where he talks about what the science says about how much impact gear can have and what ranges of responses have been observed, but since we don't like evidence, maybe you'd be better off pouring a big bowl of hot water and trying to scry for the information while chanting the names of your favourite injectables. It could work! I heard some absolutely huge guys are doing it.

@AlexanderBromley

2 ай бұрын

"Which is even weaker"... you are taking the most uselessly superficial heuristic that "things done in a lab trump things that arent" and trying to pass it off as intellectual. You have to be REALLY far removed from competitive culture and all the things that personalized trial and error can tell you, and then far removed from what shit done in a lab absolutely can't, to stand by that statement. If you were entrenched in this field, you would know that many people don't believe the crude tool of training can even be talked about independent of the person. Are the people you follow engaging with that? Are you? Example: the discipline of martial arts consists of the equivalent method of discovery you call "bro science" so if a 20 year old field consisting of yellow belts w PhDs, running tests on 9 white belts at a time, tried creating universal rules for strategy and dismissing lifelong Gracie JJ experts.... your argument still stands right? I made a 100 minute doc chronicles the evolution of bodybuilding training a few months ago. It covers the wide array if things that work and the insane number of variables that can't be counted, let alone measured. You'll learn more from that than you ever did from a nippard video

@MayVeryWellBeep

2 ай бұрын

Well I feel like there's not really any more for either side to say about their perspecives here. I think you're writing off poor little Jeff and his lab coat a bit too easily, personally, but so be it. I have not yet watched your documentary, but I'm sure I'll give it a go at some stage.

@danpolta8759

Ай бұрын

​The guy explicitly stated that Sam Sulek looks better than Jeff and therefore his training is better. That's not a gear to training ratio. That's just saying that using gear means you know more about training

Alex critiquing Greg critiquing Jeff critiquing Sam. I needed this

I love the field of exercise science, and I plan on continuing to get my masters starting next year, but I 100% agree that it is not for directly influencing how you train on a Tuesday. I will say in my specific coaching practice, which is for Track and Field athletes, it seems like there is more applicable research, vs. bodybuilding, which does not have the same background of state funding. Still, though, coaching is a lot more of an art than a science.

I haven’t watched Greg in years and listening to his voice for the first time in a long time is ….fucking grating.

Alexander Bromley is my favourite reaction channel

DUUUUUDE you are posting almost every day and I love it, you introduced me to powerlifting, please keep it up!!!

Great video sir, wanted to say I really enjoy your Bull Mastiff program. I'm running through it for a second time and am getting thick and strong as hell! Any advice on what I should try next? Thanks!

I would’ve assumed Bromley was above this low form of egotism. I didn’t flinch when Doucette did it. Very in line with his character. I’m also shocked by how little pushback he’s getting here. A bunch of juiced up babies projecting their insecurities. Jeff was mostly complimentary and had minor critiques and of course they took it as “Sam is only big becuz steroids” and immediately take to the KZread’s to whine. Mike Israetel made a video in which he was more critical of Sam (still positive overall) and no one responds. The disdain of the science is so silly when you look at guys who: 1. Take PEDs (science) 2. Track their macros (science) 3. Use periodization and progressive overload (science) 4. Have channels centered around improving your fitness. (Most claims rooted in some sort of… you guessed it, science) And the argument of “well we are just saying Jeff doesn’t need to mouth off about new studies that are unsubstantiated.” Everything we know today was once a new concept, that had to spread to be substantiated. Also, if that’s all there was to it, there wouldn’t be half hour video responses (or there’s be equal outrage against Dr. Mike’s video.) They clearly get super upset by any insinuation that steroids give you an advantage (which I don’t believe is the point of Jeff’s video.) All three of the guys who participated in this need an ego check

@AlexanderBromley

2 ай бұрын

Uhh, I don't recall much of this video even talking about steroids. My gripe with Jeff is that he makes strong recommendations based on shit research.... and that's his entire approach/brand. It's an overrepresentation of what we can pull from research that's getting pretty fucking cartoony. From your list of scientific contributions, you SEVERELY misunderstand the argument (I won't call it a strawman because that's fucking annoying; let's assume it was an honest mistake). I am talking specifically about the shoddy research around programming variables and training optimization in Exercise Science, not literally every scientific institution ever. I'm not a retard. PEDs are a byproduct of Biochemistry, a legit science with high standards and intense rigor. Tracking macros, sure, biology and chemistry in action, but now we're in the field of Nutrition which is an absolute academic dumpster fire. Periodization and progressive overload?? We took periodization from the Soviets, i guess it's 'scientific'... I mean, it works, but there is quite literally no conclusive evidence of how well it works compared to alternatives (Greg Nuckols actually thinks it's unnecessary for lifting).... not everyone uses it and no one uses it the same way... there isn't even a way to standardize or define "progressive overload" (ask what the 'evidence based' approach is for your next workout when you hit a plateau). The 'fitness channels' thing was a stretch... you just wanted a 4th point. Fitness has been notorious for gimmicky bullshit being propped up by shit studies for 50 years... 'scientific fitness approaches' is what you see on Oprah and the cover of Women's World, when people want a shortcut to spend money on. There is no 'scientific' approach to general fitness training that beats watching your portions, moving around, and exerting yourself. If Ex Sci was interested in general health, we'd be done already. "Everything was once a new concept...." Indeed.... how the fuck does that justify using unsubstantiated studies. I would expect such a strong reaction to be propped up by something more than this mish-mash of half-baked points.

@kadehunter2168

2 ай бұрын

“Fitness channels” being a misnomer is not a counter. It’s a distraction from the argument. You guys are all in a very similar niche of KZread, and all of the videos about “how to improve x” and “how to become y” can only be substantiated through evidence. The only palatable form of evidence has to be from the literature, otherwise I can show you a laundry list of anecdotes about the novelty of HIT training, intermittent fasting, and KETO. I brought steroids up because it was the only logical reason I could fathom that would have triggered such impassioned responses from three professionals that have there own shit going on. To your credit, I’m a fan of the channel, and yours was by far the most professional response of the three. But WHY are there three response videos to this modest critique, that was done in the most respectful way? Emotions. Why would there be such an emotional response to “this 21 year old is training well, but not optimally?” That’s where my assumption that it was just butt hurt stems from. As the evidence goes. I haven’t personally watched enough Jeff Nippard to know how much of his data is unsubstantiated. I do know, you specifically went in on full ROM and stretch under tension. The biggest proponent of this I’ve seen is definitely Dr. Mike. So my follow up questions, why is Jeff catching the brunt of all of this? You called Mike a titan in one of your previous videos and Jeff is just a nerd who doesn’t fact check his research? I really liked your video about what’s wrong with the evidence, but, second to personal experience, it’s the best that we have to operate off of. The first guy’s response that you two are echoing was clearly just a petty hit piece. When your best argument is “he’s bigger than you” that’s a half-baked argument. I guess the passion of my last response wasn’t so much directed at you, but that is who you associated with when you clipped their videos and sided with them.

@kadehunter2168

2 ай бұрын

I will say I haven’t seen him make many “strong recommendations” as you said. He generally states what the literature suggests, and qualifies it with “do what works best for you”

@AlexanderBromley

2 ай бұрын

That second post is funny because that's a huge part of the gripe... if "do what works for you" is the conclusion, then the evidence isn't worth talking about in the first place. It cant be both 'the best we have' and completely inconsequential compared to trial and error. The evidence is not the best we have, the evidence sucks. This field is not good. Professionals have demonstrably worse test scores, statistical literacy and, in all likelihhod, IQs than other fields. It's underfunded, which isn't changing because people getting swole is fucking frivolous. Saying evidence has to come from literature is a knee jerk statement that assumes all literature is created equal.. it really isnt. Maybe it gets better (not likely) but the eagerness to bite into an uncooked omelet is leaving egg on everyone's face. Case in point... keto and intermittent fasting you mentioned as unscientific anecdotal voodoo... but they were actually both sensations caused by unchecked recommendations from an incomplete field of study... those weren't problems created by broscience. So for the 10000th time, you can't use research to directly inform training decisions (not me, those are Ex Sci PhDs repeating that). Jeff uses research to directly inform training decisions. Sometimes badly. He's a nice Canadian but his branding is to feign science-iness and it's mostly a bullshit distraction that zero people are better for

@BuJammy

2 ай бұрын

Progressive overload is a result of observation and inference, so in that sense it's "science", but lifters were doing it long before any scientific observation of it. People figured out that you have to lift heavier to get stronger quite early. Honestly, you could make a similar observation around PEDs.

Reaction Turducken! Genius 😂

Follow principles not methods is the best advice from this video.

I don't think those types of videos are necessarily Jeff giving recommendations. I think it's just him providing what he found so his audience can make their own educated decisions

I just can’t take Greg’s muppet voice for more than 5 seconds.

@bmstylee

2 ай бұрын

You can make it that long? You got me beat on that one.

@marqc.9904

2 ай бұрын

Yeah, I wish Bromley would just read us what Greg says instead of playing it. Or hire Morgan Freeman or something.

Imo lifting is simple. Its okay to try some things that are science based if it feels good, but 90% of your lifting should be the basics. My biceps and triceps work is pretty nerdy isolating long head and shorthead/ long head and lateral head, but my chest back, legs and shoulders are as basic as it gets. As an example my chest day is DB flat press, incline DB press and cable fly. My chest grows like a pot plant on miracle grow.

Love all the Halloween decorations filling up the room. It always Halloweening

Methods are many, principles are few- great quote

Sam Sulek has the ethos. Nipster has the logos. Bromley has the pathos, but he’s also the composition teacher

Milo should be massive by now

@BaldOmniMan

2 ай бұрын

FWIW, Milo is 6 ft 2 and 220-230 lol he’s a pretty jacked dude, I’ve met him in person.

@leonardo9259

2 ай бұрын

​@@BaldOmniManrare Bobby biceps spotting

@nooblifter390

2 ай бұрын

​@BaldOmniMan NH looks bigger than him tho.

@anonymousalias.5059

2 ай бұрын

I think its his arms, apart from that he looks pretty big

@foppsly

2 ай бұрын

Milo is huge are you insane? I mean he's literally the opposite of a pencil neck and he towers over most people in photos while still looking full-framed.

I love the spare room/office/storage background.

greg actually crushes it on his response

We want more RANTS! I agree that the research and effort is done on these topics as they understand the marketing piece of things. Makes things interesting in terms what is actually important in training vs what is science based and positioned to get more attention on social media.

3:25 I don't follow fads so I don't know anything about Jeff or Sam but I can say that I'm not a fan of this guy's range of motion

You call it lazy content but its one of the best ways to get a full understanding. I mean one side to to present their full uninterrupted perspective then the other side gets to address every point they want to counter in full and uninterrupted. And this can go back and forth allowing for better clarification and nuance every iteration. Honestly its near perfect content

Swede Burns reference was funny. I liked your honest evaluations of training systems. The flames and such lol

Well the nba didn't center around 3 pointers for 65 damn years, it wasn't until 2016-17 that every team started shooting a ton of 3's. Is it really that much of a stretch to say bodybuilding, which is far more complex than basketball, isn't 100% figured out already?

@TheTinyTimmyTimTim

3 күн бұрын

Well no, teams started jacking up 3s as early as 2008 after the MIT sloan sports conference and adoption of advanced analytics.

a 30 minute video about a 20 minute video you sure showed him

@AlexanderBromley

2 ай бұрын

I can spend 3 hours on a single tik tok if its stupid enough

You’re my favorite fitness KZreadr. You keep it real and your voice and demeanor is not annoying nor condescending. You also make good points. keep it up man.

Been following for a while always rocking your brick by brick Tee at the gym 💪🏽

Whether or not Jeff Nippard is justified in critiquing Sam, saying "Sam's physique is better" is equally stupid. Jeff is a natural. Sam is on the the whole damn pharmacy.

@wolfiechin4272

2 ай бұрын

Did you watch the video? He addressed this point

@jeremiahhempel1975

2 ай бұрын

@@Starca11er yep

@leonardo9259

2 ай бұрын

​@@Starca11eryes

@leonardo9259

2 ай бұрын

​@wolfiechin4272 im pretty sure he's talking about the dude in B/W video

@jeremiahhempel1975

2 ай бұрын

@@leonardo9259 I am

Recearch to me is a good way to make changes because although it might not work, there is a higher probability that it will work because there is at least some empirical evidence for it.

@AlexanderBromley

2 ай бұрын

Nothing works unless the foundation of your training is solid (which is not for most people) and those principles have been the same for 150 years. If you're making tweaks based on individual research papers rather than your own experience, you A.) are misusing research and B.) guaranteed, 1000% neglecting those important principles

@masaeffy

2 ай бұрын

Yeah tf is wrong with all these science weirdos... Full rom, control the negative, progressive overload , intensity, work hard.. what more principles do people need?

@taylorhillard4868

2 ай бұрын

@@masaeffy are you being sarcastic? Lol. All the things you mentioned are what the science people say. The people who chide the science based lifters are the ones not controlling the negative, doing partial rom (and only in the easiest part of the lift), and "progressively overloading" by just increasing the weight until they're doing every cheap trick and horrendous technique just to move the weight they aren't ready for (see; ego lifting and crossfit pull-ups)

@jirieskelinen5607

2 ай бұрын

@@AlexanderBromley I totally agree on your point about the foundation needing to be sound, however I don't see why personal experience and data from scientific research has to be diametrically opposed. If a current thing is working, I don't see it to be necessary to change that for a unknown maybe. However if you for example hit a platou and your fundamentals are reasonably good, I don't see why changing your training and starting by looking at studies is a bad thing.

@streetdogg8206

2 ай бұрын

@@AlexanderBromley The idea that people, who try to optimize details with results from studies, neglect the basic training principles sounds completely made up. This seems like a bias just willing its own confirmation into existence, probably based on an anecdote or two.

"Science is bad because the top guys don't science" is one hell of an (bad) argument.

@AlexanderBromley

2 ай бұрын

Weird, I thought the whole purpose of science was to gain predictive power over the mechanations of the world.... the fact that EX Sci has none to give, so much so that the highest stakes competitions (like, the literal only use case for an academic institution dedicated to studying extreme hypertrophy) dont even bother with it. Seems a pretty fucking compelling case to me

@Micheldied

2 ай бұрын

@@AlexanderBromley sports science is in its infancy, not in terms of age, but in terms of depth. The fact that it cannot be used predictively at the highest level in strength sports doesn't mean "science bad". Science changes our understanding of things the time, and with time becomes more certain. When medicinal science first began, it was in a pretty horrible state for a considerable amount of time, with some nutcase practices going on for hundreds of years. But can you imagine if a bunch of bros decided, "nah, fuck medicine, man. Our ancestors survived enough to produce us so clearly we don't need medicine." and all medicinal science just halted?