Have you ever considered force vectors when analysing archery technique? This is the same principle we use for alignment and technique structure, however, it's important not only for the static positional analysis, but also in analysing the dynamic forces and the correct reaction during shot execution! More here: archerymasterclass.com/p/technique-fundamentals-for-recurve-archery

@cowaynecomarcho3883

2 жыл бұрын

I am looking into it.

@abhishekshandilya3596

Жыл бұрын

Thanks brother 😊

@ThirdLawPair

Жыл бұрын

You were actually doing Newton's Second Law, not the Third.

@RogueArcheryTV

Жыл бұрын

@@ThirdLawPair F = m*a ?

It should always just be a natural reaction, no exaggeration or slight exaggeration of anything. Exaggerating a specific motion after the shot does not have any affect on the path of the arrow. If you exaggerate after the shot you can tend to create a habit of detrimental biases before the shot goes off.

That was awesome 👌 great little video mate

Looking forward to this video!

Great video! Love the use of physics. Makes a lot of sense! :D

Thanks for the information

Thanks for the information!!!

@RogueArcheryTV

Жыл бұрын

What did you learn?

Makes sense ;) Good explanation!

Glad I'm instinctively doing this right. It's not concious it's just the result of me pushing towards the target

Great way to overcomplicate an issue, so essentially just do what comes naturally, which is the basis for all good archery technique.

@davisbeauvais6965

2 жыл бұрын

This is how you prove that it comes naturally

@RogueArcheryTV

2 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't say that good archery technique comes naturally. Infact, it's quite complex. Especially when it comes to high level performance, these finer details become limiting factors and can impose performance caps if not correctly applied.

Perfect 👌

Totally agree that it is acceptable. Though being a compound archer I have always thought of it as a rotational force. Though most compound archers dont acheive the same alignment as a good recurve archer

@RogueArcheryTV

2 жыл бұрын

Good point Darren 👍 Technically there is a rotational force (torque) around the bow shoulder as a pivot point, as pointed out by @Handy in the comment section. Good shoulder alignment means that the angle between the line of forces is more acute, leading to less torque, and less strain on the shoulder extensors. Also, at full draw compound archers have significant let-off, whilst recurve archers hold full draw weight. This means that a compounder might be able to get away with poor shoulder alignment, but for a recurver it's pretty essential!

My understanding is that slight break is what people are talking about then they say about the bow going straight and the more unnatural obvious break being the break-away movement

@RogueArcheryTV

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting point. That would be a terminology thing, and my experience is that there is a lot of confusion and misunderstanding around this topic. In any case, I hope this video helps explain the concept.

@spaghettibadger647

2 жыл бұрын

@@RogueArcheryTV Yeah, it's cleared it in my mind; i often need to see the difference to understand something

i just started archery i speak very little english But I understand your actions Thanku brother

@RogueArcheryTV

Жыл бұрын

Welcome to a fantastic sport!

It does make sense, i love physics 🤩🤩

How to tell will be helpful

What you are describing is a form of katra. Those of us that use horse bows, or bows without arrow rests practice different katra depending on how we orient the arrow when nocking it. What you have described is incorrect katra for bows that have arrow rests over your fingers. Having the bow move outward upon release is desirable if you have arrows that rest over your thumb, thus allowing the bow to get out of the way of the tail of the arrow. What you are describing is most certainly going to cause the bow to push into the tail of the arrow and negatively affect flight consistency.

@RogueArcheryTV

2 жыл бұрын

I'm not an expert at traditional archery, but I had a read up on khatra and it's very interesting. I can tell you that with a modern recurve bow, the arrow is long gone before any interference from the follow-through movement. We can observe this with high frame rate video analysis. This is like the follow through of a golf swing, the ball is only in contact with the head of the club for an instant!

@scotmcpherson

2 жыл бұрын

@@RogueArcheryTV I am not sure why you think modern recurves are faster than traditional recurves. They both shoot arrows at similar feet per second for similar draw weight and draw length. I can assure you and it can be demonstrated that khatra has an effect beyond "follow thru". Proper katra occurs as a result of how the bow is held and the tension of the muscles holding it. It is not a deliberate action that must be timed with the release of the arrow, but happens just as much as a reaction of releasing the string as is the arrow itself propelling forward. When you see someone demonstrating khatra, it is usually an exaggeration of what's occurring rather than an accurate depiction of what unfolds. The principle difference between traditional and modern recurves is almost exclusively within the realm of what is known as archers paradox. Modern recurves and compound bows are less affected by it because the risers are designed to minimize or eliminate the bow being in the way of the arrow travelling through the center of the bow. With traditional bows, the rear or tail of the arrow can sometimes still come in contact with the riser of the bow even when the arrow is tuned precisely. Khatra moves the bow out of the way just the sliver fraction of distance that makes the difference between contact and no contact (that distance can be any infinitesimal distance between touching and not touching). If the khatra is not there, it can make quite a noise when the tail slaps the bow (or hurts if its your hand that gets slapped) and the arrow gets flung off course. In the case of the modern bow, regardless of whether it's center shot or not, the arrow will still show some paradox because the arrow is being compressed by the string upon release. A khatra that moves the bow toward the arrow (as in your explained case), could indeed cause the tail of the arrow to touch the riser. With your golf follow through example, whether the ball is in contact with the club for a few moments, you cannot deny that the "follow thru" principle has an affect on swing performance and ball trajectory. If it wasn't important and had no effect on a golfers swing, then it wouldn't be taught. Khatra happens whether you intend it or not, its whether you setup for the proper khatra or not that matters. The same way as whether you setup to follow through properly when driving the ball off the tee affects the attitude and action of the club head as it comes in contact with the golf ball.

@RogueArcheryTV

2 жыл бұрын

@@scotmcpherson wow, thanks for your detailed response! I think however that you may have misinterpreted the purpose of this video, as you seem to be agreeing with the key point that I'm trying to make, and I wouldn't disagree with anything you've stated here. I'd encourage you to watch the video again 👍

it's exactly what I need to figure out. Sometimes my bow hand stays still and other times it breaks away outward. Idk what's going on

@RogueArcheryTV

2 жыл бұрын

It'll be related to the balance of force in your bow side shoulder. There are many things that could affect this from your set-up position, draw sequence, front shoulder set position, shoulder alignment consistency and directional expansion. Happy to help if I can.

Yup.. for me it is acceptable to a small degree as long as its a natural body movement (reaction) to the torsional force coming from the body as the release is being done.. as we can see at the point of release its still straight or fwd direction.. and the breakaway movement is in a small degree due to the follow through & direction.. that's how I see it.. 😁😁😁

I consistently break to the right, or forward and then to the right. How can I tell if this is affecting my shooting?

@RogueArcheryTV

2 жыл бұрын

Assuming you're a right handed archer, this is almost certainly letting you down in your scores. It's pretty common to collapse inwards and it's a sign of weakness in the shoulder alignment as you execute the shot. One way to see how it's affecting you is to score and plot your arrows so that you can see the trend in groupings. If you have lots of shots landing to the low right of the yellow, then this may be the culprit! P.s. I'm happy to send you an arrow plotting sheet if you email me jarryd@roguearchery.com.au

Great video! Not to sound all geeky but the way you drew your force vectors follows the method for two dimensional movement along the X axis which includes the force of gravity, Fn=mg. Not really applicable in this situation. Your analysis is good but the physics involved would include a Torque equation with the pivot point being the front bow shoulder. Your force vectors would make more sense, physics wise, if torque were taken into account along with the draw force and the opposing force which would be the Force Normal or Fn. Cheers :)

@RogueArcheryTV

2 жыл бұрын

I love the geek-out! You're correct, I should've said "in the third dimension", not "in three dimensions". This is actually a short clip from a longer analysis of the follow-through from multiple angles, so contextually it's a little out of place, but I think you get the point! There were actually a few other things I misspoke on so please don't watch the video again 😂

@HandyL

2 жыл бұрын

@@RogueArcheryTV LOL!

I'm self-taught and breaking away was a natural reaction for me, but I have noticed my bow arm also drops slightly as well. Is that normal?

@RogueArcheryTV

2 жыл бұрын

Good question. Generally, collapsing or dropping the bow arm is an indication of poor stability of the front shoulder at the moment of release. This is very common. I have a video on setting the front bow shoulder here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/gJ5oudmknqyfpKQ.html Notwithstanding this, a 'slight' dropping of the bow arm can be observed even in top archers. This can be acceptable provided that it is observed as the mass weight of the bow drops into the finger sling, and not before. Slight is the key word here, and it shouldn't be more than 1-2" max. This is not to be interpreted as "Dropping your bow arm is OK"! Is this helpful?

@incorporeal3793

2 жыл бұрын

@@RogueArcheryTV, yes, it did. Watched a form check of mine and I'm dropping two to three inches. Having watched your video I think I'm not applying enough pre-tension on the string and I'm missing pushing the bow arm shoulder down before raising the bow. Thanks.

@HamishGarland

Жыл бұрын

Just as the forces aren't aligned when observing from above, when you observe from the side the force through the arm isn't quite aligned with the force between the pressure point and the hook. Your hook is higher than your shoulder, hence there is a secondary component of force from your shoulder pushing down. There is also an upwards force counteracting the mass of the bow. Directly after the release these forces become slightly unbalanced, resulting in a small drop of the bow.

When you rotate your core , you shoulder bow arm goes like inside but the arm stand still , so the arm goes the opposite direction 1:25 and that opposite direction is when it hurts my shoulder. Why? May i be opening too much?

@RogueArcheryTV

Жыл бұрын

I can't provide specific coaching feedback in the comments as I can't see what you're doing. If you can post a video I can try to help with this.

@peeleandro

Жыл бұрын

@@RogueArcheryTV i started with a 30lbs bow , do you recommend to me to train in a elastic band before training in the real bow?

@RogueArcheryTV

Жыл бұрын

@@peeleandro good question, and yes... absolutely! That might explain it. I recommend following the instructions in the Position Training video.

@peeleandro

Жыл бұрын

@@RogueArcheryTV thank you for the tip , but i choose the Jake Kaminski's playlist to start. Is there a problem if i follow him?

@RogueArcheryTV

Жыл бұрын

@@peeleandro ofcourse not! Haha no problem at all @jakekaminski has a lot of amazing content and I'd recommend you do follow him.

I do not follow through. The bow stays mostly in the same position except when I do asiatic style archery, it moves slightly due to torque from khatra. The reason is I do not want to waste time on follow through when I can reload arrow after that.

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