I have watched a fair number of Grenadier reviews by this point. Your experience, objectivity, and honesty are a refreshing change -- Thank you Harry !

@harrysfarmvids

11 ай бұрын

Thanks. Whenever I review a car my first question is would I buy one, or recommend one to a friend. Hence my confusion on the Grenadier!

@DavesIneosGrenadier

11 ай бұрын

@@harrysfarmvids So the fact you are a consultant to Jaguar Landrover plays no part in your reviews?

@richardharrold9736

11 ай бұрын

​@@DavesIneosGrenadier he isn't... he left that job years ago. He's also been really rather critical of the New Defender.

@Millie-md4jk

11 ай бұрын

@@DavesIneosGrenadier nah, obvs no bias whatsoever…

@Millie-md4jk

11 ай бұрын

@@richardharrold9736 don’t be ridiculous … every video scans like a JLR advert (fair to be that way because as a RR owner they are lovely) but be less obvious

A few viewers have pointed me here, so if I can offer a couple of clarifications. I also found the cross-axle lockers slow to disengage - INEOS tell me that they actually disengage quickly, but the indicator light only goes out when there is a speed difference on left and right wheels. Hence you need to turn to get the light to go off. This is far from ideal, but not impossible to live with. Also, I would not recommend driving across your field with the cross-axle lockers engaged even when muddy. The reason is that you'll get huge understeer and therefore drag, which will increase the chances of a bogging. Instead, I'd suggest simply relying on the Grenadier's brake traction control which does an effective job in such conditions, and does not impede turning ability.

The “Charger for some reason” under the back seat is actually a dual battery management system. It will protect your starting battery if running a fridge etc while camping. Quite good to be a factory option.

@No-thing-ness

11 ай бұрын

Yep and it’s accessible. It’s a smart idea along with the pre wiring

@whiterabbit5600

11 ай бұрын

This world used to be a place to learn to suffer, but that has to change. Make this world heaven!

@No-thing-ness

11 ай бұрын

@@whiterabbit5600 true that

@procatprocat9647

11 ай бұрын

Seems like a waste of space and seat compromise for most owners who don't run a fridge etc. Should be an option. As you can't fold the seats flat, you can't camp in it anyway !! Fridges also have voltage cutoffs, and anyone serious about camping would fot a lithium leisure battery because lead acid and agm aren't suitable for continuous low current discharge. It kills them

@tpower1912

11 ай бұрын

@@whiterabbit5600 U wot

Watching the steering portions of the video reminded me of my Series 3, which I am very much used to, but it's 50 years old! And doesn't cost nearly as much!

@dancarter482

11 ай бұрын

EXACTLY - it doesn't do anything a slightly modfied 110 couldn't do but it wouldn't stack up just on price. If I wound the asking price of one of these ugly boxes into a classic rangey/ 110 or 'Cruiser - they'd be FAR superior.

70 grand....the reality is that there isn't going to be much crossover between the people who want this kind of car and the people who can afford this kind of car.

@mrqualityreviewer4752

11 ай бұрын

Agreed only rich areas will have this in the US

@simono4991

11 ай бұрын

I thought exactly the same, although I have heard the case made that commercial buyers will view this as having a longer service life and therefore be cost-effective in the long term. But making a Defender look reasonably priced is quite a trick to pull!

@idanceforpennies281

11 ай бұрын

Well, I take a step back and ask who exactly would *Want* a car like this? As a farm vehicle, its too expensive, and as a luxury 4x4 it fails there too. I don't know what's going on, but either way its bloody expensive for what it is.

@PenryMMJ

11 ай бұрын

I completely agree, but the reality of manufacture in 2023 is that you simply can't make a utility vehicle at the price most of it's potential customers can afford

@nnoddy8161

11 ай бұрын

The commercial is 50 grand.

I was driving a Mitsubishi around Oman a couple of months ago and I didn't see many Land Rovers, I asked why there were so few Defenders and Discoverys in that part of Arabia and answer was quite simple, RELIABILITY! If you are driving in the Arabian Desert everyday you can't risk suffering an unfixable electrical problem.

@captainwin6333

11 ай бұрын

Yup, no reason not to go Japanese in places like that or the Australian outback or the Continent of Africa. These places demand reliability.

@nothingtoseaheardammit

11 ай бұрын

Thats not quite fair. 90% of all Land Rovers ever built are still on the road today. The other 10% made it home :P (Sorry, I had to)

@mikeamizzle

11 ай бұрын

Glad I don’t live in the desert 😂

@weaton25

11 ай бұрын

@@nothingtoseaheardammit The thing about that is you can buy all of the parts from the chassis up to make a new one so its simple to keep them going apart from a Willys Jeep there are not many cars/trucks that you can do that with.

@Phuc_Yhou

11 ай бұрын

Notice there wasn't many BMWs being driven in the desert either?

I simply loved your review! You were straight forward, candid, and honest. It's difficult to find car reviewers who aren't simply promoting manufacturers. I just subscribed.

Harry you have saved me 60k I was going to get one to replace our discovery 4

@Harry._.Thompson

11 ай бұрын

get a defender basically an amazing disco

@andrewcarter1966

11 ай бұрын

Wouldn't touch one to replace a D4. I would get bored of that engine, 22mpg, woolly steering, only 5 seats, live axles/springs, no footwell space VERY quickly. The car it's trying to emulate was obsolete 40yrs ago. I know what I would prefer drive to Scotland or France in!

Definitely a niche vehicle, I definitely appreciate its simplicity and the notion that I won't need a doctorate of electrical engineering to keep the thing going for 20 years. I can't say the same about the new Landies. Don't get me wrong I quite like the new defender. But I do appreciate the simplicity of this car, and the accesorizing is quite appealing. I will definitely concede by the looks of it, it won't be great on road. Edit: From a Canadians perspective btw this is very exciting since the original defender was never sold in Canada. And to basically be able to buy a "defender" here is a neat notion.

@PazLeBon

9 ай бұрын

This literally woul dbe great at 35k

@martinS-vn3wy

8 ай бұрын

yes agree it's expensive for such a basic car with old tech@@PazLeBon

Towed a NATO Sankey ex-army trailer (around 1 tonne) with my Discovery 3 from Swindon to Bangor (Wales) and got 27mpg. Without towing, I got 32mpg. This seems way to expensive for what it is imo. We've had our D3 for 13 years now (well maintained). It's often off road on the farm and just works. One thing we like is when the rear seats fold, the load space is completely flat. Useful when transporting water troughs (and fridges) etc.

@npet6842

11 ай бұрын

I'm at 16 years with my Disco 3. Can't bare to get rid of it . Many other vehicles in the stable come and go , but this is my love . Yes , parts wear out , but it's concept was near perfect and style unique . Don't like the spare wheel carrier design whatsoever though . Replacement for this will be LandCruiser 300 ....... yes I'm in Oz ;-)

@v4skunk739

11 ай бұрын

You make no sense. Go compare your D3 to a new Defender.

@idanceforpennies281

11 ай бұрын

That's astonishing fuel economy. I thought they were gas guzzling tragics, but I was completely wrong.

@thehighwaychild

11 ай бұрын

Same here. D3 does it all. I even prefer it to the D4.

@KangoV

11 ай бұрын

@@idanceforpennies281 Every couple of years I clean the sensors like MAP etc. Keeps the economy good. Oil changes are a must. I do mine annually with an Ester based synthetic.

Awesome as always.Thanks for sharing and taking us along

I truly wish Grenadier all the best in making this a long-term success. The world deserves a car like this now that the Defender has become what it is - hopefully there is enough market for it.

@alexsystems2001

11 ай бұрын

I’d buy it if it started at about $58,000 add the lockers and a tow package and it came in right at about $63,000 USD I’d be a buyer all day long but an entry point of $70,000 without the tow package and lockers is nuts.

@eprc7585

11 ай бұрын

I'd personally hoped that the world deserved better then a 70k "work horse" pumping out 19mpg. Luckily it does and we've had the Hilux for years costing half the price and performing far better in the intended role

@danielw5850

11 ай бұрын

I cannot drive past a 2023 Defender without thinking (unlike its predecessor): are you a Hairdresser, a "Surrey Mummy", a Metrosexual... If Grenadier get this right (never mind the French factory), the farming, Equine and authentic community will follow.

@JC-xw7ml

11 ай бұрын

@@danielw5850 I’ve got one, and I’m a builder, use it as a van, seat covers, no high end leather/carpets etc . all tools and crap just fit in back, and sometimes 400kilos or more of bags of cement etc, you hardly notice the weight. Then at wk ends it’s near Range Rover levels for comfort for journeys. There’s nothing out there like it. (And never had problem with it in 3 years)

@PazLeBon

9 ай бұрын

we dont need old tech on new cars do we?. i think any of us could kinda do that tho. its esentiually a budget option to those landrovers etc but priced close tho their ranges

I went back and watched the Defender video to see how it handled it. The first thing i noticed is that @Harry'sfarmvideo stopped and picked a terrain response option and then set up the hill. He chose mud and ruts that lock the center and rear diffs. Most people would have chosen grass, gravel and snow because you are on grass. I found that interesting because to me he knew that you need the diffs to be locked right away to make the hill. Then he proceeded to go up the hill. The Grenadier locking front and rear diffs require to he low range. He has indicated the diff did not work which means he was in the high range attempting the hill with open diff. How is that a fair comparison. Also it shows the Grenadier was able to climb the hill in high range. Full discloure, I own the new defender and have a deposit to purchase the Grenadier.

@paul_k_7351

11 ай бұрын

Great spot and a good point!

@jamesmeadows

11 ай бұрын

You don't need to be in low range to select terrain response modes in the new defender. The only one that needs low range is rock crawl, all the others work in high and low range. Nor will it lock the diffs permanently in mud and ruts. It will optimise the traction control and diff locking strategy for the terrain though, so will be constantly adjusting the amount of locking torque across the diffs.

@seany8787

11 ай бұрын

Suggest you get to a Land Rover Experience centre who will tell you all about your Defender, as the other poster has said you dont need to be in low range for Mud n Ruts. Mud and Ruts allows for more wheel slip than grass gravel snow, because it has a catherine wheel effect of flinging mud off the tyre tread. GGS has relatively strong traction control effect once the initial dampened throttle in that mode is overcome

@peopleschamp7258

11 ай бұрын

@jamesmeadows you are correct, my bad. I tend use mud and ruts and rock crawl in low range. Even the LR manual says use mud in low range. I made assumption that you needed to be in low. You know what they say about assuming.

@peopleschamp7258

11 ай бұрын

@seany8787 you are correct, I don't need to be in low range. I just use low range for mud and ruts. I assumed and was proven wrong. You do have a great point that you need a class to best understand the terrain systems. You just can't lock and unlock the diffs when needed. They are always on. Makes you think about Rohny Dahl defender review where he couldn't figure it out.

This review is as I feared, we had been thinking of this one for the town/country car and the crew cab Quartermaster for the estate work as that will live offroad most of the time. We are going with the Defender for town and country and we'll run the Quartermaster for a few years to see how it stands up to working for a living. Good review and opened our eyes to a few areas we had thought they had covered, so opened our eyes to a few issues we could not live with.

Thanks for taking the Time Harry !! Now we know what its got or Not as the case maybe

The project is admirable but the startup costs are eye watering. I was expecting a better first attempt. I hope they survive long enough to become a success.

@mariemccann5895

11 ай бұрын

Are you for real?

@andrewpreston4127

11 ай бұрын

One for the Arabs, other oligarchs like Radcliffe , etc.

@kevanwillis4571

11 ай бұрын

​@@andrewpreston4127Have you seen the price of cars recently?

@andrewnorris5415

11 ай бұрын

Ultra rich backer can waste cash as he wishes I guess.

@interdec

11 ай бұрын

Well said Paul M. An intelligent non destructive comment. The rest of you should be ashamed of yourselves…attempting to bring down an honest attempt to create something great before it’s had a chance. Dangle your sorry heads in shame!

Feels like it has potential but needs a version 2 to address some glaring issues, especially the weight. It's half a tonne too heavy

@NashvilleUK

11 ай бұрын

I imagine it would be if it was a normal monocoque like the New Defender but then it would lose its raison d’etre

@timevans8223

11 ай бұрын

My short wheel base original Defender was 2 tonne on a heavier replacement galvanised chassis. It had no frills. Great bit of kit except crap axles that broke half shaft and differentials off road when pushed hard. Gearboxes were a weak point and transfer boxes as well. If all of those issues could have been beefed up, you would have had the perfect utility vehicle. That's the direction the Grenadier should have taken not this overweight hippo that is neither one thing or another. Think back to how great the Hilux was for reliability.

@idanceforpennies281

11 ай бұрын

Well, you've hit the intractable problem area. Its a steel frame chassis with a steel body car. If you were to try and make it lighter, you basically need a completely new car. You can't "modify" weight out of a basic design.

@marshallh9

11 ай бұрын

Wait until they bring out the electric version!

@richardharrold9736

11 ай бұрын

​@@marshallh9 that'll be an easy 3500kg with no payload...

At 45 -50k us these would sell like hot cakes but at 79k us it’s ridiculous.

@Lookup2Wakeup

11 ай бұрын

It's just for the very rich......

@DavidBrown-bs7gg

11 ай бұрын

Agreed

@rkan2

11 ай бұрын

In Finland you can double the price because of it's emissions... Must not be the only contry either lol

@ronaldwestra8735

11 ай бұрын

79K US is cheap. For such a car.

@Lookup2Wakeup

11 ай бұрын

@@rkan2 It's already a dinosaur & by 2030 it will be extinct......😁

Saw one yesterday-up close-very impressed.

Love the external mounting points and sockets. I'd weld up all sorts of brackets to mount my projects and experiments to the vehicle

They had an opportunity to fix what was always wrong with the 110. And left all the bad Parts and added a few.

It's a shame it has to come down to the inevitable mud slinging (pun intended). Harry has unwittingly fanned the flames between the various camps by doing a direct 'buy this not that' comparison rather than a straight up pro's / con's review on the Grenadier. It may have been a bit clumsy but the criticism he's then had in the comments has understandably made him take an even more entrenched position, no one winning so far.... If we step back - A huge well done is due to the Ineos team (and their families) who have no doubt been giving blood sweat and tears in recent months to get it over the line, how any new entrant can bring a new car to market today is unbelievable. Well done to Land Rover for successfully pulling off mass market appeal, refinement and capability in the new Defender. The Grenadier was never going to come close on refinement, if it had then Land Rover would have somewhat squandered their 75 year head start... Unfortunately LR had to leave some old Defender lovers behind, but Ineos have been able to bring this group some alternative which should hopefully become even more accessible over time as the Grenadiers trickle into the second hand market. If Ineos succeed, we all win - more choice, more competition, more variety on the roads, maybe other aspiring manufacturers are given the confidence to start new firms and bring us yet more options. I hope the new Grenadier owners are enjoying their cars and credit to them for taking the early adopter risks which bring us something new. I can't wait to see the builds they come up with as the Grenadier starts to get modified for camping, overlanding, rock crawling etc... If Ineos can get a few thousand of these out on the roads in the next year, it will be a lot more interesting for us all than another few thousand Toyotas, Land Rovers or whatever... I hope we don't have to endure too many "Old Defender vs New Defender Vs Grenadier vs G Wagon vs Jimny vs Unimog vs Iveco vs Troopy" tug of war in a muddy field comparison videos and the influencers in the industry can use their imagination to help build the marques and their enthusiasts up for the benefit of us all. edit - on reflection that tug of war video does sound quite good...

@Millie-md4jk

11 ай бұрын

Well said - far more balanced a view than mr M sadly

@PazLeBon

9 ай бұрын

its either in competion with these other marks in this niche and a direct compariosn is valid or it has to be at a tottaly different price point, i.e sub 50k

@Millie-md4jk

9 ай бұрын

@@PazLeBon so which product is a direct direct comparison pls

would love to see some more farm equipment reviews mixed in

@SingaporeSling1

11 ай бұрын

Yeah what's the best plough to pull these days?

@PazLeBon

9 ай бұрын

@@SingaporeSling1 prob have to sell a lambo to afford one mind

Thanks for the review. Very enlightening compared to others I have seen and read. I reserved a Grenadier on day one but cancelled it due to lack of information whenever I asked a question. I’ll wait until the MK2 is brought out (if there ever will be one?) and re evaluate my choice..

Interesting review, always comparing it to the new defender is ok for the UK however in Oz there are very few defenders/discovery/range rovers used in the true outback. Having mechanical diff locks etc is a plus out here. Less electrical problems. But thanks for pointing out the issues I would have being 6 ft 4” tall. The annoying B pillar and that hump for the left foot. I had that in my Pajero Sport and on long trips my left leg would cramp up really badly.

@joeconnolly89

11 ай бұрын

yes very biased clearly he has been paid off by land rover

@ClipsByMiles

10 ай бұрын

Agreed. I think the biggest thing missed in the review is that hardly anyone who's buying this is going to run it as a standard vehicle - it's going to get converted into a proper 4WD or overlander by most owners. It's built to be customised, and the small number of compromises present are almost certainly worth it for most. I know I certainly don't want smart electronics to "just let me drive" over everything - I want to choose what the car is doing. It's using Harrop-Eaton eLockers for the diff locks, which is exactly what I would put on it if it only had soft-roader "smart" electronics.

@PazLeBon

9 ай бұрын

@@ClipsByMiles so its over priced.

@BlesamaSoul

9 ай бұрын

Be interesting to see how the new Toyota Land Cruiser (think you call them a Troopies) stacks up v the Grenadier under Oz conditions as you chaps have some v harsh conditions to deal with.

@MrSwaggie1

9 ай бұрын

@@BlesamaSoul In Australia the 70 Series is the bulletproof, manual only V8 4wd commonly bought by mining and outback pastoral activities. Although a lot of people buy the 4 door version for touring and towing duties. I would think if you wanted to compete with the Landcruiser , the 300 series would be the better vehicle to compare with. Both are way too expensive in Australia at about $100k for a reasonable version. Way out of my league unless I win Lotto.

So, an interesting and honest review. We'll stick to our wonderful Isuzu D'max up here in the Northern Highlands. Sadly the Grenadier is far too expensive and for a working commercial vehicle they've made it far to "Posh". Inside! I can almost buy two D'maxs for the same money and it's also far more economical to run. Shame but let's see if they bring out a more basic version out that we can throw muddy dogs and a few sheep in without it destroying all the delicate electronics and plush upholstery 🤔😁

@paulf2529

11 ай бұрын

Exactly, my own isuzu d max is a decent enough spec and is good enough towing and off road for what I need. My d max is used like a van and always full of tools, drums of fuel etc. For non work use I have a volvo xc60 and this is superbly comfortable on all types of roads and excellent in the winter on snow. I'll stick with a two vehicle combination rather than putting my money into this compromise of a truck.

@cormacgodfrey2716

11 ай бұрын

I think they have a two-seat van version, be far better for the sheep etc. Bare floor n'all. No jump seats like the old G-Wagen or Defender though.

@johnraworth8019

11 ай бұрын

Our D'max is a Double Cab. Often have more then Two people in it. We also have a Jeep. Both vehicles have been fantastic in the snow and floods up here in the Highlands. Both Vehicles together cost less than one of these Grenaderrs

@richardharrold9736

11 ай бұрын

@@johnraworth8019 and this isn't eligible for VAT relief due to its massive weight and small payload.

Excellent accurate review Harry 👍

Mmm, interesting review as always, thanks Harry, keep well.

I've seen quite a few reviews of the Ineos Grenadier, but yours stands out. Your experience, impartiality, and genuine honesty make it a breath of fresh air. Thank you, Harry, for providing such valuable insights and giving us a true perspective on how the Grenadier performs as a farm car. Your expertise shines through in every review. Keep up the fantastic work! 👏🚜🔍

@jamesmurphy1389

11 ай бұрын

Thus speaks a citizen of Arslikhan. 😂

It's so impressive that they have tried to do this, but so hard to think of a reason to buy it vs Defender, Land Cruiser, Wrangler/Bronco in the US.

@bob-wo3ir

11 ай бұрын

Also, the price is hilarious

@saramalou9649

11 ай бұрын

Not hard at all, I would NEVER buy a Wrangler, Defender or Land Cruiser. Where i live this Car will be the same price or even Less. Drving around in a car EVERYBODY got is so 1990's. lol

@nothingtoseaheardammit

11 ай бұрын

In the US its a non-sale. This thing was made for English muddy ruts. Over here in the US we have offroad vehicles that put this thing to shame unfortunately. I was pretty stoked about it when it was first announced as a replacement for my FJ Cruiser but alas... I think I'll pass and just import a JDM landcruiser or get a new bronco.

@kjh23gk

11 ай бұрын

I really don't see what is impressive about a billionaire's vanity project that has spawned a fundamentally flawed car.

@cormacgodfrey2716

11 ай бұрын

@@nothingtoseaheardammit I think comparing a solid front axle work vehicle to IFS Yotas and Fords is a fallacy. This is far closer to a Wrangler (except built better) or a G-wagen than an FJ. Way more articulation than an IFS, way more durable off road with higher payloads. A JDM landcruiser is RHD and also has parts availability issues (though no doubt a new company like Ineos will suffer some to begin with), and a new Bronco is in a completely different class of vehicle. Its size, form factor, styling and engine sizes all point to US market, with a European twist. Remember, a "farm truck" in Europe have small engines, and are often two-door wagons/pickups. My uncle Seamus had a naturally aspirated diesel G-Wagen professional two-door making all of 70hp (maybe) back in the day.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the Suzuki Jimny as a farm car. It seems the antithesis of this car - tiny, barely a tonne, cheap as chips, and puts a smile on your face. Like this, it's objectively terrible, but it doesn't pretend to be anything else. I have a sneaking suspicion you might enjoy it for bouncing around the farm and pooling to the shops.

@sweetfreedomGB

11 ай бұрын

Towing would be an issue amongst lots of others

@georgehelliar

11 ай бұрын

@@sweetfreedomGB oh yeah, it has many, many faults, but also much to commend it, certainly at the price.

@sweetfreedomGB

11 ай бұрын

@@georgehelliar yes, agreed

@apostolis2939

11 ай бұрын

@@b64lewis Yes a quad would work but you would sacrifice any form of storage room and weather protection, so why not just use a dirt bike, plus i don't know the legislation regarding quads in the uk but in greece quads are not allowed in residential areas. With a jimny you can be warm and dry while going up and down on the farm and then you can go to the village to run errands as easily as any supermini, it's not a bad combination of attributes but certainly not a one vehicle solution

@hedydd2

11 ай бұрын

The Jimney commercial makes a lot of sense as a small people and tool carrier for a country estate, with good off road capability and superior roadability [though very uncomfortable] compared to something like a Kawasaki Mule or Deere Gator. It isn’t much more expensive either. In other areas it isn’t competing in the same class at all as Grenadier or Defender. It competes more with front wheel drive small French and Italian brand vans when much of the off-road extremes can be avoided, which is most of the time for many potential customers.

Hellfire, someone who hasn't been a Lemming like all the other Motoring Journalists felt the need to imitate! Thank you Harry.

I know at least 5 people that have ordered Grenadier, all as fashion accessories. I don’t think they will have them very long…….

‘Recirculating Ball’ ‘Roller Ball’ was a movie with James Cann in the 70’s Harry 😂

@robertcook2572

11 ай бұрын

It's a colloquialism

You've got to be kidding me! See, I have just been watching Jay Leno's video featuring a Military Spec Land Rover S3. Kinda great timing, guys, even if not deliberate. Cheers, Bunti

Good to see a review that is not so biased on the hype of the "old schoold Defender", thanks for the objectivity. Let's hope the Ineos have a very long life, the more options and competitors, the better.

Now I wish Land Rover made a Defender Classic, with the old school modernized design. And the New Defender keeping being the New Defender. If they changed only the body design between models maybe it would be doable and would appeal to a broader audience like G-Wagon and Old Defender fans.

The fact it's more expensive than the "posh" new Defender is a big miss. The stripped out, rugged version should be way less

@Jabber-ig3iw

11 ай бұрын

@@toomuchjam like what exactly?

@Millie-md4jk

11 ай бұрын

@@toomuchjam I wonder why…

@miketucker7466

11 ай бұрын

Trouble is it won’t be way less - 15 grand maybe… all the costs of development and kit to make it compliant with all the rules costs money

Good review. I was very tempted to get one, but I'm now not so keen.

One of the best things on the old Pajero/Shogun was the Compass/ Gradient Indicator! As men we get great enjoyment out of knowing these things, every 4x4 should have one! 😂

@benjammin1212

11 ай бұрын

can't beat a old mk2 shogun..

N1 Commercial classification means you can drive it on a normal car driving license because it has less than 3.5 tons gross vehicle weight. This vehicle meets that requirement for the DVLA but because it is so heavy unladen, the carrying capacity is limited to at best 800kgs. This means that the so-called ‘certified commercial’ versions, which are the van and utility five seater, just do not qualify as commercial vehicles as far as HMRC/VAT are concerned. Which kills it stone dead as far as many businesses are concerned. For the top two car versions, which are hardly more expensive and have the rear sides in glass rather than steel panels, they avoid the lower speed limits of the panel versions but they are all about or above the price of the far superior Land Rover Defender 110 cars. Around the £70k mark with no tax concessions for business users even on what are falsely described as ‘certified commercial vehicles’ [according to the Inios Grenadier web site]. This is very misleading of Ineos and there will already be some angry commercial customers because of this. They might as well have bought the top Trial and Fieldmaster versions or a fully glazed high spec Defender110 for very similar money.

@oceanheadted

11 ай бұрын

I was wondering about the tax treatment, thanks for the clarification.

@baronvonteuchter1412

11 ай бұрын

Yup, huge issue and massive oversight. Maybe they’ll make an LWB 4.6t version. Can’t see how on Earth they could shave 500kg off it. I can’t help but think it could have had a 2.0 4 pot diesel and a manual box with ~200bhp. Save weight, more space for the exhaust manifold and much lower cost.

@thomascole9308

11 ай бұрын

Christ, I think you’re right on labelling as a commercial, no doubt there will be some angry customers. And as you say, what a pointless version, all the drawbacks with none of the tax benefits .

@ammo4184

11 ай бұрын

The 2 seater van doesn't need the higher weight capacity to qualify as commercial. % of cargo area vs seating area means it qualifies, same as the current Defender & Disco 2 seater vans do, which I 'think' both carry less weight than the Grenadier.

@hedydd2

11 ай бұрын

@@baronvonteuchter1412 That sounds like a Ford Ranger or Amarok pickup. In their high spec four cylinder twin turbo 210hp Wildtrak versions, there is a saving of some £23,000 compared to Grenadier. £20k if choosing the top Platinum spec with V6 diesel, full time 4wd and full leather, ventilated and heated power seats, the 12.3” dash plus the superb infotainment system with portrait screen, B&O sound system etc etc. Over £10k of that saving is due to the VAT being reclaimed on the pickup but not allowed on any Grenadier model. The pickups are silly expensive in their own right but at a £20k saving for a better drive, come on! I’ve got tractors and quad bikes for the really technically challenging ground that can’t be driven around by the very capable pickups. Given a choice at the same £70k approximate purchase price, I would buy a Defender 110 rather than the Grenadier. It is only because the Grenadier was claimed to be a “certified commercial vehicle”, which is what I want, a work truck, that I risked ordering a Grenadier. Luckily they will return my £2500 deposit.

One of the things that fans of the old Defender dislike about the new one is all the electronics and stuff, so criticising the Grenadier for being "old school" and having live axles, manual diff locks and reciprocating ball steering is kind of missing the point. The Grenadier wasn't designed to be yet another modern SUV family car, it's intended to ba a very modifiable off roader or work vehicle capable of being used for expeditions into remote areas. You only have to watch any of the Australian off road channels to hear stories of New Defenders breaking and failing out in the outback, and the inability to cobble together a "bush mechanics" fix to get them back to civilization because of all their complicated mod cons..At the end of the day it's a case of horses for courses, after all the type of people who this is aimed at don't even mind having to stop an engage manual front hubs.

That rear small door function flawlessly to store the shoes in this video.

Thanks for your excellent review....pretty much as I thot...main one been price...at 40k you could overlook the niggles but last year I bought a Ranger Wildtrax for 34k (courtesy NFU) its no Land Rover but at half the price you say thank you and smile😁

The deal breakers for me is ( only sat in one, not driven ) A- the foot well in the RHD and it is small inside compared to my TD42TI Patrol.

I'd love to see an off-road review of this vehicle.

A couple of minor points that he should know before doing a review, as he is extremely experienced and knowledgeable about vehicles. He wants rack & pinion steering but this vehicle has a live beam front axle. So it would have to change to IFS. You can lock the diffs on any slippery surface, such as grass, but not needed in this case. He has the vehicle in high range and you would never lock the diffs in high range on any vehicle, you would only do it in low range, it isn't possible on this to lock front or rear diffs unless in low locked centre. This feature reduces the number of morons using it. It looks like he doesn't have the centre diff locked at all when going up the slope, however I can't tell 100%. Either way it made it fairly easily except he backed off the throttle, for some reason, near the top. Had he engaged centre diff low locked it would have walked up there easily. Jabbing away at the roof buttons just made him look like a fool, which he definitely is not!

@marvelz6355

10 ай бұрын

Well noted. The fact that he does not know the basics of difflock makes his view of off-road ability irrelevant.

@DavesIneosGrenadier

9 ай бұрын

@@iainbaker1439 I have driven one off road and on road and we must have been in different vehicles. Lambo seating position is low with legs almost straight out. In this you crank the seat up high and close and it is more like sitting in a chair. Steering has a line on top of the steering wheel and also an electronic display of where the wheels are however I didn't need either. Having owned utes/pickups they are great but useless if you want a station wagon. Possibly check out a real offroad review kzread.info/dash/bejne/fYib19KbkrXMn8o.html instead of this bullshit review.

@rightwingsafetysquad9872

5 ай бұрын

I lock the rear diff on my Ranger without being in low range all the time. Half the time I don't even bother putting it in 4Hi, just leave it in rwd. I understand that the systems probably work different on different cars. I'm just saying needing to lock the center before front or rear is not universal. Though I don't think you'd ever want to lock the front without also locking center and rear in any car.

@DavesIneosGrenadier

5 ай бұрын

@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 Not sure which model Ranger you have but I thought their diff-lock automatically cut out above about 30kmh. Maybe that is just on the newer versions with e-locker. I could see in your case it would really help as the Ranger is only a rear wheel drive as standard (not a negative) however the Grenadier is constant 4wd. So escalation for difficult terrain could be, just 4wd high nothing locked, 4wd high centre locked, 4wd low nothing locked, 4wd low centre locked, rear locked , front locked. Lots of options. You can drive in 4wd low up to 70kmh, unlocked on hard surfaces and locked on loose. Or locked on hard surfaces if you have excess money.

@rightwingsafetysquad9872

5 ай бұрын

@@DavesIneosGrenadier I have a 2019. It will not allow engaging the locking diff over a certain speed, but I'm not sure that it will unlock itself if you exceed that speed after locking it. Regardless, you should be able to lock the diffs without engaging low-range. Low range is not for low traction environments, it's for low-speed environments. For example, I would not engage low-range going up that hill. Most trucks actually disable all electronic traction aids if you put it in low-range.

Also speaking of the new Wrangler, it is proof you can have a ladder chassis and solid front axle, and still have decent on-road manners. Not as great as independent suspension, but still great. They have really dialled in the steering since the last generation (which drove more like two motorbikes welded together haha)

@garsimmulholland4984

5 ай бұрын

And at £40k nearly new with folding rear seats it’s excellent we use one at home with a 3.5 lift and winch it does everything we need.

This car will always remind me of Brexit and how the British public were asked to leave the EU for the good of British manufacturing by people like Jim Ratcliffe, who then promply left the UK to manufacture in the EU. Thanks Jim.

@midlandgeordie

11 ай бұрын

Hypocrisy comes to mind!

@turlstreet

11 ай бұрын

Such nonsense. The decision was -- as Harry put it quite clearly and impartially -- because Mercedes had just vacated a fully functioning plant in France, which was far easier and cheaper for Ineos to slot their own production line into, than building their own bespoke plant in Wales.

@the-real-bert

11 ай бұрын

@@turlstreet the point is - there is always going to be a better option than manufacturing in the UK, especially now we have left the EU.

@doderiolarkisso4038

11 ай бұрын

@@the-real-bert oh noooo you can't get cheap ass polish labour anymore and have to pay real wages now nooo!!

@ijandrzejuk121

11 ай бұрын

@@turlstreet 🤦‍♂

Harry you can’t turn on front and rear diff locks until you have locked the centre diff. You do this via the small lever next to the gear selector.

@harrysfarmvids

11 ай бұрын

I’d locked the centre diff when I entered the field and selected off-road via the roof mounted switch!

@markmccallum8256

11 ай бұрын

Don’t you need to be stopped to engage the diffs?

@romeandcurry6915

11 ай бұрын

No - up to 15kph

@adamhickford5502

11 ай бұрын

The point is that Harry's an experienced driver of this sort of vehicle and has good mechanical sympathy. If he's finding it awkward, it's a design flaw.

@scmtbcoach2477

11 ай бұрын

@@harrysfarmvids did it not work at all the time you had it? as you say all looks a bit of a faff to engage it etc when the auto locking rear diff works so well.

Great review Harry, very fair and unbiased. I fear that Ineos is trying to satisfy too many different customer groups. I thought the original intention was to provide a Defender clone at a reasonable price suitable for use on farms, Construction and the like. Here we have a vehicle loaded with all sorts of gizmos trying to compete with a myriad of other 4x4 offerings which I understood was never the primal intention of this vehicle!

@user-yv8kd2jo2x

10 ай бұрын

Way off

@georgedaville4662

10 ай бұрын

@@user-yv8kd2jo2x - what?

@PazLeBon

9 ай бұрын

its a confusing vehicle overall. its target market would sem to be farms and young folk neeeding a half decent 30k workhorse

What a pity, was hoping to get one at some stage. Will definitely wait. Thanks

Would have liked to have seen a lot more off road action!!! Also I note that you used the small rear door to place your boots in the back..... with no problems!!!! Regards Ian 👨‍🎤🇳🇿

@harrysfarmvids

11 ай бұрын

You got me on the rear door malarkey! 👏👏

@Millie-md4jk

11 ай бұрын

@@harrysfarmvids finally some plaudits 😂

Great review!! Surprisingly, you are the first reviewer to show the rear seats folded down. I was hoping they were going to fold down flat. What a disappointment! Also, the turning radius is another huge disappointment. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to pass on this vehicle. It's a great looking vehicle with too many flaws.

@worldsonline6804

10 ай бұрын

This is just a beginning, the coming variants will steadily improve on performance

Again, a nice review Harry, this time about a very brave attemp to put a car like this on the road. As a massive fan for all Land Rover i am intrigued by the Grenadier but i can not get used to its cluttered and messy design, tried hard to however ...and still trying...

The draw back for the G and the defender for me has always been the boot opening size. Just not wide enough

I have to say that the Grenadier looks a lot like a modern version of my 1977 Land Rover 109" Series III which had the 2.6 liter petrol inline six. I loved the car and it did some pretty serious challenges in the Norwegian mountains. Would I have bought a Grenadier rather than a new Defender 110 today? I don't think so and the explanation is, as Harry also points out, development has moved on and we demand more comfort and convinience today. Now, if I were going on an expedition to Siberia or deep into Africa a Granadier would probably have been a more natural choice, but then again I would rather have chosen a Toyota Land Cruiser J100/J200 for such a project.

I believe you need to lock the centre diff before engaging the rear and front diff lockers. The weight is similar to a Landcruiser with similar specs. It's great to get an informed view of the shortcomings of the vehicle. I like the new defender and was very interested in getting one. My observation is there have been a number of owners with significant failures within short periods after taking delivery. This put me off purchasing one. Maybe this has been resolved, as they have been around for a little while. I recently priced one after watching Harry's other video, and they are more expensive for a similar level of equipment. Luxury car tax alone adds another $11k to the Defender's price.

@cyclemoto8744

11 ай бұрын

Did he not lock the centre diff? If that's true, this reviewer shouldn't be taken seriously when reviewing 4x4 vehicles. Common knowledge to anyone who has experience with 4x4 that you should lock the centre diff prior to engaging cross axle diffs. ps: I have no idea who he is. Cheers from OZ

@richardharrold9736

11 ай бұрын

@@cyclemoto8744 no, he did lock the centre, he's said so in several comments. He's an experienced owner of every 4x4 from a Series 1 Landy forwards.

@cyclemoto8744

11 ай бұрын

@@richardharrold9736 Good to know, in that case his test vehicle has an issue. thanks

@richardharrold9736

11 ай бұрын

@@cyclemoto8744 it appears to have many, many issues... sufficient to render it an unviable purchase and uncompetitive in the market, arguably unsafe to drive...

It's a good idea. I hope they sort it out.

Thanks for your input from both channels. Any chance you can persuade Mercedes-Benz UK for a Unimog test drive.

I am looking forward to the day when they remake the Hillman Avenger or maybe Ford Zodiac - after all, they worked for us back then...

@kjh23gk

11 ай бұрын

Maybe Sir Jim's next car will be the Ineos Allegro?

@davidm5842

11 ай бұрын

My 1971 Hillman Avenger was terrible. My 1982 Astra felt like it came from a different century.

The steering is like that to bring back fond memories of old defenders 1/2 turn play in it 😂😂 I learned to drive in the Army in an Air portable .. and the steering was a guessing game..

Harry surely this is way better than an RL ,Bedford . This is an military . This vehicle will tow anything from a barge to full laden double decker bus.surely the design encompasses 1950 1st principles yet modern drive trains .I used go down to the recreational boat ramps on weekend Just watch the guys in modded landrovers and haul out their 35ft motor launches and the children loved being part of the action here it is!! Thankyou Sir

would be cool to see some reviews / showcases of the other farm equipment and vehicles you have - Harry's Barn?

Finally a good truthful review, been thinking of one of these the past 3/4 years all the hype for a good solid analog pretender and the, other reviews make it seem like they smashed it, you made some good solid points :) Thanks for the good honest review

I broke my finger in two places hitting a rock offroad so I would accept the extra turning to avoid that 😅 I've always preferred mechanical high / low diffs etc as you can put weight on the lever and feel when it drops in rather than looking for a flashing light. People are buying them, I've seen a fair few around. However commercially I would be surprised if a business would buy one over a pickup just because of the cost. Most pickups are good enough off road for the job in the uk but half the price. I like the idea but can't see me buying one. 👍

@PazLeBon

9 ай бұрын

totally. this would literallyrock it at those prices and to me thats wher tis hould be priced. if it isnt viable, then it isnt viable as a business really

I’m really glad they are building this. I hope more companies do something similar but with sports cars. Give me a v6/8, RWD, 6-speed sports car with limited tech.

Dear Harry please read, being a chap abit like you but 40 iv spent allot of time on utube and just wanted to say a bloody good well done to you firstly, you really are the definition of a good English bloke of which I am too. Anyway your work on KZread is just brilliant and I appreciate it. Wishing you and your family the best good sir.

@_Ben4810

11 ай бұрын

''being a chap abit like you but 40...'' 😆😆😆

I'm glad it exists. Some of the shortcomings in one's eyes aren't necessarily anything to be concerned about for others. Good review.

@_Ben4810

11 ай бұрын

....But when you start adding up ALL those shortcomings collectively.....So many of them could have easily been engineered-out at first glance...

@kevinfrancis2245

11 ай бұрын

You tried to climb that hill without the centre diff lock. This is also why you couldn't engage the front and rear lockers. This is a very sloppy review and you should have learnt how the vehicle works before wasting everyone's time.

@richardharrold9736

11 ай бұрын

@@kevinfrancis2245 he did lock the centre.

Same remarque as with the new defender: I got a 2009 discovery 3, doing all the stuff i have seen on the farm, for a fraction of the money and in better comfort and with better all around view. It tows my 4-horses trailer (officially 3.5 tons, in reality closer to 4 tons) with relative ease to. And i don't have to worry about one more dent in it either.

@malcolm8938

11 ай бұрын

So second hand things are cheaper than new ones?😮

@PazLeBon

9 ай бұрын

@@malcolm8938 cheaper and better i think is the point

‘I think it’s a bit of a floor’ great pun!

I actually have a Trailmaster Grenadier. My comments are as follows. Lots of good things. I agree with Harry that there is a great lump where you you want to put your left foot owing to the exhaust routing. The bonnet release catch is on the passenger side too. These two facts suggest that the car was principally designed with left hand drive in mind. There is no grab handle on the driver's windscreen pillar as there is on the passenger side - if this was deemed to be obstructing the driver's view then put a folding handle in place (similar to the one on the inside roof). The lack of a flat load space is a disapointment, but this should be easily fixed by adding something like a pallet to level things up. I guess if there is sufficient demand Truckman will produce a slide out accessory to compensate this. I don't think that the split rear door is a problem - apparently there was a weight issue with a single door. It's a pity that Ineos didn't ask ordinary people who owned similar vehicles for their comments in the development stage rather than having celebrities like Harry Kane and other footballers posing with the vehicle. The steering is odd and I suspect that it just takes getting used to. My previous vehicle was a HiLux and in terms of road use drove more car like than the Grenadier. Horses for courses maybe. The problem with the HiLux steering geometry is that if you hit a rut off road it would throw the steering all over the place, this would not be the case with the Grenadier's set-up. In terms of price, I started the purchase in the early stages of the vehicle's development and my Grenadier cost around about £60k including some extras - Ineos were very fair in holding their launch prices for those who put down deposits in the early stages.

As most 4x4's never go off road, i suspect the full leather version with more comfort may well attract buyers looking for the old Defender look, but wanting all the bells and whistles, rather like all the various Range Rovers on the school or shopping run

@banjopete

11 ай бұрын

The 4by4s that drive around puddles in a car park?

@Jabber-ig3iw

11 ай бұрын

Plenty go off-road, just because you see they in the supermarket car park doesn’t mean they don’t go off road, I’m guessing Ineos hope this will be bought by farmers who definitely go off-road.

I'd like to see the more utilitarian models and how they stack up. The problem with the version tested is that one vehicle the market doesn't really need is another big luxury SUV. Rather than creating a new traditional Land Rover, they seem to have tried to make something very similar to what Land Rover did themselves in terms of the new Defender, which really has nothing in common with the utility Land Rovers of old.

@nutsackmania

11 ай бұрын

lol ok cnbc tell us what the market "needs" christ

@georgegently3026

11 ай бұрын

To say there is a coat of living crisis, you would think 50 to 60k for a car (or more likely the monthly lease) is way too much, but they'll shift loads of these and loads more land rovers. There's money out there, loads of it.

@fiveowaf454

11 ай бұрын

@@georgegently3026 It never ceases to amaze me how there is an endless stream of money to spend on expensive vehicles. Even though interest rates have been significantly raised here in the US, it seems manufacturers are subsidizing the rates and so the monthly cost is still relatively low and people do not focus on the common sense side of burning large amounts of money on leases, or carrying huge debt levels.

@TheChill001

11 ай бұрын

@@fiveowaf454 the majority of sales are primarily done on loans, credit and lease these days. It's in a way not a good system, because this so-called endless stream of money is far from endless and far from reliable. We're literally rushing head first into another major debt crisis this way. On the other hand though, people like me only benefit from this stupidity, considering I managed to get me a bargain buying a leased Audi A4 for 12k euros with only 50k kilometers on it.

@PazLeBon

9 ай бұрын

it simply cannot be considered utilitarian if it costs me 4 years salary and if it is then part of the original meaning is lost

Would love you to try the pure EV Munro MK1 built in Scotland.

Shame the Ineos Grenadier wasn't manufactured in the UK.

@ronanmc2112

11 ай бұрын

I think something that happened in 2016 was the cause of that.

@kjh23gk

11 ай бұрын

Ironically, it's named after the Royal Grenadiers that fought at Waterloo against Napoleon, but it's made in France. 😂

@wingcommanderdaltonwalton67

11 ай бұрын

Especially since Ratface was a champion of Brexit. Nobody in Britain should be buying this foreign crap!🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

@horsenuts1831

11 ай бұрын

All of those gammon Brexiteers thought they were going to get a replacement for an old-style Defender. I recall a number of them claiming it would 'start' from £30K and be built in the UK. It ended up costing twice as much, was built by foreigners in the EU by a non-domiciled Brexiteer who doesn't want the jobs to go to Brits, and gets poor reviews. It is a billionaire's vanity project that deserves a decent burial.

@evo5dave

11 ай бұрын

​@@ronanmc2112 something that Ratcliffe was a proponent of!

I see your points raised, in both this farm review and in the garage review……. Like many of our generation, I’ve had a fair bit of history with Land Rovers…… I ran a 69 built 2a SWB genuine desert pink panther……. which some clown had painted mat green 😳. Amongst us we had an original Range Rover in hearing aid beige with rubber mats, 2 very similar S1 short/short 80’ wheelbase, one 49, one 52. S1 107, another S 2a, 90’s, 110’s, 127 and others, Disco 1, 2, 3, 4 and the tramps hat 5. I’ve played with the latest (I detest the name) Defender, a couple of URBAN Lara Croft style weapons……. To me, they are a fine Discovery, style, finish and purpose. To me, Land Rover no longer make a Land Rover. The Ineos seems a good stab, but too expensive, reminds me of the Santana……. or of my beloved proper G Wagons, my 280 GE auto, languishing in a friends barn in France and my much missed 1989 300 GD manual, regularly overtaken by continental drift……. Surely JLR could turn out a proper utility truck for a competitive price, tempting folks away from the Pick-ups so common nowadays. £45k, with one engine block, petrol and diesel, with or without elasticktrickery…… simple ladder frame and composite panels, hose through interior……. maybe, call it a “Land Rover”…….. it would probable sell. No SVR, no Tomb Raider…… no Special Edition, no leather…… no fuss.

@harrysfarmvids

11 ай бұрын

Interesting. I often thought the Discovery 4 is the vehicle with the most potential for further development. When it was replaced by Discovery 5, I wish the bones of Discovery 4 could have been transferred to Tata in India so they could develop proper commercial versions of it thanks to its separate chassis design. I could envisage a pickup version of the Discovery 4, as well as a stretched wheelbase one for a crew-cab version. Lots of potential but sadly it never happened. Ineos would have done much better by going for the Discovery 4 market, rather than the old (rose-tinted) Defender market in my view.

@npet6842

11 ай бұрын

@@harrysfarmvids That's a very well thought out reply indeed .

@iancharlton678

11 ай бұрын

⁠@@harrysfarmvids agreed…….. I’ve always liked the Disco 3/4, I enjoy the thrust of the V6 diesels, but sadly can’t trust them not to detonate……. Petrols appeal to the child in me, but the miser holds sway and I just can’t. I lived with the quad cam 4.7 Amazon V8, loved the drive although it felt a bit too busy for a big bus. Also, the Disco 3/4 are just too heavy…….. a lookalike monocoque version at say 2200kg would make a lot more sense With hindsight and shamelessly parroting your final comment……. do we really need a basic Land-rover when pickups are more use. A couple of friends have hose down D Max ISUZU’s on the farm at a much more reasonable price point…… Good, realworld testing as ever 🙂

Overall it is impressive that the Grenadier made it to market, it’s the first unit they made so I have to believe it will improve, I’m not someone who would want so much specification so look forward to the commercial variant, but first impressions are important and mine are not very positive.

@TheChill001

11 ай бұрын

I agree and to be fair, if this is to be considered the first version, with all its faults...I don't think it'll be long before this characterful behemoth becomes a list-topper for wealthy farmers, hunters and even places like australia and NZ

Good review as always. I'd be interested to know how many prospective purchasers are also watch enthusiasts who, on the watch forums rail against Patek or AP homages and the motives of their purchasers. Something for the sociologists and marketing wonks to study I suppose

I can see the hard core 4x4 fans loving the manual diff you have to fiddle about with to get working

I suppose it depends on how robust they are, on my dad's park they have two 07 plate rangers, they have had tatas and Santana's but they all ware out, mean while they still have a m reg defender going strong, they are now slowly replacing the fleet with used old defenders as they are just so rugged and last, on road performance is nice to have however most of their vehicles life's are spent off road.

Looks enormous

Cards on the table, my Grenadier was collected on 22/04/2023 and I have done more than 2,000 miles since then. The diff-locks are a RTFM problem, (Read The Flippin' Manual), the seats are great, yours look a bit low and you would be more comfortable sitting up straighter, nearer the wheel; it's not a sports car, so don't try and replicate the seating position. The split rear doors are that way so you can always open a back door, even if you are close to a wall or have a trailer hitched - like you did, it's great to be able to slot your wellies in after wandering around in the mud. Mine is still thirstier than I would like, although it is slowly getting better. As a tow vehicle, so far it has been imperious, but I wish they have provided some bigger/more versatile mirrors. It does give the impression of being built like a bank vault, which neither the new Defender or the old ones ever did. So far Ineos have not covered themselves in glory with technical support to owners/dealers, but I have high hopes that the issues can be addressed in a suitable time frame.

@scmtbcoach2477

11 ай бұрын

He had the centre diff locked they just weren't working. Glad your enjoying the car and are not too blind to the faults like some new owners! The big test will be reliability and customer when faults occur (they will as it is new car) but Kudos for being an early adopter! brave man :)

@naturshoot8448

11 ай бұрын

If the big door opened first, surely it wouldn't have to be opened beyond the space needed by the small door to let you pull that open and put stuff in? For the few times you would need that it would seem to be a better compromise than nearly always having to open both doors.

@JeremyEdwards996

11 ай бұрын

@@naturshoot8448 Imagine a trailer on the back and where the jockey wheel would stick up. The big door with the tyre on would hit the jockey wheel after a minimal amount of travel - this afternoon's real-life scenario, as I had left the tie-downs in the load bay.

@JeremyEdwards996

11 ай бұрын

@@scmtbcoach2477 He really did need to read the manual, low range centre diff lock on first, then rear lock then front lock. There are other conditions, like traction control not active and a speed limitation.

@scmtbcoach2477

11 ай бұрын

@@JeremyEdwards996 what a faff just to go up a grassy hill! Can see why he likes the point and shoot auto systems in the more modern cars.

That's a lot of money for the car... I'm lucky enough to have the new 110, and very happy for it.

@Jabber-ig3iw

11 ай бұрын

I’ve just driven the new 110 off road and it was fantastic, insanely capable, if I needed one I’d buy one, only issue is longevity, will they still be on the road in 30+ years time like the old one?

@Steeve9292

11 ай бұрын

@@Jabber-ig3iw To be fair the only reason any of the old ones are on the road is because people loved them and threw money at them, when all good sense and logic would say "buy something else!". If your heart said yes, no reason not to go for it and enjoy yourself.

I've been watching this fascinating project from the side lines, and I don't understand the gap in the market that Ratcliffe sees. But he's rather a clever chap and I'm just a nobody off t'internet. I was hoping for a cult car for the masses as the whole market has gone poncy. At ~£66,000, this isn't it. But bravo to Ratcliffe for getting it produced. I accept it's perhaps a strategy to recoup as much of the capital start up costs as possible whilst learning for the next model. He needs to sell about 23,000 if it's a commercial proposition, that's probably about 2 years worth. Or perhaps, with £40bn in the bank, he's just doing it for the hell of it.

@PazLeBon

9 ай бұрын

there is no gap, its almost like its aiming for 14 year olds in some ways

I am somewhat disappointed by Harry’s lack of understanding of the sales target group. This is meant to be sold to and driven by people without any mechanical sympathy. It is meant to be repaired in the bush and by low-skilled mechanics. It’s not an equivalent of the new Defender, as the new Defender is actually a Discovery with a different outfit. The Deffy is not going to last long enough in the wild and good luck finding a computer diagnostics if it breaks a few thousand kms from civilization. That’s why this car was built. It’s an alternative of the Toyota LC 70-series. And this is pretty obvious, which makes me wonder if Harry wrote his homework upfront?

@richardharrold9736

11 ай бұрын

That being the case, the Grenadier fails on all counts. Electronic digital dash. BMW engine. ZF autobox. It should have a brutally simple 4-cylinder diesel and a manual gearbox, plus an analogue gauge cluster, if it is meant to thrive in that market. But it isn't. It's an expensive toy for rich posers.

It strikes me as a lot of good ideas from various other established vehicles thrown together with little skill or real thinking and is a very expensive failure, but that tends to be the way with the first of anything will be interesting on how they develop going forward

My Smart Roadster doesn’t self-centre very well either… funnily enough built in the same factory !

The issue with the left foot in RHD version seems to be a classic error after designing a LHD 10:43 vehicle and then converting it over. Not surprising as it was deaigned and built in Europe.

@PazLeBon

9 ай бұрын

some of us in Europe drive on the left :p

Please could you explain the researence of interest in flaxks? Flacks was commonly cropped in ireland to be made into linen.The lare scale production died out with other synthetic products available deskilling the workforce and the closure of linen mills. the renewed interest in flacks in small scale production has been inited by the research into new alterate uses for the fibres in modern materials to reduce green miles.

Those of you who watched the Harry's garage video can skip to 9:45. Before that he repeats the overview of the Grenadier from that video.

@Millie-md4jk

11 ай бұрын

And was equally negative from the start If it were a JLR product he’d be smiling from ear to ear

As much as I like Harry, I also take what he says with a grain of salt. Here is a perfect example of why.... All I've heard is that this vehicle lacks the luxuries he's come to expect at his older age - the doors are too heavy, he doesn't want to have to engage the diffs manually, the road noise for him is far too high. He's missing the point entirely.... this vehicle was made to go off roading and overlanding and be infinitely repairable in the wilderness by owners. This car wasn't made for bombing through the Cotswalds or going from Newport Beach over to Beverly Hills in California... this vehicle was built for a purpose, and those that have deposits in the Western United States are very excited to finalize builds and take delivery later this year. Also-for those of us that are BMW fans... this is finally a BMW powered Off Road rig!! Best of both worlds.

@richardharrold9736

11 ай бұрын

A Ford Ranger for £20k less has a vastly more luxurious interior, double the payload and is better off road. This thing is just crap everywhere. I'm a BMW owner and I wouldn't want a BMW engine in a truck!

@number1Schumacherfan

11 ай бұрын

@@richardharrold9736 it’s clear you don’t know what you’re talking about.

@scandinavia6271

11 ай бұрын

I agree with you; The pre-production story-telling was “built-for-purpose” and “not a SUV”. However, that is not what is coming off the assembly line! Please explain to me HOW this vehicle is better for off roading and over landing than the new Defender? A true 4x4 does not need to have terrible ergonomics and steering to be good!

@richardharrold9736

11 ай бұрын

@@number1Schumacherfan no, I do know what I'm talking about. This thing is way too heavy, it can't carry anything much, it's not eligible for VAT relief, it has poor ground clearance, the interior is horrid... and that engine is not reliable.

@number1Schumacherfan

11 ай бұрын

@@richardharrold9736 stuff it mate. You're a miserable old codger that can't afford it so you're slagging everyone else off

I think Jim has completely missed his own brief. It was supposed to be a cheaper alternative to the Defender without all the luxury and car like features which moved that car up the price band. It looks like a Chinese knock off and it's way too expensive

@we-can-do

11 ай бұрын

Sir Jim should stick to business he knows, this obviously is a loss making venture. But he's rich enough to waste money and effort pursuing meaningless ventures.

@alexanderstefanov6474

11 ай бұрын

​@@we-can-dounfortunately we're not rich enough to endure his other folly Brexit

@volvos60bloke

11 ай бұрын

@@alexanderstefanov6474 we dont need to be rich are benefit’s of Brexit is in other way’s .

@jb109

11 ай бұрын

Agree; it does look like a knock-off!

@GG-im1cb

11 ай бұрын

I agree, I was excited to see what the Grenadier would become as it was supposed to be the next gen Defender, and appeal to the off road / farming / country sports communities, however the final cost is way beyond the initial projections and even the utility model it’s far too expensive to be used commercially compared to the likes of the Hilux etc. It was supposed to be low tech I.e mechanical as opposed to electrical, but failed in that regard as well. All in all it’s more like a Discovery than a Defender, and is just another Chelsea tractor with a Defender-ish look. I bet the depreciation will be horrendous on the first batch of cars and can only hope that they manage to get the price down sort the niggles and find their niche, otherwise this has Delorean written all over it (without the flux capacitor) 😀

Great review Harry thank you. Both of my sons have 4WD "utes" and they are a breeze on the road and very capable on the dirt. INEOS are to be praised for the initiative but have to learn that market expectations have moved on. BTW - video needs more Stanley input - what did he think of the INEOS?

I can’t wait to see the Munro electric vehicle on Harry’s Farm.👍

@InspirationSessions

11 ай бұрын

Or a Rivian

@commuterbranchline8132

11 ай бұрын

@@InspirationSessions For Harry’s Farm, I’d pass on the Rivian, I think it’s more lifestyle vehicle or Chelsea Tractor. I’d probably reserve the Rivian for Harry’s Garage!

@InspirationSessions

11 ай бұрын

@@commuterbranchline8132 not sure how it would cope with proper British mud, this is true. What Americans think of as mud and what we in the UK think of as mud is often not the same thing, in my experience...

After living with ours for just a few days, I have to ask, am I driving the same car? This review really surprised and disappointed me as did the one on HG. Most unusual. I'll review our Grenadier again after 1000 miles and at six months. So far I'm really pleased with it and we also have both new and old 110 Defender on the fleet.

The weight is extraordinary, my 2000 TD5 130 with camper conversion weighs less than that, it also gets better MPG.

@andrewnevermind4902

11 ай бұрын

And isn't a blattent rip off.

@timsbike4887

11 ай бұрын

Alloy body

@stevefuller1779

11 ай бұрын

Yes but the good old Defender is no good in a crash and all that safety weighs a lot1!

@Jabber-ig3iw

11 ай бұрын

@@stevefuller1779 true but it’s still excessive

@PazLeBon

9 ай бұрын

my 1980 vw transporter is about 700kg and is better hahah

Battery situation is probably for military radio use. They will be looking at such markets.

Glad I have bought my secondhand G wagen diesel 2013 .. diff lock’s simple 96 l tank … certainly would not buy the Grenadier at the price quoted… the left foot restriction would drive me mental as would the back door… good effort Jim but better out there on full beam axles .

If Harry was an independent Land Rover consultant for 10+ years, would it be reasonable to disclose this in a review like this?

@stevenlharris

9 ай бұрын

Why? They don't exist anymore.