I'm not surprised at all. An XS20 is simply a cast B20 cymbal which hasn't gone through the whole expensive time-consuming process of making it sound great. It was essentially unfinished. Tim finished it. He did an amazing job but the raw material was there already.

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

That's exactly what I was thinking as well. Never tried it though. Really blown away with the results!

@jjcdrumplay

2 ай бұрын

He thinned it out, and it is not the same type of ride, so not good for most rock anymore but more rather for Jazz now, right?

@jazzhole8208

2 ай бұрын

I luv it 🙌❤️🔥🥁

@benpeterson7530

2 ай бұрын

@@jjcdrumplay I was thinking the cymbal sounded pretty solid for $60 TBH. Maybe not for jazz, but I don't think I'd be able to tell you that this wasn't a Zildjian A or A custom medium, or a Sabian AA or AAX medium just by listening to it.

@eroddrums

2 ай бұрын

I wanna see Tim do that with a b8 ride cymbal. Now THAT would be impressive 😂

I'm always amazed by Timothy Roberts's cymbal making videos.

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

Likewise!

He’s arguably the greatest cymbal maker in the US right now.

@QuickestQuickChop

2 ай бұрын

Paul francis and tim roberts for sure

@falconshock3677

2 ай бұрын

I’m still giving the nod to Paul Francis, if you’ve ever heard him talk about cymbals for 12+ hours you know hes the American cymbal grandmaster if there ever was one 😂

@vinoyarey3183

2 ай бұрын

if you look outside youtube there’s a lot!!!

The expression on your face when you tried out the unmodded cymbal is priceless. I was doing a similar thing with my face and going, “Ouch, my ears! Please make it stop!” That said (and having watched Timothy’s video), I’ll just say that I think I’m more partial to the unriveted version. But in any event-night and day, man, night and day . . .

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

I might agree with you. I’m keeping the rivets in until I decide I want to check it out without them.

@HA11EYS_COM3T

2 ай бұрын

I didn’t hear anything wrong with it, then again I’m not much of a stickler for cymbals even if I’m a big sound design guy when it comes to audio and I’m not much of a cymbal guy either

The question isn't "Can it be done?", but "Can it be done for substantially less than just buying an expensive cymbal?".

@Gk2003m

2 ай бұрын

Right. In watching this vid, you see exactly why pricey cymbals cost as much as they do. In 1987, a Sabian 16” AA Sound Control crash cost $79. Thirty-seven years later, inflation has doubled… and then nearly doubled again. When I look online I see AA 16” cymbals selling for $279. Given my memory of the old prices it seems to cost a fortune, but it’s really right inline with the math of a relatively reasonable 3% average annal inflation. So a $400 hand hammered crash would not be unreasonable.

@nealixd.3011

2 ай бұрын

For sure. I hit my local Music Go Round and find some fantastic cymbals for low bucks. Due to inflation, I see the fairly common XS20 20" rides run about 60-80 bucks now, but they are not bad cymbals at all for folks on a budget. I would recommend them to cash strapped folks. I just spend another 20-90 bucks and pick up some really decent Zildjians and Sabians. I love the Paistes best when I can find the Signature Series rides and crashes, those are gold to my ears.

That cymbal sounds great. You sound good too bro.

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

Appreciate it!

That cymbal has a lot of fire in it, you make it sound great. I got here from Tim Roberts' video. Congrats to you both!

sounded fine the way it was.

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

You’re no fun. 🤪

@ArenHill

2 ай бұрын

But why settle for 'fine' when you can have 'outstanding?'

your kit sounds SOOO GOOOD i love it

Very nice. I have had 2 cymbals modified by Timothy. He does a great job. The 20 inch Sabian Artisan Vault ride that he very recently modified for me is fantastic.

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

I bet it’s incredible!

After watching this video, Tim, I think you have convinced me to take a 21" pre-split Bosphorus Traditional Ride I have and have Timothy modify for me.

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

He is a magician!

Sounds so good

I absolutely love this collaboration!!!!

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

Thanks!

Man so glad you came back to make videos again

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

Thanks so much!

Timothy Roberts is a master! I have many cymbals that his hammer touched and I am so grateful!

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

Agreed!

@benpeterson7530

2 ай бұрын

Just out of curiosity, how much does something like that (the reworking of the cymbal) cost? There is a guy selling 2 XS20 rides, a crash, and hats for a good price locally. If I could get them to sound like HHX evolutions it might be a good pick up.

@brent3760

2 ай бұрын

​@@benpeterson7530At most $150 plus shipping. Reverie drums on line is Tims company!

@krissv3ctor512

19 күн бұрын

@@benpeterson7530 I would say somewhere in the realm of $300 per cymbal with shipping depending on where you live.

Tim Robby is the BEST independent cymbal smith. His cymbals are insanely heavenly. They belong in Area 51. His content is purely amazing. He is very passionate about his craft. He also makes reverie jazz drums and percussion effects!!!

HA, fairly new drummer here and just discovered this channel. I only play drums for myself and am a full blown drum addict... I waited 2 years to get off my wallet and purchase what I thought would be upper-decent cymbal set, yep XS 20's. Played a full set of Meinl HCS prior and hated them, but waited. I've been okay with my XS 20's - until now that I heard the transformation. Crap, my cymbal saga continues!! Thanks (I think) for this.

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

It never ends!

Word? Damn. That is a complete/total transformation.

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

I can’t get over it.

Tim is an incredibly talented craftsman. Sounds awesome. He transformed couple of Paiste 404s for me. They are pure magic.

The smaller bells on the XS20 are nice too. A good place to start.

Damn that sounds incredible!

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

Right???

The prize of used Sabian XS just doubled ... Cool idea and a good video too!

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

😂 yeah, at least for a while.

@krusher74

2 ай бұрын

yeah. but whats the cost to mail it to tim and back and for the process?

I think the unaltered XS was pretty good in its own right, albeit too high-pitched and kind of stiff. And I think I'd like the tailored version better with way fewer rivets - it sounds a little choked to me.

@TheJohnLyons

2 ай бұрын

I agree. Somewhere in the middle would be nice. BUT it was for Tim and he likes it so...

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

I agree the rivets choke it, but I’m okay with that for now. I’ll probably take them out at some point. I’ve always been a fan of the xs20 line. I have had a few of them over the years. I especially love the hi hats.

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

I do love it! Also, I can always take the rivets out when I’m ready. I’m just living the sound as it is right now.

@dividedwords

2 ай бұрын

@@TimMetz What is it about the hats? Very punchy or something like that?

@TK-xo2mf

2 ай бұрын

Can't really make an informed decision until you hear it in a band. (My scdr is magic in a band setting but a little harsh in the practice room)

I used to have an xs20 medium as a kid. I always wanted to modify it but didn't have the means, skill, or knowledge haha. thanks for making the video.

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

You’re welcome!

Tim already did a video on the XS20 makeover! It really depends, if you want a heavier sound or not. Take the Neil Peart Paragon ride , who would use that for Jazz? Bill Stewart.., he's more on the medium thin side with the cymbal tightened down..but boast he likes the many heavy Zildjian rides too. It's on their site.

A few Weeks ago this video came out. Im goad i got to see it

Sounded better to me (spang-a-langing) before doing anything to it

Fun video! Just found this channel. Might I suggest to a fellow jazz drummer who tunes his bass drum in the bebop style, and feathers the bass drum: Try a lamb's wool beater. At first they are too soft, but once they break in a bit, you'll be "felt not heard" like the best of them. Thanks for the great video. Cheers,

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

Thanks! I’ve tried them many times in the past. I do like them once they are worn down to the cork core, but over the years I have become more fond of the articulation harder beaters provide.

@franktatom1837

2 ай бұрын

Great video, Tim. I used a lambswool beater on my 20" 1966 Ludwig at a trio gig in a very live room and the bass player thought it was about to rain outside when I was just tapping the bass drum with the beater while getting my set adjusted, thinking the bass drum was thunder outside. Not saying that's a typical jazz sound but it sounded great in that room when I started playing at normal volume. Lowering the tuning a bit helps the bass drum breathe a bit with that kind of beater as the note isn't as staccato as with other beaters at any tuning.

well of course he said "yes"... you're Tim F**king Metz :o

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

🤣

am i the only one who thought " dang, tim metz is literally making the BEFORE sound good " like when you've got that real learned touch, you can make a horrid xs20 sound not too bad at all. kind of gave me joe morello/elvin jones vibes!

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

You're too kind! Thank you!

Not hitting the bell more during the demo is a real tragedy

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

A great teacher of mine used to say, “Leave em wanting more.”

Yes, that makes 75% of my time and work... turning customers B20 cymbals from trash to treasure... there are some other cheap to mid priced B20 out there that can be turned to real gems!!! Maybe I´ll tell you later ;)

Unbelievable!

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

I know right???

bell and crashability sound good, not a fan of the wash, sounds different for sure, but better? not sure, this guy is a great drummer and between him a mic, he even made the crappy b20 sound decent.

Definitely dried it out, almost sounds like my Istanbul K dance ride.

whoa thats crazy, ive never seen a cymbal similar to that except for in this video

What a teeny tiny world. Not sure how i wound up here, besides briefly viewing Tim Roberts mod on this cymbal…..anyways, I found It amusing that I purchased that first 39.99 “cast” cymbal you were checking out in beginning of this video…..was back in Sept….I was eyeing the hammering …….it is a Wuhan Heavy Ride…..damb Far Eastern Ks

@TimMetz

Ай бұрын

No way! I almost pulled the trigger on that too. lol!

@zacharymallilo

Ай бұрын

@@TimMetz I believe you might have left this buttery beast alone……..

@TimMetz

Ай бұрын

@@zacharymallilo Wow! That's crazy! I'm glad you got a good one!

@zacharymallilo

Ай бұрын

@@TimMetz ha yes….……thank you ….just got a few minutes smashing right alongside a 20” NewStamp …….

When he played it in the original state, I had no idea what was wrong with it. Sounded fine to my beginner's ears.

@tofuleg

2 ай бұрын

It sounded fine. I agree. Nothing to do with beginner ears.

@gabten6285

2 ай бұрын

Wrong for jazz, not because it was a bad cymbal. Too heavy, too loud, too much ping... It's more rock oriented.

Do you play your Funch lots?

Bro, the xs 16 medium thin was my favorite cymbal :(

it just sounds more rattly to me instead of more pingy?..but its hard to tell over the internet and compression and such..your playing makes either one sound good to me though.

4:08 Nice

Sounds like an old K now......Good job.

How do I send Timothy my cymbal?

Also, not hitting your OTHER cymbal for a comparison was a completely missed opportunity.

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

Gotta have content for another video!

niceee

i.. kinda liked it more without the rivets....

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

I’ll likely be taking them out soon.

@theredneckdrummerco.6748

2 ай бұрын

lol. i prefer darker rides. wash makes my ears itchy😂

Sounds a bit mellow and undefined for my taste.

Sometimes I feel like I can't trust my ear. The modified cymbal sounds clangy and muted to my ear. The original one sounds better except when you try to crash it. All of you are saying the modified version sounds better, though. I know I should pick what I like if I'm playing for my own enjoyment. If I'm trying to sound professional, however, should I go with what others think sounds great? The thought is that if the people I'm playing with think it sounds better, isn't that what matters for professional use? Kind of like how session bassists always being a P-Bass to the studio, even if they hate playing a P-Bass, because recording engineers know how to make a P sit in the mix?

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

You can like what you like and play what your ear hears. There’s a lot more to a cymbal sound than just the cymbal most importantly is touch. A great drummer can make any cymbal sound good. If I had to play the xs20 in its original form on a gig, I would make it work. It would inspire me to play differently. That’s what all your gear should do, inspire. Hope this helps!

yo at 5:23 u show ur adress on the package.

@TimMetz

2 ай бұрын

Welp, I thought it was too small. It has since been blurred. Thanks!

It's funny, cause in this video the cymbal sounds pretty solid before changing it, but in the video working on it, it sounds like the garbage you'd expect.

Nice for you, but we can't hear cymbals on KZread... You can often barely tell someone's hitting it, but in no way hear the tone, response, & detail... I feel SO sorry for people who only know "music" on KZread...

Guitar center sucks , the Walmart of music, I do all I can to not support them with my money , but of course the choices are limited because they shut down most local drum and music stores , so yay, guitar center rules

It is dead.