It’s always funny to me how bad good drummers are at sounding like bad drummers.

@HiFisch94

4 ай бұрын

They aren't as used to playing like a bad drummer as bad drummers (like myself atm) 😂

@cello_monkey

4 ай бұрын

⁠​⁠@@HiFisch94lol same here my impression of a bad drummer is spot on 😂

@Johnbobon

4 ай бұрын

If I'm good at anything at all, it's sounding like a bad drummer.

@fredrikio

4 ай бұрын

Hahah. That is so true. It's a mad skill good drummers can't mimic.

@Obscurity202

4 ай бұрын

Yes

You are spot-on with identifying the components that go toward developing accurate subdivision. It's something that I have also been working on for a few years, ever since I heard Benny Greb talk about displaced click & gap click. My personal take on this, is that it's vitally important to work at slow tempos (sometimes starting around 40 bpm). Working on the hypothesis, "If you can't make it sound good at slow tempos, it won't help to speed it up" has proven to be a game-changer for me. It seems to me that the biggest mistake a drummer can make is to push the tempo before they have a solid command of the musicality of what they are practicing. So, I find myself examining every motion to be sure it is the most efficient I can make it (looks elegant & feels fluid), every note placement to be sure it is accurate, and the dynamics (or touch) of everything I hit to make sure they reflect the music. Increasing the tempo before I've satisfied all of these conditions usually does more harm than good. Please keep doing what you're doing, because your videos always get me thinking.

@davidramirezrodriguez3373

4 ай бұрын

Perfect, slow tempos will built yourself more precise, speed will come naturally working loose and breathing etc etc

@joe1645

2 ай бұрын

Ive been starting by using a consistent tempo at the default 130. I never play to a metronome below 90. Thanks to your advice, im going to start at 40.

This is what I want my drum teacher to go over with me. Great vid, I believe most high level teachers teach this

What you really saying is everyone should be able to play thrash metal. Let me explain. In thrash and hardcore punk the drums usually have this fast double time rhythm, when you have a loud snare drum on every even 8th note/16th note. It makes the music energetic, but it also might confuse unfamiliar listeners, let alone players (Metallica's "Fight fire with fire" plays around with this confusion). When I learned to hear the downbeat the proper way and don't get confused, it really made my time better, like you said. So yeah - everyone should go listen to some off beat stuff🤘👍

Nate you're absolutely correct. During my pandemic practice I was able to focus on some things I wanted to do for decades, since the 70s, but with life being what it is, it took something of this magnitude to slow life down. I also battled a long bout with shingles for several months and couldn't sit at a kit till I began to heal so there was plenty of time to reflect on what I wanted to do to rebuild myself after all those years of playing backbeat music. I desperately needed to get back into re-developing my Jazz chops since I'm getting up there in age. During my reflection period I started to write down the most important tenets of drumming that I needed to focus on. I created a sign that I hung in my practice space to reinforce what I believe is number one on that list that reads, "If it's not on the grid, it's just slop." I had been thinking about lessons learned from my teachers and band directors when I was in school as a kid. One thing that kept coming up in rehearsals was the idea of subdivisions. One thing I remember that was quite profound was a statement one of them made about not just being aware of the notes we play and their placement within the subdivision, but the rests and the space between the notes as well. In practice, this begins with playing something agonizingly slow so you not only perceive all of the notes, rests and spaces but you can better focus on the physical motions that enable you to properly place the notes you play. Developing that is what's helped me develop a better feel and control over everything I play. I can still remember my wind ensemble director screaming at the woodwinds, "SUB-DI-VIDE DAMMIT!!!" It was funny at the time but he got results. He would work individually with kids and get them to achieve that awareness and in a short time that wind ensemble became a juggernaut.

Thanks Nate, great lesson.

Always cogent and down-to-Earth advice!

This channel has helped me to upgrade my drum skills from neofit to beginner

Loved it, thank you!🙏🏽

Great documentation of the process for ear training/metronome training here 👌🏽

Totally agree that this stuff makes all the difference. Subdivisions, micro time, whilst it can be super boring to practise it is so important. I have my own practise method for this stuff, the important thing is to take timekeeping seriously and inspect yourself often - there is slow motion video on phones nowadays, just saying…..

@ayoungethan

3 ай бұрын

there are people who think subdivision is boring?

Thanks for bringing this into my focus again. I knew about it, practiced its little bit aaaand let it slide like always. But I am now in a spot where the tight playing has become soooo much more important and my practice routine has changed greatly for the better. So it's time to hop on the train to Metronome-Offbeat-City again and practice that shit. I am soooo tempted to start with the offbeat 16th notes but I know I have to work through the 8ths first. Thanks again for the inspiration !

Loved it!! Thanks bro

Fantastic concept!

amazing video man. i’ve worked on this bunch but i clearly have a ways to go.

Really enjoyed this lesson. I’ve been wanting to use my metronome in more creative ways. Just wasn’t sure what to do. And now I do.

I dig it. I practice with a metronome on the beat on a semi regular basis. Over the years it hard helped my time A LOT. I read a while back to try beats on off beats as you describe. I tried it once and was clueless on how to make it work. But you did a great demonstration on how to start. I'm gonna start playing with off beat 8ths tonight! Thank you so much. Oh, and your kit sounds nice as does your playing..

you made a good point - incorporated into my practice routine.

I liked this format. I'm still very much a beginner but I get more instruction (and also less distraction) from these meta-lessons than some of the other more basic YOU HAVE TO TRY THIS SIMPLE TRICK type KZread lessons from other channels.

The Shaggs just called. you got the gig! :D

Well done ! Awesome lesson….

I love this Nate

As always its great to see a Master play! You are a funny dude to!

Great content dude, 🙏 so true

GREAT LESSON❤

Great video! Jeff Porcaro was the first drummer I remember talking about putting the click on the off-beat. He felt you were less likely to “follow” the click, which is true.

Merci, Nate pour le rappel à l’ordre 🙂 il y a longtemps que je suis convaincu de la véracité de ce que tu expliques. J’ai fait beaucoup de progrès en ce sens en suivant le “coaching course”. Mark Kelso propose une approche similaire. Continue à faire ce que tu fais 😎

i should do my exercise on the e-bass, learning harmonics and playing some stuff in different keys... now im watching how to be a serious drummer! i know how to set my priorities!

excellent video

I've coached a guitar player about the importance of subdivisions, will send the link to him. Good material 😁

Man I’ve been working on this on and off for 5+ years…you sound 🔥locking in at 160 damn!

I've been crashing myself through metronome work since my last recording - as I started practicing a new hand technique and didn't realize I started subconciously applying it at all tempos, though it's only supposed to happen at higher tempos. I work with 16th notes on the metronome - with all notes clicking - it leaves no room for pushing and pulling. I know at some point I'm going to have to get move away from it, so this lesson will absolute be a god-sent.

I uploaded a video about subdivision recently- specifically I tried indicating the subdivisions subtly with the kick drum. Often we use the hats or ride, ghost notes etc to indicate the subdivision but anytime we play anything smaller than quarter notes, subdivisions can be experienced.

Great lessons I need more Let’s get it crackin

Yes more like this!!

Amazing, greetings from Tampa Bay Florida.

This video fits me like a glove. These last few months I've been practicing that way and I can confirm there are improvements.

LOVE IT!!!! 💪😎👌👏👏👏

Thanks for this, Nate. The absolutely MOST challenging thing about 80/20 drumming stuff (for me, anyway) is the 16th note offbeat metronome practice. Try as I might, I always revert to the downbeat. This lesson gives this fool a way into the technique!! Also thanks for saying “it takes years” - because it does. Cheers!

@luceanbrown8264

4 ай бұрын

What would be useful is Nate number 1 step was showing to set the metronome at 16th note offbeat and not assume every watcher will know this

This is a good and interesting way to talk about the concept of subdividing. While it's all semantics, I come at it from the "empty space" perspective instead of the "filled space" perspective...if that makes sense. These days, everyone is so set on filling every gap with a note(s) that I feel we're overlooking the importance of silence or breathing room between notes. Again, an awareness of subdivision from either perspective leads to the same goal. I'm inclined to believe that feeling and listening to a space first is maybe a bit more eye-opening than filling a space with sound. To be completely candid, I just think that sitting out a half/quarter/eighth/sixteenth note can open your eye to just how much space there actually is AS YOU APPROACH THE TARGET BEAT...usually beat 1 of the next bar. When I get students to listen for that kind of stuff, you can see the light bulbs go on when they "see" how everyone tends to beat 1...or drag to beat 1 if the lick is beyond their capabilities. Anyhoo, this is a great topic, man. Good one!

This is excellent Nate! The new format fits your style quite well and still delivers your message in a clear and compelling way.

I wish I had met someone like you much earlier on in my journey.

I dug it!

amazing

Very good. I will subscribe now.

Excellent. It’s funny how you often explain things we all can feel but cannot articulate in words. Thanks so much.

I always felt like I had an advantage when I first started playing drums because of the years I spent playing guitar beforehand. Now I understand exactly why that is, I had put a lot of practice into lead guitar playing which also requires you to have a good grasp on subdivisions so when I got on the kit my mind already had that concept drilled into it.

Marvelous

Precission(?) and dinamics are the keys change my mind... So finding ways to develop those is crutial, yo, good vid dude

I call it time travel. The faster you play and practice, the easier it is to focus on the beats you want to play. It gives you time to choose your lick and opens a world of improvisations for you.

This training method really is one of the greatest excercises that has transformed my drumming into a better direction. Still loong way to go, but its a great exercise.

@luceanbrown8264

4 ай бұрын

How explain how you do the exercise and how it transformed your playing?

@Attack-fb5rj

4 ай бұрын

@@luceanbrown8264 I started to play with the offset klick, and my playing has just been going tighter since that. simply but

Thanks I am off to practice this on the bass guitar

Absolutely, Nate. I believe proper spacing of subdivisions will improve one's ability to play and keep good tempo, and vice versa. Cutting one's teeth playing along with what most would consider simple songs, can go along way. Growing up an AC/DC fan, cut my teeth playing along with Phil Rudd. I knew it was *easy*, but keeping locked with him was tougher than it seemed, at first. Definitely paid off once I moved on to more technically challenging music.. 👍😗

i always start going down these paths and end up in completely different musical destinations (playing fours with my hands and threes - or sixes - with my feet) lol but i'm learning

Did you get a new camera? The video looks amazing! Been using your clickideas almost always since I came across your Channel. Btw. Back in the old days you Hader this pdf called the roadmap with a beatconcept you called heuristic beat. Do you still have a notation for this one?

Thank you so much for posting this! I've heard about using the gap click before, but it was hard, and I never really got it or understood what it was doing for me. Been working on it the past few days with only offset 8ths, and something about it has cracked my brain wide open. It makes sense all of a sudden. There's so much space between the downbeats that it's easy to be sloppy without realizing it as long as you hit the downbeat. Having the landmarks halfway between the downbeats forces you to be more precise. The beauty in drumming is what happens in the space between the downbeats. I can't wait to get to 16ths and really lock in on the details. Thanks again!

There is nothing funnier than watching you trying to play with crappy sub-divsion. Nice vid!

very fun and great to see how this channel has just grown and grown by the time i’ve been playing the drums

I'd like to see a video on more of a "Should I dance or not?" concept. More of a grey area, like is it interesting or boring.

I was allowed to play at volume 1 recently. P=1 volume was the default level the entire gig. Maybe the band reached volume 5 about 5 total minutes. So relaxed and comfortable…thanks guitar player..

Nate what metronome are you using that allows you to have a clear downbeat then offbeats for the 16ths and 8ths? (As opposed to just shifting where you hear the downbeat with your mind if that makes sense) This is something I’ve been working on a few years now and it would be cool if there’s a metronome that allows even more complex variations of which offbeats are heard. By the way you’re killing it with the improvisation! Your longer phrasing and overall sound have skyrocketed in these years I’ve been enjoying your channel!

@8020drummer

4 ай бұрын

I just use 8ths then hear them as 16th offbeats

Dang, shots fired @ Tim Van Delft

@8020drummer

4 ай бұрын

Shots fired? How? Or are you using that ironically

Nice 🤙 I feel like a beginner again 🤣

I took some lessons with Jacob Evans at some point and he stressed on the importance of first identifying at which tempo your perception of the 16th off beat is failing. He asked me to take a relatively low tempo (like 60bpm) and make the metronome play 8th notes and then try to "sing" the 16th off beat. If it was too fast for me, slowing down and if it was too easy, speed up until I would reach the point where I would start to feel it was beginning to fail. That tempo would be my base line to start working on it and then increase by 5bpm every week. And I think it's brilliant because it kind of stressed the psychological side of it without involving the coordination side of the instrument to figure out how to start. It also allowed me to eliminate that intermediate step of trying to hear those upbeat. Just my 2 cents.

@8020drummer

4 ай бұрын

yea APB. Jacob and I coached a program together for most of 2022. I continue to think he's one of the best teachers.

One of the reasons i follow your channel is it has given me the tools to identify what it is that i don't like about my drumming and, more importantly, what i can try to do about it.

This is great stuff. I need a better system for working on this. IDK if you'll agree but another maybe less focused way to hone that perception is to listen to, record yourself, and play along to tracks with the drums of someone who has good subdivision time. that way when you flam on their hits you know you're off. you can also listen back and hear where it doesn't feel right.

@8020drummer

4 ай бұрын

Yes that’s also good

Nate: Can you share what you are using for your metronome program? Love your stuff!

@8020drummer

3 ай бұрын

Free iPhone app called tempo

I want to be a session drummer in studio sessions pop/rock hit song and so on. What do you find important? Is subdivisions a must then?

I would like to have a copy of this sub division lesson Thanks

A very counter-intuitive tip for better time is to hold your sticks a bit tighter, because once you fully master how to hold the sticks properly, the looseness of the sticks can make the link between your hands and the thing you are hitting a bit weaker.

@8020drummer

4 ай бұрын

I can't tell if you're trolling

🥁🔥🥁💜

Lines on a tape measure. I call it a drummers CLOCK. Grebb is Really Good at this.

What am I programming the metronome to to do this? Maybe it’s just the app I’m using but mine keeps accenting the first off beat rather than that marker at 1 he seems to have programmed in, so mines just glorified 8th notes. Is there a better app or am I missing something

Great! When “improvising” around the drums, do you follow a certain sticking in your mind and just play it on different subdivisions with accents here and there

@8020drummer

4 ай бұрын

very deep question. When I improvise I don't "think" at all. I just kind of "hear" phrases, in much the same way that when you speak you're not thinking "verb, preposition", you're just making thoughts. I've worked for decades to make the patterns and sticking ingrained so I don't have to think about them. What I often recommend to beginners is that they start improvising with *simple* ideas, while they're working on those stickings and combos. (There are also some ways to "half improvise" with stickings you're learning, like making combinations between two). Over the years, the stickings should start to come out subconsciously without you having to think about it.

Thanks for the knowledge Nate. I wanted to ask, where do you feel the 1 when playing stuff like that. Do you feel the 1 on the groove you play and the metronome displaced, or the metronome on the 1 and the groove displaced?

@8020drummer

4 ай бұрын

the former, but I think (?) I made that clear in the video (?) but maybe not...

@ioannisagriodimos9054

4 ай бұрын

@@8020drummer Thanks you!

good stuff mate

You all have your fun at 140-160 bpm. I’ll be over here struggling with 50 bpm.

Just keep it funky.

what's a good metronome for this? Is there a good one for IOS ( apple devices)?

What metronome app do you use?

13:28 did you eclipse the click damn

Any tips on how to set up the accents on a metronome to facilitate this sort of practice? I can’t seem to get accents on off beats at all using the metronomes I have…

@8020drummer

4 ай бұрын

yup. Just put them on downbeats or 8th notes, and hear them as 8th or 16th offbeats ;)

this is the only thing im good at

The Kettle and Fire T shirt is apropos seeing how most drummers work in the food service industry...

@8020drummer

4 ай бұрын

Their broth is really good

Nate, thanks for the study guide. I have one suggestion to make it even better. Include a transcript or a more specific example of what to practice. It's pretty much impossible to capture what Nate Smith, Ash Sloan or Dana Hawkins are playing. are playing. As it is, the study guide doesn't provide anymore information than your video does.

Can u get a metronome on an android phone somehow?

wow, only great artists can imitate bad performing so precise.. thanks, that was very beneficial!

I’m using the iPhone metronome app from Soundbrenner and having a hard time getting it to play a 16th note offbeat.. any advice? Is it just my ears?

@8020drummer

4 ай бұрын

Put it on 8ths and hear it as 16th offbeats 😉

6:40 save your time!

What band is the prog jazz? "Arthur with t grime" is what I'm hearing... help me out!

@8020drummer

4 ай бұрын

Tigran

why accent the first of every four metroneome beats?

The link doesn’t work for me

Speaking of evolution them ears are coming along dawg! #realmeangrapple #wecantellifwewouldbeatyouupbylookingatyourears lol crazy hashtags I know. Idk if you care or not but head gear is also a good idea those AirPods may not fit forever lol

As soon as he played kaytranada I subscribed

proof ud need God to pull a pat martino on you to sound bad when ur this good 😂

Nate serious question. Can you dance? Lovely vid

@8020drummer

4 ай бұрын

Serious answer. Yes.

yeah I practice to a click.....but not like this. watta eye AND ear opener . THX Nate!

Yeah, I started on this shit thank you , but it's seems a bit difficult you, and a serious amount of practicingsomething

@8020drummer

4 ай бұрын

I mean....🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

162 bpm 16th off? I’m still struggling with 110 🥺

@erikhenze2339

4 ай бұрын

I’ve started noticing too that if I practice macro time at a given bpm first (say, 4th quarter only at 110bpm for 10min) that actually makes the 110 16th offs go a lot better because a lot of times I can hear the subdivisions fine but I’m speeding up or slowing down when things get complicated

!00%👍