How valuable is Steph Curry without elite 3-point shooting? | Enhanced podcast

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Stephen Curry is in one of the worst shooting slumps of his career. How much does it hurt is offensive value as a player? What has his impact looked like during the slump since he attempted to break Ray Allen's all-time 3-point record in December. Is this is the first time he's had a slump like this? In this segment from the Thinking Basketball podcast, Ben and Cody discuss Curry's impact on the game beyond scoring and the numbers before and after his slump.
Video on Curry in college being doubled the entire game: • The time Steph Curry w...
Full episode: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
Support at Patreon: / thinkingbasketball
Book: www.amazon.com/Thinking-Baske...
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Website: www.backpicks.com
Twitter: @elgee35
Ben Taylor is the author of Thinking Basketball, a Nylon Calculus contributor, creator of the Backpicks Top 40 series & host of the Thinking Basketball podcast.
Stats courtesy:
www.pbpstats.com @bballport
www.basketball-reference.com
stats.nba.com
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Footage in this video is owned by the NBA and its partners. It is intended for critique and education.
#ThinkingBasketball

Пікірлер: 426

  • @patsayjack402
    @patsayjack4022 жыл бұрын

    Steph's first game after this video: 40/5/9 on 13-23 fg 7-14 3pfg

  • @Josh-oc3lf
    @Josh-oc3lf2 жыл бұрын

    Just imagine if an nba team tried that strategy, “Hey lets dare steph to shoot! Get rid of all his gravity”. Lol

  • @Aurinna

    @Aurinna

    2 жыл бұрын

    Hack-a-Steph lol

  • @TElias5

    @TElias5

    2 жыл бұрын

    lmaoo exactly they can never stop doubling him until he dies

  • @slimshiii4973

    @slimshiii4973

    2 жыл бұрын

    No coach will ever hack a steph. Steph is the best FT shooter in nba history.. you wanna send a career 91% FT shooter to the line? Also leave him open and see him get in rhythm and then there is nothing u can do afterwards

  • @javigar133

    @javigar133

    2 жыл бұрын

    What would happen? He can't hit the ocean...

  • @HomoErectus311

    @HomoErectus311

    2 жыл бұрын

    Life is tough without Kevin Durant.

  • @Millipede666
    @Millipede6662 жыл бұрын

    No team wants to try guarding Steph differently because they are afraid that will be the game where his slump ends. Im sure that would be a really ugly game for the defense.

  • @marcananmh

    @marcananmh

    2 жыл бұрын

    What would that matter if you are making your team lose based off of respect for him anyway. If anything every coach should play him differently until he is out of the slump

  • @mohamedbilal9527

    @mohamedbilal9527

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@marcananmh Problem is, Curry is a player who can easilly get hot if he makes a couple of shots. So once u leave him open and u give him that room to score a couple of 3's it will be probably 2 late 2 guard him at that point.

  • @Millipede666

    @Millipede666

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@marcananmh Yeah youre are certainly correct but there is something visceral about steph dropping 50 and going 10 for 13 from 3 ... it feels a lot worse than if you just lost by 7 in an unremarkable game in mid February.

  • @marcananmh

    @marcananmh

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@Millipede666 that's only true from a fans point of view. As a coach, if the other teams super star, once in a generation player, drops 50 on you i think you just live with that. As a coach id rather it take some unbelievable performance to beat me, than to lose a game in which Steph scores 12 but you decided to stick to him anyway

  • @marcananmh

    @marcananmh

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@mohamedbilal9527 if he starts heating up you can just switch back to guarding him like normal. I don't get the problem

  • @cwehden
    @cwehden2 жыл бұрын

    Steph's mechanics have always been very 'flexible' though he can shoot with perfect mechanics he often won't. This works in his favour because he can get up shots that most people can't, however the down side is that it can lead to larger slumps because the muscle memory of the shot has greater variance, it's inherently less stable. Klay is a great example of the opposite of this his mechanics are less flexible, he has a very low variance shot similar to Ray Allen's mechanics, more traditional. Part of the Curry revolution is finding a balance between flexible mechanics and stable mechanics, I think currently he's dealing with this problem and also you can see him focusing to much on the shots going in or not rather than working on process first simple clean mechanics and letting the results come as a natural result.

  • @thetryhard8416

    @thetryhard8416

    2 жыл бұрын

    I picked up some of this while watching the video, almost like if he rushes the shot 0.1 or 0.2 seconds too early without establishing his body or posture as he should, but idk, i'm just a regular fan haha

  • @gavinkonowalec4910

    @gavinkonowalec4910

    2 жыл бұрын

    Very good take!

  • @Jeremy_Meeks

    @Jeremy_Meeks

    2 жыл бұрын

    A flexible shot is way superior than a stable shot anyway. Kobe and MJ had flexible shots which allowed them to make tougher shots. Stable shots are too robotic and usually Needs a "perfect environment " to even attempt a shot. The cieling for greatness is far higher with a flexible shot. I learned this early as a kid experimenting myself. But everything you said is true

  • @ollytropics1735

    @ollytropics1735

    2 жыл бұрын

    I think it's more off the court problems

  • @Watermelon_Man

    @Watermelon_Man

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@Jeremy_Meeks I wouldn’t necessarily one is absolutely superior to the other. It just depends on the play style.

  • @WhelmedButReady
    @WhelmedButReady2 жыл бұрын

    Call me crazy if you want. But I am still wholly unfazed by Steph's career worst shooting slump. Not only are the Warriors still winning games, but also that's the beauty of Steph as a player. His effect isn't necessarily based on the volume of numbers he'll put up, but rather the shear aspect of knowing that he can. Meaning, his gravity still leaves teammates wide open. He's also the greatest off-ball player ever. So he barely needs to ball in his hands to positively effect the offense for his teammates. Plus, this is the regular season we're talking about and he's lost his PG in Draymond. By the time the postseason starts he'll be back in form IMO.

  • @AhseemCarter

    @AhseemCarter

    2 жыл бұрын

    Same, I think his numbers will pick back up after the all star break

  • @gracelandtoo6240

    @gracelandtoo6240

    2 жыл бұрын

    imagine him making like 15 threes and getting the All-Star MVP, that would be a phenomenanl way to end a slump

  • @KimWe-a-xler

    @KimWe-a-xler

    2 жыл бұрын

    Greatest off-ball player, sound right to me man. Good point.

  • @fkcct6967

    @fkcct6967

    2 жыл бұрын

    i dont care about it for team success but people saying he should be an all star starter or mvp candidate in THIS season are blind

  • @Iloveragatha

    @Iloveragatha

    2 жыл бұрын

    No team will dare to leave him wide open even if he is in the worst shooting efficiency of his career.. Unless this become his normal percentage in 3 consecutive years, that is Steph, falling off due to age... and that is the only time I think coaches will be comfortable enough to say ok, lets change our defensive rules on Steph

  • @yashsolanki589
    @yashsolanki5892 жыл бұрын

    Honestly, I'm more interested in seeing which coach takes the leap of faith and just decides not to double team. Also, the drop off has been very weird to see, its not like how players normally regress, losing speed and making poor decisions, he showed that he can still tear down defenses end of last year and start of this year, its just that his efficiency fell off a cliff after the 3 point record started flooding the news.

  • @lnd1998

    @lnd1998

    2 жыл бұрын

    It’s also the fact that he’s finishing horribly at the rim. I think that really is what’s causing this. Steph was an ELITE finisher in his prime and so he could use the threat of a drive to get off his 3’s which were still heavily contested almost always but probably less so than now

  • @Geassmaster55

    @Geassmaster55

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@lnd1998 not true tho, he's also missing wide open jumpers that he'd normally make I'd understand if it was a physical decline but watching the games and going on cleaningtheglass he's just missing a lot of open 3's, he's 20% from 3 this season when left wide open and 38% when the defender is 2 feet away None of this is because of physical regression

  • @ghatesspeech

    @ghatesspeech

    2 жыл бұрын

    It’s a mental thing Ayesha probably throwing off his game getting into his head

  • @Van_ax

    @Van_ax

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@Geassmaster55 it’s physical regression. He can’t take defenders clean off the dribble and he can’t finish inside

  • @VicDealio

    @VicDealio

    2 жыл бұрын

    It's often not even that he's being intentionally double teamed these days. The Warriors just run a bunch of screens, and when, Steph is involved, he's often coming out with an accidental double team, since neither defender wanted to be the one who left him open. The double-team doesn't last long, but, especially with the Warriors' pace, it's typically enough for a defensive breakdown.

  • @notmytruthTHEtruth
    @notmytruthTHEtruth2 жыл бұрын

    This is so weird. Second time I got a notification of yours while watching one of your videos. Keep up the good work.

  • @BlueHundred1
    @BlueHundred12 жыл бұрын

    This is a great way of plugging the pod. Also, I love the visual additions with gameplay and statistics. It really enhances the segments from the pod

  • @MisterBrown94
    @MisterBrown942 жыл бұрын

    I feel like he's been paying a "fatigue tax" lately. After all, playing with that intensity at his age must be draining at this point. But I also feel like he's embracing it, given that his team is doing damage despite his poorer shooting: he knows he can't play like the first months until the playoffs and it seems to me he's trying to do some load management while still exploiting his huge gravity on the court. I guess we'll se in the playoffs if this is true, but great work as always, Ben!

  • @wochaoainigejiba1211
    @wochaoainigejiba12112 жыл бұрын

    Would love to see a "How good was Scottie Pippen actually" video

  • @nathanielbrill1523

    @nathanielbrill1523

    2 жыл бұрын

    Yes! It can be hard to get it straight in my head!

  • @dusk6159

    @dusk6159

    2 жыл бұрын

    People like Pippen, Lebron and a few others, so people doing it all in the very sense of the word and with insane consistency, are just a sea of body of work. No wonder why the Lebron peak video was so long and enjoyable.

  • @t4d0W

    @t4d0W

    2 жыл бұрын

    Dude defined a player archetype that would persist years after his great career. One that would help anchor defenses at the perimeter.

  • @calvin1508

    @calvin1508

    2 жыл бұрын

    This isn’t Johnny Arnett, check his channel for that video

  • @Chillboyhaad

    @Chillboyhaad

    2 жыл бұрын

    Pippen is easily the most overrated player in league history. Just watch Bruce Blitz videos on him.

  • @pariketthakkar2687
    @pariketthakkar26872 жыл бұрын

    Bro you're a genius man. Love how you interpret the game, like damn the level of detail you bring to this. Taking data to a whole new level of analysis.

  • @Oppenheimer1967

    @Oppenheimer1967

    2 жыл бұрын

    👌

  • @Pryved
    @Pryved2 жыл бұрын

    Steph going off on somebody is simply incredible, it usually takes a burst of 3/4 minutes where you can feel the building coming down on you. He could shoot 0/10 from the 3 for the next 10 games and the opposing defense would still play him the same way, just the thought of him being capable of closing the game in such a short stretch is more than enough for the opposing team to stick with the same defensive plan.

  • @jprunsfunny
    @jprunsfunny2 жыл бұрын

    Every time one of these "what's going on with Steph?" type pods drops, Steph has a good night shooting. Keep em coming! :)

  • @charcoal5572
    @charcoal55722 жыл бұрын

    Curry really watched this and said: “hold my beer”

  • @peterjazii6925
    @peterjazii69252 жыл бұрын

    I think it’s just mid season fatigue. He absolutely went nuclear at the start of the season. I expect he’ll be back at end and at playoffs

  • @Tech-cy9yo

    @Tech-cy9yo

    2 жыл бұрын

    He’s declining

  • @grigoriikulikov2532

    @grigoriikulikov2532

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@Tech-cy9yo thanks youtube pro, watch last game btw

  • @reidb6327

    @reidb6327

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@Tech-cy9yo Kevin Durant will never play again

  • @homomagii

    @homomagii

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@Tech-cy9yo he’s not declining it’s just his style of play eventually will tire him out + he’s older. He’s still quick but doesn’t seem as quick before you know. But steph can hit shots still I don’t know why I get a feeling that he doesn’t try cause when it was fourth quarter he started making threes same for klay but idk I’m not curry I’m not in his mind. Even if he is on a decline championships are the only thing that’s on his mind so 🤷‍♂️

  • @landonr.536

    @landonr.536

    2 жыл бұрын

    I'm waiting for after the all-star break, I feel he will go on an April-esque run. I feel he's a bit drained right now.

  • @priyankandatta5644
    @priyankandatta56442 жыл бұрын

    in the all star game we got to know what happens if you dont guard steph even when he is in a slump. he makes 16 threes with 59% shooting.

  • @zeeee985
    @zeeee9852 жыл бұрын

    Amazing video bro 🙌🏽

  • @gavinkonowalec4910
    @gavinkonowalec49102 жыл бұрын

    Great vid, never seem to disagree with your takes! Keep up the good work

  • @ChrisFrancisque
    @ChrisFrancisque2 жыл бұрын

    Please do an updated player profile on lamelo

  • @jacksondowdle5217
    @jacksondowdle52172 жыл бұрын

    You guys are a great podcast duo. Keep it up Ben!

  • @marcusangelo6775
    @marcusangelo67752 жыл бұрын

    channel needs more support very underrated

  • @wyattfriend7360
    @wyattfriend73602 жыл бұрын

    It’s a treat to watch your videos my guy

  • @RobinKwonSooHan
    @RobinKwonSooHan2 жыл бұрын

    Just started listening to your podcast with episodes 1 and 2...as always, great content. As I was listening to these first episodes, I was suprised that some names didn't pop up in the conversation. For example, Larry Bird, who is known as a great scorer. There was also Kyrie Irving who is as prolific around the basket as anyone whose played the game. I am wondering where these names would fit into the best scorers. One big but pleasant surprise was Reggie Miller (and an honorable mention to Ray Allen). I think these two often get forgotten about because as you alluded to, they are perceived as 'catch and shoot' scorers, which doesn't reflect the amount of work they have to do to actually be in a position to catch and shoot (not to mention they were often much more than this).

  • @ggsimmonds1
    @ggsimmonds12 жыл бұрын

    Its not much of a surprise because teams are still playing him the same way. The real question is what happens when/if some team decides to not play him any differently

  • @Hendrix.Robinson
    @Hendrix.Robinson2 жыл бұрын

    I just love it when these basketball geeks, geek out. ☺️👏🏾👏🏾🔥🔥 More of this!

  • @elninonavid6437
    @elninonavid64372 жыл бұрын

    I don’t think this necessarily proves that the gravity is more important than his shooting, it’s just that he has such a history of good shooting defenses still respect his outside shot.

  • @t4d0W

    @t4d0W

    2 жыл бұрын

    Exactly. As much as teams can choose 'not' to respect this trend, its not like they have the personnel to do so either and risk screwing around and finding out that he dumps like 20+ in a quarter to get his team to come back and win. Its easy for many of us non-athletes to say 'buck the trend' but for the pros out there playing night in and out and having to do some game planning, the fear is real.

  • @hmp01
    @hmp012 жыл бұрын

    I love that you look exactly how you sound. A class act!

  • @ryandigiovanni2724
    @ryandigiovanni27242 жыл бұрын

    nobody is talking about how the lack of Draymond Green's facilitating is contributing to this slump because he has to work harder for his shots on the dribble with less catch and shoot making his off ball movement less effective

  • @vlada

    @vlada

    2 жыл бұрын

    Embid is missing Simmons, Bucks have 6th most lost games to injury, Joker's team lost 3rd most including Jamal & MPJ, Durant was flying without Kyrie and a different Harden. Everyone knows about Klay & Greene. No one in the MVP battle is spared.

  • @EtiandroRosa
    @EtiandroRosa2 жыл бұрын

    Thank you for your collab on the @nba channel

  • @vlada
    @vlada2 жыл бұрын

    Just signed up to the podcast feed and it's not just the audio feed of these videos: Its extra & different content. I got 95 podcasts to catch up to.

  • @CoryZdaman1
    @CoryZdaman12 жыл бұрын

    During the summer, could you do a detailed look into Ben Wallace's defensive impact? I'd love to see that.

  • @GustavoSilva-ny8jc
    @GustavoSilva-ny8jc2 жыл бұрын

    5:04 That was awesome!!!!👏👏, incredible pass.

  • @szilardoberritter4135
    @szilardoberritter41352 жыл бұрын

    do you have video background for all of your podcast episodes? if yes where can we watch the full episode with video?

  • @denzdc03
    @denzdc032 жыл бұрын

    And now he goes off earlier with 40 pts hehe.

  • @joshb.1118
    @joshb.11182 жыл бұрын

    I do think the NBA needs to phase out antiquated stats. The Curry assist - the gravity that leaves teammates open - is extremely valuable, but doesn't show up on the stats.

  • @gracelandtoo6240

    @gracelandtoo6240

    2 жыл бұрын

    Well none of the stats the NBA records have become meaningless, it's just that there's so much stuff happening in the game now that's not showing up in the basic stat sheet, but that's not by fault of the old stats.

  • @fhjunior6183
    @fhjunior61832 жыл бұрын

    Thanks for the vid

  • @rich3637
    @rich36372 жыл бұрын

    Curry is a superstar. The team is always going to be better with him on the court and he’s always going to be valuable. The issue is relative to the other top 5 players he’s not playing like a top 5 player.

  • @philipowusu8075
    @philipowusu8075 Жыл бұрын

    Fantastic play and amazing stuff

  • @MindfulAttraction
    @MindfulAttraction2 жыл бұрын

    Ben the goat is back!

  • @ulovil
    @ulovil2 жыл бұрын

    having known how he played at Houston last night (40pts, +18, 3pts-=50%)... it seems he watched this video carefully

  • @ChocolateMilkCultLeader
    @ChocolateMilkCultLeader2 жыл бұрын

    The best channel on KZread for KZread

  • @robbysuttman
    @robbysuttman2 жыл бұрын

    on the day this was posted, had 40 points shooting 72% eFG on 23 attempts and 7/14 from 3 against houston. maybe they saw this and decided to lay off a few double teams?

  • @ArmandTheBlackRevolutionary
    @ArmandTheBlackRevolutionary2 жыл бұрын

    Ive seen this before in 2017. KD had a mid-season injury and Curry couldnt buy one. We lost 2 or 3 in a row but then we figured it out. We went maybe 7-2 in that stretch before Curry found his touch again and took it out at home on the Bucks.

  • @cyberft

    @cyberft

    2 жыл бұрын

    It’s been 2 months, not a couple of weeks.

  • @janoycresnova9156

    @janoycresnova9156

    2 жыл бұрын

    You keep on saying "we". Who's "we"? You're on the Warriors?

  • @cyberft

    @cyberft

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@janoycresnova9156 you’re gonna play stupid?? 🤡

  • @IagoVital

    @IagoVital

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@cyberft 1 month though

  • @daonlygoat

    @daonlygoat

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@IagoVital no it's been since late November...two months.

  • @Talisk3r
    @Talisk3r2 жыл бұрын

    I would love the Nylon Calculus article you mention at 6:00. What is it called?

  • @JUNNY923
    @JUNNY9232 жыл бұрын

    0:21 That edit right there alone deserves an emmy

  • @erikcouvret
    @erikcouvret2 жыл бұрын

    Great analyzes about Steph. Nobody knows if Steph's drop on shooting is temporary ! Or what the reason is. I have a feeling that over the years the Warriors created some sort of collective intelligence. Even against teams that are stronger and taller and have more individual class they will have answers most of the time and defend well and find the open man on offense. Not everything depends on Steph. You can see the 'new' players develop and get smarter! I hope that Draymond Green recovers soon and the splash brothers find their rhythm. They really understand the routines the best and have experienced eyes and will make every other player in the team excel!

  • @Arsenal.13
    @Arsenal.132 жыл бұрын

    It would be great if the entire podcasts were uploaded on here in a playlist or second channel even better if they have video.

  • @randomperson2540
    @randomperson25402 жыл бұрын

    This is thinking basketball

  • @ASURAN24
    @ASURAN242 жыл бұрын

    It is an interesting podcast. I think JC is experiencing the same type of slump this season

  • @HomoErectus311
    @HomoErectus3112 жыл бұрын

    Great vid. You should do a video on Shaq’s gravity in the 2006 Finals

  • @kingofthenoobs
    @kingofthenoobs2 жыл бұрын

    That 20g rolling 3pt% graph is neat

  • @maysycrazy
    @maysycrazy2 жыл бұрын

    Great video

  • @colby8106
    @colby81062 жыл бұрын

    Post more of these pods

  • @Hoops_Fan
    @Hoops_Fan2 жыл бұрын

    I can see teams daring a star player in a slump to shoot if the player in question is not a particularly good shooter. They just won't do it with Steph. In a shooting slump, he might still sink your defence with high volume three point makes.

  • @dave1123
    @dave11232 жыл бұрын

    The thing is, if teams decide to loosen the defense on Curry, it might trigger the end of the Shooting slump... If I am a coach, I would still pound him with defense so that he will not get out of the slump.. But then again he is Curry and I think the slump will end either after All Star or once Dray returns

  • @austingreen1274
    @austingreen12742 жыл бұрын

    That zoom on the dog though

  • @mrgreen3629
    @mrgreen36292 жыл бұрын

    You gotta do a video of how important the Warriors are when Green is in the court.

  • @rutadimo7760
    @rutadimo7760 Жыл бұрын

    Very interesting video

  • @GustavoSilva-ny8jc
    @GustavoSilva-ny8jc2 жыл бұрын

    0:56 That was badass (and kinda crazy if you think about), he didn't even needed to look behind. That's what happen when you atecipate so much that you can't what's in front of you (the true game is on the mind)

  • @dennischacko499
    @dennischacko4992 жыл бұрын

    I'd also be interested to see how it works out if it excludes the time Draymond was also out

  • @dunmatta2670
    @dunmatta26702 жыл бұрын

    Looking at his misses, a lot of them are just bricks. PG went through a similar slump and I think it’s the old adage of him thinking about his shot too much.

  • @EdwardElfigo

    @EdwardElfigo

    2 жыл бұрын

    Wilson ball don’t help, the entire league’s efficiency has gone down by a relatively considerable amount, after it had been trending upwards for the past 20 years.

  • @kingofthenoobs

    @kingofthenoobs

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@EdwardElfigo Curry started hot I don't think it's the ball

  • @landlocked_lifts332
    @landlocked_lifts3322 жыл бұрын

    I'm saving this for later

  • @coledorillo6685
    @coledorillo66852 жыл бұрын

    It’d be a really weird day when teams decide to leave curry open because he’s experienced some shooting woes. 😂😂

  • @gedrictudio
    @gedrictudio2 жыл бұрын

    This just screams how valuable Steph Curry is to the Warriors' system, regardless of his shooting output, at the same time, how valuable it is that there are players on the Warriors that can make shots when given the opportunity to do so.

  • @SamMartinPeakPerformance

    @SamMartinPeakPerformance

    2 жыл бұрын

    truth right there man

  • @kaun3091
    @kaun30912 жыл бұрын

    fire topic

  • @aaronpeters6209
    @aaronpeters62092 жыл бұрын

    Overall the difference doesn't matter when you have a good team, which the warriors tend to have most years which is why they can still go 18-10 during his slump vs 19-3 before. But, in close games and in the playoffs against better competition. Those 3-5 pts should become more important and noticeable. There's also 14% TS difference between wins vs losses. Don't know this compares to the rest of the league, probably not much. However, if you shoot alot of 3's then would this mean greater variance in game to game shooting performance. Therefore, larger difference in TS% for Wins & losses?

  • @andylai6989

    @andylai6989

    2 жыл бұрын

    I agree, I'd love to see what the variance looks like with those on/off numbers. Over the regular season that variance gets smoothed out, which is why losing a game to the G League pacers where Steph goes 0/x in OT doesn't really matter all that much. But in a 7 game win or go home series, the 7% difference in TS is huge. It's not going to be smoothed out. Two extra missed shots per game that Steph "normally" makes could easily be the difference between say winning in 5 or losing in 7.

  • @joco8587
    @joco8587 Жыл бұрын

    And in the first few games of the 2022 nba finals, the celtics did a drop coverage on steph and he absolutely torched them. 😂

  • @alasdairmacdonald9838
    @alasdairmacdonald98382 жыл бұрын

    An Article in the Atheltic seemed to pin his shooting woes down to mechanical problems in his shot to do with the timing of his foot work. This is apparently quite noticeably effecting the power he's able to generate on his shot. As a result many of his misses are either short or off center as he tried to make up the power with more of a flick in the wrist. I'm no expert and time will tell but I imagine it's probably a mix of many things. For now it doesn't much matter as long as he continues to make the smart play for the team more often than not and not try and force too many of his own shots. I think the finishing inside is his biggest issue. Personally I think it's partly the new foul rules. He's never been good at drawing fouls mostly because he seems to prefer trying to protect his body when taking contact rather than selling the hit. Now teams can be even more physical and even with his strongest frame of his career he just isn't big enough to bulldoze his way into and through the paint. So yeah he can get to the rim but finishing is much harder. I think taking more mid range jump shots and floaters would help him myself.

  • @Oppenheimer1967
    @Oppenheimer19672 жыл бұрын

    He’s outside the top 5 in mvp ranking now

  • @jhdivina
    @jhdivina2 жыл бұрын

    I think a part of why defenses aren't letting up on steph is teams are afraid that he would break his slump against them. Curry has been at the top for too long that teams don't want him and the warriors to regain their throne. Hence why you see teams trying harder when facing the warriors and defending curry.

  • @SpeakHerMusic
    @SpeakHerMusic2 жыл бұрын

    I literally was just breaking this down to someone on Twitter. Needless to say they couldn't comprehend it

  • @SoloPerICommenti
    @SoloPerICommenti2 жыл бұрын

    there's too much noise if you look at it that way, I believe. Curry scoring those extra 3-4 points with the same usage has an impact on the offensive rating, at least 5-6 points when he's on the court. The rest can be his gravity and creation.

  • @ThinkingBasketball

    @ThinkingBasketball

    2 жыл бұрын

    Yup, that's roughly how I see it.

  • @Kumingaaa
    @Kumingaaa2 жыл бұрын

    this the first time I've ever seen Ben ngl

  • @mycheeks12
    @mycheeks122 жыл бұрын

    Those were good points especially on the defense is still not letting up on him despite just scoring just 15 points or 20 points.. and even though curry isn't shooting well, his +/- is still high because he impacts the game somewhere else (passing, defense, rebounds). That's a sign of an elite player knowing how to adjust despite his strengths are turning into his weaknesses right now, he's still looking for other ways to impact the game.. And they're still winning as well, what else can you ask from this guy?

  • @dusk6159

    @dusk6159

    2 жыл бұрын

    Ask him to not let down this absolute machine of team that, even without Curry, Klay and especially Draymond, are still great. Poole, Looney, Wiggins, Toscano, GP2, Bjelica, Porter, Iguodala etc absolutely deserve better and deserve Steph to be held accountable.

  • @aaronpeters6209
    @aaronpeters62092 жыл бұрын

    How much time would Curry be off the court with Draymond on? and vice versa? The similar drop with Curry off the court doesn't compute in my mind. Have teams found a formula to get better results against warriors since december started? How does the Warriors SOS compare pre slump vs post slump?

  • @evasteenson6883
    @evasteenson6883 Жыл бұрын

    Very nice 👍🏻

  • @davidadeyemi9466
    @davidadeyemi94662 жыл бұрын

    This reminds me of Luka doncic. First his 3pt is 3% below avg. despite this teams still respect and guard him like an elite shooter. Its the appearance of being an elite shooter that mattera

  • @eh-sama7760
    @eh-sama77602 жыл бұрын

    I think the better way to think about this is that he has a shooting efficiency only slightly below league average DESPITE the anti-Curry defenses put on him and DESPITE him carrying the bulk of the Warriors offensive load.

  • @pipoloi1999
    @pipoloi19992 жыл бұрын

    Gotta leave a like for zooming in on the dog

  • @Chronz
    @Chronz2 жыл бұрын

    This tells me that +/- analysis has always been the way we should approach quantifying individual impact. Yes it's imperfect but that's every stat. This may not be news to nba nerds but the general public is very hesitant to accepting +/- than say PER.

  • @banananarwhals2016

    @banananarwhals2016

    2 жыл бұрын

    There's a lot of noise in +/-. For example, Dennis Rodman had a larger +/- than Micheal Jordan. When someone comes off, there's plently of reasons for that. Injuries, blowouts, rest. Who replaces them? Do they have quality players to keep up the scoring/playmaking/defensive load? Raw +/- isn't a great indicator of value in many cases.

  • @Chronz

    @Chronz

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@banananarwhals2016 disagree, it's a far better indicator than you seem to think. No stat is perfect, and i never said raw +/-, I said +/- analysis.

  • @banananarwhals2016

    @banananarwhals2016

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@Chronz, adjusted plus minus is derived from raw plus minus. Its still has many of the same flaws, just not as noticable. Look up Nick Collison adjusted plus minus.

  • @Chronz

    @Chronz

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@banananarwhals2016 +/- based analysis isn't limited to adjusted +/- and of course it's derived from it lol. Again, every stat is imperfect, this is still a far greater indicator than you seem to think.

  • @banananarwhals2016

    @banananarwhals2016

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@Chronz, they change too dramatically from year to year to be treated as a one number metric. Any analysis will suffer from the same issues as raw +/-, because it is derived from it. When Jamario Moon has a higher adjusted plus minus than Steve Nash in 2007, something's wrong, Steve Nash is more valuable.

  • @nikeswooshca4625
    @nikeswooshca46252 жыл бұрын

    For more clear information; teams would rather leave KD a 35% career 3pt shooter and Klay who’s a 41% 3pt shooter wide open over even letting Steph take the ball past half court. He doesn’t even have to touch the ball in a game to have an impact. Let alone his elite driving abilities and handles.

  • @ZockaRocka
    @ZockaRocka2 жыл бұрын

    The reason for the Net Rtg in my eyes ist just: The way how defenses approach a game vs the Warriors hasnt changed. This will change drastically in the playoffs if curry shoots like this. After Game 1 or 2 the oppoonent will try switching things up.

  • @ZockaRocka

    @ZockaRocka

    2 жыл бұрын

    And the reason why I and most ppl think the Suns will make the finals, is Mikal Bridges. He can guard Curry on his own and also intercept passes from him. He ist just too versatile. The Suns dont need to double any guard. And Ayton is versatile enough to not have to double any big man.

  • @bengrimm622
    @bengrimm6222 жыл бұрын

    He is still the best pg.

  • @cyberft

    @cyberft

    2 жыл бұрын

    Not so sure about that. Ja has beat him 3 out of 4 And has better stats.

  • @dt-lg2oc

    @dt-lg2oc

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@cyberft curry has better stats when he plays them

  • @cyberft

    @cyberft

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@dt-lg2oc Ja has won 3 out of 4 and won the matchup in crunch time, including with the season on the line last year.

  • @dt-lg2oc

    @dt-lg2oc

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@cyberft curry still had 30 + almost every game and did better then ja A win is a win but it's not like the grizzlies are a bad team they can play with out ja and have a record of 9 wins and 1 loss

  • @ichirosuzuki2252

    @ichirosuzuki2252

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@dt-lg2oc if someone were to say that, say, Lavine was a better PG than Curry because he was up in H2H, most Curry stans would call bullshit on that. For this year, Morant has proven himself to be a better guard with good efficiency on a massive volume

  • @Treeckosaurus
    @Treeckosaurus2 жыл бұрын

    I think breaking the 3P record was such a huge motivation for him, that with the juice from reaching that goal gone, he has to find new sources of motivation to be able to play at his own top-level again. I think there's some noise in the +16 stat, because it wasn't adjusted for opponents' strength, but it's interesting to see nevertheless. Also - like you said - Draymond not being around and adjusting to Klay's return impact the numbers as well. Huge fan of this channel, because you can actually talk about this stuff without someone shoving things like fieldgoal%, 3p%, ppg, apg and rpg in your face without any context. It's a noisy stat, but my happiness plus-minus score per 24 significantly increase on days Thinking Basketball uploads.

  • @KingAfrica4

    @KingAfrica4

    2 жыл бұрын

    He was shooting pretty poorly before he got the record as well though

  • @vannoah
    @vannoah Жыл бұрын

    game 5 of the playoffs he was 0-9 from 3 and was still super impactful so yeah i buy it, its not irrelevant but it matters surprisingly little

  • @CleverAccountName303
    @CleverAccountName3032 жыл бұрын

    2:38 someone buy this man a new sweatshirt

  • @KimWe-a-xler
    @KimWe-a-xler2 жыл бұрын

    The crazy things is, even if he is ice cold or on a slump or throwing bricks, and even if he goes 0 for 20, you really cant sag on him or go under screen because he can get insanely hot without a moment's notice. He is the fastest scorer in the history of the game, an actual human torch at that. And you just cant take the chance. Curry can literally go goose egg one game and drop an NBA record 13 triples the next game. Forget about his enormous court-warping gravity, you dare to leave him open to take away his teammates' looks, and next thing you know, he's dropping a 15-0 run on his own in 5 possessions.

  • @mryup6100

    @mryup6100

    2 жыл бұрын

    Great example of yesterday against the rockets

  • @jammies701
    @jammies7012 жыл бұрын

    Always a good video, but would be nice to have podcasts labeled as podcasts and not unlabeled like a regular video/gameplay analysis

  • @ThinkingBasketball

    @ThinkingBasketball

    2 жыл бұрын

    Sorry! It's in the thumbnail, but I forgot to add to the title (fixed now).

  • @feisalabbasi9265
    @feisalabbasi92652 жыл бұрын

    Can you break down rockets rookie alperen sengun he's got many shades of jokic

  • @dustinbarnes778
    @dustinbarnes7782 жыл бұрын

    Ben, how do think you figure who had the most average peak in NBA History, or who is the most a average player currently in the NBA?

  • @xman682
    @xman6822 жыл бұрын

    Ben what do you put in your hair?

  • @javigar133
    @javigar1332 жыл бұрын

    Nice to see some serious analytical work instead of... "The brodah can pull from Foty!!!" (SAS Styles)

  • @KimWe-a-xler
    @KimWe-a-xler2 жыл бұрын

    When guys like Kobe and MJ were still playing, like KD now, the main objective defensively by not to let them get it "easy" on offense and preventing them from getting to their sweet spots where they can carve you like a Thanksgiving turkey. With them, it aint really about if they make the shot or not, because you know they eventually will fall, but you just dont want them just continuously get good looks. Now with Curry, the same logic applies, except that his spot is the entire area outside the arc and within half court. When he runs around screen, you touch him up and stay attached, because as the greatest shooter the game has ever seen, he not only kills you with efficiency but with volume and shear gravity as well. 4.2 3PM per game on 34.6% since December (38.6 FG%) but the amount of shots and look he takes strains defenses, and the attention that demands generates offense for his team that allows the Dubs to remain elite despite this slump of his.

  • @user-tu3gp4ro1e

    @user-tu3gp4ro1e

    2 жыл бұрын

    lmaoo

  • @HomoErectus311

    @HomoErectus311

    2 жыл бұрын

    That’s always been the knock on Curry. Greatest scoring point guard of all time but when you rely so much on 3 point shooting, the variance and inconsistency is much greater and that augments in the playoffs. Wings scorers and inside presences tend to be more reliable.

  • @AliMohamed-yq4wn

    @AliMohamed-yq4wn

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@HomoErectus311 Stephen Curry has averaged 26.5 points, 6.3 assists and 5.4 rebounds in 112 games in the playoffs in his career, shooting splits of 45.0/40.1/90.6, his field and 3pt percentage are only 2% worse off in the playoffs compared to regular season, his play from regular and playoffs are very consistent.

  • @raphaelzenazel3821
    @raphaelzenazel38212 жыл бұрын

    When you talk about 3pt league average, is it off dribble 3pts ? Because most players shot spot up 3pts so i'm pretty sure he still shot better off the dribble

  • @HartleysRaspberry
    @HartleysRaspberry2 жыл бұрын

    steph is the only offensive player,besides jokic maybe where him simply being there provides just as much if not more value than his individual scoring,which is why aslong as teams still guard steph how they do his impact wont dwindle,however when he starts making these shots again on top of his otherworldly impact then we are once again extremely scary,paired with our defense

  • @ethandexter9470
    @ethandexter94702 жыл бұрын

    aaaaand he dropped 40 with 19 in the 4th, granted it was against Houston, but we may start to see him come back

  • @zdthekilla6950
    @zdthekilla69502 жыл бұрын

    I love this video, it also shows how ludicrous It is to put him at the number one mvp spot. We know his value still is there but his numbers have taken a complete nosedive but that interesting thing is the warriors are just as good. Embiid and Jokic are the only mvp front runners to me and then the Greek Freak and then KD

  • @jonathangazala421

    @jonathangazala421

    2 жыл бұрын

    How did you reach the conclusion that it shows that the Warriors are just as good. The numbers without Curry have dropped from plus 2 to minus 6. What he's showing is that his relative impact is the same

  • @Ascending11
    @Ascending112 жыл бұрын

    How much of Curry missing is poor shooting mechanics (not squaring up before shooting)?

  • @robiversity
    @robiversity2 жыл бұрын

    I see everyone else, no video on Giannis yet?!?!

  • @kevingordonhou7900
    @kevingordonhou79002 жыл бұрын

    Mean reversion

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