Command is one of my favorite mind control spells. Not brought up in this video is the requirement that it is a single-word command that results in one action. Surrender might cause the NPC to drop weapons. Flee might mean they take the dash action for one turn. Grovel to make them drop prone is another good one. But if they can't make the command in a single word, then I have the NPC follow the action of the first word they said. It's resulted in some interesting shenanigans to say the least. "First," for instance, might mean that the NPC declares that they are a winner, spending their action to make that (very loud) declaration. I find that mind control in general often requires the GM to think like a fey creature. Which at least I find fun! Great video!

@markpowell5228

Жыл бұрын

😊*Command* is one of my favorites, as a Player or a GM. Hilarious results! My one rule as GM for this spell, is that it must be a one-word VERB imperative. "Fall," "sleep/nap," "die"(comatose for 1 round), "vomit," etc.

@TheSmart-CasualGamer

Жыл бұрын

"Collapse" is one my party use a lot.

@oz_jones

Жыл бұрын

Oh that's funny. The player thinks of a "clever" way to circumvent the single-word restriction only for the target to be the number one winner.

Our bard used "command" on a spy who self-poisoned himself shouting "puke," making him expel enough poison for our group to question him.

I am currently running an adventure with a Boowray in Ravenloft. It is designed to slowly gaslight a target into committing progressively more evil acts. It can cast suggestion at-will, and the DC increases for the target each time they willingly follow the Boowray's suggestion. Only the subject can hear the suggestion. The Boowray is permanently invisible but has single-digit hit points. It starts off with seemingly friendly suggestions that hold little weight, playing the part of a "conscience" of sorts. Eventually it will start suggesting non-violent, but still morally questionable acts. Once it feels the subject is malleable enough, it begins to suggest more violent and outright evil actions relying on slippery-slope fallacies to drive the subject towards outright evil. Each time a PC follows a suggestion, I leave a note visible to them on their sheet of how many times they, "Obeyed the voice." The players panicked a bit when they saw the notes since they had no idea what was going on.

Fun fact: I thought the video would be about handling PCs getting mind-controlled by NPCs. 😵‍💫

@esajaan

Жыл бұрын

Me too Maybe some other time

@orokusaki1243

Жыл бұрын

Can be quite a sensitive subject, with quite the divide nowadays. Future editions may even see the removal of such magic, and perhaps even non-magical abilities/skills where one influences another.

I think the issue of mind control (subtle or not so subtle) was addressed in an interesting way in the "Dune" series. The Bene-gesserit have a subtle form of mind control. Consequently, intelligence operatives and diplomats are taught ways to resist or counteract that. Depending on the setting, if mind control is a thing, it could be banned in civilised society, people would know about it and have found solutions to protect themselves. There would be street vendors selling amulets to protect against it(real and fake), courses to strengthen your mind, everything..That's just how society works. Also, since even a level 1 Bard can cast "Charm Person", there would be horrible stories of people being charmed to do stuff they wouldn't normally do, which is a terrifying prospect the more you think about it." Have you heard about the Wilkinson's girl? Always thought she was up to no good, some folks say she was charmed into it, but i don't believe it.."

@kasane1337

Жыл бұрын

That's a good and important point, magic should have consequences, and the stronger the magic in your world, the more should society react to and adapt to it, especially when we're talking about something as dangerous as mind control.

One important note for GMs to remember if they're going to try this: keep in mind that 99% of the time, the players HAVE overcome a mechanical obstacle such as a roll to get to this point in the first place. So any interpretation you make MUST reward the player; the point is that they don't necessarily get everything they ask for if they overreach, not that they must do exactly as you want or get nothing at all! So using the guard example, the guard might refuse to leave their post just 'cause their "friend" said to, but he might tell them about a tunnel that isn't watched often that the party can use instead (and where the GM can throw more interesting stuff at the players). Or he might *want* to hang out with their friend at the pub, but only if Sgt Patterson says it's OK, allowing the players to get a fake notice from the Sgt or something to convince him it's alright, and then it'll still require some of his "friends" to go with him to party at the pub, diminishing their number for the heist. The point is that they *were* rewarded for their successful casting of the spell, just not as much or in the way that they wanted or were expecting. They must not be PUNISHED for it; that's what *failed* castings are for. If you must insist on rejecting their initial manipulation outright, you should let the players try at least a few more times to see if they can get it right. Otherwise, you're telling your players that "the GM won't let us do anything useful or fun with it, so why even bother?", thereby removing an entire story telling tool from your games and risking your players becoming bored and frustrated with you for no good reason.

@RottenRogerDM

Жыл бұрын

And if the NPC casts the same spell on the PC and wins the roll? Shouldn't the player just go along. AKA swap player and guard around in your post and see how many players will do the same thing.

@clyax113

Жыл бұрын

You make a very important point. I'll try that out.

I had a villain in a campaign that was a mind controller. They could imbue items with influences. The campaign didn't last long, but they used it on a PC to convince them to take the job they were being offered. I played it by describing the PC's dreams, along the lines of they were living in squalor or caves, and a bright opportunity cast light upon them - that sort of thing. I've never explained the situation to the player, so they still don't know they were being 'controlled'.

@oz_jones

Жыл бұрын

That's brilliant.

You know what could be handy? A quick and easy system to tell how an enemy might react to an evil, chaotic, or lawful suggestion. Something like that.

16:00 I see Guy rolling to make his Player Ragequit save, there XD

Hmm.. odd I must have hit the "like" and "subscribe" button at the end and unsubscribed from the channel.. how odd.. I don't recall doing that. Ah yes, ramifications... Another great episode Guy with fantastic ideas. Layers of good information in just 18 swift minutes.

Considering the ramifications, I think the type of mind control used in Asimov's book has an interesting take on this - the victim is fully aware that they have been converted, but they don't mind that at all, as they cannot emotionally separate their "true" opinions from their mind-controlled ones. They might understand, rationally, that they were converted to serve someone they despise, but that's the thing, they don't despise them anymore and as such see no good reason to ever abandon their master.

@zeehero7280

5 ай бұрын

yeah a character being aware that they are being controlled, but due to the control finds that they just don't care, is interesting.

Honestly, at work overnights, I listen to almost everything at 2x speed, and at home most things 2.5x to 3.5x, so hearing some affirmation on the use of that feature by a content creator is nice. I'd never be able to keep up with all I'm subscribed to I want to hear/see without it, plus it keeps my ADHD stimmed up.

I went i to this video since I'm thinking of starting something with Vampire the Masquerade. It had a few things to think about. But i think carefully reading the rules of related to the ability is probably one of the most important things.

I watched a mind control advertisement before this video .. but succeed at my saving through 😂

It's fun anyway to think realistically about mind alteration. Command for one could be that someone yells at you and you are so intimidated that you do whatever he says for 5 reactive seconds.

Once again one of the better videos. I have some nice takeaways. One thing I seriously missed though was some advice in using mind control on PCs ... Or PvP mind control (which I usually disallow completely because I hate PvP generally... exceptions do exist and it needs to in total consent or colaboration from both side) But in a world where mind control exists it is highly likely that "that bad guys" (no pun intendet) will use it on the PCs at some point ...

Mind control sometimes shows up (as a psionic ability) in some of the sci-fi settings that I play in, but usually not as a player ability. In GURPS Traveller, psionics are illegal and come with a heavy social stigma. Getting training requires spending points on an Unusual Background advantage. In GURPS Firefly, secret Alliance facilities have created readers (like River Tam), but there is no telepathic mind control (yet). In space-fantasy settings, I think the original Star Wars trilogy shows the limits of mind control nicely. Only a powerful Jedi can do it, instructions cannot be complex (e.g., "These are not the droids you're looking for" or "You will take me to Jabba now"), and it doesn't work when it would short-circuit the plot -- er, I mean, it works only against weak-minded fools.

My party and I were fighting a dracohydra that was being served by a community of lizard folk, and, during the fight, a bunch of lizard men showed up to help kill us. I decided to let my sorcerer cast suggestion on the dracohydra with my suggestion being, almost word for word, “They’re interrupting our fight. You should kill them.” Dracohydra failed the save and started attacking the lizard folk as they started panicking about their lord being angry at them. However, one thing both I and the DM noticed was that I didn’t mention anywhere that it stop attacking us while it was killing them 😂 We all loved as it turned into a chaotic mess of a fight. Looking back, I’m so happy I didn’t even consider suggesting something that could’ve ended the encounter altogether.

Thank you, I do the monsters steal your tactics too.

I wasn't going to hit the like button but then you commanded me to do so. It didn't work, but I wanted to reward the effort.

With regards to mind control, I'd like to see an episode on zombies and truth serum

Interesting ideas thanks

As the players leave the tavern to go on the adventure a angry voice is calling from behind them. They turn to see the guard they charmed yesterday. Roll intuitive.

@nickwilliams8302

Жыл бұрын

The guard they charmed along with all the other guards and the henchpeople of the local ruler. In any world where mind controlling magic existed, there would _also_ exist laws against using it on people, particularly officers of the law.

@Eemi_Seppala

Жыл бұрын

@@nickwilliams8302 I feel like most GMs completely forget that when they make magical worlds. If something is (and has been for years) commonly used, it's most likely regulated in fashion, especially if it can be harmful. And if it is not commonly used, but known around the world as a way to manipulate others or create unfair opportunities for oneself, the regulations might be even more strict. No-one ever considers what laws for magic use might be in a fantasy setting.

I’m running a game that had the party under modify memory since before character creation. They slowly found clues that the queen was behind it, and freed up their memories and hit level 7 last week. I’m super curious how they will role play if any of them get caught up again

In most universes it's illegal, unless you cast it on someone who is an enemy of the kingdom or some races. I wouldn't want to be a judge in this kind of universe, you can cast it on an ork, but not on a half-dragon barbarian. In fact, I think it depends on the citizenry; if the target is not a citizen of your country, you can do anything to him/her. Thanks for the video!

I enjoy a well played psyonicist!

A player in my current campaign is an enchanter but only uses his magic to avoid conflict There is a villain who could use objects he was bound to to affect people's minds

ok, this is kinda helpful, but can we also get a video for PCs being mindcontroled? My partner and I both have a hard time feeling about it becasue he doesn't feel like he can do anything and I just personally don't like such effects for various reasons even though I know that it's a game and ultimiatly harmless. Meanwhile our current GM has played as both the NPC mind contorling and the PC being mind controlled, and when he is in the latter positon he seems to just be able to go with the flow of it and actually enjoy it, basically using it to have some ecused to have a little bit of harmless evil fun and everything still goes smoothly. Do you have any tips for my partner and I for dealing with such effects as players?

the way ied see sugestion is more like how hypnosis works. you dont say "hey you leave your post" you say "hey isn't it sunday? that means today was your day off, so why are you here?" . and for "friendship" ied see it like a pawn shop owner. "look i know we are friends but i cant just give you this rare item" but "hey ied be glad to cut you a deal isted of it being 10k gold ill give it to you for 7 k "

I keep hitting the like and subscribe button, and I don't know why!

I tend to have pretty radical consequences when my party mind-controls random NPC’s. It’s an INTENSE violation of a person’s own self. Any city that deals with regular magic use has strict laws against it. If the person in question isn’t aware of the mind control, that’s a different matter and would only react negatively if there was something else that clued them in that something fishy was going on. When used against enemies, I don’t have issues with it, but it will definitely preclude any non-violent resolution with the party involved going forward (or at least induce much fear/anger toward the mind-controller. Depends on the NPC for the exact response)

Myself and Mind control: I actually treat it similar to in party conflict and motivation. Evil player and paladin in same party? That is mind control Paladin: You WILL let this thief join you on your adventure without fuss. Same for mind control and me. DO THIS. Then find a reason. If it can be rationalized in some way, then that is how or why they fulfill command and to extent. IE, you dont change the character, just how is being played for that situation.

@russelljacob7955

Жыл бұрын

Bonus comment: Your excessive command reminds me how I solve issue with WISH spell. A turn is representing 6 seconds in most games. I say that is 3 seconds for move, 3 for standard. So if spell is standard action? You have three seconds for the command. Full round? 6 seconds. A lot of fun with WISH when player tries saying something fancy and times out in older non ritual stuff.

I hit all the buttons... even the ones that were not there.

I loved it. It was much better than Cats. I'd see it again and again.

What if I 'like' listening to you drone on?

Ooh I was compelled to hit the Like button . . . but don't feel violated (lol). What's with the blue hair though Guy? Just trying it out???

I'm actually listening on 2.25x many youtube videos in general :D

The next time you're PC is mind controlled to "kill your friends" have them turn and leave the encounter.

@halkyuusen8626

Жыл бұрын

Plot twist. The mind controlling NPC used the friendship spell on the PC.

Any tips on how to use mind control on PCs?

@robavie

Жыл бұрын

Suggestion - Have the players hear, notice, or misidentify things. Perhaps even have someone light up a torch when they probably shouldn't. Do all your rolls in the open always. Friendly - They recognize someone as a friend of a friend. Have a full conversation with a PC and be an informant (especially if they are alone), then some stories later have that same NPC show up to the group and seem shady AF. All the information has gotten them into some level of trouble (scapegoat). Domination - This one is MUCH harder as you need to be very meta and obvious to your group. Player agency is super important and this violates it in a big way. So with any domination you must telegraph this ahead of time as something that might happen, then present it in a non life critical moment. Monologs, courtly events where it might just be humility or reputation, or allowing another group to escape (aka cutting the bridge rope so the party can't follow easily).

@sitnamkrad

Жыл бұрын

My advice is, don't. Or sparingly. It is the ultimate form of taking away player agency and even though it's done "by the rules" doesn't mean it's less annoying when it happens. A GM has tens if not hundreds of characters they can play in the world, taking away one such character for a moment has minimal impact on the GM's agency as a whole. The player has only one character and mind control will take that away, leaving a player with next to nothing, or worse, forcing them to do something they don't want. You need a very good reason to justify doing this.

@orokusaki1243

Жыл бұрын

Gotta know your table, and hope they live up to what they claim. Also have to have their trust. Can actually flip what Guy said quite easily - let the player interpret what that means to them, so they have the agency to play it appropriately. Consider a PC in manacles, how is that roleplayed properly when they can't free themselves? The mind control can be akin to any other status condition. Adversarial GMs and Players, no way, it likely *won't* be a good experience. Collaborative GMs and Players, hell yeah, it likely *will* be interesting and fun.

"You can't give him complex orders, Command specifies a single word!" "It's okay, I'll say it in German." (Word limits for spells are... unreliable when different languages are involved; there are multiple languages in the real world that slap multiple words together into a single Frankenword, and that knowledge alone makes for some unpredictability that the DM should not have to argue about...)

@legendgames128

Жыл бұрын

If you can say it in 3 syllables or less, then the word is allowed, that's an idea. No frankensteinish words or anything.

@Eisenwulf666

Жыл бұрын

You are absolutely right, on the other hand tell them :" a single ACTION" . Of course there are words in many languages that imply somewhat complex actions, even in english just saying "undress!" means many actions to perform, or "humiliate yourself" could involve a whole lot of different actions the target has to perform. Saying it has to be like a military command, a quick order involving a single,simple action could do the trick i suppose.

@BrazenBard

Жыл бұрын

@@legendgames128 3 syllables might be a bit short - "defenestrate" is a *good* command...

@BrazenBard

Жыл бұрын

@@Eisenwulf666 Agreed, single action commands, even using two or three words, should be the norm. Like "Bugger off!" would generally be accepted at my table. Or a less... polite form of the same order.

@legendgames128

Жыл бұрын

@@BrazenBard de-fe-ne-strate?

Can someone remind me what the C stands for in COGAS.

@oz_jones

Жыл бұрын

Colour. (Hair, skin, scale, feather, eye, hide)

1.75 speed is the best for me, thanks for asking.

I found thus video thought provoking...

@samtrue3

Жыл бұрын

But whose thoughts?

Some players think a charisma check is a mind control spell...

Yeah, let me save you some time. Player agency is the most important thing in any ttrpg. If you don't have that, you may as well be playing a video game. You should never, under any circumstance, take control of a player's character away from them. If they do end up being mind controlled or hit with some kind of curse or disease like lycanthropy or vampirism or whatever else you can come up with, let them keep playing as those characters. Let them play out HOW they act under this influence. For instance, just say to the player "Alright, you're character has failed the save and is now under mind control. When your turn comes around you will feel an irresistible urge to kill your fellow party members...go nuts." Guess what? They will. No holding back and no regrets, every single time, and they'll even have fun with it. Trust me, i've seen it. Multiple times. in several different campaigns. With hundreds of different players. Over the course of 12 years. Especially if pvp has been banned up until that point, and the other player's can't (or shouldn't) get mad because he's being mind controlled. Yes, if mc guy knocks out one of the other pc's and then goes in for the kill instead of turning to one of the pc's that are still a threat, that is kind of a dick move. Still an excusable dick move, but a dick move none the less. Other than that though, the player can have a lot of fun being mind controlled or cursed. let them explore it.

One thing I'm not a fan of is Mind Control on player characters, specifically the Domination variety.

Just an unimportant FYI command also says one word

The way that I have used these is by having the person with the power make the attack, then the the person who was attacked determine the method of interpreting the command. In the dropped sword example, the swordsman might drop it in the person making the command.

@littlegiantj8761

Жыл бұрын

I don't think that's how it works? Like...feel as though creatures should take the path of least resistance in fulfilling the command. Dropping it where they stand, vs walking over and trying to drop it "on" the caster: which takes more time to fulfill the command?

Sorry Guy I drink 2 cups of coffee every day. 2x is just too slow for me

How I deal with mind control in TTRPGs. I try not to. I typically find some excuse for a bad guy to not have their mind-control spells available if they have them at all, because as a player, I hate having my own agency taken away, and as a GM, I don't want to take away the players' agency, either. The players can use the spells all they want, though. They only sometimes succeed, anyway.

@orokusaki1243

Жыл бұрын

I definitely get the "agency" aspect, however there's also the game aspect to consider. That player signed up to play this game, and knows that mind control spells are part of the game. In summary: "it's funny until it happens to you.". Barring obscene and plain unsafe content, it's kind of the player's duty to roleplay the mind control properly. We had one character who became part of a hive mind, yet instead of seeking ways to navigate through that new reality and potentially find a way out, they resisted repeatedly until they became fully dominated. I saw this roleplay to be comparatively as bad as most who try to play evil characters by just being a dick to everyone. We ended up rescuing them quite casually via negotiation. So yeah, removing the spells outright is definitely a valid solution, but unfortunately it doesn't prepare those players for tables where those spells are *not* removed. It ultimately causes divides in expectations that may fuel drops, ghosting, and outright table death. In other words: can contribute to the degrade of the hobby.

Mind control has so many extremely yucky implications for player safety, so it really has to be handled very carefully. Players and/or GMs can easily cause some real-life harm on players by controlling their characters in various ways. One has to be mindful of that. That said, this video came at a very opportune moment as I'm currently in the process of expanding and reexamining my psionic abilities for the system I'm designing and "mind control"-esque abilities are absolutely a part of that.

I think the "Wait until my creatures use that on you" argument is one of the most terrible arguments a GM can make. First of all because a GM can already do everything they want to do, including completely ignore the rules, while players have to stick to the rules and that's assuming the GM didn't homebrew restrictions. Second because it perpetuates a Player VS GM mentality. A GM's goal should be to provide a fun game to the players. Telling the players "Sure you can have this fun thing, but then I get to use it to make your lives miserable" means you've lost sight of what the game is supposed to be. If whatever their fun thing is, is making the game not fun for you as GM, then simply talk to the players and find a way to resolve that together, not threaten your players with a bad time.

I was nonconsentually unsubbed! Next episode do 'how to conduct a labrynth!'

Spells have dc that suggest exactly that. U don’t ask haw other person sword get thru Armor. But be pain in the ass of casters. If dude coming with suggestion u let them do it. Why are looking for this conflict with players ? He pay for spell with a spell slot and picking a spell other different spells, and haw u invalidating their investment becoz ur absolute power as gm can’t fix consequences of a spell ? XD don’t be like that. If ppl want to explore what mind control feels like let them. There is always another opportunity to complicate things. U are dm not a shepherd XD

Consent morality is BS.