*Thanks for watching!* Let us know in the comments below your thoughts on using stereotypes in your RPG games!

Me: why would owls be considered an omen of death? * instantly remembers they are really competent predators * Oh...

Of all popular fantasy franchises I think Elder Scrolls has a surprisingly mature and balanced approach of handling stereotypes. For instance the head librarian of the College of Winterhold is Orc - but it doesn't feel out of place or like he's a joke character. The way he casually threatens the player that he's going to become really violent if he catches you mistreating the books makes him one of the more memorable npc's.

In reference to academic Klingons being looked down on, the Klingon attorneys see the courtroom as another battlefield. It is definitely an interesting take.

@andrewdiaz3529

3 жыл бұрын

Klingon therapists aid patients in their wars against depression

@rensten4893

3 жыл бұрын

My mind immediately goes to Phoenix Wright...

This is something wonderful that i'd been touching on with a friend of mine- i'll be sure to send them this video. But suffice to say, they kept trying to "subvert expectations" in their games and couldn't understand why their players didn't engage more with their stories. All I could manage was to tell them that they weren't giving any frame of reference for what those expectations should be- instead only assuming what their audience's expectations were, and therefore fell short of any actual expectations. Anyways, great vid, love it as always

@olafmeiner4496

3 жыл бұрын

To subvert expectations, you first have to set expectations. It sounds like such a basic thing, yet it is so hard to actually do it right. Guy touched on this repeatedly, but I felt the need to spell it out.

In my opinion having the bulk of the NPCs uphold extremely specific, made up stereotypes is actually funny. I'm from Italy and one of the funniest things for me is americans stereotyping australians, even though i knew next to nothing about both groups the first time, it was hilarious. That aside, I love how you presented your points, one of the better videos of 2021

Ah, stereotypes, and knowing when and how to invert them... Few years back, I was in a Pathfinder game and had to roll a new character (lethality was high; it was that sort of campaign). So, I rolled an elf. An elf who was employed as a librarian. So the first time the party met him (they were told to seek him out to aid them), he was puttering about with a book in hand, and clad in fine robes. Everyone assumed "Oh, he's playing a wizard again". But, the librarian told them he'd meet them at the tavern where they were currently based, soon as he'd retrieved his old adventuring gear... and a few hours later, he walks into the tavern wearing a mithral full plate and lugging a humongous two-handed sword. The librarian job was just a "safe" job he'd taken when he'd retired from adventuring to stay with his human wife; now that he was a widower, he could answer the call of adventure again and go crit-fishing... and the two-handed fighter archetype in Pathfinder deals a LOT of damage in melee. The other players were pretty much caught flat-footed at the second introduction. ;)

@andrejhranac2047

3 жыл бұрын

One of my current characters is a meek friendly gentleman of a firbolg. He has joined the party as an intern of their lawyer quest giver. His passions are tea, alchemy, good books and chatting with the inventors and thinkers that the party encounters. His class was kept a secret until a botched seanse summoned a deamon the party had history with and that already killed one of their number. An intense moment of the daemon and the party hatefully staring at each other was cut short when an ornate sofa smashed into the daemon with a sound of splintering wood and bending springs. The gentleman entered his Rage.

@BrazenBard

3 жыл бұрын

@@andrejhranac2047 One of my current characters is a cute little gnomish librarian in Waterdeep. She's also a Wild Magic path Barbarian with the Fighter's Unarmed Style (Fighting Initiate feat), meaning there is nothing she likes better than a good tavern brawl... She's *earned* her nickname, "Kneecaps", being pretty adept at punching to bits anything within reach... Very fond of orcs. ;)

If my players get to a certain city, they will find signs of a vampire in the area. They will eventually end up at dinner with him on this opulant room, with huge cushions and 3 ladies lying there. Then when the spit hits the fan, one of the three "brides" was actually possessing their "renfield" Lord.

@PersonMan1234

3 жыл бұрын

Literally just did that, but with a black armored paladin and a mind flayer using greater invisibity. Right when they defeated the black armored guy, his retired adventurer dad shows up and pleads for help. A medical exam shows not only is he presently enthralled, but is in very early stage Ceremorphosis and has less than an hour to live. Then they can treat him and get a big fat reward from the father, his old sack of leftover treasures.

@NessaEllenesse

3 жыл бұрын

That is a trope

Some stereotypes are developed during a campaign. I once ran a ravenloft campaign and only seemed to roll on random encounters Wovles and half naked werewolves (my good werewolves the bad ones didn't wear clothes) and my party was insistanted that besides the towns the rest if the land was only occupied by wolves and werewolves. I know I could have done different encounters but I'm very heavy on letting the dice lay where they roll(I dont like to use a screen. And when I do it's just for notes/charts) but I was also amused by how many times it was rolled

@andrejhranac2047

3 жыл бұрын

One of my most beloved werewolf packs in my Ravenloft adventures is a group of hillbilly shepherds that through witchcraft can suppress their bestial urges and are the most welcoming and hospitable people in the land, if not the whole demiplane. A warm bed or an open coffin? They got you covered. Mutton, cheese, or blood, they are willing to give all to a kind guest. Just do not try to steal from them or muscle into their territory. Even their meek sinewy youngest son has the stat block of berserker The werewolves that made them as they are now rue the day they underestimated them as weak.

On my last session, I've inverted the stereotype that a shopkeeper is friendly. It turned out really fun and everybody at the table died of laughter when they tried to haggle and the shopkeeper pulled out a knife and said "200 gold or else."

@user-vl8ws4wd7o

3 жыл бұрын

Genius!

In my world there are 3 types of Orc clans. The grey and brown are actually befriended by the Dwarves. The Elves were beset by ar great war and the green orc came to their aid and saved one of the major Elvin citadels. Very difeent than many other worlds played in.

@devinplombier6918

3 жыл бұрын

Amazing way to make Orcs appear as more "civilized" ! I love how you included them in the other races' history !

@andrejhranac2047

3 жыл бұрын

In my world Orcs live all over the place with many clans, but many of them have merged into a nation. The Dar nation consists of humans, orcs and their progeny, where orcs are seen as "a pillar of the imperial night" with dominion over humans in matters nocturnal and underground. Darran orcs are often seen as the shields against the horrors of the night and greatest champions of Light as they do not take it for granted. In the same vein, my lizardfolk have a greatly amicable relationship with the dwarves as they have learned to make small favors for each other, and they each see the best traits they themselves lack.

I would give this an 80/20 ruling; play up to stereotypes 80% of the time and subvert them 20%.

@LordVader1094

3 жыл бұрын

A good rule to have.

The movie Zootopia is an incredible masterclass about using and really manipulating stereotypes to tell a great story.

I’m starting my DnD campaign again next week with my friends (first time since COVID) and I’m beyond excited! Cant wait to use your tips

This is why I enjoy my new races to have built in stat modifiers. I get WotC wants to become more PC and give players more options for their PCs, but that stuff is useful for Dms.

This was an excellent video! Thank you for the insight. I wrote my campaign roughly 2 years ago and started session 1 less than a year ago. We are about 26 episodes in and still to this day one of my very favorite parts to create was the city of Lukrek. Full of native Orcs established with the rest of society as a mostly peaceful and well educated bunch. They are still capable of demonstrating all out power and domination, they just havnt chose to in recent decades due to a time of peace. That is, until a cultist-like infiltration began to take place across the land and one of the players helped them create artilary powerful enough to wipe the cultists out before they could make a big enough impact. One PC with blueprints to his gun + one aspiring Kobald looking to carve a new path for his name + all the orcs in the city supplied full of materials and a will to protect = absolute destruction for the sake of justice. What a satisfying arc it shall be.

I always use British accents for insufferable, snobbish characters. That's the stereotype I use the most.

@heidihurlock06

3 жыл бұрын

Just like real life

@upsidely

3 жыл бұрын

So, scouse, cockney, Scottish, Welsh accents etc for snobbish characters? Interesting!

@Rajaat99

3 жыл бұрын

@@upsidely All of my British accents are terrible, I am sure. I just try to copy Monty Python accents.

@Ragnarok6664

3 жыл бұрын

But we know the snobs are French

Finding and using the archetype in the stereotypes was a good advice i once read in a GM guide book. Been in my mind for a decade

@larsdahl5528

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, now I think of it. Some of the more roleplay-focused role-play systems do use personality archetypes. Citing the idea of personality archetypes was originally invented by Carl Jung en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung With the idea of "Nature" (How the person truly is) and "Demaneor" (How the person behaves).

@jonaspetzall

3 жыл бұрын

@@larsdahl5528 yes, this video sparked me googling good archetypes from Jung for roleplay but I didn't find anything usefull. When its a short but typical description is best. Our and the players idea should fill in the rest

You sir are a scholar, a gentleman and a Legend!

Found this channel yesterday and I've watched a few of these now. What you do brilliantly is break down and describe the underlying rules of storytelling and creation. Better than anything else I've seen here. Great job. John Wick wrote similarly in one of the "play dirty" essays (highly recommended by the way) where he has the PCs overhear some Orcs worrying about how to survive winter because the local villagers are stealing their supplies, then he hit the players with the killer dilemma "what are you waiting for? They're worth 30xp each..."

As I listened to this, I couldn't help thinking of how Brandon Sanderson weaves stereotyping into "Mistborn: The Final Empire" to make a good story. In that book, characters believe stereotypes that all nobles are corrupt and vile, Skaa workers are just beaten down pushovers, and all thieving crews are cutthroat people. And in general, the stereotypes are correct. But then Sanderson zooms into the lives of individuals who are different and break the mold.

Good video. I'd like to add a little bit to the "reinforcing of stereotypes". It was touched upon a little bit during the video but I think it could use some more emphasis. In order for expectations to be subverted, the stereotype does need to exist in your game. This is why reinforcing is important. But one important thing to keep in mind is who in your game is doing the reinforcing and who is doing the subverting. For example, if the one doing the subverting is one of the player characters, it can very quickly feel like that character becomes the baseline due to the sheer amount of "screentime" the character has. At the same time, if the only NPCs doing the reinforcing, are throwaway NPCs that are just there for the players to battle once and then forget, they aren't going to be doing a lot of reinforcing. So it's not just about how often you reinforce/subvert.

I just noticed Rising Sun and Firefly in the background. Both of those are great board games.

Very well thought out points in this video.

Yay! New lesson video!

did not expect this video to be this great, I was "oh no" with the title and "oh yes" within the first two minutes, amazing work as always.

Well, I now know what a codpiece is. Nothing to do with fish.

This is one of my favorite videos

I have an upcoming adventure idea for something just like this (sorta). The players are going to have to transport a fey water spirit to a distant spring. The spring is the main water source for an entire city of werewolves, and the fey spirit currently in residence is dying (or fading, or whatever), and the young fey is needed to maintain the spring that helps to keep the town residents from reverting to their common nature (chaotic evil). The city (a lawful and good society) has offered up prayers to save the elder fey, and the only real solution is a young, inexperienced water spirit to carry on for her.

Thanks for not shying away from topics like this to apiece the thought police. We would have missed many insights.

Modern kid’s books are great for the circumvented Fairy Tales. Princess Harriet Hamsterbone is a favorite with my kiddos (5 and 3).

This is the perfect kind of unintentional response vid to Extra Credits, lol

Challenge: Gretel was a naughty, anti-social child whose parents had to frequently punish her for her outrageous behavior. So one day Gretel took her brother Hansel and ran away into the woods. Hansel left a trail of breadcrumbs so they could get back, but Gretel secretly destroyed it so they couldn't. They found in the woods an old witch in a house made of candy that was enchanted to appear before children lost in the woods, so the witch could give them some treats and show them the way home. Gretel tells the witch how "abusive" her parents are and they are allowed to stay with the witch for a while. While the witch is preparing dinner, Gretel shoves her into the oven, killing her, and then begins learning magic from the witch's books, becoming the new, eviler witch of the woods, with Hansel as her lackey. The house is still enchanted to appear before children lost in the woods, but instead of sending them home, Gretel kills them so that no Gretel-like child can kill her and take her place. (And then she cooks their bodies, because it would be a shame for that meat to go to waste...)

Thank you for your insight on this

Great vid. Thank you for this. Stereotype is like cliche.....it's there because it's observably present and great.

If it's acceptable, I'll forego the fairy tale angle and talk about my game setting, because it's very about playing with stereotypes. Dwarves are famous alcohol brewers, but this is because alcohol is a metabolic need for them, much like water for humans. This is part of why craftsmanship is such a significant part of their culture, building a still is a survival skill for a dwarf. However, they also spend their lives trying to learn what their specific craft is, so that when they die, their greatest crafted item will become the object legally recognized as their person. That is, the magnum opus of a deceased dwarf is legally recognized as that dwarf. Theft of that item is treated as kidnapping. Elves are, for the most part, just longer-lived humans. But the elven kingdom is highly conservative, and seeks to keep all elves within its borders, and has been known to send assassins to so-called 'traitor elves'. Within the elf kingdom, elves are restricted to the pursuit of 'natural' civilization. What exactly this means is unclear, but not exactly up for debate, considering the lethal repercussions of violating 'nature'. Orcs are constantly in pursuit of war, but only because one tribal leader has consolidated his tribe into a single warband that attacks the surrounding tribes in turn. In order to defend themselves, the other tribes have had to adapt a similarly warlike structure. As these wars have gone on, the orc tribes have generally adopted ranged warfare as their preferred fighting style, wielding gigantic warbows that fire their spearlike arrows much further than most non-orcish weapons can. Humans, of course, take in whatever they can from other cultures. This does not always work out for the better, though. Because the dwarves are their closest neighbors, diplomatic relations with the elves and orcs are choppy at best. Additionally, many aspects of the non-human cultures are not openly shared with other cultures, so human culture is a mosaic of the more outward-facing elements of other cultures, missing much of the nuance behind the pieces. Barbarians' unnatural physical prowess comes from magical tattoos which must be exposed to open air to work, thus the 'barbarian armor' look. The mythical heroes of old were literally helped along by the magical forces of the world, which enforce stereotypes. Nowadays, there is a literal goddess of storytelling whose divine powers run on TVTropes pages. There's only one pantheon in the civilized world, because they specifically exist only in the civilized world. Humans, elves, dwarves, and orcs all worship the same gods, just in different ways. And if a significant cultural change happens, the gods themselves change to reflect that. There used to be a god of law and justice, until legal bureaucracy rose to prominence. Now there are two gods, one of law and one of justice, because the two didn't mean the same thing anymore.

@Ellebeeby

3 жыл бұрын

I fucking love your take on Dwarves!

@reyinpoetic3981

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ellebeeby Thank you!

I do admit that I am running with the standard D&D Orcs in my campaign setting, but I have been doing it to dangle a plot hook at my players. A divine edict that has the stereotype enforced at their own hands does tend to be problematic to the neighbors. In this case, the Orcs just had a major blow that wiped out the core of Grunmsh's Clerics, and there is now wiggle room for those not wanting to stay under the shadow of Ol' One Eye. It is going to take some work to convince the people that the orcs were raiding that this is not a trap though...

I love the fact you brought this up. I have ben doing this for years.

Love your videos, Guy! I do disagree that we need to enforce certain stereotypes within our game when they are already entrenched in the real world. (e.g. the shy orc Gorgug from Fantasy High is already a subversion without the GM creating bloodthirsty orcs in the world). In fact, when the party meets only savage orcs, the few academic orcs they meet don’t subvert the entire stereotype - they are just seen as special, exceptional, strong-willed. They had to overcome the reality of their savage nature/savage clansmen to become academics. An interesting story hook, but not a subversion of a stereotype - it reinforces it as truth. Same thing happens in the real world. Thanks for creating a space for discussion!

Narcissus, but instead of falling in love with himself, he notices in his reflection that he has something in his teeth.

The modern attack on stereotypes idiotically ignores a very basic fact: Stereotypes exist for a reason. Now, this in no way means that they are accurate representations of EVERY individual (because we are ALL individuals, not part of some ethnic group and no more than that... as you said in the video about yourself) but the stereotype wouldn't exist if a certain number of people in a certain group didn't display certain behaviours. This means using those stereotypes to personify NPCs is fine. In fact, it gives a competent GM the opportunity to subvert the stereotype to create interesting characters. Thanks for making this video. Well said, sir.

Don't make a character specifically for the purpose of going against every single stereotype. That just results in another kind of stereotype. Stereotypes do tend to have at least some grounding in reality. They aren't just made up by people who want to be mean. So when making a character, think about in what ways they do align with stereotypes and in what was they don't and what they feel about said stereotypes. Varik from Dragon Age is a fave of mine. In many ways, he's not like a typical dwarf. He's clean shaven and he's also very charming and well spoken. Yet, he does still love gadgets and a stiff drink. He's fully aware he's a black sheep among dwarves and doesn't hold any ill will towards his bretheren for it. He just accepts he doesn't really fit in among dwarven society.

Thank you so much for this enlighting video! 🥳

Huh. I did a lot of this in my world and now I’m watching a video about it. I have a whole nation of “uncivilized” races who banded together to form a meritocracy. Orcs tieflings goblins Minotaurs etc. I also have a nation of dwarves who are known for their warm hospitality, and they get along with elves.

I wish he started by having a spot of tea.

You should write a DM guide style book with all your advice and tools. Im sure that would be a huge success. Or have you already? Point me to it

In my campaign, I stepped away from the 'aggressive' Orc stereotype, and wrote an initially Nomadic yet flourishing setting for them - they embrace history in Arena fights and test of physical strength, but as a society, they have evolved into something bigger, with a harbor village that acts as a diplomatic front to the rest of the world. Enter the players, and 5 sessions later they basically forced their hand to declare war on the human kingdom. In the end, we play these sorts of games to have fun, we are not educators nor social commentators - we are 'enablers of fun'.

Wow, somebody understands this concept of stereotypes in RPGs, unlike the Extra Credits crew

@larsdahl5528

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, there are two stereotypical groups: Those who understand the stereotype concept, and those who do not.

Snow White, sick of living with seven men and unable to get through the prince's dense skull hires the witch to set her and the prince up where he's forced to make a move and realize how true feelings nfor her.

What about machine or technology stereotypes? I know in Star Trek there are lots of these stereotypes. Like Starfleet is over-engineered, kazon ships don't always work properly, Klingon ships are sturdy but slow. Are there other technology stereotypes,?

To understand stereotypes in a roleplaying game properly and therefore use them properly, you have to understand the mythology behind our stories. Humanising a dragon will lead you astray. Humanise the humans and understand what the language of mythology is. Otherwise you are muddying the water for yourself. This is a very D&D derived problem as that has lead to the humanising of creatures that play very definite roles withing mythology. We now have a language problem where what one person calls an orc another knows it is not, it is some form of 'savage human' derivative. Archetypes and stereotypes are vital to games but so is understanding which language you are using. If we are unaware there are different approaches to this subject arguments ensue. Trying to fix those interpretations will not work until such time as people individually accept there are different types of meaning being applied, depending on the knowledge of the individuals involved.

He said good jeans ( I know, genes) I agree. My jeans look better on me than my ex's jeans look on her.

20:00 yeah, I've seen hoodwinked...

Hi Guy, I had a question about giving a *sense of urgency* to players. I've watched a lot of your videos and it gave me the confidence I needed to run my first one shot, but ultimately the players lost because they decided to take a short rest rather than pursue the baddie at the end of the last encounter. Are there any sure-fire ways to get your players to "make haste" without meta gaming or giving too much away? In this particular case there were no friendly NPCs anywhere nearby, so short of starting a countdown I'm at a bit of a loss.

I have done this with Cinderelli

I created once a city near to an orcish Land... they hatte the pics in the city, nur when the group meet the First orcs they were much more like some drunk Tourists, than fierce warriors... they all laughed.

I think it also depends on how you play...once again. For example, my world has a lot of arcane science and it's opened up a lot of trade and world travel which means more blending of species, races, and ethnicity...which causes at blending or at least introduction to different cultures. They are neither anything specific from our world, but understanding the why's about things helps. Now...for me I have an NPC who's a homosexual half-orc vampire who's still all the warrior that he should be and cool as hell. The players love him since he's just an awesome character...the rest is just a part of him, but don't make him. I may get hit for that because I'm not homosexual with a homosexual character...but I have vast array of NPCs of all kinds because these are the folks I've been around in my personal scope. Keeping an open mind to things would help all this I believe.

@RaichuWizDom

3 жыл бұрын

I'm now picturing Puri Puri Prisoner with fangs, tusks, and a light green skin tone. It's... not a bad mental image, actually, thanks for that.

@RoninRaconteur

3 жыл бұрын

@@RaichuWizDom I guess so...just better hair...and he would tell you that too. LOL

In Alien RPG, synthetics are generally distrusted and the players are always wary of them. Why wouldn't they be, in almost all movies and books (that I've read) synthetics either flat-out betrayed humans or had an inhumane agenda. For this reason, my synthetics are always of dubious nature. They are never hostile, but they are usually proactive. Them being proactive is what really unsettles my players. Why is this robot so nice to me, does it want to earn my trust? Why does it want to go alone to the reactor room, to set off the self-destruct? Why would it take a rearguard position, is it to shoot us in the back? Then, from time to time, one of these synthetics is actually a better person than any human can be, one that would have given them everything if they were given a chance. The last one who turned out to be one, died just a minute too late for the players to realize who was the last person who could (and would!) have got them back to Earth. I love stereotypes, thank you for making this video. :)

Seems like a lot of commenters didn’t actually watch the video or somehow completely misunderstood it.

I have a question and I don’t see very many videos or conversations about it. I wanna run a gladiator arena in my game. I already have fighting pits you can enter at will but I’m making a country similar to ancient Rome & Egypt where slavery is a huge problem. So I’ve made the land so that when they enter the country they will be attacked by slavers and possibly captured it will be a hard encountering. What I wanna know is what is a fare way to do this; capture and enslave your players (as horrible as it sounds), without making the players feel like all their stuff was stolen and there is no escape. I plane to have all their belongings still be together held by the master and to have multiple ways of freedom such as buying it by doing gladiator matches or by inciting rebellion amongst the slaves but I was wondering if anyone had any other ideas of going about this and making it feel like it’s apart of the natural story

@andrejhranac2047

3 жыл бұрын

First, taking away the freedom of PCs is always a magnetic minefield, but there are ways to prevent them feeling constricted. First way is to send them on a mission that has them infiltrate a slaver. Upside is that they are made aware of having to endure the life of a gladiator/slave. Downside is that they may find a way to skip all other stuff to fulfill their mission and get out before engaging with anything else. Second way is to make slavery much broader in application. Have them meet slaves that wear expensive clothes, slaves that navigate dangerous situation with confidence, aven slaves that own slaves. Then, brush off having to endure the disgrace of being dragged to a foreign land and sold in an infodump. Emphasize it being the beginning of the new adventure/dungeon. You can sprinkle in some allies, or make their masters tend to their needs and recognize their talents. Have the healer heal, the innocent one keep away from anything elicit and let the fighter show their skills. Upside is that you retain the whole shock of getting enslaved and if your players do not bail on you between sessions, than it will be at its core a more elaborate jailbreak. Aside from that, you can show them the celebrity lifestyle. Downside is the fact that it does not show if the players are on the same wavelength as you, therefore this option does not neutralize the minefield, just dodges them. If neither options are available or to your liking, foreshadow, foreshadow, foreshadow. Let them first encounter the slavers on the road, with a stock of captives. Let them later see a slave get captured. If they engage, they organically get into the encounter. If they do not engage, also fine. Let them get inside a small dungeon and have the slavers wait at the exit. If they beat the encounter, you have the slaves that can present the first option, with some PCs posing as slavers and others as slaves/gladiators. Their reward for beating will be dictating where they hide their weapons and gear and the sneaky and chatty characters can have a field day smuggling the needed tools through the increasingly suspicious guards.

@thecrow4461

3 жыл бұрын

@@andrejhranac2047 Thank you this is extremely helpful. I’ve been foreshadowing the county for a long time, and I’m making sure the party is very aware the dangers and that it’s a possibility to be captured. I love the idea of showing/introducing npc that will be captured. my party falls in love with every npc and always asked them to join the party so Letting them fall in love a little then capturing them will make more incentive for the party to go checkout the root of the problem. Or it makes for really entertaining encounters to see how they keep npc’s safe. I also plan to have them be attacked multiple time slowly increasing in difficulty so my plays know what to keep expecting. Thank you again

BTW, there is no such thing as free will... but the red dragon can still be lawful good or whatever lol.

I'm just gonna add my ¢2s here: This vid: talking about using stereotypes Another video: talking about not stereotypically well rounded party comp, why it's good/ok and the GM/DM (and they alone) have to compensate for it My hypocrisy meter is broken.

2E Forgotten Realms had the LG Ondonti orcs who turned their backs on Gruumsh and embraced the pacifist teachings of Eldath, the Goddess of Peace and Quiet Places.

Nice video! Why you say it is "taboo"?

Stereotyping IRL can be problematic, but I'd REALLY wish that people would leave this, and other, real world issues out of the roleplay hobby. Things that are/can be problematic IRL, do not have to be so in a made-up fantasy land, which was created by some overworked GM, who's struggling to find the time to create his world and adventures. Stereotypes and tropes are highly useful tools, and what takes place in fantasyland, should stay there. Just as the real world should stay with one's coat by the door, when playing with our friends.

Neutral stereotyping can just be a culture.

I twinge every time I hear "subvert expectations" ever since star wars. It seems like a lot of authors and dm's do it for shock value or for an agenda at the cost of story rather than to make it more interesting. You seem to use it more fluidly but I do tend to prefer enforcing stereotypes. as for me I get annoyed when the red dragon is really misunderstood and wants to make doilies as apposed to being an immensely powerful greedy vain lizard with a god complex. Especially if there was evidence to substantiate this assumption before hand. first hand testimony or legends that are just swept away for the sake of "subversion".

What is it about medieval coat pieces ? I dont see anything unnormal. HELP!!!

Honestly, subverting cliches is so overdone at this point that it's a cliche in and of itself. Same for stereotypes. Nowadays everything is supposed to be grey and complicated, so suddenly an unequivocally evil, irredeemable mage with no other reason for being evil aside from being evil is almost a surprise

Out of the rank and file of cobble-geared gnolls. A silk veiled gnoll in fine, clean electric blue armor appears from the edges of battle, a pup in an armored backpack clings to the back of the hood watching the gore and bloodshed intently. A disturbingly calming and clean feminine voice commands a halt to the battle, and without even moving to defend themselves the raiders stop. Kracg, the gnoll fighter that joined the party looks terrified as though someone a step above god just walked onto the battle field and can only mutter a single word, "Woman....." I often use sterotypes to build off of. They're shorthand, a tool to make worldbuild easier. We know gnolls as scavangers, savage. Animal nerds might know that hyenas have a matriarchal hierarchy. But if the humans only ever see the scraggly males in hodge podge armor roving in bands, they might just think that is all Gnolls are.

My DM refuses to use stereotyping in any amount or sort. As a result most of the party is just magical races and teiflings specifically and everyone plays it like humans with hats on. saddens me as I enjoy a bit of dark reality in my games. just a bit of pepper as it were.

Ooh I'm early And I apparently needed to comment that...

@larsdahl5528

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah... We know the stereotype: Become the first to comment. I find to opposite more interesting: Become the last to comment!

👍

People are blowing this thing about stereotypes in gaming out of proportions. I don't understand how Orcs being pillaging savages is a "bad" stereotype when Orcs aren't real. Same goes for Klingons and Cardassians. Besides, you need your bad guys to be stereotypical because that stereotype is based on the type of bad guys that fit the role most perfectly. For example, the Cardassians were portrayed as duplicitous and conniving but also very patriotic and loyal and all of that was masterfully conveyed through Damar's character arc - and all of that was possible because of that "bad" stereotype about Cardassians. I'm not even going to mention Ferengies and how that "bad" stereotypes created one of the most memorable characters in all of Star Trek. Stereotypes are not "problematic", they are a challenge against which characters are tested.

@HowtobeaGreatGM

3 жыл бұрын

That is exactly my point. We have these stereotypes so let's use them to tell better stories. Damar's journey, Dukat's family, the Bajoran politics, Romulan Admirals - Star Trek's primary strength was exploring these stereotypes and breaking them specifically. Miles O'Brien was principally the 'old guard' against which many of these were used. TREK FOREVER!

So you say that it will be unrealistic if all Dragons/Orcs are aggressive and ambitious. But aren't all Lions and Bears aggressive and ambitious? When you were speaking about the enforcing of the stereotype, you said that it needs to happen only about 1/4 times in game. But if it is less than half people think so, it's no longer a stereotype!

@TheGladGolem

3 жыл бұрын

No.

@andrewdiaz3529

3 жыл бұрын

You never see a bear walk around a backyard and trip over itself running from a squeaky dog toy it stepped on. Also lions spend a lot of time not doing much, and tend to be (using the them loosely) introverted

Hey I knew he was South African.

In my homebrew, the finest cattle ranch and butcher in all the world raises their cattle from birth with love and affection.. round the clock care.. cattle fed only the best oats and kale and beers and wines and chocolates... massaged and played with, entertained and very well sexed and live really happy... dare I say even charmed lives... brought to an end whilst charmed and surrounded by caretakers that truly make the cattle feel loved and safe and fulfilled in its life... the blood is then thoroughly drained of every drop and then the massaged & tenderized cuts of meat are greedily purchased at top dollar by all the world’s lords and ladies, or as a bucket list meal for your average peasant... The meat comes from Moonlight Ranch, and the ranchers are all Vampires. All the vampires... they don’t hunt, they protect and pamper cattle and sheep, and pigs, etc... They live off the delicious blood of the pampered cattle and are well respected by every meat eater through out the land... not feared for why would they drink any blood save for that they cultivate to perfection, when properly cared for, bovine blood is the richest and fullest tasting blood offering far more nourishment to any Blood sucker than any other mortal. These respectable business-persons do call on the king’s aid or any other adventurer to save them from attackers and/or those who wish to sew discontent in the land by propagandizing Vampires to be anything but concerned and well meaning cattle ranchers.

@upsidely

3 жыл бұрын

Vampires that sexed all the cows really good? I won't kink shame...

Deconstructing and reversing bad stereotypes is often a key to good quality time during sessions.

Emotionally mature listeners do not need the "stereotypes are bad, don't cancel me" disclaimer. Everyone stereotypes, pretending that one doesn't is not a mark in their favor.

I dont think stereotypes are bad. I think theyre useful, both in real life and out. You can use stereotypes to your benefit or others. Even the "Bad: ones can be used to benefit. Just depends on your outlook on the world and life.

True the stereotyping gets kind of bad at times. The campaign that I was in my character ended up becoming the Ambassador for a drow house. With the goal of trying to move the house to the surface world so they don't have to fight for resources. My character was a human. I thought it was a great concept new spin on them but my DM reverted back to the sheer fact that they're evil and they just wanted to start a war waste of a good potential there.

As an orc myself, I find the stereotypes that surround my kind extremely offensive. Cancel all DMs who make orcs that fight people. 😤

I'll get cancelled if I do!

@Nersius

3 жыл бұрын

The radical left has gone too far. Had a gobbo like a shiny thing, now the wife took the kids to a coworker's place and I'm eating unheated Boyardee.

I don't have dragons. Stereotype beater, got rid of half of the title of the game!

A "stereotype" has never been good or bad. All a stereotype does is say "this thing does this MORE OFTEN THAN NOT" Thats it.its when people read more into them, or spin them to fit their own bad narratatives that's where the problem lies

Johannesburg locals were offended by cultural superstition... Owls were killed because of a stereotype. So it only matters only if it is human? :) Funny. I think stereotyping is a bad word for desribing this subject. It is more of a profiling. We are profiled by Google and Facebook in quite stereotypical ways, yet noone bats an eye.

People like Orcs because they ARE Orcs, NOT even if they are Orcs i watch this channel a lot for my world building and pathfinder sessions of RP i did feel disappointed with this video i was miss guided of what we would learn on this one i still like the other videos so ok, but if you wanna know why i dislike it read below i remark fantasy because Stereotypes on fantasy are pick by popularity its not the same as real world examples by using a >>Fantasy

@adahnliegl740

3 жыл бұрын

I figure you're not a big fan of Terry Pratchett?

@HowtobeaGreatGM

3 жыл бұрын

I never said throw away what made the stereotype. In fact I said - enforce it to make it stronger, and make sure not everyone fits the stereotype so that it becomes real. I do like your suggestion though - making species your own in your own games. I like that.

@adahnliegl740

3 жыл бұрын

A more serious/less sarcastic reply than the first one: My take on stereotypes is: they suck if they are true. Especially if they are invariably true. If each character in your species or tribes or nations follows the same stereotypes and hence characteristics they'll become very boring in not time. Because it makes these characters not only predictable, but calculable. Which is rather suboptimal in my book as it encourages players to see them not as characters in a story to interact with, but rather problems to overcome. Tribal orcs herding or raiding are fine but if you want to instill a sense of wonder in your players you'll better put a tribe of outcasts into an orphanage temple in a desert oasis where they collect scrolls and try to engineer waterways to eke out a homeland for themselves - because they are seen as a danger in already established cities. Or even if you keep the stereotypes employ them in an unexpected manner: An Orc might be the most successful and respected merchant in a city - because his imposing stature means others are less likely to attempt hornswoggling him, he considers the market a place to both defend his honour and satisfy his greed. Or use a false stereotype some group abuses to further an agenda. For example a knight in shining armor lamenting those child-stealing, murderous, unscrupulous brutes while he wades through the blood of yet another massacred goblin village on a 5 year crusade. I think this makes for way more interesting characters and situations than let's say my dwarf is a smith, has a beard, a scottish accent and really likes beer and gems.

I love the vid though I gotta say when it comes to monsters in the book being say evil like the red dragon example or orcs. By raw aka the books thats the majority of the said monster, so out of 1000 red dragons 10 might be lawful good but in 99% of the red dragons you meet are the highest chances of being chaotic evil short tempered villains. I disliked that you lowkey insulted people who prefer using raw for their games by saying there is no free will/ cookie cutter world. Just cause people prefer using raw lore/descriptions in their games doesnt mean that all red dragons will be the same cause raw. A dm can make 2 red dragons following the raw lore but they be completely different but still within what lore and stats provided by raw. 1 red dragon maybe chaotic evil and enjoy burning everything into a waste land while another is chaotic evil and enjoy just robbing people and leaving them alive. (im not gonna act like i know the exact lore on red dragons here)

I use them, develop them a bit, make them a bit more human and done.

Don't have the time to watch the whole half hour but here's 2¢ from a permadm. Stereotypes for FANTASY races, as long as they aren't represented as stand-ins for real world cultures, can be OK and fun. Vampires can be Gothic, nobody cares about that and nobody should unless they really hate Gothic Vampires. However, I've seen even official D&D modules get this wrong by making these stereotypes a stand-in for a culture they want to insult in some way. I've seen an especially bad case where Orcs are represented as Idiot Savages, like many Orc stereotypes, but the Orcs culture was explicitly supposed to be representative of Polynesian/Pacific Islander tribes and the entire module was just a shining example of how not to write a Campaign (Step one is easy and they failed it, it's don't be a terrible person). If I enter your game and it's making negative implications about real world cultures, I'm going to call you out in the middle of the game, pack up, and leave. Nobody likes when you insert fucked up, warped fantasies into your supposedly fun fantasy game. This is why it's best to use basic stereotypes and subversions of those stereotypes in the same game to show that there's an amount of depth to these characters but also an amount of predictability. Let Barbarians be angry and let Goblins be greedy, but also create more Stoic barbarians and some generous Goblins.

@andrewdiaz3529

3 жыл бұрын

Let there be a Charity organizing Bruce Wayne Goblin

What are some Star Trek Stereotypes?

@erokvanrocksalot7545

3 жыл бұрын

Ferangi are greedy Kingons are blood thirsty Borg are communists Vulcans are heartless Romulans are tyrannical Cardasians are genocidal Norsicans are ugly brutes Humans are weak Andorians love blue Androids, there’s only 1 good & 1 bad.

@HowtobeaGreatGM

3 жыл бұрын

I'd argue the Borg point. I'd say: Borg are oblivious

@erokvanrocksalot7545

3 жыл бұрын

@@HowtobeaGreatGM True-che’ ... that bit was a poor attempt at humor. I was going for a 1-word that meant hive mind, duh hiveminded ... but then there’s that group that Loqutus managed to turn into individuals. Ehh a lil more effort woulda dialed it in.

@erokvanrocksalot7545

3 жыл бұрын

@@HowtobeaGreatGM but can we talk about why there aren’t more androids in Star Trek? Data is my favorite of all ST characters, but I also love Isaac from Orville.. and that there’s an entire planet of droids... logical outcome Had an idea for a ST story/show around Enterprise B with a character that was a humanoid embodiment of the ship’s computer, sure strong but super literal without common sense... that would end up failing, and Star Fleet would ultimately scrub the project, which would eloquently show why Data is different.. Anyways, I ramble.

@rookangelofmercy7283

3 жыл бұрын

@@HowtobeaGreatGM Vulcans are cold, romulans are distrusting of everyone, only female cardassians enter science, the bajorans are a very very religious people, the andorians are highly aggressive but not too violent The tellarites enjoy arguing too much, Paclleds are dumb and sneaky, Humans can be ruthless sometimes

No and never. They are cringe filled things RPG horror stories are filled with. Most of what you are talking about are not stereotypes but tropes. Tropes I found were Always Chaotic Evil Fantastic Racism Always Chaotic Evil Info Dump is also trope.

Isn't stereotypes and stereotyping two completely different things in this context? The new discussions it's very much about race and racism and not so much about archetypes. (?) 🤔

@HowtobeaGreatGM

3 жыл бұрын

I get lost in what are good and bad and neutral terms of the idea of 'all orcs are green'. In the context of this video - I believe it's more about the notion that we have preconceived ideas, and that we, as creators should use them to our advantage when creating stories :)

@MakCurrel

3 жыл бұрын

@@HowtobeaGreatGM I think that people puts a very real life parallels between real life races and Fantasy races. And other wants them to be fantastical and not make allegories to real life. And then there's archetypes that can get used and misused, but is it one or two topics? I don't know it's is heavy themes to cower.

@TheGladGolem

3 жыл бұрын

@@MakCurrel An archetype is a literary construct: a repeating type of character that serves as shorthand to avoid overly granular exposition. Archetypes are now mistakenly called “tropes” thanks to the TV Tropes webpage. Stereotypes on the other hand are cultural constructs used to describe populations in shorthand. The problem with stereotypes is that they have historically been filtered through lenses of racism and xenophobia to mostly include negative views of the population in question. Even worse, no matter if they are positive or negative, they fossilize ideas that each individual belonging to that population must struggle and overcompensate for, in order to be seen as an individual. This makes for a life that is much harder, as your very identity is hard coded into the subconscious of the world at large and requires enormous expenditure of energy, time and patience to break down... for EACH individual.

@MakCurrel

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheGladGolem I agree to a large degree. But in fiction, I don't think it's always easy to distinguish between the two.

Soo, Ring (or any other home camera security service of your choice) notified a black family that a teenage girl had broken into their home, they then called the police and Goldilocks was arrested whilst sleeping in the a child’s bed. Charged with Breaking & Entering, Theft, and Vandalism, and Sexual Misconduct Toward a Minor.

I disagree on the point "If you say all red dragons are evil all your NPC are the same because they don't have free will". It's humanizing monsters and make them boring in my opinion. If a race of orcs is created by an evil god to spread chaos, you can think they are inherently evil even if they're intelligent. Or maybe a race of Space aliens who can't feel same emotions as humans. It's like if you said " Why a wolf couldn't become vegetarians"

I’m so sorry that you belong to a certain stereotype.. but embrace it, be proud! You are British, say it loud!

@larsdahl5528

3 жыл бұрын

Uhm... Guy is South African, with some Danish heritage.

I feel like "stereotypes make my job as a creative easier" is exactly the boring take I'd expect from an ironically sterotypical white nerd guy

Let's not forget that Tolkien established racism in fantasy, assigning darker skin characters (orcs) negative and evil traits. This also influenced DnD as Drow catch the same negativity. At the end of the day it is perpetuating the racist ideal that dark skin = bad.

@kevinmerrifield4767

3 жыл бұрын

"Tolkien established racism in fantasy" Lol. Sure right. I think you need to read it again. Tolkien's orcs are they way they are because they are MONSTERS, not people. That is what DnD copied. Only later on did Advanced DnD make it possible to play a half orc. Tolkien's Orcs are inspired by the Anglo Saxon Orcneas of Beowulf and the old French Ocre (Ogre), while Drow are ultimately inspired by the Dokkalfar of Norse Mythology. ...Again, both originally Monsters not people. Calling them "Dark" was a reference to their Evil nature, not their imagined skin colour.

Loved this video... the part of specially the one about stereotyping just being not inherently bad in an rpg game, since this is not literature...