I'm proud of you for not reinventing wheels on this project. Stick to researching which pre-existing inventions can prove to be helpful.

@InventorZahran

5 ай бұрын

Almost every good invention is made up of many existing ideas combined in a new way.

@polkazoochief1137

5 ай бұрын

I was hoping that the unnecessary marble distribution could be eliminated but so far so good.

@Wintergatan

5 ай бұрын

Thats definitely the plan! There will be occasions where i'll chose paths that appears contraintuitive as well. Sometimes out of being misinformed/wrong but other times for reasons that are clear to me but not so clear to the audience of the channel. But I am having a lot of fun with discovering the wisdom in the tried and tested routes. Thanks for your comment have a great day!

@philip_fletcher

5 ай бұрын

@@Wintergatan I notice the tried and tested gramophone had a thin felt pad rather than a thick foam pad - less likelihood of wear allowing the tempo to increase?

@PedroCoelho98

5 ай бұрын

​@@Wintergatanthe bearing housing from bolts? 😂😂 Keep up the good work! MM3 will come

The fact that the flyball governor plays "tighter" music is a big benefit, but can we all appreciate how great it is that the speed cab be adjusted on the fly?!?! That's a really big deal! This means that he can do tempo changes in the middle of a song.

@fletchro789

5 ай бұрын

Yes! It's huge! I'm not sure this was even on his "nice to have list"! But there it is.

@Ilikepapyrus

5 ай бұрын

If he makes it to the third marble machine, will it be the first time to possibly hear a music with a changing tempo on a marble machine? I don't think that you could do it with the MMX

@SuperCuriousFox

5 ай бұрын

@@Ilikepapyrusboth previous marble machines had a direct relation between crank turning speed and the song tempo, so Martin could already play at different tempo’s in the same song. He literally does this in the original marble machine video. But it wasn’t “tight” music, perhaps a new machine might offer the combination.

@Ilikepapyrus

5 ай бұрын

@@SuperCuriousFox ah ok thanks! Hope that we'll see the MM3, if it ever sees the light of day!

@Gabe1291

5 ай бұрын

Should be "simple" to implement as well. Just a lever with a few different stops on it and a cable linkage to shift the brake to pre-tuned positions, and tempo shift on the fly to see the shifts like we saw in the original marble machine song when he went from cranked play to manual play with the flip of a switch.

Just remember that you're using friction and foam together. Much like brake pads in a car, friction will wear the foam down over time and will need to be replaced at regular intervals

@DanielSabelnikov1

5 ай бұрын

I'd also be worried about fire hazard 😅

@Philip_J

5 ай бұрын

@@DanielSabelnikov1 Depends on the foam used, you can get some non flammable foam

@1815dmitriy

5 ай бұрын

with right materials it should not be a problem, as it is not a problem with gramophones.

@Lampe2020

5 ай бұрын

Well, the whole thing is a ton of moving parts, of course some things are going to wear down over time. One more thing wearing down isn't a big problem in this case, especially if some foam that doesn't fall apart at the slightest touch is used.

@motjuste8549

5 ай бұрын

I believe Gramophones used leather as a friction surface material and the discs were usually brass. I imagine steel would work for the disc as well.

Fun Fact: Flyball governors are the origin of the term "going balls-out." When your machine is "balls-out," it's going at full speed.

@musicbro8225

5 ай бұрын

Hah, that is cool to know! Nothing to do with other balls then ;)

@SmilingDevil

5 ай бұрын

Now HERE is some cool info!!

@JoeLion55

5 ай бұрын

Same with “balls to the wall”. It’s an aviation term for pushing controls, which used to have a little balls on the end of knobs or sticks, back to the “wall”, meaning full power

Before you fight the MM3, perhaps a good intermediate step would be a Marble drum machine? That way you can test everything as it's integrated together, and also have a cool machine to make some music with.

@1815dmitriy

5 ай бұрын

AFAIK this was the idea initially - to build a prototype with one channel (one instrument)

@rantingrodent416

5 ай бұрын

@@1815dmitriy that's basically what he's doing here, he pretty much just needs to add a marble return loop and he is running a full single channel proof of concept

@thejesse

5 ай бұрын

That's basically what the MMX ended up being.

@MorningDusk7734

5 ай бұрын

He's essentially already doing that, since each piece of the MM3 will end up a closed loop he can just build each loop separately and then connect them like LEGO sets. I'm still a little worried about how much strain this is going to put on the power drive shaft, depending on how thin it ends up.

@woosix7735

5 ай бұрын

+1 on that

"It uses marbles as a weight" Just in case it didn't already earn the title of *marble* machine with... everyting else

Ideally the test you need to do is one with variable load. e.g. switching between no marbles being played, to lots of marbles being played. This is the real struggle point for a machine like this. This is also where a flyball governor can be so much better. If the machine goes to fast (due to too low load), the friction can increase a lot to slow it down and clamp the tempo. If the machine goes to slow, the governor very quickly stops applying friction at all allowing the tempo to increase to where it needs to be. This very dramatic, almost step like response is what can make these governors so good. An air break governor could never do that anywhere near as good.

@The18107j

5 ай бұрын

I suspect that the foam's ability to compress is bad for a variable load. As the foam compresses, it allows the governor to change speed slightly. You probably want something with high friction that doesn't compress much.

@ineverknowdoyou

5 ай бұрын

​@@The18107ji think that instead of foam, he should use leather. this will allow it to have all the good parts of using foam, without as much compression. Also, in the final, the brake will be metal which will be much smoother, so a hard surface, or a foam will be worse imo

@tigerzero5216

5 ай бұрын

I agree. I'm posting a separate comment related to yours. The governor needs to,,, as Martin would say, be tight.

@sintanan469

5 ай бұрын

@@ineverknowdoyou Leather or felt. Most gramophones have some form of felt padding to reduce wear on the flyball governor. You're right, though -- leather would likely be the better choice for the larger machine that is the MM3.

@jeffreyblack666

5 ай бұрын

While I agree leather is better than foam, I'm wondering if for the full scale setup a commercial brake pad would work, as it will have a much larger mass to govern. That also comes with the added advantage of off the shelf parts and quick replacement.

My mouth literally fell open upon seeing the BPM results of the flyball governer with the foam. This shows how invested I am (and probably many others) into this project

As a stationary steam engine operator, it brings me immense joy seeing mechanical principles like Centrifugal Governor regulation of speed still being used today. Delightful work🇵🇲🦆👍

One of the tricks of the Flyball governor {or any active Governor) is if the flywheel is too big it has to work harder to "correct" the speed of the Flywheel. even the Gramophone/Victrola does not have a flywheel between the spring motor and the governor.

@pacboy5434

5 ай бұрын

i was thinking exactly that , does he even need a flywheel now ? The less "weight" the Flyball governor have to slow down , the better it will work , could be interesting to test it. That way he could even go into tempo faster and not whait 2 min each time when starting the machine

@miltonthecat2240

5 ай бұрын

@@pacboy5434 Yes, indeed, but that means it will be even more important to use control system design and analysis techniques to optimize the tempo-change response to be critically-damped or slightly over-damped; if the tempo governor system is under-damped, you might end up with the marble-machine equivalent of a Leslie speaker (unless that's a desired outcome...)

@Temperans

5 ай бұрын

@@pacboy5434 The flywheel is a giant mechanical battery. It allows him to play without having to input more energy. Without it the whole thing would grind to a halt fairly quickly.

@ducttapeengineer

5 ай бұрын

@@Temperans Except he's using the Huygen chain drive now, which means he can stop inputting power for a bit and it will continue to run at the same rate.

@MadScientist267

5 ай бұрын

It is good practice with low torque like this to drive the flywheel *via* the governor.

A break pad on a spring would probably also work. I think the foam is so much better because it allows for movement of the governor disk, while still breaking to different degrees. So when the speed is increased ever so slightly, it allows the governor to respond. Also it smooths out any wobbliness in the break disk. But your setup looks pretty sub-optimal when it comes to friction and stability. All the squeaky sounds are friction! So in the real machine it will probably be even better.

@1815dmitriy

5 ай бұрын

this is just "a prototype of a prototype" built from sticks and shit. The real prototype will have more rigid frame, proper axles and bearings.

@nako9790

5 ай бұрын

I think that even with a fix stop for the governor disk, the breaking is more or less important depending on how far from the speed target you are (the faster you are, higher the centrifugal forge, and thus the higher the force between the disk and the stop will be, which a better breaking). With a break pad on a spring, I think it would also increase the breaking force yes, but I am not sure it would be more efficient (it actually might be, I really don't know, I should write down the equations, but I have other things to do at 11pm). I think another thing that explains why it is more efficient with the foam is that the contact surface is smoother, like his disk is probably not perfectly flat so the stop and the disk might not be always in contact (at least not always with the same force in a single turn) and so it brings irregularities. I don't if I was clear enough or not, but I hope you understood the idea

@vbregier

5 ай бұрын

Problem of the foam, I think, is that it will wear out fast. Break pad on a spring seems a more robust solution, indeed. (with a long, soft spring, to smoothly control the breaking force)

@herpderp159

5 ай бұрын

Integrating this to a bicycle disk brake would be a good solution. It will be much more durable than a DIYed friction solution.

@bewilderbeestie

5 ай бұрын

I wonder if induction braking would be a good choice here? Permanent magnets on the stationary part, a metal disk on the rotating part. Rotational energy is converted to eddy currents in the disk which are then dissipated as heat. Super smooth, no parts have to touch each other, and the force varies depending on how close the magnets are to the disk which should enhance the self-regulating effect (which we're seeing in the foam).

"I should not try to reinvent the wheel." This-not the flyball governor-is your greatest breakthrough. Well done. I think things will go much more smoothly for you from here on. Much success to you!

Martin probably won't see this but I'll post it anyway. I think the flyball governor has an opportunity to be a beautiful centerpiece of the marble machine. I'm taking inspiration from the skyscraper Taipei 101 where the building is kept steady in the wind, earthquakes, etc. through the use of an enormous 18 foot diameter, 660 ton, steel sphere called a tuned mass damper. The tuned mass damper could have been hidden in the building but it has become a massive attraction. Obviously a flyball governor is at a very different scale, but even making it slightly oversized, it could be something that truly shows the machine at work from a distance. Another piece of inspiration is Andrew Bird's spinning Specimen Janus Horn Speakers. The spinning gramophone-looking horns really add to his stage presence and it has become a symbol for his live shows. Given that so much of the marble machine is going to be small parts moving small distances with the marbles, I think the flyball governor could be an opportunity to showcase the large movements. For an idea of what it could look like, there is a toy called a twirligig where the faster the toy spins, centripetal force causes the toy to change shape (usually it will be made up of ribbons but it could be anything). I'd love to see something like this.

@ShainAndrews

5 ай бұрын

Not even the same concept...

@alienm00sehunter

5 ай бұрын

It might be better to have something like this as a module that just plugs into the power train. That way to can be designed completely separately to look as cool as possible. Also different versions can be created and used for different tours or placed around the stage.

@musicbro8225

5 ай бұрын

I like this idea. Also making the governor bigger will increase it's mass and so it will be a dynamic flywheel. Imagine it painted or even with LED's in it, changing colours as it spins. The possibilities are huge.

@StazKodama

5 ай бұрын

⁠​⁠@@musicbro8225no LED's. It must be strictly mechanical or it loses some of its charme. But i agree it can look really cool. Imagine a cut out somewhere between Marble canals and the gouverner spins through that

@musicbro8225

5 ай бұрын

@@StazKodama Ok, let it make sparks then :)

Despite how bummed I was when he ended MMX, these small steps towards a new Marble Machine are getting me really hyped for what might come a couple years down the line.

@andyargentina7056

5 ай бұрын

MMXIV probably

@EATZYOWAFFLEZ

5 ай бұрын

*couple decades

@Digital-Dan

5 ай бұрын

I'm afraid that by the time he's done, he'll have re-invented electronic controls, and finally just simulating the whole thing in a computer. Where does the quaint mechanical end and the engineered technology begin?

@musicbro8225

5 ай бұрын

You echo my sentiments exactly. Whatever the projected timeline might be, this is solid progress!

@francescosirotti8178

5 ай бұрын

He's not actually solving any of the issues that made him scrap the MMX... I doubt he will end the project this time, but ad revenue is too sweet to quit

Of note, the original Victrola didnt use foam to break the flywheel, it used felt pads. I would be interested to see if felt provides a more durable and consistent material while still allowing some give.

@thingswelike

5 ай бұрын

Was it also on a sprung arm? I think there needs to be some movement allowed more than the thickness of felt.

Fun fact, flyball governors are where the term “balls out” comes from. I.E. “we’re going balls out on this one” Glad you got your governor set right Martin, this series has been seriously fun

@arcrad

5 ай бұрын

"Balls to the walls" too

@axiom1650

5 ай бұрын

Balls out for Harambe

There's a lot of tuning you can do with the fly-ball governor. Some positions in its throw are going to work better than others, just because of the mechanical linkages. Different flywheel weights, different spring pressures, etc can move that position around. Also be careful with wear and heat. Over a long concert, your brake material might wear or heat up, causing changes in tempo.

Use an eddy current brake with a magnet. 0 noise, 0 wear, and a more smooth brake. Though it might be harder to balance the exact bpm desired.

T i g h t m u s i c

@scoruluce

5 ай бұрын

Ho year, so T I g h t

@InventorZahran

5 ай бұрын

Uh, uh, uh! Yeah! Spread that tight *tempo!*

The obsession with "tighter" music is off the scale! Every time I think the quest is complete another "tighter music" video is uploaded!!!!

I applaud your ability to run that test rig with all that squeaking and not go crazy...

i love old mechanic. it's so simple but genius!

So glad you found this solution, I've heard of it but your demonstration was very good ^^ May I suggest something going forward with your project : safety precautions. With 3D printed parts spinning this fast, a little breaking point could make a weight go flying in any direction. I would say safety goggles at least but a direct hit could break a bone. Maybe at least don't stand or cross the plane of rotation as it would be the most likely area to be hit. Or enclose it in a sturdy box ^^ Especially with time and usage, I fear the 3D printed parts could deteriorate with this much strain. Still a great video, keep up the good work, we believe :)

It's a special kind of joy seeing you make memes to show how excited you are. Of course you're THE person behind the MM, but it get's to feel like a journey for all of us and we can share in your excitement. Really good vibes.

I think you should have the axis vertical so that the weights do not have uneven forces caused by the gravity during a single rotation of the axle. And as a bonus, you can get rid of springs if you use gravity to pull the disc away from the brake.

@cl4655

5 ай бұрын

Great idea

@1gnis1337

5 ай бұрын

I don't think it actually matters since the forces should be cancelled out if the weights are equidistant to each other

@bg6b7bft

5 ай бұрын

It would also contain what directions ball get flung should the part catastrophically fail at speed.

@keiyakins

5 ай бұрын

​@@bg6b7bft Wouldn't you want it spinning perpendicular to the audience for that? You'll get in trouble if your machine breaks and causes building damage, but you'll get in a lot *more* if it breaks and damages people.

@bg6b7bft

5 ай бұрын

@@keiyakins I was picturing it being low in the machine, so it could be shielded. Perpendicular probably mean he turns the flywheel in a safer direction, too. Good call.

I get that marbles on the floor and the mmx potentially (if very unlikely) exploding due to a stuck marble is a reason to start from scratch. What I do not get is this obsession with THIS level of tight music. Anyways, I‘m very glad martin is satisfied and the dream lives on!

@justinnaramor6050

4 ай бұрын

It needs to have the capability of playing very tight music first. If it's intentionally programmed to play with no timing deviations but fails to execute the music in that way, that's a problem. It needs to respond correctly to the operators actions (including the operator's own mistakes), otherwise it's an unreliable piece of junk at worst. It's like a keyboard dropping out notes even though you clearly instructed the keyboard to play said notes; no musician would ever want to deal with that! That is not the same thing as mistakes that are caused entirely by the human operator. If you were making a wood project using a CNC machine, wouldn't you rather have the mistakes be caused by you, the operator, not by the machine itself? If the machine induces its own errors completely independent from the instructions you give it, it's a piece of junk.

Martin you started as a song maker got to be a hobby crafter then mastered the cnc and cad making super cool but super impractical designs and now your chanel is turning into a engeniering, sience, music and mathmatics chanel that i my self have learned so much from. Thank you for the adventure Martin And lets hope that you beat the MM3 GOO WINTERGATAN🎉🎉

I have been watching you build and learn this whole machine from the beginning, and watched you scrap it twice. What a freaking rollercoaster. I have been emotionally invested since you kind of saved me while feeling imprisoned during Covid. Learning from the mechanical masterminds of the past and getting to the point where you truly understand their work and also how to implement it in your design, I’m almost tearful. You’re on the brink of creating something that will not only play “tight music,” but will be studied by generations as an example of what the marriage of modern technology and the past can achieve. It’s like learning from a grand master tradesman through the eyes of a journeyman. I can only think that this kind of dedication/obsession is what lead to the breakthroughs of things like the fly wheel. I was so skeptical about your obsession with “tight music” for a very long time, until I realized that you pretty much don’t want to make a marble machine until it can contend with the machines of the past. And with this, I finally get it. This is exactly what you wanted and needed to be able to proceed. You want to be a grand master. And that’s why I believe you’ll literally never abandon this project. Because while you have no master to teach you, you have the past, and you really do find joy in the creating of something truly historical. Somewhere in you, you know how monumental this is, and how important it is to all of us who have been following your journey, but more importantly, you’re collecting data on how to better control randomness, and man, I really do believe that when this machine is finished, on whatever version, you’ll have contributed SO MUCH DATA to scientists and researchers all over the world. Some of the machines you reference are literally their creators’ life works. You’re on that path to greatness. Never stop. Never give up. You’re on the path to doing something truly momentous.

In 1672, Pitstone Post Mill here in the UK was built, roughly. It uses a fly ball governor to regulate speed. If it can regulate the oldest surviving windmill in the UK then it is probably good enough for your needs. If you are ever in London visit the Science Museum. You will see tons of these governors and various designs of adjustment and brakes on the steam engine floor.

Oh My, I love that you're having so much focus on the systems that will make the tightness of your machines better, sesne that's your main focus!

Been watching for about maybe 2 years, I still cannot believe the progress you've made.

It's important to manage expectations, but I'm starting to believe in you again, Marten.

You mentioned something at 7:22 about how it seemed to find the tempo faster? I feel like that's something important to keep in mind to mitigate downtime between songs, or maybe maintaining tightness while changing tempo within a song? Being able to get up to speed faster is definitely a huge bonus.

@Beakerbite

5 ай бұрын

It would certainly reach tempo faster as it doesn't experience much of any braking force from the governor until it's at the desired speed, at which point the brakes engage. The air governor is continuously adding more and more resistance the faster it goes, but it applies resistance from the very first moment.

Really cool the marble music in vinyl ❤

Very happy to see you checking on the flyball governor. Let me also point out one nice part here, on the final machine you can save a lot of time and effort on the break by using existing parts. After all, break disks and pads from cars are made for exactly that purpose, quite resilient, cheap and made to be exchanged for when they are worn down. So using that you would not only save on production time, money but also on maintenance.

About time. Only been screaming about this ever since you started talking about regulating motion.

This is great for multiple reasons. Im mostly happy that this gives you a good way to adjust speed on-the-fly, although that would still be easier with a smaller flywheel. I'm really hoping you will do a test with a more dynamic load though. Imagine playing a big chord with multiple instruments, would that be able to slow down the music noticeably for the next few beats? Also if the governor works well, I think you should investigate how tight the input side should be. Smaller flywheel might be nice for faster tempo changes. Or maybe you can test being a bit less careful with the manual power your adding to the hyugen drive. Or maybe a spiral spring could work again, with the governor taking care of the non-constant force.

Can you make the stop block for the govenour adjustable (maybe in small intervals) then you can easily change the prefered bpm for each song quickly. Or even adjust within the song like in the original version when you cranked it by hand. Great progress ❤

@solinus7131

5 ай бұрын

I feel like that's another benefit of the flyball governor - unlike an air governor, flyball governors can be easily adjusted even when the machine is in motion by moving the brake pad. Original gramophones also allowed for the end user to easily adjust the speed since early records prior to the 1920s were recorded at slightly different speeds (76-80 rpm)

@Temperans

5 ай бұрын

Not only can he adjust it on the fly, but he can also have it labeled so that he always knows the current BPM.

Despite it definitely being a better idea to use pre-existing solutions. I really appreciate you still testing / trying others so that we plebs can understand WHY these solutions have been around 100 years, and WHY they're better than a more aesthetic choice. Part of the fun of the MMX build was going through these processes that people have solved before and coming to the same conclusions through experimentation, yes, it may be a waste of time in terms of achieving a working machine, but it's always a really fun process to watch you go through. :) Great work Marti.

It's never about reinventing the wheel, continual improvement is almost always the path forward. This is a beautiful example

*@Wintergatan* 2:34 You can put that clamp (or equivalent on finished product) on a screw (parallel to the governors rotation shaft), in that way you can turn a crank/knob/etc. to turn that screw, which controls the position of the clamp & that causes you to control the speed of the music on the fly, however you like :D

I love these videos going into specific details one at a time with prototyping and everything!

Still love watching these videos. Amazing to see the trial and errors, wins and loses, all adding up to victory!!

Yes. Finally, I have waited for this episode. Now i finally understand those contraptions on staem boats. Thanks 👍

For the first night of your (first!) World Tour, please bring on stage all those people who have contributed most significantly to this project so they can have the recognition they deserve, hear the cheering, feel the love. (After that, perhaps life-size cutouts will have to do.) Maybe with a special bow for the Holy Grail Divider.

@billkeithchannel

5 ай бұрын

Hey, somebody besides Martin needs to keep the crank going. He is going to be busy playing the bass guitar and other instruments.

I am so happy to be here for this project from the start. I was just a teenager when i started seeing your first marble machine on the internet and found it amazing. Learing now about the problems you faced, the dissatisafction you felt and all the various solutions you came up with that stil prove to be insufficient is very eye opening and inspiring honestly. I really, really, really hope this projet works out and my fascination with my fascination will possibly culminate in me seeing you perform live somewhere with the machine you work so hard on.

This channel is like an emotional roller coaster ride. Been watching it for years. Congrats Wintergarten on the new methodology.

Sometimes engineering is about finding what works best that someone else made and using that in your design. So proud of you growing from your bearing housing fiasco. You really are becoming a better engineer.

I think the reason why the foam brake pad is so much better is due to it dampening the subtle movements and wobble of the brake disk while still keeping the force constant. I also think that having a foam brake pad is better than a solid one in general because it will have much less wear on the mechanism, meaning that the braking system will last longer without replacement parts. And considering this is a test rig, I think that in the machine it will smooth out the already subtle variation with its increased weight. Congratulations on not trying to reinvent the wheel, can't wait for the next video!

Fantastic! Don't forget to add a clock-out pulse from the new machine since your machine will literally be the clock.

@evanbarnes9984

5 ай бұрын

That would be great! He could convert it to MIDI so he could do something wild like play the MM3 alongside a modular synthesis rack and use the marble machine as the clock source. He should pair up with Look Mum No Computer!

Excellent! So glad to see what looks like a solid solution to the speed governor issue. And lovely that it goes back to how this issue was solved on another kind of device for playing music over 100 years ago.

I'm jealous of your sense of purpose and the growth it necessitates. I see your work as aspirational. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I love that Martin is beginning to feel more and more optimistic with each minor step. And his enthusiasm carries us along - we may YET see the Marble machine in concert!

Love that old piano version of the original MM song :)

@m10653

5 ай бұрын

Do you happen to know where it is from or is a longer version exists of it?

This was an amazing gramophone lesson, glad you haven’t given up on the marble machines!!! Take as long as you need for this masterpiece!

The first issue that comes to my mind is durability. That is not meant to be a permanent piece the break disc. And it would be the first one piece that will require to be changed every now and then in the entire machine, the disc or the foam.

Should give a try with felt pads! The foam works great but I feel like friction will wind up ablating it over time. over long periods of time (Like a world tour :3 ) this could gradually change the BPM the governor settles at per position of the brake. Felt won't have that problem.

@TijmenZwaan

5 ай бұрын

I agree that he should probably use a different material, but as long as the pad is easily replaceable, it doesn't have to last for a full tour. It just needs to last for a single live performance, after which you can just swap out the friction pad for the next show.

@AlexandruVoda

5 ай бұрын

Maybe felt on top foam. This way the foam still behaves like a spring and the felt behaves like a durable and replaceable break pad.

@andrewkepert923

5 ай бұрын

Bike / car / motorbike disc brakes are engineered for this job, including durable discs and easily replaceable pads. They also have increasing friction with increasing input force, which helps stability, like the foam does. So calculate how much energy needs to be dissipated, choose the existing tech that’s up to that task.

@AlexandruVoda

5 ай бұрын

@@andrewkepert923 On the one hand using bike disc breaks seems like a wonderful way to simplify things (yay for more bike parts like the bowden cables). On the other hand I wonder if they would produce noise and how much. Noise doesn't matter that much when breaking a bike but a continuous screech in the background of a musical instrument is obviously not desirable. I'm not knowledgeable about bike mechanics so no idea how bad it would be.

@andrewkepert923

5 ай бұрын

@@AlexandruVoda Agreed about bowden cables. WRT noise, on a bicycle, disc brakes are a lot quieter than rim brakes. They're more precise ... and attract less mud, which shouldn't be an issue here. Car or motorbike brakes are usually quiet except in extreme braking or if the discs or pads are in bad shape. It can also live in a housing if it's still too noisy. I suspect the best solution would be to buy an off-the-shelf mechanical governor that does all of the above and has been optimised (by someone smarter than either of us) for a suitable range of speeds and loads. I'd bet it would be cheaper, easier and more reliable. But where would be the fun in that?

Consider using %Relative Standard Deviation (%RSD) in situations where the tempo is different between these types of experiments. This will make the results better comparable, as higher BPM experiments will always have a higher SD, and lower tempo = lower SD - even if the true variability of the system is exactly the same. Using RSD will eliminate this issue as it will standardise the results. %RSD=SD*100/Average Still great results though!

@NiDeCo

5 ай бұрын

I was going to comment about this too. Do the first experiment again but at 10 BPM, it'll probably have a SD of < 0.2 BPM (maybe even < 0.1 BPM). That doesn't tell you anything about which is better, just that you did the test with a LOT of margin for error. (or you should just measure the milliseconds deviation, because that's what actually tells you how tight it is)

"Captain Picard, they're closing in on us!" "Keep calm, set Hygens-drive to 6.8, recalibrate flywheel-governor and adjust marble dividers! Make it so!"

This must have been a real life homer simpson doh moment. Sometimes the best most obvious solutions are the hardest to find. Congrats on making such a huge leap forward with the project.

I’d like to see how this handles a variable load. Like, just grab the output shaft a bit and see what happens. Sometimes you’ll be lifting 10 marbles, sometimes 40.

@justinnaramor6050

4 ай бұрын

The marble lift could always have a separate, independent power source as an option. Other folks have already suggested it. That way the number of marbles lifted can pretty much be the same, and it's only the number of marbles dropped that's really that important. The power source for the marble lift could even be active even when music isn't even playing, perhaps.

I wonder if the massive flywheel is necessary or if it can be less heavy with a flywheel governor 🤔

@billkeithchannel

5 ай бұрын

The flywheel needs to keep up its inertia because it will be moving a lot of rotating parts.

@warmwater9509

5 ай бұрын

I mean, it looks cooler when it's large, and while this time it's function > form, you don't lose any function and yet you gain form, so why not keep it large?

@sirsanti8408

5 ай бұрын

@@warmwater9509well the function of a flywheel is to store momentum, the larger the wheel the more momentum it can store,

@lasskinn474

5 ай бұрын

@@sirsanti8408 yes it's(flywheel) supposed to be a capacitor of sorts, not a regulator, though I think Martin thinks of it as a regulator. there's some books that would have the mechanisms to regulate the speed by using a sort of a differential to not lose as much energy by crude top limit braking.

when i doubt of my self, and all the efforts.... you came and isnpire me!!! THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!! Keep going, you are awesome.

Congratulations, Martin! Researching existing solutions really paid off today.

I wonder if there might be improvements with a range of materials inducing friction on the brake wheel. It would make sense that the higher the friction coefficient the greater the speed of the feedback loop, but as you have said everything must be tested. Maybe if you can find an old car tire it might work even better than the foam did in this experiment.

using the marbles as weights for a part in the marble machine is really ironic

it's nice that you have moved from, "If this doesn't play tight music then the marble machine project is over" to now asking, "can this machine play tighter music" cause we know between the human element and the mechanical elements we have seen the music can be tight. Now you ask how tight can we get it, like asking what is the absolute limit of tight music play via this machine can it play tight music all the way from 1bpm to 300 and all the way in between, it's so cool to watch as you go from discouraged to inspired! I hope this message was positive and that you stay motivated to continue, I don't have means to contribute but I do love that a community of very knowledgeable people are all helping to make this dream come true. be really cool to see you live!

often using the old methods demonstrate why they endured. this governor is something used in machines before used in the phonograph, so it was understood why this fixes this problem. bravo sir!🎉

I noticed that the wood for the flywheel was bouncing. To make sure your tests are not impacted by this you should probably make it a little stronger.

@chrismichaelyoung

5 ай бұрын

I like to keep in mind that this is still a prototype, so the fact it's playing this tight already while still being made from mostly wood and plastic is amazing. We already know he's capable of machining relatively precise flywheels since he learned how to properly turn metal on a lathe.

@xs8067

5 ай бұрын

@@chrismichaelyoung this is true. I was just thinking he may run into an issue that was caused by this bouncing. Example the foam may work better now with the bounce but when he eliminates the bounce it may be better with a handle. I have no experience in music or engineering just home projects and found that the little things come back to bite you. I would hate to see this project come to an end because of something like that

@chrismichaelyoung

5 ай бұрын

@@xs8067 I did notice that the brake force on the gramophone was being applied by what looked like a small piece of felt. I think the greater surface area of the foam worked so well on the plastic rotor since it also isn't machined and the foam could deform to the irregularities and provide a more consistent contact patch, whereas the clamp handle wasn't enough to stay consistent and absorb the shock of the rest of the system. Certainly more tests should be done for the final assembly to find the right braking material that balances friction, shock absorption, and durability.

Your flywheel is going to be VERY heavy, so you would need a huge flywheel governor to apply enough friction to the brake to keep tempo. A better solution would be to have a brake at the edge of the flywheel itself that is activated by the flywheel governor. You could then amplify the braking force using leverage such that a large movement in the governor imparts a small but more powerful movement to the brake. You could even use an automotive brake caliper and master cylinder if hydraulics are allowed (still mechanical).

Something to keep in mind, the Friction itself isnt needed and will just wear out the part. You don't need any friction at all. You just need to prevent the brake from moving to the left. I'd investigate using oil or rollers to minimize friction.

@GISED_Link

5 ай бұрын

or use a bearing on this part so the inner piece can rotate freely and the stop stays still?

When I saw your video about he air resistance device I had already wondered why you didn't use a governor! I am glad you discovered this very dependable piece of kit.

im a little confused why you didnt test the same bpm for every test. Still a great video, but would like to see consistent variables across all tests

@lefterismplanas4977

5 ай бұрын

It didn't matter what the bpm was, sense that can be configured. What matters is if that bpm is consistent using the part in question

@cdd449

5 ай бұрын

I think it does matter because at a higher BPM there is a change there is a higher variance of bpm. (When you look at it from a % perspective you can see he used the 75% vs 25% to determine it was 3x better.) If you run them all at 160 BPM maybe the variance % remains higher close to the 75% while at a lower bpm it is closer to the 25%? For each version, he lowered the BPM and the variance decreased, you've added the bpm as a factor rather than removing it by keeping a constant BPM. The foam flyball governor is problem better but I would guess it's less than 10x better, just because the BPM variance.@@lefterismplanas4977

Gods speed Martin!!! ;) I´m following from Denmark. The Flyball Governor is a huge leap for the machine! Congratulations!

I watch the video with such experience and empathy that every half minute I get the idea to press the like button, and then I realize that I did it a long time ago. Thank you very much for the experience and I heartily congratulate you on the success of the project!

@squirrelwood8008

5 ай бұрын

I go by a very simple rule: The like button must be pressed before the video even starts.

@vegandr.u_mme_rprefRR

5 ай бұрын

@@squirrelwood8008 😅 Reflexively, I would do the same, but then I would feel like a blind fanatic and I like to be honest, so I wait until I watch the video and judge that I really like it. I always like it though, so I might actually press it before I look at it. 🙈🙊🤭

Martin, I just love you. Every week you are giving me so much joy, I've been following your journey since the beginning and it's worth the wait. This is not about the end goal, It's about the journey. You've learned so much through those projects and you taught us allong the way. Thank you !

The result of having very perfectionist is that your project is never ending. Imagine building the marble machine x for how many months and years and it did not finished, and building a new one again.

Martin, I'm absolutely stoked and inspired that you're going through with this and the attention to detail, I've been following since the build up to the X. I think you might nail it with this iteration of the machine, and I'm really glad you didn't give up!

Lol just as I was typing "don't reinvent the wheel" you were saying it in the video XD . Good to see you making so much progress in the prototyping.

Okay, this was a genuinely lovely mix of old and new

I'm happy for you! I used to have a similar problem, except that I was more hardheaded. I thought that I would do everything by myself, and it just made everything I did very difficult. I learned that it's best to be humble about the place you are in, and use help when you can get it! Don't try to do everything by yourself. It's not a good way to go about things, and it will keep you from getting things done in the end.

My god Martin, this is some exciting stuff! The future of the marble machine is looking a LOT brighter and I'm super excited to one day see the final version ^^

I've been yelling this solution at my screen since your first governor video. Thank you for finally building it. Also, it's a *braking* disk. Not a breaking disk.

Nice. Every video from him just makes me love this guy even more. Mechanisms, music, explanations = just plain awesome.

Tried and tested solutions , fabulous! Great breakthrough Martin!

Wintergaten, the only channel which performs its own music montages

I was wondering why the squishy foam was better, but then I realized that its job is to break and not to prevent the disc from moving further left.

I think it might be interesting for you to look into the Thorens TD 124 record player. It uses a dipole motor turning at twice the rate of the Hz coming from your AC outlet. This motor uses a belt to spin an aluminum disk. The belt is flexible and the stretch of the belt makes the peaks and valleys of the wave smaller. There is an aluminum wheel that is connected to the belt, which has an eddy current brake on it, which makes the speed even smoother. Finally there is an idler wheel connected to the aluminum disk, which turns a big and heavy platter. The combination of these technologies managed to turn a wavy 50 Hz AC power source into an extremely smooth running turntable. Even though the turntable is from the 1960’s, it’s still one of the best ever made. This technology might help you get rid of the waves in your tight pattern.

I recently took apart a gramophone and seeing it work in this way was mind blowing.. such an elegant design. I'm glad this worked so well for you. This seems like a pivotal moment.

Very impressive for a machine that is essentially cobbled together plywood and 3d prints! Imagine the precision with steel and machining

The flyball governor was used in industrial applications and were regulated with gravity intead of friction. The weights were mounted on a vertical shaft and the lever arms were ajustable in lenght to get the desired rpm

This is fascinating: prototypes, tests and results all laid out neatly before us. I salute your work and determination, and I'm grateful that you distill it for us like this.

What an excellent innovation! My Dad always said, "It's not research and development. It's search and RE-development."

God this channel is back and so much better than ever.

i literally raised up my hands like martin on the end when saw the foam graph!! i feel sooooo happy about those results!!!

So happy for you! Love the direction the project is taking!

your videos are so inspiring!! keep going Marin!!

watching the evolution has been inspiring, and continues to inspire.

As a 3D-printing enthusiast, it is awesome to see the whole prototype from power input to marble drop made possible by this technology! And in this quality level also. Keep it up Martin, already excited what we'll see at the next fan meetup!

Starting from scratch can lead to new better approaches, but there's so much to be achieved here that it is wise to pick your battles and move on to focus on other areas when there's more to be done and you already got a good enough solution and isn't progressing much on the current focus.