How did F1's Trick Dual Rate Suspension Work?
Автокөліктер мен көлік құралдары
In previous years, many systems were run across the grid that allowed the rear ends of F1 cars to drop rapidly once they were on the straights. While they don't appear to be in use this season, it is certainly an interesting system to discuss. While there have been many complex theories thrown around about how it works, the reality is much more simple.
00:00 Introduction
00:54 Why do you want to drop the rear end?
03:40 Spring effects and objectives
06:00 Practical demonstration of a dual-rate system
10:08 Why aren't they used this year?
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Пікірлер: 161
Sorry guys I know it's been a while! I've been working on some really exciting aero projects, but it has been taking a huge amount of my time, which leaves very little spare for KZread unfortunately. Hope you enjoy the video!
@SBA_poiko
Жыл бұрын
Unless there's like an NDA or something involved you could potentially turn those projects into future videos. I mean you've obviously considered that. But pretty sure everyone here would enjoy that
@KYLEENGINEERS
Жыл бұрын
@@SBA_poiko Yep most of them are under NDA, so I'm afraid that's a no go until we see some releases!
@leoarc1061
Жыл бұрын
Don't worry too much about it. Your job comes first. There isn't time for everything. Best regards from Europe.
@Cerberus984
Жыл бұрын
@@KYLEENGINEERS What ever happened to your Subaru powered dune buggy?
@FEARYOYOYO
Жыл бұрын
Don't be sorry. I'm sure your real work is much more satisfying than the youtube stuff. :D
I wouldn't have thought of it, even as you were leading us down that path. Impressive. I thought they might be using a lever/rocker that goes over centre and collapses then hits a bump stop.
@stephensegal5187
5 ай бұрын
Another option with your design would be to add opposing magnets to what you already mentioned for the perfect amount of stability of a "soft bottom". 😀
Seems such a simple idea when you explain and show it, but I'd certainly never have thought of it. Great video
This is remarkable, can't believe you don't have millions more views! Feel like I learn so much everytime I watch your vids, thanks mate.
@stephensegal5187
5 ай бұрын
Let the DTS contingent whine about Max winning all the time while We are learning why Adrian sorted this out on the RB18 first before building the RB19...... The Mercedes Engineers should be watching this! Haha! 😂
Yes! Another Kyle video! You should post more often. Your insights are way too valuable to not be shared. Many thanks for another great video.
Great video man. I do structural dynamics for an aerospace application. Your explanations simultaneously provide enough technical detail for somebody with technical experience but are also approachable for the layperson. Way to go. Good stuff.
@stephensegal5187
5 ай бұрын
Amen! 😀
The visualization is very cool. I never understood how preload differed from spring rate, that’s wild
What an awesome demonstration there man. Thanks so much!
Nice to see a new video, I love your explanations. Early in the F1 season and in the preseason your work was the best of any I saw.
Woah! What a nice vid! Its much more simple than I expected! Maybe hard to tune, but, aweseome! thanks for sharing!
Absolutely brilliant video. Thanks so much for creating it and expanding our understanding.
awesome explanation and visualisation of the suspension
Absolutely amazing video. Great explanation! This was so good🤯!! Keep it up!!!👏👏👏👍
Uncovered this channel unfortunately just a few seconds ago. Really like engineering explained easily. 👌👌👌
Excellent as always! Thank you very much for this invaluable information!!!
Another fantastic video from Kyle! Thanks for the insight!
hope for more videos coming soon, definitely a best 2022 KZreadr award winner
You are one of the best explainers on KZread! Brilliant!
Dude went from engineering a super weird suspension for the Mercedes F1 team to teaching me about set suspension on youtube. Great work dude (from a mechanical engineering student).
Same technology used on the front suspension of my MX quad 15 years ago. Actually my fronts were triple rate PEP shocks dual compression and rebound dampening. Surprising F1 took that long to implement this.
Really enjoyed that video thanks - helped tease apart the concepts of spring rate vs preload in my brain :)
Thanks for sharing this knowledge my friend! Great explanation & keep up the good work. Liked & subbed!😁👍🏼
Incredible demo!
WOW! Incredible, blows my mind seeing the dual rate demo in action, you f1 minds are mental.
nice to see pre-load working within a given stiffness window of the stiffer spring
damn that was an informative video!! really great to get such insight, in great illustrative demonstration!
Fantastic video, you're a goldmine mate. Cheers
Very clear and cool explanation
Great demonstration of preload Kyle!
A MAI ZING Explanation mate!
Another great vid, thank you kyle
I learned something new today. good job.
Great video Thanks for making
Great simplification Thanks
Very good demo!
This was awesome, thank you!
Very good explanation!
Very interesting. Great video
Awesome explanation
Great job with the model to show the way it works
This is some incredible engineering. Thank you
interesting the amount of trickery that goes into extracting every bit of power out of this cars is simply amazing
Thanks for the content!
that was a really great video and demonstration ! just one thought: I think putting the spring-device down on the table or sth would have made it a little bit better to see the movement since your 'stationary hand' was moving a little
Hello Kyle! Nice to see your content after a while! Could you make a video about aeroelastic tailoring in f1? It can be about areas of applications, or how can they design the wing to pass the static tests yet still display flexing in racing scenarios, or what kind of programs and techniques are used to model aerodynamic loads given the flexibility of the aerodynamic devices.
@inyamuthafuckinface
Жыл бұрын
Good idea!
Duuude! You're my freaking hero! I literally was designing my own supercar. I was literally telling myself I needed a more aerodynamics for it. And I wish I had a F1 engineer, if I ever make it. I'd love to have you, paid for every consultation. Thank you for the free content! Subscribed and addicted!
wow! Thank you for the vid!
This whole time I was thinking it was clever work with the rocker geometry. This is so much simpler. Thanks for saving me from myself.
You the man Kyle , I was subscribed to you and for some reason YT unsubscribed me.
Brielliant explanation! I want one of these things, but in reverse, on my mountainbike
Dual rate spring setups are extremely common in the offroad world. However, they are set up with the slider on the other side of the stop. This gives an increasing spring rate that is softer at ride height but with ability to take a bigger hit when needed. They do avoid fully compressing the springs. It also helps the springs themselves have reasonable rate despite having a large displacement at ride height.
That was the first video from you I 100% understood
I remember this being likened to the struts on a car's hatch. Blows my mind that technology like that can just plunk its way I something like F1
Some V8 supercar teams did this in the late 00's and early teens and this resulted in a control spring being introduced. Also we just called it a twin spring because that is what it is essentially.
Lovely video.
This is realy interesting! Awesome video and great explanation. :) One thing i was wondering when you were talking about the teams thinking about the cars wake: Have any teams made an effort to create as much dirty air as possible to make it harder to overtake them? Surely that would be a compromise with drag but it could be an advantage.
@troythegardener
Жыл бұрын
I wouldn't be surprised if teams were doing it this season particularly where following has become much easier! Assuming of course that there are no negative impacts on car performance..
@armadillolover99
Жыл бұрын
I don’t think teams are doing anything just to make it harder to follow their cars, but I do think that there are teams utilizing loopholes in the rules to do things that they know will leave dirty air in their wake (like the Aston Martin rear wing design). At this point you wouldn’t want to use one of those kinds of loopholes in the rules if there isn’t a significant performance gain to be had, it would it be a waste of resources. I think teams do maybe look a little towards dirty air as a side benefit to some advancements they make, but I don’t think it’s enough of a competitive advantage to just be seeking it out.
Amazing video.
Kyle, we all really enjoyed your Analysis on the F1 Cars when they were presented. I think it would be great if you now would do an Analysis about these cars(or the cars of the three Topteams) now. Their developements, their concepts and how it worked. Particularly interesting i think would be the RB18 and the F1-75 because of their totally different concepts. The Ferrari, a "real" ground effect car with great solutions in that regard, and the Red Bull. A car that works more like a flat-floor car with still some rake, its "high-roof"-tunnels, the vortices creator and the opened sidwalls of the diffuser which allows the vortices to get energised by air coming from the top of the floor. It would be really interesting if you analyse these two cars and maybe the Mercedes with todays knowledge.
Just great. Thank you.
very good video, thank you.
Loved it!
Pretty sure Aussie supercars have ran something to that effect but similar to your demo model with the springs, never fully understood how it was achieved but you've given me a better idea at least, would be really interesting if you touched on that, your F1 tech videos are great, would be nice if that could at some point expand into other forms of Motorsport such as the Aussie supercars or GT racing.
love your vids as always, but do you have a way to put the background black instead of white on your simulations and 3D's? it would help a lot when watching in the dark
I wonder if red bull are still employing this philosophy with the new gen cars but with mechanical springs as you demonstrated, seems they are still employing a somewhat high rake setup.
Amazing mate amazing
So is the preload quickly adjustable? My first thought is servos. Hmmmm this is fascinating. Ya know I don't see complicated suspension systems in street cars all that often. I have been more and more intrigued by the idea of pushrod or magnetic suspension. This is a very simple display. Thank you!
Interesting vid, never thought about preload that way before. Do you have a perspective that can be shared about Mercedes F1 challenges this year? Is the unique side pod concept a source of their problems of something more basic?
It’s reveal season Kyle, get ready for the videos 😁😁
It would be awesome to see what advice or technical improvements you could offer to Rob Dahm's 4 rotor project. That car would greatly benefit from your aero and suspension knowledge, to match it's brutish drivetrain.
@RedGandalf
Жыл бұрын
@UCRNUMdul_nryQfE83GGUIpg You make good points, but they're not applicable. The Wankel is the whole point of the car. Look up Rob Dahm's channel here on YT to see what I'm talking about.
Wonderful video. Could it be useful to have a ground effect car add rake in the straights so the floor” releases” to reduce drag?
Do you think you could do a video o F1 sidepods? Maybe comparing different philosophies and how each might work the tire wake away?
Nice video! It would be cool if you could bring some real life examples with their actual systems/graphs/ecc. and discuss them. Not only F1 since it’s quite impossible to access such information, but also road (sports)cars or even cars you are working with if it’s possible. And I’ve a question: what programs did/do you use to analyze all the mathematical stuff? I’m currently studying mechanical engineering, I’ve recently completed a MatLab course and i was wondering if it would be an actual useful tool for my future career
@KYLEENGINEERS
Жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed the video! If I was you I would learn Python, your Matlab knowledge should translate across to it well but python is free and has great community support too!
Kyle, could you do a video of f1 brake ducts? What ferrari worked out in the late 90s, how that changed the game, and what effect it has on the car aerodynamically. :)
I recently had an idea similar to this. If I add a preloaded spring or a rubber bushing to a rear wing mount/stand, I can make a active rear wing with very simple design.
@GreatistheWorld
Жыл бұрын
There has to be examples of this tried before right? Interesting
he's back
That's a very cool demonstration. Got a question though, so does that mean preload effectively changes the spring rates? Have read a lot about preload and there are different opinions whether preloading a spring actually changes the spring rates. I understand in your video you said preload doesn't actually change the K constant (and therefore spring rate) but then in the model, after stacking the collars, it looks like it takes more force to compress the shaft, so that seems to suggest the spring rates have actually increased?
very nice👍
That's a very impressive model and mesh of the previous gen regulations. Is it based on the leaked Williams CAD or of your own design from the technical regulations? Very informative video!
@inyamuthafuckinface
Жыл бұрын
Was also wondering! But I think its from him. He's such a talented guy!
You and Eddie Woo have to crossover. Engineering is so simple. Yet so complex.
RBR uses a single structure on its top front wishbone. Last season, I believe they used such setup, but on the bottom wishbone instead. Why are they going that route? Simply weight saving? Or are they using it to affect roll characteristics? Many thanks.
Very interesting stuff 6:04 have you considered making those dual rate files available on thingiverse? I’d love to play around with sprint rates and build further around it
Whats your favorite chasis and engine to use for motorsports. Mine is probably the AP2 S2000
brilliant!
Is it legal to have some sort of reed valve or a moving under force valve to allow a floor to sort of breathe when it’s put under load ? Maybe use them particular moving under load parts to wash stuff ? I’m not a wiz kid but it’s a 2 stroke process but I’m pretty sure somewhere along that plain is a happy medium 😮
How do you get proper damping for the whole range of travel using a dual rate spring? Is it just a compromise between damping the two individual rates? It seems like you would need some kind of progressive damping for such a system.
Please do a video about the mcmurtry spéirling
As a supposition and option of using a torsion bars with a dual spring rate capability, what if the torsion bar had three sets of splines located longitudinally, with two of the splines being located traditionally at the ends and the third spline be located at some percentage of the length, so that a arm at that location would bottom on a dampened stop before full rotation of the torsion bar for range of suspension travel, having the effect of shortening the torsion bar, for a secondary increase in spring rate, the dampened stop providing a progressive transition from the lower to the higher spring rate?
At the Japan GP Vettel said he saw the RedBull cars b do just that ´the rear end colaps on the straigts.. any toghts?
Can you judge the gen3 formula e car? I'd greatly appreciate it
Hello, Kyle! Your videos are always fascinating to watch. There are rumours around this year’s red bull having some kind of suspension trickery in order to have better straight line speed like the past generation of cars. What’s your opinion on this?
Thanks.
Nice
i hope you will review the Ferrari 499P
Great you're back. Could you please go over the Mythbusters golfdimple car?
can you do an explanation of the ferrari 499p?
Can dual rate suspension be used to reduce porpoising? IIRC Ferrari has a dual spring rear suspension this year but other teams do not
Where did you get that f1 car 3d model?
@cf2081
Жыл бұрын
He probably just did it in his spare time
"I was an engineer for Mercedes in '18, '19, and '20." In other words, this man leaving Mercedes is responsible for Max's 2021 championship.
Why did they feel the need to ban pneumatic springs? If it's on cost grounds, the teams already have a development budget, so why not just let them chose which parts of the car to focus their resources on?
Crystal clear