As a fan of both Night Lords and Iron Warriors, seeing them both in the top tier makes me very happy.

@blackbriargaming5483

Жыл бұрын

Night Lords certainly deserve their time in the sun/darkness 😊

Thank whatever star you were born under that I have a sense of humor. My Legion were the chosen of the Emperor in the days when he still deserved our service.

@thebloodsonofsanguinius9489

2 жыл бұрын

Hey it’s me favorite uncle

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Ha ha, just call 'em like I see 'em :P

@Scarytoaster1809

Жыл бұрын

Look, I told you NOT to touch the magic sword. What did you do? You touched the magic sword. Whatever happens, it's your own fault

death guard are easily the best traitor legion. being able to equip every squad with rad grenades is super powerful. a chain bayonet and rad grenades is the equivalent to a heavy chainsword and rad grenades and a power scythe means you're doubling T4 stuff out at initiative. tactical squads have fury of the legion turned on all the time which makes them a pretty decant unit and not a 200-400 point tax. heavy support squads with relentless multi meltas will delete anything you point them at and and alchem flamer support squads are basically unchargeable and will delete most things except large squads of terminators through forcing your opponent to roll so many saving throws

A qiuck note about the SoH rite, your opponent doesnt have to be locked in combat to give you rage, they give it if they have been the target of a charge. So if you have a melta support squad at 12" range you can declare a charge with them, and give your other units the rage bonus.

@chriseyler9059

2 жыл бұрын

Yup, the charge doesn't even have to succeed to give the other unit Rage (2)

As a Night Lords player, I am SUPER happy with the love they’ve gotten this edition.

I think your assessment of The NL only works if Konrad is taken. Bloody Murder isn't available to non legion specifics that aren't IC's. Only Konrad can do that. Pair that with the Night Vision point reductions he dishes out and you start to see the army go from 0 to 100. If you want Bloody Murder on dnoughts, only Konrad can do that. If you want NV on Javelins who you can't cheese with a Prey sight apothecary, Konrad can do that. If you want fear (3) on turn 1, only Konrad can do that. His mobility makes his aura far easier to control, and he can outbox the majority of things that can catch him.

The guys from Sector Wargaming attented a HH 2.0 tournament recently and made a video about their experiences. There were also a couple of EC players present and their armies were no pushovers. This is the edition of terminators and contemptors. The EC´s ability to boost initiative is really crucial in combat where sweeps will guarantee the removals of opposing units at once. Also any powerful melee weapon of I1 becomes suddenly I2 is a factor which is not trivial. Therefore I think you misjudged EC as they are at least a solid mid-tier force. Same applies to the SoH. Their increased survivability in regards to W2 troops is phenomenal. Couple this with WS5 terminators and you have a terrifying death star as the hand-to-hand weapon table has been reworked for this edition. So this would mean the SoH would rather belong in the top-tier category.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

I reckon any tier Legion can consistently take on any other. The game is balanced enough that you're never out of the game before it starts. Objectively, does that I2 trick put Emperor's Children above Sons of Horus, World Eaters or Word Bearers? No. I don't think so. But great to see that people are making them work with sub-par Legion rules! Army building and how you play on the table is definitely more important than rules in Heresy and that can only be a good thing.

@AirsoftAddicted

Жыл бұрын

Sons of horus sucks. In short. They are bottom, just because all their rules are against this edition.

@blackbriargaming5483

Жыл бұрын

@@AirsoftAddicted even worse than Thousand Sons...?

@AirsoftAddicted

Жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 heh, got me here :) No, I don't think they are worse than 1kSons, but I believe it's the same crap.

Thank you for the video as always 😁

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

My pleasure! ☺

Me, who started painting Thousand Sons and Loyalist Emperor's Children for lore and aesthetic reasons, getting notified for this video: :D Me, 5 minutes into the video: D: Will give them my best shot regardless.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Awesome! And honestly it comes down to how you build those armies. They can still have a great showing on the table, this is all about how the Legions compare in isolation of army builds, which honestly have such a greater impact. Unless you build an army full of Kakophoni. Then you're stuffed. Lol.

@bequakynskagroupie3751

2 жыл бұрын

Same

Love the sarcasm in this video. Most people won't be able to pick up on it but this is S tier comedy.

Maybe SoH advanced reaction should be taken while you’re trying to pull off a charge with multiple units in your next turn. You can sort of soften the enemy up, and then annihilate it. SoH units also have quite good base stats and few restrictions.

The fact that NL are so strong in HH blows my mind. I've played 40k for years now with the NL having zero special units and garbage rules. I didn't even want them to be the "top" army but just good enough to where I could play a fluffy list and have fun without getting absolutely crushed. To make my games semi-competitive I was having to take a Knight, disco-lord and was already using Forgeworld Dreads. While I love my NL Knight, it's just not consistent with their lore and I never felt my 40k army was even an actual NL army in terms of how I had to play it lol. I've been adding to my existing NL 30k models and eagerly await the day when I will start enjoying playing my favorite legion.

One small remark about Sons of Horus and ramming. It can be used to boost their rite of war, where unit get's Rage (2) if charging as 2nd squad into combat - so... charge with rhino, get extra 3 hits, and than charge with Reavers for maximum profits.

Not gonna lie, i was genuinely expecting to hear NLs coming in mid tier…but that could be because i was comparing them with loyalist legions which seem to be just straight up bonkers. That being said, having played my NL on the table top and seeing how great the synergies are, i feel they are definitely a sleeper hit. Incredibly powerful if played correctly.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Yeeeaaah. I was thinking about a tier list with both loyal and traitor. Loyalists take at least the top three spots...

@KaosKittyStudios

2 жыл бұрын

Our legion is not easy to play, but strong and fun when u get it down.

@sahaynam6470

2 жыл бұрын

I just got into the game and am slowly building up a NL force. Have a 2k terror assault list almost done, but when I move up to 3k thinking hard about going with Sevatar and Pride of the Legion. Deep striking terminators backed up by some recon marines, a vigilator, and a few dreads seems like a brutal combo

@KaosKittyStudios

2 жыл бұрын

@@sahaynam6470 awesome! Welcome to the Legiom, Ave Dominus Nox, of you have discord im on a pretty active NL server, we are very new ayer friendly

@sahaynam6470

2 жыл бұрын

@@KaosKittyStudios I'll check you guys out! Thank you!

Rule of cool is all I really care about to be honest. Though all the legions I'm most interested in (Alpha Legion, Death Guard, Iron Warriors - and possibly World Eaters) happen to fall in mid or top tier lol.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Rule of Cool is everything! And is why I've already got my Emperor's Children army coming together! :D

@MLaak86

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 I feel like I ID a lot with the put upon Legions who turned Traitor, from life experiences as a child, so might be heavily concentrating on them and Dark Mechanicum.

Thanks for the video. I haven't played yet, but SoH look so good on paper. If you take the warlord trait that gives 2 reactions per shooting phase, you can actually shoot back with 2 different units on one turn. With immunity to instant death, Abaddon and a gang of Justaerin are going to absolutely wreck face.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

For sure! SoH are absolutely fine. Can do some really nasty stuff. Are they better than World Eaters or Word Bearers. I don't think so. Get them on the table and let us know how you go! :D

@aaronsomerville2124

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 I'll try! Given my glacial pace of painting, I could start painting them as Luna Wolves and by the time I was finished they would be Black Legion.

For Iron warriors Iron havocs with autocannons and augury scanner is brutal.

Glad to hear positive thoughts about the NL. I always have a knack for diving into a wargame, choosing a faction based on rule of cool, and have it turn out to be absolute a$$ in the meta. Working on a 2k point terror assault army using a fukc huge unit of night raptors, big terror squad, some recon marines, 2 dreads, and a heavy support w/ lascannons. As I expand this, looking at Sevatar and a Pride of the Legion list. Would be interested in your thoughts on Sev and what he brings to the battlefield for Termies.

All very well thought out. But you should have a caveat at the end, says " power players are all gonna take fury of the ancients right of war with iron hands so probably just take iron warriors with as many las cannons as you can

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

😅

Really late to the party but for the EC, The Maru Skara doesn't say anywhere that you actually have to take Reserves. So RAW you can just give all your dudes +1 to movement for the whole game if you want.

Like the loyalist one, I'm gonna put mine down and see how similar they are! Top tier: IW, NL, AL Mid tier: DG, WB, SoH, EC, WE Hot trash: TS

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

You get where my head's at 😉😄

@lesbianmorgoth652

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 seems like it! Very very close 👀 Though I'd say the top three traitor legions are still worse then the top three loyalists lmao, poor chaos 😅

While I'll admit that EC don't have a whole lot going for them compared to others, there is no way I could call access to initiative 2 powerfists/thunderhammers hot trash.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

That interaction is indeed spicy. But only really relevant in niche terminator on terminator situations or maybe a duel, which might come up once or twice per game? If you're lucky. And a canny opponent can avoid that situation quite easily, unless you're building an all terminator list. Which you're probably not. And it's still assuming you get the charge off. And it's only in the first round of combat. So. Look. It's a nice interaction. Does it lift their overall ranking? Nah.

want 1 loyalist and 1 traitor legion. Was excited to dive into thousand sons but kinda discouraged because arcana just doesn't seem fun to deal with. Going to do my Dark angels first. (Also waiting to see the thousand sons upgrades)

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

I know right?! Dark Angels essentially do the same thing. But their bonuses are better. They don't have to take psychic checks. And their units are better. Yeeaaah...

@Mittens_Gaming

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 Those Terran Greatswords are so good too.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

@@Mittens_Gaming SO good!!!

I've been playing Night Lords since the 3.5 codex, and these are hands down the best rules that they've ever had. Even 3.5 pales in comparison. And they're probably the fluffiest rules they've ever had as well IMO. AVE DOMINUS NOX!!

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Sure are! Love them! Not at all 'broken' but really interesting and with some great synergies.

Will say in defense of the bearers of the word that drawn combat has come up way to often in the games I've played and when the deamons of the ruinstorm book comes out a few of their characters are summoners

@blackbriargaming5483

Жыл бұрын

So after playing many more games since this ranking, I'm definitely feeling like the Word Bearers deserve to be a bit higher! In fact. Did a WB focused podcast with the Eye of Horus Podcast that comes out next week!

hey , I´m super new to HH 2.0 or HH in general , could you make a "how to play Horus Heresy 2.0" Video ? I´m interested in the game but have no idea how to play it and how the gameflow feels and looks like and i dont want to invest the money needed for an army without knowing how the game plays and then realizing i dont like it and have a giant army of Models i dont need. Thx in advance

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Definitely something I'm interested in doing! Am currently working on getting the set up together to be able to produce something I'm happy with.

Am gonna be honest the only reason I play Iron Warriors cuz Shrapnel weapons sound cool. A bolters shooting shotgun rounds is super dope

First time I ever picked a "top tier" anything! All by accident from 7th! Ave Dominus Nox

I had to chose between SoH or EC and chose EC. I knew what i got myself into ruleswise beforehand, but EC just look too good. My friend started Alpha Legion, needless to say he got the better treatment ruleswise, but i havent played against him yet so no idea how much an impact the rules gonna have at the end. Do you think plus 1Iniative in the first round of combat would be too powerful?

@fortheemperor8764

2 жыл бұрын

Imo, EC are mid tier like most legions. Their legion trait is actually pretty good (espacially with unwieldy weapons), the advanced reaction is meh like their warlord traits and rites of war. Their special wargear is solid. The phoenix terminators are niche since the are all characters. the palatines are really good melee choise. The sunkillers are also good. The kakophoni essentially have better rotor cannon thus making them a pinning unit, meaning they combo with units that have spite of the legion. EC's HQ are actually pretty nice (Lucius is a BEAST). And Fulgrim is the best at fighting other primarchs. Overall, EC are a good, not the best or the worst. PS: Just because someone is playing a top tier legion, it doesn't mean that they have a huge advantage against you. Horus Heresy isn't 40k. The power difference between the factions is really small.

@volcano3493

2 жыл бұрын

You will have a fun time running two EC contemptors with two power fists with their brutal blows coming in at I5. Who will recover from that?

@teuton_

2 жыл бұрын

@@fortheemperor8764 Oh im not worried about playing against something that may have an slight Advantage in rules. I wouldnt have chosen ec if i cared about that. I guess my biggest misgivings are probably the advance reaction being just a worse version of already existing ones and cacophony blowing themselves up. I can easily live with the rest

@teuton_

2 жыл бұрын

@@volcano3493 Sounds fun, but dreads are good anyway.

@jordandecourcy3652

Жыл бұрын

Try Palatine Blades with power axes with sonic shriekers and use skill unmatched to lower the weapon skill of the opponent so WS5 units hit them on 6s. They’ve worked pretty well for me so far.

Great vid and breakdown, i feel you may have forgotten my fav nightlord friend, the Centurian Vigilator, Giving this guy preysight further abusing his range and an extra -1 to ld which often results in a 5ld roll (along with taking down apoths or artificer seargents). In some ways i pref him over the Psyker

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

So spicy! Love it 🥰

yo merci aussi, petite question ruinstorm il y est pas par ce que c'est trop nul ? c'est ce que je joue, mais j'avoue trop d'aléatoire merci encore pour le boulot, salut !

I think you understimate the sonic upgrades impact on the EC, specially the shriekers. Not enough to move them to the top but maybe to bottom mid maybe.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe! It'll be interesting to see if they have an impact on the table 😊

@jordandecourcy3652

Жыл бұрын

With skill unmatched on the Palatine Blades, you can make WS 5 units hit them on 6s. Give them power axes and since they have counter attack, they will have four attacks when being charged or when charging. Hitting on either 3s or 4s(depending on the unit), and wounding on 4s at AP2. Even though they go last, they will be hit on 6s and wounded on 4s by most weapons that are available to similar units. Attach an apothecary to the squad and they could probably stand up most other Legion specific units. The Phoenix Terminators are garbage compared to other terminators though. They are terrible compared to any other terminator squad in my experience. A few of their characters are shit as well. Saul Tarvitz and Rylanor are terrible, but I haven’t gotten the chance to try Lucius or Eidelon yet. In my experience, they are okay, but if they are played right, which I certainly have not done yet.

@hectorc7080

Жыл бұрын

@@jordandecourcy3652 You are right. I had tested that combination and is very good. Regarding Eidolon, together with a assault squad with shriekers, aphotecary and deep striking, it had work for me very well on a couple of ocassions.

@jordandecourcy3652

Жыл бұрын

@@hectorc7080 That’s great! I’ll have to try that Eidelon set up soon.

@Blackhound61

Жыл бұрын

I feel like Phoenix guard are good at just surviving and allowing a duellist character (eg Lucius) to overkill and win combat that way

Word Bearers are waiting for that daemons PDF. If daemons are strong that might push them up the list. The ability to deploy units in the shooting phase and avoid movement phase reactions will be a helpful little tech against some of the better shooting armies

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

They're already pretty high! Only being beaten out by Death Guard in the mid tier, for just this reason. But yeah. With specific daemon builds they could indeed be pushing that top. Though their Legion rule lets them down horrifically.

@benjaminwilliams3168

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 it wasn't a complaint. More an observation that there's possibly more uncertainty for the WB than other legions due to the their greater ability to use daemons and we don't know how good that will be yet

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

@@benjaminwilliams3168 definitely!

I think you're a bit hard on the EC, you will win combat most of the time, by using snipers to pick off opposing Sargants and Vexillas going first with power weapons is huge. add in Fulgrim and your on ave +2 to combat res before casualties.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Ha ha. The old 'add in Fulgrim' trick :P Would be interesting to do a Primarch ranking. But how do you rate them? They're all great, often in unique ways. Force multipliers. Close Combat Monsters. Deployment interactions. I'd have to have a few different rating categories I think. Then prioritise the categories relevant to impact on the battlefield.

@davefogle7747

2 жыл бұрын

Some are clearly better then others. and imo the Trator Primarchs are better for the most part then loyalist as a whole

@Blackhound61

Жыл бұрын

Snipers arent very EC though :P

@spencergalland5754

Жыл бұрын

@@Blackhound61 idk. Making "perfect shots" isnt EC?

@Blackhound61

Жыл бұрын

@@spencergalland5754 sure I guess, fluff is infinite in the end!

Night Lords having 2 wounds on so many of those units is insane

Finally I can play night lords AND WIN! let’s go spooky boys

I feel like a tier list telling me they won't get into reasons every other entry is ... a nifty concept.

@blackbriargaming5483

Жыл бұрын

I think it's time we do an update for these! Though might wait until we see some campaign books.

I will say I think it's actually a good thing that besides imperial fists and contemptor Dreadnoughts being overpowered almost no one can actually agree on whats good or bad. Shows that there is at least some inherent balance in the mix. I 100% agree that most content creators are sleeping on the scary combos available with night Lords but I don't know if they are "top tier" also EC are probably mid tier.

@blackbriargaming5483

Жыл бұрын

This is the kind of debate that makes a game system healthy :D

I think EC are better than you give them credit for! The Phoenix power weapons are really solid and they’re just the absolute kings of sweeping units off the board.Also Kakophani deserve more points for being Very Funny, imo.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Oh. To be clear. I am 100% going to get multiple units of Kakophoni. Love the models. Love the theme. Love the hilarity of removing your own unit :P

@Blackhound61

Жыл бұрын

Was v excited for phoenix weapons when the leaked combat styles allowed AP2, on release theyre just not great for taking enemy elite units

@Thaneriffic

Жыл бұрын

@@Blackhound61 That's true, but they're very nice generalist weapons for how cheap they are. I2 fists/hammers are gonna do better at mashing terminators but for no extra points a phoenix rapier is a pretty nice upgrade over a power sword. Big boost to your ability to damage dreadnaughts, for example.

@Blackhound61

Жыл бұрын

@@Thaneriffic yeah dont get me wrong theyre good weapons, I just struggle to see how Id use them. Independent Characters want something punchier, Palatines kind of want power axes

I do think that Emperor's Childrens' ability to use Unwieldy at I2 is a worthwhile trick with Cataphractii and Tartaros, but Legion Terminators aren't as flashy as legion units. Does it change their tier? Probably not, but it is an angle.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Oh definitely!! But probably only useful in niche circumstances.

yeah, played my first HH game against an AL player using Morbeus and Dark Angel terminators. Was not a fun game at all.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Ooft. Brutal. You gotta warn someone out about those kind of shenanigans!

Been checking in daily waiting for this video! Agree on the sentiment for TS and EC. Really wanted to like these, but TS got a huge handicap for being blatantly OP in 1.0. While I thought they needed to be brought down a peg, it seems they were brought down a whole post instead. EC are tragically almost perfect. Their trait, RoWs, WTs, and uniques all have flaws that prevent the EC from being what they should be. Not surprised by your SoH ranking either. That unique power axe is so badly designed, and their Reavers don't seem too special, aside from having great options. They aren't priced well vs. other legions uniques. Was surprised by your World Eaters ranking though. Kharn and some of the WTs seem decent.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the support! The World Eaters are absolutely fine, but there are just other Legions that play the edition better. Without any kind of real leadership mechanic to help them out, getting across the board against some of the higher ranked armies will be a serious challenge.

@andrewbakescakes9684

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 - Very true! They do get some +1 LD from their one RoW, but there are a lot of shenanigans re: LD this edition. Rampagers just look so fun though...

It seems that, with a few exceptions, the loyalist legions often have better rules, overall.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

No disagreements here. But I don't think it's a significant gap. Noticeable. But manageable.

@Mittens_Gaming

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 I would agree with that. Unlike 40k, it seems that while faction unique rules give some unique units and interesting flavor, it does not change them so significantly that the "worst" legion can not beat the "best" legion, if the player does their part. Some legions have significant advantages, but no so significant as to be game breaking, in my opinion.

like your loyalist review, I question how much experience you have of this game.

@fortheemperor8764

2 жыл бұрын

What would be your list? I am new with no experience:)

@taffeh

2 жыл бұрын

@@fortheemperor8764 I've been doing Heresy for years and the idea of tier lists is distasteful to most narrative players. However Emperor's Children and White Scars (hot trash in the loyalist video) are two really good legions in my view - I play Scars soley and I've only lost 1-2 games with them this edition and was at the Warhammer World event. The commentator on the video must only have views from a theory perspective comparing them to how he feels they'd play against his previously confessed Iron Warriors. Its easier to see the bonuses of +1 strength on weapons to how holistically non obvious legion bonuses stack to give players benefit such as +1 move, a RoW that gives all bikes/jetbikes the ability to score, whilst a cavalry army cannot be pinned etc. Guess I'd say it would be more for the 'new player' that +1 strength of iron warriors is good.

@fortheemperor8764

2 жыл бұрын

@@taffeh thank you so much. I've been watching this guy for weeks and he seems pretty knowledgeable about the game. So I found weird his opinions on EC, since everyone was saying that they are balanced.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Feel free to disagree without being a jerk about it. You'll notice that I even invite people to suggest their own rankings. But I don't see why you have to be rude about it while doing so. Plenty is the answer.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

@@fortheemperor8764 thanks for having my back bro! EC can build an absolutely fine Legion, and have some tricks up their sleeves. But when you compare their bonuses to those of other Legions, they're pretty average.

Dude felt horrible took a bunch a tyrants against this armor spear head list literally tables the poor guy with more or less 2 squads

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Urgh. Rough. Yeah. After a dozen or so games I've retired mine. They're just rude 😅

@razalfraz6618

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 terminators already run rampant and to give them 30 strength 8 shots on top of that is reason enough to assault someone

Kinda surprised on WE, red butchers are kinda dissapointing since they have unwieldy axes and same base attacks as standard cathapracti while with claws they become expansive as hell :/ still gonna field them becouse rule of cool ;d

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Rule of cool is everything!!

@UndeadKing_5150

2 жыл бұрын

Just cos red butchers are garbage doest mean the world eaters as a whole are

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

@@UndeadKing_5150 never said they were. Ranked solidly in mid tier 😊

@UndeadKing_5150

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 didn't say you did. I said just cos butchers are poor in reply to the other comment

EC are not about pure killing power, the secret to using them is winning combat and sweeping the enemy. They should be played as a combined arms army with a melee edge. Snipe out squad leaders and apothecaries, use sonic shriekers etc for a more devastating first turn in combat. If you do end up losing combat or otherwise failing moral checks use the broken mirror warlord trait to force a pass. The Maru Skara +1 to movement also pushes every unit you want to use into at least 8 movement so also giving you a handy +1 to charge, helping you get that charge off. EC are not a point and click army, they can be really good when you leverage their various abilities.

@blackbriargaming5483

Жыл бұрын

I think so too! I've got a new EC army I can't wait to get on the table! :D

Love my Night Lords to absolute bits, I'm glad our rules in this game actually seem to work and are fun rather then 40k where they are just depressing. Also love your shout outs to Jolt in Canberra. Always enjoy having a game there when I get the chance.

@gadzilla6664

2 жыл бұрын

The difference between the 8th Legion's rules in 30k and 40K are stark. I have trouble understanding why any Night Lords player wouldn't run straight for 30k.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Got to support the local gaming store! Jolt is such a good one too!

@thomaswilliams7799

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 Been meaning to pop down to Mitchell once the Contemptor Kits come out and I have a bit more cash to my name.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

@@thomaswilliams7799 for sure! We're going to have a small HH event at Jolt soon too 😊

@thomaswilliams7799

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 Oh, what details can you share (if any)?

HELL YEAH IRON WARRIORS AWOO AWOO

I am Alpharius! Hydra Dominatus!

NL vs SW who wins?

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

All comes down to army builds. But from a ranking of Legion perspective around potential. Space Wolves. Imperial Fists and Dark Angels probably beat out Night Lords too... *Sad Traitor Face*

Night Lords player here, The whole time you announced a legion I was like, WOOO WERE 8TH, OH DAMN WE'RE 7TH... gets to top tier, OMG WE'RE TOP!??!! I CANT BELIEVE WERE 3RD BEST etc needless to say I lost my mind when you put alpha in 2nd

@blackbriargaming5483

Жыл бұрын

Ha ha! Awesome!!! Night Lords Players really deserve the love this edition has served them up :D

AVE DOMINUS NOX!

Seems like Loyalists made out better in terms of units and rules

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

You're not wrong

Slaanesh disapproves…

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

I know. And I love Slaanesh! 😪

Me building emperors children: 😅😭

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Keep going strong! I'm building one too. Maybe only include one unit of Kakophoni though. Lol.

@kevingarnett1255

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 I've mostly just got the start collecting box and a few extra legioneries at this point 😅

@childrenofthesun471

Жыл бұрын

Hey! As long as you love their lore and how they look thats what matters. My mate plays Raven guard and has a fluffy all marine list and no vechicles/dreads and he crushes "top meta" armies with good tactics.

yah i disagree quite a bit here. i think you need more play. NL on paper seem the bees knees, but 2.0 introduced a little thing called augury scanners and nuncio voxes for dirt cheap everywhere (nevermind how prevalent master of signals are, best bang for buck consul out there). Nevermind that alot of factions are rocking either 2 reactions in shooting or assault making NL take a beating on the way in to boot. Alot of NL is banking on the night flighting. night fighting is being expected by players (NL or not), in our meta auguries and voxes are being bought for discount prices meaning much of what NL need to pack a quick punch are going bye bye (and it's even worse if your meta picks up on Fulmentarius spam from the garbage pdf, a block of that unit will make NL players pack up and quit)). NL are certainly mid-tier but even raptors or terror squad are pricey to try and bank on talent for murder to happen (hell i think even wrote off reavers pretty quickly, reavers v terror squad reavers will chew through NL). DG at mid?? holy your meta must not have picked up the gold standard that is the 2.0 super cheap lascannon heavy support squads! Nobody and i mean nobody does heavy support squads better than DG (well maybe IW autocannon bonzana, but they can't move like DG). there is no unit the game right now that a heavy support lascannon squad isn't an answer for. period. full stop and DG with the reaping rite can spam that trash all day and be protected with rad grenades and toxins till the cows come home. Alpha is also mid-tier the rewards is a rock.paper.siccors problem if you pick right its gold, if you don't its expensive fluff. EC can hold more than you think too you may want to play against them more, a crafty player can punish you quickly, certainly more so mid-tier. TS are a problem i think of "they aren't the awesome book VII crimson crushers, back in the day" they once were so they don't feel as powerful, but i agree they struggle cause the amount of book keeping on that army is rough, you lose power because it s damn easy to forget half the stuff you *could* have done.

AVE DOMINUS NOX

Flat rules wise I mostly agree, but I would raisr EC into the mid tier, and swap SoH and IW positions. SoH and EC both have oustanding power in melee, and SoH ability to win combat and aim for sweeps is outstanding, specially on 2 w infantry, and while I use to not like EC legion rule, this edition enough of the melee rules are on the charge that it doesnt bug me now and Initiative bonus's are just so strong. I also find sonic shriekers, and sun eaters are both extremely good. I do think they at the bottom of mid tier but I can't call EC trash now. SoH are just pound for pound better at surviving in melee, which is how you efficinetly deal with stuff like dreads and terminators. The popular good units this edition. I also have found IW tricks less than impressive. Yes tyrants are good, yes bitter duty is good and the tyrant of lyssantra is good. But maybe its my meta where vehicles are not spammed I just dont see their legion trait coming up on much aside from dreads. And their limited range on pinning bolters means they have less chances to pin melee units at range and make it much harder for them to skirmish with other shooting armies troops. It is just my opinion ofc and personal experience is not proof in total

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Love that there's this debate going on! Makes for a healthy game. And thanks for throwing out a different opinion without being a jerk about it. Lol.

@KaosKittyStudios

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 I mean, no reason to be a jerk right? its a game even if we have different opinions... oh well? I also find I am of the opinion that while we all have our opinions right now, in a few months we might all come back and find we were all wrong. It's really early to try and rank the legions based off of just what's on paper, as the meta evolves we will see what happens, and for all we know some update will come out of the blue that hits the legions everyone is complaining about, or some FAQ will shift wording enough to rocket an army up the ladder due to a RoW change.

Damn, the fact that thousand sons are the worst faction makes me sad, guess ill have to wait until they get decent HH rules before trying to get into it :/

@blackbriargaming5483

Жыл бұрын

Not at all! The margin between 'worst' and 'best' Legion's is far smaller than in a game like 40k. And Thousand Sons can definitely pull off some great army builds. Certain psychic disciplines are also VERY powerful. My advice would just be to avoid certain units that are over costed or underperform, and be sparing with how you use the Thousand Sons arcana so you don't blow up your own army.

I still maintain that the TS rules were written by whichever furry designed those new SW MkVI helms.

Emperor's Children -- trash tier? Pffft. Seriously? Have you even played EC? Phoenix Terminators - Great value for the points. 35 points per model for 2+/5++, Skill Unmatched (giving a fair amount of fight options which can pair interestingly with other WS buffs), Living Icons (giving them and any surrounding units +1 combat resolution and the ability to win a combat if it's tied -- very damn good), Phoenix Spears, with the ability to give a Standard Bearer Command upgrade w/Phoenix Rapier for just +15 points, giving the whole unit Line without having to use up an additional HQ slot for a Herald (awesome). And furthermore, to your point about hoping they aren't "locked in combat with Cataphractii"...you literally would never use them to do that, that's not what they are designed to do. Any EC player worth his salt knows that you never just blindly charge a very hard target armed with power fists. This is like saying "hurr durr, I'm going to charge a tactical squad into a dreadnought". It's basically not even an argument. I don't know why it's argued as if it was some kind of downside. Phoenix Warden - Also a great value for the points. +30 points for a Phoenix weapon and an Iron Halo (which very few models get nowadays, let alone a Tartaros model that can sweep), plus Skill Unmatched and Living Icons on a 3W model? Yes please. Just a plain good melee HQ model. Palatine Blades - Admittedly merely OK for what you get. I say keep 'em cheap. They're not garbage though. Massed Charnabals, 2+ armor save, 2W, and Counterattack, plus Skill Unmatched, they can take on most other standard troops and vets quite handily. 10 of them armed with Charnabal sabers deal, base, 41 I5, WS5 attacks with Breaching 5+ on the charge. Considering that shriekers or Skill Unmatched can enhance that further, that's nothing to scoff at. Also can throw in a few Phoenix weapons for a sprinkling of ID from Murderous Strike. Or make them Aquilae (Wings of the Phoenician?) with jump packs for extra mobility. There's a fair amount of utility there. Kakophoni - Not as bad as you make them out to be. They're Fearless (very few units have this trait, base). And the Cacophany is Assault 3, PINNING (very good), Shell Shock, AND Deflagrate. That's a potent combination that will lock down enemy units, while also ensuring they keep playing their heavy metal racket to the last bow. Sun Killers - A terror on the battlefield. Probably one of the best units in the game. Expensive, but the squad virtually ensures unit deletion, especially against hard to kill targets like dreadnoughts and tanks. Also the fact that you can take up to 20 of them in the unit makes them very powerful. Used correctly, they can easily turn the tide of battle. Fulgrim - Very good Primarch for the points (one of the cheapest point-wise, but with rules that far outclass his cost). Excellent duellist (can take on virtually anyone, except Horus, the Lion, and Leman Russ, which is fair), and his armor's one of the better ones out there. Also buffs the legion's morale/leadership. A great all round Primarch. Legion Advanced Reaction: The Perfect Counter - I've found this to be one of the best. A true "gotcha" reaction that really effs up the enemy when they least expect it. I've won games because my opponent thinks his command squad charge is going to win him the game, when suddenly, the whole charge is countercharged, giving EC all the benefits, and giving the enemy none. Cancelling an opponents charge and turning it into your own charge is extremely powerful. Rites of War: Mediocre. I don't find them particularly powerful. Maru Skara is decent enough, with the ability to just bring reserves onto the battlefield at the time of your choosing. Or, hilariously, RAW, just permanently keep a +1" to move, run, charge the whole game and never bring anything on (although to my interpretation, you'd need to have a reserve unit somewhere to actually be able to bring on, meaning one unit would just sit out the game lol). I don't play Traitors, but 3rd Co. Elite isn't bad either, just not really outstanding IMO. Warlord Traits: Decent. Martyrs of Istvaan is just plain good against traitors. Paragon of Excellence would be amazing IF it clearly was just a flat leadership test to get +1 WS. RAI, I think they meant for that to be the case, as tying this to a morale test seems to be a little too situational to be a warlord trait. The Broken Mirror I have not played personally, but I understand it's pretty good for removing negative morale effects. Legion rules: As stated elsewhere, the ability to hit at "1 Initiative step higher" is extremely useful for sweeping. Coupled with things like Living Icons, and Vexillas, entire enemy units can be reliably deleted. Hitting at I2 with Power Axes, Thunder Hammers, and Power Fists will also have most shaking in their boots since that just means the prior statement is made even more likely. If a lot of the enemy models die before they can swing back, and get smacked at a disadvantage by needing up to 2 more wounds scored in combat, they almost certainly WILL lose combat. Phoenix Weapons: Since a lot of weapons no longer have AP3 standard, I feel EC weapons are solid just on this fact alone. Breaching/Rending (6+) and Murderous Strike (6+) are not the most reliable, but the total package results in a pretty good weapon set overall in the grand scheme of things. Having +2 S and +1 I on the Spears means, most of the time you are hitting first, and Wounding on a 2+, with a 17% chance of AP2, and 17% chance of ID. Not amazing HQ killers, but great for anything else. That's what Thunder Hammers and Paragon blades are for...and with those you're hitting faster anyways, so against almost anything, you have the initial advantage in melee. Overall, the Emperor's Children should be ranked closer to the top. They are certainly among the top 5 best Legions in HH2.0 (and don't just take my word for it).

Oh no what is this list 😭 I'd swap EC for WB honestly, move TS to mid, move NL to mid, WE to top, and SoH to almost top tier (they are insaaaane in combat, absolutely wild to fight against) IW are Kings, and AL are absurd but played out to me at this point (our group has 4 AL players lol).

@carabculln1232

2 жыл бұрын

What? WB have some of the best HQs and best elites in the game lol, solid RoWs , and WE aren’t better than NL lol

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

So while I dont agree. It shows that the game is healthy is there's these diverse opinions flying around 😊

@joahnaut

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 changing my choice a little after another game. DG are easily at the top, fucking Fury of the Legion whenever you want? Instant Death only at S10? Vehicles just always shooting as if they were stationary? Absolutely Bananas.

@childrenofthesun471

Жыл бұрын

@@joahnaut WB on the bottom list lol whaaaat

This tier list is lul, guy doesn't have a clue.

What a bizarre tier list. We are now quite a while into 2.0 and EC one of the top 5 legions. Not on the level of fists but they are up there. To rank them the lowest certainly sounds like you havent played any games with or against them. Palatine blades alone the best assault troops in the game.