As my grandmother said: "There's nothing new at this world, maybe hidden but...existent." Thank for the video that shows the reality of the world as it was.

@imanilukellalovehopefaith1355

10 ай бұрын

The Bible also says that theirs nothing new under the son ..but just because some politicians practiced it it doesn't mean it's a saintly thing to do politicians royal families etc are known to be corrupted people you wouldn't want your child to grow up to be that

@PrincemichaelG7

Ай бұрын

"Nothing new under the sun" every thing is recycled!

Based on my knowledge of ancient Egypt, my first thought whenever it was asked whether they were lovers or relatives was "Why not both?"

It's possible that Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum, if asked, "Are you lovers, or brothers?" would have just said, "Yes."

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

I really hope that level of sass existed in the ancient world. I’m sure it did

@pentz1

11 ай бұрын

@@DigItWithRaven I was in Africa sometime ago and I saw two men holding hands as they were talking....they were not homosexual...the point is, that our idea of homosexuality is our modern understanding and we should be careful to project it to the past

@hassanalkhalaf1115

4 ай бұрын

​@@pentz1 exactly. I come from a culture where you see man holding hands and sometimes sitting on eachothers lap all the time!

I am a Dutch historian with a great love for ancient Egypt. Often the egyptologists talk a bit dull but you put fire into the story. I love it. Keep up the good work!

it could be that ancient egyptians may not have thought homosexual relationships as noteworthy so they dont talk about it much in their records. they may not have thought it was a big deal.

@jenna9300

Жыл бұрын

💡

@jenna9300

Жыл бұрын

The room just “Ohhhh” to your comment. 👏 love this

@binghamguevara6814

11 ай бұрын

That’s your perverted fantasy and corruption of history to fit your gay agenda. The existence of other sexualities like bisexualities and trans and pansexualities would have been non-existent and too destructive of the Egyptian blood family.

@pattydemnicki8711

11 ай бұрын

Or too ashamed of them to record it

@ardi08

6 ай бұрын

​@VanquisherOfTroonsBecause only heterosexual couple perceived as normal and not for the other ones

Two men being groomers / hairdressers of the Pharaoh and being depicted as lovers, how much info do you need, Raven?

"After all these people are human as well", i like that. History is the story of all of us with our flows, kinks, habits, dreams... When historians get too serious they sometimes forget that. It's nice that there are guys that remind us to stay human and open minded even from beyond the grave

Love this! While I love the conjoined twins theory, I believe the sniffing of the lotus flower to be the “smoking gun”. Another compelling video. Great work!

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

When I read the conjoined theory, it blew my mind! Would never have thought of that one

Glad to see you back at your regular content :)

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

So happy to be back! Lots more to come :)

My vote is lovers 💕 the lotus flower and positioning are the biggest clues. Also, Conjoined twins would have had a low probability of living to adulthood, or even to puberty.

@AngelDelight69

18 күн бұрын

We can't ignore the possibility that evidence has purposely been destroyed to approve that it was allowed.

I remember showing this to one of my colleagues and he said that they are kissing each other on the cheeks and are probably friends. I afterwards said, sarcastically, "and they were also roomates!" I hope someone does write a story about these two one day, it sounds perfect for a forbidden love story!

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

Cue that TikTok song about history hating lovers 🎶

@donnalewis3975

6 ай бұрын

He probably was his friend an why people have to think wickness that's why my GOD Jesus Christ called it an abomination. If people can be delivered off it it's just bad spirits ( demons in people) God will deliver you if u pray about it an repent an get baptized in Jesus Christ name Amen Acts2:38-42. People choose to live like that I didn't .I don't think about it anymore more because I have done it.for 3years but what so sad I knew better I knew it was wrong.but God will take people disgusting ways away from them I'm a testament of it . Amen

This was on the history of ancient egypt podcast years ago! Ive been dying for it to get more attention

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

Such a great podcast! I've been wanting to make this video for a while, so I'm glad others are making content about them too :D

Thank you very much for sharing your marvelous curiosity and open mind in regard to archaeology. It seems that often there is way too little actual insight and actual vision in archaeology. You are lovely. Keep us informed by continuing to share with us.

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

Aweee thank you! Very glad that you liked the video. I'm hoping that archaeology continues to grow and evolve with more open discourse and the addition of new perspectives - it's the only way we'll be able to get a more holistic view of the past!

Loved this video!! Thank you Raven, welcome back!

So glad you're back and being awesome!

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

So glad to be back!!

It is great that you are filming again. Very interesting video

I have nothing to say other than good video. Just commenting to boost engagement. This channel deserves way more views.

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

I really appreciate this! Thank you so much 😊

Great topic! Great video! Great to hear so many amazing things seem to be coming together for you professionally, academically -- Come again? What's that now? Lean in a little closer. I've got your Oxford comma around here somewhere -- and personally. Keep rocking the boat in the not-yet-sufficiently-free world!

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

Never been more excited about an Oxford comma comment!!

Raven! My FAVORITE Canadian expatriate! You know I'm an actor. So I have some awareness. When humming a Cole Porter tune...one can remember that he was married BUT preferred the "company" of males. In the movie NIGHT AND DAY, the Cole Porter story starring Cary Grant, one of his in real life friends was Monty Woolley, was also gay and his companion was described as "courier-secretary-travelling companion". So there were clues. Then while watching a KZread reactor reacting to WEDNESDAY, she was shocked and a bit upset that Enid was chasing a male. Even though nothing hinted at a sexual attraction to Wednesday. Also, personally, I would possibly only make the "hot buns" comment to a lady after I married her. Possibly before.

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

I think we all need a “courier-secretary-travelling companion” in our lives!

omg they were tombmates

@Minptahhathor

9 ай бұрын

😂😂

@CiaranEldrett-vp8yz

7 ай бұрын

🤣🤣

Thanks for your balanced presentation. I was wondering how I may give you a link to another of my papers on the tomb you should add to your bibliography? Not sure if links are allowed in your comments section. Thanks for mentioning my work in your video.

The detail of the lotus flower made me smile like crazy! I'm going to side with those who think that they are a gay couple, it's too sweet to imagine the tomb builders and the artists working to represent them in a way that makes them happy! Thank you for this video!

Not being an archeologist or historian I'm free to ship these boys ;^)

Okay you’re my favorite KZread historian now

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

OMG thank you so much!!!

Great Video!!! I am a gay (cis) male. I am also someone who loves and has studied history all my life. I have always been fascinated with Ancient Egypt for as long as I can remember. (Along with Greece, Rome, Persia, Asia, Africa, Europe, and on and on infinitum.) I would, of course, LOVE it if this was an actual tomb of an Ancient Egyptian gay couple! That said… I (unfortunately) don’t think there’s enough evidence to conclusively prove it, or disprove it. I wish there were. I do think/believe that there is undoubtedly enough evidence to easily support the gay couple conclusion. I do find myself very intrigued with the conjoined twins hypothesis as well. There is definitely enough evidence to support that conclusion just as much as the gay couple possibility. I do agree with others here that have said that it would be extremely unlikely for conjoined twins to have survived into adulthood back then. Although - if they had, it would fit with all the facts that we do know. They would pretty much have had to have had the same job - it’s not like they could go their separate ways in the morning after breakfast. They would also have surely died within the same timeframe, especially if they had shared organs, but even if they didn’t share any organs… surviving while conjoined to a literal rotting corpse would not be a likely possibility for any extended period of time… nor would there be a good chance of surviving a surgery to separate you from your deceased twin. Shared organs aside, surviving any surgery back then - especially something that serious (if they could even do it at all)… would be an extremely unlikely result. So: being that they would likely have died very close together, it makes perfect sense for them to not only be buried together, but for them to share a tomb as well. Tombs, burial, and all things death related were very expensive. Sharing a tomb etc. would have not only have made for a common sense decision, but good financial sense as well. I think the depictions of them in the tomb make perfect sense as well, for either result - couple or conjoined. It was not customary for artists then to depict realism, in some cases/times it was even outright forbidden. Instead, the artists depicted an idealized version of people and things. After all… especially with tomb art… this was how you were going to be seen and remembered for all eternity. I don’t recall ever seeing a papyrus or tomb painting showing anyone fat, or old, or disfigured. Everyone is shown in profile (make sure and get my good side hehehe) looking young and strong and thin and healthy and happy. So… not showing them as actually being conjoined isn’t really surprising at all -> in fact it would be extremely surprising, shocking even, if they were shown that way. Of course the same can be said about showing them actually kissing or in a sexually suggestive pose if they were a gay couple. That can also explain the feast table painting. If the intention were to show the wife seated behind him… wouldn’t it also make sense to show the other man the same way? Yet he is seated with his back to a wall, with no room for a wife (or anyone) behind him. This could be taken in two ways: 1. The fact that one of them was seated against a wall with no room for his wife behind him - would both unbalance the image and make them seem like one was more important than the other. After all, the art is supposed to be idealized and balanced. So the wife was covered over. OR!!! - 2. Maybe it wasn’t his wife sitting behind him. Maybe it was the two of them sitting together. This would also be something totally unacceptable too. Not only would it again make the painting unbalanced, but it would have shown something completely unacceptable! Again it would have appeared to show one man as more important than the other… the one seated behind the other would appear to be in a lesser position. OR it would have shown the one behind as being in a sexual partner’s role - which would be absolutely forbidden to show. OR it would have shown them as actually being conjoined twins… which again would not be allowed at all. So therefore it would only make sense for them to both be shown as seated at the two heads of the table - no one behind them, as same and equal. This however doesn’t explain only one of them smelling the lotus flower. That could just be artistic expression. It was not something that was not allowed, just not common at that time (it did become a common thing later). Or it could be a very obvious and intentional image to show that they are indeed lovers. Well… I have gone on long enough. I will end this tldr comment here with this parting observation. Whether these two men were Lovers / Conjoined Twins / Brothers / Friends / or whatever: No matter what - they BOTH worked for, and were in direct contact with the Pharaoh! They BOTH were in a role of responsibility to and for the Pharaoh. So they were BOTH - Very Important Men. They BOTH would have been powerful enough, and wealthy enough to be able to have a lavish tomb and burial. Either way - as a Gay Couple, or Conjoined Twins… they are BOTH equally as fascinating, equally important, and equally worthy of our interest, discussion, and admiration! Finally, and Most Importantly - no matter who they were or what their relationship to each other was or is -> they BOTH accomplished their goal! They achieved immortality!!! Here we are… still talking about them… remembering them… saying their names… all of these thousands of years later - after they died! Maybe?!?!?! - it’s best that we don’t have the answers. While it would be amazing to know that we are in fact seeing the first and only known tomb of an Ancient Egyptian gay couple! - and it would be amazing as well to know that we are looking at the first ever tomb of a set of Conjoined Twins who beat all the odds and survived! The fact is: Not Knowing makes it a mystery, and keeps our interest alive. It gives them BOTH the very immortality they sought out and deserve, and thanks to us - they achieved.

If they were conjoined, I would expect death to occur to both within a small time frame. That would have made for a really weird mummy, and there may have been issues with the canopic jars as some organs may have been shared. As for the wife, it is possible she was erased as death occurred before the tomb could be properly finished. Alternatively, or in conjunction with above, a workman may have made a mistake during the carving and it was easier and more expedient to simply plaster over. Of course most likely plans were changed during construction, which is certainly not unheard of for ancient Egypt. I have haven't heard of this tomb, I'm quite interested to find out what grave goods were found.

Thank you so much for speaking up for the lgbtq+ community and being so respectful and full of wit!❤

Love the channel. Welcome back. Yeah, not conjoined twins. The survivability would have been pretty damn low in that period. From the depictions I'd definitely go with gay. Also--and for the first 2/3 I was "what's going on with Raven's nails"? and then I made the connection, thanks to my slow, old brain. (It was very distracting by the way.) And, maybe I missed it, but as the names share the 'khmun', what do -'hotep' and 'Niankh-' mean, and is there a connection? Another, unrelated thing--since you don't focus your camera in a way that I can read the titles of your books--can you do a "reading-list" video or something? Again (again), love your channel. Be well.

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

Gotta be manicured when talking about manicurists! 💅 though I did pick a particularly bright and distracting colour haha

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

I’ll have to look more into the names, but I’m not sure what hotep and Niankh mean right off the bat… my ancient Egyptian hasn’t been used in a few years. And I can definitely do a reading list/bookshelf tour video! I’ve got one for my top archaeology books on my channel if you’re interested 😊

@gregreeder828

Жыл бұрын

@@DigItWithRaven Hotep means peace or satisfaction. It's a loaf of bread on an offering table. Khnumhotep then means Khnum is satisfied or at peace. Ankh means life. Niankhkhnum means life belongs to Khnum.

I loved this! ❤

Da! Of course there are homosexuals going back to beginning of humans, far far earlier than Egyptians.

Heyyy you..... I just missed you........🌸🌸

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

Hey hey! Glad to be back!

As a queer history lover I’m so glad that I live in a time where people are reconsidering their biases in history and archeology. I always imagine closeted victorian historians face palming every time their colleagues called sappho or achillies straight but not being able to say anything to the contrary. Of course we shouldn’t just run wild and not use our critical thinking skills and assume everyone was gay because that is just as biased as assuming everyone throughout time was perfectly straight. Loved the video Raven!

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

Thanks so much, Cara! 😊 and I agree, it’s all about finding that balance and being aware of your own inherent bias. It’s great that all these areas are opening up and we’re able to look at history through another lens without being shunned (or worse)

@l_a_u_y8916

Жыл бұрын

Queer history ? Lmao is that even a real term? Or is it the trendy label that replaced the label goth?

@CaraTheStrange

Жыл бұрын

@@l_a_u_y8916 When i say Im a queer history lover i mean that i am queer (not straight) and also a history lover. Also what do goths have to do with any of this, thats a whole other subculture that arose in the 1970s and 1980s around goth music and fashion.

@donnalewis3975

6 ай бұрын

An GOD still felt the same it's an abomination to him that's why he destroyed Rome an sadom and gamorh. This wickedness has spread like wild fire .praying for you that you find Jesus Christ before it's to late .it will cause you to go to hell . Acts2:38-42.Acts4:10-12 he loves u all find him before it's to late . Repent!

@Goldenseraph8

6 ай бұрын

@donnalewis3975 people with a heart of light would not try to belittle people due to personal insecurities and trying to feel better about themselves from a fictitious text that has slavery as a good concept. That does not represent Devine Light and unconditional love. This is the only truth.

Thanks for the Vid. Maybe i missed it but is there information regarding their remains? I presume the grave was robbed or they have rotted away, else at least the conjoined twins theory would be easy to prove or disprove and maybe even the twin theory.

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

I forgot to mention in the video, but unfortunately their remains weren’t found in the tomb so there’s not biological way to confirm the sibling or twin theory

Love the nails, so eye-catching. I loved this video, keep it up! Currently taking an Archaeology of Death course for my history degree and it's all so extremely fascinating.

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

Ahh thank you!! 💅 they’re even brighter in person haha. That arch course sounds amazing! As someone who focussed on funerary archaeology, I’m biased but I think it’s the best 😉

@elihinze3161

Жыл бұрын

That sounds like a fascinating class! So jealous!!

they were tombmates

Great video! Conjoined twins is hilarious to me 😂 🤯

“This ain’t no bro hug okayyy”😂😂😂

Ever watch those documentaries where twins who are apart sometimes have same jobs or names. Pretty interesting.

Isn't there a papyrus that's the oldest recorded instance of erotic art and it's done by ancient Egyptians where there's depictions of every kind of combination of sex play possible and impossible? That's not the same thing as a romantic pairing of men as described here. If, that papyrus does unambiguously depict men enjoying each other's company, it may be worth another video. :)

They were conjoined twins. So how did they get to opposite ends of that long banquet table? 🤔

It looked like I meant that they were a reflection of each other, but ofc we can only speculate

Thank you so much for this! I came upon it in researching a song cycle we're working on called 'Madmen In Love" - re-Queering Gay couples throughout history who've been erased. It's a project that started after making "Love Is On Our Side," the Love story between 13th century Islamic scholar/Sufi founder/adored poet Rumi and the dervish Shams of Tabris (- it is here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/lKqawah8d86qqKg.html ). Niankhkhnum and Khnumhotep are next on the list. Thank you for the history and for your wonderful perspective - on the greay area magic, and on how interpreting history can include non-literal exploration and - a suggestion that I've never heard before and thank you for - humour.

LONG LIVE KIANKHKHNUM & KHNUMHOTEP! The lotus flower and the hand placement *bingo* 🏳️‍🌈❤

Everytime an American says Michael Angelo instead of Michelangelo, ten puppies die.

Something to consider is that sexuality, especially between family members, was not necessarily frowned upon. Especially in the upper Escalon (sp?). It was even encouraged, according to some, which is one of the things that directly lead to the fall of the civilization. Plus don't forget that in a number of societies, homosexuality wasn't even really a thing. I don't mean that it wasn't there, it was more of a "Love whomever you're with!" kind of situation. It was definitely prevalent in Buddhist sects.

The brothers theory holds the least water imo. Queer or conjoined are the ones I find the most plausible, but that's of course taking into account that I literally know barely anything about the subject.

Greeks weren’t the first folks to “go Greek”. If it hadn’t been happening no one would’ve thought to prohibit it, just the same as prostitution. Both reduced the likelihood of higher birth rates.

The conjoined twins theory work very well to explain the unicity of the finding, I have a hard time imaging a lot of such twins reaching such a hig position in society and, by consequence, having the money to commission a non-standard tomb. But the gay lover One Is so much sweeter. I think we need two fanfictions, one suitable for children and the other ... not so much.

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

It’s really interesting to look at how different ancient cultures viewed and treated people with disabilities. In many cases they were celebrated and reached higher positions. I’m no expert but there’s a lot of work being done in this field lately

@M.M.83-U

Жыл бұрын

@@DigItWithRaven very interesting.

I'm all for the interpretation that they were couple, though of course I'm not unwilling to also consider other interpretations. I'm a trans woman and an archaeology student and for my own thesis next year I'm hoping to discuss a Roman burial that may or may not represent a trans individual in the Roman Empire, so I love to see more of these sorts of queer interpretations of ancient archaeology and see that we (queer folks in general) have always existed no matter the time, place or culture.

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

Oh wow your thesis sounds so interesting!!

@SaszaDerRoyt

Жыл бұрын

@@DigItWithRaven it should be, just hoping I'll get the appropriate permissions to work with the remains of this individual and properly investigate the questions I'd need to look into. Even if not it'll be a good case study to jump into a wider review of trans identity in Roman culture

@godisgooey

Жыл бұрын

Emperor Elagabalus was known to have male lovers and asked his main one to call him His wife. He is also “reported” to be the first person in history to ask Roman doctors if they could perform a transgender operation on him.

Them both being manicurists should be a dead giveaway that they are more than friends 😉

Love is Love I’m just tired of everything being labeled. Just mind your business. Love the Lord and be a good person. Just Love!! ❤

Outstanding presentation !!!

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much!

As far as cojurned twins, couldn’t they just look at the buried bodies? Enjoyed the the video

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

We don’t have any burial remains unfortunately 😭

Interesting.

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

Glad you think so!

I am curious as to how many references(good, bad or indifferent) to same sex couples there are in Egyptology. I can't really find anything outside of these two. The thing is that there is such a bias against it in that part of the world, and in the western world in general that we could just be denied any actual depictions by those that want to see the world one way. Until that portion of the world becomes less controlled by the sons of Abraham I fear we won't know a lot about what actually went on there.

Scandalous! Oh my

Fascinating video!

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it!!

As a queer Egyptian, I really feel shamed when the government and archeologist keep lying about it. Ancient Egypt was very queer, and gay people exists in history and in every civilization. Only religion, colonization and oppression which keep hiding and obliterating it.

Where are their bodies?

@pendragonsxskywalkers9518

3 ай бұрын

Missing.

What was the likelihood that the mother of one was wetnurse to the other - with the wetnurse's son being raised as compaion whipping boy in lieu of the other?

LGBTQ has always been here. I'm bisexual/ queer and honor it. Even though I choose to harness my sexual energies.

Established same sex coupling in not a modern construct. So, the danger of imposing one's modern perception or interpretation bias does not necessarily have to be an issue.

KZread suggested me this video and i am so glad it did, even if Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum were twins or brothers they still can be lovers, correct me if i am wrong, but love and marriage between siblings were pretty normal in ancient Egypt, right?! so Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum can be twins and lovers too and i totally agree with you on what you have mentioned @4:35 these are people from different times and cultures which lots of archaeologists and people seem to forget and want them to fit into our modern society norms. thank you so much Raven, you are awesome 💖💖💖💖💖

@pendragonsxskywalkers9518

3 ай бұрын

Siblings marriage weren't common in ancient Egypt among non-royals, however I don't think it was banned either. Anyway, they are men, so it could be treated different.

Hulk Hogan: Hey Brother - wanna get buried with me?

THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO AND YOU ARE A PRETTY WOMAN APPRECIATE YOUR KNOWLEDGE

I would like to remind at the possibility that there is way way way more evidence of homosexuality being normal back then that could have been purposely destroyed by archeologists later.

I ship it-

💜

AS A GAY PERSON I DPMT UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE IN ANY TIME HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WHO I LIKE AS A PERSON

💅

You are so cute 😂❤

😂"they were manicurist"😂 ok that says it all😂

If one conjoined twin dies, surely the other will die at the same time or soon after. That would explain them being buried together perhaps?

🚩⚗️🚩

No Greeks have that title!!!

"The gays of this culture during this time aren't like they are today...." [sic] is an example of Philosophical Bias in history/anthropology/sociology. Please show me this supposedly monolithic experience of being LGBTIQ+ today? I mean LGBTIQ+ peoples are so diverse there's a "+" symbol in the descriptor. Likewise the experience of being a person who fits within that very broad group of descriptions of human sexuality doesn't even mesh within the same culture and between class structures, or sub-cultures; little alone across the 6,000+ cultures of the planet today.

Ridiculous. They were brothers. Kings are depicted in the same embrace with gods/divinities. Yet another falacy to justify why only traditional African perspectives correctly care-take the legacy of Kemet as it should be revered. Not debauchery for the sake of entertainment.

They were manicurists i mean come on now. Lets Occam's razor this.

Come on … they were manicurists

The thing is not all cultures view men hugging or kissing as a romantic thing. If you've spent time to Europe or Middle East and Asia, men do show affection to eachother in different ways even among those continents it differes greatly. Also most cultures use honorifics such as "brother" & "sister" to those were not related too. I think we have to remember to take our western bias lens out of this, its hard to understand if you haven't lived amongst these cultures.

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

Yes! Completely agree. We need so much more discourse between cultures so we can do our best to rewrite a lot of history that was assumed under a western bias

@goUkraine

10 ай бұрын

True, but what is your point? This tomb had two men depicted not only in intimate embrace, but also with Lotus flowers. Oh, and one of them remarked that the other's backside was "lovely". They were also buried together for all eternity. Oh, and no references to offspring. At all. You are BLIND and WILLFULLY SO. You can try and twist it as much as you like, but that is a homosexual couple. Or at least bisexual.

@pendragonsxskywalkers9518

3 ай бұрын

You are right, however in ancient Egypt this type iconogrpahy was restricted to couples. Also, in Egypt lovers did reffer each other as 'brother and sister'. Even in today cultures it happens - form example word 'soulmate' in my language means 'brotherly soul'.

I think that there have always been people who are gay . No big deal , but how far do we approve of this ideal ? Just a thought.

People are putting too much in this. It merely represents team work. It reminds me of the time I was in the Army and one of the guys made a comment in a group that I had a nice body. It was a true statement and merely an observation not a declaration. Everyone present was straight and nothing was meant by it.

@pendragonsxskywalkers9518

3 ай бұрын

But here you don't have any statement. You have image of two guys touching by noses - which in Egypt usually meant kiss of married couple. Now, it does not mean they certainly were lovers - however that is why we think they could be in first place.

How accurate is it to leave a historical event where there is sketchy information / data , to modern interpretation? are you saying that ancient Egyptian culture is the same of our modern culture? no data to support.

@octavia4324

8 ай бұрын

Homosexuality is not as modern as you think

Thats a reach thats not what i see in the paiting.

@pendragonsxskywalkers9518

3 ай бұрын

In painting there are two men who noses touch each other. That is ancient depicting of kiss. You can speculate wheter relationship was platonic or romantic, but images depict kiss.

@elski5067

3 ай бұрын

@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518they are brother and i was talking about the cave paiting. Its a paiting of aman running. We accept diverse sexuality we dont have to lie about it.

@pendragonsxskywalkers9518

3 ай бұрын

@@elski5067 There is no evidence they are brothers. Their parents are not named in tomb. They could be brothers or lovers - both interpretations are possible.

@elski5067

3 ай бұрын

@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 yes there is it's a tomb with their parents also buried in. Even gods do this embrace in Egypt. Bet you didn't even read about the topic you just wish it could be true lol

@pendragonsxskywalkers9518

3 ай бұрын

@@elski5067 There is no tomb of their parents. Their parents are unknown. ' Even gods do this embrace in Egypt.' - It's not about embrace, it's about noses toiching. This was what lovers did. And I assure you - I read about topic. That's how I know they parents tomb was not found. And actually, if they would be conjoined twins, that would be super excitement to me - as it would be interesting medical example of two unseparable twins surviving into adulthood. But there is no proof to this.

Based on the inscription, i would say TWINS

@goUkraine

10 ай бұрын

Only problem with your theory is: 1. Lotus flowers 2. One of them saying the other's backside was "lovely" That is a homosexual couple, but any measure or definition.

@pentz1

10 ай бұрын

@@goUkraine Only problem with your theory is the inscription..."he came forth with me from the womb on the same day."

@pendragonsxskywalkers9518

3 ай бұрын

@@pentz1 That is not about THIS couple. It was about other couple she was talking about.

Pure lies thats his_story u talking about not fubu..

@pendragonsxskywalkers9518

2 ай бұрын

????? Where do you see any lie?

Adam and Steve 😜

This is what happens when people plagarise Nubian/African stories and artefacts. Anything seen and drawn on walls, floors, doors or else where should be considered as plagiarism, from early vandals

these are twin brothers dont spread misinformation on cushitic peoples ancient forefathers

@pendragonsxskywalkers9518

3 ай бұрын

There is absolutely no evidence they were twins. It is possible, of course, but unproven. Also - it's Egypt, not modern world. They could be twins and lovers...

@cushitic173

3 ай бұрын

@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 they were for sure twins brotherly love u realize ancient egypt is not a western culture it was in africa and next to middle east both areas which never supported same sex relationships infact were very much against it

@cushitic173

3 ай бұрын

@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 the modern world is the one that promotes this bs while ancient cultures didnt only rome/egypt did which western cultutre comes from if u look at egypt its close to levent and saudi where the 3 abrahamic relgions come from which are all against homosexuality all afro asiatic tribes are even today which ancient egyptians would fall under the cushitic and semeitic groups never did this

@pendragonsxskywalkers9518

3 ай бұрын

@@cushitic173 'they were for sure twins brotherly love' - No evidence to that. 'ancient egypt is not a western culture' - It isn't modern Africa/Middle East either. There is no evidence of penalty to same gender relationship in ancient Egypt.

@cushitic173

3 ай бұрын

@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 ancient africa and ancient middle east had the same viewpoint on homosexuality it was never allowed i know ancient egypt well they wouldnt allow it

bro they didnt even kiss 💀💀💀💀💀

@pendragonsxskywalkers9518

3 ай бұрын

Touching noses meant kiss in ancient Egyptian art.

They are not the first but rather the people of Lut who are during the sumerian era during Abraham and they were the ones God sent his wrath on for this act. So egyptian are not the first.

The ancient Egyptians did not embrace homosexuality, as evidenced by references in their Pyramid Texts and the Book of the Dead. It is important to acknowledge their historical customs and practices without imposing modern perspectives. African cultures, including the ancient Egyptians, generally held a unanimous stance against homosexuality. It is essential to approach this topic with respect and appreciation for their cultural heritage.

@donnalewis3975

6 ай бұрын

I didn't realize how wicked this world until u start searching for history.i know that Africa will put u in jail or kill u for laying with another man but i read on egyptians an homosexuals did do that in Roman an Arabs times..they both he ad a lot of homosexual but not as much as romans .but the gays could be lying to make those men look bad but i doubt not romans was wicked people . They all were they all believed to n other Gods except one but Romans finally stop that others God's an had Jesus Christ. The white supremacy Jesus Christ not all but the majority..alot of hatred out there . Amen I pray for the world that they all find God an follow his commandments an be obedient to him 🙏♥️ Acts2:38-42Acts4:10-12.

@pendragonsxskywalkers9518

3 ай бұрын

This text interpretation is uncertain. There is no evidence of any penalty on male lovers in ancient Egypt either.

🏳‍🌈🏳‍🌈🏳‍🌈

@DigItWithRaven

Жыл бұрын

and it's LGBT history month in the UK!

when you have a corrupted mind you will see things and the world in that way.

@goUkraine

10 ай бұрын

This tomb had two men depicted not only in intimate embrace, but also with Lotus flowers. Oh, and one of them remarked that the other's backside was "lovely". They were also buried together for all eternity. Oh, and no references to offspring. At all. You are BLIND and WILLFULLY SO. You can try and twist it as much as you like, but that is a homosexual couple. Or at least bisexual. The "corrupted mind" is YOURS.

The part where the wife was edited out of the banquet scene... And it was the more masculine of the 2 who had to edit her out. Meanwhile the more feminine one is sittin pretty on the other end holding his flower... Does this need a fanfic? 🫢

I love when contemporary political activism gets injected into history. Just kidding. Actually I hate everything about it.

They are just twin. Sorry Africa will not fullfil your fantasy. You think your culture can explain the world but you are wrong.

@goUkraine

10 ай бұрын

Wow, are you ever wrong... This tomb had two men depicted not only in intimate embrace, but also with Lotus flowers. Oh, and one of them remarked that the other's backside was "lovely". They were also buried together for all eternity. Oh, and no references to offspring. At all. You are BLIND and WILLFULLY SO. You can try and twist it as much as you like, but that is a homosexual couple. Or at least bisexual.

@alphacharm

10 ай бұрын

Africa has many history of lgbt in ancient history. Dogon in Mail, Yoruba in Nigeria, Uganda..etc

@yashshah8452

7 ай бұрын

Why are these “twins” kissing?

@pendragonsxskywalkers9518

3 ай бұрын

And your evidence is...? Also, even if they were twins, they could be lovers also.

@ime3126

3 ай бұрын

@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 for m'y evidence it's cultural traditions of Africa ... mâle nailist and relatives or freinds namming and attitudes

My belief is they were twins, not lovers. They have a deep brotherly. Egyptians didn't have that type of sexual behavior.

@goUkraine

10 ай бұрын

Wow, are you ever wrong... This tomb had two men depicted not only in intimate embrace, but also with Lotus flowers. Oh, and one of them remarked that the other's backside was "lovely". They were also buried together for all eternity. Oh, and no references to offspring. At all. You are BLIND and WILLFULLY SO. You can try and twist it as much as you like, but that is a homosexual couple. Or at least bisexual. "Egyptians didn't have that type of sexual behavior." -- Yes they did, and in fact it is documented in their own words. You are FOOLISH.

@alphacharm

10 ай бұрын

Yes they did

@pendragonsxskywalkers9518

3 ай бұрын

Every ethnicity on Earth have gay people... They could be twins/brothers, but your reasoning is lame.

Please stop spreading misinformation these people didn’t even condone homosexuality in kemet

@Dk-hx2zv

Жыл бұрын

Dude im Egyptian but a7a are you dumb on purpose or fr? Cuz dude ancient Egyptian didnt have abrahamic religions i dont think they looked at gay couples and were like nope

@Dk-hx2zv

Жыл бұрын

This isnt misinformation its facts you just trying to force heterosexuality on our ancestors cuz you dont want to think of how lgbt could be a thing since the dawn of time

@binghamguevara6814

11 ай бұрын

⁠@@Dk-hx2zvThis disgusting word heterosexuality is from lgbqia+. It exists after the lgbtqua sexual feelings sciences became mainstream. Heterosexuality is like the word nig**er, a word that white Europeans gave to the black community. Heterosexuality is a European colonisation word.

@goUkraine

10 ай бұрын

You are a liar. It was more acceptable than you think. This tomb had two men depicted not only in intimate embrace, but also with Lotus flowers. Oh, and one of them remarked that the other's backside was "lovely". They were also buried together for all eternity. Oh, and no references to offspring. At all. You are BLIND and WILLFULLY SO. Your mind has been poisoned by modern religion.

@maxs.3238

5 ай бұрын

​@@binghamguevara6814 seldom have i heard such stupidity in such a short text😂😂😂

I hope you won't go 'woke' on us.

@goUkraine

10 ай бұрын

What is "woke" about history? Your mind has been poisoned.

@pendragonsxskywalkers9518

3 ай бұрын

@@goUkraine There are instances when people go to far. For example Roman emperor Elagabalus - some of his enemies claimed he wanted became woman. We have no words from him. Yet now many people calim him as 'trans emperr' and one museum decided reffer to him as 'Empress', despite fact there are no words from him an he literally depicted himself as man with facial hair. Yes, in instance of Niankhnum and Knumhotep images suggest they could be romantic partners. But there are abolsutely are examples when people try 'go woke' on history, like with case of Elagabalus.