Like many below I started as a cop in the revolver era, and still carried a 1911 a while before the M9 took over. Like these folks, I've seen the end results of a few "bullet vs. bone" battles as well. There are some handgun loads that work better than others, and they seem to do so with a higher rate of success. Although it is true that shot placement is critical, can all of us guarantee we will be that "Lethal Weapon / Martin Riggs" accurate when things turn south? Since none of us can make that claim , it's only common sense to hedge your bet. The switch back to 9mm by many departments is not entirely due to ammo improvements. Cost and cuts to training budgets, lawsuits from smaller framed or recoil sensitive cadets, and even trying to seem less "aggressive" to the public and politicians came into play. The fact has remained though, that some rounds simply DO get the job done better and more consistent than others.

I'll be brutally honest here. I served right at three tours in Vietnam. They were 13 months each. I engaged the enemy with an M14 and a 1911A1in 45 Auto. And as a peace officer for years, I was in three shootings. I used a .357mag S&W M28. In all those shootings on the street, and as a soldier, I do feel more than qualified to say the following. I know that a .45 ACP 230gr ball load will stop an enemy. I know that a .357mag 125gr JHP will stop a felon in his tracks. I know from personal experience. They buried 3, and the fourth has only one leg. A 9mm, is marginal at best. Far too many rounds have been fired by police officers, in 9mm, that took multiple rounds to stop the suspect. Whereas, a single .357mag, dropped the suspect in his tracks. A couple years ago I put down a 425 pound wild boar down with a single shot from my 45 Colt with a 255gr SWC and 40gr of black powder. I know what works, and what doesn't. Now I'm going to drop the mike and go shoot my new to me, .45 Auto 1911A1 FS I picked up today. Yeah, I don't trust 9mm, but a 45 Auto, or a 45 Colt? Hell yeah! Preach the gospel my friend. The man running this channel is more than a guy with a KZread video library. He's an experienced shooter, who knows about these things, just as I do. I recognize him as a pro, and I trust him explicitly. We've walked the same paths, only in different locations. 🎤 ⬅ that's the mike being dropped....

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Very much appreciated , brother.

@anangryranger

Жыл бұрын

@@plowboysghost Any time amigo. I always look forward to seeing your videos and adventures. Just two old southern rebels in the woods, but in different spots.😁

@JesusChrist-xk9ee

9 ай бұрын

Bullshit

@juancarlopedroza1145

4 ай бұрын

Thank you for your service

I was an LEO in the 80s and also was a Police Fireatms Instructor. I was taught and trained others at the time 2 shoots center mass and one in the head. We carried Smith and Wesson Model 10 Heavy Barrel and the issued ammo was 125 grain +P SJHP. Believe me that these rounds will provide stopping power. I have used the rounds on deer and dog that were injured by auto to dispatch them as well. I carry a .357 mag revolver with full .357 loads but I know even .38 spl wadcutters will stop most persons if they are hit center mass.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching and commenting.

@carlosmorris4510

11 ай бұрын

I'm a .357 Mag man myself... But about .45 Colt; have these people even seen the SIZE of a .45 Colt cartridge? 👀... It's a big ole round - larger than a .44 (although not as powerful)! I wouldn't wanna be hit by it. All it takes is a 9mm vs .45 Colt size comparison; they're not even close!

@plowboysghost

11 ай бұрын

@@carlosmorris4510 .45 Colt, in it's peak form for specific guns which are strong enough to handle it, can and does surpass every .44 Magnum load in power and potential. Buffalo Bore has that 340-gr "+P+" .44 Mag load that produces a higher energy figure on paper, but then for a Redhawk or custom cylindered 5-shot .45 Colt Randy Garrett offers a 405-gr load that ranks higher on the Taylor Knock Out (TKO) scale the the top .44 Mag. from BB.

@carlosmorris4510

11 ай бұрын

@@plowboysghost Wow - that's extremely powerful! 💥👍

@classicgunstoday1972

11 ай бұрын

2 to the chest 1 to the head. Mozambique Drill

Ask a scientist if there's "stopping power." They'll say "no." Ask a combat veteran if there is "stopping power." They'll say "yes." Who are you gonna trust when it comes to self-defense advice?

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

I believe the disagreement stems from either a lack of understanding, or disparate definitions, at the very least.

I don't know about what all these so called experts on KZread are talking about but I was fishing in Alaska a Kodiak Bear came out of no where charging and one shot 360 grain 454 stopped him dead in his tracks 3 foot from me, I would consider that stopping power one thing for sure he didn't have me for lunch🙂

@plowboysghost

11 ай бұрын

I'd consider that stopping power, as well!

Great video! And don't forget how much unintended damage was done on the set of Rust with a single low velocity "cowboy" round. Being shot, in general, is bad news.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Exactly.

You tell em plowboy! Bigger the hole the bigger the leak!

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Dang skippy!

thank god! someone besides me thinks that 'only carry 5' is bs I think it is a line from a John Wayne movie. Hogs and dogs.... 'MOSTLY" they are down in one shot from a 44 mag. not always tho. There were some good studies by Marshal I believe on stopping power where he actually did the research from police and civilians that included in most cases the autopsy reports. At that time the 125 grain JHP in .357 had the best handgun record. 44 mag missed out cause a couple of guys did not realize they were dead. But.... A 12 gauge shotgun had far better results as did the little .223. The study took only results from what would be considered the vitals.... lots of bad guys got shot and got to a hospital but all the fight was out of em from a leg or elbow or whatever shot. To me? so far as people against people are concerned? those were one shot 'stops' as in.... he stopped being a problem.

.357 Magnum 125 Grain JHP Remington Preferably

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

It's worked many a time!

@thecowboyway

Жыл бұрын

@@plowboysghost It's The Cartridge That Gave The .357 It's Manstopper Rep LE Still Trying To Find Something That Comes Close And That's All They Get Is Close Never Have Replicated It

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

@@thecowboyway In terms of collected data, due to such a large number of data points from it being a LE round and involved in so many shootings for decades, agreed.

@DesertHusker

Жыл бұрын

230 grain FMJ in a 5" 1911 pistol works....50,000 dead japs on Iwo Jima can't be wrong.😉

@anangryranger

Жыл бұрын

That's what we were issued in the PD when we carried real guns. It was VERY effective. When the dept changed to 9mm, one shot was no longer an option for a cranked up meth-head.

How I see it is "stopping power" is actually "chance of stopping". What gun/bullet/load you use is simply a function of how much you want to stack the odds in your favor. Any gun can cause a one shot stop on a human. But, smaller calibers simply don't do it consistently. That's where the chance to stop comes in. Shot placement being equal a big caliber that transfers energy to the target in such a way as to stop the target will be a better choice. The .45 long colt and .45acp were both designed for this job. They both do it admirably well. The .44 does a great job too. The .357 is good with the right load.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

The best way to troll 9mm Para advocates is to pretend to be a .30 super carry advocate and just apply all the same arguments they use.

Shot placement is everything.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

It is.

Shot Placement is definitely paramount. You hit the things that keep the body Vertical, and I Guarantee it WILL Stop. 👍🏼

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Agreed.

Most of the people arguing the caliber wars would do well to read Elmer Keith and see why he concluded a hard cast semi-wad cutter was the way to go… keep up producing these great materials!

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Thank you, much!

I agree with you about “stopping power” but as I commented on one of your other videos, Wyatt Earp said in an interview that he and every serious person, did carry only 5 rounds. He said it was because “they had great respect for the power of the round.” This, to my mind, only gives credence to the argument that certain rounds do have stopping power.

In 1899, Moro tribesmen in the Philippines took umbrage toward a United States occupation force in the southern islands, thereby initiating what became known as the Moro Rebellion. The Moros were fanatical fighters, with a reputation of resistance toward any outside rule. Officers in the U.S. force were armed with Colt Model 1892 revolvers chambered in .38 Long Colt.. The load at the time featured a 150-grain lead round-nose bullet launched at 750 f.p.s. using smokeless powder. Muzzle energy was 201 ft.-lbs., about the same energy as a .380 ACP with a 90-grain bullet. The Moros were reputed to tie themselves up with strips of vegetation from the jungles to prevent excessive bleeding and ingested locally made drugs to block the pain from wounds. Engagements involving the Colt double-action Model 1892 often resulted in the officer being killed or severely wounded by these motivated Moro juramentados. The Army dug up the old Single Action Army in 45 LC..shipped them to the Philippines and that did the trick apparently

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

That it did! They brought the old warhorse out the pasture and it quickly went about doing what it does best....STOPPING threats.

I shot a buck last year, 25-06 117 grain through the heart and out the other side. It ran 40 yards but I consider it a one shot stop. My 45-70 with cast lead 405 grain lets the air out without hydrostatic shock. It's a whitetail killing machine. Great video.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Thank you.

I remember back in the 90's that the 357 mag 125 gr jhp had a 96% one shot stopping power.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

It was definitely up there.

Funny thing is the brown bess British musket does not deliver hydrostatic shock so i guess no one died in the revolution. Lol but i guess that 3/4 inch hole in there chest was a bit tough on em

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Same thing with the deer i've killed with a .577 Enfield. On paper, they are nothing interesting. In reality? They are DEVASTATING on a living critter! One buck was effectively GUT shot, and only made it 20 yards before he collapsed and died...corn coming out of the bullet exit hole.

@garrettfromsmokeinthewoods

Жыл бұрын

@@plowboysghost When you get back to shooting videos, I'd like to see some civil war muzzle loaders again

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

@@garrettfromsmokeinthewoods When I get back to buying some, I'll sure show 'em.

That’s the way I see it to!

@plowboysghost

3 ай бұрын

🤠👍

I have destroyed locust fence posts and cut down saplings with .45 Colt. I guess all the guides up bear country carry the Ruger Alaskan for shits and grins?

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

They must...since handguns "don't stop threats". 😁

I have been thinking about 357 v.s. 45 Colt. Both are effective at stopping anti-social behavior but the 45 does it with lower pressure and blast. I think there might be some advantage in that.

I had the same discussion with a very close friend of mine the other day on why there is such a thing as handgun stopping power comparisons. My argument is if there's no such thing as stopping power in handgun cartridges then how come 9mm is not deemed to be a very good hunting round but 44 magnum is good to go both handgun cartridges but evidently one of them does something better than the other one.

@plowboysghost

11 ай бұрын

Exactly!

Elmer Keith stopped a charging Bull with his 45 colt, one shot to the head, Bull went down. One shot stop.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

I've known of cattle killed with .22LR to the head...one shot, too.

Excellent responses and intro Sir. Not having to carry a weapon for a living anymore I reckon I can throw in my two cents. Place your rounds where they need to be and normally with such placement it will accomplish your intent. The last 15 years I've personally carried a .357 Sig as it provides a very good return on your money. I also like the idea of 12 or more of 'em. Best Regards, Friend.

Somebody was telling me that they are Glocks was more powerful than my plowboy load and I laughed and walked away😊

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Well...I'm sure there are 10mm loads for a Glock 10mm that will have more power on paper...but paper ballistics don't tell the whole story of terminal effectiveness. In my opinion, anyway.

A lot goes into ballistics, and a lot goes into how a person can 'absorb' rounds. People try to simplify it down to single "factors" and such. They may be useful as a point of reference....but.... I listened to one youtuber (alleged x-SEAL) claim that grip does NOT affect accuracy. Not in my experience with biomechanics, maybe he has more supple or flexible hands than me. Just an anecdote. I've always told people to shoot what is most comfortable to shoot for the threats you intend to use it against, and get as accurate as possible with it.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. It's "complicated" ...and saying "always" or "never" doesn't cover it.

@DerMeister821

Жыл бұрын

@@VictoriaCortes1717 Well, I need to see a competition score/course of fire from him at 20 or 25 yards. lol Biomechanics are real, regardless. Like I also said, maybe it isn't as big a factor for him and possibly he is gifted in that aspect. Most aren't, so to say it's NOT IMPORTANT (ever, for anyone) is wrong.

Like Razor Dobbs knocking Nilgai, deer, and Elk with a 10mm at 50 yards right at that spot. Shot placement is key but hit in the the same spot, a full power 10mm versus a .380, if you will, delivers a lot more KINETIC ENERGY than the .380, which is “stopping power”. Smart car hits a wall at 30 MPH versus an F-350 at 30 MPH, the F-350 will a ton more damage to that wall. (180 grain 10mm at 1,250 fps versus .380 90 grain at about 1,000 fps)💁🏽‍♂️

"My Rottweiler vs any handgun, someone chooses to carry. Because while they're shooting my dog, I'll put a hole in their head with Taurus, 856 revolver, loaded with a 158gr swc-hp by Buffalo Bore. But they better be fast shooting my dog, or he'll eat them for lunch." hahaha

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

No experience with self defense or military or law enforcement just hunting. Every critter I ever shot anywhere but the brain died of blood loss. It’s just a matter of how fast and a bigger hole means faster. Yes you can sever the spine to incapacitate something but it doesn’t matter if it’s a 22 or a 44 magnum you need to hit it somewhere vital.

@plowboysghost

11 ай бұрын

Thank you.

I know this is an older video but you are so correct! It seems that the marketing of higher velocity and "modern bullet technology" has been used very successfully to convince a huge group of people to use the 380 long (9mm). The old school stuff still works best. Auto loaders have a disadvantage since they have to sacrifice bullet shape in order to run reliably. A broader flat surface or an expanding semi jacketed bullet in 38/357 will always be more effective. The copper jackets prevent reliable expansion in pretty much everything but jello blocks. If you happen to live around a bunch of renegade jello blocks I suppose 9mm would be just fine.

i have experienced 1st hand a 255gr 45 colt standard pressure from double tap 1 shot a man, saved mine and my families life.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Dang...

Two men were shot, one with a 45 Colt, one with a 44 magnum. They met at the pearly gates, one said to the other, "How'd you get here?" He answered, "I think I was hit by a freight train." To which the other replied, " Yeah, me too!" Moral of the story: Don't underestimate the Ol' 45 Colt.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Perzactly!

So over the last year or so. Every time I look at a 1st gen colt SAA, If it has its original hammer and it's not been worked on in the past. Every ones safety notch has wear From decades of use. Truth be told I have never seen one that Doesn't have wear on it. One more sign that people did not carry five in the past... There are two kinds of stopping power. The psychological and the physical. With proper shot placement, almost every single pistol caliber can cause both. I know for a fact 9mm ball ammo has plenty of stopping power. seen it with my own eyes. So i am sure 45 colt has lots and lots of stopping power.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

You got that right...and that seems to reinforce my thoughts on the historic use of the notch.

@snappers_antique_firearms

Жыл бұрын

@@plowboysghost mine as well

@A.R.American1

Жыл бұрын

I carry on a empty chamber not becouse that's the right way or the safest way but becouse that's how my grand dad and my dad did and the was I was taught it is so ingrained in my mind I carry my rugers like that also funny I carry all other guns fully loaded and 1 in the chamber but I carry all single actions on a empty chamber makes absolutely no sense but then my wife says I'm a idiot so I guess I got a excuse lol

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

@@A.R.American1 😁 All my SAA clones have 5 in them right now..and my one transfer bar Ruger has 6 in it.

@A.R.American1

Жыл бұрын

@@plowboysghost like I said brother it dont make no sense I'm just a idiot lol

Couldn’t agree more. Great topic and opinion. Thanks for sharing.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

Power factor Calculator and also "Taylor Knock Out Index" are the real deal

Even if it's as weak as a black powder revolver. I don't want someone to shoot me with a slingshot!" hahaha..

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Nor do I.

Agreed brother no argument here

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

10-4!

Someone that I forget the name of did a list of one shot kills over a period of several years . From .22 caliber to 44 magnum . The small calibers had as many kills as the larger calibers . The reason was shot placement .

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

98 times out of 100, placement rules.

Alec Baldwin's 45 colt cowboy revolver must have been magic as it took out 2 persons with one shot, unfortunately. No "stopping power"!

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Exactly.

Great video thank you.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Thank you.

Anyone that says a hand gun, aka pistol does not have stopping power has either not used a handgun. Or is just seriously uneducated, about how much a handgun is capable of. As a pistol of any caliber going off, is in many cases all the stopping power you need. And that includes without hitting a person, as a 22 auto going off at point blank range was all that was need to stop an attack on me at age 16. I was the one holding that 22 auto. The service revolver I was issued as a Pinkerton was a .38 special, carried a 9mm with posted federal hollow points in my Camaro when I was doing deliveries for Pizza Hut. And used an 1860 Army as my service revolver as a Pinkerton, as well as when doing deliveries and hot shot work in my old diesel. Anyone that discounts pistol of any kind, is flirting with a grim reaper. That’s not an attack, it’s just stating the obvious because too many people have died from being shot by a pistol either by accident or on purpose.

@plowboysghost

11 ай бұрын

Lots of underrated pistol cartridges have stopped threats, for sure.

I don't own a 45 colt revolver yet, but I have an NOE mold that drops a 230 HP that will open up over 3/4 of an inch at 1000 fps from my Rossi 92. I sent some to Leverguns50 and he did a video with them too. I don't think anyone that caught one would be in the mood to shoot back.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

I bet they wouldn't, either.

@eddieb1766

Жыл бұрын

@@plowboysghost kzread.info/dash/bejne/dmSqksOngMuYdbw.html Around 2:25 in this video shows the expansion of that bullet from a revolver. I forgot that he used one when he tested it.

Made me laugh, thanks.

A lot of 1 shot stops are psychological stops though, where the person realized they had been shot and gave up. Which is very different then being physically stopped or incapacitated.

@plowboysghost

11 ай бұрын

...and some are one shot stops that aren't psychologically based.

As weak as a 9mm? But that will “blow your lungs right out” the back of your backside. LOL

@plowboysghost

11 ай бұрын

Hehehe...easily!

I also thought hydrostatic shock was only caused by rifle rounds. Or very fast pistol cartridges out of carbines. I think some .357 get there, especially out of longer carbine barrels. I am confused as to how they think this translates to hand gun cartridges. The two types of cartridges work entirely differently because of the velocity difference.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Yep...and hand gun cartridges can and do work.

@thomaspalmer7900

11 ай бұрын

Hydro Shock is mostly found in rifle calibers but also can be found in .357 magnum.44 magnum & 10 mm loads not sure about the .40 caliber. The .45 & 9mm nope!!

@thomaspalmer7900

10 ай бұрын

@@exothermal.sprocket that’s exactly why rifles are so deadly

Great video

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Thank you, kindly.

A gun expert told me once just 1 round from a 9mm with blow your lungs out . To me that's stopping power lol

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

🤣🤣🤣🤣

@A.R.American1

Жыл бұрын

Know that's funny I dont care who ya are lmao

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

@@A.R.American1 🤣

Ever do any light for caliber 41 mag testing? I could only imagine the devistating effects one of those 135 grain Cutting Edge bullets would do to an attacking gel block. Probably turn it into an exploding jelly blob...😂

@plowboysghost

3 ай бұрын

Probably would. I'm not into light for caliber, really. I prefer two big holes over light penetration.

@anonymousf454

3 ай бұрын

@@plowboysghost I guess it would be more of a personal defense type of loading. I was thinking like the old 357 125grain....except even faster and bigger.

Great discussion! 👍

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

@JoseyWalesWi

Жыл бұрын

@@plowboysghost My family and I always enjoy your content!

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

@@JoseyWalesWi I watch yours, as well...brother. Thanks!

Howdy Plowboy

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Hello.

BASED, as the kids say.

@plowboysghost

7 ай бұрын

I had to look that up for the newspeak definition. 😁Thanks!

I bet whoever said that ain’t never been shot! (God forbid) every caliber has potential stopping power but my guess is proper shot placement is the indisputable champion, I don’t want to be shot by a BB gun let alone any projectile, and yes I have been shot with a BB gun! Even they have stopping power because I don’t know anyone in their right mind who would keep coming at someone shooting at them unless they have a death wish or are on crack 😂

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

I didn't enjoy a pellet (air rifle) to the forehead when when I was a kid, either.

Yes sir. I've noticed the same. Lots of hype out there.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

There sure is.

Poking a hole through something shuts it down fairly quickly. An ice pick takes longer than a .45 though.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Yep!

Absolutely.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

👍

Agree totally Plowboy!

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for saying so.

I take exception to muzzle energy constantly being equated to stopping power. It’s not. It’s just the explosive force required to overcome drag and gravity to achieve its full velocity. This ends when the bullet leaves the barrel.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. Terminal effect at times trumps paper ballistics.

This stuff has always bothered me. KZread has created more "experts" in every field than google and Wikipedia and in the majority of any of the three fields listed most doesn't come from experience, but rather from regurgitation of keyboard warriors that bought a gun based on a video game and researched it's potentials via one of the above. Truth is that some gun and ammo combinations kill by blood loss whilst others "stop" whether by death or not via energy released and hunters, LEO's, military veterans etc. know what works and what doesn't and how they work... for example I wouldn't expect a single rb from an .44 cal 1860 Colt to stop a crazed Junky unless the ball shut down his computer as it's more along the lines of a blood loss combo. Also I guarantee you that if you found a cowboy in the 1800's with only five rounds in his six shooter it's because he only had five rounds left! CAS games is where the five round rule was created. Full power 45 Colt rounds will stop anyone or anything we have to worry about around here! that all being said I prefer an AR 10/15 and a 45 ACP high cap for defending the fort against modern threats and I'm not just speaking about crazed junky maniacs, but because that is what the true threat to the great republic will have when they come to steal your freedom. For hunting, camping, plinking and all around fun I always prefer to shoot cap and ball or SAA's etc. I started hunting in the 70's and have always been fascinated with the big bores of yesteryear whether shoved down the muzzle or through a loading gate and the same is true with the old handguns and any of those weapons are just as deadly today as were they then, but when certain drugs are involved I want my 45 Colt (etc.) full power if it's what's on me because even magnum energy is ignored by these individuals unless you completely shut down the computer. Yep they're dead, but they don't realize it soon enough.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

I had someone argue that hydrostatic shock was the only way a bullet kills...not figuring that vital tissues, CNS, hearts, etc.. can be devastatingly damaged by big, slow bullets, too.

@hercules1073

Жыл бұрын

@@plowboysghost Ask these same people if they thought they'd be fine if you slowly pushed a knife blade in or through them if since velocity and shock isn't involved...it's amazing to me how all these gamers are experts on projectile performance based on video games. I don't even want to get into the videos some people put out...I already know from listening to you speak "softly" on the subject that you've seen some of them as well.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

@@hercules1073 I certainly have...and they are an irritation when they chime in "correcting" me.

Handguns work … when used properly within their limits. Understanding this, big, slow, heavy, bullets work better. Mass and shot placement is the goal of “fight-stopping”! Hydrostatic shock is a myth, unless the bullet velocity is over 4,600 fps!

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

I sure don't put much faith in small and fast...unless the threat is a ground squirrel.😁

A public service announcement for those who take definitions of words and spin into a salad. The effects of terminal ballistics is real. If it wasn't than the need for hunting laws would not need caliber/energy limitations. For example if everything is created equal how would the justification of 375 HH OR 458 Winchesters mag ever be developed' if 45-70 was the same? Doesn't matter rifle or handgun. Doesn't matter if you call it knock down, killing, or what salad of the day word one wants, not all cartridges are created equal for down range energy delivery . As a man who actually has lived in grizzly country you won't catch me carrying a 9mm for bear defense. If that's someone's cup tea I say good luck. As for me I have my bare minimums based on terminal ballistics. Good job Plowboy Mountain man

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

I got shot with a 45acp 230 hp it’s got plenty of stopping power!

@plowboysghost

11 ай бұрын

Time and battle proven!

I wonder if the S&W 500 magnum has stopping power duhh.

@plowboysghost

2 ай бұрын

It seems like it would 😁

Can we all agree that the only ineffective caliber is .25acp?🤣

Agree but my motto is my handgun is a secondary weapon to get me to a long gun. Not an expert but the lowly 22 is a noghin nightmare

@thebluesrockers

Жыл бұрын

My dad was shot and killed by a 22lr. I don't care if someone has a black powder, Revolver. They killed people for over 100 years. Don't think you're invincible to one of those. because they will kill you too.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

My dad was killed with a single .22 rimfire bullet, too.

@thebluesrockers

Жыл бұрын

@@plowboysghost Oh wow. You're the first person that I've met that had that happen. I was 5 yrs old when my mom shot him through the heart, with a Remington 22lr. In their bedroom at about 3:00am. My mom's lawyer got the sentence reduced down to accidental manslaughter. Unbelievable as it is, it's true. Sorry, to hear about your dad. I hope it wasn't your mother who shot him. Peace.. Joe

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

@@thebluesrockers Mine was suicide. PMR 30 .22 Mag...several Easter mornings ago

@thebluesrockers

Жыл бұрын

@@plowboysghost Damn. That sucks.

If a 255 grain hunk of lead moving at 950 feet per second doesn’t have stopping power, than I should be carrying a 340 grain 44 magnum +P+ for my carry gun. And if that doesn’t have stopping power, I’ll have to conceal carry a Smith and Wesson 500 magnum with one of those 700 grain loads. If that doesn’t stop someone, I’m just gonna hide in my basement for the rest of my life.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

That is a very good point!

I think there may be a couple of issues behind some of the confusion. One would be equating the mythical knock down power with the term stopping power. The term knock down power is simple nonsense. No bullet can transfer enough momentum to knock even a skinny meth head down. A bowling pin yes but not a person. Another would be the use of the word power. In the most basic sense it is a rate of energy transfer or the rate at which work is done. This of course is related to energy (e.g. muzzle energy) but at handgun velocities is almost entirely irrelevant. In a more colloquial sense it can be thought of as capability. It seems obvious to me that you are talking in the second sense of power and that makes perfect sense so I think one can, as you say, quite legitimately talk about stopping power in that sense. That said their are a couple caveats to keep in mind. 1. It is really more of a stopping probability as virtually any caliber is capable of stopping in the right circumstances. 2. The effectiveness is often determined more by factors other than caliber. For example a .38spl LWC will usually do more tissue damage and result in more blood loss than a .45acp ball round at the same velocity. So your term is perfectly fine as long as we understand that caliber itself is not enough to predict the probable effectiveness.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Thanks.

My H&R Handi Rifle 17inch barrel with a 158gr with 18 grains of Lil Gun stops Hogs with one shot no problem.

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Guaranteed!

Stopping power is real, Or we all would be carrying .22 revolvers for protection…..

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Yes sir!

stopping power is the combination of accuracy (shot placement) penetration and ”hydrostatic shock” (which is curiously dynamic not static!?). And it is my opinion that they should be put in that order. Just because many people get stopped by handguns does not mean they have stopping power, that is not evidence. Many big game animals are killed with very small calibers, everything from .22LR to .223 Rem. But these calibers don’t stop big animals. Anecdotal evidence, or even the statistical analyses we’ve seen the last 40-50 years don’t really matter either. They have much too small samples to be valid. If the study counts 20 perps shot with a load A, and 20 with a Load B. Both samples are only torso hits, but load A was all shot in the CNS, and Load B in the abdomen, you know nothing of value from that ”science”. How a person reacts to being shot is both psychological and physiological. Most things that bleed are relatively easy to kill - if you place the bullet where it matters. That is very difficult in a defensive situation. Especially with a pistol! This is the first drawback to a handgun, diminishing it’s ”stopping power” greatly. The second is the fact that they need to shoot a larger caliber bullet, with more mass, to have sufficient penetration since velocities are so low. This limits their capacity to expand. A perfect balance between expansion and penetration is probably impossible to achieve for every situation at these low velocities. But this doesn’t matter a lot since the temporary wound cavity is almost non existent in normal handgun calibers. Most of the organs inside of bad guys are very resilient to kinetic force. And the difference in permanent cavity volume of a .36” and a .65” hole s minuscule relative to the size of a human body.Handguns simply do not have the velocities to produce enough hydrostatic shock to rip organs apart. Reading Dr DiMaio’s book ”Gunshot Wounds” I learned that frequently, forensic pathologists cannot distinguish the wound track caused by a hollow point bullet from that caused by a solid bullet. Probably with the exception of hot magnum loads. This quality is somewhat existent in some magnum ammunition though. Handgun hunters know this. And especially in long length barrels. So normal handguns lack in all three: accuracy, penetration, and hydrostatic shock. FBI wound ballistics report wrote: ”The tissue disruption caused by a handgun bullet is limited to two mechanisms. The first, or crush mechanism is the hole that the bullet makes passing through the tissue. The second, or stretch mechanism is the temporary wound cavity formed by the tissue being driven outward in a radial direction away from the path of the bullet. Of the two, the crush mechanism is the only handgun wounding mechanism that damages tissue. To cause significant injuries to a structure within the body using a handgun, the bullet must penetrate the structure. Temporary cavity has no reliable wounding effect in elastic body tissues. Temporary cavitation is nothing more than a stretch of the tissues, generally no larger than 10 times the bullet diameter (in handgun calibers), and elastic tissues sustain little, if any, residual damage.” Lacking shot placement, to achieve stopping power the bullet must be able to tear apart organs that it does not penetrate and crush. This is not achievable with any normal handgun you can carry. So my opinion is still that handguns do not have any stopping power to speak of. Which doesn’t mean they are useless. It means we have to practice, and use the handgun we perform best with.

@plowboysghost

11 ай бұрын

Yet big game animals DO get stopped by bigger handguns....and they also absorb shots from high velocity big game rifles without stopping immediately. Case in point: The 10' Brown bear that charged the two hunters for 400+ yards after absorbing at least 3 shots (one of which was in the vitals and another that went through the shoulder)of .338 Ultra Magnum before being stopped by .454 Casull from a revolver. We can parse this and argue that all day...but a position that big game rifle possess something that certain handgun cartridges cannot is untenable. The hot, light load in that .338 Ultra Mag rifle that day in Alaska had a TKO value of about 34 and failed. (Of course it was a looong shot). It had plenty of what magnum rifle folks consider "stopping power"...but the bear didn't read that article so he'd know to stop. The hottest/heaviest .45 Colt loads from a revolver can reach a 31 or 32 TKO. That .454 Casull load was probably a 32-34. A .475 Linebaugh can reach 38-41...from a revolver. A heavy lead slug from a .45/70 can reach 51-54 TKO...but The Spomers of the world say it's "not as powerful", too...while they heap praise on light and fast...with all the big numbers and shallow penetration that typically comes with it. NO cartridge stops in EVERY circumstance/occasion....not even the big game "ultra magnums" with all their "stopping power"...and handguns can and DO stop both 2 legged and 4 legged threats. If we step back from and cast an honest eye toward the long held and oft chanted mantras of the "experts", we sometimes find that the truth was a little more plain and obvious then their egos wanted us to see.

@CandidZulu

11 ай бұрын

You really don't get it! @@plowboysghost

@plowboysghost

11 ай бұрын

@@CandidZulu One of us sure don't seem to get what the other is saying... Or is it your claim that a .45 Colt/.44 Mag, and up .. etc...NEVER stops a 4 legged threat while big game rifles ALWAYS stop a 4 legged threat? If we cannot say that the handguns that drop a critter have "stopping power" then we cannot say that the big game rifles that allow the animals to run off or continue charging have "stopping power", either. You can argue/compare calculated chances of stops and rate them, if you wish(and I'll agree with true stats) , but at times BOTH stop threats and BOTH fail. If it makes someone feel like they have something more powerful to have a 200-gr hp bullet flying at 3000 fps, penetrating in inches, good for them. I'd prefer 300-400-gr of big meplat hardcast at 1200-1400 fps penetrating in feet. That 500-gr soft cast Minie I put through a buck (and stopped him), didn't have "stopping power" on paper, either....but that big .575 bullet did have a TKO of about 43-45. I watched a Mythbusters episode comparing penetration of bullets through water, into gel...in which NOT ONE rifle bullet made it through the water column to the gel without breaking up..including .50 BMG. That heavy old Minie from a rifle musket passed through the water, the gel, and the wood backstop. Heavy and slow can and does win fights with both 2 and 4 legged critters. All the paper "stopping power" in the world don't help when that little bullet blows up like a bee sting before penetrating to or through something that matters...and hitting heart, lungs, and organs doesn't always STOP an animal...rifle or not. Just wait til I take on the myth of "energy transfer"... that'll really bring the gun writer's drones out in force..

@CandidZulu

11 ай бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/k5OmyauGe5mxYag.html@@plowboysghost

@CandidZulu

10 ай бұрын

You obviously do not understand the basic fundamentals of how bullets work. Defensive handguns Vs Magnum handguns and center fire rifles are very different. I won't bother explaining any more though. @sixgunnerdotorg4425

I killed a big boar hog at 80 yards Saturday with a .22LR. It was a perfect shot right below the ear, i still wouldn't count on a .22 for self defense unless it was all i had though. Certainly not my first choice. 👍

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

Hard to figure that people have killed big bears with .22LR...but they have.

A Men

@plowboysghost

Жыл бұрын

🍻