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@user-zr3qn6xj8r

6 ай бұрын

A Lesson? From Weebles?

Great stuff right here! I am only just figuring this out this year.

@tradertoursgolfdavidtrunga6886

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Christo! It's an honor to see you here. I know you've been dedicated to the golf realm for many years, and your channel has an abundance of excellent content! -David

@MrOsnolaKinnard

2 жыл бұрын

It is nice t see y’all compliment each other and NOT START YT BS DRAMA.

You are misunderstanding the essence of over the top moves that creat slices and dead pull hooks. Yes, a slight over the top move is fine IF and only IF your hips start the downswing. The thought that Hogan was over the top is quite hot right now and guys like Christo Garcia are trying to cash in on this flawed belief. Mr. Hogan started the downswing from and inside position and thus avoided the slice associated with being OTT.

Well done, it has taken me 50 years to understand this by studying film and recording my own pathetic swing. All the old guys swung like this from Vardon, Jones, Locke (who was extreme hott but played a huge draw) to Snead. I prefer to call it "hands over the top" as the club head does not travel ott. All those players, and most modern players, make some adjustment to prevent the club head following the hands ott. You refer to the right shoulder externally rotating, I prefer to think of the lead arm rotating clockwise more, either on the backswing (McIlroy, Morrikawa, Fowler), at the top (Wolff is obvious but many others) or on the downswing (Couples and many others). Some do it gradually throughout the bs and ds. Very few teaching pros understand it because they learnt it naturally as children. Those who started later (I was 17) may have lost the flexibility in the trail shoulder and wrist to learn this move so are doomed to fight ott as I did for 30 years as a PGA pro (UK). I gave golf up for 20 years, took it up again 2 years ago and learnt how to play a draw despite old age and disability. The "modern" method of dropping the club under the plane or "flattening the plane" is only used by a few top players (Trevino was the first I can think of, Garcia has the biggest move) yet so many pros teach it as standard to club golfers who are physically incapable of doing it!! You are one of the few who understand this fundamental (secret?) of golf. Pity you don't get more views.

@tradertoursgolfdavidtrunga6886

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the insightful comment and sharing your experience! You are 100% correct about the old school players like Jones. I also agree that it is more accurate to call it "hands over the top," as most of the great players shallow the club head in transition. Jack Nicklaus definitely had the hands out move as well. Kind Regards, David Trungale

@oldprogolf7292

3 жыл бұрын

@@tradertoursgolfdavidtrunga6886 thank you, you are spot on with Nicklaus. Sadly, recent videos show him struggling at 80. He persists with his upright bs but can not turn his shoulders (like me, he had polio as a boy, did not affect him much but he may now be suffering post polio muscle problems). From an upright position with little shoulder turn he is bound to swing ott even though he tries to swing down with his arms only. The answer, which you may be able to apply to your elderly pupils, is to swing like Allen Doyle (KZread). Very short, rotate lead arm on the bs. It works for me though I have to loosen my rh grip on the bs as my r wrist will not bend back. No-one teaches this swing but it is simple and consistent for older, more restricted golfers and produces a satisfying draw and reasonable distance.

Thank you. My natural bio mechanics make me come over the top and everyone acts like it’s such a problem

Hands over the top i can understand better as somehow with these great players mentioned the club head does shallow down to its plane of action where it effectively strike through the ball. Cheers 👍😃⛳️⛳️

OTT is the most natural golf swing. The modern swing gurus have ruined the game mainly by demonizing the phrase.

@tradertoursgolfdavidtrunga6886

2 жыл бұрын

I agree. Too many players are told to "drop the club to the inside" on the way down. This will likely produce a 30 yard hook or blocks that go right.

@Pooler29

9 ай бұрын

@@tradertoursgolfdavidtrunga6886 This what I fight all day long

Over the top to me always meant the hands and the club head moving above the plane from the top. And usually when someone like Defrancesco is analyzing these outward hand movements from the top, he usually places the most emphasis on the first maybe 7-12 inches hand movement from the top.

Do most golfers that use over the top have a strong grip?

Nice video.

@tradertoursgolfdavidtrunga6886

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you Billy!

Good Observation. When I help people out I tell them that golf is all about conserving momentum and delivering it to the golf ball. If you have to come over the top, that's perfectly fine. Just get fit for that tendency, and know what it entails: OTT: Fade bias, higher loft, more backspin Shallow: Draw bias, less loft, less backspin It's always a tradeoff in golf and it's important that people learning understand both positions. I tell them it's like how Earth orbits the Sun in a elliptical, not a circle.

@quantumpotential7639

11 ай бұрын

The earth is flat though.

so 'over the top' describes the shaft being too steep on the downswing, and not the hands dropping to the side at the beginning of the downswing? are the terms 'shallow the swing' and 'over the top' compatible or not possible together? it's all very confusing... in my swing, I do feel my upper body is too fast on the downswing, causing a slice. If I slow my upper down, I'll hook it.

Koepka still has the club on his right forearm coming down which is not over the top

You still taking swing video for analysis and video lesson?

How am I just figuring this out?! Changed my golf game

@tradertoursgolfdavidtrunga6886

2 жыл бұрын

I'm glad to know that your game is going well! I would speculate that you haven't seen this until now because when most people hear the words "over the top" they instinctively draw a negative conclusion. It's important to differentiate the path of the hands from the path of the club head. Thanks for watching! - David

This is going to fuck so many people up. The camera absolutely lies in its 2 dimensions & there are multiple factors happening in the golfing in 3D’s. The club is still shallowing, the body is just far more open at impact than at address when it was essentially facing the ball which shifts everything into a position that looks steep from the single 2D camera angle, as well as the hands being wider in the backswing the closer in the down which again creates a false reality from a 2D camera view. The club can shallow quite a bit but if the body opens more than the club shallows, it’s going to look OTT to the untrained eye on camera. Most people can’t help but come over the top no matter what they do, trying to come over the top is going to lead to terrible shots, casting & slicing. You obviously don’t want to drop way under the plane either, there’s a slot. Even good players who appear to come over the top slightly with a more inside path off the ball are still shallowing the club & generaly feeling like they drop inside, again the body’s movement just overpowers what the hands/arms are doing & feeling. To reiterate, how things appear on camera are very often the complete opposite from reality or what the player is feeling.

What would you say the swing path is for most of these players? Into out a degree or so? Or out to in a degree or so?

@tradertoursgolfdavidtrunga6886

Жыл бұрын

Good question: The variance on swing path on tour is low. I spectated a PGA tournament recently and the majority of players hit it straight with a very square approach. For the players who favored a draw, maybe 2 degrees in-to-out. For those who liked to fade it, maybe 2 degrees out-to-in. None of the pros seemed to curve the ball in either direction more than 5-10 yards off the tee. - David Trungale

@tomhowarth6697

Жыл бұрын

@@tradertoursgolfdavidtrunga6886 Thanks. That makes sense. I can’t seem to find any GC Quad or Trackman club data for current pros.

The big question is do these pros knew they were swinging OTT? or it happens because they are swinging to left field.

@tradertoursgolfdavidtrunga6886

2 жыл бұрын

It depends on the golfer. Some players, such as Tiger, made a conscious effort to swing OTT. Remember when he had occasional slumps in his career? In years like 2011 or 2015-2017, you can find footage of him doing exaggerated rehearsals to come OTT. The reason was because his club was stuck coming in-to-out. As Old Pro Golf mentioned, the magic move is "hands out" but the club shallows in transition.

handle is but clubhead is not over the top.

@tradertoursgolfdavidtrunga6886

Жыл бұрын

You are 100% correct!

Last I heard the most important thing is the CLUBHEAD not the HANDPATH & the CLUBHEAD does not come over the top with Koepka Tiger or Mr Hogan

I tried getting my hands deep and way behind me and it ended in a disaster. The club head broke off at impact and got flung into the windshield of a 2004 Dodge Mini Van and the ball wound up going way right where it took out a picture window of a nearbye condo. To make matters worse I wrenched out my L4, L5 which resulted in surgery. The over the top move is highly under rated.

@Pooler29

9 ай бұрын

Because you played on a flat earth golf course...must have thrown your balance off

You have to define 'OTT' if you want to have a constructive argument about it. If you think OTT is hand path appears to out in a 2D DTL video, then I suppose you can find a million swings that match that definition. Look at Viktor Hovland - hands route 'OTT', if you wanna call it that, but if you look at face on, he not only maintains his hand depth, the club from face on prospective, his hands move 'away' from the ball, left on the screen, by an order of magnitude. If you look at a 3d model, the end of the handle will be as far or farther from the ball in transition from the top, where it appears to get closer to the ball from the DLT prospective. Someone needs to 'invent' a cheaper model of a robo golf swing machine so every golfer can feel what the club does. FWIW I think it's more of a mental image of what do to rather than a physical limitation.

I think the golf world needs to re define the meaning “over the top” here you are stating over the top is when the club comes down over the backswing plane at the TOP of the downswing, the definition of over the top to the golf world is when the club shaft comes over the plane at p6, it’s funny cause to the golf world tiger and brooks DONT have a over the top swing. But you are stating they do according your definition.

@peterthethird

Жыл бұрын

I’m just trying to understand this over the top theory because naturally I have an over the top swing path, (baseball player) and I’ve been trying to correct it. I’ve been swinging under a stick to get more shallow which has been helping but I watch myself on video and I still look like I’m over the top kind of. I’m Trying to have the club head to be on a more in to out path to stop slicing.

I have an over the top but my club shaft steepens like 4 kzread.info/dash/bejne/Y4J5p86aoqetc6w.html would look to shallow the downswing but I'm guessing there's loads of stuff which can cause it like 'coming out of posture' like you said etc....great video thanks for sharing your knowledge.

But the club did not travel over the top

@tradertoursgolfdavidtrunga6886

Жыл бұрын

You are 100% correct: The hands move out, but the club head shallows in the opposite direction

This is why amateurs should not try to emulate what they see in pictures of Tour pros. What pros are doing or trying to do or eliminate (typically the left hand side of the course) is not a problem for most mid and high handicappers. OTT is simply the club head coming in too steep and from the outside, leading to slices for novices and pull hooks for intermediates who have better ball striking. Telling amateurs who don't have consistent ball striking to start the downswing by bringing their hands forward towards the ball (when they are typically throwing their hands at the ball anyway) is a recipe for consistently crap shots (Slices or Pull Hooks) and people just leaving the game in frustration. Also telling them to "shallow the shaft" when everything they're doing is moving incorrectly, hands and hips towards the ball is actually making matter worse and more difficult. For amateurs they should be focused on "shallowing the hands" on the downswing and letting the club head move through the ball. The problem with "shallowing the shaft" at least for novices is they have to get the club head back in front of them, and if they're moving towards the ball with their hands and their hips they have little chance to get the club head back to the ball consistently. What looks like a loop forward by the tour pros is not as important as the fact that all of them shallow the hands to get the club head back into position. Holding the club head off can create more lag (although that is debatable), but that is hardly a big concern for most folks with handicaps over 12.

HOTT- hands over the top. COTT- club over the top. My solution to remove the confusion. HOTT is replete with myriad examples of great players. COTT is a comedy

the good players flatten their down swings

@tradertoursgolfdavidtrunga6886

2 жыл бұрын

That is 100% correct! The hands move out, but most great players flatten the actual club in the down swing - David

This is NOT OTT. He has not crossed the plane line. Simply taking the club a little inside resulting in a small loop at the top does not constitute an OTT move which normally would produce a slice. This move you are seeing and proper mechanical movement. If you can throw a baseball or football properly, than you can also make this same swing. An OTT move should not be confused with what you are seeing here and many other players.

this is just like my swing

These don't look OTT to me. Their club path is inside out and on a plane that is barely above their hand path. This isn't the swing fault that 99% of golfers describe as OTT. If a swing instructor saw a swing like any of these, they would be giddy.

@DavidNums

Жыл бұрын

OTT to me means club head over, not hands. Here the hands move out, not over.

Getting shallow and firing the hips are the worst instructions, for any golfer.

Stop looking at positions they don't exist it's a reaction too lift only.

You guys watch too much TV.

Totally wrong, misinformation

@thegreenkeeper2537

2 жыл бұрын

No he’s bang on . Check cristo out .

@ppete417

2 жыл бұрын

Let’s see your swing! Where can we see it?

It's not a re-route.....the club became more laid off onto the plane......so all the player has to do is turn.