In my 10+ years of listening to the Unbelievable Podcast, this was the most partisan, biased, one sided dialogue I have listened to. What I felt should have been challenged more in the discussion was: - The biblical mandate to care for the refugee which was given to the people of Israel as a nation state (even though they were often at war with their neighbours) Leviticus 25 - The over-emphasis on gender ideology (which kept coming up) as the key political issue, and yet no mention of healthcare, justice, care for the poor (which comes out loud and clear from Jesus' teaching in Luke 4 and Matthew 25) - No mention of the climate crisis and our duty to care for God's creation in Genesis 1 as a key political issue - No mention of January 6th - No mention of Trump's recent conviction by a jury of his peers - Simplistic conclusions on which way to vote. ( I think Shane used the term 'no brainer' ?) - What particularly stuck in my throat (as an Englishman) was Shane's referencing Winston Churchill's smoking and drinking to give Donald Trump a pass on his behaviour. If Shane compares one of Britain's finest war time Prime Ministers with a convicted felon, narcissist, philanderer, tax avoider, liar (who prints bibles to raise money for his political cause) then I would expect more challenge from the interviewer, - I remember how Republican christians treated Bill Clinton when his behaviour fell well short of the office of President - and they came gunning for him with the line ' Character is everything'. Now the line is 'Character is not that important, it is policy that counts' As a general point - if you want to draw in people to a debate on Christians in politics, then can you please recognise that many Christians outside the US will have a very different view, and would expect a more balanced and two sided conversation - which is what the Unbelievable brand is famous for. This episode was a superficial, unchallenged diatribe - and came across as a party political broadcast for the Republican Party. I realise that social media is not the best forum for my critique, so I would be happy to discuss my analysis and reflections in more detail with the editorial team - if you are interested in the feedback. I am genuinely surprised you published this podcast on line.

@jeffnichols7964

15 күн бұрын

Incredibly thoughtful response! So right about absolutely no challenging going on here. I think that’s primarily because the host is fully on board (although it is obviously possible to personally agree with your guest and still push back for the sake of good journalism - as Justin did, and does - but this host wasn’t willing to do that).

@christyler6920

15 күн бұрын

I am an Australian Athiest but I came here to essentially write exactly what you did. No disagreement at all. This was not a "Conversation that mattered" as I have come to expect from Unbelievable in my also 10 years listening but a 50-minute MAGA advertisement and a disservice to Christians everywhere. The false equivalence between Trump and Churchill (who was a genuinely flawed human, but also a genuinely great leader) was particularly cloying. I can see how many Christains would be challenged by Joe Biden and some of his policies but the idea that you could be a Christian and not care about the character of the President of the United states is an example of the horrific mental hoops that the right-wing have to jump through in order to justify associating themselves with someone this diametrically opposed to the teachings of their Bible. Horrible.

@Efesus67

15 күн бұрын

As an atheist, I only watch this channel because I had found these Christians not so naive hand wavers, serious thinkers. But this episode proved to be the exception.

@Michelle-qq4vv

15 күн бұрын

Excellent points!

There’s no way Jesus would vote for Trump. NONE

@martin9410

18 күн бұрын

As a retired Christian pastor, I totally agree!

@martinploughboy988

7 күн бұрын

He wouldn't vote for his other main opponent either.

@martin9410

6 күн бұрын

@@martinploughboy988 I agree

I plea to our American brothers and sisters in Christ, remember you're a Christian first. Even if you vote Trump for pragmatic reasons, even if you dislike the other candidates, have the courage to evaluate him using your Christian values.

Holy cow has this channel fallen off the wagon.

Um. What is this? I have never missed Justin so much. I liked listening to the British perspective, now I get right wing American propaganda? Where is the opposing perspective? Why is this person even speaking about politics? No way this person has a Ph D or any type of expertise in history or politics. Truly disappointing! Felt like I was watching a Fox News prime time host with more token bible verses thrown in. For real, thoughtful discussions on Christian involvement in politics, check out Preston sprinkle’s podcast - Theology in the Raw. There used to be real scholarship and thoughtful discussions on this channel.

@Michelle-qq4vv

18 күн бұрын

I agree! Thank you for suggesting Theology in the Raw. I'll check it out!

@MegaGouch

16 күн бұрын

Agreed! There are 10,000 other places to get American style Christianity (and most of it sucks), Unbelievable offering a British perspective, or at least one separated from American culture war/politics is what makes it worth listening too.

@gareth2736

15 күн бұрын

It's fine to interview someone with extreme political/religious beliefs but there should be some push back and challenge if that's what that are going to, do. Very disappointing style of interview.

Sorry, but this guy clearly prefers Trump. This is a biased interview.

@chrisrecord5625

19 күн бұрын

Biblical activist who ignores the shameful character of a malignant narcissist-Trump

@gareth2736

18 күн бұрын

It's worse than that he either claims or comes very close to claiming (it was a tad ambiguous) that people who reach a different judgement to him about politics aren't Christians. Which based on the last election means he think white evangelicals by and large are "true Christians" and black evangelicals by and large aren't. Frankly I find that a massive red flag. Along with what seemed to be either exaggerations or a massive willingness to swallow propaganda uncritically around kindergartens and transgender/ pornography that frankly sounded unbelievable.

“God uses flawed individuals like David and Paul - who repent.” Who repent. Who repent Who repent. Who …

@gareth2736

18 күн бұрын

That was a flaw with his argument really wasn't it.....and once you are just into the realm of "which is the least bad of the two candidates" you have to start weighing up the different pluses and minuses and different people will reach different judgements on this. For example whether the moderate influence of a president on abortion rights for example outweighs risk to democracy of a leader who doesn't respect election results, whether the diminished mental faculties of the one candidate matter more than the lack of self-control and propensity to personal vendettas of the other etc.

@martinploughboy988

7 күн бұрын

Well actually, God uses the rulers of the day: The king’s heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever he will. (Proverbs 21:1)

@jeffnichols7964

6 күн бұрын

@@martinploughboy988 Of course he does. God does whatever He wants. (Psalm 115:3, a plethora of others). Noticed the guest added in that part about repenting though. I think he did so not as an absolute qualification, but because, deep down, he knows that’s one basic thing we look for in a leader - and anyone for that matter (especially a Christian for heaven’s sake) a willingness to turn away from sin toward the Lord. The first of Luther’s 95 theses: “When our Lord and Master Jesus Christ said ‘Repent,’ he intended that the entire life of believers should be repentance.”

Their presentation is very subtle, and you might miss it. But they're telling you to vote for Trump without just coming out and proclaiming it. Notice the priorities mentioned. But as a retired pastor, I also notice what isn't mentioned. Whether or not our nation started out as a Christian nation is immaterial. What does matter is voting or not voting as directed by our Christian conscience. One of the worldly pieces of wisdom that some believers illustrate is that the "end justifies the means." Better to violate our conscience and commit "minor sins and immoralities," in order to prevent "greater immoralities." This is wisdom of this world. God gives us the permission to not vote if we deem both candidates as evil and by voting for either, it would cause us to sin. I'm not saying this is true in your case, but it is in mine. We still practice Christian virtues and live a Christlike life without allowing the involvement in politics to force us into the corner of sinning. As a retired Christian pastor I've seen this played out many times. I think the biggest hypocrisy of many believers is in trashing Biden without having the courage to point out all the evil that Trump exhibits in his life, from the womanizing, to the lying, to the cheating, to the immoralities, to the demeaning of people and so on. Even when Trump disagreed with Jesus on the idea of loving and praying for one's enemies, hardly no believer spoke up. Because of this political behavior we've made a sham of Christianity and our witness. We've caused many in the world to believe that we don't really believe in what we preach and teach. We say one thing and in the next breath, praise the man who illustrates just the opposite of Christian behavior. Back in 2020, I had an elder come to me and ask me what to do. He said that some of his friends wanted him and his young daughter to go to a Trump stump speech, but he was afraid to expose his daughter to trump's cursing, slandering of people, and hateful speech. I told him, "first and foremost, protect you daughter from having to hear that garbage." Just this week at a church where Trump spoke, he mentioned the children in the front role so that maybe he shouldn't say "bullshit." And then the Christians chanted back "bullshit, bulllshit." This is what we've allowed this man to do to Christ's church. God forbid. Today believers have a veil over their eyes and can't see. But even the apostle Paul warned us that the antirchrist when he comes may fool many believers. Why do believers not want to observe the attitude of Jesus? During the first century, Tiberius Caesar was in charge. He did awful things to young male children, and put thousands on crosses. What did Christ say about it? Nothing that we know of. He was more focused in the kingdom that was not of this world than the one He was in. I think the present apostasy of the church has occurred with the marriage of politics and church. A truly unholy union that satan has used to his advantage.

@Michelle-qq4vv

18 күн бұрын

Wow. Yes, this hypocrisy (bashing Biden or any democrat) while being silent on all the bad things Trump does was a major factor in keeping me from returning to church and the Christian life for years. It still disgusts me, but I've found a church that puts Jesus before politics and am trying hard to disassociate Christianity in general from the nastiness I've seen in recent years. (I grew up evangelical, by the way.)

@martin9410

18 күн бұрын

@@Michelle-qq4vv I hear ya

I can't describe how angry this makes me.

IF you are going to air a MAGA advertisement at least bill it as such. This was not a "Conversation that mattered" it was not even a conversation, it was an agreement. As an Atheist I feel this was a disservice to Christians, misrepresenting their positions, their commitment to the text they hold sacred and their actual values which I'm pretty sure don't include "Any means are justified so long as we get the ends we desire".

@PremierUnbelievable

6 күн бұрын

If you look at the back catalogue of the show we have covered politics a fair bit and will continue to do so. We do not endorse the views of everyone on our show, but we do want to air the range of views out there. Check out Michael Wear with Roger Bolton for another perspective. Thanks for engaging with the show.

@onionbelly_

3 күн бұрын

​@@PremierUnbelievable As you can obviously tell by the feedback in the comment section, what viewers want is a discussion between two different perspectives, not two separate 1:1 interviews where the guests can just preach their views unchallenged. I understand that it's sometimes difficult to schedule two guests with different views. However, at the very least, Billy Hallowell, a conservative evangelical, could've interviewed Michael Wear, and Roger Bolton could've interviewed Shane Idleman so the show doesn't become a completely one-sided political sermon session. When Justin Brierley hosted the show, even if he agreed with the views of his guests, he did not hesitate to raise common objections and challenges to their views in order to have some semblance of balance. That's what's missing lately from this show, and that's why you're getting more negative feedback recently.

Shane not to worry about Trump's lack of character!: Matthew 7:15-16 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

@AS-sn5gf

19 күн бұрын

cope

@chrisrecord5625

18 күн бұрын

@@AS-sn5gf Ineffabke-Bibical?

“I’m looking for principle-centered leadership.” 🤔

Shane does not understand the Founding Fathers' religious views. Most were deists and you should look up what the Jefferson bible contained. Also, they were emphatic in their belief in the separation of Church and State as they so stated in the Constitution. The FFs had experienced troubling issues with the Anglican Church and the British Governmental structure.

@christyler6920

15 күн бұрын

I fear it's worse than that, he deliberately misrepresented the history in order to perpetuate his political agenda.

If, as a Christian, you are not denouncing Donald Trump, then you aren’t a Christian.

@davidjanbaz7728

19 күн бұрын

Same 4 Biden!!!

@Shake0615

19 күн бұрын

@@davidjanbaz7728 Biden is a Catholic. Try your partisanship elsewhere.

@martin9410

18 күн бұрын

@@davidjanbaz7728 Many Christians already denounce Biden, but they're afraid to do the same for Trump...that's the point!

@gareth2736

18 күн бұрын

I dislike Trump and think he is a danger to US democracy but I disagree with this..Christians who support him tend to think his threats to democracy are just hyperbole and rhetoric and not real while believing abortion etc is a more important issue. The test of being a Christian is being able to declare Jesus as Lord and having the Holy Spirit not which political figures you denounce. There are many genuine Christians who will vote Republican and many genuine Christians who will vote Democrat.

@Shake0615

18 күн бұрын

@@gareth2736 I agree with your last sentence 100%. However, the New Testament is filled with exhortations to avoid antichrists, wolves in sheep's clothing, and false leaders who use the name of Christ for personal gain. (Like selling a Bible to fund legal fees for a trial centered around adultery with a porn star, for example.) When one political party is run by such a person, the test of being a Christian is not about politics. It's about whether you take your religion seriously enough to override your politics. And if your politics win, then you forfeit the moral right to call yourself a Christian.

wouldnt Jesus focus on being a “president” for the kingdom of God instead of endorsing anyone for a specific nation? (edit: the title was clickbait)

@VACatholic

19 күн бұрын

Have you read the Bible?

@MakotoMajima30

19 күн бұрын

@@VACatholicYes but its not like im a scholar. I did write my question poorly so I rephrased it. Im just asking a genuine question based on the limiting factors from the videos title. Jesus preached about the kingdom of God and his response to politics seems generally like Matthew 22:21. Of course there is more scripture to give context but I dont think he would endorse anyone, and would instead become “president” in the way that leads the kingdom of God

@martin9410

18 күн бұрын

@@MakotoMajima30 True and the context of Matthew 22 is not really addressing politics. The Pharisees were trying to trap Jesus. So Jesus showed them their hypocrisy. Here's the carried an image of a man on a coin that they despise and they're trying to question Him? Jesus merely said, since Caesar's image is on the coin, let him have it, but 'render unto God what's His."

@MakotoMajima30

18 күн бұрын

⁠@@martin9410thats true I agree it has its specific context like you mentioned 👍🏼 I shouldnt be but I was being lazy not referencing more scripture but I used it as 1 verse to add to assertion that Jesus focused on the kingdom of God but im sure didnt completely ignore the kingdom of man

@MakotoMajima30

18 күн бұрын

@@martin9410actually I think that witticism is needed more in todays age with the media trying to trap us all the time

Please tell me this is a joke

Is this guy telling the truth or exaggerating/distorting to argue for his political point. I find it hard to believe that American kindergartens are overrun with pornography and transgender men reading stories.

@martin9410

18 күн бұрын

Yes, it's a bit embellished. But this illustrates the hidden agenda here.

@christyler6920

15 күн бұрын

If you check anything he said except for his name you will find errors....

@gareth2736

15 күн бұрын

@@christyler6920 the interviewer didn't do a very good job of challenging.

@aidanya1336

22 сағат бұрын

I live in the netherlands. Which is as secular/non-religious as it gets for western countries and i have worked in several different schools for the passed 15 years. I have never ever seen any of the things he describes. Not once or anything like it. The most i ever saw was a school with one special toilet area that was not gendered (for everyone). It had special high door stalls ect. and everyone used it.

Ah, the magical, idyllic 1950s. It’s always about “getting back to the ‘50s.”

@martin9410

18 күн бұрын

And it's funny because the Civil Rights act didn't pass till 1964. So do we want to go back to denying people certain freedom?

@whomever21

18 күн бұрын

Imagine pining out loud for a time of national apartheid

We so often hear that it's our responsibility to vote. But voting is a privilege, not a responsibility. And since it is a privilege, I have the freedom to not exercise it. Both candidates are morally unfit to serve. The fact that this is our choice is a warning that America has entered into judgment.

@aidanya1336

21 сағат бұрын

As a European i used to laugh at America and make lots of jokes about me watching a giant comedy skid Americans call politics. But i have since changed my mind. Now i really feel for most Americans who really are not represented by the current system. The only options are a senile old man and a lunatic.

This was very disappointing that Unbelievable? did not challenge any of the crazy things this man was saying. Why wouldn't you have someone who has knowledge of the subject challenge some of his claims?

The fact that this is a question only proves how few Christians actually read the Bible. I'm an atheist and I know Jesus wouldn't recognize these people as his own.

@PraiseYahforHeisHoly

19 күн бұрын

There are few followers of Christ. Being a Christian in title alone does not provide the desire changing power of God the world so desperately needs.

@49perfectss

19 күн бұрын

@@PraiseYahforHeisHoly I agree most people that call themselves Christians are actually followers of Paul. Pauleans is what I've heard them referred to as.

@49perfectss

19 күн бұрын

@@PraiseYahforHeisHoly though I disagree we need a god for the kind of change we need. Far as I can tell the further we get from religion the better the social outcomes tend to be.

@davidjanbaz7728

19 күн бұрын

​@49perfectss LOL 😂 as Jesus picked Paul!!! Paul's Epistles R even before the Gospels were written and the Leadership ( 2 Apostles- Peter and John + James ) of the Early Church approved Paul's Gospel .

@davidjanbaz7728

19 күн бұрын

​@@49perfectssyour dreaming: the society will go down hill as you throw off religion ( Christianity being the dominant religion of the USA ). It also gave us the freedom of Religion: something leftists siding with Islam will end.

I usually decide for whom I vote based on whose moral compass moral closely aligned with mine. No one has a moral compass any longer!

Disappointing lack of challenge from the interviewer on quite an extreme position. E.g. "all true Christians vote Republican" you could have asked about black evangelicals and whether he sees them as brothers in christ (for example).

@PremierUnbelievable

6 күн бұрын

Thanks for that helpful feedback.

@jeffnichols7964

5 күн бұрын

@@PremierUnbelievable With respect, “feedback” is something akin to, “hey, that shirt doesn’t look too hot with those trousers.” What this commenter (and many others) is offering is really more of a concise summary of all that went wrong here.

As a Christian, I absolutely cannot vote for Trump. However, I don’t support forcing the LGBT agenda on everyone. I wish there were a third candidate.

@jennifer97363

18 күн бұрын

What’s the LGBT agenda?

@martin9410

18 күн бұрын

I will not violate my conscience by voting for either.

My guess is that Jesus would not vote at all, but if He did vote, it most certainly would not be for Trump. 🙂

Damn, I liked this channel. Genuinly hurts to see it has turned into conservative propaganda disguised as genuine provocing conversations. You have become the exact thing that people tried to get away from by watching your old videos. Such a shame

@PremierUnbelievable

6 күн бұрын

We cover a range of perspectives and so take all the shows in the round. We are covering more on USA politics this year. For more classic apologetics content watch this week's show with two philosophers and we have a show coming up with Stephen Law and Jack Symes. You obviously missed the show we did with Michael Wear which presented a different perspective politically. Also check out The Big Conversation for classic Unbelievable? debate content. Thanks for your feedback.

I would like to answer the atheist. I don't think he is going to like a lot of what Jesus has to say. Jesus says if you think lustfully about a woman in your heart, you are committing adulatory. Dude, Jesus has high standards. He is not going to go easy on your abortion position, man!

You don’t have to believe in God to be a good human and have these realizations and make this world a better place. So the only difference is accessing this god like power they talk about that’s within us already, here on the earth, vs them believing in an outer power, thinking they are going to a place that nobody has been to, to be saved? Christians, being the largest religion in the world have had their time to show actual proof of what God can do, they’ve failed.

No

I am a long time listener to the Unbelievable podcast, and am also a Christian. I am very disappointed in the one-sided and very partisan discussion that was given here. Why wasn’t a different Christian perspective on politics and policy priorities presented? The charm and value of the “Unbelievable” podcast has largely been in it’s presentation of differing but intelligent and educated, views and perspectives on important topics, providing the audience with opportunity to think and develop informed opinions. But this discussion was nothing like that! It was blatantly partisan, with only mild pushback from the interviewer. Since there are Christians who are not in agreement with the guest, why was someone who represents that perspective not invited to be on the show to offer a different perspective on policy priorities? There are Christians who place a high value on Christ’s command to love our neighbors and treat them the way in which we would want to be treated. This means we have compassion for refugees, we care about the destruction of our environment and what that means for the quality of life for future generations. The guest made the claim that “most” of the immigrants coming into the US are in some way harmful., with no supporting evidence. “Unbelievable “!

@PremierUnbelievable

6 күн бұрын

Thanks for your feedback. Sometimes we have scheduling issues and cannot get the three people in our virtual studio at the same time. Rather than ditch the show - we decided to have Roger Bolton interview Michael Wear and do this show separately. it is a good counterbalance to this show. Rest assured we have not abandoned the format of Unbelievable? we just occasionally shake it up. Thanks for taking the time to write.

Excuse me, but wasn't Peter Kerridge's vision about a radio station for British Christians? So why do we constantly have presenters, guests & even subjects from the USA? It isn't as if the USA hasn't enough Christian stations, why do they have to take over the only UK one, to the exclusion of all that is British? By the way, Greenwich is pronounced grenidge in the UK

@PremierUnbelievable

6 күн бұрын

Thanks so much for your feedback. would push back and say we are not covering topics 'to the exclusion of all that is British'. Our hosts are Roger Bolton, Andy Kind and Ruth Jackson from UK and Billy Hallowell and Vince Vitale from USA. Ruth Jackson presents The CS Lewis Podcast and she is British. Dr. John Wyatt and Tim Wyatt are British with 'Matters of Life and Death'. NT Wright is British. That said over half our viewers are from USA on the KZread channel, so we are intentionally global in outlook. Please suggest guests and topics you would like to see on the show. This week we have British philosopher Prof. Philip Goff on. Thanks for listening!

@martinploughboy988

5 күн бұрын

@@PremierUnbelievable Roger Bolton is ex BBC & sounds it, which isn't a good thing as the BBC has been anti Christian for many years. In general, you seem to have had a preponderance of US guests, which is strange, given the considerable number of UK Christians there are. I don't think, for example, you've ever had the Christian historian Nick Needham on Unbelievable? You seem to like having philosophers on, but they rarely base their arguments on the Bible, which means they're mostly wrong.. I fail to see the point of the Lewis podcast, he was a layman & wasn't really very well educated biblically. Equally, Wright is regarded as heretical in many quarters as are Theos & Patheos. Your spectrum of contacts in the Christian world seem remarkably limited, do you only know people in the United Reformed, CoE & BU world, do you ever meet people who are Reformed? Actually, mentioning Nick Needham, it occurs to me that Church History could be a a really good source of programmes.

Thank you. Character matters. Clinton AND Trump. You can't pick and choose whose character matters more.

@davidjanbaz7728

19 күн бұрын

It's Biden NOT Clinton running, unless you know something!!!

@martin9410

18 күн бұрын

that's like someone saying if you only had two choices, either vote for Hitler or Stalin, who would you vote for? The lesser evil?' No, sometimes in order to vote our conscience, we don't vote in this case.

Unsubscribing. This channel has turned into a 💩 show.

@chrisrecord5625

19 күн бұрын

Shane is shameful.

@whomever21

18 күн бұрын

I miss Justin

@woohoo273

18 күн бұрын

@@whomever21 oh maybe that’s why it lost its way. What happened to Justin ?

@whomever21

18 күн бұрын

@@woohoo273 he left the show, but hasn't really explained why. Seeing what it's become, can't help but wonder if he saw this coming.

@woohoo273

18 күн бұрын

@@whomever21 thx for the update ! I guess that explains things. Justin had great interviews now it seems to be shorts and ridiculous topics lol. Anyway I’ve got better things to watch …. Carry on

Nope, not Trump!

Jesus wouldn't vote. Change my mind.

I don’t really care who’s president as long as I know who’s King! 👑

@49perfectss

19 күн бұрын

Charles

@martin9410

18 күн бұрын

good luck with that one. lol

@LeslieFlemons

18 күн бұрын

@@49perfectss nope

@49perfectss

18 күн бұрын

@@LeslieFlemons Henry?

@LeslieFlemons

18 күн бұрын

@@49perfectss nope

Your premose is blasphemuse at its core. To suggest Christ anywhere other than at the right hand of the Father is ignorant, rediculess and blasphemuse to contemplate.

@gareth2736

19 күн бұрын

Do you realise that Jesus being at the right-hand of God is a metaphor to tell us his authority not a map showing his geographical or spacial location.

@martin9410

18 күн бұрын

@@gareth2736 this isn't totally true. Even Stephen as he was being stoned, saw Jesus sitting at the right hand of the Father. There is nothing to disprove that.

@gareth2736

18 күн бұрын

@@martin9410 so you are saying that for thousands of years despite being given all authority Jesus hasn't been able to move? I would venture that a vision also shows spiritual realities - Jesus's authority and closeness to the Father rather than merely providing geographical/spatial information.

@martin9410

18 күн бұрын

@@gareth2736 Jesus is not a mere man like us. Of course he can be in many places.

@gareth2736

18 күн бұрын

@@martin9410 is the right hand of God a place though. Isn't it far more like the expression "right-hand man" which doesn't denote someone who is literally at the right hand of someone but has metaphorical meanings. I know the Hebrew means more with added connotations of honour and authority beyond the function of right-hand man but it feels similar. That's always been my understanding. As for whether Jesus can be in more than one place at once - he clearly can by his Spirit (which is the Holy Spirit) but what about his "spiritual body" because after being raised he is still human (as well as God), he is the "heavenly man" - can that body be in two places simultaneously or just one, is that human experience part of what Jesus embraced for ever by virtue of the incarnation. More thinking out loud and musing now rather than trying to argue about such a sacred topic where even angels would fear to tread.