When a “tourist” isn’t bad, they generally aren’t considered “tourists”

I believe that we can tell good tourists and bad tourists in culture, in the same way we can tell them apart in actual tourism. Is the tourist trying to learn and appreciate the culture they are exposed to? Good tourist. Is the tourist demanding that another culture kowtow and abase itself before their own perceptions and expectations? Bad tourist. And can I just point out that the fact these bad tourists don't get how they gentrify every culture they invade is depressing? They accuse everyone else of gentrification and a host of other 'bad buzzwords' (because, let's face it, screaming a buzzword is easier than coming up with an argument as to why something is bad), but when they do the same thing (and worse in many cases), it's 'different' and 'you just don't get it'.

"Not all tourist are bad" is how the infection started. You don't drink water directly from the river unless you want to get poisoned by some unknown parasite. You have to filter the water. And they way to gatekeep hobbies, add something to that hobby that would filter the tourist easily.

@rashira9610

Ай бұрын

You literally just proved the point with this statement though. You don;t drink the river water unadulterated, because there are probably brain eating amoebas in it and stuff. You FILTER out the bad so so you can take in the good. If Tourists as a collective is the river, you remove the bad tourists, and leave the good tourists. When you filter out the amoebas (bad tourists) you're left with safe water (good tourists)

@cdgonepotatoes4219

Ай бұрын

It's actually simpler than that. A good tourist simply enjoys the culture without going "why don't you do it like in my own country?" They visit a place because they want enjoy the location and maybe they're even looking to move, they don't go there with the intent of changing it without understanding why things are as they are, turing it into something else or worse, turning it into something that is not worth visiting.

@Xoruam

29 күн бұрын

@@cdgonepotatoes4219 I would simplify it even more: A good tourist goes, "I don't really like your thing all that much, but I do enjoy occasional bits from it, so I will just limit myself to those. Not everyone needs to be a fan of everything." A bad tourist goes, "I don't like your thing, and that's _your_ problem, not mine, so now you should change that thing to fit _my_ tastes, or else."

You wouldn't let someone illegally enter your country, considering you don't know their intentions or history, so why would you let tourists into your hobby? If you want to in, you have to conform to the rules and culture.

@MGUM_

Ай бұрын

I wouldn't, the government thought . . .

BRIDGE mention! Armchair and Kirsche collab when?

Tourists is the term that defines the negative of the new arrivals in a space. A "good tourist" is not called a tourist, he is called a newbie or is already considered a honorary member of the community/culture. Saying that a newcomer entering should have no judgement is false, the newcomer must be either open minded or already have values that already fits in the community.

@purebaldness

Ай бұрын

The guest creators had already addressed your points in their streams Edit: Creator*

@justanothergmailaccount1353

Ай бұрын

I think the term tourist is actually pretty accurate. An example would be someone like me who isn’t actively or deeply involved in vtuber fandom but finds enjoyment while on the outer edges of it. I don’t actively watch all that many vtuber live streams, and generally have a group of people I think well of even though I’m an active viewer. So I can’t sit there and say I’m a fan or old guards types or converts to the fandom since I particularly have a no desire to leave the outer edge. So what word besides tourist would be a good descriptor?

I'd rather bring up the fact that journalism is an activity, not a credential, and they suck at it.

Great power point

There's a good old mspaint comic which clearly shows what hapoens when failed gatekeeping happens which is why I believe in gatekeeping to an extent however I do believe a quick and swift purge should be done as soon as a harmful person is detected trying to change this for profit or because they clearly don't like it and are trying to change things because they don't like it and instead of starting their own thing they are trying to just hijacking it.

@andrewgreeb916

25 күн бұрын

Some communities would benefit greatly if they rejected and expelled grifters. I bet half the lgbtq haters would stop if the lgbtq would reject grifters, and get rid of the current grifters.

Tourist is a pejorative term enough so that I think to differentiate between them should be clearer. Just use a different word, such as "traveller". It sounds nicer and already is more positive in the mind as a standalone word.

@DinnerForkTongue

Ай бұрын

I'd rather say "newcomer". It's more inviting.

@kagon01

Ай бұрын

I prefer to call them foreigners or outsiders.

@bobbertbobberson6725

Ай бұрын

Better term than the classic term of "newfriend" (hint: the second part wasn't actually "friend")

@justanothergmailaccount1353

Ай бұрын

Since it really just means that someone is an outsider and not deeply involved in the community, while it can be a pejorative, it is largely just a statement of position. I am a tourist and I will probably never really leave the periphery of vtuber viewer.

@ZeroXSEED

Ай бұрын

@@bobbertbobberson6725 Newfriend are at least inclusive and welcoming (crassly so) But tourist? "You can come, but you can't stay" Big words from L2D stream worshipping newbies if you ask me.

Where to draw gatekeeping? Who are the original fans? Who are you to judge? People who want to gatekeep need to answer these questions first before raising their war banner. Because I've seen the most deranged gatekeepers are often the first fandom invaders, who dominated the culture with superior numbers and decide it's their clay now. Case in point: the entire L2D 'real person' streaming vs 3D kayfabe skit Also: People harassing flesh creators who wanted to use L2D avatar. Never embrace hypocrisy.

@necrosteel5013

Ай бұрын

I see you understood it quite well. At first I thought you were questioning the premise of gatekeeping itself, as I read further it because clear your highlighting the actual context that should be considered by a fandom.

People should never approach any community with an open mind, keep your values steadfast your community should fit you.

@IZZYCHAN13

Ай бұрын

We're talking about hobbies surrounding fiction, not sociopolitical views that have an impact on reality

@ThatBugBehindYou

Ай бұрын

@@IZZYCHAN13 Spoken like someone who's never entered an anime community before, that or someone who's pretending like these places don't become weird fast. So are you ignorant or dishonest?

@battlesheep2552

Ай бұрын

If your "values" are going to cause problems then we don't want you.

@HarrysDogmalaysia

Ай бұрын

Open mind to a certain extent, respect it. And when it's does not click with you, just leave. Also if you don't have an open mind, a way WILL start regardless

@AndrewChumKaser

29 күн бұрын

The term you're looking for is "in good faith." Take a community for what it is, not expecting to hate or admonish it (or the opposite of unconditionally admire it either.) you have enough good sense to leave a community yourself if it doesn't mesh well with you.

The problem with this is that all of the people screaming about gatekeeping vtubing are tourists themselves that invaded the fandom and pushed out the OG fans that just liked watching weird japanese anime larp videos with a variety show like theme and made it into a CUTE GIRLS DOING CUTE THINGS autism simulator that it is today. Japan has that niche but also a ton of other niches in vtubing while Hololive EN brought in a new fanbase that tries and force the entire industry to confirm to the cute girl thing, to the point of sperging out over anime men and corpos that don't pretend to be uwu idols.

@ahoyforsenchou7288

Ай бұрын

Japan chose cute girls doing cute things over 15 years ago. You're just gonna have to deal with that, chief.

@EndoftheBeginning17

29 күн бұрын

Oh don't worry about that. Vshojo has gremlins, Phase has sad girls, and Idol has John VTuber, plus others. Rin did a short about the fact that the general niche (Idol type) is saturated. Hololive itself is going to ahve to eventually face that one someday. I think they could do another Gen or Two in EN as "Idols" but they're going have to do a reality check that there are literally 10,000's of other women trying to either be Lewdtubers, or Idols and very little inbetween, unless you're looking at someone like FalseEyeD - a newsTuber (and it's relate cousin the dramaTuber)

I use hobbyist for casual participants- including me. Tourist implies someone briefly moving through, just there to check it out. I'm a hobby gamer; I am passionate about a handful of games, I can devote several hours to them at a time with breaks inbetween- sometimes long breaks. I've been playing games over 40 years so I'm not a newbie or a tourist, and I don't play all the time so not considered a gamer. My favorite games are mostly single player rpg and I enjoy them tremendously. And I come from a position where you had an Atari or Nintendo for the whole family, or maybe 1 or 2 families on the block had one, so people shared and waited turns and all that. So even today, I'm happy to hang out while my husband or my friend is playing a game- whether or not I'm into that game. Other people have different experiences, that's mine. Also, my family and friends are all quite different people. My immediate family and I all have very different tastes in music; though there is some overlap. We all enjoy a lot of the same foods but each of us likes stuff the rest can't stand. It's basic stuff yes, but that is where we learn it's normal and natural to not all dig the same things but we don't hate each other over it. It's shocking the number of people who think our societies must be 100% alike, enjoy all the same things and share the same viewpoints or it's "bad bad bad, expire and away with you!!" How did that thinking become the norm? And now we have professionals discussing slides illustrating what should be common sense and true tolerance.