Good Tourist: Knows when to leave and go elsewhere -- Bad Tourist: Stays when they don't belong just to be a 'Karen'

@corrinflakes9659

Ай бұрын

Best tourist: wants to learn more about a culture to ascend from being a tourist. Like as an example: as a non-kaiju fan up until recently, I watched Godzilla Minus One recently, I can be considered a tourist despite that being absolute cinema, but I want to watch more, even engage in the goofier media (not just serious cinema) like the one where Godzilla is a parent. Though I am hesitant on Monsterverse as I’ve been so burnt out on MCU and want to watch things that don’t feel like the MCU.

Hopefully this will help people not fall for obvious ragebaits from bad actors in different entertainment industries more

No cap, my brother saw the stream an said "gatekeeping is always trash" and then proceeded to talk about the new hoyo games controversy about the fan service. I just told him thats why you need gatekeeping in your hobby an he goes "...huh..." I think he's finally beginning to believe

@cymes82

Ай бұрын

Didn't HoYo re-design a couple of existing characters to show less flesh ? ( f.e. Rosaria). Plus , I'm NEVER again supporting a company that doesn't honour their sponsorship-contracts (parrot-chan really got a raw deal with his HSR promotion).

@jacobsmith8377

Ай бұрын

Gatekeeping is keeping karens out of something they have 0 involvement in, they just feel they have the moral authority to shit on it because someone else enjoys it

@Blazuchan

Ай бұрын

well, at least he's enlighten now

@fckihate69jokes

Ай бұрын

nah he isnt.

@NothingXemnas

Ай бұрын

​@@cymes82 Yes, because of Chinese censorship enforcement, but Hoyoverse is powerful enough to be on the lighter side of their government (though their main studios and business buildings are in Singapore, their main headquarters are still in mainland China).

Doki and Mint commentating on a WWE match... Let that sink in. Dokus WrestleTuber event was a riot. Highly entertaining. A format like this going mainstream would collapse reality as we know it.

@FrarmerFrank

Ай бұрын

Doki was contacted by somebody in WWE and she was trying to convince them to participate next year 😹

Shout out the the guy who made "the girl in the middle has literally a fish up her a**" comment. It was very funny , even for someone like me, who enjoys female Vtubers content on the regular.

@Alexander-dg8sh

Ай бұрын

Actually, when I was in my tourist days, gura's tail seemed rather uncanny to me and I wanted to convince myself it was just a part of her cloak. The concept of an antropomorphic shark girl was somewhat difficult to embrace. When I started to appreciate VTubers' content though, it stopped being an issue.

Phase is the perfect level of unhinged to commentate on a sport like Hockey or UFC. It would be hilarious if Pippa starts screaming over finishers while Tenma oogles all the muscular wrestlers.

I missed this stream, very sad. it should be noted 1) Dodgers game happened right after Anime Expo, so that was easy to pull AX fans to Dodgers 2) Dodgers Stadium is less than 6 miles away from the LA Convention Center (So while the Collab helped Dodgers attendance, I'd argue it was like a debut buff with a few things really helping in their favor, not an organic 49000 seats sold just from Hololive) 3) The merch line persisted from the beginning of the game to the end of the game. There were literally people who stood in line the whole time and never even went to their seat.

@FrarmerFrank

Ай бұрын

If there is no line they would have sent employees to walk the stadium to sell their wares Convention goers grifting into Stadium culture 😹

@yeshevishman

Ай бұрын

​​@@FrarmerFrank"Stadium culture" is not the issue here. It's how they run their business! Here, they CHANGED the business model by marketing to a different audience. You cannot blame people for being in a different marketing demographic, getting target marketed, and showing up BASED on that demographic! That's entirely on the stadium - not the Hololive fans!

@aquarake.

Ай бұрын

yeah I dint think he meant anything serious by "stadium culture"

Definitely check out Armcha1r's videos on the Selen Tatsuki termination and the smear campaing Zaion/Sayu endured. He does a really great job breaking things down from a media perspective and articulating why what Niji did to those two was not only unethical but borderline stupid. Armcha1r holds the distinction of being probably the only streamer that *consistently* holds my interest, being able to articulate his points in a really clear and consise manner and being able to notice things that most of us miss. Even, his other live "yapping" streams are never boring. (though I do prefer his edited stuff, seriously, his editing skills are *FIRE* ). Just on the merit of the points he makes, this guy is seriously underappreciated. You should definitely invite this guy again on your channel to discuss other topics. His voice and perspective, like yours, are something that is sorely needed in this space.

@sbatou87

Ай бұрын

I believe LM already talked about Selen's termination.

@l3nsman

Ай бұрын

@@sbatou87 I know he did. In fact, Armcha1r even mentioned LM in *both* his videos. Armcha1r doesn't deal with the legal aspect of things like LM, he deals with the PR/Communication side of things. And in that aspect Armcha1r did an incredible job, completely dismantling Niji's actions from a PR perspective, cutting through the bullshit and exposing them for what they actually were: *unethical smear campaigns.* Even if LM already covered the Selen and Sayu terminations, it's still worth watching Armcha1r's videos on the matter, because he sees things other people don't see and is really good at getting his points across. LM and Armcha1r are incredibly educational in their respective different fields is all I am saying. Plus Armcha1r's editing, especially in the Sayu video is amazing.

gate keeping is like enforcing one's boundaries. Its like building a wall. Its not that you wont let people across, but they have to first prove they wont be hostile to you.

Armcha1r is honestly the perfect example of somebody made for documentaries, I realy enjoy his lectures on PR, especialy those small details, that regular spectator would likely miss. Gives one a different perspective on the whole thing, since PR usualy has pretty bad reputation in general.

3:17 Thank for giving me an opportunity for a little shoutout moment. The long story short is that I live in a location where Amazon doesn't recognise my banks, and will only send physical cheques. The cheques never, ever, ever arrived. Even though I couldn't sit through the video live, this is really really good subject. It can apply for anything. I've seen how fandoms become a complete frenzy from both extremes of the isle.

4:55 the chair arrive.

43:33 I mean yes but one needs to distinguish between the good tourist and the bad therefore I refer to good tourists as normies and bad ones as tourists

Yo that's my favourite chair vtuber right there! 😫😳

Gatekeeping is important. joining any community should have standards, and rites of passage. exclusion is what makes shared experiences and shared interests special, because the shared thing is unique to your group.

The whole lolicon debate is basically the same reasons furries like furry but almost inversed. Furries like furry for their anthropomorphic traits. Lolicons like loli for their distinctly anime moe traits. Morally, neither art forms deserve scrutiny. And NSFW will always exist of both, so just let people enjoy what they enjoy in their privacy or circles. It hurts literally no one. Japan has some of the lowest crime rates in the world, and they invented lolicon.

The whole point of gate keeping is do triage and keep the bad tourists out while happily guiding the good tourists in. Edit: I think the issue was people on twitter putting [VTUBER] in their bio and don't ever create any content and then trying to speak on behafe of all VTUBERS.

you should always cater to fans and be receptive to good tourists

48:02 the iconic I'm gonna blank a Walmart one is perfect

This stream contains so much gatekeeping I didn't even catch it live xD I have to change my sleeping schedule so I can catch these streams live again.

Bad actors will do anything to invalidate the opinion of people they disagree with and elevate themselves. Usually, their weakest spot is their ego. Hit them there and it will be an instant crit.

The thing about the shield is that whenever you try to attack the issues behind it, they complain that your attacking the shield.

When I first heard people in the anime/vtuber space encourage gatekeeping, I flinched a little, but I’ve come to learn that gatekeeping regarding this isn’t quite the same thing as where I come from, let me explain a bit: In music (specifically metal/hardcore), gatekeeping is just completely elitist cringe, in the sense that instead of welcoming new people to the community, they just immediately attack their taste in music (people usually find metal via mainstream stuff (and it’s fine to keep enjoying it, you’re entitled to your own taste)). New metal fans aren’t there to change or condemn the media we consume, they are pretty much 100% as you’d say ”good tourists” and should be welcomed and shown the wide range of stuff the genre has to offer, instead of immediately being pushed away because what they currently listen to isn’t ”good enough” or ”real metal”. So yeah, completely different to the shit that twitter-freak westerners are doing (or trying to do) to vtubers and anime. I completely understand that this should be gatekept in the sense that’s being discussed here. At first I just imagined it meant along the lines of ”oh you’ve only watched Naruto? Piss off, you’re not a real anime fan” you know? My mind just adapted whatever gatekeeping means regarding music.

@yeshevishman

Ай бұрын

This is a GREAT point that you make! The distinction DOES need to be made, and I think the VTubing community, for the most part, does a pretty good job at MAKING this distinction! There is a REASON we love when people "fall down the rabbit hole"! We love seeing people fall in love with this weird and wacky art form and that's the OPPOSITE of what you describe! At the same time, when you have these people who don't come to learn, but come with the attitude of "we need to take it over and get rid of the weirdos", they are clearly NOT looking for that experience. If they want to start a subculture, that's their own business...but they're NOT here to enjoy the art form: they're here to take advantage of it!

Very educational

Hello fellow men, do you guys remember the K-pop wave in the 2000? Yea....better gatekeep hard and don't become a stan.

the loli debate at its core is just outsiders self reporting their inability to separate cartoons from reality

@yeshevishman

Ай бұрын

I think that this is often the case, but there's a second layer: actual victims of s*xu@l abuse getting pulled in by those people! When that happens, people often feel like they have no allies whatsoever and are extremely vulnerable. Imagine that happening and then someone saying "the main way you can stop this from happening to others is by stopping this type of media consumption!" It makes SOME logical sense (although if you look at the facts, they don't even correlate much less indicate any form of causation...) and it's easy to do... instead of admitting that it's the people who objectify REAL women who are the problem!

I’d like to see Armchair release these graphics (with updates from the stream commentary) so that people in lots of fandoms have these to refer to.

1:27:43 This segment reminds me of a Bill Burr sketch about There is no reason to hit a woman. In the sketch near the end he goes in to describing how women fight and what they do when they are wrong (all in gest obviously, but it is a good sketch), baiting the partner into calling them the C bomb.

Easy kick anyone from servers groups who complain about any aspect of the genra after they try to get it banned or changed. Then make fun of them

@FrarmerFrank

Ай бұрын

Well Game Journalists and their sites are going down as they refuse to give actual game reviews or at least make game guides Shit games like Suicide Squad crashed and burn while Hogwarts Legacy broke a Billion on preorder anc it was a year before honest review(cause took reviewer that long to finish the game) VAs and subtitle writers that won't do their job properly for Anime and Video games are being replaced by in house assisted A.I. Dokibird lowkey beefed up security around thd Hyte booth which also benifited vSohjo Booth and Nijisanji Area where Goku and Vegeeta were fighting with the the passive show of force for any would be rando twitter nuts that was taking sides on twitter coming to bother the actual fans of the 3 Booths ( Everything seems properly gate kept to me

*Max0r* getting namedropped on *Legal Mindset* channel wasn't something I expected , since his content is diametrically different from that of V-Tubers ( he still had both *Pipkin Pippa* and *Ironmouse* doing voicework in one of his *Genshin Impact* videos).

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. They have different bins.

i want to send files to andrew esquire but you wont let me. i have a lovely clip of pippa saying fuck you to me specifically and i have an instrumental version of pippa the ripper that Andrew could use when he does his 100k feet/karaoke stream

Thing is about getting inter-Cover corp sponsorships with MLB teams, not every Hololive member enjoys baseball, and that is what helped Gura have good synergy is she was already a baseball enjoyer. Fauna for example dislikes baseball, I don’t think she would be associated with any MLB team. HOWEVER, we could incorporate teams beyond baseball itself too, like I’m just saying, a lot of non-Austrians might start rooting for Team Austria in FIFA if they had a collab with Kiara.

1:49:00 im a lil late but yeah Rima's video on Mano Aloe's situation is BY FAR the most accurate one. LOTS of people made videos on it but were really bad, only Rima's is worth watching. It's even got the stamp of approval from the (Sane members of her) Support community (was gonna say "fanbase" but it's actually full blown Support lmao).

3:10 breatcookiebox would also be an interesting convo in terms of rigging

Too bad, gatekeepers. I’m the key master.

52:35 somewhat agree with the Supa but I disagree as the bad tourist tend to screech and for some reason companies fold to said screeching

Before watching this, the worst thing one can do to one's hobby is to not properly gatekeep your hobby. This doesn't mean you should be mean to people, it does mean that you should not hide the extreme things from them. I purposefully chose fanservicy shows when someone is interested in anime. Either scare them or get them accustomed and used to what they can expect.

1. The thing with Mano Aloe, was that she talked about doing the deed on her pl account before Joining Hololive, which isn't deemed idol like, which led to harassment. 2. You talked about everybody wanting a fandom to grow / that it needs to grow to stay alive and to support the streamer. I feel like that stagnation/ a stable point with not much growth should be fine to. Because I personally don't want to get the fandoms I am in to get too big or bigger at a cost in community feeling.

@yeshevishman

Ай бұрын

Between stagnation and lack of growth is the place BOTH you and LM are aiming for. YES, we don't want to lose community, but we ALSO want a community to NOT disappear over time. I see this with MANY other communities I've been a part of in the past: A lack of new blood causes creators to become lax and they slowly stop creating. VTubing is having a "moment" right now, where more people are aware of it, but it has ALWAYS been gaining new people who innovate within the space in their own ways and have created spaces where more people feel ok crossing over into the "mainstream" part of it, as well as "mainstream" fans becoming more ok with all he niches. It shifts and changes, and THAT is what keeps it alive. It doesn't HAVE to be a binary! We can keep the bad people out without stagnating and losing the good stuff new people bring in!

@MainGoldDragon

29 күн бұрын

1. Sorry but no that's the least of the reasons why. Also it's not entirely accurate to say that HL fans chased her out. It's more complicated than that.

@yeshevishman

29 күн бұрын

@@MainGoldDragon Actually, it's not just "more complicated" it's just DIFFERENT. She worked for a relatively new agency that PURPOSELY created a specific image (which since then, has DEFINITELY morphed), and the termination was due to the COMPANY'S perceived image. It's pretty simple when you see it in those terms.

@MainGoldDragon

29 күн бұрын

@@yeshevishman that is not accurate in the slightest LMAO what are you on about? this is how rrats spread

@yeshevishman

29 күн бұрын

@@MainGoldDragon Look, the REASON rrats spread is because people present misinformation, and MAYBE I have misinformation. I'm NOT above being told I'm wrong, I just like to be corrected and have conversations. Everything I said was based on public records, isn't some WILD behind the scenes stuff, and is the most basic we can extrapolate from the situation. A rrat is something with little ACTUAL proof(and sometimes is later proven to BE correct or incorrect), but this is so basic. Please inform me of WHAT I said that is incorrect?

51:08 I don't necessarily agree with this doxing more neutral can be negative but generally would be but can be positive is fringe cases

games workshop should reach out to matara and projeckt melody

1:53:44 she’s not beating the pet play allegations

I disagree. There are no "good" or "bad" tourists. All the tourists are bad. If they were actually good, they're no longer tourists. Normies who like anime who eventually become fans? I don't consider them a tourist at any stage of their transition.

@Soapy-chan

22 күн бұрын

indeey, we all were normies at one point. What I did before I watched the depraved stuff I watch now was just not watching it. Sure I talked with friends about it and complained about what I didn't like, but that's just talking about media. I never went crazy and yelled at people for liking stuff.

38:15 Have you watched The Acolyte, though? The internet noise is negative, but the show itself has been great. I don't see "Reylo" content in it at all, and I really disliked the sequels. If we are talking about tourism... perhaps we should think a bit more about how we are using the term operationally.

there is one thing id say needs to be addressed because the "Old guard" and "activists" is N kind misrepresented and well missing key information as old gaurds literally have doxed tubers for being in relations and so the wold guard and activists No offense needs to be interchangeable as there literal old guarders who stalked vtubers out of companies and indies there is a reason so many companies pop up and and well sink so it is a bit misleading to say that old Guard are always good tourists when some of them to protect their Oshi or the idea of their oshi s company common example niji sanji {pretty public case and there are several others based in different countries too {some of these companies and indies who it took the good tourists "activists" to help prevent some vtubers from ending their lives {figuratively and literally } and no im not saying everyone gets a happy ending or a sad one to story but i am saying to prevent bad tourism and misinformed tourism there are places and parts that have been missed and or ignored esp the part about ogs and old guards Not acting entitled or bad { they are some have even showed up and broken into vtubers houses or stopped them on plane trips etc hence why alot of them Dont like or want you shipping{coupling} them with other male tubers or people it has caused problems

@purebaldness

Ай бұрын

Holy sentence, Batman! Also, bare in mind this slideshow isn't specific to vtubing.

When you argue gatekeeping is good, the real question is where does it start? Arbitarily drawing lines will always make you embarrassed at being called out. I could easily say "We should gatekeep VTubing to 3D skit just like the old days of four emperors" then you have L2D fans of livestreaming cry foul. Gatekeeping does not work, and when it works it usually in a bad way.

It feels like you are just supporting the dissolution of the terms with this stream. Supporting their tactics that they already spoof from 1984. Tourists are suppose to be, by definition, there cause it is popular. While gatekeepers are those who hold the main entrance into a hobby. Tourists NEED to be gatekept that way you can tell who really want to get into a hobby, and are better able to discern the motives of each individual. Some may evolve into newbie fans (and thats the term we should use), meanwhile those who the gate is for can rightfully be refered to as tourists. If we dillute the terms, then that just makes the basic gatekeeping harder. I love ya man, but this stream really missed the mark.

@SrMissileMonkey

Ай бұрын

Exact terminology can be worked out but I think the general concept was conveyed well, given you understood what they meant. "Newbie fans" is correct but for the purpose of explanation and reference "good and bad tourists" works too.

@FrarmerFrank

Ай бұрын

Irony here is a bunch of Weebs used to make shitposts of talking about anime,playing games, lip syncing songs,or singing parodies,or doing skits often voice overseas with Anime Avatars via P2P and Bullitin boards 20 years before "Upstart" 88 hijacked the Format for Ad revenue and the VA dubbed the Format "vTubing" 17 years after Raven Manor,Nyanners,and Senzawa, 11 years after thd Den of Tools Bear(went fleshtuber few years ago), 5 years after Ami Yamamoto (who still shitpost vLogs) and 2 years after Ironmouse(yes Ironmouse predates Kizuna A.I. by 2 years) with Nijisanji,then VOMS(Pikamee),and Hololive being the notable grifters into what was a western Weeb Hobby 😏 Ironic they got/had OG from all Eras in vSohjo and landed a notable OG in Advent who even semi carelessly mentioned her fans she been sharing stories with for years have grandkids 😹(the other "not Nyanners" isnt Gura but might have done art for Nyanners,Silvervale as well as custom music...her main work,she is on medical semi-hiatius as a vTuber and almost never streams as her main vTuber(Senzawa got mothballed 7/20,Main model redebut on Twitch 7/21)

@purebaldness

Ай бұрын

I think simply presenting gatekeeping as generally a good thing, warrants praise, seeing as the term mostly has negative connotations. Seems a bit extreme to suggest the stream was a failure due to semantics?

@nathanperquin9910

Ай бұрын

@@purebaldness gatekeeping is needed, you effectively only want people there WHO want to be there, not just fairweather fellows but who can take a little social scorn for their like of it without folding or instantly demanding it be made more mainstream acceptable, something should be allowed to be extremely niche by design

@purebaldness

Ай бұрын

@@nathanperquin9910 I totally agree. I'm not speaking for myself when I say that gatekeeping, as a term, largely has negative connotations.

So which member/s would you like to be partnered with the Mets