Privateer Press couldn't be worse at marketing and PR. But Warmachine MKIV is so good right now. I have been having a blast playing my Cygnar Storm Legion and getting my Brineblood Marauders painted up.

I personally appreciated the Mk4 announcement from PP. I thought it did a good job of being realistic and explaining their thought process behind Mk4 (which is much more like a re-do of the whole game than a new version of an ongoing game). It was nice to see an explanatory piece rather than an overblown hype article.

@kgoblin5084

Жыл бұрын

Honesty in press releases has it's own charm... but I think Discourse is right that they ALSO need to build some level of excitement for their product if they want people to be interested. Someone else commented that the people who really seem jazzed about MK4 are the established WM player base, which is whom the press release seems to be speaking to. When it should have been speaking to those folks AND new players.

@theworldsays4264

Жыл бұрын

@@kgoblin5084 do new players into the hobby know there are any other games than 40k?

@Direwoof

11 ай бұрын

Ye i been playing teh game and it's fun, were over here having a blast while the ppl over there playing 40k 10th ed are just raging about it, it's crazy how people would prefer to play something that makes them that angry instead of a game that is fun.

I swear you're the funniest person covering the hobby. You're the Lewis Black of miniature wargaming.

@ravencros

Жыл бұрын

Aye comrade.

@jasper_the_cat_dood

Жыл бұрын

It's the hand gestures haha

@justinavery8664

Жыл бұрын

Yesss!!

@rangda_prime

Жыл бұрын

Seconded. That opening... I'm dead!

@GT-legendary

Жыл бұрын

i don't know who lewis black is but i agree i dont even indulge in the hobby period. just like her content

The tone of Privateer Press' statement was because at the beginning of Warmachine, MK1, they made a promise to gamers that they would never make the miniatures obsolete, as opposed to Games Workshop, in this new addition, they are basically doing that for competitive play. That is why they were apologetic, it was directed to long time players not new players. They have also gone through a lot of trouble to support all the old miniatures with the new rules. To old school Warmachine players it was the announcement we needed to hear; it was not directed to potential Games Workshop converts; they may need to attract those players in the future but first they needed to focus on the needs of their fans. So I for one, will give them another go and support the MKIV.

@LameMovieCo

Жыл бұрын

Another reason for the tone is that the Warmachine community is known to flip their shit whenever an edition change happens, even when MKII (arguably the best incarnation of the game) came out there were still people throwing hissy fits in the forums and this was just a pre-emptive cushioning of the blow.

@kikkerbekenkampschool4994

Жыл бұрын

@@LameMovieCo I think MK3 in the end was a lot better than MK2 was. But I get why this move to a smaller game in MK4 is necessary. I just hope they will get distribution going again so it's available everywhere. Creating multiple print locations around the world will hopefully help with this.

One of the things I loved about Privateer Press back in the day was the tie-ins between their RPG and the miniatures game. This was the height of 3rd edition D&D, but I loved the idea of both games being in the same world.

The idea behind 3d printing at their main production source for minis is because they determined that it is cheaper for them to 3d print the minis locally (as in in the country they are to be sold in) rather than having to ship them out. There are services that 3d print stuff for people without a 3d printer and I think they are either outsourcing it or are setting up a dedicated space for it.

This makes me sad. How right you are. I really want Warmachine to succeed, but there are so many red flags.

@TheGrunaldi

Жыл бұрын

I think that's the right mind set, be hopeful but don't ignore problems .

If only there was a way to cast a silicon mould from a 3d printed master, and then use that to cast polyurethane resin miniatures. I bet that kind of tech would scale much better, if only the materials were freely available on the internet and the techniques were well documented.

@DasBilligeAlien

Жыл бұрын

It scales up much less than one would think. IT depends a lot on you printer farm setup. Resin modls have to be redone fairly often and if you do bigger amounts you need ltos of storage space and maintanance of the modl making process. In scalability i would even say that 3d printing and silicon modls are on evne footing. It larlgly depends on how many different SKUs you have. THe fewer units type the better silicon modls are. When you have hundreds or even thousands of models in your catalouge 3D rinting becomes much, much more efficient.

My excitement lasted until I saw the prices of the new starter / expansion prices.

@rayslover8526

Жыл бұрын

It's actually reasonable when you break down the model cost.

@malakimphoros2164

Жыл бұрын

@@rayslover8526 No, you're just used to atrocious GW prices.

@ChrisKCook

Жыл бұрын

@@malakimphoros2164 or a Warmachine fanboy. They moan about GW prices but pay PP the same sort of prices.

@Kasandra_

Жыл бұрын

@@rayslover8526 10$ per model in a STARTER SET is reasonable? you're on drugs. The smallest 40k starter is literally a fifth of that at MSRP (which in GW's case is usually 10-20% above actual prices in game stores), and that's already pricy.

@jasonfeiner

Жыл бұрын

@@Kasandra_ $10 per model... WITH LAYER LINES. Lower quality, higher cost... a winning recipe!

I have been waiting to see what your take will be on this one............old company, huge range, seldom played, magnets, open rules...........maybe this will revitalize steampunk mech skirmish gaming

Good job and congratulations on the commercial; I watched the whole thing, and I like the desk.

I bought WM Mk I when it was released. It was such a breath of fresh air. But the years ticked by and it became just as bloated and out of control as the game PP was revolting against. I think the biggest issue WM will face this time around is stiff competition from truly awesome games that have materialized over the last 5ish years - Star Wars Legion and MCP are big sellers in my area with lots of players. Not to mention 40k and AOS having very active communities, in spite of all the issues with those games. The only people I’ve seen remotely excited about warmachine are the few old school players I know who are still playing.

@scott8658

Жыл бұрын

I remember playing Mk1 and Mk2 of Warmachine, it was fun at first with the small size/point based games. At some point though they made the game sizes bigger and there was a release of a warcaster/unit/jack nearly every month so it was hard to keep up with meta and combos. For me it just got tiring to keep up with and certain units were clearly not game tested before release. I felt this way when I had 2 full units of bane knights and just rolled over people in a few tournaments during its release, which just made me feel bad. I really enjoyed mk1 prime and still have fun memories of that portion of the game.

@chucklapine6782

Жыл бұрын

Mk1and Mk2 were fun. I liked the game when it was about the warjacks. It got less fun when they made it more about infantry.

@marcie1671

Жыл бұрын

I kind of fell out of WM for multiple reasons betweeen 3rd and 2nd edition. I felt like the newer models were beiginning to be designed ruleswise for selling them rather than game balance-a major reason I left 40k.

1:00 - Hey, kid, wanna touch my... Warjack? So seriously, Warmachine was my first Miniatures wargame because it was just so danged affordable. Like you barely needed to buy any minis to have a solid army, easily under a hundred bucks. But eegads their current prices.

GW: "I must break you" Privateer Press: "lol, dont care"

Selling the STL files for us to print would be the best way of doing it. Not sure why they are choosing to print themselves.

@buchsg

Жыл бұрын

Just trying to maximise the profits…

I've seen for the first time Warmachine minis i think around 2006... Fun fact they were sold in a small shop in an ALLEY near the official GW store in Milan

I think the mk4 is s step in the right direction. Free rules means that any rules issues can be fixed rather than it get codified for a whole era in a book. My local print shop is happy to print me a copy of the rules. Not a huge fan of the subscription but I'm waiting to see if I need it based on how often we want to play. Plus if there is any truth to how kickstarters work they have done a number of 1 million buck+ kickstarters and this shows long term interest in the game. I'm been to warmachine events and I've been to Warmachine events and I have to say the rules may not be as quick but the depth is there and player skill really matters, rather than buckets of dice. Happy to chat about it.

Holy shit. That was the smoothest transition into a sponsored message i've ever witnessed in my life.

The whole encounter in an alley thing seems like you may have had an incredibly similar experience to what you described or you're going for the " Best Performance in KZread Video" Oscar or you had an emotionally scarring incident as a child just trying to by some minis.

@DiscourseMinis

Жыл бұрын

the hobbit movies had just come out, people just let loose, everything was a little wilder back then

@andrueurbane7361

Жыл бұрын

OR... all of the above.

@SymbioteMullet

Жыл бұрын

at least it wasn't the Emperor this time

Thank you, thank you, thank you! Thank you so much for this video!

[Me, cradling my Bronzeback Titan] "One day, my angry pachyderm son, your star shall rise again"

“Play like you got a pair” hahah holy crap you took me back on that one.

As a hoary old veteran who started Warmachine back at the dawn of 2nd edition, and remembers the absolute outcry from the fans at the release of Mk3, I can kind of understand the grovelling, apologetic tone of the Mk4 announcement.... The competetive nature of the game coupled with HUGE probability space of the various caster/tier list/different factions, meant that if you were serious about winning a tournament, you not only needed to know your own box of tricks, you really needed to know your opponent's too.... There are so many ways to score a rapid caster kill against an unprepared opponent that you basically needed to know what every caster in every faction can do, and that is a lot of homework.... A new edition means you have to do it all over again, and so many players just didnt have the commitment to do it again..... I'm excited and hope the game grows to a steady place, I've already abandoned GW years ago, I don't need to play the big game on the block, just something that carves its own little niche

Last week the Embracer Group bought the rights for everything related to Lord of the Rings. There is a chance that after current contracts run out that GW won’t be able to keep the license for producing miniatures and games. The Embracer Group got their own games company in Atomic Mass Games. (SpikeyBits published an article on that topic two days ago.) Are you concerned Middle Earth will come to end not because GW wants to end it, but because they simply loose the rights to continue with it? You mentioned before it is your favorite GW game.

@sergeiyamagoro431

Жыл бұрын

Oof. Atomic Mass Games ruined X-Wing with endless rules changes which were overly complicated, unnecessary, and difficult to keep up with.

@theanimaster

Жыл бұрын

Yeah AMG also bought out Fantasy Flight Games and ruined their stuff too. Between a large corporate company from the UK, and a large corporate company from the US… I think I trust the one from the UK more. The only US company I trust more would be Wizards of the Coast. They’re not perfect, but they did keep MtG going throughout the years and they did revive D&D and that was no small feat.

@severintw

Жыл бұрын

@@sergeiyamagoro431 is it even possible or likely that they take over the game from GW. The copyright for the game system is with GW… right? I thought it is more likely that GW discontinues Middle Earth SGB and create their own system.

@severintw

Жыл бұрын

@@theanimaster but this is a different situation, isn’t it. AMG is not getting the license and the creator of the game. They might only get the license, which I thought would mean GW can no longer produce miniatures and rule books that got Middle Earth stuff in it.

@ChrisKCook

Жыл бұрын

@@theanimaster were they the ones responsible for that, 'thing' they called WFRP 3rd Edition. You know the one sold predominantly in boxed sets like it was still the nineteen fucking eighties? The one with the boxes full of endless cards and little cardboard counters for you to lose or spill red creaming soda all over? The one with the special cardboard rrack to keep track of if the elf and dwarf were getting along. You know rather than say fucking role playing? The one where you had to wait for the first expansion to be able to play the Ratcatcher with his 'small but vicious dog'. You know probably the second most iconic career in the game after Trollslayer? The game that not even the developers were that enthused about at launch and everyone seems to agree might be a fine system in it's self. Just not Warhammer? Were they responsible for that shit show?

Pure Gold…as always! Thank you for all your efforts in putting this together 😊

The intro was hilarious!! But you're absolutely right about the sales pitch. If this had been Warhammer announcing a new launch, they would have pulled out all the stoppers and not apologised for it!! As usual a hilarious and yet spot on video. Keep up the good work.

For me, when Privateer press did the open playtest for mark2 it felt like I had a say in how the ultimate product released. mark 2 was 5 years of some fun times, and a joy to go to events. But mark 3 changed all that good feeling there was no say from the player base. And within 6-9 months everything faded away. You were in a constant flux of rules changes for each faction. The ended up playing the games with out terrain and printed off templates. I wish them luck though

Always appreciate news coverage. Thanks

Sweet, I had suggested this and I'm glad you made this video. :D Now its time to drink some resin and sit tight for the video. :)

@DiscourseMinis

Жыл бұрын

noooooooooooooooooooooo

So, I will say that as someone that enjoys both Warhammer and Warmachine, the thing that Warhammer 40k does that Warmachine does not do is enable you to play absolutely massive games. Like... I have 20000+ points of Dark Angels for a reason. The hobby side of 40k is also better... more conversions, a more kitbash-friendly community, and the big thing... models that can be customized with different gear. But Warmachine does, at least in my mind, play better. In fact, I think a lot of the success of 8th and 9th edition are due to lessons learned from Warmachine's objective-focused gameplay and go big or go home style of play (Stratagems and Psychic powers look a lot more like the spells, feats, and mini-feats of Warmachine than anything prior to 8th edition 40k). I think what Mk IV is attempting to do is to learn from 40k this time. They're creating multi-part kits (hopefully with customization options, but we'll see) that are magnet friendly because they realized... hey... people really like being able to kit out their lists at a micro level instead of just choosing which units go in it. Warcasters are also designed to be more generic and more "build your own" than Mk III and earlier. I think Privateer Press realized that what most miniatures gamers enjoy isn't *just* having a rich, story-driven world to dive into, but is *also* being able to create an avatar through which to dive into it. So, I think it's too late to be pronouncing any death knells for Privateer Press, but they do definitely have a lot of digging to do before they can pull themselves out of their own grave (hopefully I didn't abuse that metaphor too much).

BTW, Wmhrds was the most rock-paper-scissor list building game ever made….

It is a strange choice. It makes sense for a boutique brand expecting low volume but not for something that used to be big. I remember a conversation with impact miniatures where he said if you want more than say 50 to 100 minis you should mold them and cast them in resin compared to 3d printing.

I freaking love your videos!!!! So informative and super entertaining!!!!!😂

Seriously enjoying your videos!

Great video Discourse I have to admit i'm pretty wary too although I did really enjoy at one time warmachine mark 2 and was pretty excited about other mini games like Malifaux id like to see privateer press succeed and I hate to think of people losing there jobs however I kind of feel its a little to late and they really dropped the ball.

Smooooth transition into the sponsored msg. Hehehe.

I got to play a demo of Warmachine when it was first shown at Gencon. It was pretty cool.

Among the many misfires in this launch, the price point is one of the major problems I'm seeing here, especially for resin 3d printed models.

@britainbetterthanyou

Жыл бұрын

It depends if it's premium resin or not surely? Plus the magnets are included.

@malakimphoros2164

Жыл бұрын

@@britainbetterthanyou Premium resin? What?

@dbul2542

Жыл бұрын

I’ve noticed for people selling independent resin miniatures online the price point is frequently close to cost parity with GW (and SW Legion) for similar models. For independent sellers I could see not having the cost savings on shipping (although resin minis are small and light, even with packing materials.) But I’m not sure why the cost savings from 3D printing aren’t materializing outside of doing it yourself which is cheaper.

@flameknightdragon

Жыл бұрын

@@britainbetterthanyou it does not matter how premium the resin is. it will still at most be 2-3 dollars to make. Also magnets are not that expensive when PP is buying them in bulk.

My local locally owned and non-franchised gamestore sees Warhammer, Warmachine, Hordes and Batman being gamed there. Warmachine is quite small, but has very loyal community. Good video. Keep up the good work

Thanks for pointing out Noble Knight Games to me. I placed two orders I hope it sends a couple of coins your way. As a plus for me, I got some good brushes and great minis.

This scenario in the alley sounds personal....

Great review discourse! I ended up getting a few war machine models with a lot at least 10 years ago. I hope to maybe build them and paint them shortly based on your video. Quick note of concern, KZread unsubscribed me from your channel at some point recently. I’ve corrected that, but I hope this isn’t happening with your other subscribers and patrons. Continue the great and entertaining reviews

15:35 No excuse. I do 3d printing and I have a resin cleaner. It only takes around 10 minutes to clean and harden to resin with 0 issue.

As for subscription service.... "You will own nothing and you will be happy", rings a bell?

Being the "other guy" no longer enough within the current wargaming landscape, good video 👍

In the process of selling my Warmachine stuff and picking up Conquest: Argument of Kings and First Blood

"Devil's Rollercoaster?" Well played, lol 😎🤘🍻

Kinda forgot this was about minis for the first minute…

Honestly, Privateer Press has made a lot of puzzling decisions over the last few years. And I think that announcement of MkIV was written with those poor decisions of their own in mind. Because they relaunched another game of theirs prior to MkIV to a not great reaction from fans, and I think that's why they started out with "Don't panic." What game was that? Monsterpocalpyse. It was originally a blind box kaiju battle miniatures game. It died and they brought it back. And when they brought it back, it was no longer blind box, which you know, no one would really object to. But when they brought it back, they changed the scale of the miniatures, and said the old miniatures were no longer legal to field in the new edition. They "didn't want new players to be at a disadvantage to players of the old edition." Except, you know, players with tons of miniatures they could loan out to people to try out the game, is one of the best ways of getting people to pick up a new system. So, they eliminated an excellent and proven marketing strategy that would have driven adoption of the game. Of course, if old players can't use their old miniatures, they'll have to buy the new ones. And sure, that's a way to drum up sales, in theory. It's also a way to make it so your existing fan base of a game, just doesn't bother to pick it up. And so, I'm not sure what happened with the new edition of Monsterpocalpyse, I know I didn't bother trying it out. I bet it didn't sell quite as well as Privateer Press was hoping, and the tone of this announcement of, "Yes, we're releasing a new edition, but don't panic," kind of suggests they were acknowledging that the approach they took with Monsterpocalpyse wasn't the best, and reassuring players that their existing models for Warmachine would still be table legal.

The choice of image for a Warhammer Killer was chef's kiss.

As someone who bases almost my entire hobby around 3D printing, this seems like an interesting move by them, but to already have such a huge miss-step regarding the not cleaning is a pretty big PR disaster. Not to mention the price! If I'm paying a premium I expect something that is durable and high quality. Such a wasted opportunity on all fronts so far with this launch.

You call uncured resin a health hazard. I call it the forbidden frosting.

You should make a video about painting your orks. I would watch that.

Ah man I haven't played Warmahordes in 4 years

I got a small squad for WM, but really got into Malifaux. Now I'm in Gaslands.

As a Warmachine player I'm calling this now "RIP Warmachine"

@HauntedCorpseGaming

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I've got 8 factions but MK3 was such a disaster and this announcement and implementation is worse than how people advertise things on Etsy.

@Zieg_Games

3 ай бұрын

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, Warmachine is kicking ass right now.

@tarekt8427

2 ай бұрын

@@Zieg_Games on what planet. they are barely a blip on the radar of wargaming.

They are leaving money on the table not selling the stl files, and scaling to multiple 3d printer farms with experience

17:47 Wow.... it's almost like something that I'm experimenting with... granted mines are just joints but If I had the proper sizes I think I can make magnet ready parts no issue.

Privateer Press suffered major backlash for their Mk.III rules. I expect their…hesitance…stems from that, more than anything else.

i would love a detailed biopic of Privateer Press, if you ever decided to do one. ;)

I wish this rivalry would have lasted then maybe GW wouldn’t be the devil to its players

They did add magnets. With the set. An with th rules your like building a warjack. You have a chassis and it's a point cost then after that you can add a helm an left and right arm. These add extra points to the cost of the warjack so you can play around customisation for your army or theme

Ive been playing warmachine since Prime and Prime Remix. And at one point I ran a sizeable club as a brand ambassador. Let's just say I am grateful I have all my books, the original No Quarter Magazines, army cards etc from 1st ed through 3rd ed. PP jumped the shark on this.

My first thought was that they are obviously printing using SLS printers so there are no supports needed, no curing, no clean up phase really at all. But no. They are just resin printing. RIP Privateer Press.

I agree in that 3d printing is best for made to order or personal production, not mass production

i'm sold. elevator desk is superior for minis.

Holy fuck a sponsored ad that I actually give fuck about, ever, genuinely, well done :)

Xwing also over took 40k for a bit

@barbarusbloodshed6347

Жыл бұрын

Did it?

@optiondezzo1513

Жыл бұрын

@@barbarusbloodshed6347 yes for about 2 years when FFG had the license it did but afterwards the SW license got passed around within the Asmodee and with Covid, the game lost most of its audience after 2nd edition was released.

like 10 years or so ago, when i looked at warmachine models and GW models I was amazed by how detailed and original thay are despite coming from small company. Gw was not sleeping it was adapting and improving warmachine was not, old molds unnaturally swollen armies that lost its core (look cryx that years ago was very cryx like on all of units). I think warmachine can be rly rly rly good game with massive fallowing but there is no beating gw now.

Warmachine will never kill 40k. Of the 30 regulars at my LGS 1 of them wants to try WM. I'd imagine it's probably that ratio in every other store around the US. Mark 3 was fun but was popular for about 6 months than 8yh edition came out and WM died.

Maybe the new rulebook is "The Warmahordes Guide to the Galaxy" and its SUPPOSED to have "Don't Panic" in friendly letters on the cover; I'll bet there's an entry for GW that reads "Mostly Harmless"...

Wire reference was legit

I think a major factor a lot of people miss when discussing how Warmachine managed to become hugely popular in the early 2010's, is the fact that the steampunk trend had also managed to become huge and mainstream at the time. Unsurprisingly, the popularity of Warmachine dropped sharply when interest in steampunk waned.

Yeah... they really dropped the ball here and did it HARD. Let's start with the obvious: the pricing. These guys still think FOR SOME REASON that aligne their prices on the notoriously overpriced GW was the right move. I don't think there's really any need for me to explain why this is stupid. Then they decided to pull a Age of Sigmar reboot where all your old armies are now "legend" (ie worthless), and isntead of rebooting them all they just keep 2 and make up new ones instead. They didn't even keep what was arguably their most visually striking and icon faction, the Cryx. The most insulting part is how they are trying to pretend this is exactly NOT what they are doing... when it clearly is. Then there's the 3D printing. On paper a great idea that could help them deliver very, VERY cheap minies to cut the grass under GW ... but a we know that' not what they are doing, and from the first minies we already saw, the quality seem to rang between "meh" to just awful. And they couldn't even make sure all their minies are unique, you'll get repeat in the same squad. This is... awful. The only think they had to do was to make sure they could undercut GW hard, have the best quality possible for their minies and NOT spit in the face of their last loyal customer by pulling a End Time on them, and they failed at all of that.

@kgoblin5084

Жыл бұрын

"Then there's the 3D printing. On paper a great idea that could help them deliver very, VERY cheap minies to cut the grass under GW ... but a we know that' not what they are doing, and from the first minies we already saw, the quality seem to rang between "meh" to just awful. And they couldn't even make sure all their minies are unique, you'll get repeat in the same squad." This statement kind of shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the pros/cons of 3d printing... it ISN'T the cheapest overall option, per mini that is actually good old injection molding. The trick is injection molding has HUGE setup costs which mean you need to sell X sculpt of mini in large volumes to get the economy of scale. 3d printing on the other hand is higher cost p/ mini, but bottom barrel setup costs and also MUCH quicker turn around between design/production. Overtime, this will mean a company that only sells 3d prints will necessarily have higher costs p/ packaged set than 1 that uses injection molding... because injection molding costs pennies/figure once you've paid off the cost of the mold, whereas 3d prints are significantly more expensive just based on required quality control & material costs Most notably though, what you're actually complaining about is quality/variety of the sculpts... which is an independent factor of how the minis are actually manufactured. Arguably a 3d printing pipeline helps a bit because it allows for rapid prototyping... but at the end of the day a good quality sculpt is dependent on having talented artists/designers coming up with something that looks cool... not the process used to replicate mass-market copies of the original sculpture.

@Pers0n97

Жыл бұрын

@@kgoblin5084 I know perfectly well the pro and con of 3D printing, and I know as a matter of fact that its way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cheapter to produce than what they are selling them for, and the don't even have the excuse of the high cost of production for the injection mould (which isn't that expensive anymore btw). So yeah, PP has no excuse, NONE to try to sell their stuff the same price than GW. As for the sculpt, it's ANOTHER point, unrelated to the previous one. THis point is about the fact that since you don't have to worry about a sprue size for your mould, you have literally no reason to have repeat of minies with 3D printing... outside of the fact that you couldn't be bothered to pay your artist for one more pose. Next time, try to process the points being made rather than instantly trying to highroad everyone, thanks.

Privateer Press was the only one that could give GW a run for its money. But those days are looooong gone. Personally I think the reason was their focus on tournament gaming. The tournament player crowd is... well, let's just say you can't build a community around these guys...

@barbarusbloodshed6347

Жыл бұрын

Maybe I should give an example: the guys at my local store. When I tried to start with Warmachine they didn't want to play me, because I had no experience. They were "real" tournament players, who drive around the country and play several tournaments per year. Since I had no experience, their logic was, it was of no use to them to play against me. Because they wouldn't learn anything from that. Because they could not "hone their skills playing a beginner". Sooo... if they won't play against someone without experience, how can a beginner start playing the game? Playing against himself? So, yeah. If that's not gatekeeping, I don't know what is. ^^

@bobhopfner3812

Жыл бұрын

@@barbarusbloodshed6347 I came from a pretty strong Mage Knight competitive community and many of us moved over to Warmachine but very few kept up with the crazy rules. When Hordes came out and it was an entirely new set of game mechanics, everyone was like WHY? Why do you have to make this harder? Maybe I am not the A1 competitive player but I wasn't having fun like MK. I love painting, the lore, the Iron Kingdoms world and Matt Wilson's art. I keep painting the figs for fun and that's about it.

Hordes/Warmachine is my first wargaming tabletop. I have a Cygnar and Legion army. I have been looking at getting in to Infinity.

@snarkymcsnarkface1863

Жыл бұрын

Infinity is great fun and as a former ret/coc player I can tell you it is worth the investment. Great community as well. Before putting down a dime get a demo game or two of codeone. It is basically n4 infinity on a diet and let's you get your head around the concepts of infinity before letting you go into the overwhelming pool of options in n4. With cygnar and legion being your warmachine taste. Do a first look at Yu jing, pan o or possibly combined army. Pan o offers some of the best guns in the game and a solid line up of tags. The codeone collection box is a solid entry point. Melee is really second fiddle to guns in infinity. They are kinda like infinitys take on realistic space marines. They also have a stealth tag/stompy robot. Yu jing uses lots of heavy infantry and solid guns. Lots of cute tricks. Combine army can play any play style you want, big guns, stompy robots, hyper aggressive or nasty hacking it can all be found in CA. the codeone collection is very stealth/deception focused, like you can nul deploy and just have a field of camo markers. Then there is Morats and they are, a very in your face, brick through window play style, think skorne. Now. If you are really into hacking and think it is the best thing since sliced bread. Don't mind a faction that looks like someone just had random ideas that became an faction. Take a look at nomads, they have the best hacking in the game, they have some of the most random and fun sectorals. some of the nastiest CC in all of infinity with the tools to get into CC. They have a tag that ejects the pilot with a hmg meaning your opponent really did not solve the tag issue they just made it smaller.

@snarkymcsnarkface1863

Жыл бұрын

If none of that is to your visual or lore taste. Keep looking almost every army can fit any play style to a degree. Some just do it was easier than others. Jsa however is the odd ball and really not beginner friendly. They lack guns and they are very mission focused. Meaning you need knowledge of the missions, what your opponent can do and what threats you need to kill. Because it is generally a huge resource commitment. Worse there are some things you really don't want to fight because you are crit fishing and they are just gonna dice you to death. So the jsa solution is often run or apply monofilament cc ninja and hope they don't get smushed into paste. Once you got your head around the game they are one of the most rewarding armys to play. haqq is a great faction and the range refresh happening with codeone right now is amazing. But they have a sectoral that is out of print currently. Aleph is an odd duck. They basically have two flavors sword or anvil with great hacking in both. While the vanilla side let's you blend them in to a interesting mix. If you are on a budget and want a faction that can offer everyrhing in a small package this is a faction to checkout. The codeone refresh happening right now is a solid time to look at the faction. They are my 2nd most played army after tohaa/spiral Corp. O-12 is very much like ret with out the assassinate everything all the time. They are a very interesting combined arms faction with lots of control elements. every model having a specific job as long as you apply the right model to the task t You can easily wreck someone's day. Their major drawback is how specialized most of the roster is but it is very beginner friendly and they can be slow, they do have a great bike that can easily create the bad and worse choice scenarios for unsuspecting opponents. The Sirius team is also a nasty bit of work when played correctly. Generally getting started avoid the na2 section. They are the things you get into when you don't want a whole new faction.

Yeah they lost me the moment they said it was going to be 3d printed but wouldn't be selling us the STL files. Thank you but no thank you. As we all know One Page Rules is giving us a ton of mini's monthly, for a price that can't be beat. Best of luck Privateer Press but it's not for me bud.

Can PP 3D print at scale? We already have that answer ... at least for now. The answer is "NO". This is why they stopped selling the boxes of minis they were selling at GenCon. Like stopped selling the Friday morning of the GenCon weekend. Because, according to them, if they kept taking orders they would not be able to meet their army box deadlines. So they stopped selling their actual product to actual customers with actual interest and actual money so they wouldn't risk not being able to make another product that has no current customers and (at that time) no way for those that wanted to buy it to actually be able to buy that product. And that is wayyyyy before the ridiculous pricing, (admitted) quality control issues, and huge confusion on the whole "app" based thing or what it means for your investment into their new gaming system given that already just invalidated huge swaths of you current investment if you happened to already be a customer (as my son and I are). Yes, you can play non-Prime with your old models ... or at least you will be able to at some point later when they get around to actually enabling whatever that ends up looking like whenever they end up getting around to it. So, in short, "no", they can't print at scale (yet? maybe later? maybe never?) and evidently don't want anybody to buy anything from them if it doesn't fit on their timeline and specific view of the universe. And for those of us that want the STLs because we already invested in our own 3D printing capability and therefore have no interest in their over-priced physical models ... well they don't care about us, either, even if we have the money ready to go, right now, if they would only bother to actually create a subscription (the STLs) that I would totally be interested in paying for month after month. I wish them well and I did buy two of the initial boxes, on sale, just before GenCon fully ramped up and they then inexplicably stopped selling them anymore. I wanted to get an idea of what might be coming out for MkIV so took advantage of the lower cost to buy some models for my son and I. However, everything I've seen so far is that I won't be spending any more money on their products because they don't want to sell me what I want to buy ... unlike their actual competition (in my world) like One Page Rules and Black Anvil Miniatures. I already don't buy Games Workshop stuff so competing against a product I already don't buy while actively ignoring the products I actually do buy is not a compelling way to get me to hop onboard your band wagon. I do hope they know what they are doing, however, because I want them to succeed ... but very little of anything I see them doing makes any sense, to me, right now, in my hobbying journey even though War Machine and Hordes is actually what got me into this hobby over a decade ago. Looking forward to being totally wrong about this, though, so here's to hoping! We'll see where it all lands.

@flameknightdragon

Жыл бұрын

also the fact people were getting bad prints. even to the people that ordered at gen con.

@dustiespring6591

Жыл бұрын

They can’t sell you the actual STL because it’d be waaaay to easy for someone to buy the STL, then turn around and sell it cheaper, then again, and again, until it eventually becomes free… and then PP has sold all of one STL and lost hundreds-thousands of dollars. Also I heard that part of the reason they stopped selling was because they busted and broke sales records and even their projected sales… which is actually really good… buuuut does mean that they have to now take that info and adjust. Will they be able to? Who knows?! But I’m excited to see if they can :)

@thum-nales

Жыл бұрын

@@dustiespring6591 Maybe, maybe not. Will there be folks that will pirate it or sell it or whatever? I have to believe there absolutely will be most of the time … just browse through etsy for examples of that. Totally get that. Stop selling your product because it exceeded expectations? Totally could make sense in distribution models and markets where there is great cost in time and/or money to bring more to the market. Is this the reality for Privateer Press? They said it was and so I’m inclined to believe them … I see no reason not to. But the inescapable fact is that one of the advantages they were touting to their 3D printing approach was that they could dynamically scale to customer needs and that totally, totally, is not how this played out on the very first test of this supposed advantage. They very quickly hit a wall that exceeded they ability to get past. Most of the boxes they were selling didn’t exist when they sold them … they always planned to print many of them “on demand” over the weeks after the con and get them to customers. But whatever capacity they set aside wasn’t enough and they couldn’t figure out a way to profitably adjust. Maybe next time? Maybe. Hope so. Time will tell. For what it is worth I still haven’t received the two boxes I bought and I am less than four hours away from their headquarters … and I bought these boxes early Thursday morning so if there is a queue I have reason to believe that I would most likely be in the front half of that queue. Its not looking good from where I’m sitting and I have no other way to interpret things right now other than they were very wrong about what they could deliver and it isn’t clear to me that they can, or will, adjust to this very real problem. But I also know that that the top five STL subscriptions I have (I have many more than five) pulls in many tens of thousands of dollars each and every month. Are they profitable? No idea. I’m not privy any of those details but they seem to be doing alright for the moment. In any event there is very obviously money to be had at the moment through these STL subscriptions. What I can say is that, for me, and obviously a great many people like me, there is no way I’m going to waste my time and money scouring the internet to try to find that pirate cove of random STLs of wildly varying quality and applicability to steal when I can simply have tons of really cool STLs, each month, for an average cost of about 7 bucks a month per subscription. Why would I ever bother to go the pirating route when I already get so much at a price I’m absolutely willing and able to pay? I mean, I work for a living. I understand the value of people getting paid for valuable services. For me the price is super reasonable, the products are amazing, and I know my money is going, more or less, directly to the creators themselves in hopes that they’ll continue to make more. I’m what the creator should focus on as much as possible … not the thieves. “Piracy”, in the form spoken about here is almost exclusively an economic phenomenon … the creator or distributor is asking more for their product than the customer wants to spend. The reaction to this “too much” is to either haggle the price down, find another seller, find another product, steal it, or just decide to go without. Whichever way that goes isn’t so important, really, that is literally the market at work. What is important, though, in my experience, is understanding your relationship with the last two. The ones that walk away may never come back and thus you lose all access to their present and future money expenditures from that point forward and/or have to spend money to try and get them back … in which case you probably should just have lowered your price in the first place or offered a more compelling product, or both, and not risked losing the customer, possibly forever. For the ones that steal … that’s a harder one to navigate because one will probably want to, incorrectly, perceive these as lost money and thus as money stolen from you which, for many many products like digital music, STLs, ebooks, etc. simply isn’t reality … most of those thieves would most likely never have bought the product in the first place and most likely couldn’t care less about your product, now or ever. I’ve met more than a few music pirate types in my lifetime with hundreds of thousands of hours of music they will never listen, don’t know they have, and couldn’t care less about owning ... none of them were ever going to buy any of the music … no sale was ever lost. Throwing good money after bad trying to chase these kinds of folks down or corral them is just losing real money on the pretense of chasing imaginary money. It is fine to contain the money loss to theft but it is the reality that there will always be thieves … it will also be a part of the cost of doing business. As a business person thieves can’t be the focus of your business. You are far more likely to lose far more money to fellow business folks trying to muscle in on your market than you are to thieves. More importantly, if you aren’t careful, you can easily reach a point where you are spending more to contain the thieves than you are gaining from having contained them and also start losing actual paying customers along the way. Privateer Press can sell their STLs just likes tons and tons of other companies already do. It is even possible for them to do so profitably because many other companies already do the same thing. I would even imagine that most of their customers would still be buying their physical models because most folks don’t have, or want, a 3D printer or want to deal with the hassle of printing it. But many customers would absolutely want this and would absolutely pay for it. They don’t have to if they don’t want to but the business model is already proven to be solid and successful for others including their neighbors, Broken Anvil Miniatures, which, from what I can tell looking at their videos, seems to be half composed of former Privateer Press employees. So, without question they absolutely can sell the actual STLs … nothing is stopping them but them. This model is current miniature market fact and many enjoy success doing exactly that. Do they have to? No. Do they want to? Doesn’t look like it, which is fine … it isn’t my company or product. But the inescapable reality for them is that I don’t have to buy their product, either. I have spent thousands of dollars on their products over the years but it doesn’t look like, at the moment, that this trend will continue because they aren’t selling me what I want and their competitors are. But, hey, out with the old and in with the new so hopefully they can generate enough new customers to replace the old ones that decide to sit this one out for a while (or forever). “Adapt or die” as the saying goes. I’m hoping for the best but not sure where all of this goes, yet. But that is fine. I have way more, fully paid for, STLs already and have more and more coming each month so I’ll be okay either way.

It's [Warmachine] in a box.

Even now I‘m not sure if that table sponsor segment was actually real or some kind of inside joke I‘m not in on.

I'm legitimately more curious about your height after the standing desk bit than Warmachine. It's sad though as there's a good premise there but they don't seem to be able to pull it together. I've had a couple of their models but what will 3d printing do to kit bashing and customisability?

The only people who thought Privateer Press, a privately owned company, was as big as Games Workshop, a publicly owned company with a wealth of video games, novels, etc. we're hardcore GW players. It is funny that GW hard cores have created a sick relationship where they bitch about GW being the only option but shit on vastly smaller games they have never and will never try. For the rest of us that play more than one wargame, we are trying out the beta rules and are excited.

I'm kinda interested but I don't think I can get into another gaming system right now. I love the Grymkin but I don't know what Privateer Press are going to do with them and how their aesthetic is gonna change once or if they're updated.

I watch your obscure videos about WFB characters. I'm not nobody. Am I? Oh no!

This PP announcement was really meant for current MK3 players and was their attempt not to scare them away as this edition is really a full reset similar to GW's change to Age of Sigmar. I believe that PP will focus on new players and start to drive hype marketing for MK4 in 2023 when the starters are released, the new app is complete, and in-store organized play and support arrives. I don't believe that PP will ever rival GW again, but I'm pretty exited about the new direction they are taking with armies and tackling sku bloat.

@flameknightdragon

Жыл бұрын

issue is PP relies on old players to spread word of mouth. and unlike GW, PP has no big game like 40K to hold the lined. if this flops (it likely will since most gameshops are dumping PP altogether.) their company will tank.

i like the warmachine IP but the company has refused to make permanent investments into making proper plastic models. a lot of the missteps from the company from the past 15 years highlights a company with weak leadership.

GW already does magnet holes. Look at Adeptus Titanicus or plastic Contemptor.

You should be doing stand up at the games conventions. really not taking a piss you should thanks for the this

Warmahordes was how I got my start. Back in the ye ole year of 2008, GW was the devil, the rules looked bloated and toxic, the models were prohibitively expensive, and the community was insular. And then there was Warmachine and PP, more affordable, an emphasis on grassroots community with the press gangers, and a rule set that was quick to learn but really deep without the need for a bucket of dice. Organized play rewards were cool trinkets like metal coins and medals. PP GenCon prescence was huge. It was a mad dash and tradition to get their convention exclusive. I still remember going to the Ram, a local pub that would make everything warmachine themed for the weekend. Mk2 was a great rules update. And then it all just faded. I looked into things when the pandemic spurred returning to old hobbies and all the stores basically said it was dead. No plastics, a lack of customization. There was a lot that PP didn't do to just stay current and a friend said the mk3 rules weren't great. Hope mk4 brings some competition back to the wargaming space.

So, bravo on doing research into the game, and addressing some things that others have not. I'm going to give the same response to this vid I gave to corners, then address the issues you mentioned that he didn't... *The reason that the press release is written the way it is, is something you can ask anyone that used to play warmachine; it's aimed at trying to get back players they lost. Those of us who left in mk3, the release is addressing a lot of the issues we left for, so they are targeting old consumers to earn their trust and money back. I certainly understand if someone wants a big razzle-dazze announcement, but personally, I prefer honest and to the point information. *the only reason that this "uncured resin " thing became an issue, is because a person overreacted and made pretty big inflammatory statements on social media, without even talking to the company 1st. They went online and made outrageous claims about "ooh! I touched a wet model for 1 minute and my fingers started burning!!"...from soap... it turned out to be soap residue... That was completely NOT the way to handle that, when they were literally @grncon, and the company was literally downstairs, that they could go talk to. That kinda reeks to me of sabotage... *the original models that people were complaining about were minis made to be used for playtest and they directly told the people that got them, "THESE ARE NOT THE FINISHED PRODUCT ". The vast majority of bought minis were fine, according to the buyers (there were a few exceptions, but most were good). *The $200 box does have 20 modes... PLUS 8 extra arms and 4 extra heads for 2 of the models, PLUS the magnets needed to magnetize them. So, in essence, you are getting 28-30 model-sized pieces of resin, and all the magnets needed. So, $200 is honestly about what you would pay in earlier editions for army boxes. I'm not saying that's fair, but I'm do not sure what Quality of resin they're using, hw many people are needed to remove the porcupines and wash modes, etc. *subscription service and no book.. I totally agree! I find subscription services to be annoying, and I prefer to have a book right rhere, handy and easy. I also think that the reason there's no book is so they can adjust rules as necessary as models get released that could have rules that complicate the system and become OP. I don't like that all that much, because sometimes, companies will alter rules month to month, making it harder to learn to play.

@03dashk64

Жыл бұрын

Yeah the subscription model and price of the starter sets really put me off. $200 is a big ask, regardless of game.

@septymesk7721

Жыл бұрын

$200 wS actually the cost of the old army boxes. The warmachine ones usually had around the same size army, but the Hordes ones usually had less models, but usually bigger sized ones (skorne had titans, legion had proteus, etc). They're still going to sell the models separately, so people can still buy the stuff separately..I do a litte 3D printing for hire on the side, and $200 sounds like about what it would cost to print an army for someone, especially using water soluble resin, which is more expensive than the regular

Sub fee for cloud storage of army lists was hilarious, I mean they know pen and paper exists right?

Oh boy oh boy I realy want to start playing Warmashean but... you know.

I like warmachine and I agree with you, I stopped warmachine when they close their forum. They didn't want to hear their customers complain and it was the begin of the end...

for a moment there I was worried this would get demonetized

Appreciate the discourse as always. They aren’t the company they used to be, and frankly won’t be again. But they’re also not trying to be that again either I feel. I personally love what they have been doing through the pandemic with the IKRPG and the new edition now. It’s a beautiful setting with lots to explore The community is quite small now, but it is full of compassionate people who care about the setting and want to see the game succeed. I would also argue that PP has some of the best customer service in the industry, and will fix any issues you may have with your products

I loved the story telling in the intro. You and this channel are freaking cool!

And the reluctant tone of the press release coupled with the clearly rushed miniatures makes me think Gus Fring has the Privateer crew making a wargame under duress in a basement lab beneath a laundromat.

Love your style, thanks for sharing info and your opinion with fun. Be safe, and have fun killing your next table top opponent with no mercy!

Warmahords was the first gaming system I got into back in MK2, but I have moved on to Bolt action since 2017. Will I get back into Warmahords... I don't know.

i tried to get into back in day but in notts no one played it, so back to warhammer but now days im playing alot more i still play AOS but not 40k but im really into malifaux its an amzing game tbh