Excellent, I am beginning to understand the deception of the exiled Sanhedrin and their deluded but outrageous schemes to deny that Jesus was the promised Messiah of Israel.

The stone of Armilus may refer to the black stone altar of Elagabal, which the Arab Emperor of Rome Elagabalus brought to Rome in the 4th C.

@beefymario88

2 ай бұрын

Very interesting, I just found this on Wikipedia re Elagabel. A lavish temple called the Elagabalium was built on the east face of the Palatine Hill to house Elagabal,[73] who was represented by a black conical meteorite from Emesa.[45] This was a baetylus. Herodian wrote "this stone is worshipped as though it were sent from heaven; on it there are some small projecting pieces and markings that are pointed out, which the people would like to believe are a rough picture of the sun, because this is how they see them".[74] 🤔 🤔 🤔

Absolutely fascinating. So much new content that is being released, so much to absorb. Thank you Mel.

Outstanding! Truly outstanding.

This history of the Jewish exilarchs and beliefs about Messiahs looks likely to bear fruit, although it is obviously only one part of the picture. When and how did a Jewish sect become an Arab sect that excluded Jews? Questions for future examination.

@crossedfalcon23

2 ай бұрын

Even iam thinking that?

@Orion-lt3zz

2 ай бұрын

The vacuum created out of Manichaen projects failure. A an attempt to synthesize the three great axial ages.

@vicmath1005

2 ай бұрын

Don't know anything about the exilarchs. The leader of the 637 CE conquest of Jerusalem was 'Umar ibn al-Khattab (Gr. Ambrose), the Commander of the Faithful (Amir al-Mu'mineen) who, according to Al-Tabari, took his oath in Jerusalem on the Torah ("the book of the covenant"). It was 'Umar too who commissioned the rebuilding of the Holy Sanctuary (Ka'ba) on the Temple Mount and handed it over to the Nazarene clergy to run. The Nazarene clergy remained there all the way until the Crusader times - when most likely the few remaining became Franciscan monks. The 'Umayyads were Nazarene - the Messianic Jews. The Abbasids were almost certainly not Arab at all. Their chief religious advisors were a family from today's Afghanistan - ex-Buddhists. When the Abbasids came on board, they reestablished the Petra Ka'ba that the Umayyads had abandoned (when the Jerusalem Ka'ba was built). Naturally the Petra Ka'ba did not have the Nazarene clergy. The Abbasids (starting c. 750 CE) then ensured that the Nazarene clergy had no further role to play in their flavor of the faith. However, under the Abbasid rule, most of the people that the Nazarenes had converted continued in that faith. These later on came to be called Sunni (those who were converted in the orthodox or Nazarene manner). Abbasids put a lot of of pressure on people belonging to other faiths (mainly Christian) living in their dominions to convert to their flavor of the faith. This was a one-second process - by reciting the 'I bear witness'. These newly converted came to be known as Shia (lit. those who followed).

@vicmath1005

2 ай бұрын

Abbasids created the story that they came from the family of the *Prophet.* The prophet was considered to have come come from the Quraysh 'nation', members of which resided around the Ka'ba location. So conveniently, the Abbasids claimed to have come from Jordan. Why Jordan? Because in 750 CE - the start of the Abbasid reign, the Ka'ba abandoned by the Nazarenes was in Petra (Jordan). It moved to the current location in Saudi only around 800 CE, as, with the move of the Nazarenes en-masse from Petra to Jerusalem, Petra would have been left with a few Christians (there used to be a Christian bishop there) and some pagan nomads. The Baghdad-based Abbasid administration would have found it logistically impossible to maintain Petra as a pilgrim-site. Note also the words Quraysh and Karaites (i.e. Messianic Jews, almost certainly a clan of the original Nazarenes) have identical root-word in Semitic languages, suggesting Quraysh were the same as Karaites who 'suddenly' appeared around the 8th century.

@kellyprell3206

Ай бұрын

References? ​@@vicmath1005

Your work is incredible. Thank you.

@IslamicOrigins

2 ай бұрын

Thank you very much! It is just a longest puzzle I've put my mind to. I've enjoyed the journey immensely.

@fantasia55

2 ай бұрын

credible, not incredible

@drummersagainstitk

2 ай бұрын

@@fantasia55 Depends. (In) not believable but in common speak, beyond credible speak. The same as FU but not having sex with you.

So Islam origins are in Jewish messianic movement of 6/7th century A.D. hoping to be saved from the Byzantine Christian empire. I would be interested in knowing an event and corresponding date that resulted in the "movement's" metamorphosis from Judaism into proto-Islam.

@vicmath1005

2 ай бұрын

750 CE! Umayyads were Nazarene (Messianic Jews). Abbasids defeated the Umayyads and assumed power in 749 CE and disowned the control the Nazarene clergy had on the faithful which included tax collection. Abbasids most likely came from Khorasan (today's Afghanistan). Their main religious advisors was an ex-Buddhist family from Afghanistan. Even today the Arabs say that Abbasids did not come from the prophet's tribe/nation. Believe it or not, I just read one comment yesterday on the matter!

@rev.brianlynch22

2 ай бұрын

@@vicmath1005 Amazing! Thank you.

Total aside: The Christian understanding is markedly different. Although there is much overlap of Messiah ben Joseph and Jesus, we obviously think of him as the Son of David. Yet the conquering king motif the Jews have for ben David hasn’t happened. I think our understanding is that aspect of Messianic prophecy will be manifest at the Second Coming. But maybe also some of it is understood as a spiritual battle winning souls to Christ, and that is a conquest albeit not entirely the same way as David reigned.

Imagine one day the muslims find out that they never had a god but they were crazy in love with a jewish liniage of rulers called exilarchs sure sounds like a mystery religion to me

Thank you for your research, Mel!

The thing that struck me is that when you read that the lord is a young man immediately I remembered that somewhere in the Islamic sources it says that their lord is a beardless young man with curly hair wow I can now understand how it might of started

150 million people bear the name Muhammad in 2024 that a lot of praised ones.

This is very interesting research. Thanks for digging deep. Where are you going to seek these sources? Someday make a video about all your sources itself.

Can't wait for your own book ...!!!! we need this👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

An earlier incarnation of the fallen/failed 1666 messiah Sabbatai Zevi?

Elagabalus's family held hereditary rights to the priesthood of the sun god Elagabal, of whom Elagabalus was the high priest at Emesa (modern Homs) in Roman Syria as part of the Arab Emesene dynasty.[22] The deity's Latin name, "Elagabalus", is a Latinized version of the Arabic إِلٰهُ الْجَبَلِ Ilāh al-Jabal, from ilāh ("god") and jabal ("mountain"), meaning "God of the Mountain",[23] the Emesene manifestation of Ba'al.[24] Is this Wikipedia paragraph saying that Allah, to the Syrian Arabs is Ba’al?

@fantasia55

2 ай бұрын

yes, the name Elagabalus refers to Baal.

Thank for sending down another Rabbit hole. However this time you might have stumbled of gold. Just coming off a video by Rabbi Tovia on the subject. If some his the things he is saying today existed within Rabbinic circles during the 7th century i can see how Islam could have been a push of a new messianic age.

Mel with the saana manuscript being a palemcest, what is the possibility that the undertext could be sourced from one of these previous MHMDs / exilarchs

This spawn of Satan idea has got another version that satan would impregnate a nun to produce the Anti christ. The rock of Elagabalus might be in the inspiration for this one. But that may be wrong. Messiah Ben Joseph was thought of as a shepherd rock so a type of symmetry was required to add meaning to the story.

@alanx4121

2 ай бұрын

The omen popularized it

Am I correct in thinking that the Jewish calendar disagrees with the Christian calendar in terms of the number of years following the destruction of the first temple? My recollection is that they lost several hundred years of their history after Rome destroyed Jerusalem and burned the Jewish scrolls. If this isn't just my imagination, how would that affect the 990 year period after the first temple was destroyed? If the 990 year prophesuy came before the point in time when the calendar got messed up, then there's no issue. But if the 990 year prophesy came later, then the prediction of the messiah in the 630's would be mistaken.

@ingoschneuing1073

2 ай бұрын

Indeed, their calendar is messed up. According to revelations of our Saviour Jesus Christ, He was born at midnight of January 7th, 4151 since the appearance of Adam on this earth. Instead of their 5784 we are living in the year 6175.... a 391 year difference.

@Friedrichsen

2 ай бұрын

​@@ingoschneuing1073Adam was 130 years old when Seth was born and so our year is pretty close to 6,000 since the Fall of Adam and Eve. Even if you don't take these numbers as literal historical it could still have a prophetic aspect in the sense that we are at the end of the sixth millenium and awaiting the sabbath millenium. The millenium of Christ.

So Nehmiah ben Hushel captured Jerusalem in 614, was dethroned by Persians in 617. Even though dethroned he stayed in Jerusalem until the Byzantine recapture of Jeruslaem in 629. He was executed by Heraculis. After him the Messiah ben David (Shallum or some Ammi-el / Umar) took over the Messianic Jews leadership to recapture Jerusalem as per the chronicles? Armilus being Son of Stone is a reference to Roman Christianity being children of Peter the Rock I think. Armilus is Byzantine Christianity as whole not a person Heraculis I think.

@IslamicOrigins

2 ай бұрын

I think Nehemiah was actually killed in 617. Strangely, one variant says killed by the Byzantines, the other by the Persians.

Hey do you know about Manicheanism could be that the Quranic corpus was some sort of Gnostic manuscript that the Arabs wrote down but later it become syncretic and got mixed with other late antiquity traditions and mythologies to create the Quranic corpus as we know it today.

Among all the other outstanding conclusions that we can draw from your work, I just had another one. Regardless of whether people want to accept your basic theses, we have a refutation of the narrative that the Jewish nation was a defeated and downtrodden people since the fall of the Second Temple. Jews were clearly a strong, cohesive and active community throughout the Middle East, North Africa, Europe and Asia. The elite of the society had military and financial powers equal to any other group of the time. No disrespect to the lives of the poor members of these communities but one might say that there is a bit of a victimhood standard narrative in the accepted Jewish history.

Its all about the Talmudic Juice 😅

Hi.Potential issue is,the portrait of Exilarch,is not including Muhammad who is the claimed quran recipient who is undersood as white as in white. A bit like the Iranian leader.some of them are whitish.

@asifbrettishmaelmakki9

2 ай бұрын

Yeshua bin David and Yeshua bin Joseph. Yeshua bin Joseph is Jesus. Yeshua bin David 👈 I thought that could be Jesus's dad who's Joseph. IE Jesus and Joseph are called Yeshua 👈 it's just an idea.

This is very clinical. Does this kind of information go over your audiences head? That quip at the world being illiterate is poignant. The etymology of “spell” attests to that.

@IslamicOrigins

2 ай бұрын

Things like Messiah Ben Joseph went over my head too. I saw I had a quotation about it from months ago but didn't see it's relevance until now. People get it at their own pace and time. As long as I don't lose them entirely in the complexity..

Maybe the Kaaba was some sort of 3rd Jewish temple like the second temple.

so , can omar be the son of nehemiah ben hushiel ?

Rakkat islamic prayer or what is that?

@IslamicOrigins

2 ай бұрын

Maybe that's where they got the word from.

Armilus = Amr/Umar?

@IslamicOrigins

2 ай бұрын

Considering that it is clearly about Heraclius I doubt it but the closeness in names is remarkable.

Haha, Messiahs, like monarchies have ever worked for anyone but the monarchs. Some people just never develop over time, stuck in a time warp of the bad old days.

Messiah Ben Joseph and David are literally the 2 beasts of revelation. The false prophet and the anti christ.

@ailove313

Ай бұрын

Isn't Nero the 666 ?

@davor6966

Ай бұрын

@@ailove313 didd Nero cause everyone to wear the mark on their right hand or forehead?

@ailove313

Ай бұрын

@@davor6966 I don't know but what I read is his name in Hebrew is 666 and he persecuted Christian during his reign.

@davor6966

Ай бұрын

@@ailove313 you should read more into it if you don't know then. Please show me where Nero forces everyone to wear the mark on their right hand or forehead.

@ailove313

Ай бұрын

@@davor6966 i don't know. The video title say Exilarch Nehemiah Ben Husiel not Messiah Ben Joseph.

what a load of crap. not a single evidence found of jews using the term muhammad to refer to the messiah, and yet you build theories upon something unsubstantiated. and naturally the jews would see the exilarch as the messiah, after all, the exilarchs are descendents of david and thus they are the legitimate potential kings - messiahs.

@IslamicOrigins

2 ай бұрын

Not a single piece of evidence? I've offered the Jewish use of mhmd - which is the term Muhammad is a later vocalisation - in an inscription 3 years after Exilarch Mar Zutra was killed in 520AD.

@moorek1967

2 ай бұрын

The throne of David is eternal, yes? The Messiah sits on that throne, yes? The Messiah is eternal, yes? There is a big difference in a messiah and THE Mashiach, which is pointing to a specific individual. As it says in Talmud Shabbat 31a אָמַר רָבָא: בְּשָׁעָה שֶׁמַּכְנִיסִין אָדָם לְדִין, אוֹמְרִים לוֹ: נָשָׂאתָ וְנָתַתָּ בָּאֱמוּנָה? קָבַעְתָּ עִתִּים לַתּוֹרָה? עָסַקְתָּ בִּפְרִיָּה וּרְבִיָּה? צִפִּיתָ לִישׁוּעָה? פִּלְפַּלְתָּ בְּחׇכְמָה? הֵבַנְתָּ דָּבָר מִתּוֹךְ דָּבָר? וַאֲפִילּוּ הָכִי, אִי יִרְאַת ה׳ הִיא אוֹצָרוֹ - אִין, אִי לָא - לָא. מָשָׁל לְאָדָם שֶׁאָמַר לִשְׁלוּחוֹ: הַעֲלֵה לִי כּוֹר חִיטִּין לָעֲלִיָּיה. הָלַךְ וְהֶעֱלָה לוֹ. אָמַר לוֹ: עֵירַבְתָּ לִי בָּהֶן קַב חוֹמְטוֹן? אָמַר לוֹ: לָאו. אָמַר לוֹ: מוּטָב אִם לֹא הֶעֱלֵיתָה. When a man is brought before the [heavenly] court he is asked: "Were you trustworthy in business? Did you set time for Torah [study]? Did you try to have kids? Did you hope for the Messiah? Did you argue intelligently? Did you understand things based on other things?" Pesach Haggadah, Majid, Story of the 5 rabbis אָמַר רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בֶּן־עֲזַרְיָה הֲרֵי אֲנִי כְּבֶן שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְלֹא זָכִיתִי שֶׁתֵּאָמֵר יְצִיאַת מִצְרַיִם בַּלֵּילוֹת עַד שֶׁדְּרָשָׁהּ בֶּן זוֹמָא, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר, לְמַעַן תִּזְכֹּר אֶת יוֹם צֵאתְךָ מֵאֶרֶץ מִצְרַיִם כֹּל יְמֵי חַיֶּיךָ. יְמֵי חַיֶּיךָ הַיָּמִים. כֹּל יְמֵי חַיֶּיךָ הַלֵּילוֹת. וַחֲכָמִים אוֹמְרִים יְמֵי חַיֶּיךָ הָעוֹלָם הַזֶּה. כֹּל יְמֵי חַיֶּיךָ לְהָבִיא לִימוֹת הַמָּשִׁיחַ: Rabbi Elazar ben Azaria said: I am almost seventy years old, and never have I merited to find the command to speak of the Exodus from Egypt at night - until Ben Zoma interpreted: It is written, “SO THAT YOU REMEMBER THE DAY OF YOUR EXODUS FROM EGYPT ALL THE DAYS OF YOUR LIFE.” “The days of your life” would mean in the days; “all the days of your life” includes the nights. But the sages say, “The days of your life” would mean only in this world; “all the days of your life” brings in the time of the Messiah. Messiah is used as a proper title, so they were not looking for an exilarch king, this particular individual has specific qualities. Sefaria . org "Mashiach Beliefs Mashiach (the Messiah) - literally "anointed one" - generally refers to a savior or liberator figure believed to be a future redeemer of Jews, who ushers in the messianic era. Generations of Jewish texts debate what the messianic era entails, as well as the role that belief in the Messiah should play in Jewish practice. In the Bible, the word mashiach is used to refer to kings or high priests, selected by God and anointed with oil. WHO anointed kings? The prophet Samuel anointed Saul and David both. There are no more prophets, therefore there can be no exilarch or king that can be anointed, so the Messiah MUST be anointed by a prophet. So if they are looking for a future Messiah, as opposed to just a king or exilarch, then that future Messiah was already anointed. According to the rabbis, this is what is said of the Messiah.. Vayikra Rabbah 14:1 For the opinion of Reish Lakish, there is the verse: [Genesis 1:2] "And the *spirit of God* wavered upon the water" - *that is the spirit of the king messiah* . Yikes, that would seem blasphemous as they have indicated the Messiah is the Spirit of God. Since the spirit of the Messiah is the spirit of God, which of any of the exilarchs had or will be the Spirit of God? They are not talking about exilarchs.

The thing is, your videos discuss topics that have no connections whatsoever to the religion of Islam. What Jewish patriarchs and Messianic cults have to do with Islam? Absolutely nothing! Islam is first and foremost an Arabian religion not Judeo-Christian. It's true that the Quran contains many biblical stories (e.g. Adam's création, Moses in Egypt, Jesus and Mary...) but those "biblical" stories are often skewed to be fitted into the Islamic doctrine and theology, it's very likely that those bible stories we find in the Quran are just borrowings stripped away from their Judeo-Christian theological context. My point is that to understand Islamic origines is to carefully analyse the Quranic text and to put it in its Arabian context and try to avoid any speculations or unnecessary connections which might just be imaginations. Though the identity of the person (MHMD; محمد) is till a mystery to me, but I have no doubt that he was an Arabian prophetic (or Messenger) figure and not a messiah in a Judeo-Christian sense. the prophets or the messengers in Islam have a clear mission: to guide the unbelievers and sinners to the right path of God and to make them submit to the Lord's will so that they may succeed on this earth (prosperity and wellbeing) and the hereafter (garden of Eden). The problems I still struggle with personally in regards to the origin of Islam are: 1. Where exactly did the Messager of Islam preach his new religion? The Quran doesn't give you much details about its geography. 2. When did the prophet actually start preaching? The Quran is equally ignorant of the time of the events. 3. What are the Muhājirin and Al-Ansār and what was their role in foundation of the new religion? 4. Why doesn't the Quran address close friends of the prophet by name (Ali, Omar, Uthman...)? It makes you question if those "friends" actually lived with prophet of the Quran. 5. Does the Quran have a single author? And what is the identity of the prophet Ahmed in the Quran and is he the same person as Mohamed? In my opinion all of these problems need to be answered to better understand the religion of Islam and its historical context.

@johnathanmaweu5550

11 күн бұрын

Most have been answered;i think you don't perceive the answers.An arabic prophet named muhammad of mecca never existed in history

@bourbon4707

7 күн бұрын

Ahmad in the Qur'an is Holy Spirit in the book of Acts chapter 2