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@hugotharador4898

4 жыл бұрын

I would switch strength or dexterity modifier weapon bonus to intelligence modifier. It fits more thematically, being a wizard.

@natemitchell7812

4 жыл бұрын

What do you think about making the lvl 14 ability a lvl 10 skill instead of song of defence and Master's flourish and flourish abilities from Swords Bard or vise versa Ive been trying to think of how I can make it into a bard subclass a true magic performer

@natemitchell7812

4 жыл бұрын

@@hugotharador4898 just take a 1 dip in hexblade for that at lvl 14 you get your int mod on top of your other mod so its not worth it to swap it around

@Michael-tc5ff

3 жыл бұрын

So as a 16th level Bladesinger I can explain why none of these fixes work. 1. You can Bladesong with a Handcrossbow. Everything should just say one handed weapon. 2. Your armor is always from Mage Armor. So the additive intelligence stacks. Bladesong is amazing. A recalculation will not. 3. Your reaction is always used for Shield or Absorb Elements so Song of Defense in any form is silly because you're only using a level 1 Spell Slot. Later you have Spell Mastery Shield anyway!! 4. Adding Int damage forces you to use two weapons. You need a spell focus. Also Xbow Singer never uses 2 weapons. The class needs to just be slightly more open ended. Here are fixes for Bladesinger!! 1. At level 2 you also gain proficiency with any one handed weapon of your choice. You can use Int for attack and damage rolls with this weapon. 2. Change Song of Defense to a party buff- whenever you have Bladesong active all allies within 15' gain +2 AC. (Including you) 3. Song of Victory - Bladesong can now be used 3 times per short rest and you add your Int modifier to any one of your damage dice rolls. This can only be done while Bladesong is active and only once per round. This makes the Bladesinger generally better with a but more utility for both Melee, Ranged, Party Utility, and Casting, while making it less MAD and less of a class that has an identity crisis. It also retains the spirit of the class abilities and just makes Bladesinger a very good but otherwise very expensive class.

@Charles-ij1ow

2 жыл бұрын

Using dual wielding at level 5 you can Booming Blade then Shadow Blade attack with off hand. Then level 6 with 2 attacks Booming Blade / Shadow Blade / off hand Shadow Blade. Does this work within the rules?

So one thing I noticed is that, with exception of the level 14 ability, you could totally be a hand crossbow bladesinger or a throwing bladesinger and still gain all of the benefits of the class. Edit: Even better, depending on the setting you could use a pistol. Now I need to play as a wizard who casts gun.

@kellyweaver8422

4 жыл бұрын

The downside is that you lose out on the booming blade and green flame blade cantrips because of the melee weapon and 5' requirements.

@knightghaleon

4 жыл бұрын

Ethereal Dugong the throwing knife style sounds fun.

@scottrife5548

4 жыл бұрын

If only the rules for wand sheaths and the "wand strike" feat (3.5) existed in 5e and actually were better for us.. This could be truly fun!

@blackfang0815

3 жыл бұрын

Yes. Wizard With a Gun!

@Cdre_Satori

Жыл бұрын

Master has given dobby a glock

Wizards of the coast: "I'll do it myself"

@jackdizzy123

3 жыл бұрын

Lol

I legit think WotC should just take the Battlerager (for Barbarian), Purple Dragon Knight (for Fighter), the Way of the Long Death (for Monk), the Undying (for Warlock), and the Bladesinger (for Wizard), rework them all, and reprint them in a book with other new content.

@NerdImmersion

4 жыл бұрын

I agree!

@keeganmbg6999

4 жыл бұрын

Other than the purple Dragon Knight I love the Flavor of all of the other Subclasses listed and wish we would get some good reworks/reprints of them.

@maxx8362

4 жыл бұрын

Yes!

@knightghaleon

4 жыл бұрын

Bayley Farrell yes. I have yet to see a single Purple Dragon Knight or Undying warlock

@riccardocorradini6713

4 жыл бұрын

is way of the long death really that bad? i don't see why that clearly (sure it is not super flashy, but does not seem weak at first sight)

One of my players created a bladesinger and played him like Yoda. Old elf out of combat, but insanely maneuverable and hard to hit in combat.

I played a Bladesinger from 1-20 in a recent campaign, and it was a ton of fun. I think you're overlooking the value in the Song of Defense ability -- don't see it as a waste of spell slots, see it as a pool of up to 470 extra hitpoints. Focus your spell choice on rituals/utility spells, and go all in on melee. If you can get your hands on a scimitar of speed, you're golden. The thing that really boosts your damage output is that none of the Bladesinger-specific class abilities count as casting spells. So if you are making use of a spell or ability that prevents you from casting spells, such as Tenser's Transformation, you can still access these abilities, including the song of defense. And this pairs with an AC approaching 30, especially if you use your at will spell options at high level for shield & misty step. IMO, the problems with the class are: the racial limitation, the limited use of bladesong, and low level survivability. Once you Song of Defense, you're untouchable as a tank.

@BraveryBeyond

4 жыл бұрын

This is the type of insight that's often sorely lacking when someone tries to fix a class or subclass. Too often discussions revolve around optional rules (feats, multiclass, etc.) and not around the base rule set. This analysis definitely helps more than I believe most will appreciate, so thank you! If you've got some spare time, could I pick your brain about a redesign for Bladesong? *Bladesong* Starting at 2nd level, you can invoke a secret elven magic called the Bladesong to bolster yourself with a spell’s residual magic. It graces you with supernatural speed, agility, and focus. When you cast a spell of 1st level or higher, you may begin the Bladesong provided you aren’t wearing medium or heavy armour or using a shield. While your Bladesong is active, you gain the following benefits according to the spell level used: - 1st level: You gain a bonus to your armour class equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of +1) - 2nd level: You gain temporary hit points equal to your wizard level - 3rd level: You gain a bonus to any Constitution saving throw you make to maintain your concentration on a spell equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of +1) - 4th level: Any longsword you weild is treated as having finesse - 5th level: Your walking speed increases by 10 feet and you no longer provoke opportunity attacks when leaving an enemy’s reach The Bladesong lasts for 1 minute. If you cast a spell during an active Bladesong, it gains all benefits that would be granted for casting at a spell level higher than the currently active Bladesong (minimum of +1). The Bladesong ends early if you are incapacitated or if you don medium or heavy armour or a shield.

@kylestanley7843

4 жыл бұрын

@@BraveryBeyond I really like these concepts, as long as it's made clear that the bonuses stack. I also think the 4th level one is too niche, since not every bladesinger will use a longsword. I think it would be better if it were "any one handed melee weapon you are wielding is treated as having the finesse quality."

Just a note, but +1hp/lvl is the equivalent of going from a d6 to d8 hit die (average roll of a d6 is 3.5, average roll of d8 is 4.5)

@whitleypedia

4 жыл бұрын

Yes - but slightly less if you're healing with hit die. But only slightly.

@sipjedekat8525

4 жыл бұрын

If you cast false life, you add 5 hp per two lvls beginning at 1st, assuming highest spell slot. That effectively raises the d6 to a d10 on average. 3.5 hp per lvl to 6. If you're going melee bladesinger, you should be prepared to sacrifice spell slots to enhance combat imho. At higher levels spell slots become more rare so you might not cast it at the highest alot, but even then it really mitigates the squishiness.

Elven chain used to be considered light armor. Technically you can still wear it without medium armor proficiency. Since they mention the different “styles” in the SCAG, you’d think they’d give you a fighting style as to better represent that.

@Shalakor

4 жыл бұрын

A Fighting Style would be great, and including the ones that are still only UA, you've got about all the flavor of bladesinger styles talked about in the blurb now. Replace the skill proficiency with a fighting style (or alongside the choice of Acrobatics or Performance), maybe include the +1 HP per Wizard level boost (or a way of gaining temp HP as part of bladesong, but either option isn't really needed, so I'd probably disregard, particularly with my other change ideas), but then take away some of the bladesong features as they are now and spread them out as enhancements to the bladesong at later subclass levels so it's not brokenly front-loaded. (Mostly should cover what it does now at sixth level, so probably move the advantage to Acrobatics and Concentration saving throw bonus to level 6. Or, if adding all bladesong eligible weapons can be used with Dex, keep concentration benefit at level 2 and move the AC bonus to level 6, since it can be pretty broken as a 2 level wizard dip multiclassing. Technically, bladesong stacks with barbarian rage and unarmored defense, or monk.) Since I'm already here, one way I think setup could be made a bit less painful and mimic the speediness of 3.5 without granting quickened spellcasting is by changing the activation method of bladesong. Replacing the current bonus action method, you instead would only be able to activate bladesong as part of the the action of casting a spell of 1st level or higher with a casting time of 1 bonus action or 1 reaction (and maybe also when casting a cantrip, though the idea of not being able to activate bladesong when you're out of spell slots is somehow appealing to the flavor of still being a wizard to me... regardless, being able to activate alongside a reaction spell is a huge benefit for when you lose out on initiative and have to throw up a Shield or Absorb Elements to not die). For Song of Defense, have it literally negate critical hit damage (scoring the critical hit is still a successful hit regardless) as a passive effect (or require an easy to make flat Acrobatics check, like DC 15, since crits are rare enough that it's not adding too much extra rolling to do so) while bladesong is active. Still has the really cool flavor of deftly deflecting vital strikes but in a mechanically different way from how other classes protect themselves for the most part. Also, while it covers fewer situations, it frees up your reaction for spellcasting/opportunity attack threat. Also +1 bladesong usage per rest at level 10. Go ham at level 14 and have Song of Victory apply Int to both attack and damage, or choice of applying it to one or the other each attack. (Possibly add activating bladesong when casting a cantrip here. Totally pointless at as far as running out of spell slots goes, but it would make the level FEEL more stacked. Alternatively, just make it when you cast any spell with a casting time of 1 action, including cantrips.)

Good news! The new Tasha's book evidently has a rework of the bladesinger in it.

I prefer playing a mix of the two 'styles' switching depending on the situation. The spell slot for reduced damage I feel is more for concentration checks, or a last ditch don't go down.

@americanexistentialist4756

4 жыл бұрын

agreed, I'm playing a blade-singer right now and the ability to switch styles has felt crucial to our party's survival as the traditional "backline" is actually an adequate frontliner, protecting the rest of the backliners from ambush. I think he's forgetting you have a lot of spell slots by level 10 and you aren't going to be able to use them all in a single fight: song of defense gives you a way to burn through your spell slots extra quickly say in a duel or a last-combat-before-rest scenario where the tempo of the fight is much more important than conserving your strength for value.

@Wanderingsage7

4 жыл бұрын

As a dm, I'd make a check to see if the opponents would be frightened if you reduce the damage to 0.

@arthilas_

4 жыл бұрын

@@americanexistentialist4756 I play my bladesinger like that as well, but I usually take the Mobile feat, so that I can just run in, drop some attacks and get back out without having to worry about opportunity attacks. With Mobile, Longstrider and Haste, my speed becomes 120ft, which allows me to basicially be everywhere on the battlefield.

I use Shadowblade from Xanathars. Really improves ya damage output, is finesse and scales well

@riccardocorradini6713

4 жыл бұрын

Haste is crealy better for improving both damage and defense though

@riccardocorradini6713

4 жыл бұрын

@@Jk-zv6tz well shadowblade can be Better damage Wise depending on the context. If you up-casted It, and are in an obsured area, you could profit from advantage and do some serious critfishing with Elven accuracy to double all that dice. But haste has a defensive potential and flexibility that are Simply unvaluable

@riccardocorradini6713

4 жыл бұрын

@@Jk-zv6tz you do not neet a fighter dip to dual-wield though

@p.chavez2839

4 жыл бұрын

@@Jk-zv6tz Explain me how Haste blow shadowblade damage wise? If you have a powerful magic weapon, maybe, or used on an ally that can do great damage on one hit like a Barbarian or a Rogue, sure. But on yourself is an action attack for what, 1d8+DEX? At that spell level shadowblade does 3d8 aka 2d8 extra per hit, at 6th level with your second attack thats a potential 4d8 extra damage vs 1d8+DEX from haste. Say instead you go for GFB, thats 2d8+Dex from GFB + 1d8+DEX from haste = 3d8+2xDEX. (+1d8+INT to another target), meanwhile shadowblade (at third level) using your two attacks is 6d8+2xDEX. You could dual wield after grabbing warcaster, but it applies to both damage outputs so it doesn't change anything, and taking a dip on fighter slows your spell progression (may be worth it, but you're paying a price for it) The only case scenario you're better hasted is if you're going all out and using all your actions for spells. But at that point wasting your concentration to do (potential) 2d8+2xDEX max is an absolute waste, you're going to be much better casting it on the Barb/Pally/Rogue, using slow/hypnotic patter/Earth Grasp/Storm sphere/a bunch of other spells Haste is better to buff your party, it's substantially great on yourself (if you could really use that extra AC and adv dex saving throws, if you really need your action for something particular), but Shadowblade covers the "Don't need to go all out, bladesong is enough protection, just gotta deal good damage" niche much, much better than haste

@p.chavez2839

4 жыл бұрын

@@Jk-zv6tz You're cherrypicking the data in two ways, first but not that importat is that Shadowblade doesn't stop you from using an off hand attack, which you assumed to be a +2 weapon too, that bumbs your 7th level shadowblade to 10d8+1d6+32=80 average damage. But sure, once you get song of victory things change, but that's exactly the biggest cherry pick. a)Most of the game happens on the 1-12th range b)Even if you have game that will reach 20th level, that's 14th levels where you don't have song of victory c)Unless you're party is full of casters, you're not a priority to get magic weapons So, what happens on the 6th to 12th range, where most of the gameplay will happen? Without a magic weapon you get: Haste, 4d6+15 or an average 25 damage, +3 if you get a +1 magic weapon Shadowblade 6d8+1d6+10 or an average of 40 damage, or a 60% increase for the same spell slot (or 43% if you got the magic weapon) Haste gets absolute blow out of the water by shadowblade at those levels. Cherrypicking 14th-20th is the worst cherrypick: most gameplay happens before that So no, haste doesn't blow shadowblade

My changes would be: "Trained in war and song" would give the choice of using your int modifier instead of dex or str to your attacks, just like battlesmith artificer. The unarmored defense you mentioned is a good idea, but I would give no extra hitpoints, and instead, this effect would be persistent outside of the bladesong. This is a wizard, and for a wizard to be a melee fighter should be a meaningful choice with drawbacks, you would be harder to hit, but each hit you take would be a chunk. At level 6, instead of giving an extra attack, it would make all weapon attacks magical, for the purpose of overcoming resistances. Additionally, I would give a bonus action based smite-like effect with a d6 basic damage, and +1d6 for spell-slot level used, with the option of using any of the 5 main elements for the damage(fire, cold, lightning, thunder and acid); For lvl 10, uncanny dodge seems fine I guess, but I would give the option to automatically succeed in a save to escape magical effects if you expend a spell slot, with a limit of how many times you can do that in a day; For level 14, the always on bladesong seems good enough.

Loved this vid because I was interested in BSinger. Appreciate the courtesy of the notification of when the class changes start but enjoyed the overview of the discussions around it's role in the party/play style too. Subscribed :).

I have never played this and I really appreciate you breaking it down so well.

As I look at this class, first thing that came to my mind is this - Rapiers as they do d8 damage and are a finesse weapon. Next thing that came to my mind, there's three core subraces of elves (High, Wood, Drow) and the half-elves. Now I'm thinking of three Bladesinger elves who use rapiers to fight for justice, and then there's this half-elf tagalong who wants to be part of the group, as their father had once been part of the group.

Since half the people I see say its OP, and half the people I see say its UP, its probably just balanced and I'm not quite sure if it needs fixing. Though maybe it could indeed use a "fix" in terms of fitting in with how some players imagine the class plays out, since it plays out more like a defensive wizard that occasionally can use the attack action if needed, than a swordmage.

@Exisist5151

4 жыл бұрын

MrSlutzkin I think the way it’s built fills the niche it needs to fill. If you want to play a Swordmage that leans more towards fighter, that’s what Eldritch knight is for. Just compare this to valor bard to see how good it is for a martial add-on. It’s fine as it currently stands because of how easy it is to maximize AC. I don’t have a problem with the insane AC stacking (though it is insane and it should never appear on a hexblade-like class or dear god help us) because this doesn’t have any inherent bonuses to saving throws or ways to mitigate that damage outside of more spell slots. And yeah, I remember seeing on a forum once, “as a bladesinger you can definitely function in melee, but leave the strongest enemies to the martial characters.” To those that think it’s overpowered: If going by what’s written, there’s no fighting style that lets you use a rapier. So they have to follow more rigid guidelines such as having to use a Str based longsword, use a shortsword and be focused on illusion/stealth, or use a scimitar and focus on defense.

@scottrife5548

4 жыл бұрын

@@Exisist5151 I actually like it with Echo knight to fill in a more "skirmisher" role. Able to bounce in and out of combat. You can dump a lot of damage and then move to range to engage with spells. It also fills the void of not having quicken (action surge) and subtle spell when grappled (echo bamf). I like that you can use the echo to position yourself safely to dump cone and line spells (without dumping misty step spell slots) and also have a way to drop massive chained damage without relying on AOEs that hit team mates (steel wind strike or using shadow blade).

@Exisist5151

4 жыл бұрын

Scott Rife That’s using 2 subclasses that are supposed to be very rare from 2 different setting books. If your DM allows it, then go ahead that’d be amazing. Me personally as a DM I don’t really understand a double exotic subclass multiclass unless you somehow found training.

@nightdrivenen7909

3 жыл бұрын

@@Exisist5151 According to D&D beyond, it lets you choose a melee weapon to be proficient...Which means you can always just choose Rapier and you are good to go from the off set. Wizards just don't start with one if you don't get starting gold.

@Exisist5151

3 жыл бұрын

@NightDriven En7 There’s no actual restrictions based on what you want to do for a bladesinger in the mechanics. The restrictions I was talking about were lore based. Because yeah, if there were no restrictions everyone would just choose a rapier every time and that’s lame (especially since almost all Bladesingers use slashing weapons, with a few notable exceptions). I know that happens at some tables but I like the thought processes my players go through to see which weapon+limited spell combo will be best for their build rather than just have an obvious best choice.

In earlier editions(2nd edition), bladesingers and blade song were technically separate. You could be a normal elvish fighter or mage and have the bladesong feature, which was normally something dm's were apprehensive of even letting them have. Bladesingers just took it to the next level. Give acrobatics and performance skills proficiency as well as 2 hit point plus 1 a level as mentioned in the video. To convert to 5e and to appease lore and still make it useful, change blade song into a feat, still requiring being Elf or Half elf and proficiency in light armor and a one handed weapon. Then 2nd level ability make it path of the blade song: give the Blade song feat for free (replace a feat or get ASI if you already have this feat) then give additional benefit that can use Medium armor that doesn't have stealth penalties in addition and allow use of intelligence modifier instead of Dex or Str modifier when using a 1 handed weapon for attack and damage. Also Bladesinger's always have on blade song while having a 1 handed weapon in their hands and not incapacitated while feat alone needs to activate as bonus action and last the 1 minute as stated originally. Level 6 ability: Blades of Magic You can target 1 additional target if they are within reach when casting a spell that is less than or equal to your intelligence modifier that requires a melee spell attack or melee attack. It must be a different target. Using this feature uses up your bonus action. You can use this feature a number of times per a long rest equal to your intelligence modifier. Also you add your 1 handed weapon damage to all spells that require a melee spell attack. This give them like specialized twin spells limited amount of time if they use melee spell attacks but they need to use bonus action to utilize. Gives flavor of extra attack while still feels like a caster while not stepping on toes of Eldritch Knight or War Caster features. Song of Defense: When hit with attack, if your reaction is available you can reduce damage by your intelligence modifier. Once per long rest you may use your reaction to reduce damage from a weapon/spell attack or spell by a value equal to your wizard level (plus intelligence if it's a weapon/spell attack per usual). If you wish to use this feature again must expend a spell slot of 1st level or higher. Each time you use this feature additionally requires a higher spell slot to do again. For example 10th Bladesinger reduces damage of an attack by 15 (10 levels of wizard + 5 from intelligence), next round he uses his reaction again reducing the damage by 15 again, expending a 1st level spell slot. If he wishes to use again the following round he would then need to use a 2nd level spell slot or higher to perform. Song of Victory: Your critical threat range increases to 19-20 for melee attacks made as part of a spell (whether they are spell attacks or weapon attacks doesn't matter). You gain temporary hit point equal to the spell's slots level used plus your intelligence modifier if you successfully critical on a spell that requires a melee spell attack or melee weapon attack. These temporary hit points only last a number of rounds equal to your Intelligence modifier. I think this captures the essence of the class links there weapon attacks to their magic in a more organic way while also helping mitigate the dangers of being in the fray of combat. If you wanted to make a restriction due to how awesome the above is make them sacrifice knowledge of a school of magic at 2nd level (other than divination) as an offset needed to focus on their technique. Bring back some of the hurt from 2nd edition :P

Really enjoyed all the in depth discussion.

Loved your fixes to Bladesinger. I am currently running a hybrid of bladesinger and mutant blood hunter (2020) using a similar revised version. Playing him very sith like. My fixes, modified after watching this video, are listed below. Training in War and Song When you adopt this tradition at 2nd level, you gain proficiency with light armor, and you gain proficiency with one type of one-handed melee weapon of your choice. Additionally your hit point maximum increases by 2, and it increases by 1 again whenever you gain a level in this class. Bladesong Starting at 2nd level, you can invoke a secret elven magic called the Bladesong, provided that you aren't wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield. It graces you with supernatural speed, agility, and focus. You can use a bonus action to start the Bladesong, which lasts for 1 minute. It ends early if you are incapacitated, if you don medium or heavy armor or a shield, or if you use two hands to make an attack with a weapon. You can also dismiss the Bladesong at any time you choose (no action required). While your Bladesong is active, you gain the following benefits: • You gain a bonus to your AC equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of +1). • Your walking speed increases by 10 feet. • You have advantage on Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks. • You gain a bonus to any Constitution saving throw you make to maintain your concentration on a spell. The bonus equals your Intelligence modifier (minimum of +1). You can use this feature twice. You regain all expended uses of it when you finish a short or long rest. Extra Attack Beginning at 6th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Song of Defense Starting at 10th level, while your bladesong is active and an attacker that you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to halve the attack’s damage against you. Song of Fury At 14th level, you have mastered the art of weaving spellcasting and weapon use into a single harmonious act. While your Bladesong is active and you use your action to cast a wizard spell, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action. Additionally, you add your Intelligence modifier (minimum of +1) to the damage of your melee weapon attacks while your Bladesong is active.

False Life is your friend. One of the main arguments I hear about Bladesinger is they don't have enough HP. I think everyone forgets about False Life. Just upcast it and you will have as much HP as any other party member.

I'm starting a Fantasy High style campaign with some friends, and I'm playing a Wizard with the intent of taking the Bladesinger subclass. One thing I did to boost the idea of the hitdice going up was take the Tough Feat and give myself some decent Con as a Varient Human (homebrew setting) and now I'm one of the beefier characters health wise while we're at 1st level. It was really cool to look into this video and get some insight an history on the previous versions of the Bladesinger, and hear about what some of the pros and cons of it are as a pathway for my idea of a melee spellcaster. I may end up going back and forth with my DM on some of the proposed fixes, but I think overall between the original class and this video along with any feats or multiclassing I might do, I will be able to make a character I'm really excited to play!

I'm planning on playing a bladesinger for an upcoming campaign so this is an awesome video, perfect timing. Personally was going to do an evocation wizard / eldritch knight multiclass but wanted more powerful spellcasting, so I decided to try out bladesinger. the 1 level in fighter looks like itll make a huge difference so i think my final design will go the same route. Thanks for going into this much detail tho, it sure helped me!

I absolutely love playing this subclass. I use a level 3 Shadow blade and with the two attacks that the bladesinger gets along with the bonus in concentration it's pretty clutch 🤘🤘🤘 stacking mage armor with the blade song is also frustrating for my DM lol

Very cool video!!! Can't wait to play one!!!

I recently multi classed a Bladesinger with a Light Cleric. Went for a melee style build, with war caster and dual wielding. Always took 2 or 3 turns to get fully "set up" with personal buffs and/or battlefield control. Keeping up with managing 2 full spellcasting classes was a lot, but that was a fun build! I used the Eladrin race, and the Fey step ability helped a lot getting into or out of combat quickly. At level 12 I had a max AC of 28 (bladesong, haste, shield) and using the cleric ability Warding Flare I could impose disadvantage on attack roles against me

I made a bladesinger /arcane trickster and had a ton of fun. It was a great ac tank and melee controller. Sneak attacking and booming blade sometimes 2 times a round and pinning enemies next to me so they had to attack me. Tons of fun. I remember having to fight like 7 giants at once and dodging my parties fireballs while dodging almost every attack from these giants. Ac high af. I've never seen a huge problem with bladesinger. If you get a good weapon it's beneficial to attack instead of cantriping and there are a couple good spells to give you bonus actions with your spells that help you feel more like you're a sword and sorcery bamf. I like the song of defense because it helps you maintain concentration on your haste or tensers transformation or shadowblade or whatever you're doing to get the extra damage. I don't like making the bladesong a static effect like the monks unarmored defense because I think a bladesinger with a robe of the archmagi should get all the benefits.

The best use of bladesinger I've seen was multiclassed with 3 levels of barbarian, giving unarmored defense the damage deduction from rage give survivability. Also it gives you options if you think higher ac will be enough you can enter blade song and then you'll have ac 10 +dex + con + int but if you think it might be a rough fight you can rage as well and add the damage reduction. Using non concentration spells like fire shield, blink, crown of stars, soul cage all can be used while raging. The idea of a raging barbarian blinking in and out of existence is quite scary. And when not raging you still a beastly wizard and with only 3 levels of barbarian you still get access to 9th level spell slots if you play that long

To fix Bladesingers, I'd increase the number of uses to equal to your INT modifier and mix Song of Victory into the level 2 feature. It encourages players to get into melee more often instead of relegating the feature to a panic button. Level 14 would make Blade Song a permanent passive ability. As is, I multiclass with Battlesmith Artificer to cover the weaknesses of the Bladesinger; namely, the risk of crits. I use my Steel Defender's Deflect Attack reaction to force disadvantage on enemy attack. Plus, Battlesmiths effectively get the Singer features at earlier levels (INT modifier and Steel Defender at level 3 and Ex attack at level 5). I can still play as the dodge tank and I'm bulkier for when I rarely take damage. The trade off is the limited spell list (18Artificer/2Wizard) but if that's too heavy a cost, simply play 17W/3A instead.

I think the problem with your proposed changes is that your version will still have the bladesinger as a defensive wizard without some kind of boost to melee with their chosen weapon. (I actually think they should have to give up range weapons etc as they had to in 2e as part of the reason to boost melee). In addition adding war magic, while merging some magic with melee, will chew up the bonus action and kill spells like animate objects, flaming sphere etc and will make it bonus action spells more difficult to use with less pay off depending on which way you go. I like the addition to hps, and I would move song of victory to 10th level, and replace song of defense with your proposal of having bladesong always be active at 14. That would demonstrate mastery of bladesong at higher levels and allow them to stay in melee longer.

I would've thought that the School of Necromancy would've been the Wizard subclass to get fixed. I don't dislike Bladesinger as it is right now. You don't get a whole lot from it, but proficiency in armor for a Wizard is always great, and I can't in good faith call it "Bad" when it has that going for it.

@NerdImmersion

4 жыл бұрын

I've really had no one ask for a Necromancy fix at this point, but an overwhelming amount of people asking for bladesinger

@NutronicAtomic

4 жыл бұрын

I'd also like to point out that light armor (not magical) still isn't as good as mage armor. combined with arcane recovery you won't feel that loss of a lvl 1 spell slot all that much between long rests imo.

@kaemonbonet4931

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, the armor proficiency isn't overwhelmingly great. If it were you'd see more dwarf or hogboblin wizards, they get medium armor. Unfortunately not shields but that's ok.

@NutronicAtomic

4 жыл бұрын

@@kaemonbonet4931 yeah, personally I think giving some of these gish classes shield proficiency over armor would go over better.

@gliscaradu1424

4 жыл бұрын

@@NerdImmersionreally? Damn it, I've been slacking in my crusade of asking youtubers to help the poor necromancer

Mobile feat is great for Bladesingers. No opportunity attacks means you can get into melee without getting stuck there (and the +10 movement speed doesn't hurt either). There's also a fun Hexblade Bladesinger stack at high levels. Using shortswords, you can add Dex, Intelligence, and Proficiency to the damage of every hit. Haste and attacking with your bonus action means you have 4 attacks, and around +14-16 damage to each hit at level 20.

My improvised fixes (these are literally the first things that came to mind watching the video, so they aren't balanced): -Extra Attack- *Song of Strike:* when you use your Action on your turn to take the Attack action or the Cast a Spell action to cast a Cantrip, you can make a melee weapon attack as part of the same action. _This basically combines the Extra Attack feature with that one (forgot the name) from the Eldritch Knight._ *Song of Defense:* when you take damage, you can use your Reaction to halve the damage taken and gain temporary hit points equal to that amount until the end of your next turn. While you have these temporary hit points, you can only cast Cantrips. _A little buff to vanilla Song of Defense while maintaining the sense of "using magic" to protect yourself, without expending spell slots._

@kylestanley7843

4 жыл бұрын

Uhhhh.... Halve incoming damage Then gain temp hp equal to the amount of damage negated So in other words you just completely negate that attack? 🤔

@SuikoRyos

4 жыл бұрын

@@kylestanley7843 Damage taken, not negated. Something hit you for 20 damage, you use your reaction, take 10 damage and then gain 10 THP.

Song of defense helps when u get that natural 20 against you. Reducing the crit is way stronger than uncanny dodge. What if it had two uses? You can also add the spell sacrificed to attack and damage rolls until the end of your next turn.

Honestly, what I like about the Bladesinger is that it allows a sort of stance system. It gives you two different playstyles in one class.

For song of Defense, I like the idea of temporary hitpoints. Whenever you cast a spell during bladesong, gain temp HP equal to twice the level of the spell. The wizard already has Shield and Absorb Elements as you mentioned, I don't think they need another reaction for soaking damage. Instead of Extra Attack, gain the ability to replace the attack roll of your spell attacks with a weapon attack roll. These two changes do a lot to encourage the Bladesinger to risk melee combat without stepping on the toes of the eldritch knight or the rogue. It might be closer to a Duskblade than the original Bladesinger, but I think it's a good fit for 5e action economy.

I've mentioned this before in a previous video, but I replace Performance with Acrobatics because you get advantage with those checks during blade song. I also replace the Extra Attack feature with the EK 7th level ability. This just makes more sense to me to keep the spellcasting but can also make an attack. I definitely like the idea of the monk martial arts using Dex for your chosen weapon no matter what it is. The power of the AC bonus stacks well with Mage Armor which is an AC calculation and so wouldn't work if you made it a monk like unarmored defense using Intelligence. As to the rest, I have a blade singer / rogue for the reasons you mention. Cunning Action is fantastic with being a melee caster without getting stuck in the thick of it. That more than Performance speaks to the dancing aspect.

I'm not an experienced dnd player, but I played a Bladesinger before. From what I heard the general take on these half-caster half-melee characters is that it's a good idea to take a melee class and give them magic, but not such a good idea to take a caster class and distract them from their powerful magic with weapon combat nonsense. That being said, I just really enjoyed the idea of playing a striker who could be like mist and move freely across the battlefield, intangible, always in control, and ready to unleash powerful magic when the enemy least expects it. So, for flavor this class hit all the marks, especially after combining it with the mobility feat. Even more speed, no difficult terrain penalty, and the ability to move quickly out of melee range, without risking opportunity attacks, just by striking an enemy (without having to even hit them.) Sadly I didn't play them long enough to really see how well the Song of Defense worked, but at least on paper it sounded great. It's like always having a reaction spell prepared that can use any remaining spell slot and reduce incoming damage (specifically for those cases where my substantial AC doesn't help) effectively giving me the ability to freely turn my spell slots into bonus hp exactly when needed (you're not going to use that fifth level spell slot for anything if you just had your hit points reduced to 0.) But yeah, because I didn't play that far I don't know how well it would have scaled. All that I'd really want from this, which you also mentioned, is a way to get more Bladesong. If I didn't miss anything, you get 2 uses out of it, so maybe 2 encounters, and then you need a short rest. That just feels kinda bad.

New watcher loved it, thank you

I should watch the first part as I was more interested in the changes you made in the video. I have been working on a revision of this and took some inspiration from the Dragoon Fighter from the XLNtEE on DMs guild. The idea of gaining different effects based on the armor you are wearing is what I was more going towards. In the version I did, the subclass still gives only light armor proficiency but does allow and support the use of medium armor and gives different bonuses for wearing medium armor. The idea was to encourage the use of medium armor so that players do not have to worry as much in MAD to keep themselves going and to encourage the use of Str weapons such as the Longsword. Also, before I get comments about "but Wizards don't get proficiency with Medium armor and neither do Elves" I did think about it. Since the restriction can be bypassed by the DM, if you are not in the Forgotten Realms, the DM may remove the restriction and races that start with Medium armor (such as the Mountain Dwarf and the Githyanki) can use it. Also, multiclassing is a thing and a level in any martial class can get you that and you could get dueling fighting style. There is also a feat that can straight up give you proficiency with medium armor. Regardless, I haven't quite finished the revision but I will definitely use this video for ideas about changes to be made.

arcane trickster/bladesinger is sooo much fun to play. I call it the have your cake and it eat it too build. Tons of ways to build it based on what level of melee or spell casting you want along with a variety of tactics.

@neXtinction

4 жыл бұрын

bladesinger 2 / artificer(battlesmith) X - is really strong from level 5 onward as well: Dual-wielding scimitars with int as your attacking stack Frees up con to be your second highest stat and gives a higher(d8>d6) hit-die AC in the low 20s at early levels - 13 + dex + int from bladesong + any other buffs Prof in con saves with + int to that save during bladesong A pet to give adv with optional flanking rules or help protect you with *its* reaction without using a spell slot (shield) And so on... The battle smith has really opened up int-based melee builds with the added proficiencies and allowing int-based attack/damage rolls. Sort of like how the hexblade dip has enabled weak(str) Cha-based paladin builds or college of swords bards. I've got a player using this setup in one of my games and he's been having a blast roleplaying how he's taken the historic bladesinging tradition and grounded it in and enhanced it with science/technology.

For the past year, I've been playing a Bladesinger with great success! He is currently level 10, approaching 11. I did take a dip into monk though for some unarmored defense (because of flavor rather than light armor), but more importantly the Unearthed Arcana Alternative class features that allowed me to select the Longsword as a monk weapon so I could attack with Dexterity. The AC bonus from Wisdom and the Dexterity for longsword were both pivotal for making my character run well. Most of the time I run dual Scimitars (because shortswords are for noobs) and attack twice with action, bonus action attack with the off-hand blade, and when I'm hasted, I'll take either another attack or cast a damage spell. Whenever I'm maintaining concentration on a battlefield control spell though, (Like Storm Sphere or Flaming Sphere at low level) I would run a longsword for a little higher damage on two attacks and activate the concentration spell with the bonus action. It works very well, but my party knows full well that even though I'm nigh untouchable, if anyone so much as sneezes on me, I'm going down. It's honestly become something of a joke with my group. that's why I took the Tough Feat for + a lot of HP.

I love bladesinger and I loved this video. Hope Wizards change and correct them soon

My fix would be giving at lvl 10 something like "you can concentrate on two spells at once. if you do you have disadvantage on all concentration checks (both checks are made at disadvantage even if the damage taken makes you lose concentration of first spell)" If needed you could add limitation that other or both of the spells must target yourself. Reasoning and general bladesinger toughs under. There is always big problem with sword mages and that is whenever you choose to attack or cast spells. Other option will always overshadow the other. So the way I tend to see bladesinger is some kind of "attacks build around buffs + good defense as long as you burn more spells for it." Things like shield, mage armor and absorb elements play into that defense side really well, blur would be nice but concentrations are something you are short on, after all your offence depends on that. And that is the problem, to be any kind of passable in making actual attacks you would need shadowblade or strong magic items. And while having shadowblade makes haste really good on you you just spend you concentration and without shadowblade you have better uses for concentration than to haste yourself. So for that to work you would need another caster in party to give you the haste... About multiclassing, fighter actually seems more like actionsurge burst option than melee fighting wizard for me as it lets you cast two big spells at the same turn. However, the perfect fit in abilities, even if quite MAD and just as burst oriented (at least is it burst through attacks) would be 2 levels of paladin (con was always a perfect dump stat for front line wizard either way.) Shadowblade + smites, well people have asked me why I need so many d8. And you get your fighting style as well. When I got my hands on cloak of displacement and party member found amulet of health that he traded for me... well you can guess the outcome (oh and +3 armor and defense fighting style, yea ac was high.) Now in the video and in my case we used magic items to take place of concentration spells, he with sunblade instead of shadowblade, me with cloak of displacement instead of blur. But you do kind of need to push concentration limitations. And as he said in the video, first turn went for buffing. In my case first turn was fireball+ bladesong, second was shadowblade+ attacks and that is fine and all. What his suggestion was was pushing defense even more with extra hp but my problem with that is that it doesn't make bladesinger any better in actual sword stuff, just harder to kill. Outside of extra attacks most of the abilities are already defensive pushing you into "wizard that is hard to kill" direction instead of sword fighting wizard. Giving extra concentration would let you depend less on specific magic items or making supporting you responsibility for your party. And I think there might be one big difference between 3.5 and 5e bladesingers, I believe that in 3.5 you were able to concentrate on multiple spells at the same time. Not certain tho, haven't played 3.5 that much. Adding the extra risk of losing both concentration effects adds to the decision making in my opinion, do you want to risk your concentration to have two? Also it would be something that lets you actually do damage or add utility or whatever you need instead of piling another purely defensive ability. All in all bladesinger still is the best official option for my favorite archetype of full caster sword mage even if it needs a lot to make actually work well.

I love the way bladesinger is. Got a monk/singer. With haste 5 attacks per round thanks to flurry of blows.

WHAAT this is exactly what i was wishing for! Thanks ted :)

The first thing I did when editing Bladesinger for my home game is allow two-handed weapons during Bladesong, because I wanted to use the elf-only melee weapon with it, the Double-Bladed Scimitar (yes, I know they're exclusive to different worlds, but I liked the concept.)

*Changes I made* War Song: gave it Medium Armor. Bladesong (Noticed its basically "Barbarian Rage" for wizards so): took out the AC & Speed increases, and replaced them with the "Haste" effect. All bonuses drop if you don't cast a spell each turn. Song of Defence: Whenever you make a Melee Weapon Attack, attacks against you are at disadvantage until your next turn. Song of Victory: When an Evocation spell that Targets you misses, you can make a Performance check to redirect it - using that check as the Attack Roll.

I played a melee bladesinger at level 5. The highlight of the build was dealing 48 psychic+thunder damage in one turn. (Elven accuracy crit+ lv3 shadow blade 3d8 + booming blade 1d8+2d8 + 4).

I just really want to see it reworked in a way that better reflects the different combat and weapon styles used by different practitioners of the bladesinger archetype. Having a wizard subclass that gives options and customizability the same way totem and storm barbarian, battlemaster, the entire warlock class and others do would be wonderful. Addressing your proposed solutions, I personally like the idea of spending spell slots to minimize damage, but I do like your proposition as well - so let's combine them. Just spitballing, but let's say it lets you burn a spell slot of up to 3rd level, and in doing so allows you to treat a number of hits taken that round equal to the level of the slot expended as if you'd used uncanny dodge. Perhaps it takes a bonus action to activate, or it could be a reaction. I like it as a BA myself, almost like using the monk's step of the wind or the rogue's cunning action to take the dodge action as a BA, but instead of disadvantage on all attack rolls it just halves incoming attack damage - but conversely, if it were a reaction, then you wouldn't be able to stack it with shield or absorb elements, which is probably for the best since that would be ludicrous. It may sound powerful, but remember that spell slots are a precious commodity. If you spam it, you won't do much spell slinging.

I play a bladesinger/swashbuckler multiclass with 3 levels dipped into rogue for the subclass. Fancy footwork is extremely useful if your party has a tank. Being able to dart in, attack and then dart out without worrying about opportunity attacks. Also expertise and being a dex based scimitar dual wielding blur who has +10 to stealth checks is real nice lol. Also being a dodge tank means that taking the luck feat is a must since you can shield away most hits but luck is one of the few ways to stop a crit

I worked with a party Bladesinger and allowed then that binding Concentration from all spells activated their Bladesong. Partially like a Frenzy barbarian choosing to amplify their core feature. Then swapped Extra Attack for bonus action weapon attacks after cantrip casting. Finally at level 14 gave them permanent Haste when concentrating on another spell. Later on when College of Swords bard came out made it similar to that instead using Flourishes and Spell slots instead of Bardic Inspiration.

Hi, I liked this video and just wanted to mention that +1 hp at each level is the same as going up to a d8 hit die. A d6 has an average of 3.5, a d8 has an average of 4.5, so adding 1 makes your average hit points the same as if you had a d8 hit die. Also, I don't think that survivability is an issue, especially with the 10th level feature. I believe people may think it is because they perhaps try to play as a melee fighter when you really should be playing more like a melee rogue; staying out of range of things like dragon breath weapons, and trying for more of a hit-and-move style of attacks where you deal damage without really getting into a slugfest with the enemy. I also think that sacrificing a spell slot to negate damage isn't that bad of a feature. Yes, you can probably use that spell slot more efficiently to do something other than negate damage. However, you probably don't use all of your spell slots every day, unless combats are lasting unusually long, so this allows you to get benefit from those. And while you could use them more efficiently than negating damage, this feature is more of a panic button for if you accidentally got caught in a dragon's breath weapon or something, and it might knock you out. Better to be inefficient than drop in combat.

Loved your discussion! With the fixes, I am not convinced so much. I think I would remove the restriction to one handed fighting (elven blades would be cool) but weaken the concentration bonus a bit it move it to higher levels. At level 6, I think the Eldrich Knight bonus action attack is great. Level 10 we could see the boost to concentration and weapon damage wealready had. At high levels, permanent bladesong sounds great. Bonus action attack after a spell would also be great but perhaps too strong. Alternatively, one could have the ability allow you to cast any spell with the range of self when you enter bladesong.

My fixes are 2nd level -You can only use blade song weapon in hand and nothing in the other. Add to this point you can use blade sone a number of times on a short rest equal to your int modifier min -1. 6th You gain Superior Bladesong style - Depending on your weapon choose younger a minor benefit. You no longer need a free hand to use with your blade song. Also you gain the ability to make an attack with your bladesong weapon as a bonus attack if you cast a spell (even an combat cantrip). 10 Weave Song During your blade song you can re-roll any save once but you must take the result. Blade cap Crescendo- As long as you wish you are in blade song but you may stop the blade song at anytime causing any spell you are under the effect of to stop. You can’t start your blade once more till after your the end of your next turn.

Sick Proton Pack!

I think you could make the quicken spell feat from 3.5 roll over to like this: "When u take you action to use the attack action you Can cast a spell that would normally cost an action as a bonus action. You can cast spells up to to half your max spell level with this feature. You can only do this a number of time equal to you int modifier"

On the contrary I think the quicken spell aspect fits perfectly flavor wise. The restrictions could be you must be in blade song, you can do it a number of times equal to your intelligence modifier, and the spell must have somatic components. Your dancing and flourishing causes you to cast the spell at elevated speeds allowing for stabs and parries in between the somatic components. Either that or something like casting spells a certain way in your blade song can't be counter spelled a number of times equal to your intelligence modifier this is because the fluid motions in which you make the somatic components look foreign to most casters. I think it's important to build a feature around the artistry since that's the point.

Lots of good suggestions.

So one thing that is interesting about mixing barbarians with blade singers is while barbarians cannot cast spells or concentrate on them while raging their are spells that don't require concentration and last for an extended period of time meaning if you pop two levels into blade singer you can take your first turn to activate your blade song and cast a spell like find familiar, jump, or long strider

@YourBoyNobody530

4 жыл бұрын

then on the following turn you can activate your rage then smack people in the face

Bladesinger with shadow blade, mirror image, booming blade/greenflameblade, warcaster, and mobile. Been playing this build and it's pretty fun.

So bladesinger is one of my favorite subclasses although I don't follow the lore and play a variant human, and this how I like to do my melee build. -I take tough at first lvl as a human, because it provides the extra chunk that allows you to tango on melee, followed by a Int ASI and war caster. -I don't use my swords, instead I use shadow blade, because you get it early, it is a bonus action to cast, can be used with a offhand, gives advantage in dim light and darkness, scales over time, adds your Dex/str mod to damage, and works with multiattack AND works with BB/GFB. It is honestly scary how much damage you can pump out. -One use for song of defense that I rarely see people talk about is if you take Tensor's transformation at lvl 11 you can't cast spells but you can use your song of defense, meaning that if you go nova your character can have 20+ AC, do 6d12force+3d6 if you use two scimitars, and have effectively as much HP as a dragon in the form of spell slots.

@keeganmbg6999

4 жыл бұрын

Nestromo Just a note, RAW you cannot select Variant Human for Bladesinger.

@shadows96100

4 жыл бұрын

@@keeganmbg6999 RAW it is DM dependent, but this build works even without the extra feat.

I have a character concept similar to the bladesinger-eldritch knight, by taking the first 2 levels in paladin and the rest of your levels in college of swords bard. You can take another level in paladin for an oath if you want but you only need the paladin proficiencies, divine smite, and the fighting style of your choice. You have a ton of spell slots for smiting when you go melee, all armor and weapon proficiencies, two fighting styles, and your spellcaster level is only ever 1 behind a typical caster so you have to wait a little longer to get bigger spells but who cares if you need to be 18th level for a 9th level spell because high-tier play is busted anyway, not to mention Inspiration. This is how to play a General or other great leader type of character, in my opinion.

@AllThingsFascinate

4 жыл бұрын

Ok, as a player who loves Bards but has never wanted to play a paladin, I'm interested. I've been wanting to play a hexblade, but it always feels like I could make the character better using the Bard chassis. Your idea adds the smites. Hmm.

Thanks for this!!

My Bladesinger is by far the most powerful melee combatant our campaign has had. I combined it with 2 levels of Kensai from the Heroes of the Orient book, which is basically like taking 1 level of fighter for the Dueling fighting style and 1 level of Monk for the unarmored defense (but with Charisma instead of Wisdom). Since Bladesong is a temporary ability and adds your intelligence instead of giving an AC calculation, it stacks with unarmored defense, making my AC 10 + Dex + Int + Cha, and the only way I know of to ad 3 stat bonuses to you AC. Yes it's only for a minute, but you can use it twice per short rest. That has been more than enough. Like you, I just don't ever get hit. Ever. I've only even had to use Shield 2 or 3 times. I'm playing purely melee, so all of my spells are based around that, and mostly defense. Add in Ring of Protection, Bracers of Defense, and/ or Cloak of Displacement and just laugh whenever someone tries to role an attack against you. As for Extra Attack vs Green Flame Blade/ Booming Blade/ Sword Burst, options are good. 2 opponents, Green Flame Blade. Single opponent likely to move, Booming Blade. Single opponent unlikely to move, Extra Attack. More than 2 opponents, Sword Burst (unless you need to focus on 1 or 2 of them). That level of flexibility is extremely powerful when it comes to tactics. Plus, take the War Caster feat (which you better if you're in melee with concentration spells) and you can cast any of those spells as a reaction; most likely Booming Blade since the triggering action is probably them moving away from you. My 2nd feat is Mobility, giving even more movement and the ability to negate opportunity attacks, for getting past defenders and closing on enemy spellcasters, provided I don't want to use Misty Step. The untouchability, mobility, and respectable damage output, plus spells to bolster any of those as needed? No fixing is needed. The ONLY non thematic change we've made is bringing back 3E's confirming critical. Because it's just stupid that the only way most enemies can hit me is with a nat 20, which still wouldn't hit if it wasn't automatic. Critical or nothing is a stupid rule. I'll be perfectly willing to give up spells slots to reduce damage if I get hit, since almost all of my spells above 1st level are concentration spells that i rarely need more than 1 or 2 of.

I dont mind the length! Especially when getting some history of the class pre 5e

My fix to song of defense was that I made it work like a reflect, where the damage absorbed was reflected back as force damage, and I also made song of victory very close to what you had in mind. Extra attacks the one I was most unsatisfied with and I've yet to find a good solution for it.

Honestly I like what I have right now with my Bladesinger, Barbarian, Fighter multi-class, it’s possible to have 32 AC by level 20 with the build I’ve got going and I really have been enjoying ALSO having access to wish along with it and constantly invoking disadvantage Unarmored defense (with stats gives base 20) Shield spell mastery (+5 as reaction but can always be casted) Blur mastery (constantly keeping concentration on it) Haste ( +2) Bladesong (+5)

@Chris-jw8vm

3 жыл бұрын

I'm also planning to go bladesinger with a level in barbarian. By level 3 I should have 26AC. 18 con +4 14 dex +2 18 int +4 +1AC from warforged race +5 shield and +4 bladesong. Lucked out on my roll so I should max out con int and dex by lvl 20 so I should have an extra +5 AC from increased stats and +4 from bracers of defence cloak of protection and ring of protection, so AC 35. Also plan to go shield and blur for spell mastery. DM is letting us take a feat at level 1 so I plan to take tough. Should have 222 hp by level 20 so I'll have a pretty tanky wizard. Any tips you have on playing this kind of character? Don't see many others trying that combo.

my Bladesinger is a Hobgoblin, the lore is that his clan tortured the art and secrets of blade singing out of a captured Elven knight hundreds of years ago. he uses a Rapier, Whip, and Scimitar as his martial weapons. and I play him as an investigator / magical cop. flavor wise with the rapier I paint him as like, the star of some old Wuxia movies like crouching tiger.

My fixes: -The HP gain that you suggested is awesome, never thought of it but I might argue for that one at my table -At 2nd Level: Training in War and Song gives you the Dueling fighting style -At 6th Level: Get War Magic instead of Extra Attack Essentially turn it into Spell Caster heavy Melee combatant, instead of Melee heavy Spell Caster. I’ve also found success going to Lv 8 as a Bladesinger, and using any other levels for Rogue. In my current campaign I started at Lv 2 for Rogue to get Cunning Action, and now am focused on gaining levels as a Bladesinger. Then I’ll probably come back to Rogue for the rest of the game. Plus the extra d6s in Sneak Attack and the Familiar make it a fun build.

@Bochachonacho

3 жыл бұрын

Also, I’ll always be miffed the Bladesinger doesn’t get Weapon Bond.

Just had a thought, but its probably op. During bladesong what if you could sacrifice a spell slot and do extra magical or force damage equal to twice the spell lvl sacrificed on melee attacks, feature can only be used during bladesong and only once per use of bladesong and lasts a number of rounds equal to the spells level. However it works similar to concentration, while its in effect you need to maintain concentration on the effect but it doesnt count as concentrating on a spell(for the purpose of maintaining a buff on yourself etc), you also loose the effect should you loose concentration on a spell you are focusing on. So sacrificing damage you could do with a 9th lvl spell to instead get +18dmg on 2, maybe 3 melee hits for 9 rounds assuming you never loose concentration or hit in melee every time. Prolly op

An attack as a bonus action when u cast a spell is good. Also, +1hp a level is good.

Been playing kensei/abjuration wizard. Very similar play style to this. Maybe instead of spending spell slots directly for damage mitigation, there can be an effect that charges a hp shield that takes damage before you do. That way you still cast the spell while getting the perk.

Personally I think the way to fix Song of Defence is to treat it more like a spell. You're a wizard after all, so gaining a unique spell-like effect would make sense. --- Song of Defence: Beginning at 10th level, you can direct your magic to absorb damage while your bladesong is active. As a bonus action, you can perform the Song of Defence by expending 1 spell slot. The Song of Defence gains a number of charges equal to the spell slot level. When you take damage, you can expend a single charge to reduce that damage by 5 times the spell slot level. Song of Defence ends after you've expended all your charges, your bladesong has ended, or a minute has passed. Attempting a second Song of Defence while the first is still active, will also immediately end the first Song of Defence. --- I think making it something you prep in advance, and that has a duration, substantially improves this ability. Tying charges to the spell slot gives you a lot more value for the slot, while also letting the bladesinger survive better against groups or multi-attack enemies. Since it's no longer tied to your reaction, you're now also free to use counter spell more often, which is another nice boost to the subclass. Honestly making this the 14th level ability instead of the 10th wouldn't be unreasonable imo give the power up this gets, while also thematically making sense since you'd now start and end learning songs.

Perhaps, instead of Extra Attack, you get the War Magic feature or thing thing that the Valor Bard has: where you can attack and then bonus action allows you to cast a Cantrip(Booming/Green Flame Blade)

song of defense is really cool in that it helps with keeping up your concentration. Perhaps getting one charge of ten for free once per long rest or something and then you can use spell slots to get more charges or something. I know you're already really good at keeping concentration but it's extra protection and it's a cool theme.

My AL bladesinger started out with 2 levels of Paladin then the rest is bladesinger. Smiting is a fun way to "cast" spells in melee. The paladin multiclass requirements were kind of expensive, but I am enjoying the character and have found it highly effective.

I didn't play it yet, but I am planning to. I am really looking into Dual Wielding - Wizard usually don't get good use for your bonus action unless you take 2 lvl Rouge multiclass (which can work very well) or cast one of a few spells that give you use for bonus action (which require concentration, so you won't be able to cast Haste). With Dual Wielding you'll be doing 1.5 times more attacks, and potential damage bonus from fighting style is bigger than from Dueling, especially considering 14 lvl ability. Yes, you'll need Warcaster feat (which I would take anyway) and maybe Ruby of the Warmage (a common magic item that allows you to use a weapon as a focus), but it can work. Another thing I was looking into - Tenzer's Transformation spell. It's great (in theory) - advantage on every attack and 2d12 additional force damage with each attack (which would be even more powerful with Dual Wielding), and you can't cast spells so your spell slots are free for Song of Defense, so it would be very hard to bypass that 50 temp hp and then force to lose concentration as you'll be lowering incoming damage. Song of Defense reduction works in a similar formula to False Life spell (which is maybe not best but exists) but not require your action.

So one thing I like to do is mix the blade singer with druid because the increased armor class, the extra movement speed, and the bonus to concentration is amazing when wild shaped and concentrating on a spell as it makes you much harder to hit and gives you a serious advantage when making concentration checks doubly along with a nice movement buff

I've never seen a Bladesinger without Mobile. At 50ft movement no attack of opportunity and High AC they dart in and out of combat and never get hurt unless the DM has it out for them. It's insane. With Haste and/or Shadowblade. Before lvl 5 the use of Booming Blade or Greenflame Blade after Shadow Blade is insane... That thing is a monster and I love it in my party.

Damn. Your and my character are almost the same. I started Eldritch Knight and took that to 6th level, and then had 2 levels of bladesinger. I managed to get a sunsword as well in the campaign. However I use the mage armor spell for armor, and use a shortsword in my off hand (took the two weapon fighting style). Gilanndan is a force to be reckoned with. Getting shield, blue, mirror image and more makes it really hard to be hit. At higher levels, I'll eventually take counterspell to stop AoE effects

I've played a dip of bladesinger, it was a trickster rogue with two levels in bladesinger, you get all the basics of wizard, without really caring about the extra attack issue, Booming /Green Flame Blade makes up for the loss of sneak attack, and you end up stupid hard to hit anyway

I think the finesse of a martial weapon like a kensai but can only be used with one hand would work. Even the lance as mentioned, can only be used by two hands unless you're mounted, along with the 5ft disadvantage. (could work as a mounted bladesinger I guess?)

I kind of want to do the spell singer, with a dip into either barbarian or monk. Get that unarmored defense, and since blade song doesn't change your armor, it gives you a bonus, you walk around with 3 stats giving you AC. Just for the fun of it, pick up bracers of defense, ring of protection, and cloak of protection (highest rarity there being rare, so not to bad). End up with a stagnant 24 AC (I know its not likely, especially with standard array, but based off of best case scenario, because its more fun that way), blade song to a 29, cast haste on yourself for 31, then on the off chance something actually hits you, shield to 36. Who needs health when the only thing that can hit you are crits.

@antongrigoryev6381

4 жыл бұрын

I don't think it worth it. It's pretty hard to max 3 stats, I doubt you will have that third stat higher than 16, or even 14. Instead, you can just cast Mage Armor that will give you the same AC without spending levels for useless multiclass. Yes, Barbarian's defense works with Con that is still pretty useful, but every other feature is totally useless. Monk multiclass will have so few ki points to activate Flurry of Blows, and Wisdom isn't useful for you at all.

@ikeillue8385

4 жыл бұрын

@@antongrigoryev6381 This wouldn't be a normal game thing to play. This would be the kind of thing you play, when you do a high stat game, like roll stats, but roll 5 dice and drop the two lowest, or increase the point buy points. And, in all honesty, it would probably be more efficient to dip into the blade singer, using low level spells for things like shield, while making your primary monk (since you can't cast while raging). But, again, this is all based off a power game.

@ikeillue8385

4 жыл бұрын

@@antongrigoryev6381 Besides, even with a basic point buy system, you could get a base AC of 20 plus an additional 2 for blade dance, or additional 3, if you are willing to give up the d10 for martial arts die. Given, you will only have a plus 1 on con, but the concept is to not get hit, so having low health wouldn't be that huge an issue. Still probably better to just do the blade dancer, with mage armor in this case, but again, high point buy cap, or really good random roll, this would be a peerless dodge tank.

I agree the subclass in general seems fine though it wouldn't hurt to also have some minor improvements. I am not sure if your suggestions are good or not my self but i have nothing better to add either. Though i will admit a small part of me kinda wishes they had different "songs" in akin to how Bard collage of swords has different Flourishs. OR maybe that be another cool new bard time who knows I just like that sort of mechanic.

one alternative to the song of defense is have when your blade song is active Raise all saving throws by your int bonus + grant temp hp

I agree with what you said towards the end that possibly the Bladesinger could use Intelligence for attack and damage rolls in place of Strength or Dexterity. I like the idea that the Bladesinger could get that at 6th level in place of Extra Attack, which doesn't conflict with the idea of using Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade as your primary source of melee damage. Of course, you're still in light armour so you still need Dexterity for your AC and until you get to 6th level, also this stops people dipping Bladesinger for Int-to-attack and damage like they do for Hexblade because it's so late into the class. I dislike that the Double Bladed Scimitar can't be used with the Bladesinger because it's two-handed. Why can the elf-only subclass designed to engage in melee not use the elf-only melee weapon? I think that a special exception should be made for this, and we houserule that it works in the home games we play.

Just made a bladesinger about a month ago after I realized it was a thing. He's very old so I came up with an idea for him. When he activates blade song it acts like a transformation state where he turns younger. I feel like it plays well into the extra acrobatics of the bladesong. It's been fun, but the class is a little awkward for sure

@hmcloud8487

4 жыл бұрын

YOOO I LOVE THIS

Blade Singers are weird in that they have this absurd power spike at level 6 (or 7 with a 1 level Fighter dip) because of gaining Extra Attack and Haste on top of Blade Song - and then they drop rather sharply because most enemies at the higher levels of tier 2 will not only have multi-attacks and high attack boni, but will also have a lot of (almost) unavoidable ways of gaining advantage. This means that a Blade Singer will start getting hit (and critted) quite often despite a very high AC - meaning their lower HP will start to definitely bite them in the ass.

My only tweak/fix to this class would be to add this line to the bladesong feature: When you attack with a weapon you are proficient with, you can use your Intelligence modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls. If we can have this with hexblades, why not with bladesingers?

@JustJake91

3 жыл бұрын

Bladesinger/battlesmith artificer is a really gross combo I found for this very reason

Lv6 extra attack...OOOOOOR fireball, lightning bolt, hypnotic pattern, major image, sleet storm, slow, stink cloud. Yeah...ima go spells over a +1d8 thank you very much Edit: On the anecdote of the melee caster MC...just go moon+totem, take the sentinel and you're good. As a bear you can rage, you use str for attacks so you get the rage bonus, you half all damage night psychic, reckless attack for advantage.

I literally have the exact same blade singer build even the stats except I took two weapon fighting.

Fix the rogue inquisitor please!

I was worried about this vid, but all in all, it seems that it doesn't really need to be altered, some tweaks, but nothing major or even essential unlike other classes. Song of Defence is better than uncanny dodge because SoD also effectively gives you evasion (I. E. a way of reducing damage from AoEs) so as long as the alternative to just halve damage wasn't limited to melee attacks, that's cool (but I like resource management and risk/reward systems, so the spell slot sacrifice thing is sweet to me) I see SoD not as a HP pool, but as a way to reduce the damage enough so that you could pass any concentration check, it let's you sacrifice a spell slot to maintain concentration , so you don't have to recast (haste or shadowblade or Tenser's Transformation!) if you lose concentration. In response to other comments about bladesong being limited: your bladesong recharges on a short rest! Like, come on, that's brutal. And a short rest is only 10 minutes long if you (or someone in your party) has catnap. If you are going full melee and want to max potential I'd recomend warcaster, con save proficiency (from fighter or resilience feat) and shadowblade (which can also stack with booming blade) and if you haven't dipped into fighter (all those extra shadowblade attacks are nice) dip into rogue because your sneak attack damage becomes psychic damage! And swashbuckler works for the free disengage. Or focus on using Tenser's transformation and use lower lvl spell's for SoD. I agree with the performance or acrobatics prof, that's nice. Extra attack is great with shadowblade but with other weapons not as good as cantrips so I get the indecision there, but maybe the Eldritch Knight cantrip/bonus action attack might be a bit OP? (tho I'd take it if it was offered lol)

My thought would be instead of extra attack at lvl 6 make it that when you use the attack action, you can then cast a cantrip immediately after.

Song of defense: Temp HP every turn equal to your Bladesinger lvl + INT mod. Unarmored defense I think is the right change.

So I have been thinking about this. How blade song is just too good as a dip. so here are the changing I was thinking to do. to remove the awkward Mad. as for the Elvin chain. I thin k its better to change the Elvin chain to be treated as a light armor rather than stating the Elvin chain in the subclass. 1. Training in war and song: you gain proficiency in either acrobatic or performance. Gain 1 hp per level in that class, you are proficient in simple and martial weapons and light armor. and you can use your intelligence modifier when attacking with a melee weapon that lacks the heavy property rather than your strength or dexterity. 2. Blade song: You can use a bonus action to blade song. it ends early if you wear an armor you are not proficient with or an armor that has disadvantage to stealth , wield a shield or use a weapon with the heavy property. while you blade sing you have those properties. • you gain +2 AC and gain temp hp equal to your wizard level + your intelligence modifier (minimum of 1). • your movement speed increase by 10 ft. • you have advantage on Dexterity ability checks. • you gain a bonus to con save to maintain concentration equal to your intelligence modifier (minimum of 1) You can use this feature once, and you regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest. You can also expend a spell slot to use the feature again. 3. at level 10 Improved Blade song: your art of blade become stronger and more elegant. your blade song improve as follow: • The bonus to your AC increase to equal your intelligence modifier (minimum of +3). • your movement speed increase by another 10 ft. • Whenever you take damage you can spend a spell slot to negate some of the damage equal to 10 times the spell level. 4. At level 14 Swift blade: when you use your action to cast a spell, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action. Design goal Remove the Huge banifit to dip and make blade song a more survivable and less mad class. "Making the choices wider for the subclass" making like the blade song can be active with armor that doesn't have disadvantage mean like they can wear mithrial armor for example because thats also something important to elfs. that might works too.

The biggest issue with your suggested changes is overloading level 2: 1) Fully effective bladesong (the strongest part of the class RAW) 1a) Bladesong is almost enough alone compared to other level 3 kit modifiers and key abilities 2) Added HP per level 3) Finesse longsword/battleaxe/etc (objectively better than str-based) - leaving the light armor prof as well instead of forcing the use of mage armor... 4) Acrobatics option over performance, subjectively viewed as far superior by most I liked a lot of the changes, mostly the lev14 perma-song. Seems fitting that you'd have mastered your chosen skill by that point like overchannel and improved portent. Stealing uncanny dodge feels lazy and I'd much rather see the retention of flexible spell slots. Burning a spell slot of different effects: a d6 of force damage per spell slot (a la smiting) for the offensive option, taking half damage for a number of attacks equal to spell level (lasting 1 min in exchange for concentration) for defense, or something along those lines. An offensive/defensive/utility choice to make that represents your choice to use spell slots in a different way than a traditional wizard (which I think wizards was going for with level 10).

I've actually played this as well, up to level 6 as the melee focussed wizard. And I don;t get all the hate this class gets. If you use shadow blade and a shortsword on your off hand, and use booming blade as your action you're surprisingly powerful. I also took the Mobile feat to just be able to run away all the time. It was great for looking down battlefield. I got a ring of evasion as well which solved the problem of dying due to area of effects. In case it was unsave I still had ranged spells that could still control the battlefield. It was very fun to play a wizard with (with shield spell) 24 AC

Heres my fix start as a battle smith artificer 3 levels then the reast bladesinger

@knightghaleon

4 жыл бұрын

rob martinez I’ve done this and it certainly helps.

So for my homebrew gish class within the sorcerer tree I went for the war magic like option but in reverse: basically when you take the attack action you can cast a cantrip as a bonus action. I'm testing it out in a campagin with a character who is 5 lvls into paladin so jury is out on if this is an OP feature for multiclassing, but I think with a primarily casting based class a war casting feature like this is pretty good. I think this also has the effect of making things like blade ward and in niche cases truestrike by proxy better. Just wondering your thoughts on such a work around though.