I mean I think the biggest problem is unlike Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster, Four Elements just doesn't contain a mechanism to ensure the class stays competitive with other third casters as new books come out. It doesn't have a class spell list to refer to so it can't get new spells and sure you can fix that by adding spells from Xanathar's but when the next book of spells comes out you'll be back where we started.

@unwithering5313

3 жыл бұрын

Power creep betrays Monks in general; in my campaigns I'm making homebrew stuff for Way of the Four Elements to improve their versatility as well as using house rules to dampen the Ki drainage issue

@miguelferrari7610

Жыл бұрын

I think you should get to change the ability bettwen the ones you've learned at every long rest Not just as a "choose now and never change" kind of mechanic

Are you going to upload or link the Google Doc since you mention pulling and tweaking the PDF?

Would love to see a pdf of all the classes / subclasses you've fix and how you did. In most cases I find I am agreeing with you after hearing the reasoning and some I feel would need to be played before I can say if it would work or not. Over all great video keep it up and thanks for the time you put in to this!

@UnableToFindName

4 жыл бұрын

I second this.

@caseyhullfish1345

4 жыл бұрын

@@UnableToFindName i third this

@tz2979

4 жыл бұрын

I fourth this.

@fatforehead956

4 жыл бұрын

I fifth this

4 жыл бұрын

Sixth this

Please Link the Doc PDF, it sounds really interesting and I would like to use it as a reference

There's going to be a long list of people wanting a digital link to these ideas. Need to get a tally on everyone chomping at the bit for something to read

One thing I would enjoy to see more of, and I enjoy a lot, is the features that use ki optionally, for example, your version of the fist of unbroken air is extremely good because it extends reach, and then you can use ki to push a creature. That’s a huge improvement that I wish also happened to waterwhip, or at least let water whip last for a minute with “concentration”. That’ll be something I homebrew in. But this is an amazing replacement and I love it

The Class Feature Variants UA had a cool, simple boost to 4 Elements which is Ki-fueled Strike, which allows you to make an unarmed strike as a bonus action if you spend any Ki with your action.

@toshomni9478

4 жыл бұрын

That's the only thing I didn't like in this alternate version. They should get that feature from the start or at least by level 5 or so.

I think if yoiu were to completely redesign this subclass, you could say that at 3rd level, when using the attack action, you can make ranged attacks using fire, water, earth or air. Fire is only possible if not underwater, Air only when not underground, Earth only if the opponent is touching solid ground and Water only when there is water somewhere within 100 feet. You make a ranged attack instead of a meelee attack, and the damage is determined by your martial arts die. You can replace as many attacks of your attack action with this ranged attack as you choose, and the damage type is determined by what element you use: Fire for Fire, Slashing for Water, Thunder for Air and Bludgeoning for Earth. I think this would be much more interesting!

So not sure if everyone is talking about the existing remaster doc or the one I was working on, the existing is here: kzread.info?v=hNmme21smkM&redir_token=5gCyURGZpSArqhWQnzeSMEyb2hp8MTU4MjQxOTQxMkAxNTgyMzMzMDEy&html_redirect=1&q=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Ffile%2Fd%2F0B1pdYIcfHauwNDM2My1XeWFYSDA%2Fview&event=video_description I have yet to make any document with my fixes yet.

I like the changes purposed. I played a four elements monk my first character in 5th edition, and I didn't really feel underpowered then but I can see all the issues now they are pointed out

@LandonTheDM

4 жыл бұрын

Though, I didn't play it for many sessions only 5 or so

Where can I find your version

I really like the disciplines that augment the base monk features, the extended jump distance with Step of the Wind, or the glide on the Slow Fall and the like. I wanna do a character that doesn’t take any of the actual elemental disciplines but is just a really good monk.

Your fix looks way more fun I like the content👍🏻👍🏻

My fix. Give the monk warlock spellslots and let him exchange a slot for 5ki. Then he can either use them for elemental spells or ki feats. this also has the advantage that a monk gets a frontload of ki points. Making it more multiclass friendly

Letting you know what I think: I really don't think this subclass is that bad! but I agree it needs some minor help and you have some good ideas. Places where we are not seeing the trees through the forest: Cantrips = useless (don't bother) Discipline Choices = why did we bother in the first place? why are you adding more powers if you only pick 5?? More Upcasting = waste of ki! Steps on Wizard toes. Don't bother! Adding More Useless Powers = this subclass already has ribbon abilities bloat galore! Much of the stuff you all are discussing is bloat and ribbons Why nerf Water Whip Damage? = Bonus actions are 99% as good as real actions for Monks especially after you fix them with Spell Fist Things I like: Elemental Weapon = (yes) IMO, let the player adjust it at will. It's nice flavor damage and it doesn't cost ki. Elemental Resistance = (yes) let the player have them ALL, at 17 though Elemental Bane = (cool) or you could allow the player to change element damage types at-will of spells and effects Elemental Fist: Bonus action flurry of blows = (nice) add make flurry for free (spell casting is dumping ki down the drain) Reduce spell ki cost to spell level = (yes) Golden Snakes Icy Path = (cool) Places where you are Overpowering the Subclass: Serpent's Fang with no ki = breaks every other reach subclass. Better alternative is Serpent's Fang 1 ki, Flurry 1ki, and add 1d6 to all attacks for this turn 1ki. Keep in mind you already gave 1d4 for free with Elemental Weapon. Also, Fang needs to last until the beginning of your following turn to use it for reaction. Fist of Unbroken Air Change = No. No. No. It's not supposed to be as good as Open Hand Technique. FYI, it's not about the damage anyway, but maybe make the damage uneffected by the spell save. Dumping ki to do more damage on this power is a flat waste. It's a trap. All that said, the art and display for the Way of the Four Elements Remastered is just gorgeous. I really love it. Thanks for sharing this. This was very helpful to me for developing my own far less ambitious Home Brew concept.

Already commented about the thumbnail on Twitter, you are on fire! Really nice to see this subclass getting some attention! Not a huge fan of the actual class, but if I ever decide to play one, it's going to be Four Elements. I like abilities the most where a spell-like effect is molded to be used in melee combat (Unbroken Air & Fire Snake) and not just "you get this spell but others are going to better at casting it than you". Then the ability feels unique and not just something everybody else is also able to do. Any inside information on when is the Ranger (or just the Beastmaster) video going to come out? I can't wait for it!

To me, the biggest problem this class has is it's trying to be a third-caster without the spell slots. My recommendation would be to make the subclass a third-caster, with access to either the Druid or Sorcerer spell list. However, unlike the Eldritch Knight, which can only choose from Abjuration or Evocation spells, the 4 Elements could only choose from spells that do elemental damage or involve air, earth, water, or stone. This way you have finite resources to do the cool elemental stuff, but you're not blowing through your ki points.

I've always thought that the main issue with the elemental monk is that it is literally better to just multiclass into druid or sorcerer. Just one level of either of them can do the exact same thing as the elemental monk, and more. Heck, even just taking the magic initiate feat at 4th would give you more for leveling up compared to elemental monk.

My big two fixes for the Subclass would be: 1.) You prepare the number of Disciplines you know after a long rest, equal to half your Monk level (minimum of 1) + your Wisdom Modifier. This would remove the need for rigidly picking your Disciplines, and allow the freedom of having more you can do at any given time. This would put it on par with the other third casters in the number of spells they would know. 2.) Either, allow for higher casting (like he did with spending up to half your Monk level worth of Ki points on a spell), or, add other features at 3, 6, 11 and 17. Since this class is supposed to be a third caster, it shouldn't have the ability to cast spells at levels most full casters only have one spell slot of, and do so multiple times every short rest. But, if that is part of it's strength, then it wouldn't really need other features. So I think if you keep the Ki Table, you should add other features. But if you want to use half your Monk level in how many Ki points you can spend, then I don't think you need other features, or at least, only add lesser features to keep it balanced.

@greeninferno1339

4 жыл бұрын

I like you number 1 a lot: I definitely felt it was way too rigid on choosing

@xavieravila3037

3 жыл бұрын

wouldn't the the first fix make the subclass a little overpowered?

@ShadowOrgXIII1

3 жыл бұрын

@@xavieravila3037 Yes and no. It would be overpowered in the sense that you can do a lot more than the other third spellcasters. But it's all at the cost of your Ki points, which you will still burn through very quickly. So while you gain a lot of versatility, you're still using a resource that Monks usually need to use sparingly. But if you feel like it would be too powerful in your game, you could make it; a third your Monk level + your Wisdom Modifier, or anything similar.

My fix: *1) Start by doubling their Ki points.* The more you can cast elemental spells the more you feel like an elemental user. And if it doesn't get in the way of monk skills, better. MORE KI. *2) Rebalance the spells’ cost.* Max ki per spell = ½ monk level (same as video) Balance the ki costs of each spell to the spell level. *3) More concentration spells* eg: The existing “Fangs of the Fire Snake” ability should last for 1 minute, not 1 turn. Have it a concentration spell that you get to keep it active for free (even if you don't attack). Or have it as a concentration spell that requires you to use it each turn. *4) Lots more spells.* If we have x6 spells for each of the 4 elements, that is 24 spells total. More than enough. Most of the “spells” will be actual other spells from other classes. But some of them will be unique abilities to this Monk class. Eg: “Water whip” becomes a reflavored “thorn whip” (Druid cantrip). Eg: “Water arms” becomes similar to the abilities of Ming Hua (Avatar: legend of Korra). You now have a reach of 15ft for 1 minute or until your concentration is broken (as if you are concentrating on a spell). The water arms are treated as your normal arms for all attacks and when interacting with objects, but not for taking damage. *5) You can read and write “Primordial”* I’ll be honest, it is thanks to the video that I thought of this one. *6) Ki-Fueled Strike* Have the Ki-Fueled Strike from the "UA class feature variants" baked into the class. If you spend 1 ki or more as part of your action on your turn, you can then immediately make one unarmed strike as a bonus action. *7) 1st level spell "absorb elements"* Give them a free-to-use absorb elements equal to their wisdom modifier. Have this as a standard ability (3rd level?) and not a 'spell' they need to learn. EG: You can cast "Absorb Elements" at 1st level without expending a spell slot or ki points. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your wisdom modifier. Or at the cost of 1ki point. You regain expended uses when you finish a long rest.

@unwithering5313

3 жыл бұрын

and then allow them to use 1 ki point for each Absorb Elements use after running out of wisdom based uses (just in case) Oh, and some defensive elemental disciplines such as Haste and maybe some healing

@shanerooney7288

3 жыл бұрын

@@unwithering5313 I've updated the answer to include the 1 ki cost on absorb elements. As for defensive abilities: absorb elements. . . Or some of the elemental spells will be defensive in nature. Such as: Create a stone obstacle with AC17 and 20HP. Create the effects of the wind wall spell, but in a 10ft radius around your character. Stone armor. Your AC is now 15 + Wisdom Mod. Duplicate the effects of the earthquake spell. Etc.

I agree with everyone here asking for a copy of this! Please, please, please link a PDF of your version! I love playing monks, and always wanted to try this subclass, but it was terribly underpowered and thus not much fun to play. Thanks for the great content!

My personal ideas for making 4e monk a bit better are 1. Fangs of the Fire Snake which I will rename Fangs of the Elemental Serpents is free to activate and can deal other damage types(cold, thunder and lightning) 2. This one you mentioned so I'm just repeating, after using your action to use elemental disciplines you should still be able to bonus action attack or flurry. 3. At lvl six similarly to EK and AT you should get something that lets you impose disadvantage on saves, my vote would go to just copying EK's Eldritch Strike. 4. More learned disciplines. 5. A few spells such as Warding Wind should be added to the list.

Excellent stuff :)

This is a cool revision. I especially like the option of casting Elemental Weapon on your fists. Very thematic. Although, I have to say, the idea with the stances from the Nerdarchy video had a lot of potential. It's just that the author both seemed to have run out of steam halfway through AND translated some things directly from Avatar the Last Airbender instead of simply using them for inspiration. As soon as I watched it I was inspired to make my own revision of the revision that took each stance and assigned a concept to it. So for example, Earth was protection. It locked you into slower movement but increased your AC. Why give it a super potent ranged attack? So instead of that I had higher levels allow you to add your STR modifier to the damage to really drive home the idea of how earth relies on brute strength and solid ground. I kept the Fire stance largely the same (Focus on high damage, but with a commonly resisted damage type), but reduced the reach of the attacks by to be normal reach (+5 ft.). Air had a huge identity problem, so I reworked most of it and placed its focus on maneuverability. Reduced the cost of the fly by to 0 Ki points but made it a bonus action and gave the unarmed attacks huge range but no extra damage. I believe it was 30 ft. at 3rd level, but it scaled with levels (60 ft. at 6th level, 90 ft. at 11th level). And then at later levels 6-17 I gave it the option to cast more spells than the other stances, but only supporty spells (Fly at level 11 would probably be every DMs nightmare with that attack range :D) With Defence, Damage, and Maneuverability all gone I decided to focus the Water Stance on healing. Now Avatar the Last Airbender would dictate that Water would also give you an arbitrary range on your unarmed strikes, but that seems nonsensical here. So no extra range, the 11th ability to heal at level 6 (but you can use 1 ki point max and the target doesn't add its Con to the heal yet), access to Lesser Restoration. That's not everything, of course. A lot of the cantrips that the Nerdarchy article gave out for free as a bonus action would at best require 1 ki point to use as a bonus action. But I think this would keep cool idea with the stances intact while giving each stance a stronger identity. Although now I just keep thinking how I could incorporate Elemental Weapon into this, but there's no way. Without taking away the extra damage from Fire and Earth stances it would be too OP, and if I gave it to all stances it would make Air even more OP that it may already be.

Amazing work, now I have a desire to play this monk. And for the pdf of all your videos, maybe you can call it the Fix-it Portfolio or something 😂

@NerdImmersion

4 жыл бұрын

I like it, Fix-it-Folio seems like the best option

@Valkaiden

3 жыл бұрын

Is Fix-It-Folio a thing that's coming? :)

I multiclassed into warlock to fix the subclass. You lose a few ki points but gain cantrips, spell slots and invocations in return. Plus you're a monk with hex.

I like your fixes for the most part, but I do want to point out a couple of things. This subclass is sort of like a half-caster warlock when you consider that they are able to get all their ki points back on a short rest and can cast 5th level spells. They can end up casting cone of cold more often than any full caster can per long rest. For the PHB disciplines: Fangs of the Fire Snake -increases by- 10 ft not to 10 ft; and I think the reason Fist of Unbroken Air is both push and knock prone vs Water Whip just pull or knock prone is because if you're going to push someone away from you and potentially your party, you aren't immediately within range to strike them with advantage. If you were to pull and knock prone you would immediately put them into a position they don't want to be in and give your party advantage on them. To change or to and would de-balance these two abilities. You also keep comparing them to ATs and EKs as 1/3 casters, but neither of them can cast a single 5th level spell, which I think is really wherein lies the main problem with wotc's approach to the subclass. They over tuned spell level selection for monk and gave them less good and useful things to "compensate". I think monk should have actually been tuned down for spell level. Their highest level spells should be Control Water, Elemental Bane, Fire Shield, Ice Storm, Stone Shape, Stoneskin, Storm Sphere, Wall of Fire, and Watery Sphere (from PHB). And they should have had the option to cast all of those. Then supplement their 1/3 caster spells with martial prowess as is done with AT and EK. Things like "whenever you use patient defense, the ground within 10ft of you becomes difficult terrain for enemies" or "whenever you throw a piece of ammunition caught with deflect missiles, deal +1d6 elemental dmg, +1d6 elemental dmg per additional ki point spent".

Oh lawd he comin!

I just gave the 4Elemenents monk spell slots (like the Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight, but based on the Warlock). The abilities each level allow the monk to better integrate the casting into their fighting (allowing them to ignore components, have better concentration saves and replace one of their flurry attacks with a cantrip). At higher levels, they are able to convert their Ki into spell slots as well as (at 17th level) learning a 6th level spell.

Pretty solid rework.

I’d like to see your more thorough comments on the Nerdarchy and Reddit reworks.

@karatekoala4270

4 жыл бұрын

They nerdarchy version is dope as shit

Elemental Monk was my first character I ever played. I was too new to know it's shortcomings. Now that I know better, and my DM abides, this will be the way I run it.

This version is definitely stronger, but it’s also sorta the same. Basically every perk is a spell, so you end up as a baseline monk with the fewest spells and slots out of any caster in the game. I’d add in disciplines that act as passives, like warlock invocations, a perk using movement speed (like flying, swimming, and burrowing), and one granting reach to monk weapon attacks. Then you cover the same ground - offense, defense, and appropriate spells - as shadow and open hand, at least.

I have a player who wants to play this subclass because she likes the flavor, but i definitely want to beef it up for her. I'm thinking of giving her the elemental cantrips as you did, letting her have more elemental disciplines (I'm thinking half the level rounded up), and giving some extra passive effects connected to using other monk features (an idea is when you use a ki point to dash with step of the wind, you can make creatures within 5 feet roll a save to, I don't know, avoid being knocked over by the wind propelling you or something).

Shape Flowing River would be godlike at sea, you can create icebergs and royally screw any ship that tries to follow the party.

Could we have this in a DDB Homebrew?

As a hugr Avatar The Last Airbender Fan this is exactly what I would have wanted

Huh. I've been playing my 4 Elements Monk for over 100 hours now up to level 8, and I'm surprised it has such a bad rep. The one homebrew fix we did was allowing all "spells" to count as monk weapon attacks so I could still bonus action unarmed strike afterward. The other thing I did that I think everyone should do who plays this subclass is choose an element and only take spells in that element. It definitely makes the character feel like they have mastery as a monk. The PBH mentions that 'some way of the 4 elements choose one element while others master all 4,' so I think that's why there is the spells that are offered.

Is there any way you can link the doc you made to view? I think it would be very useful to have it.

@leodouskyron5671

4 жыл бұрын

Galv I hope he does but this was the one that he seems to have heavily referenced so you could make those changes he made to your copy of this open source original drive.google.com/file/d/0B1pdYIcfHauwNDM2My1XeWFYSDA/view

Having played a 4E monk for the past year, I can say the amount of attention for fixes it gets is justified. Most of the time it feels like a monk without a subclass in the first place due to the overpriced spell costs. I have used elemental disciplines about 5 times in the character's lifetime. I've recently convinced my DM to switch to the remastered version you showed here. I think the bonus action attack/Flurry provided at level 11 there and 17 in your version comes in a little late in both documents. You add other features at those levels so I think that compensates, but I wish they brought in the bonus action attack thing at level 5-6 when people are picking up extra attack. Casting the spells is an investment in itself, but forgoing up to 4 attacks to do so is almost crippling.

@UltimosGabriel

4 жыл бұрын

Actually, you can talk about the Unearthed Arcana Class Features with your DM. It gives you a gentle boost to it as it let's you punch after using a KI action since level 1.

@AllThingsFascinate

4 жыл бұрын

@@UltimosGabriel where can I find that version? When I look for monk UA I just see new subclasses

@UltimosGabriel

4 жыл бұрын

@@AllThingsFascinate dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/class-feature-variants Follow this link. And I was Wrong, it's since level 2.

@AllThingsFascinate

4 жыл бұрын

@@UltimosGabriel thanks friend :-). Do you have a favorite version of Homebrew four elements? I've been reading through a bunch. My issue, I think, is that even when you reduce cost and increase spell options, it's not necessarily working with the monk class features, or being unique. I do think that class variant helps a lot though.

It’s actually more effective to multi class into other stuff than to go for a elements monk

@krounos1

4 жыл бұрын

@@schemage2210 He means if you want to make an elemental avatar character by default.

@conradkorbol

4 жыл бұрын

Bug bear monk, 2 ki points, I now have 20 foot fire punches for 4 attacks. Sor try but that’s rad and it’s good.

I personally allow this monk to prepare their disciplines

nice

Do you have a shareable link of your pdf? I'm listening to your videos as if they were podcasts and can't really compile your changes on real time, but I'd really like to take a look at them and integrate some version of it to my homebrew campaign

4 element was a cool idea but it doesn't do it justice what I should of been in the first place which is 1/3 caster. Every melee class has one rouge and fighter, and the ranger and paladin have spell casting in base class. This subclass are strong and versatile plus you can make what the subclass gives you with the 4 spell from any class that the 1/3 caster get. Also the class get better as more spells come out and the new feat that give spell casting are learn spell; do I have to say more. Here is my idea for 1/3 caster monk. Wis spell casting ability from the cleric and sorcerer spell list from abjuration and transmutation schools. This may sound strong but hear me out. The rouge subclass is stronger than the Aldrich knight why because the rouge has smaller hit die and lower amor class, now the monk has what the rouge has plus they have no good range option and must be up in melee and for stat heavy class sucks they didn't get a bonus ability score improvement that the rouge and fighter get. Abjuration and transmutation are what the monk is at it core defensive abilities and increase physical abilities. Lv3: 1/3 spell casting feature Eldritch unarmed enhancement: choose a monk weapon, cannot be an intelligent or artifact. Over an hour ritual you change the weapon into magic that is use to enhance you unarmed strikes for example if you chose short sword your unarmed strike gains the finesse and light property and +s or magical effects if magic weapon and can choose to deal pricing damage inted of bludgeoning, this does not change your martial art die you still deal d4 at lv 3 inted of d6 for a short sword. Lv6: Divine reneration you can now pick healing spell from the cleric spell list in addition when ever you target yourself only you can spend a ki point per lv of spell to maximum the healing done Lv11: Aldrich source your ki empower your spell casting around you, while you have at least 1 ki point mounters within 5 feet of you have disadvantage against saving throws against you spells(1/3 caster get a feature like this around this lv) lv17: magic resilience the magic in your body has grated you resistance to magic gain spell resistance. magic evasion when you save against a spell you don't take halve damage on a fail save and on going effect end on a save on your self such as the spell fresh to stone I know little late but with the new book coming out and loving the monk and other 1/3 casters I feel their should be 1/3 caster monk with spell slots that doest use the limited ki as a resource.

Water Whip used to be a bonus action untill they changed it in the errata. i was looking over my old phb as i was watching the video (first print 5e phb).

You should a fix it on all the lack luster spells like find traps, circle of death, mordkieans sword etc

I'd personally prefer the bonus action Unarmed Strike/Flurry of blows come before Elemental Bane. It's a bit weird having something that's typically a core monk feature available so late. Edit: Although, if the Monk variant rule for Ki-fueled Strike becomes official, this does become a little moot. Spending ki points as an action allows a bonus action unarmed strike.

@NerdImmersion

4 жыл бұрын

I mean you could still use flurry of blows/unarmed strike normally without the spellcasting. And if you use Elemental Weapon which is free and lasts an hour, you could have that applied to all your unarmed strikes. I think that helps. I might also adjust it to make Elemental Weapon a bonus action.

The fixes start about 20 minutes in. I just want to note here to make sure I heard right, I'm imagining a 10th level monk that has 10 Ki points per short rest and they can cast two 5th level spells (like burning hands upcasted), That does just make them another warlock of sorts. (Warlocks at 11th level get a third slot, and fourth at 17th level, there is a lot to unpack here) Just wanted to be clear if we do half monk level we are on pacing with a warlock (it varies at a few levels). Monks only know half as many spells though. It's cool being a full caster and a martial character, I mean me and the warlock (probably the bladelock) are going to be good buddies, since we seem to be similar. I'd compare it then, in terms of balance, put the bladelock next to this, they seem to both be Strikers (4e term for damage dealers). All Full Casters (including sorcerers who can do sorcery point shenanigans) are limited on 6th level and higher spells. If you strip away the restriction of maximum 5 points at 17th level (and everything below it) and just have 1/2 monk level, you now become potentially more powerful than any other full caster. Now unlike all the other full casters you, as a monk, can't learn anything past 5th level spells though. Which is in line with the half casters, which is probably what should be aimed at, and if that is the case the limits are: (2nd/3rd Level: 1); (5th Level: 2); (9th Level: 3); (13th Level: 4); and (17th Level: 5); If we are just going right down the Paladin or Ranger list for spell slot progression. According to the original document that is what they did, it would appear. I would think to favor their point restriction over yours, BUT I have playtested neither. So I cannot say what ends up being the balanced choice. Your Elemental Affinity at 6th Level is the Transmutation Wizard's 6th Level Ability (well one of them under Transmuter's Stone). Just pointing it out, I find that mildly amusing.

i mean fangs of the fire snake does have some damage potential. lets say you use it at 6th level: 2 attacks, and each hit can do an extra 1d10 damage. and since it affects all attacks you make that turn it also affects flurry of blows, so you can do 4d6+4d10+4*dex damage. not bad right? that's also 6 ki points. congrats, you're out for less damage then a fireball hitting two targets.

One thing that crossed my mind with Way of the Four Elements is that it consumes their whole subclass feature quota just to get one more spell each time, Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters don't have that issue...

Is there a link to his pdf? I have a new player who is taking this class and I want them to have an enjoyable experience and good spotlight moments...

would you be able to do a straight waterbender build?

Even Kensei gets 10ft reach with attacks (whip as kensei weapon)

What would you think of players getting to prepare an amount of disciplines equal to their wisdom modifier each day? Later levels the maximum would normally be 5 but than players might be able to have their options as and not be restricted to only being able to change them out at certain lvls. This change could effect combat or RP a lot by being able to show your mastery over the elements.

Personally I want to be able to do cool monk stuff, but I don't want to be a spell caster monk. So my approach would be to pretty much remove the spell caster aspect entirely, and instead really simplify it. --- Third level - Spend 1 ki and add either fire, ice, lightning or force damage to your attacks for a minute. Bonus elemental damage scales with your level. Third Level - Also gain access to the mold earth, gust, create flames and shape water cantrips. Sixth Level - Enhance your actions. Fire: Your fists flash with fire. When you use Flurry of Blows, your opponents next attack has disadvantage. Air: You're light as air. When you use Step of the wind, you gain the benefits of dash and disengage. Earth: Become an immoveable object. When you use patient defense, you cannot be knocked prone or moved. Water: Flow around attacks. When you use Deflect Missiles, add your martial arts dice to the damage reduction. Eleventh Level - One Spell per element. Not sure which OR Eleventh Level - Your third level abilities get enhanced. For Ice damage, you also now slow opponents. Force damage, each attack forces a strength save. On a fail target is knocked prone. Lightning damage, your punches can strike the opponent at range. Fire damage, your strikes now hit targets in a 5ft cone centered on your target. Seventeenth Level - You get access to all four investiture spells, which you can cast with Ki. You also get one free casting per day. OR Seventeenth Level - You get access to all four investiture spells. While an investiture spell is active, you can spend ki to change it to a different investiture. ---- This is how I'd want a Four Elements Monk personally. 3rd ensures elemental flavour, while leaving you lots of access to cool monk stuff. 6th just enhances your monk abilities with a minor elemental flair. 11th I listed two options, since I wasn't sure if boosting the 3rd level feature even more would be too much or not, so figured spells would be a safe alternative. Same with 17th, had no clue if changing the active investiture once per turn, or for a minor ki cost, would be UP or OP, so listed a safer 'one free use' alternative there as well.

@TheAusturtle

4 жыл бұрын

I actually like your idea for the sixth level feature, its not only thematic and simple, but it keeps it "monk" instead of psuedo caster feel, and is also unique to the class. Sure 4 elements cant potentiallly 1 hit something but that feature alone would make 4 elements unique and offer more utility.

@Abyssionknight

4 жыл бұрын

​@@TheAusturtle Thanks! The sixth level feature is my favourite too. Not the most powerful feature, but I was still really happy with how I managed to tie it into core monk features. Looking back at it I do think the earth part of that feature needs a little love though. I was thinking of changing it to: " Earth: Become an immoveable object. When you use patient defense, you gain +1ac and cannot be knocked prone or moved." It felt very situational, especially since you rarely know when you need to avoid being knocked prone / moved, so a +1ac would make the feature more useful in general.

@AllThingsFascinate

4 жыл бұрын

@@Abyssionknight hey, this is interesting. I've been wanting something that keeps it more "monk" and works with monk skills, rather than just being a bad caster. Different elements could add a little utitilty, or damage, or range, whatever. Really good thoughts ☺️

Was the finished document ever produced/completed in any form?

And then Tasha's went and basically said "You cast a spell? Here's an extra attack."

Link to your copy? I gotta make my own version now. Would love to borrow your stuff!

Ehhh.... I feel like they dropped a method for recharging Ki points from this sub-class. If the was a class ability that granted limited ki points in combat, the elemental monk wouldn't be so vastly outclassed, even by other monks. Although they're not casters, The Elemental Fist could clearly compliments spellcasters that throw elemental spells. Just homebrew an ability that gives them 1-3 ki points (depending on the spell level) whenever someone casts within a certain distance of them. Mayber the spell lvl/2 and round up. The distance might be something like their level x 2, so at 3rd level, when they get the ability to be an elemental monk, that's basically a 12 ft diameter. Tie it to a single elemental energy source (Fire, Cold, lightning, Thunder, and Acid), that can be expanded as they adventure. Make it a reaction instead of a bonus action.

@shanerooney7288

4 жыл бұрын

That is flavorful and adds synergy. But it also sounds over powered. What about abusing elemental cantrips? What about friendly vs enemy spells? How does absorbing a fireball assist with making a water attack? Personally - I'd just double the monk's Ki point limit. Or if you really want the flavor of absorbing elemental attacks.... 1st level spell "absorb elements".... Give them a free-to-use absorb elements equal to their wisdom modifier.

@walterbunn280

4 жыл бұрын

​@@shanerooney7288 My thought wasn't so much "absorbing and converting" as it was "elements cause more elements". Cantrips are too low of a spell to result in a ki pool recharge. The recharge wasn't meant to stop someone else from casting either; it was merely meant to provide a ki point boost if someone else did cast around them. Friendly spells or not-friendly spells could provide the boost, but the spell would still go off. If that spell deals damage to the monk, it'd still deal damage even if that spell would cause the monk to recharge a ki point. With these sort of constraints, it could still be abused (having an allied caster cast fireball and then recharging enough to cast wall of fire), but I kinda think that would be more inline with synergizing the party. The elemental resistance should be something that is freely provided simply for attuning to an element. Especially considering that "Elemental Adept" is a feat open to any character that wants to use it that effectively strips a target of any resistance to that element.

@shanerooney7288

4 жыл бұрын

@@walterbunn280 Absorb Elements is more-or-less in line with what you want. An elemental attack grants you additional power. The elemental resistance should NOT be something that is freely provided simply for attuning to an element. Free resistances to multiple damage types is OP. If you went Tiefling (fire resistance) 10th level Twilight Druid (necrotic and radiant resistance) with the feat Infernal Constitution (Cold and Poison resistance) That is 5 resistances, but requires a race, a feat, and a class feature. You're offering x4 resistances for just a class feature. and anyway, at 18th level you get "Empty Body" which can grant you ALL resistances for a short time. So the early resistances take away from the late game abilities.

@walterbunn280

4 жыл бұрын

​@@shanerooney7288 Ehh... granting free use of a first level spell (absorb elements is a first level artificer spell... ) is also kinda broken, since that's quite a bit more for a freebie than the shadow monk's minor illusion, but it might be equivalent to the openfist monk's martial arts.

@shanerooney7288

4 жыл бұрын

@@walterbunn280 Free use for a limited number of uses equal to a stat modifier. Thus not really "free" It falls in line with other features. Such as "Hunter's Sense" from Monster Slayer Ranger. Or "Gathered Swarm" from swarmkeeper Ranger. Or "hidden paths" for circle of Dreams Druid. Or "Fungal Infestation" from Circle of Spores Druid. ..... and so on.

I’m having trouble accessing the link for the google drive. Anyone else experiencing this?

What about 4 different single type, for the benders.

Why don’t they just give the monk way of the elements spell slots like an eldritch knight

That bonus action unarmed strikes comes on way to late at 17th. I would move that to 6th level

The WotFE monk is an interesting class and I feel we should look towards the design philosophy of the class as whole instead of going into the nitty-gritty. The entire reason this subclass exists is to be the monk subclass that covers the monk’s weaknesses instead of doubling down on what makes it good. This can be seen in the different abilities at lower level which most of them focus on increasing reach and moving opponents or causing the prone condition, most of these are entirely off-limits to monks due to the fact that they aren’t going to be able to use fancy weapons or have a good Str mod for shoving the opponent. But I feel the real reason why this subclass exists is to make monks useful in scenarios against multiple enemies. The base monk can stunlock a single opponent with the greatest of ease, so the design philosophy was, “Why do we need to make single target better when the base class already does so good.” Is this an accurate assumption? Definitely not, every class needs a bonus in melee but just don’t lose the thought process of what the subclass is supposed to be. In combats with multiple enemies use your aoe’s, in combats against a lesser number of enemies who are much larger use your ki points on your regular monk abilities. I feel the main reason why the class feels hampered is because it suffers from similar problems that warlocks feel, monks get all ki points back on a short rest, just like warlocks with their spell slots, but not many parties nowadays short rest as much as was intended when the 5e was created. WotC intentionally didn’t want this class to be the greatest at spellcasting or the ki abilities, because it could’ve overshadowed the warlock. This is just something I like to keep in mind when I look at the class and if I were to dm for it I would tell the party to be more willing to do short rests.

Is there a current place to find this?

@Nerd Immersion, I know this is kind of a dead or past topic, but what is wrong with making this monk a quarter caster much like Arcane Trickster Rogue or the Eldritch Knight Fighter, give the monk spell slots and cantrips, and later on in the level up system for this monk, one of there tradition abilities at level 11 or 17 allows the monk to substitute x number of key points to cast a spell instead of spending a spell slot? The system at this level could be simple such as "X key points equals Spell Level + 2." Using this ability you can only cast the spell at its base level and cannot spend additional key points to up cast. What are your thoughts @Nerd Immersion and Community?

Has this been posted anywhere?

My fix: all disciplines cost half the ki (rounded up), and can be used as part of the attack action. I think it fixes everything from action economy synergy to up-casting limits.

In the Evil Elemental they should have put some monk traits there. Just like they added some totem barbarian options in SCAG. My way of the element monk fix is just give them more spells . let them choose any spell that deal elemental damage and give them another ki pool called elemental ki. and they use that ki for tiher spells and can use normal ki too. what WOTC i think over estimate is the short rest mechanic. because yes 4el monk technically can get more spellcasting if they get more short rests. but thats not really how most tables do things.

@shanerooney7288

4 жыл бұрын

Instead of having 2 ki pools, I'd just double their ki. With 2 ki pools you are 1/2 elemental 1/2 monk. With 1 ki pool at double the size, you can choose to be 1/2 elemental 1/2 monk. Or all elemental, or even all monk. It takes less hassle to keep track of the ki, while also giving more flexibility. Win-Win.

@optimus2200

4 жыл бұрын

​@@shanerooney7288 No. because this will give more advantage over normal monks. a separate ki that either half you level refresh on a short rest or same as level but refresh at a long rest for spells and effects. is more fair. and it isn't really that hard to keep track to another resource. you can call it Ka. you get the Ki and the Ka. Ez

@optimus2200

4 жыл бұрын

Like you can use Ki as Ka but you cant use Ka as Ki. so that way we give you a resource for spells and if be needed to tap into the ki in risky situations. you can.

@shanerooney7288

4 жыл бұрын

@@optimus2200 You'd only be better at doing 'Monk' things if you sacrifice your points for doing 'Elemental' things. We both agree to have more points to throw into elemental spells. So we agree it isn't OP to let the monk do lots of Elemental stuff. Where we disagree is that you think it is OP to allow the monk to do lots of Monk stuff. You gain more monk stuff at the LOSS of the elemental stuff. And frankly the elemental stuff is just more powerful. Stunning strike for 1 Ki vs Hold person for 3 ki (Clench of the North Wind) Melee range and 1 turn, vs 60ft range and 1-10 turns. Some times x3 stunning strikes would be better, but Hold person has better range and *may last significantly longer. Patient defence for 1 ki vs Stone Skin for 5 ki (Eternal Mountain Defense ) 1 turn dodge/dash vs 1 hour of resistance to nonmagical bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage. Is dodging 5 times really better than having multiple resistances for 1 hour? So much better that you'd consider it OP?

@optimus2200

4 жыл бұрын

​@@shanerooney7288 tbh the monk base kit IMO is significantly stronger than phb 4ele monk. stunning strike 1 ki PER HIT so you get more chances to apply a stun (4 times) rather than the only once or suck. which is more important agnst bosses who "mini hold person with quad disadvantage and you get to do damage everytime" and it last until the end of the monk turn rather than they can save at the end of there turn and the monk dont benefit from it. the pro that upcasting hold person can target more people and it is more potent effect do not get me wrong. Patience defence you can use it AFTER attacking twice and adv on dex save without concentration. rather than you might lose concentration as you get hit. and Empty Body at 18th level, is far way more powerful than stone skin and it is only 4 ki. for a minute no con. and its just one level away from Stone skin. Stone skin last longer but how many fights last one hour or when do you get into more than one fight within an hour rather rarely ? TBH I dont know what they were smoking when they chose this as a possible spell.

Just so you know, you can do 5 Ki Points on Fangs of the Fire Snake dealing a total extra of 4d10 Fire.

@NerdImmersion

4 жыл бұрын

It does not state that, it just says " if you spend 1 ki point when the attack hits, it also deals an extra 1d10 fire damage." Compare this to the others that say: "plus an extra 1d10 bludgeoning damage for each additional ki point you spend."

@keeganmbg6999

4 жыл бұрын

Nerd Immersion That’s a fair point and sadly makes that subclass all the weaker in my opinion. Well shit. Thank you Ted!

@NerdImmersion

4 жыл бұрын

@@keeganmbg6999 allowing that could actually help things out a little bit

@AllThingsFascinate

4 жыл бұрын

@@NerdImmersion it seems like paying taxes for flavor, compared to the damage output of just attacking twice and then using flurry of blows. Open hand gets to so all the damage, and the crowd control. I'm not sure why 4 elements needs to give up all the damage to get cc. I appreciate what you've done here, but I feel like the class is missing class features, uniqueness. It needs an entire rebuild from the ground up. If you ever did that sort of thing, a total redesign rather than fix, I'd love to hear it. I know that's a lot of work.

It might be complicated for the average player/to put in a book, but I'd make it a 1/3 caster with 4 stances. You can switch between the 4 stances as an action or a rest or something. Each stance has a limited spell list and let's say 2 other abilities tied to the element (maybe one that uses Ki and one that doesn't)

@shanerooney7288

4 жыл бұрын

That feels clunky. Turn 1: "I attack you with water power" Turn 2: "I'll keep attacking you with water for the duration of the entire fight, because I don't want to waste an action to change stance"

@ryansprenkle6356

4 жыл бұрын

I agree it's a bit awkward, but I really feel like the best way to go for this is to straight up make a 1/3 caster and I was trying to figure a way to not give a so many spells and abilities all at once. I don't agree with the "nothing else does this, so this can't do this" philosophy though. I actually like the idea of switching abilities at a rest over as an action . That's something they've been doing more and more lately (though not on the scale I'm imagining for this) and honestly I feel like it appropriately balances it, since you're abilities, especially in our of combat situations are more limited. And I feel like then it's similar to preparing spells that way Just instead of individual spells, you pick from 1 of 4 lists that have predetermined spells.

@ryansprenkle6356

4 жыл бұрын

Honestly, you two had me discouraged about my idea for a moment, and then as I started to explain my thoughts more...I'm actually more confident it's a good idea than when I started

@shanerooney7288

4 жыл бұрын

@@ryansprenkle6356 What benefit is there to switching? If there is something to be gained from switching then people will switch. It it just eats up an action people will choose one discipline and stay with it for the entire fight. I assume you want something like the Eladrin (Elf sub-class) who can change their season affiliation every long rest. If it takes an action to switch, that eats into action economy. If it takes a long rest to switch, then you can't use multiple elements in a single fight.

@ryansprenkle6356

4 жыл бұрын

@@shanerooney7288 sorry if I wasn't clear before. I get kind of wordy sometimes. I decided that it's better as a rest feature (idk if short or long) than as an action.

Isn't the main issue in comparing this monk to an Eldritch Knight / Arcane Trickster (1/3 casters) that the Monk recovers their Ki points on a short rest while those other two classes recover their spell slots on a short rest? Without capping the number of Ki that can be spent to upcast, doesn't that just incentivize the player to 'go nova' every time and just short rest to get all expended Ki right back? Maybe I'm missing something but that seems like a glaring difference to take into account.

I find this interesting but the one thing that makes the spells cost so much more for them is that they get all their abilities back on a short rest rather then warlock only has 2 slots most of their leveling and druids and wizards can only regain half their level in spell levels. I agree they need to have some non spell abilities but the wizard can only get back 2 spells level back at level 5 but the monk has all of them back. I could see letting them make an off hand attack after using an elemental ability at level 7 just like the Eldritch Knight can do the same thing with cantrips. I would rather see this sub class split into 4 way of air, way of earth, way of fire, and way of water this would let them center in on what they do and give hard abilities not based on spells.

@NerdImmersion

4 жыл бұрын

True but at level 5 a wizards has 4 attacking cantrips, and 4 1st level, 3 2nd level and 2 3rd level spells. And at 5, a wizard gets back 3 slots (Arcane recovery rounds up). Also you'd only have at most 2 total spells with my fix at level 5, assuming you chose disciplines that duplicated spells.

@JCinLapel

4 жыл бұрын

@@NerdImmersion I think this class needed 1/3 casting and evocation abjuration from the druid spell list like the Eldritch Knight gets to wizard

@NerdImmersion

4 жыл бұрын

@@JCinLapel see that sounds good in theory but like 80% of all good druid spells are concentration

Do you not have water ?

I loved watching your take on it but I think the concept was doomed from the beginning. The last air bender was (IMHO) the clear source material and even in that source material the ability to bend was not learned - just the techniques. Basically the benders were sorcerers with an elemental bloodline and they learned martial arts as a focus for there abilities. If you do it that way the entire thing becomes much simpler to do.

I feel like if I wanted to make the avatar it would be easier to do so with a sorcerer or even a warlock. Maybe a combo of both. Its sad

I would just double there ki points and update there elemental cantrip.

hey, look, an actual class that NEEDS to be fixed!

@NerdImmersion

4 жыл бұрын

Everything I've fixed is because I've been asked to fix it multiple times, by multiple people. And then with since research has multiple discussions about it needing to be revisited

Hey Guys here: drive.google.com/file/d/10psiHGR7vFrntcB-ycKgeof0mB-6bGJr/view?usp=sharing i made a doc of the document of ted maybe is some miss writing english is not my firts languaje maybe in the future is a hero without a cape to make this doc a pdf in the homebrery and not i still learning to program there anyway enjoy your new avatar adventures guys

@UieSkyfang87

3 жыл бұрын

*gives you a cape* For you... Hero...

a generic monk can use those 6 ki points to do an average of 150 damage.

From what I can tell, Wot4E monks can cover one of the class's weaknesses; enemy hordes. Fighters, paladins, barbarians and rogues also suffer from this weakness. Wot4E rounds out your options in this regard, as do Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters. As far as resources go, treat them like a Pact of the Blade Warlock. Good at melee, limited ammunition for your moments of awesome. I personally like long-lasting options for this playstyle, like Wall of Fire.

Going thru all the other subclasses was a bit much

@NerdImmersion

4 жыл бұрын

...I didn't. I left several subclasses out of this entirely. How are you going to make a case of what needs to be adjusted if you don't talk about to compare it against?

@TwinSteel

4 жыл бұрын

Nerd Immersion you managed it in your sun soul monk video

@NerdImmersion

4 жыл бұрын

@@TwinSteel because the class needed minor tweaking, not a major overhaul

Way of the four elements Is the warlock to an eldritch knights wizard, my solution is to make their spells the highest spell level like warlock. Give them similar rules.

@NerdImmersion

4 жыл бұрын

It could work. It's a thought I entertained but given all the stuff monks can do inherently it seemed like it might be too much. Also it would be such a drastic change it would likely not have gone over well

@GunnarWahl

4 жыл бұрын

Nerd Immersion i also don’t care much for the, “give them spells” solution. Similar to the new unearth arcana features that can be refreshed by spending a spell slot, maybe a solution is simply “the first use is free, than spend points for more uses.” For more features like water whip I should specify

@shanerooney7288

4 жыл бұрын

You can cast "Absorb Elements" at will without expending a spell slot. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your wisdom modifier. You regain expended uses when you finish a long rest.

420th like

@NerdImmersion

4 жыл бұрын

Nice

Gotta be honest, I thought this was a fine class, I'm curious was opinions on 4 elements being unbalanced.

@CurlyHairedRogue

4 жыл бұрын

Kyle Thomas major sticking point here was a lack of synergy between the base class abilities and the subclass abilities, as well as a distinct lack of stuff the monk can do for free. It’s stifling when your class and your subclass constantly clash like that.

Personally I think your version gives WAY too much straight at 3rd level, four good cantrips, (even wizards don't have 4 cantrips at level 3) and not just that but you can also cast them as bonus actions when they usually take standard action, and on top of that a very useful first level spell, and then on top of that two discplines. I think more sensible would be to give a choice of one of those cantrips, or at most two, and make the absorb elements one of the discplines they can choose rather than something they get for free. The way you have set it would basically be something everyone dips 3 levels in to get all those abilities.

@Mortlupo

2 жыл бұрын

Yes but those four cantrips are all non-damaging cantrips...they're fluff cantrips for flavor.

90% of the comments: Is there a PDF of this? You should compile all of your changes into a book and then publish it lol.

@NerdImmersion

4 жыл бұрын

Its coming!

Each time people try to fix this sub class feels like it should be new class and doesn't fix all the problems y dont they just make it 1/3 caster like the eldritch knight or arcane trickster, since that what he is campare to and is meet to be; make it use the wizards spells list transmutation and evocation since that what the most of the spell they get I know few spells dont fit but should not be a problem use wisdom inted of int. Give them good useful and flavorful ability at lv 3 , at 6 the ability the eldritch knight but let it be Martial art or furry after cantrip and improve to spell at 17, 11 around this lv both classes have ways to give disadvantage to spell dcs, and ok ability 1 per rest or ki cost ability at 17

@NerdImmersion

4 жыл бұрын

So you want it to make it a clone of Eldritch Knight? The number 3 most requested class that people says need to be fixed?

@hectoravila4682

4 жыл бұрын

@@NerdImmersion I'm saying everything the 4e monk does can be done way better just with the lv 3 spell casting feture same spells u can choose from and more options than having just 5 and no ki points spend which is the biggest problem. Know the lv 7 eldritch knight ability seems weak for a fighter because they get 4 atk for one but that ability seem like a monk ability seem fit a magical monk martial arts plus u can stun and are only losing 2 ark inted of 4 and every subclass has at least 1 weak ability. Now thinking about what u wrote about a clone, yea if the eldritch knight subclass would have been a perfect 4e monk just change the 15 lv ability to cost 3 ki when u use lv 2 or hier spell slots as a bonus action and let be wis base class