nonat: "the fighter is way too good, Paizo loves the fighter way too much" also nonat: "why do all these cool feats have the Press trait, they'd be so much stronger without it :( "

@Nonat1s

3 жыл бұрын

Don't you dare use my own words against me 😂

@canhaoambulante9329

3 жыл бұрын

The press trait is sad ( ._.)

@cheezeofages

3 жыл бұрын

@@Nonat1s In actuality it works interestingly from a balance perspective. Fighters have +2 accuracy, so they can do the Press more consistently than most classes excluding the flurry ranger. It also somewhat creates interesting interactions with chaining crowd control moves. If, for example, you hit a guy with Snagging Strike you flat-foot, then chain in a Combat Grab with an agile weapon, +2 for fighterdom + 2 effectively from FF +1 effectively from Agile = MAP neutralized. So you've attacked twice at the bonus the game is balanced around you having (and one at +2 higher) and maybe grabbed them. Though the FF doesn't stack, snagging strike doesn't go away when they break the grab so there is two layers of FF they have to spend two actions to get rid of completely. And Escape has the Attack keyword so if they even try to break the grab they lower their accuracy. LAYERS. Plus if you have Sudden Charge instead you can SC into flanking instead of moving + Snagging. OPTIONS.

@megavore97

3 жыл бұрын

@@cheezeofages exactly, the press trait is there for balance reasons. The fighter’s second strike is effectively a -3 for any other class and if you look at a feat like Quick Reversal, you get two attacks for one action on enemies that are flanking you, which is REALLY STRONG. It’s balanced by the press trait and the fact that it’s somewhat situational.

@thunderstorm9541

2 жыл бұрын

@@cheezeofages hey uh... What's MAP mean in this context?

I mean you don't even need intelligence fighter, wisdom fighter for nature and religion also works well for combat assessment purposes ;D

@Nonat1s

3 жыл бұрын

Yo, true!! Actually that'd be really cool as a Wild Warrior who knows everything about the forest!

@cyberninjazero5659

3 жыл бұрын

@@Nonat1s So a Ranger?

@danieledman5826

2 жыл бұрын

@@cyberninjazero5659 Except mechanically sound.

@harperthegoblin

2 жыл бұрын

@@danieledman5826 but rangers are super good in Pathfinder. This isn't d&d 5e

@danieledman5826

2 жыл бұрын

@@harperthegoblin I think it's mostly that flurry ranger loses out against the fighter, but I will admit I had underestimated the Precision Ranger.

Nonat's BBEG is the truck

@WiseOwl_1408

Жыл бұрын

What creepy internet fetish is that?

YEAH! CLASS GUIDE IS BACK BABY!!

@Nonat1s

3 жыл бұрын

WHOO!!!

In slight defense of press actions , fighters already have a +2 to hit over all of the released classes. So flat footed for fighters is usually in practice a +4

My favorite part about fighters is that Deadly and Fatal weapons become just plain silly. Stacked with maybe Frightened-1 and Flat-Footed, then wow it really gives the feeling of +5 to attack with that excellent proficiency. A level 1 character with a +4 Ability can have an accuracy feeling like 4+4+1+2+1=12 to hit at a point when 15 is not an unreasonable AC for an enemy to have.

One neat thing about Fighters is that, because of the way their Weapon Mastery & Weapon Legend features work, they are pretty good recipients for archetypes like Mauler or Martial Artist that boost your proficiency with certain weapons. You can be a master in bows, and the mauler archetype will extend that mastery to two-handed weapons as well.

1:00 Intro 2:57 discussion of non-feat class features 10:16 - Feat Discussion start/Level 1 Feats 18:00 Level 2 24:04 Level 4 29:14 Level 6 35:20 Level 8 39:51 Level 10 45:07 Level 12 48:53 Level 14 53:37 Level 16 (bonus hoot) 55:40 Level 18 56:54 Level 20

Fighter man! Fighter man! Does whatever the brawl demands Hit some stuff, crit some more Of the combat he is the lord Look out! Here comes the Fighter maaan!

@nicolasvillasecaali7662

3 жыл бұрын

Hammer, flails / Bows and shields On your hands they are master-swords Evil lords, bandit mobs Against all you stand above This class! Have all the damage to shine When for the cheat it's the time Here comes the Fighter Maaaan!!!

39:00 You forgot to mention that you can use both Felling Strike and Sudden Leap at the same time for 3 actions. Which for a melee Fighter is pretty strong, being able to jump 10 meters into the air and make a flying enemy fall because of your attack, is a pretty cool scene.

Press is better than it sounds because the failure result makes it so the multiple attack penalty gamble is lessened and you still get nice fun affects despite basically missing. Good consistence insurance and not to mention fighter is usually at a permanent +2. :3 Thanks for the awesome video like always!

@bookwormbeth380

3 жыл бұрын

I was literally about to make this comment as well, I'm still 15 minutes away from the end of the video

Just a head's up Nonat, Sudden Leap has another special feature. If you have Felling Strike you can spend an additional action for Sudden Leap to make your attack the Felling Strike to knock a flying enemy down. It mentions it on Archive of Nethys.

I think you're SUPER underestimating Press Actions? They're certainly not great with other classes, but this is the FIGHTER we're talking about. They functionally have a +2 bonus to all attacks compared to any other class, which means their second attack is essentially at -3, or -1 with flanking via the math. I have a Bladed Scarf fighter in my game, and she's a nightmare to foes because of brutish shove + reach + AoO. She also gets a ton of use out of Precise Strike also whenever there is no better option for her than 3-attacking, as well as tripping foes that now have to deal with her to get up. She is a master of board control and using the 'duds' you're talking about.

@nicholasromero238

3 жыл бұрын

My sister is running a brutish shove reach fighter in my campaign, and she's an absolute beast. She's got amazing control abilities and damage output using those press abilities.

@davidwilliams4837

3 жыл бұрын

Sounds like an awesome character concept.

@saprone8885

Жыл бұрын

Aren't feats like Lunge and Knockdown not more reliable at triggering AoO with a reach weapons?

Shout out to Moonlight Maps for sponsoring this video! Their maps are seriously high quality, yall. At least head over and check out their website. They've got some incredible ones available! moonlight-maps.com/

@arcanjosna

3 жыл бұрын

Ill gonna checkit out.

Now, do the ranger for me. RANGER. Ya hear me? Ranger.

@joehill6916

3 жыл бұрын

Yes Ranger please!

24:05 rebounding toss is captain america's feat.

Something else with the Triple Shot feat: it allows your shots to now target the same creature, which is pretty big against single targets you want dead.

I think the company that drives that truck must run lawnmowers in my neighborhood! Seriously, I'm recording!

Love that you're doing the class videos again! Quick note, triple shot actually requires that you use a extra action to get the third short at the -4 penalty 👍So it is 3 attacks for 3 actions, but at a net positive still 😑😑

31:02 you were talking about the swashbuckler feat Disarming Flair actually there. vanilla disarm is worse, believe it or not! it lasts until the *start* of the enemy's turn, so that means if you don't crit succeed that disarm check, that enemy isn't getting the penalty to attack on their turn, and they don't need to spend resources to re-affirm their grip. it would only apply on reactions before the start of their turn, and only help other players who try and disarm the character.

Great video. About Press though I have a slight disagreement. Aside from a few press actions that are pretty bad, a fighter is still the best class to use Press actions. Since they have +2 to hit compared to everyone else, their MAP is functionnaly -3 and not -5 compared to other martials. -2 with an agile weapon and -1 if they have the feat to improve their agile trait. So their accuracy on second attacks is still pretty high ! Even more so when some of those Press actions are against flat footed or frightened targets.

@Sombre_gd

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly. And therefore risk of crit failing is so low. And fighters usually just go "I attack 3 times" in his turn, because they got so high chances to hit and not much else to do in their turn

i already am a moonlight maps patreon but great to see you guys working together, his foundry-ready content is amazing!

Isn't that press trait essentially to keep the fighter balanced? With agile grace they'd be -3 for your finesse weapons, which doesn't seem so bad considering the fighter proficiency bonus.

No lie, I finished your wizard video deep dive just before this, and as it was ending, I thought "Hey I want to do the fighter one". I'm listening on my phone. And this video auto filled next. My phone KZread listens to me lol.

THANK YOU NO NAT. Been waiting for this one forever finally my fav class in your guides. Huzzah

I'm so glad you did it. I have benn waiting for this as im rolling a fighter next. much love to you

Finally Nonat1 reviewed his favorite class xD

I love your work my dude. I'd really enjoy seeing your take on how Wild druids are and where they fit into the 2e style of things.

I like these vids. Thanks for doing this instead of dropping the series! They help lots!

Brutish Shove does have a niche use in "I [ready action] my sneak attack for when the opponent becomes flat footed" allowing it to open an opponent up to be sneak attacked by a group of waiting rogues as these ready actions will occur during the fighter's turn while the enemy is flatfooted, but there's much better and more reliable ways to do this IMO.

@Dr_Robin_Zoro

Жыл бұрын

Or AoO of an ally

Totally agree on revealing stab. It being a feat is just... what? lol. Guys, I've trained super hard for fighting against an invisible opponent and I've learned a super secret technique. Get this. I let go of the handle. MAD SKILLS.

Just mousing over this video in my subscriptions list gives the perfect Nonat1s gif. I could watch it all day.

Nonat wakes up, chooses violence, slots in his fury barbarian levels, and reads fighter.

I’ve been waiting! 😭 I love these videos ngl. I know they aren’t your favorite to do anymore but I watch every second of these deep dives in awe lol Edit: for context, I’ve never played pathfinder lol only D&D 5e

Happy to see you getting back to the deep dives. While I've liked the "Sit and Talk About Gaming" posts, and used the "Role/Roll" with my players... the deep dives are what brought me to the table. 👍🏿

I like your deep dives soooo much!

My 1st Pathfinder 2E character is going to be a skeleton clown fighter with a sword and shield. So this video is going to hopefully help me figure out what to do to make Basil Funnybone the best he can be.

I would love to see some of the adventure path feats covered cause some of them are hilariously strong

I just checked the length of the video. How does it take an hour to say "Get +2 to attack. Do whatever you want, because you have +2 to attack. Crit everything. Win."

@Nonat1s

3 жыл бұрын

Well the class features take about 8 minutes to explain. It the damn 300 FEATS that take the other 52 minutes! 😂

@Aw3som3-117

3 жыл бұрын

@@Nonat1s Ah, I see. So what you're saying is "Do whatever you want, because you have +2 to attack" Takes a reaallllly long time to say when you have to list out everything that falls under "whatever you want."

@justincampbell5987

3 жыл бұрын

Yet left out the everstand feats

@JacksonOwex

3 жыл бұрын

Because I like MEAT!!!! This was definitely MEATY!!!

Clarification: Exacting Strike's failure effect still works on a critical failure. If an ability does not spell about a specific critical failure effect, then "Failure" is all it counts as. This is not rare -- look at Strikes: those don't have a critical failure effect, either.

@Nonat1s

3 жыл бұрын

Nope, press actions are an exception. "Some actions with the press trait also grant an effect on a failure. The effects that are added on a failure don't apply on a critical failure."

@ronaldsanfran

3 жыл бұрын

@@Nonat1s Ah! Something new every day

I really appreciate these videos as a new player, rogue is still my favorite

Brutish shove could be very good on a polearm user with a reach weapon. Trip on your first action, then follow up with brutish shove. Now they are in your reach, on the ground, while you are (hopefully) out of their reach. And unless they stay prone, they WILL eat an AoO from you.

@peterstedman6140

10 ай бұрын

Yeah I want to do this for my next fighter

Counterpoint to what was said about Revealing Stab at the end, why wouldn't a fighter taking that feat not have extra small weapons that could be easily dumped/replaced to use for those situations?

@bobokapi

3 жыл бұрын

You could do that, but you would have a lower chance of hitting (no item bonus to hit)

@harperthegoblin

2 жыл бұрын

@@bobokapi that's why you offhand those, and buy those rings that copy fundamental runes. Hold a primary enchanted weapon in one hand, and have the other use disposable weapons

@SerDerpish

Жыл бұрын

I’m pretty sure this is why every PC regardless of class carries a dagger around

44:22 improved fighter flexibility allows you to pick that one afterwards without wasting a class feat.

Love these sooooooo happy they are back!!!!!!!!!!! 😆😆😆😆

Yeaaah Brutish Shove is super niche. Only situation where it would be worth it is something like "okay I'm gonna brutish shove enemy to rogue's ready attack" but that would be too complicated to set up to be worth it and not super likely to happen because its press trait

@canhaoambulante9329

3 жыл бұрын

It really could be just a flourish trait instead of the press trait. It would be so much better.

@megavore97

3 жыл бұрын

It’s fine, I played through Age of Ashes with it and it works well for when there’s environmental hazards or you want to waste enemy actions. The press trait really isn’t that big of a deal since the fighter’s attack bonus is so good.

Ah looking the cheating class. We love these. Im glad to see deep dives back!

It wouldn't be a Nonat1 video if there wasn't a truck in the background

@Nonat1s

3 жыл бұрын

I was about ready to jump out the window and body slam it.

One thing i noticed is there are several fighter feats that are in essence "2 actions to get a weapon groups crit spec" swipe is axes for example

What a great part 1 for this class, when is part 2 coming out? :D

Certain strike can be combined with exacting strike and any forceful weapon to potentially get full bonus damage from forceful at only -5 to hit.

That truck had the biggest backup I've ever heard 😂

I feel like its important to state for the record that if you actually do the math, Power Attack is probably the worst 1st level fighter feat. At pretty much every point of the game it is mathematically worse to use Power Attack than it is to simply attack twice. At levels 1-3 it sometimes breaks even. Once you get a striking weapon it is almost always inferior. With its improvement feat, against high level enemies with resistances, it is occasionally better than just 2 attacks.

Great guide video. Are you going to consider the Ruby Phoenix capstone feats going forward... also, Sever Space seems like fun for the right build.

This is why we are here Nonat!

1:43 Best part of the whole video!!!

Bro im converting from 5e to PF2E and as a Fighter main, this is almost everything I expected out of a fighter in 5e.

20:53 I can actually see this feat work for Reach Fighters. Action 1: Strike, Action 2: Use Brutish Shove, the opponent is pushed 5feet back. Use your last action to step away. If they want to attack you they most likely have to provoke an attack of opportunity. If they want to attack more than once, that is.

Dude, your "love" for the fighter comes through very well. Good video!

@Nonat1s

3 жыл бұрын

Yup. That's me. LOVE the fighter. SUCH A GREAT CLASS. NO SARCASM WHATSOEVER.

Exacting Strike is great if you play one of them crit-fishing fighters with say, a great pick or ogre hook. If the enemy is debuffed and or you are buffed, opting for Exacting Strike for Attack 2 and or 3 is statistically a great option.

@austinobst8989

3 жыл бұрын

Plus it's a great option for forceful weapons

I'm so new to Pathfinder. That I'm sure commonly used phrases everybody knows about but I need to look into every single one of them. Flat-footed now I need to watch a video about flat-footed. Lol just to make sure I got it down right

Thank you!!

Savage Critical it's a decent feat, remember, you always have more to-hit bonus than everyone else and those second and third attack could hit with a 19, if they are a success, critical. Also, Smash From the Air SOUNDS cool, but tell me, how many spells require an attack roll and how many caster enemies use them?

Wiat. He does these all in one take? Huh. That makes these much more interesting. Silly, but admirable.

@Nonat1s

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, haha. I find it difficult to stop halfway through and get back into my flow on a future recording.

The wait is OVEEER!

IT'S BACK, BABYYYYYYY Time to see my Dwarf Dagger Fighter is actually decent!

29:28 thank you for agreeing with me on AWT being able to make your advanced weapons get to legendary. HeroLab does not seem to agree with us there

I'm disappointed with the lack of mention of Everstand Stance and Everstand Strike. Take a Tower Shield Add Shield Boss BECOME THE WALL

Press trait isn't as bad as you make it seem to be. It would be worse if it wasn't there. Just imagine all those extra feat effects ON TOP of the fighter's strike with the ahead-of-the-curve accuracy without MAP.

@askaveng7911

3 жыл бұрын

Also, some of the fighter feats with press trait still outclass some other fighter feats without it. It may seem strange, but the Exacting Strike allows you to deal more damage than the Power Attack in almost any situation (so if you only have 2 actions to strike, striking twice is usually a better option than a Power Attack). Though it does not make an Exacting Strike a good feat for every fighter, it's kind of a version of a Double Slice for the poor

I don't mind the press trait on Exacting Strike. Mostly because an optimized fighter is not going to miss the first attack on pretty much anything anyway. And I can't exactly make sense of the math in my head, but I do remember seeing a graph on Reddit where someone crunched the numbers and the results showed that an Exacting Strike build was on top for fighters iirc. Its not a very fun pick thematically though.

Adding to Improved Knockdown: Improved Knockdown applies the critical success effect of a Trip, you don't actually use Trip, so you absolutely ignore all requisites of Trip so, RAW, and this is well known, you can trip enemies of any size, without any extra feats. A tiny Sprite fighter can insta trip a gargantuan dragon if it hits with Knockdown modified with Improved Knockdown.

I made a Hardy Boyz inspired fighter with Sudden Leap and Felling Strike as the bread and butter Then some stuff to support the build like catfall, combat climber, quick climb and cloud jump Think of basically diving off of a high place doing a Swanton Bomb with this fighter i had in mind Or running up a wall and do Whisper in the Wind I also had weapon improviser dedication for the hardcore part of the Hardy Boyz using anything as a weapon

A crucial point I think needs saying is to not by into the Pick hype too hard. They are excellent early game but the two-handed greatpick is outperformed by other options at high levels because Fatal doesn't add more dice past the first while Deadly does. The single hand options are closer, as the only competition can't keep up because of the Pick typing so unless you are a DEX fighter/martial Pick is pretty decent. That said, any higher damage die weapon outperforms for sustained damage against any foe you can consistently hit but not crit. So while picks are indeed great, they aren't the end all be all and are hype mostly because they are very frontloaded.

14:24 Composite Bows add 1/2 Strength to damage.

@Nonat1s

3 жыл бұрын

lol, my fighter had a 10 strength, so I just used a normal shortbow.

Just stumbled across your channel, this is fucking awesome

I just realized, the "doesn't count towards your multiple attack penalty" clause in Quick Reversal is 100% useless - since you're already at second MAP and the one strike that _does_ count takes it to full.

@Nonat1s Great video, always love to hear your insight of various feats. I don't think you went over Parting Shot, did I miss it?

YEAH, LET'S GO!

Paizo's devs were people who were called boring for playing fighter and made them the most powerful and versatile class to spit on those guys lol

Probably missed this when reading it, but Triple Shot REQUIRES you to take an additional action to make that third attack. JS

Interesting. I'm currently trying to build a new character, goblin fighter, after my current one was killed recently, and this video shows up magically out of nowhere?

At 22:48 I jumped off my chair! What a jumpscare.

Still weird to me that double slice doesn't require slashing/piercing. I'm just imagining someone flipping a hammer around and nicking someone with the peen.

@megavore97

3 жыл бұрын

Broke: Double Slice Bespoke: Double Bash

@JTMC93

3 жыл бұрын

Made even funnier in that Valeros uses it with a Shield Boss as his second attack alongside his longsword.

@willswanson1840

3 жыл бұрын

@@megavore97 Binary Bonk

@MightySchoop

3 жыл бұрын

Which is totally badass, even if he has to suffer a -2 on the shield boss.

I think Certain Strike is one of the greatest feats in the game. If you make a build based around certain strike, desperate finisher, and agile grace, you can have pretty crazy average damage per round (at level 20 vs AC 45, >200 DPR by my calculation not using any AP content and >245 if you allow AP content). Also, I think you may be underestimating Savage Critical and Weapon Supremacy. Each of them replaces a property rune (Keen and Speed runes), and effectively allows you to have 1d6 damaging property runes in their place, which also significantly increases your damage.

@austinobst8989

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, certain strike works well with forceful weapons too.

Fighter is the airforce of the classes. They get all the nice stuff.

First, this is an interesting video. Secondly, making the disarm action require only a standard success would make it as broken as you said Debilitating strike is. Ie: you make the attack, you get that simple success, the person loses their weapon. They must then spend an action to pick it up, thus losing an action probably every round, and maybe even 2 actions as you probably have to take a move action to get in the same square as your weapon in order to pick it up. Or does it drop in your square? I'm not sure on that one. Anyways, these videos are increasing my interest in the game again.

I can imagine having two fighters in a party, one with Improved Knockdown and the other with Debilitating Shot. Boss fights become even more of a joke. People can just walk away when the boss comes close to waste all of his 3 actions. Like you said both attacks are strong by themselves, but even stronger combined.

31:00 the enemy only takes the -2 penalty on THEIR turn with the whole option to spend an action to adjust their grip thing if you have the Swashbuckler feat Disarming Flair, otherwise the penalty ends at the start of their next turn and would only effect reactions they made before that. Don't know if that was a rules change after the video was made, but wanted to point it out.

ggs my guy

Fantastic video, but I have a rule clarification/opinion question. How do effects like bravery interact with things like dirge of doom? Bravery makes it so you're essentially immune to fear 1. Dirge creates an aura of fear 1, and states that your fear can't be reduced below 1, while in the aura. So would the fighter be frightened or not?

@Nonat1s

3 жыл бұрын

That's a fascinating interaction. I would actually rule in favor of the Dirge of Doom. The fighter always technically gets affected by "Frightened 1" first and THEN reduces the value with Bravery. Since Dirge of Doom causes the effect and strictly says you "Cannot reduce" the condition, then I don't think Bravery works.

You missed that two handed assault gives you the benefit of the two handed trait as well ad the circumstance bonus to damage depending on the number of damage die. That bastard sword doesn't just get flat damage, its dice go to d12s too

double slice only imposes a -2 penalty on the second strike if THAT weapon doesn't have the agile trait. so lets say you are wielding a rapier and and a shortsword or dagger (classic combo) and attack first with the rapier and then with a shortsword you'd suffer no penalty. (at least if i understand the rules correctly, i'm just reading the text, never played the game before (that's why i'm here))

I think you misread positioning assault. It’s move the opponent 5 feet , and the new location must be within your reach.

What about the hilarious feat from Fists of the Ruby Phoenix, "Sever Space"?

@kamencraftbrasil4367

3 жыл бұрын

One of the devs even made a meme drawing parallels between Valeros and Okuyasu from Jojo just because of that feat, it is hilarious!

32:56 I don't see a problem with revealing strike, so what if the bird-like creature have one of my normal javelins or daggers ? I stil have my flaming sword of destruction with me ? Or just use returning weapon

Brutish Shove is amazing ! it forces enemies to waste an action to move back in position AND gives your reach fighter an AoO ! it also combos with Intimidating Strike since it lowers AC !

Moonlight maps.... sounds interesting

I'm curious: What would be the most optimal way to build a Fighter, in terms of both effectiveness and in DPS? Completely negating the MAP seems to be the biggest hurdle here. I'm asking as someone who's recently built a L1 Orc (Blood-Scarred sub-ancestry) Fighter, initially looking to specialize in 2-handed great weapon fighting axes because of the Greataxe. That said, the Orc Necksplitter looks fun too. So do Orc Knuckledusters. I'd be curious to see what kind of optimization routes there are out there. (Deep dives are great and all, don't get me wrong, but build videos are where it's at in my opinion.)

Will there ever be a video pn Dual class? Because I just don't know character themes that aren't enough with just archetypes.

Any tips on which feats should I be looking at if I'm building a STR based Fighter Martial Artist?