Fun thing I thought of regarding Frenzy: if your front man goes down, he's now effectively great cover for your other goats that are concealed. He's a valid target til he finally goes down, so you can stack up behind him until that happens.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Oh, that's very true!

the wording on cleaver furry having "Each enemy operative" makes it seem like the effect can only happen once per model

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Yup, got that bit wrong!

Maybe the scalpers snagged all the Gallowfall boxes to prevent us from having to face this team. Unexpected heroes.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

The heroes we....deserve? 🤔😅

@chaosjimthevoidlord3762

Жыл бұрын

@@CanYouRollaCrit not the hero’s we wanted, but the hero’s we needed. or rather the hero’s we’re stuck with.

There are loads of plasma pistols in the gun lockers from the Shadowvaults narrative terrain. So in *narrative* play, Ironhorn Plasma is not a plot hole. 😂

Hmmm I am thinking that the easier way to change their ability would be "Each time a READY friendly Fellgor Ravager operative without frenzy..." It would allow them to get one last "hurrah" with their dude, but ones that have already moved will just fall over when incapped normally. Thats how i initially read it, but Rules as written right now, i agree are pretty insane.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Even that would have been crazy but sorta fine. At least there would be counterplay if it only worked on Ready operatives

@glenmurie

Жыл бұрын

Should have been something totally different. Like if takes damage gets some themed bonus like move closer to enemy. I have no idea how a ‘it can’t die’ rule got through play test

@XDfunnyguy

Жыл бұрын

​@@glenmurieif it bleeds, we can kill it. Unless it has a frenzy token, then we have to punch it in the face twice or wait for it to fall over.

I might be misstaken but the wording on cleaver flurry seems fairly safe, it sais "each enemy operative" and not each time this passes through engagement range, so you move through people, and then when youre done moving you check who has he been in contact with and give them D3+1 mortals🤔 still a fairly insane couple of rules on this team, intrested in how it plays out and how they tune it😅

"Severly damaged Necron Overlord probing beastplebman after intence fight": An*lizing frenzy protocol.... Bzzt... Bzzt... Collecting data...Concluzion: Bzzt... ressurection protocol update needrd. Rewriting code in progress. Estimated time: two years. Recommended tactics: stay on shelf and avoid combat.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Crazy how Beastmen rez better than Necrons

I think frenzy would be cool if it immediately just made them do a charge or fight action where they roll one dice from their combat profile as a last hit and then drop

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

That would have been much better 🥲

@Mr281560

Жыл бұрын

So much better. I'm terrified to deal with these dudes on the board as is.

@cerberez1

Жыл бұрын

@@Mr281560 i had my first game against them on tuesday. they feel completely unfair, even on an open board. way too easy for them to get to charge range without getting shot. they just have too many tools. And they turn off most seek&destroy tac ops. and frenzied goats still count for controlling objectives.

Can we hope for another “James Workshop” from GW next week? They did it for votann

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

One can only hope 🥲

Thanks for the video, great breakdown!

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

No worries, glad you liked it (:

Appreciate this review! Great coverage brother

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Thanks bro! Glad you liked it (:

Thank you Jon for bringing attention to this. I am very excited for the models in this box and this looks like how my gaming group is going to enter "Into the Dark." However, it does seem like we are going to have some house rules to limit the brokenness.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, that's probably the best way to go (:

How it made it past play is bonkers. Who are playing these teams

Fluxbray dances the dance of death to Deathknells daring solo!

With the disappointment of missing out on Gallowfall, I am going to kitbash my own Fellgor team using Tzangoors. I am actually really excited to do that.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Oh nice, that sounds great! Can't wait to see!

@WePaintMinis

Жыл бұрын

@@CanYouRollaCrit I am concerned of how broken they look, but was always going for them as a team when announced. I think they will look cool.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Can always still play them as long as you acknowledge the power, plus they'll be nerfed eventually (hopefully)

Maybe some way to balance frenzy is to allow the opponent to score tac-ops that rely on incapacitated operatives, it's crazy how they can negate so many tac ops by contesting points or not dying.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

That would help but you'd need mass FAQ's on it

Great video and insights, as always. You know a team is beyond broken, when you don't even need to play them to see their insane power. I want to win my matches, but also it must be a fun game for my opponent too amd feel that won't hapoen if playing with this kt innit's actual state.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

I've already played them. It's even worse on the table 😬🫠

@JimmyK53

Жыл бұрын

We need them to win every tournament for a few weeks and then gw will nerf them into balance

It's been so long since we had an OP team from the original rules!

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

It was nice tho...

To my understanding there's nothing stopping slamming these two units in with their silly movement: Fellgor Fluxbray (D3+1 mortals to operatives along a boosted normal move) Fellgor Vandal (D3+1 mortals within a radius, probably after charging) Dealing a minimum 4 mortals to a group of enemies, then as Frenzy does not stop them using their abilities, doing it again the next turn for a minimum total 8 mortals. (Then there's the other 8 units of the team doing their thing, like the Toxhorn throwing grenades that can deal 3 mortals on 5+ rolls or the Shamen handing out the Hot special rule for even more mortals.) Frenzy has issues to begin with but combined with several abilities to hand out mortal wounds, with no way of stopping those abilities, it seems even worse than you've considered in this video.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Oh wow, I didn't even think of that! Damn that's even crazier than I thought 🤣😭

hi dude, i guess you have enough content to make a "tierlist" video about all the broken stuffs of this KT. That's the funiest video you brought to me, you were like "WTF" on every single point, you have fully understand the tragedy and made me understand it. The main issue (from my experience from other games) is that thoose kind sof stuffs can easily warp and entire meta-game, i guess we are on the verge of a huge meta shift in order to counter this team, hope i'm wrong. Anyway thx for your insight as usual and now we are warned, next months would be, well, interesting to see... XD cheers.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

I might haha. Deffo in a full GOAT meta now tho 🥲

@Kurgern

Жыл бұрын

@@CanYouRollaCrit a polarized meta with only goats and their counter (if any), will be fun ! lol

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

They counter themselves 🤣😭

@Kurgern

Жыл бұрын

@@CanYouRollaCrit brilliant! thats true lol, since only the best CC team can handle them, and they are that team, its worst than i though... full goats meta as you said indeed.

@Kurgern

Жыл бұрын

@@CanYouRollaCrit i might be wrong but tell me if kasrkins with their ability to pump up a dice result into a crit will have a chance ? i mean with their range and fire power aren't they able to frenzy them all quickly then just charge into and gun-butt a crit with some elite points ? sorry for the spam but i'm very depressed to and i'm already ploting to find a way to f**k them all lol

Frenzy is absolutely insane. I put together something similar as a team-wide ability for my homebrew Beast Snagga Kill Team (who faced a similar problem with a lack of shooting), and kept running into all the same mechanical/tactical/balance issues as the Only In Death Does Duty End Stratagem from the Compendium Space Marines. It got so bad that I gave up on implementing that version entirely and just gave them all a baked-in Medic instead, with the Painboss having the ability to remove Toughen Up tokens. Tough as Squig-Hide: Other than the effects of Battle Scars, this operative cannot be injured. In addition, each time this operative would be incapacitated, if it does not have a Toughen Up token, it can toughen up instead. The operative is not incapacitated and has 1 wound remaining, and if it was a shooting attack, any remaining attack dice are discarded. Each time this operative toughens up, it immediately gains a Toughen Up token. Seeing the Fellgor Ravagers reach out with both hands to grab a rules potato I dropped from a FAN PROJECT for being too hot is... certainly a feeling.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Exactly! I have lots of questions about how this team made it through testing 🤣

@cras9450

Жыл бұрын

@@CanYouRollaCrit Even if, against all my expectations, the raw power of the ability is actually somehow balanced... Surely the sheer number of "wait, so how does this work again" moments it would have provoked in testing would be cause for concern? Or the feelsbad of triggering a Tac Op or cool ability (like the Shrivetalon) based on incapacitating an enemy, then being told "no, we don't do that here, hang around and wait for a bit I guess". I figured the weird incapacitated-but-not-dead status of Only In Death was the reason we hadn't seen any similar effects since Octarius, but if anything this is much worse - Only In Death at least still counts as an incapacitation, and they're removed at the end of ANY friendly activation, not just their own, so you're placed in a use-it-or-lose-it situation where they can't just hang around being an invulnerable nuisance until you're forced to activate them. There are loads of ways this type of effect can avoid being a massive pain, and the Ravagers just... don't do any of them. Oh, well. At least my Cut-skin has another use; Savage Assault means he can charge a wounded Beastman, kill it, and all attack dice are discarded - but since it wasn't "incapacitated" he can fight again for free and kill it with another Critical Hit before it strikes back (Lethal 5+ and Balanced gives solid odds).

@timleach3366

Жыл бұрын

@@cras9450 Aye, it's pretty wild. Another similar stratagem is Vet Guard's 'In Death, Atonement'. It's really strong, but you only get to do it once per turn and it has some serious caveats (can't melee, have to activate next, can't do it on an already activated operative, and it costs you a CP). Even so, it's really powerful, challenging, and can be somewhat frustrating to play against. Beastmen just getting a better version for free on EVERYONE seems like a crazy choice.

Hey! Would the slaanesh stat ploy allowing them to strike twice work against these guys in Frenzy mode? As they are technically injured? If so it could be a great counter

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

It could be but...you'll be charging Fellgor for that and spending CP, coming closer to them. It's an option but not reliable enough imo

I came here to see what you thought of Frenzy & I was not disappointed.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Restrained John 🤣

Great video as always though!

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Thanks, glad you liked it (:

Wait so a frenzied Fellgor can't be stopped by shooting it?! That will probably change after the first tournement they show up in.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Nope, they just...laugh off all the shooting damage? It's pretty crazy

@samjsnz

Жыл бұрын

Why couldn’t they just double up and say the one crit or two normal hits from ranged attacks too, still represents them frenzied as you have to take them out twice, but making them just invincible to shooting seems weird

@ObsceneSuperMatt

Жыл бұрын

@@samjsnz I'm sure that will be the conclusion after they get played.

You're right. They're just dumb and stupid. When I look at them I try to think about how I'd beat them, turns out they're just immune to that. The very best matchups into them are ones which have a *chance* to beat them.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Yeah it's crazy. Their main counter is...themselves

With a lot of their rules and synergy requiring them to be within close distance of each other I'm assuming blast, splash, reap etc. will be good against them? Really think Frenzy should add any MW's as a stipulation in which it could be killed to make them more balanced?

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Those are good but then can shield themselves with super conceal 🥲

I'm only looking at this now because I was playing KT today ( typically, Kommandos). But what the hell? This team is insane. How did this get through testing? Did they even do testing?

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Yuppp, they're pretty insane 😬

@Yannic1982

Жыл бұрын

Only thing I can think of that playtesting for Gallowfall suffered under playtesting for 10th.

I dont understand what curse weapon does. Does the hot special rule give the weapon anything other then suffer mortal wounds when rolling 1s?

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Hot is 3 MW for every 1 retained. Curse adds +1MW to that for each 1 retained

@FireDemon11

Жыл бұрын

NVM I was thinking this was to buff friendly operatives, but wasn't seeing what the benefit was. I'm just dumb

To balance frenzy, I think it should work too on shooting attack (1 crit or 2 normal left after defense dice are rolled) to take them down

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

I think just letting a crit go through on shooting would be fine

@samjsnz

Жыл бұрын

I think that’s a great suggestion, at least that gives an option to shooting. And seems thematic this chaos empowered abhuman taking tons of damage getting shot to pieces

Hmmm, so if I read the frenzy correctly, a guardsman can't kill a a beastman with a plasma gun shot, but can kill it if he hits it really hard with his rifle butt?

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Yes, exactly. Gun butt > plasma shot

Do you have the narrative rules for them I was wondering where those were

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Yup, they're after equipment in the book (:

@Orihutcherson

Жыл бұрын

@@CanYouRollaCrit thanks

Frenzy is interesting because I swear that in the rules it says that models with 0 wounds can’t deal damage in melee right??? So frenzy is useless for melee killing?

@JohnB-ts5wm

Жыл бұрын

If you’re incapacitated you can’t fight in melee since combat ends immediately. They are NOT incapacitated.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Yeah that rule doesn't exist so they keep fighting 🥲

I love how fluffy this team is, I think it could be great with a few nerfs

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Probably more than a few nerfs but I agree aha

@anarcho-angron6297

Жыл бұрын

@@CanYouRollaCrit yeah maybe that was a bad choice of words, they need some major nerfs lol

what happens if a fellgor dies in its activation? does he fully dies after that activation? so is this the correct sequence? Fellgor activated > Fights > Dies > gets Frenzy Token > Activation ends > Fellgor dies fully

@CanYouRollaCrit

7 ай бұрын

Yup!

Any chance of you covering Deadlzone from Mantic games? A rival small scale skirmish game might be a breath of fresh air.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Unlikely I'm afraid

RE: Fluxbray Minimum movement increment is 1", but your point still stands. You could do this multiple (

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Yeah. I think it doesn't work that way but we need an FAQ haha

There’s only one operative that can fight twice, correct? One option is to not kill them, but slow them with bodies via multi charges and not fight. If it wasn’t for brutal, the arbites shield guys might’ve suddenly hand an opponent they could counter (blocking out with shields and arresting mechanic)

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Yeah only the big axe guy fights twice. Arbites almost had a chance 🥲

@jinofthesheep

Жыл бұрын

@@CanYouRollaCrit the torment grenade injures them right? And warpaint doesn’t stop their WS being effected when injured?

@jinofthesheep

Жыл бұрын

I can also see Corsair alpha strikes with plasma grenade being effective, plus the rapid strike strat ploy guarantees a crit in combat. Another team that’ll do well is khorne legionary, with their inbuilt crit in combat ability. 10W does feel a bit too much, but I don’t think they’re totally without counter

I was at the whw tournament you won with these. Did you do that just to show gw how broken they are?😅

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Yup, was hoping the devs would be there 🤣😭

Thanks for your honest review. What a horrible strong team!!!! thanks for your suggestions

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

No worries, always aim to be honest even if it's aimed at my own detriment haha

Played vs them for the first time with my Kommandos. Literally 0 chance. Even with WAAGH!, you have to dedicate so much into a single kill, it is mental.

@CanYouRollaCrit

10 ай бұрын

Sounds rough, should be easier with the new balance changes!

Teams like kommandos with tactical ploys like Krump Em but your spending CP to put them down

Maybe proxy 8 bound as these guys? Could give the correct level of power

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

8 bound are kinda on too big a base

they could make it that if you have a frenzy un it ready, you must activate it before the others

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

That wouldn't help too much. I think if you could only frenzy while ready, then it would be kinda okay

is this arbites time to shine? Possibly army yourself with 4x subductors plus your proctor with assault shield and dominator maul. After you trigger frenzy with your 3+ shotguns, lock them in combat with the shields, parry away their hits with your shields, and possibly kill them that way.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

If only you weren't capped to 4 shields 🥲

Idk but if I were to change how frenzy works it would be, when thier hp drops half they get frenzy, they are not injured, they get plus 1 black movement and +1 to hit on thier melee characteristics that's bout it, cause frenzy says like i am mad so i am charging you head on like a bull!

I just played these guys in a small tournament today and ended up drawing after turn 2, but I should have won. Frenzy is a bad rule.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

I guess they stopped you capping objectives etc?

@Pandapeep

Жыл бұрын

@@CanYouRollaCrit They prevent me from scoring protect assets like 4 times

Not sure if Cleaver Flurry can be used the way you describe - it's "Each enemy operative that it moces within engagement range of", not "each time you come within engagement range of an enemy operative". Subtle but important difference!

@burp114

Жыл бұрын

Damn, just saw another comment pointing out the same thing, didn't look hard enough lol my bad!

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

No worries, it's easy to miss aha

So uhhh. When's the next balance dataslate. Frenzy needs the nerfbat

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

June at the earliest 🥲

Cleaver Flurry is not that broken - I cannot see through your head, but from what you have read, it is each operative that was run-by, not each time operative was run-by.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

The issue is the wording is not clear and as it doesn't say you can't do it against the same operative multiple times, you can just zigzag someone tell they die until GW FaQ it

@krzysztofdrzewiecki5618

Жыл бұрын

@@CanYouRollaCrit but no matter how many times you will zigzag it is still same opperative - and it is "or each enemy opperative you cross with action. To be honest I don't see how it could be made into "each time".

@leonidasking7502

Жыл бұрын

Yeah it says each operative not each time. Pretty clear to me

As someone who played against them as a full Custodes tea, I can indeed confirm they are a little busted. Out of my four operatives 3 got killed in 1v1 encounters by turn 2 just because of frenzy.

@Guffenater

Жыл бұрын

Meant to put *team* not * tea*

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Custodes tea is also very powerful Yeah Frenzy is dumb in its current form

@Guffenater

Жыл бұрын

@@CanYouRollaCrit Lol

@gunslinger7g7

Жыл бұрын

As the one who played against you with ravagers, I can definitely say they are busted 😂

@Guffenater

Жыл бұрын

@@gunslinger7g7 I will avenge my fallen brothers, maybe not today or tomorrow, but one day once the mighty emperor blesses us with the nerf that is destined to come.

Pre Nerf-Custodes 2.0- I hope they will deal with it asap

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Same, just so shocking to see a team like this on launch

@crustman5982

Жыл бұрын

@@CanYouRollaCrit you should do a pre nerf custodes rules vs them as a video lol

So can death guard win the battle of attrition?

@CanYouRollaCrit

7 ай бұрын

I don't think so imo unless their FNP rolls are hot

You definitely can’t use the Cleaver Furry multiple times on one opponent, it says ”each opponent”, not like ”each time this model enters engagement range”.

I’m not sure to understand why it would be worst (for the opponent) than “in death, atonement” of the veterans. Ok it’s CP free and not limited at once per turn but they can’t do mission action. At the end of his activation it’s out any way. I feel I missed something to understand why it is that broken.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

You can't fight with death atonement. You also don't last until that operative next activates with death attonement. You exist forever until you meet the Frenzy death requirements

I have some say in rules for my LGS for Kill Team, and after your review, I'm thinking that for the time being, the Ravager team not be allowed, and I say that as someone who is going to have them. Frenzy is such a poorly designed mechanic from a balance standpoint. It entirely gums up even Elite teams. Was trying to work out a way to deal with them, like Khorne Legionaries, and even then, you either need to try Frenzy them in shooting, get into melee and kill them their with the free crit, but even then it's not a guarantee. They have too many operatives for what they do, in addition to too many wounds and are going to be a nightmare, especially for shooting based teams. Just imagine playing pathfinders against them.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

That's fair. Frenzy pushes them over the edge with their crazy good statline too

I could use beast snaggaz for these. Lol same beasty theme 😊

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

GW accidentally made the best Orky team lol

@DoomStarRequiem

Жыл бұрын

I look forward to your analysis on their performance after some tournaments.. I'm not a competitive player but your insights into the teams and the meta are very nice to watch.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Ah thanks, should have another meta update soon (:

I’d like to play a few games with them first before rendering how OP they are…. But on that note Frenzy does seem broken. Making your opponent have to effectively kill 20 operatives is kinda absurd. If frenzy does need a nerf I think making Frenzy tokens a resource similar to Blooded tokens or Kasrkin Elite points would be a good place to start? Start with a pool of tokens or generate tokens each turn or if you do something like incapacitating an enemy? Anything to limit the number of times you can go into frenzy and forcing the pilot to tactically choose when/if to pop frenzy seems fair

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

I've played a few games with Beastmen and it's...rough. Issue with Frenzy working all the time means you have to kill them all twice, way too tough. I'd love if they made it a resource like you said

@jeffreymonsell659

Жыл бұрын

It does seem OP, but you don't have to kill them twice. They'll die at the end of their activation regardless. Also, since when is the goal killing the entirety of the other team?

@nickcraven9061

Жыл бұрын

@@jeffreymonsell659 I misunderstood having to kill ‘em twice. But I agree; the goal isn’t to kill the entire team.. however, the idea of killing a beastman, him staying on the board controlling an objective or being a threat until next turn is pretty daunting

@jeffreymonsell659

Жыл бұрын

@@nickcraven9061 I definitely agree it is daunting, they're almost certainly going to have to nerf it.

Wonder if they made this crazy team to guarantee their boxes get scooped up...

@jeancouscous

Жыл бұрын

No that's always been a wrong assumption. they sell their stuff regardless of the rules, even if the models are bad ruleswise (for example the box with hierotek/karskin before their buffs, dark reapers for eldar, and so on...)

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, just an accident. They rarely make the new stuff the best as above stated

@PaniKontrol

Жыл бұрын

My point I guess is that there wasn't much hype for the box. I don't think many people were stoked about the beastmen and we already have votann models. The other boxes, like kasrkin have the advantage people were looking for those updated models for a long time, even if the teams sucked out of the box. Just thinking out loud.

Theyre gonna shake things up for sure... If anyone can buy them that is...

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

The ultimate way to balance a team 🙃

Wasn't there a rule that you cannot take an equipment more than once?

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Only grenades

the guys read way too strong, the ploys in combination with warpaint and their passive abilities let them just run through every other team in melee. Frenzy more or less ignores long-range combat and no one stands up to you in close combat. Stupid.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Yup. Mad how this team mad it out like this. Warpaint covering their only weakness just sucks too

Yeah they seem too strong, wonder how gw will react, looking at their previous balance changes I feel like it will take a while for them to be nerfed into a more balanced state, like maybe they nerf their wounds first and then a couple months later do another nerf etc. Wonder if they made it so that if they got killed by a crit frenzy wouldn't trigger if that would help make them not so bad against ranged teams and melee teams at the same time, or maybe put a limit to how many times frenzy can trigger a turning point. Lots of things they could try but I imagine the competitive scene will be rough for the next few months possibly.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

They need an emergency nerf imo. The game is gonna be a mess if they are left how they are for 2 months. Insane team sigh

@Hazari13

Жыл бұрын

@@CanYouRollaCrit Yeah I do agree for sure hopefully they add some way for ranged teams to kill them or it'll be real rough playing objectives against them. A frenzy nerf before anything else should be hopefully first. knowing gw though I cant say I expect too fast a response though they did nerf Votann real fast in 40k so maybe there's hope. By the time I get the kill team though theyll probably be nerfed enough so that I dont feel bad taking them.

So they're better at staying alive without triggering incapacitate rules than the Hierotek, and they're better in melee than the Hive Fleet, seems like both of my teams have been blown the fuck out

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Beastmen know how to get the best deals it seems

Wow yah that's pretty bonkers. I feel like Legionaires may not be too bad into them?

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Legionary do okay until the Beastmen overwhelm them 😅

@drich.5984

Жыл бұрын

@@CanYouRollaCrit Father why do you forsake us *cries in Fulgrim

@FlameThrowerDuck

Жыл бұрын

Until every single guy has hot on their gun and has to kill at least 2 guys each against a team that you have to essentially kill 20 guys…

Am I really the only person here that doesn't think frenzy is broken? I think in conjunction with all their other rules (and war paint) that yes the team is OP. But why would you waste a shooting attack against a frenzied operative anyway, just move out of charge distance from them and let them die after their next activiation? It's just forces people to adapt their playstyle, which is what the game should be all about!

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

But how do you keep out of range unless you just concede the points and lose? The beastmen will get into your lines and objectives and then frenzy there, still contesting and controlling objectives while stopping seek amd destroy etc

Frenzy could have been “fight on death” and all would have been fine…

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

That would have been much better

@Tulkash01

Жыл бұрын

@@CanYouRollaCrit apparently doing things the simple way is not the GW way…

Interesting, im not quite sure why you expected the beastman to have worse stats than kommandos in melee when they are both a 10 operative kill team, but the fellgors have only 6in shooting. Hotfix for most people should be to just turn frenzy off, and they should be balanced. Hopefully gw just reworks the ability completely, to change the condition to while wounded ignore movement and weapon skill modifiers for melee and cant be on conceal. Should balance them out nicely without having to rewrite the entire book

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Kommandos are bulkier due to being Orks, just such a weird thing for Beastmen. That change to Frenzy wouldn't do much to solve the problems with it?

Noooo, I love Beastmen for 40k, why'd they have to make them so shitty! They could have just modeled them after a mix of orks and Tzaangors and then a bit more Chaotic spice. 😭 I just really hope they listen to your advice because it'd be so nice to have a balanced version of this.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Their 40k aesthetic has grown on me a lot Yeah, I want these guys to be balance not busted *sigh*

A newbie to WH here but I figured I'll still leave my thoughts on this, Just looking at frenzy and how its worded, by how I interprete it, it could be beaten by: - Crit killing them bypasses the initial frenzy even though it activates (during hit). - A hit is sustained after frenzy is triggered (basically they have 0hp at that point). Useful for characters able to attack twice or if you have a second character do it. Grenades and blast abilities come to mind to use as a last choice at the end of a turning point to prevent their next activation after which they will auto die (the more clumped together in the flock of demongoats the better). If they have yet to activate for the turn and you've already incapacitated them, triggering frenzy then they would die automatically at the end of their turn). If they cannot reach, use some useful ability or attack you, its as if they were dead. - Frenzy causes -1 to attack dice and -2 to movement due to injured. Count your distance well and they might not be able to get to you, but if they do at least they are slighly debuffed. - Go on overwatch with your early activations if you have no clear initial shot. That way you could soften them up, leaving some ranged guys in the back of an open area could probably work well too. Abuse their need to get up into your face. Try keep the objectives in line of sight. If they cannot snatch the victory points to score higher than you, then they need to go after you. Their frenzied ones cannot do mission stuff neither, so focus fire preferably on those closest to the points, even if a more tempting target is further back. Let them come to you and force them to push into your advantageous positions where several if not all of your ranged units have line of sight to them and to oneanother, cover each other backs. All things considered, I think these guys are strong, probably a real problem for close combat teams who cannot range snipe with a majority of their guys. Also these guys seem to have a big advantage in into the dark due to limited line of sight/ distance ratio. Thanks for the video as I was curious what stats etc these guys had. As for frenzy, I think it just needs some clarifications as it is written in a manner which could confuse players.

@MrHoneuma

Жыл бұрын

-Combat ends when the ravager gets sent into frenzy, so the first point doesn't work. -When frenzied they can't be incapacitated by shooting, only melee, outside of specific operatives and teams, you are going to be hard pressed to kill a ravager in 1 turn with an operative. The grenade idea does not work at all because that counts as shooting. The only correct thing here is that if you can incap them before they go is that they die at the end of their activation. -Warpaint invalidates the movement loss from injury. -Outside of elite teams, getting to overwatch is not that common unless you've been losing units, and again, they can't be incapacitated with shooting. They are likely going to be approaching with conceal orders and cover, so unless you've got someone on a vantage point, you're going to be hard pressed to send them into frenzy before they can activate, and they have their psyker to turn that off for you. In into the dark, that entire strategy goes out the window anyways. Additionally them being unable to perform mission actions does not stop them from controlling an objective through apl. -I think you're wrong and don't have much experience playing with this take. They're too strong. They're too hard to remove from the board and will likely kill you for trying. The fact that they also invalidate so many teams just by existing is also a large problem. Hand of the Archon effectively loses it's ability against them, shooting teams like Pathfinders are going to get charged and eviscerated, anyone without 3 APL operatives is going to struggle immensely at removing them.

@dezmobil2803

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the answer, my bad about the equipment removing the movement penalty from injured. Forgot that. And yeah I am a newbie, 0 matches under my belt :p. I cannot see the part where it says that ranged doesn't work on them though. Unless you mean that the individual soldier's remaining attack dice gets discarded upon triggering frenzy. It still wouldn't take away a second attack from for example a space marine using a ploy to fire twice or a charge+melee followup to a shooting by an APL 3 character right?

I don't think your interpretation of Cleaver Flurry is correct. It doesn't say "each time you move within engagement range of an enemy operative", it says "Each enemy operative that you moved within engagement range of". A single operative can only fulfil that condition once, so you can only do D3+1 wounds to a model max per turn. It's a subtle difference in language but it is unambiguous.

completely agreed, I haven't seen a team as brokenly op as this, beyond anything until now.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Launch Pathfinders are impressed 🤣

I loved the video (That's a lie, I just started it but I'm sure I will love it!)

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Aha, hope you did!

@JimmyK53

Жыл бұрын

@CanYouRollaCrit of course I did. Honestly this team reminds me a lot of talons and how I ran them for KTO. Turning off crits is MASSIVE and sisters essentially have 11 wounds so a bunch of bodies with 10 wounds, and 2 lives each is crushing... on itd this team is so good is crushes talons.

Shaman alone will wreck elite teams. By turn 3 half the team has gets hot on ranged weapons. That was a nice heavy bolter you had there Mister Legionary. A shame you tried using malicious volley and fried yourself.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Kinda? I think you drop him vs elites but I'm not sure

@crustman5982

Жыл бұрын

How does the rule you reroll ones interact with that?

Well that’s annoying. I really liked the idea of a beast man team too. 😢

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Just play them. As long as you acknowledge the state they're in, it's fine

basically melee only, auto pistols are trash. they need frenzy. otherwise they just die before doing anything. broken? yeah. necessary for them to function as they should? mostly yes. could be toned down a bit.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Hopefully we get some kind of a tweak to Frenzy so we can work from there

@chaosjimthevoidlord3762

Жыл бұрын

@@CanYouRollaCrit hopefully it becomes more balanced and not as overtly broken, especially since it’s one kill team box i was planning on splitting with a friend, as the chaos guy i was leaning towards the beastmen, and i’d feel bad if i just got an overtly broken team just because i like collecting a certain faction.

Testers just want to win tournaments too, so they let this slide ...consp. theory or fact ?

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Theory, a lot of them don't even play at tournies 🥲

Issue is probably due to all hands on deck for 40k 10e, and interns with barely any table top experience being in charge of Kill Tram.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Nah 40k and Kill Team are different devs

@glenmurie

Жыл бұрын

@@CanYouRollaCrit Sure, but I'll bet the Kill Team staff were at least responsible for playtesting bespoke Kill Teams in 10e and 'spare staff' from their team might be temporarily assigned to the 40K team for the past several months.

Unless there is a nerf. Expect most tables to be this trash at Nova open.

@Orihutcherson

Жыл бұрын

So depressed bro… someone I met was like “I’m actually gonna buy them despite the fact I don’t like their fluff/ aesthetic purely for gameplay purposes” yeah ok

@Orihutcherson

Жыл бұрын

I at least want them so bad because they LOOK COOL but I don’t want to scare opponents away with a crazy team… they need a balanced nerf asap

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

They should (hopefully) be nerfed by then as the next Balance Dataslate is in June but they need nerfing before that 😬

"don't blame players for buying this team for being so strong" ... No-one that has bought this team (currently) did so because it was so powerful! You could barely have started one of these reviews before the box sold out!!

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

They're just too strong. The broke the sales tiers

Can You Roll a Crit? Can you buy a Gallowfall box set? Ahhhh. No.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Sad times for all ):

I feel like I have a seperate opinion. They're great in combat, but they have to be bunched up for a lot of their strats... any team with flamethrower or AoE items like frag or air strikes can damage a lot of units. yes you'll have to have a "sacrifical lamb" to absorb the charge. but such is the price.

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

They don't have the be bunched up that much. Most of them are range blue. They can also charge after killing to bounce off that lamb

Ahhh another melee centered killteam better than kommandos... Stay calm everyone! We got both bombsquig AND the grot to play now... Zog off..

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

I think Kommandos are in a great spot atm Beastmen have just stolen their identity somehow 🥲

it is so cool to play only compendium teams with friends. GW are insanely bad at balancing games

@CanYouRollaCrit

Жыл бұрын

Generally GW have been quite good. Beastmen are just a big blip