You know in retrospect, I think Honda's biggest problem for those first 3 years was McLaren themselves...

@dinofarabi

7 ай бұрын

Definitely, especially with how Honda themselves have praised Red Bull for being less demanding and willing to comply to their demands, unlike McLaren who were unwilling to give up their 'size zero' concept. Although It is funny that the Honda-RB engine is alot more compact than what they had in McLaren and their size-zero plans

@the5gen

6 ай бұрын

21 of 22 race victories this season while poor Zak twiddling thumbs.

@srinitaaigaura

6 ай бұрын

@@dinofarabi Sometimes trying too hard ignoring the present is the very thing that stops you from getting what you want. This was a good examplem

A nice topic would be about reliability - or lack of. When an engine breaks, what's happening in there? The block just blows up? The valves are ingested into the cylinders? Oil spills everywhere?

@Colevid19

8 ай бұрын

They disintegrate. If you could only fathom the energy those blocks need to contain. Just think of an engine rotating at 18000rpm. The piston is traveling at 40m/sec and has to come to a complete stop and travel at same speed in opposite directions. Giving the piston an equivalent mass of about 2.3 tonnes. It’s hard to truly fathom if you have a good understanding of mass and inertia

@Sturmovik1946

8 ай бұрын

@@Colevid19 these engines don't rev to 18k anymore, they are limited to 15k and none of them even use that limit, they usually stay below 12k.

@Colevid19

8 ай бұрын

@@Sturmovik1946 I’m not referring to these engines . I was using the option on the scale of engines to drive my point of the forces behind the combustion cycle and the parts involved. I was not referring to modern f1 engines. Even your typical road car engine has forces going on within it that are hard to fathom

@turbo_brian

8 ай бұрын

An f1 engine is no different than any other engine when it comes to reliability. Any component can fail. The difference is all of the components in an f1 engine are designed at nauseam to perform at their absolute peak and no more. "A lighter connecting rod is always better. Unless the engine fails. Then a slightly heavier one would have been better"

@Sturmovik1946

8 ай бұрын

@@turbo_brian >An f1 engine is no different than any other engine when it comes to reliability. I'd love to see an F1 engine go 200k miles

Seems like Honda used its experience in aviation in their F1 engine. Super cool!

@McDonnellDouglasMD--

8 ай бұрын

Trust me they did and it worked brilliantly. Pretty sure this turbo design came in in 2019 somewhere think may I could be wrong

Honda went all-out and brought their 2022 engine design forward a year early - they made great strides with packaging especially with the cylinder heads and the spacing between inlet and outlet valvetrain. It's now a far cry from burning up 2-3 MGU-H units every weekend.

I want to congrats to Honda, with this year in F1 with their engine, thank you, 2023 was an epic year for Redbull with your Honda engine.

What you're looking at on the front of the compressor housing is an inlet guide vane arrangement. It's pretty standard across f1 you just don't see them often. It's a radial compressor wheel with a converging section between the inlet of the radial compressor and the inlet guide vanes. These vanes increase efficiency by introducing a counter spin to the airflow before hitting the compressor. This allows for tuning of the angle of incident with the incoming airflow over different operating conditions aka turbo speeds and airflows.

If i remember correctly, at the end of the Mclaren era (2017) Honda had some help from Honda jet departement. Since then, the turbo and the ICE became more competitive. (They had nasty harmonic vibration in 2017 with the ICE).

Honda should get more credit for winning the manufacturer championship for Red Bull and "RBPT"

@hocngo313

8 ай бұрын

Agree!! The Honda and HRC logo sits just above the rear tyres. So you can never see it on TV cos the tyre blocks it when it drives past

@gaycha6589

7 ай бұрын

Yes. Still the truth will put when RBR powertrain stands alone from 2026 regs. Ouch. 😂

2023 was a remarkable season - Max, Honda and Red Bull were the most dominant combination in F1 history. Honda's reliability and power were a big part of this remarkable record.

5.2.6 Pressure charging may only be effected by the use of a sole single stage compressor with a single Inlet linked to a sole single stage exhaust turbine by a shaft assembly parallel to the engine crankshaft and inboard of Y=25. 5.10.1 With the exception of devices needed for control of pressure charging systems, variable geometry exhaust systems are not permitted. No form of variable geometry turbine (VGT) or variable nozzle turbine (VNT) or any device to adjust the gas throat section at the inlet to the turbine wheel is permitted. 5.10.1 seems to only apply to "turbine" so we can assume that's a variable compressor inlet at the front? Does the slimming of the compressor housing imply its a single stage axial flow compressor that opens up into the torus since it does not have 2 stages? The slim neck of the radial section seems to be too small for a radial compressor relative to the competitors huge compressor wheels.

@shi01

8 ай бұрын

No, it's a radial compressor with an adjustable stator section in front. An axial compressor can not achieve the necessary pressure with a single stage.

@turbo_brian

8 ай бұрын

F1 turbo compressors are likely to be between 100 and 120mm in diameter. Most will be just under 110mm if I had to guess. This appears to be a larger trim compressor, which is a bit surprising as it would imply lower compressor efficiency, but it is possible they are leveraging a complex diffuser to recoup some of those losses while still maintaining decent choke flow. They certainly are doing something with their diffuser, at a minimum fixed vanes, as there's no reason to have those fasteners there. The diffuser section is very long, which again is good for efficiency. Since they have the electric motor f1 turbochargers tend to be optimised for peak efficiency over having a wide operating range as they can use the electric motor to make sure they are operating in a window that is ideal.

@conntan4010

6 ай бұрын

Do you know what HP the Engine (PU)power units in the paddock are? Hondarb, Mercedes Ferrari... ​

Honda still are my favorite engine builders.

@McDonnellDouglasMD--

8 ай бұрын

Me to

@anurag15271

7 ай бұрын

Yeah cant believe the same company makes a 100cc bike lawnmower and freaking f1 engine

Thanks Bsport for sharing your in-depth knowledge and another great vid. I thing tho in some section the video could be paused longer and more visual indications could be used as these systems are so compact, details are hard to see, if not full fluent with current f1 engine arch

nice. detailed. straight to the point.

Interesting and detailed as always

Where can I watch the interview from Suzuka when you have the Honda engineer talking about the engine I looked all over the net and I can’t find it

Seems like they're using a swirl throttle Infront of the compressor to control throttling it with greater efficiency? Or is there another purpose

@321-Gone

8 ай бұрын

I could be wrong but if it's an axial compressor than that's what a turbo jet or turbo fan uses. On airplanes. But with variable static vanes behind the spinning part.

@AR_434

8 ай бұрын

These are adjustable stator blades to control the inflow swirl and widen the operating window of the compressor.

@turbo_brian

8 ай бұрын

​@@AR_434nearly correct. In the case of f1 they're looking for peak efficiency, which is what the inlet guide vanes help with. The fact that they are adjustable lets them add efficiency everywhere, but I think if they didn't add to the peak efficiency they'd be a lot less likely to be on the turbo. They don't however widen the compressor map or move the surge line, if anything they make the choke line more vertical and reduce map width at high pressure ratios.

@AR_434

8 ай бұрын

@@turbo_brian Adding adjustable guiding vanes is always for widening the operational window. Without it the turbocharger would have slightly more peak efficiency because the the vanes produce losses. In the next ASME Journal of Engineering for Gas Turbines and Power you can read my paper on how the reduction of inflow swirl at highly throttled operating points widens the operating window and moves the surge line to lower mass flow rates. We achieved this by lessening the angular momentum of the backflow, but the benefit of reduced inflow swirl stays the same.

@thethirdman225

8 ай бұрын

@@321-Gone It looks like the inlet guide vanes are ahead of the spinning compressor parts. What I can’t see is whether there is a stage of axial flow fan blades and a row of stator vanes between the vanes and the centrifugal stage. EDIT Apparently multiple stages are not allowed.

Can you share the link to the full press release. I can't find it.

Honda took the turbo part(turbines) to the Honda jet engine dept. and they worked their magic on the turbine blades...fyi.

@gigizack

5 ай бұрын

especially on the shaft that pass trough the mgu-h

These PUs are mind bending

Inlet guide vanes 🤯

@johns.1898

8 ай бұрын

There's likely a single axial stage before the radial compressor, so cool

@tturi2

8 ай бұрын

looks like an axial 1st stage compressor, more compression stages is more efficient and reduces entropy

@lmb5529bml

8 ай бұрын

​@@johns.1898That's an Inlet Guide Vane, multiple stages are prohibited

@lmb5529bml

8 ай бұрын

​@@tturi2That's an Inlet Guide Vane, multiple stages are prohibited.

@thethirdman225

8 ай бұрын

@@lmb5529bml Thanks for clearing that up. I had already asked in a different thread.

What are the purple coverplates above the exhaust flanges?

@Moli571

8 ай бұрын

do you refere to the inverted triangles above the exhaust primaries? If that is the case I was going to say EGT sensors but that makes no sense

@turbo_brian

8 ай бұрын

All motorsport display engines get all their ports blocked off to prevent contamination (both FOD and other teams stealing ideas). I could see them being egt or pressure sensor ports. They likely control their turbo speed based on engine back pressure and temperature.

Bring the the V12

The v tech kicking in be like

Honda should return as a constructor and engine manufacturer/ supplier. And then expand the grid for them, haha

@wiegraf9009

8 ай бұрын

Well maybe if Stroll decides to sell AM they could take over that team, but Honda's board seems way too fickle to be a serious constructor

@cafe88racer53

8 ай бұрын

prob fail unless they somehow get everything perfect

@thethirdman225

8 ай бұрын

They lost money out of their last foray into F1. I think they’re unlikely to do it again for a while.

Cool

I thought Tsunoda in Monza this year was a PU failure, but I could be wrong.

@Moli571

8 ай бұрын

wasn't it a hydraulic or trans issue?

@icantdecideahandle

8 ай бұрын

@@Moli571 Could be, I forgot

Not only have Honda engineers evidenced their place amongst the best in F1, but they did it with a minimised team of staff After the board of directors said their not playing anymore. I dont understand how the useless board of directors was'nt booted out and replaced by competant engineering staffs who could probably done the management in their spare time. I would love the world to see a list of sacked board members.

@turbo_brian

8 ай бұрын

I mean, no company would ever boot out their board of directors and let engineers run the show, regardless of what snafu takes place. That's pretty understandable as engineers usually make pretty horrible managers. They'll never release the product because it's not perfect hahaha. I'm an engineer so I'm allowed to say it.

Is that not the throttle inlet?

@turbo_brian

8 ай бұрын

No it's an inlet guide vane. They would have a separate throttle body somewhere else in the assembly, most likely after the charge air cooler.

Turbo unit could probably go to the moon and back

this is why you don't pull out

@cafe88racer53

8 ай бұрын

they got scared from covid sales decline

@McDonnellDouglasMD--

8 ай бұрын

Unfortunately enough different CEOs, but I’m glad that they’re staying in F1 now and being a partner with Aston Martin

@turbo_brian

8 ай бұрын

You missed the joke

@McDonnellDouglasMD--

8 ай бұрын

@@turbo_brian rip

Would be awesome if mclaren go back to Honda but sense they are on the up rise it’s probably better to stick with what you finally made working ? Just would love to see mclaren Honda win again

Honda will be making a comeback to F1 in 2026!

Red Bull rents the goods. Ford pays for that rental and gets to display logo. USA a okay

ok

Honda are now staying in F1 after Red Bull partnership has finished and will be powering Aston Martin from 2026 onwards.

I feel nostalgic for the days when Honda, along with Ferrari, Ford, Mercedes and Renault filled the air with the ungodly screams of naturally aspirated V12, V10 and V8 ENGINES. It's impossible to get very excited about this forced march to some bullsh*t "earth-friendly" enviro-dictatorship.

Good 👍 HONDA HRC Formula 1 honda ❤ 1 🖕