Check out the Merch Store: growling-sidewinder.creator-spring.com So it seems like the F-22 is obviously a very competent opponent for the Viper but assuming you can pull the F22 to the ground you might be able to do some special things with the Viper now, hope you guys enjoyed the video thank you for watching and I'll see you in the next one.

@Nicksanchez1122

2 жыл бұрын

Aim 54 vs r37 BVR

@ohioifitwasaperson3258

2 жыл бұрын

A10 thunderbolt II vs f22 Raptor

@NationChosenByGod

2 жыл бұрын

@Nphekt Of course, most of us know already. F-22 capabilities are still classified.

@SupernovaSpence

2 жыл бұрын

Frick yes! I literally asked for this on the release of your day vs f14 update video

@charlesdubras1644

2 жыл бұрын

If you are so skilled as a pilot and enjoy flying why not join the military to fly fighters?

This really goes to show how important training and experience is for fighter pilots, and really for any warfighter.

@roijoi6963

2 жыл бұрын

The missiles in a Fox-2 would most likely be decisive. A Viper with Python missiles would probably easily defeat most everything with less capable missiles - maybe even with the AIM-9x. Maybe, but I suspect the 9x is much more capable than is being publicly acknowledged. At any rate, most Fox-2s have high PK frontal shots coming into a merge, so that loopy stuff isn't typically going to be needed.

@Pandamonium0120

2 жыл бұрын

@@roijoi6963 at

Dear friends, lets remind ourselves, before saying "oh, with the F-16 I can take on the F-22 now." that its the lord GS flying the falcon...

@xXKRYRXx

2 жыл бұрын

You called the f16 falcon lmao what a nerd

@arry5432

2 жыл бұрын

@@xXKRYRXx I thought both the fighting falcon and viper are useable?

@kenchen704

2 жыл бұрын

@@arry5432 fighting falcon is official Lockheed Martin / General Dynamics designation, while AF pilots call it Viper. It will always be fighting falcon for me.

@raffayniazi7970

2 жыл бұрын

@@kenchen704 people here In Pakistan call it the falcon so that’s what I say

@dsdy1205

Жыл бұрын

Let's also keep in mind the F22 flight model here is a best guess since real performance parameters for that thing are not readily available on the internet

To those who are claiming the Viper is now over-performing. Keep in mind, the Raptor is most likely underperforming. The true capabilities of the F-22 are still classified, to the point that real Raptor pilots aren't allowed to use the Raptor to its full potential when training with allied countries. The viper is just doing what the viper can do. The Raptor capabilities can't be increased in DCS due to nobody really knowing its full capabilities. Just food for thought. Awesome video as always.

@xchalibur77

2 жыл бұрын

I am not so sure of F-22 superiority. They intend to retire them in about 10 years. If it was so capable it woudn't be changed with the F-15ex.

@brettt777

2 жыл бұрын

@@xchalibur77 Where do you get your intel from? I've heard they plan on having Raptors active for the next couple decades at least. And Rambler88 is absolutely correct. I have heard from many sources that they do NOT show the full capabilities of the Raptor for this very reason.

@CrotchRocket78

2 жыл бұрын

@@xchalibur77 they are retiring damaged raptors from the hurricane

@CrotchRocket78

Жыл бұрын

@Eternal Peace no it really isnt, the f15 is superior to f16, the F22 in out turns them both. Even the typhoon out turns the f16.

@Tain950

Жыл бұрын

Do other countries have a fighter Jet that is superior to the F-22 in a dogfight.

To everyone saying the F16 is now better than an F22, keep in mind GS is a very skilled pilot and no shade to the F22 pilot but had GS flown both the F22 would win 93/100 times. And with Fox 2's the F22 would win 100% of the time.

@jasonslone5307

2 жыл бұрын

ehh f16 has helmet locking unlike the f22... might not be fair if the f16 gets 60ish more degrees of locking with fox2's than the f22

@donutperson9027

2 жыл бұрын

The whole point of the f-22 is to make sure it doesn't get in dogfights, it wants to stay hidden until it decides to blow something out of the air.

@danwilliams5867

2 жыл бұрын

This goes back to Col John Boyd. Machines don't win fights, men do. GS broke the OODA loop on the F22 pilot. Stealth is nice, unless you are bounced from behind and have to dogfight. You better know how

@jasonslone5307

2 жыл бұрын

Donut Person that is why it is an absolutely crazy machine... can’t shoot what you can’t see.

@AbsoluteyAmerican

2 жыл бұрын

I agree. I am not sure why all his opponents fight on his terms. If I see him pulling to the deck for a rate fight, I am pulling up and then diving for energy, especially with the raptor and a guns only fight. Don’t fight their fight, fight yours and force them to fight to your strength.

A lot of people who claim the Viper is now overperforming need to remember this: the Viper is *THE* standard for dogfighting among Western fighters in the 4th Gen. There's a reason why it was such a huge success as an export fighter (26 countries outside of the US either purchased or leased them). Meanwhile the Eagle has only been exported to 6 countries, the Hornet to 7, and the Mirage 2000 to 3. Yes, we have newer hotness around like the Gripen, the Rafale, and the Typhoon, but the Viper is the benchmark they were/are compared to for dogfighting and multi-mission capability.

@GrowlingSidewinder

2 жыл бұрын

very well said actually.

@Michael-ji3gw

2 жыл бұрын

F-16 was exported way more because it was way cheaper, period, end of story. Also it was multi role before the F-15 was.

@RaderizDorret

2 жыл бұрын

@@GrowlingSidewinder Thanks. Another way to look at it is the Viper came out when the MiG-23 was the USSR's new hotness for dogfighting (though it's more interceptor than dogfighter in how it flies). The Soviets built the MiG-29 *specifically* to kill the Viper just as the Su-27 was designed *specifically* to kill the Eagle and Tomcat. Heck, even Japan used the Viper as their baseline for a new fighter in the 90s (the F-2 "Viper Zero") because the design is just that good. Speaking of which, an F-2 mod could be quite interesting. Won't have the same acceleration characteristics, but that larger wing could give it better one-circle ability and not really do too much to hamper it in the rate fight.

@RaderizDorret

2 жыл бұрын

@@Michael-ji3gw Pricetag alone is only one factor. The cost-effectiveness is the key. There *are* better Air Superiority fighters than the Viper within its generation with the F-15 being an obvious example. But it does better overall per dollar spent compared to its contemporaries.

@Michael-ji3gw

2 жыл бұрын

@@RaderizDorret agreed. If the f16 sucked, it would have sold.

these super low surface skimming circles are super fun to watch, they feel like youre about to knock off your wing tips

@GrowlingSidewinder

2 жыл бұрын

feels like that for me aswell.

Your aerial gunnery is getting better and better. Nice to see you take the higher deflection snap shots. You only miss the shots you don't take. Have a great weekend buddy!

@syko2889

2 жыл бұрын

tell that to the F-22 pilot making his plane lighter by dumping all that ammunition across the Syrian countryside lmaooo

@diegoruiz7600

2 жыл бұрын

Nice comment

@debbiestimac5175

2 жыл бұрын

@@diegoruiz7600 Thanks Diego! Enjoy your Sunday!

@wurfyy

2 жыл бұрын

That's not how the saying goes. You miss all the shots you don't take. That doesn't mean you won't also miss some of the shots you do take.

@debbiestimac5175

2 жыл бұрын

@@wurfyy Being pedantic a bit, aren't we?

Ever since the new adjustments onto the F-16 were made I have been wanting to see this fight. Wonderful thank you for making this video.

It's amazing what happens when you make the slightest mistake against a well-piloted Raptor. But I can see that the upgrades have made the Viper a dangerous opponent for anything. Fox 2 fight next!

lmfao, that first engagement. I was all ready to post "All you f-ckers wish you flew the Viper" (DG obvs) and then GS has to say "Not like this ...." 6:39 - Yes !

Man, I was flinching away from my screen when the cannon shells were whipping past you in Round 4! What a fight!

All depends on the pilot. I’ve been a f-16 crew chief for the past 15 years. Back when Tyndall afb got there first f-22s we were there with 1980 block 25 f-16s and we got air to air kills lol they were after the f-22s were down to only guns but we got some kills.

@tastywaves6043

2 жыл бұрын

Those early F16s were hot rods and can capitalize on mistakes other fighters cannot.

@debbiestimac5175

2 жыл бұрын

@@tastywaves6043 Fighter Mafia, that gave us the F-15 and F-16 : "Not a pound for air to ground." They hated the multi-role abomination that the F-4 had been turned into.

@joshburke4083

2 жыл бұрын

@@debbiestimac5175 completely different today though aye, probably because I think the Fa18 really showed the effectiveness of a multirole fighter. Think it really influenced the multirole F16 and F15E/EX variants today.

@debbiestimac5175

2 жыл бұрын

@@joshburke4083 Those are all replacements of sort, for the A-7 Corsair II. We needed something to fulfill that role and instead of a dedicated strike aircraft like the Thud, they adapted existing platforms, which has nothing to do with their air superiority origins. I can put mud tires on a Corvette but it does not mean it was ever designed to go off road, its simply a variation for specific need of a specific customer.

@terryritter7065

2 жыл бұрын

Also to your point, any new aircraft in the VR arena, especially in guns mode, is going to take a while to learn to fly effectively unless it is way beyond the capabilities of the advisory aircraft. The lean BLK25s were fast and very familiar to the pilots. I've heard similar stories from seasoned Eagle pilots upon initial encounters with the F-22. Soon, the Raptor pilots learned the advantages and disadvantages of their aircraft and the Eagle guys and gals could only prey on the nugget Raptor pilots that could be goaded into a particular situation that gave them a 50/50 chance. But, that's all the Eagle had.

Stop breaking my Vipers, damnit!

@GrowlingSidewinder

2 жыл бұрын

lold

I shot the wing off a Mig-29 last night in the Viper when he transitioned to the one-circle. He cut across my HUD the same way and my shots sliced off his wing. Most opponents don’t correctly go over the top of the roller and end up crossing their opponent’s nose at least once. Being in a roller definitely isn’t a death sentence, odds are very good that at the beginning of the roller, the player who is at the top will get at least one shot off against an opponent who is at the bottom. As always, the initial energy states of the aircraft when entering the one circle fight also has a huge impact on the outcome. For example, if you hadn’t cashed it in, but kept 400 kn, it may have been possible to go vertical beyond his nose authority and range and them ditch out to the rate fight, something you have done in other videos :). Can’t be too eager for that kill when facing a very capable opponent.

@debbiestimac5175

2 жыл бұрын

Synopsis : What can your enemy do that you can't and what can you do that he cannot. It's why flight envelopes are a thing and mathematics so important. Put him in the coffin corner and you will always win. Unless you open the lid for him and let him out, so to speak.

Can you imagine actually pulling 8-9g for that long on some of those turns? Crazy that there are real pilots out there that train to handle it

Absolutely fantastic! I know I asked for this but this warmed my heart for the f16. This also makes the flight model on the f22 far more believable since I'm sure we've all heard the stories of how the f18 and f16s could initially beat the f22's in combat when they were initially testing. But within months, the pages had turned as pilots learned how to use the f22. The DCS f22 has never seen a fiercer foe.

What's I like about all of your videos is how calm you are in these situations and your constant application of knowledge. Essentially opposite of Top Gun (movie) advice -- "think!" Most, if not everything, in DCS is quite easy if you use the right tool and tactics for the job. A hard to hit target becomes a routine eventuality. A certain death situation becomes very survivable.

F22 will outrate everything but still also dominate in the 1C. I'd like to see the new Viper vs the Typhoon, another outstanding rate fighter

Excellent fights man, that last one was awesome! Love those kinds of kills when you get slow at the top of a climb and swing the nose around.

The fight we have been waiting for love how the f-16 can put up more of a fight vs the f-22 great vid keep it up 👍

Wow, round 4 was a masterclass in how to extricate yourself out of a low speed fight and regaining the advantage. Well done.

3:08 All I could think was "If it bleeds, we can kill it"

@SoldierW0lfy

2 жыл бұрын

same xD

I have never been this early, can't wait to see how this battle will pan out

Round 4 nose authority in a slow loop was an eye opener. Great flying there!

Having almost a thousand hours in both aircraft (real world), I would work on getting the Viper slow (if I am in the Raptor). Then I would take the Raptor into the vertical to exploit that exclusive space. Rate game plan is always a matter of patience…no matter what aircraft, if you don’t have it then you make mistakes.

You probably didnt notice the F-16's wings as you were in the 2 circle...they were flexed like 3 feet up from the G-Loading.

Just came across this channel, seems like I've been missing out on great content! Love watching these battles

Crazy to think the original design and size of the f16 was smaller than what we have now. As agile and maneuverable the viper is now, just imagine if it was its original size as designed.

@ryugakishatu6372

2 жыл бұрын

It’d be nigh-unbeatable in rate fights

@plushie946

Жыл бұрын

@@ryugakishatu6372 definitely comes with downsides though

@mmmdawe

Жыл бұрын

even smaller? it's pretty smol now, looks hilarious when it stands near f-15

I remember not long after the F-22 was first declared IOC (Initial Operational Capability), maybe a year or two afterward there was a video circulating around showing a T-38 (trainer version of F-5) killing an F-22 in a mock dogfight. This was around 2006 or so right in the early days of KZread.

Pilot skill is always part of the equation. No matter how good the planes are, mistakes can lead to defeat. Any war plane can beat any other war plane if the disparity between the pilot's training and skill is wide enough.

Have to admire the way you accept defeat, you make it look fun! Love your videos!

You nearly had him in the first round. Finally an aircraft that can take on the F-22. Great fight.

@MrFarnanonical

2 жыл бұрын

Well.. its guns only without missiles or pylons. Give the raptor some 9Xs and it'll be over in one turn, even without a helmet cueing system.

@mcdonnelldouglasf-4ephanto607

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrFarnanonical Naaah F-16 still can kill the raptor

@MrFarnanonical

2 жыл бұрын

@@mcdonnelldouglasf-4ephanto607 that's very doubtful it would happen in a fox 2 fight. If the viper separates the way he does in this video hes going to end up eating a sidewinder. He's forced into jamming the WEZ which is the kind of fight the Raptor wants.

@wurfyy

2 жыл бұрын

@@mcdonnelldouglasf-4ephanto607 In a Fox-2 fight the best the Viper can reliably do is force a mutual kill by going 2-circle - which is something just about anything could do. The F-22 more than makes up for its lack of HMCS in a 1c.

It's just amazing to watch the different ability of tow dangerous jet by Growling Sidewinder giving you more excited to show

This was like watching Morpheus fight Neo for the first time.

@GrowlingSidewinder

2 жыл бұрын

He is starting to believe.

All I kept thinking of with this fight was Fat Bastard and Mini Me. F-22: “COME HERE! IM GONNA EAT YA!” F-16: “eeeee!”

@davidcannon3070

2 жыл бұрын

Lol, thats really kinda funny!

3:34 If you listen really closely you can hear the F-22 say "I didn't appreciate that."

Sees the title "F-22 Raptor Vs F-16C Viper Dogfight" ... yeah don't push your luck ... watches the video till the end ... ok I'm impressed XD awesome video, awesome work!

AWESOME! I LOVED IT. REALLY DIG the name of your channel too.

Am on the glide path of an ANG refueler wing, but was in the grocery store when something went over that caused even uncurious to look up. Was in my backyard 90 minutes later when the roar of a beast caught my ear, and watched an F-16 on afterburner climb away with his wing bout 5-800 meters in trail farther out. They were probably over the next county North before the growl became inaudible. Nary a day goes by when dog baby and I fail to see a T-38 or two or three but those things sound like go carts compared to that F-16 top fueler.

I remember when I played falcon 4.0. if I remember correctly the F-16's optional turning rate speed was 375 knots.

Showing what the F-16 can really do, great job.

The last round was one of the best I've ever seen in this channel, brutal

You sir are a patient magician! I expected 4-0 F22 here....The first kill might have had some luck, but that last kill was just beautiful flying.

You keep inspiring me to play DCS and not give up.

Hey this is all and good for play. Really enjoy your videos. You are a skilled DCS pilot and your videos are some of my favorite. If a real F-22 was about to engage an F-16 I don’t think the Falcon would see it coming. Like clubbing baby seals

Hi GS, I find fighting the Viper with the M 2000, that I can still defeat it in a one circle fight, and also find I can lure the Viper drivers more easily into a overshoot in a fast rate turn because of the better energy retention of the Viper. Good Video,, would like to fight you someday. Keep up the good work.

Absolutely love this channel and it's content!! So awesome and entertaining..

That last fight I wanted you to win so bad. It was very entertaining watching this my god!!! F16 is now finally getting the respect it deserves , so good

I love how the wings flex at 2:37.

Really went like "aight imma head out" at 12:45

GREAT ROUND 4 !!! Knew you had him at the end. PATIENCE....and SURVIVE!!!

These are great simulations! But, wouldn’t it be great that we can test the Raptor versus what could’ve been the Black Widow, or the Grey Ghost with the latest mods available??

Enjoy your videos growling!😊👍

Thanks for this video,i really wanted to see the new f 16 vs f 22 and ,i enjoed so much

Whelp, now to patiently wait for the Felon vs Viper video! But I have to say, I would have never known that the Viper was this capable. I wonder how dominant it could be if it could be upgraded to the 4.5 or even 5th generation.

@joshuareed6894

2 жыл бұрын

The F-16 was built for the knife fight.

@charlesselrachski34

Жыл бұрын

can you imagine the air force has so many good plane options, while the navy has trashcan f18s to fly ?

Now if you can get that thrust vectoring F16. Oh doggie that thing can point.

You left on a win. The last one was the most interesting. Cool fight.

Happy to see the Viper buffed a bit--you gotta love that plane.

That last kill was soo good! This was great!

Finally.. The F-16 became a Viper 🖤

With the new thrust of the viper, is it possible to get someone slow in a two circle, and engage the after burner to cause an off set two circle fight? Or would that pose to big a risk at accidently pushing yourself into the gun?

Whenever Growling Sidewinder drops a vid it's like early Christmas

It's really incredible how good the raptor is at both BVR and WVR combat.

F-16C: What are you? F-22A: I’m you, but better.

I was hoping you would make this video!

That last fight was very sweet. GG

Even tho it's a computer simulation of two jet fighters, I wonder if Lockheed-Martin would get a chuckle from watching this dogfight twixt their two steeds, the Viper and Raptor? I'll admit, I was cheering on the Viper !! I always do. BTW.. take away thrust vectoring on the Raptor, and I believe the Viper would be nearly unbeatable!! IMHO. 🇺🇸

The one saving grace when fighting a Raptor with guns is the massive surface area you have to aim for!

I was on the edge of my bloody seat, all 15 minutes!!!

I know someone else already said this but even an underdog fighter jet with a good pilot can be a headache for whoever is in the chalk jet if the latter pilot isnt careful... having said that, ill have to keep that in mind when my turn to have DCS comes in...

When you said "no! not like this!" I lost it hahahaha

I was on the edge of my seat with that first fight holy guac

That was some 1st rate flying! Not many guys could beat an F22 in anything.

Wow...your videos are great. Nice job

Man. I really loved that fight.

I have read on Forums that the sustained turn rate of the F22 is 28 deg per second at 20,000 ft. At between Mach.4 and Mach .5. The veracity of this is always in debate since the actual F22 specs are classified. However, air show observers have seen the F22 perform min rad turns at least 23deg/sec. Still better than the F-16 at 19.5 deg per second. The point being that the F22 should crush the astonishingly good F16 in a rate fight. The “turn speed” or maneuvering speed in civil aeronautics parlance, is the lowest speed at which the maximum structural G force can be achieved without entering an accelerated stall, and in the case of a fighter, sustain. Pulling high Gs bleeds off energy and requires lots of power (thrust) to maintain airspeed at the optimal “Turn speed”. From Vg charts, the F-18 turn speed, is much slower than the F-16s, but at a slightly lesser G. Turn rate at 9 Gs and 350 knots is about the same as 7Gs and 275 knots. However, for a coordinated level turn, the radius of turn is defined as: V ^2 ( in knots) divided by (11.26 x tangent of bank angle). Bank Angle required for level 7.8G turn (is approx 82.6 deg). For 9 G turn is 83.5 deg. The radius of turn will be significantly inside the 9G turn at 350 knots. This means the tighter radius plane will be in a guns “lead” position against a faster aircraft which is pulling higher Gs. This is why the A-10 kills all the fast jets in a turning gun fight. The F-22 with its MASSIVE lift area combined with 70,000 lbs of vectored thrust and greater than 9 G structural limits give it a huge advantage, to be able to pull higher Gs at lower airspeeds without inducing accelerated stall, or having the post stall maneuvering, when used to its fullest, is a huge advantage. That being said, Colonel Boyd knew exactly what he was doing making the F-16 an energy fighter, and it’s still one of the deadliest platforms in the world. However, remember the AirForce admits, the capabilities of the F-22 are so advanced, pilots aren’t allowed to demonstrate them in international red-flag exercises. As the Air Force states, “the F-22 is vastly superior to any known or predicted threat in the foreseeable future.”

@charlesselrachski34

Жыл бұрын

i came to "Growling Sidewinder Combat School" without expecting to do math or think.

this gonna be 🔥🔥🔥

Alright, so, I wanna preface this by saying a couple things 1) I am a total noob when it comes to actually flying against other people. 2) I mean no disrespect or anything and am still trying to learn so I’m probably wrong but I noticed near the end of the first fight when you got into the rolling 1-circle (rolling scissors I think it’s called?) with the F-22, you could have right as you pointed nose down just converted all the altitude into speed and drove back out into the 2-circle instead of going 1-circle with the raptor, no? That was my first reaction to seeing that position anyways. Again, I don’t know either of these aircraft and am trying to learn more about them as far as DCS goes at least. I do love your videos by the way, they are a lot of fun to watch and have taught me quite a bit so thank you for that. And apologies for taking up your time if you read this

@GrowlingSidewinder

2 жыл бұрын

Hi there, Thank you for your support I appreciate it very much. To answer your question...I assume you're talking about the 1 circle roller just before I get killed in the first round. In which case you'd be correct I had ample time to ditch out of the 1 circle dive and influence a 2 circle fight (that exact thing actually happens later in the video) you clearly have a good understanding of some of the concepts of BFM so if you are new at this stuff, you should give yourself a lot of credit. You are doing great, keep it up.

If I were the F-22 pilot, I’d take advantage of that sun glare during the circle and pull in the other direction while it eclipses me.

Great fight. I have noticed in your video's You never seem to black out. Do have the effects turned off or just never pull that hard? I notice other guys that post video's they seem to black out often. Love your channel I have been learning a lot!

@PlasticTonkaToy

2 жыл бұрын

they're disabled for sure

Awesome.. thank you!!

2 of the best fighter jets dogfight eachother. AMAZING

It’s crazy that a 4th gen fighter developed in the late 70’s can go toe-to-toe with the king of the 5th gen fighters.

Love seeing the viper winning fights! Always been my favorite.

Graphics blow me away... I wish I could experience using VR

He got you with guns… just wow. Into the merge… cause that’s something you hear every day with the Raptor.

3:37 Lol that office meme NO PLEASE GOD NO NO N O O O O O

I can see how it might be possible to beat an opponent by tempting him into a maneuver that will cause him to impact the ground. In a guns-only engagement, is "run away" a viable option? What if you're already on the deck?

@growling Sidewinder. Hi Man, great dogfight again! But why is the simulation of the g-force that is applied to the pilot turned of? You guys flew many seconds above 9G ...

Thanks for the clip i like it

What I would LOVE to see is the YF 22 versus the YF 23. Just probably not enough data on the 23 to make it work

Great fight especially the last one.

Luvin' this! Viper with all its fangs :)

Awe man that angle at 3:15 I thought you had him man

Man... sure wish I could afford toys like this. Lucky dawgs! Enjoy it for me.

That was a really good fight.

Imagine if you were someone living in that neighborhood. Quiet morning, drinking a coffee on the front porch. Then all of a sudden, you hear a dogfight doing loops around the entire town. Blowing out every single window in a three block radius because you’re on the burner. “Hey Babe! You know how you said you wanted new windows? Today may be your day! Do your still have that quote from that guy?”

Wow im really impressed with this game now i need to buy it and a gaming computer.

Yep, this is MY Viper :) Thanks ED